What is a DE Worth?

His worth is what the cowboys are willing to pay, not what the Saints think he’s worth. You can talk all you want about his worth, but the closer we get to the draft, the more pressure is building up on the Saints to unload that 7.8mil contract and get something for him in return. The Saints have four players that are in the last year of their contracts and want to sign them to long term deals. Mackenze has already failed to show up for the so called voluntary conditioning program and who is his agent, drew rosenheus(sp). Look for a holdout come training camp.I think if we move down in the draft and pick up a second and or a third we might get howard for our second round pick.I like Abraham, but the cost would be too much to give up to get him.

if dallas could get either one of those guys for a first, DO IT! I dont know about using their fourth though, unless they can trade down 11 for a later 1 and a 2 or 3. if they could, that would be worth it.

I wouldn’t trade for Abraham…too much money plus he’s hurt a lot. I’d give up a second for Howard but only if we trade down and pick up an additional second. The Cowboys have an excellent opportunity to really build this franchise for years to come with the two #1s and the low #2 and I just wouldn’t trade those picks away liberally for a guy that closer to 30 than 25. However, if I had the extra second round pick, I’d trade for Howard.

I’d offer the Saints #42 straight-up, or #20 for their second and Howard. I might be willing to part with some future (second day?) conditional picks based on performance/production, as well. He might play a “more valuable” position than Simon, but Simon was a first round draft pick (Howard was a second rounder), has been to the Pro Bowl (Howard has not) and has missed just two games in his five year career (compared to Howard’s 11 missed games in the last two years).

Abraham is a young, dominant, impact player and one of the best, if not the best, at his position. That said, he’s also wildly inconsistent, injury prone and has questionable character. This stud DE comes with a ton of baggage and twice the price tag of Howard (although to be fair, he’s asking for approx the same amount garanteed). There’s no question Abraham is the more dominant player when healthy. The problem is his can he be counted on? I absolutely LOVE Abraham’s game, but that’s just too steep a price to pay (in terms of cap charge and draft picks) to justify spending on such a potential risk (in terms of both character and health), IMHO.

alot of baggage yes but look who drafted him parcells, so he would know what hes getting with abraham. if they could get 1 of them for a second then i say draft ot, wr with the other top 2 picks, we would be solid then expecially if mike williams or troy williams fall to us

come on guys lay off of the wr stuff. defense is where our top priorities should be. let’s not go back to the teams of the 90’s ..but just 2 yrs ago when the boys went 10-6…they had the #1 d and that awsome offense of qcarter..galloway…hambrick….shall i go on? witten..jones..glenn.. keyshawn..campbell..and bledsoe are a helluva lot better than that offense.lets get back to the dominating defense and see how much that helps the “o”. yea i know..our receivers aren’t the fastest..but upgrades to the “o” line can help a quarterback have a good season.

jerry,

i hafta say, you make a great point.

in 2003, we had carter who wasnt the best but was OKAY, hambrick who really is probably AT BEST a 3rd down back, galloway who was fast but the best either, and many other no name types of guys.

now in ‘05, we’ll have bledsoe, who i believe is a better QB despite being non mobile, we got WITTEN and CAMPBELL and who together make a GREAT TE SET. we have JJ who speaks for himself because he is definitely going to be an all star in this game and hambrick will not. KEY and GLENN who i feel are better than galloway and whoever else was with us

we definitely have a better “O” now than we did in 2003 especially with the addition of JJ.

by getting a great young DE (whether its abraham howard or a draft pick) plus an impact LB tweener type guy and a decent coverage FS……… we are going to have a hell of a year! whos with me…..and jerryw????

the boys are back, and with quite a bit of young talent in JJ, witten (who is ONLY 23!, al johnson, possible rogers/peterman, maybe copper and/or crayton, reshard lee who may get better, henson, my BIG hit williams, newman, and now henry, we have a young team with a lot of talent dont you think? getting our defense all set with a young DE and LB and FS, then next year we can worry about WR (with a 1st rounder), another young D-lineman incase ellis, glover, or ferguson go down, and any other extra position with our 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks (plus extras we might attain)

i think defense should be our first line of attack this draft, make next years priorities on offense, just as long as we can get our defense back together…..someone tell me what ya think

I like your thinking jerryw. I completely agree with you but I find our thinking is in the minority.

derrick, i know it seems like that but we can at least hope that bill is with us….just TRUST IN BILL because he has clearly shown his strengths in the draft

Derrick Johnson OLB Round 1
James/Roth/Pollack/Merriman/Tuck DE Round 1
Roddy White WR Round 2
Michael Munoz OT Round 3
Mitch Meeuwsen FS Round 4
Zac Woodfin OLB Round 5
Whoever you like at RB Round 6
Keith Joesph FB Round 6
Bam Childress WR Round 7

Theres my draft, obviously it has some flaws, since Johnson may not be available at 11, and I also picked Munoz in the 3rd and obviously we don’t currently have a 3rd. What do you think?

I also like Damascus Ware, since its quite likely Johnson will be gone by 11th, we could try to trade down and pick up Ware in the second and grab that 3rd I used for Munoz.

Wow. Why buy tires that have treads already worn out. Let’s build with the picks we have and forget those money grabing teams who want a mint for oldies. I’m hoping Jerry will do the right thing and let Bill run the show on drafts and free agent. But who knows? We have a great chance here to do something really special…please let them choose wisely.

I agree darrell, while I wouldn’t mind having the 10+ sacks that those 2 guys can put up. I would rather have a younger, cheaper less injury prone guy even if he only gets 6-8 sacks this season.

Derrick and Ryan,

Defense wins championships baby!! Glad you are aboard!!

Jerryw too sorry missed you!

Well, I guess we will beat this WR theory down to the ground until draft day….Once again Defense you need but a great WR of potential you cant pass up…One guy at WR can make a diffrence….Just ask the Eagles…Why get a TO if you make it to the conference championship every year….I mean why pay TO all that money and you are always one game away from the big dance……

Yes, lose the Eagles did,….but TO made a diffrence where McNabb choked……So know top WR….. know threat to defenses playing you……Understand Dallas never had scheme’s where we could use just ok players and get far…never had never will…Playmakers make plays for Dallas and avg players gets us top draft picks after a losing season….

Dallasâ€â"¢ biggest need is up front on D. If they draft from their spots, Merriman and Spears would be ideal. But, I am all for trading down and possibly picking up a few more selections, I can see us getting Spears, Tuck/or Pollack, Bullocks/or Browner, and Jerome Mathis. Therefore Dallas would have addressed 4 of their 6 presssing needs. A back up RB can be had later in the draft, so there goes another hole that gets filled. Then you have the second day of the draft, and opportunities in free agency to get a OT, possibly Chris Terry. Spears has the size to play DE in the 3-4 sets, but also could play in 4-3 sets. Tuck or Pollack could play OLB in our 3-4 sets, but they could also play DE in 4-3 sets. But that mix of size and speed gives us nice versatility up front. Then you have Roy, Terrance, and Henry behind them making plays!! The possibilty of having a really good defense is here. Lets go Cowboys!!!

For anyone looking for the opinion of an expert about the value of the trade that could bring Abraham from the Jets to the Cowboys I looked to one that I feel is accurate, Peter King of SI, he says that the Jets should be glad if they receive the offer of the 20th alone for him, because he says that for a player to demand the kind of pay that he demands, needs to be more on the field, and he’s been out of the field 25 games of the 5 years he’s been there.

That’s something that reminds me of Howard, the 2nd rounder doesn’t sound bad, at all, even with a 3rd rounder for next year.

I think we should do what got us to the Super Bowl last time. Do a deal with Minnesota. We trade our 11 for their 18, plus their second round and a later pick.

This takes them out of the running for Abraham and Howard, because they will probably use the pick stupidly on someone like OU’s Clayton.

We then offer the Jets our 18 and something else for Abraham. At our 20 we can still take Merriman. He’ll be there. With A&M we can run a true 4-3 or 3-4 at will. No one in the league will have that ability.

If the Jets won’t do the deal, then we use our 2 or the one from the Vikings to get Howard, and we pick straight up 18 and 20.

howard at r2 seems better than abraham at 20. a b+ pass rusher w a solid history is better than a potetial a+ w some real baggage. remember, when a solid pass rusher is on the other side of the line, ellis will look like a whole new player. those two guys plus glover makes for one hell of a pess rush, and comes alot cheaper than abraham. i believe that even aside from their prices to get them, howard would be a better long term pickup fpr the boys. just a gut thing. do exactly what bigjim said w the 11 pick and get merriman. throw a fs in there somewhere and this is a whole new team. are there any fs’s in late 1 or early 2? not big cbs, but acctual s’s that we can get?

Plus as I said earlier, Abraham is less likely to leave the Jets, he wants more many and may leave if he doesn’t get it, but he is hoping they offer him a good deal, he wants to stay with the Jets.

Howard I don’t know as much about.

Does anyone agree with me? How about we see how the draft unfolds, and let’s see who we get. Then let’s we see what the Jets and N.O. are going to do with Abraham and Howard. There is no rush here. With three choices in the top 42, Dallas is in a good position to make some moves, and own this draft. We all saw what Parcells can do last year, as he traded away our 1st round selection for what is now our franchise back in Julius Jones, a 5th round TE Sean Ryan, and as Rafael Vela says “our gift from Buffalo that we have yet to open” (the 20th overall pick in this year’s draft).

Eric if we wait till after the draft, then what do we have to offer those guys in compensation for either of thier players? Next years picks I assume, or do you have players in mind that you are willing to trade?

Not saying I disagree with you, just want to hear your full thinking on it.

Mike is right……

Abraham is probably our #20 pick and maybe more…….

Howard is what our 2nd round pick perhaps………

After the draft…..unless we traded player we drafted there is nothing but next seasons picks. Those teams are going to want compensation for Abraham or Howard this year.

I think it is going to come down to does Bill see a DE, OLB in this draft with equal talent to Abraham or Howard. If he does he will draft, if he does not he will go for Abraham. Both players have had a few injuries……but that is a risk with any player…..including rookies.

I think a front four with Abraham, Ferguson, Glover and Ellis sure sounds enticing. If we do not have to give up the farm to get it. Who are they going to double team? That sure sounds like a pretty good front four that might keep more than a few offensive line coaches up late at night.

Yeah I would hate to be he opposing Offense Coordinator when they are playing us, if we have a line like that.

But as I was saying earlier, obviously we have no way of knowing for sure how well these draftees will do int he pros. But say we forget about Abraham and Howard, pick up a good pass rushing DE and OLB. Plus with Roys ability to blitz, we would have a huge pass rush, and cap room to spare.

Plus we would have youth, not to say Abraham or Howard are really old, but they aren’t 21-24 anymore. I think we should stick with the youth, since as of now our 3 main D line starters are all over 30. I would rather have young guys in there learning from them for a few years, then we they retire we would hopefully still have some really good mid carrer guys on our line.

mike i agree with ya

youth is always good but only if these youngins can make it in the pros. thats bill’s decision to make, and hopefully he’ll choose accordingly. i mean we could get spears and be GREAT next year or still sour. but i dont know still, im just too excited for the draft and im dying for that saturday in two weeks…I NEED TO SEE OUR TEAM FOR NEXT YEAR…AND I NEED TO SEE SOME WINS!!!

NOT TO MENTION MY BOY JULIUS GAIN AT LEAST 1300 plus yards. that would make me proud. and id like to see witten gain more than 1000 and at least one our WR to gain more than 1000 too. and dont forget another ring to add to our growing collection!!!!! LETS GET GOING ’BOYS!!!!!

Take this scenario. Since I read in ESPN’s insider rumors that we are trying to sign MLB Jamie Sharper. Now I can only think that we might be trying to pick him up so that we could either use him as trade bait with New Orleans or so that we could trade Dat Nguyen (which I hope we keep Dat) to New Orleans. Then we could possibly trade either of the 2 and our 2nd round pick for DE Darren Howard. What I would like to see happen is that we do sign Sharper to trade him to New Orleans along with our 20th pick for New Orleans DE Darren Howard their 2nd round pick and maybe even their third. I think this way we could have plenty of fire power in this draft to fill all of our needs. With our 11th pick we could trade down and still get a tweener DE/OLB (since there are alot of them in this draft) with a later pick or stick with the 11th and get the best available player such as Merriman/Johnson/Rolle/Williams/Williamson/Pollack/Spears/James/Ware with all of these names that I just put there as the best available makes me hope that we trade down and get another 2nd rounder or a 1st for next year. Lets say for fun that with our 11th we draft DE/OLB Merriman since we traded our 20th to New Orleans for Howard then we pick againg in the second (twice) We could draft w/ our #40 pick(saints #2) Brodney Poole or Josh Bullocks. With our 42nd pick we could go for a WR that alot of people seem to be wanting so bad like Mathis or Roddy White (if he were to fall this far). Then with the 3rd rounder we got from the Howard trade we could get a backup RB like JJ Arington or OT Michael Munoz (this guy is the son of the All Pro future Hall of fame OT Anthony Munoz from the Bengals so he has to be a good Football Player) Then we have just about filled our most pressing need. When we play a 4/3
Our Freak Line would be Ellis/Ferguson/Glover/Howard also you could give any of the DE a breather with Merriman
Our Linebackers would be Singleton or Shanle/Nguyen/James or Thorton or Merriman
Our Defensive Backs would be Newman/Henry/Williams/Poole or Bullocks or Hunter
For our 3/4 we could use Glover/Ferguson/Carson or Howard
Our LB’s would be Singleton/Nguyen/Merriman/Thorton or James or Shanle
Our DB’s the same
For our Nickel or passing situations we could go with
Our line Ellis or Ogbogu/Ferguson or Carson/Glover/Howard or Merriman
LB’s Nguyen or Thorton/Singleton or James or Shanle or Merriman
DB’s Newman/Henry/Hunter or any of the other young CB’s we have/Williams/Bullock or Poole
TELL ME WHAT YOU GUYS THINK?

Mike,

All I am saying is, don’t sell the farm for either guy. We are in good position with Parcells in our war room and 3 picks in the top 42. If a great deal comes our way, then go for it. Look the Jets won’t pay Abraham $66 million, so why should we pay that and give up a 1st rounder too? Yeah our D-line would be great, but our hands would be tied behind our backs as far as salary cap moves for the next 3-4 years. Do we want that? Let the Saints come to us, too. Do you think they want to pay him $7 million, just to trade him, or even worse release him next year? The more time goes by the more desperate they become to move him. If we find our way into the 3rd round, then maybe that’s the selection that gets him here. If you ask me a 1st or 2nd, plus the cost of his contract is too much to ask for. I’d rather go get a young pass rusher.

Guys, you know, I think I figured it out… Yes we need a better Defense. But the question is why.. How much of our lack luster season can we put on us missing Woody? some, but not much. I do believe that we have several (at least four postions that need to be addressed) however lets lay the blame square on the shoulders of Mr. Wiley.

Thats right he was worthless, if he gave us a pass rush, we wouldn’t have been burnt on the corners and the other D needs wouldn’t look so desperate.

I myself have been looking at the horrific numbers from last year and hit the panic button, but the truth is we need a DE that can get in the back field. That alone will make the Safety and LB issue a little less drastic.

We had a good not great D last year from a personel stand point, however Mr. Wiley choked and we all felt it.

Now lets talk Draft.

Dallas will trade out of the 11th pick.(stock pile) maybe another first and third??

I look for us to get 4 first day picks.. Plus Darren :-) (

Here is how it will go

LB-Because we truly could use a starter, they will draft here first

S- I like the field here alot of sleepers may go late than most think

WR- I now, what about Johnson and Glenn.. We showed last year if one of them gets hurt, we are done. I don’t see Keyshawn hanging around forever and Glenn has been in for a few years with some injuries. A franchise WR is what Bledsoe needs, heck we all need it (I miss Michael I)

K- Mike Nugent, No mater how you slice it he is a steal, and the first time cundiff misses a 45 yarder to win a game he is going to slammed with (f) bombs, so get Mr. Automatic.

If we did not have Parcells………I would say trade the FARM for Howard and or Abraham.

Fortunately the same guy that picked McGinest, Abraham, Ferguson is calling the shots in a few days. Get us some good ones Bill.

Chadd, the Nugent thing has already been beat to death. I would love to see him as a cowboy, but not at the cost of a high second round pick. Maybe a 3rd rounder if we get one, but again if I had a third rounder and had to choose between Munoz and Nugent, I would still get Munoz. It doesn’t matter how good a kicker you got if you can’t protect the QB to get us anywhere near FG range.

Now if he slips to the 4th, which I doubt, then maybe we should consider it, but still not totally sold. Any round later then that if we pass him up we are the dumbest SoB’s in the world.

But as I said earlier, I am a defenseive guy myself. I like to pin them deep in thier own zone, then when they punt we get the ball on about the 50 yard line or just inside our zone. With that senario, I would love to have Nugents powerful accurate leg on the team because all we would have to do is a get 2 first downs and hed have a shot at making it.

Still we haven’t resigned Cundif, so it would be great to pick up Nugent, but the logistics don’t support it. Now if we do somehow manage to trade down quite a bit and end up with 3-4 picks int he 2nd and 3rd round, and he is available with one of the later ones, then I don’t think picking him up would be a bad idea.

kickers are walk on free agents……….not draft picks………

even Nugent.

I wish the Cowboys would look at trading up rather than down. Whatever it takes to get Mike Williams. I hate USC but this guy is as competitive as they come and a great playmaker. He creates space with his route running ability,size and strength rather than speed. You know Parcells will use him as a run blocker as well and he has the ablility to to run after the catch. Currently, our receiving core is on the verge of being washed up. If we can make teams respect the passing game it will benefit the running game and with Jones’ talent the sky could be the limit. The defense can be upgraded with trades and have proven talent to add on that side of the ball.

john,

true, but we need the “d” NOW. our defense and every one elses wins SB’s. look at NE’s defense and you’ll see my point. they got their and won basically every year with guys like Law, bruschi, mginest, etc.

besides,

a WR can be dealt with in a year or two, there will be PLENTY more guys that are at his skill level and probably even better, be patient and lets get our defense back on track, and the offense a little later. and dont forget witten and then campbell coming back as well, plus julius, and maybe a WR in a later round.

Ryan,

I know we need “d” as well, but I know the defense will also improve if the offense can keep the ball a little longer than 4 and out. New England did not go to and win the superbowl on defense alone. As a matter of fact their defense was rated 9th in the league while their offense was rated 7th overall. They won because they are a balanced team with unselfish players. Just take a look at their defensive roster last year. Remember both starting cornerbacks were injured for most of the season. There are no super standouts. They are just a cohesive and well coached unit. I don’t think any NFL team will win soon with New England’s blueprint because 99.9% of players are selfish and we won’t see a team like New England for some time to come. In the meantime the Cowboys need playmakers that can change a game and I just don’t see that in any of the potential defensive draft picks. Not right away anyways. I see the most talent on the defensive side of the ball on other teams willing to trade those players. However, I believe Williams is a guy who can come in and contribute immediately. He’s hungry to get back to the game. How many college players do you know that would try to give back most of the money he received and try to play another year at the college level? Most would say,“screw it, I’m getting paid regardless (through agents) and my stock probably won’t drop with a good combine next year”. I can’t name one that I truly believe would do the same. I want a playmaker on offense or defense. I just don’t see many (besides at RB, which we already have) in this draft besides Mike Williams.

John,

Williams was deadly in the RED ZONE. He might still be on the board at 11. Braylon Edwards is a player too.

While I do think we need DE, DT, LB and FS help……..and I think Rolle is a guy that would immediately help our D………I think a WR is necessary. While Key and Terry both had good years before injury……..they do not scare anybody. We need a guy that can get deep…….and make big plays……….Williams has the size and athletic ability and makes up for his lack of speed with his jumping over little girly man dbs…….he made a living out of it.

However, Parcells does not have much history of drafting WRs very high. He made some comments about Mathis a 5-10 guy out of Hampton with blazing speed……..so who knows what he does.

If Williams was on the board I would have to consider him. He can make a bad QB look good……..ask Leinhart if he wishes he had Williams back.

Rolle would be a playmaker……at CB or FS.

I think Mike Williams is a top guy. I agree I think this guy wants to get out there and play. There was a photo of him this week, and one of Keyshawn…….both looked identical looking the ball right into their hands…….about to catch it………I think Williams will be an NFL stud. The rules the way they are a guy like Williams almost has an unfair advantage over any corner in the league. Who is can play bump and run on that guy? Not very many corners in this league.

I say forget about Howard and Abraham. With the first pick; I would pick Merriman, or DeMarcus Ware. Then I would trade the 20th pick to a team that might want to move up in the draft. Say like the eagles. Get their 1st and a 3rd for the trade. So with the 2nd 1st rounder. I would get the best OT on the board. With the early 2nd pick. I would get Brodney Poole, or Bullocks at the FS position. Then in the 3rd round. I would hope that Matt Jones was still there. The reason I pick a wr down this low; is because Glenn and Keyshawn will start. That would give the 3rd rounder some time to develop. And with the 4th round. I think someone like Darren Sproles, or the rb from VT might be available. I like them both. But hey if Maurice Clarett is available in the 7th. I would get him. We have drafted worst with the 7th pick before. So why not. Well, this is as far as I am going into my boys mock draft. But I still stay defense first

a Clarett fan……..huh……do not expect Cincinnatti or Cleveland to touch him. He went from Savior in Columbus to Pariah………his own doing really. He had a few injuries……..but one thing is for sure against the best in College he put up big numbers………and was clutch when they needed him.

Do you think he gets his head screwed on as a pro? If he was a walk on FA and did not get drafted I would definitely take him. I think Denny Green likes him and might spend a higher round pick on him say like a 4th round.

Yeah I am a big OSU fan, live right here in Columbus. Would love to see Clarret on the cowboys squad, and I think he could easily get his act together in the pros. The only problem I see, is how he will feel about being second fiddle to JJ. I think hes a guy thats gonna wanna start. But I won’t be complaining if we get him for a late draft pick.

he better change his tune……I do not think he will be a starter anywhere in the NFL next year.

Yeah I don’t see him starting either, and I may be wrong, but he doesn’t seem liek the type to be a backup and like it.

Jon,

Clarett will go in the third round maybe to Chcago

Nugent will fall in the 2nd round, that doesn’t sound like a walk on to me.

from the sound of the daily on cowboys.com the howard deal is dead

mike,

I am surprised to hear an OSU fan talking up Clarett. Yes, he was a stud as they marched to a National Title and undefeated season. Beating what most considered a more talented Miami team. Great game, I kinda figured if OSU could keep it close they would win. Miami had not been challenged all year not really anyway.

Anyway…..Clarett from the moment he stepped on the Campus was about himself. He was on the cover of ESPN magazine with the phrase ONE AND DONE……….he wanted to challenge the NFL and anybody who had authority. As soon as he left campus he started barking out names and accusations against OSU that were investigated……..probably some truth to them……..and OSU somehow avoided trouble. He wins in court then loses………and shows up at the combine a little puffy and very very slow. Now while Emmit Smith proved you do not have to be a burner to be an NFL back……Emmit had a healthy High School and College Career………Clarett played one year at OSU……..it was one and done……..lots of injuries……..and lots of off field problems……..he was the biggest distraction the following season and OSU had a lot of talent left over but lost some of those close games they won the year before.

To me, Clarett has a lot of potential. However his is a little undersized……not weight just overall size for the NFL Back……..and his character makes me think of him as a very later round or FA. Had he played football the last two years………..if we had more evidence of that than perhaps he goes higher………he definitely showed for one year in college that he was as good as any tailback in the game. However, that is still a far cry away from proving it on the NFL stage.

I think he has a lot to prove to the NFL, and I personally think he owes Columbus……Ohio and OSU an apology for his selfish behavior. That is not the type of player you want in the locker room. Not unless he eats a whole lot of HUMBLE pie. OSU did not even allow him to use their facility for pro days. A pretty big smack back his way, and an appropriate one. Clarett could have played two more years. Possibly even helping OSU compete for another title………but he did not. That leaves major questions for anybody taking a risk on the kid. He is a long shot, and when you are at the track the real winners play the averages not the long shots.