To 3-4 to not to 3-4?

Just read on one of the rumor sites that Merriman is dropping on draft charts (enough that he could possibly fall out of the first). In the week leading up to the draft it’s possible it’s more smoke but they’re saying that it’s because his workout sessions aren’t making up for the flaws on film.

i dont think we can go to a 3/4 this year. We can , however, start getting guys who can play both and move that direction in the next couple of years.

Where does Ellis fit within a 3-4? Can he fit at all? We all know we need a pass rushing DE, but let’s not forget Ellis had 9 1/2 sacks last year. That’s not bad, is it?

Now that I bring it up, how do you think Ellis ranks within the league? Average? Better than average?

I’ve been a bit unsure of what value to place on Ellis, but I’ve been working under the assumption that so long as we acquire someone even better than Ellis, it will only make Ellis better. I’ve been viewing a DE as a good value move b/c it has the nice benefit of maximizing Ellis’s worth.

Is this assumption even true considering we may be playing a 3-4?

I have heard that ellis is wondering the same thing about where he fits in. The answer, from everything ive seen is, he doesnt fit a 3/4 at all. Put another pass rusher on the other side of a 4/3 and he’ll be a bad dude. By all accounts though, he is too small for the constant double team of 3/4 and will be a casualty of our going to 3/4 this year i think. I hope we mix it up this year and move slowly toward 3/4 in the next two years.

Of course Bill knows best…but I’ve always thought that although Ellis may not be a pro-bowl DE, he is solid. We can win with him on one side of the line.

Its hard for me to swallow the idea of benching a solid DE that got us 9 sacks last year.

i think we should stay in the 4-3 for now if we go 3-4 ellis needs to be moved or use in 4-3 downs. they have said if we go 3-4 itll be mixed with the 4-3 still. but if we go consistant 3-4 then ship him for someone or draft pick…

I asked about Ellis’ fit long ago in the 3-4, if we do plan to go to the 3-4 why not see what we can get for him. I mean even if NO and the jets don’t want him, maybe we can trade him for someone they do want, then we can trade them that guy for Howard or Abraham.

But heres another hypothetical, and this is a big one. Anybody know how quick ellis is? I know he is one of the quicker DE’s int he leauge, and while hes probablly too big for it, how about Ellis at OLB, move Glover over to an End position, Ferguson in the middle, and another big guy from the draft to rush up the other end position. Obviously thats a lot of moves, and won’t likely ever happen. But it sounds interesting to me at least. I know Glover has played a little on the end, but not so sure how Ellis would adjust to the LB position.

I found this on Ellis when he was coming out of college:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/events/1998/nfldraft/topplayers/25.html

It has him running a 4.88 40. You can bet that after 8 years in the league, he is not running that fast today.

You have some good questions about Glover. Surely, he can play anywhere, anytime….but who knows?

When i heard abiut the 3/4 thing I immediatly thought that glover would be great at de. Ellis, however, I think is just a little too slow for olb. Also, we dont have enough good lb’s to make that move.Why rush it? both formations are effective when the right personell are in the right spots. We have alot more guys who fit 4/3 than 3/4 right now. move slowly towards 3/4, drafting guys who can play both, and use what you have right now. We put the right guy on the other side of the line and we have two great pass rushers for the price of one. Mark my words, if we put another good de out there, ellis will become a great pass rusher immediatly.

if 3-4 seems to be harrd to get this year w/ our players plus the personnel like rafael said, then why exactly do we want to move to it? im just wondering…i mean whats the advantage of it or what is it about the 3-4 that would make us better than the 4-3???

Someone posted a good link to an article on nflblitz.com that describes what personnel fits the 3-4, but it didn’t really go into any detail about the benefits.

It seems like whenever one team starts to dominate, other teams begin to mimic their style. Everyone loves the Patriot’s success. They play a 3-4. I’m sure there are a lot of great arguments about the flexibility of the 3-4, but I agree with Ryan and Ercip, work with the personnel you have.

It would be nice to switch back and forth a bit, but how effective can a team be when it has to switch defensive schemes so drastically during a game or even during a possession?

I don’t care if we play a 3-4, a 4-3, or a 8-3. Just give me a defense that can stop someone. Its ironic that for so many years, the defense was great, but the offense was completely anemic. Now we have a fair offense, but a terrible defense.

I would like to know from you guys and mainly from nfl sources like what IS good size for a DE IN A 3-4 if you look around the nfl all of the DE’s are about in the high 200 range i mean what is their to look for in a 3-4 i think we’re thinking back in the day where they had bigger DE"s now the league is dominated by guys who are smaller so i mean what is your point greg ellis is what 6-6 i mean he’s wide enough i mean come on i know he can take on a few blockers and your not really goin to find to to to many 300 pound DE’s

Yeah but we got the picks to get right back in it this year. i just cannot wait to see what they do. There are alot of de’s and olb’s in the draft who can play in 3/4 or 4/3. Im sure thats what we’ll target with our first picks.

ellis can pass rush a double team but it takes bulk to withstand a doubleteam on almost every down. there are still alot of de’s close to 300 pounds. ellis is like 270 or something. he’s closer to the olb of a 3/4 defense than a de. Who knows though, whats 20 pounds right? Maybe he would do fine. People say dat’s too small too.And those people are stupid. But i still say why go there when we are closer personellwise to an effective 4/3

I think Dallas’ first pick has to be a guy who could play in either scheme. That’s why I’m thinking Rick Gosselin is on the mark and that the guy is Spears. He’s a LE. He’s 307 lbs. He’s a power player. He’s tall with long arms. He’s a stronger, shorter version of Ed Jones. He’s supposed to have flawless technique, which is not surprising, given that he played at the Nick Saban NFL finishing school known as LSU.

The PFW book describes him as a “power end in the Reggie White mold.” He’s not as quick as Reggie, but I can live with that. If they did take him, they could move Ellis to RE, where they wanted him to play last year, before Wiley flamed out. It also means that if things break right and a guy like Pollack, Tuck or Cody is still around at 20, they could pick him and keep their 3-4 scheme dreams alive, since Spears looks like a prototype 3-4 DE. And I’m sure ONE of those three guys, if not two, will be.

this is kind of off the subject but i really want to hear someone elses opinion. Is there a reasonable chance for d johnson or m spears to fall to 20?

Rafael,

I was thinking Spears all the way for the same reason. I think he has seen his fair share of double teams, and still produced. LSU, the last two years, has had one of the toughest schedules in the nation, and he still produced.

If he is there maybe Dallas can press their luck and trade down a few spots, and still get him. The trade with Baltimore might be the best route, if he is off the board at 11.

Let’s trash the 3-4 and draft players for the 4-3. The 11the pick should be on offense (WR) and the 20th pick should be on defense (FS). We then can use our other picks in the lower runs to compliment othe positions. Granted, I still beleive that there are impact players to be taken in the 4th around and beyond. I have real concern for what we may have to give up to get questioable quality players such as Howard and Abrahams. Now I beleive Abrams may be worth a little willing and dealing. Let’s see what type of majic Bill and the Jones can come up with. Looking for responses.

the boys need defense more than offense. I was just looking at some ot’s availible in this draft. I say, trade 11 for a late r1 and r2. Use the two 1’s to get de and olb, use the 2’s to get fs and either wr or ot. We still have k johnson and t glenn. Not to mention two great te’s and a promising hb, and a very good vet. Qb to pass to these guys. Wr just isnt at the top of our list of priorities in my opinion and our needs would be better suited w/two 1’s and two 2’s than w/a wr at 11.I might take d johnson though if he was still there at 11. I think spears could drop to 20. What a great first rd that would be.

I really dont see the reason why we need the 3-4 so badly, i know it presents better flexiblity, but come on we were #1 in defense 2yrs ago with the 4-3… and Micky Spagnola also points out on dallascowboys.com that the cowboys in they’re 30yr history have NEVER been a 3-4 defense.. if we’ve won so many championships, why change a good thing?

Now i’m cool if he wants to use the 3-4 just to mix things up defensivley thats all fine… but i really dont think we should base our whole draft under that premise… and no one has even mentioned Glover, he doesnt work in a 3-4 scheme at all, what are we gonna take him out of plays and let Ferguson play the position? come on Glover is one of the premier pash rushing DT’s in the league.. and i honestly dont believe he can function well as a DE in the 3-4.. if Dallas geuninely wants to get serious with this 3-4 scheme i think they should use Glover as trade-bait perhaps.. as painful as for me to say this, but lets be truthful here… if ur not gonna use the best of the best on a regular basis, then why even have him on the team… Dallas can easily get a high to mid 2nd rounder for him…

Hi guys,

Great blog, I don’t see Spears at 11th, my point? I don’t see Pollack or Merriman at 20th, and even Ware, he’s probably gone at 20th also, so, drafting Pollack or Merriman at 11th is my way to go, with a slight inclination for Pollack, he’s the more polished player, and leave DE for the 20th, you can cover that position with a guy like the two Cody’s, with an inclination for Shaun, because he’s a player that could play DT in a 4-3 in passing sits, in the place of Ferguson who’s more of a run stopper DT, to make the team faster, imagine this lineup in the front 4:
RDE: Pollack
DT: Shaun Cody
DT: Glover
LDE: Ellis
I don’t see McNabb running for 15 seconds with that line.

Also, Ferguson needs a player that can play nose behind him, Shaun has the size, and leave Carson behind Glover.

I think that Parcells knows that he can’t fit a square peg in a round hole, so changing the full play roll to a 3-4 is out of the question, I think that he wants to have the power to keep the Offense guessing what are they going to face, because with the 3-4, with the right personnel, at LB you have 4 guys that are able to go after the QB and also are able to stay with TE’s, wides and RB’s, and so, you never know from where the pressure is coming, because a LB could come from the right, the left or center, that’s the plus with the 3-4. And Parcells still doesn’t have the personel to the switch. And he, in the end of the draft won’t have, still, the personel to make the switch, he can only hope to find the right players to fill some voids to play succesfully certain plays in a scheme, who knows? Even Parcells want players to fill positions for a 2-5, like the one Belichick showed in the SB, it surely stopped Westbrook.

amen brother! The 3/4 thing is fine, but build it slowly by drafting new players. We have glover, ellis, and furgeson right now. of them only furgeson is a for sure 3/4 guy. Not going forward w/ellis and glover is taking one step forward and two huge steps back. if we get a good pass rusher on the other side of the line, we could have one of the best d lines in the nfl this year! rushing into this would be throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Hey Rafael, just came across your site and really liked it… I have my own Cowboys blog over at Most Valuable Network and thought you might want to check that out and maybe we can do a link exchange or something.

What’s up my Cowboy Brethren,?

Let’s not waste these picks on Offense unless somehow Braylon Edwards is there.

Here’s the deal. Our offense really isn’t that bad. Our big problem that is that we cut our starting quarterback in training camp. What team cuts their starting quarterback 5 weeks before the season starts and has a good year? It’s impossible. We were lucky to win 6 games.

Big factor #2, Dan Campbell will be back.

Big factor #3, Rivera gives us 4 good offensive lineman.

Huge factor #4, thank you Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and Tom Landry, we HAVE A RUNNING BACK!

Let’s trade a little, pick up some extra selections, get Howard or Abraham, pick up another stud defender, find us a safety, and get someone else’s 1st round pick for next year.

Go Boys!

Anyone want to get a group together to watch the ’boys in Manhattan this season?

Maybe Glover fits as a D Line guy……but it is a struggle to see Ellis there.

However, Wade Phillips makes a great point about the difference between the 4-3 and the 3-4. One has 3 down lineman and 4 linebackers and the other has 4 down lineman and 3 linebackers……..nuff said. The rest is well details.

Dallas will most likely use the 3-4 some. But unlikely to leave the 4-3 as a primary without more trades than already accomplished.

Our Offense……….Our Offense………..18 pts a game average make anybody happy. Yeah we got a RB, but we now have Bledsoe at QB and our two best WRs are over 30. I am all for drafting defense, especially DE, LB CB to an FS………..but to say our offense is fine and Quincy Carter was the difference maker…………come on. Vinny was honestly an upgrade over Q, he could hit the patterns. Q was a homerun hitter, longball or stikeout.

We need another RB/FB………another WR………….eventually a guy other than Vinny or Testaverde that plays QB……….maybe HENSON………but we aint done at QB yet. We have a glaring need at Tackle and did anybody else notice Larry Allen is aobut to withdraw his social security check for an NFL guy. And what a player he has been, despite the disputes with Parcells imagine where our line would be without him. I hope he last another 5 years but hey………lets be realistic.

Does D need to improve HELL YEAH. But is our offense not that bad………..uh…………is any defense afraid of our Recieves? We got a good TE and potentially the most explosive back in the NFL next year. I call that a good start. Not done, but a good start.

I do not know how to categorize this, but an actual earnest point to make:

New England runs a successful scheme, to say the least.
After four years, other teams may have finally figured out how to run a similar gameplan. QUESTION: Which defense works best against such a scheme – the 3-4 or the 4-3? I lean towards the 3-4 as being more flexible during the course of a game.

Here is what I am getting at: Oiler Troll certainly did not mean to but he may have picked up something in watching the Oilers choke year after year with the Run & Shoot. Bill Billichick coached Cleveland at the time and watched the Oilers run up gawdy numbers and first half leads under Warren Moon and the Run & Shoot, only to see the Oilers self-destruct before getting anywhere (Oiler Troll is alive today only because he did not actually watch the Buffalo Game…which to Cowboy fans would have been the same year as Jimmy Johnson shrugging off a question at halftime in the Super Bowl about a possible Bills comeback – “We’re not Houston” he said dismissively, but I digress).

In any event. Bilichick watched the Run & Shoot shoot itself in the foot by putting the ball up in the air one time too many or exposing the QB late in the game resulting in blown leads again and again (ah Warren, so much promised and so little delivered).

So Billichick took the good from the Run & Shoot, which he could not stop when it was rolling, and threw out the bad to creat a hybrid: A flexible first half offense utilizing a lot of spread formations to score quickly and go up 7-10 points, followed by a ball-control guarded second half offense in which Coery Dillon and company slow the game down, score and run out the clock.

Others have adopted this approach and soon more will do the same. So, what is a more flexible defense to adjust over the course of the game with more versatile players? Probably the 3-4.

Something for the Cowboys to think about.

i say keep the 4-3 this year, and see what happens with our record and where we go. i mean come one you cant throw out what we have here.. ellis, glover, fergy, and then adding another youung DE (or abraham/howard) and we have ourselves one of the best set of d-lineman in the league. i say start SLOWLY getting some 3-4 material, but wait to finally switch when ellis goes down or glover leaves, then maybe start basing our D on the 3-4. because if we were to try and get some bait for ellis or glover, we’ll NEVER get anything compared to how those two guys play. they are amazing guys and they play a strong game each time.

imagine if we trade ellis and glvoer and we end up getting 2nd rounders or something and then they turn out to be busts, like ekuban (even though he was a 1st rounder) then what do we do? we basically would’ve just given up some of the leagues best guys for nothing.

so my point is here…keep the 4-3 and lets have one of the best lines this year. start getting a little bit here and there to change to the 3-4, but dont completely change it and make it such a drama that we end up having a bad season again. i just think if we change completely to a 3-4 so fast, it may just cause even more problems.

besides, i love ellis and glover on our line, and i dont want to see them leave, i wanna see them finish out their careers with great numbers and retire as cowboys. PLUS i wanna see ellis make it to the pro bowl before he leaves and i think he has the best chance with the ’boys.

Again, don’t be overconfident about a total makeover, that won’t happen, New England doesn’t have one mindset alone, that’s the reason for their success, they can play a 3-4 and be successfull at, they can show a 4-3 (see last year conference championship against Pitt, they stopped Bettis and Duce) and be pretty succesful and even they can show a 2-5 and be succesfull, altough 2-5 sounds funny, but they were succesfull stopping Westbrook, who’s overshadowed by T. O., but me honestly thinks that he’s the best weapon Philly has.

I think Parcells knows that, he also knows that he has a defensive coordinator with a 4-3 mindset, 2 LB’s with a 4-3 size out of 5 and 3 DL’s with 4-3 size out of 7, I just believe that he wants some of the flexibility that NE has, he wants to take a team to the field and be able to stop the Westbrook, the Portis and the Barber in our division and still have a flexible team behind the ones playing in the line.

We need to keep the 4-3 this year simply because we need to win and cannot win with no peices to play the 3-4 and trade our best defensive players to get rookies. I like Merriman and Spears, and a WR in the 2nd round. Merriman can pay OLB and also pass rush. Spears can play DE. We can then get a WR like Roddy White or Chris Henry in the 2nd round. I have all the faith in Bill Parcells, but it will be a huge mistake to switch to the 3-4. Get peices to move to the 3-4 in the upcoming years. Think of this 6 man blitz: Ellis, Fergenson, Glover, Spears, Roy, and Shawne. Very hard to stop.

glover has played de before for us, ellis cant be much slower then the olb for the eagles (sorry drawing a blank for his name) i think that might work as well in my own opinion though i say we stay at the 4-3 then all we really need is a de oposite ellis and spend more picks upgrading everywhere else. if we go 3-4 then we need a de, olb or 2. 4-3 i feel we can concentrate on ot, wr, s which is what i feel is alot more crucial, in the last 2 years how many coverage sacks do you think we have had 3-4 tops???

jeremiah trotter man i couldnt think of his name…. hes listed at 6’ 1" 262lbs comparable to ellis 6’6" 271 ellis alot taller but similar weights

I think maybe Bill is loving all the speculation about what scheme are they going to run – the more confusion the better!!! It means his plans are a complete mistery to say the least. If it works out he can run 3-4 great, if it means someone else places a higher price on a tweener and someone else falls to 20 great. All the scenarios are good for Bill with no one really knowing what he is going to do. The only bad part is all of these options!!! The good part is all of the options – a double edged sword. Half the talking heads are going to be saying “I can’t believe he did that!” Which will be fun to watch.

Bill Parcells is a great coach. If ellis can play a 3/4 this year, he’ll know it. Either way, he’s gonna mix it up. Also, keep in mind that this 4/3 was the best defense in the nfl one season ago. We are just a couple of key players away from that right now if we stay primarilly 4/3. Who cares how we get it done, just get it done. We’ll worry about how to deal w/the patriots when we get to them. Lets get to the playoffs first.

New England used a 4-3 against Indianapolis!!!!

If you have the linebackers I think you can run either or, which would make it great to have a tweener like Merriman.

Ferguson even pointed out that the 4-3 gives the lineman more opportunity. It is really about who is going to get the sacks the DE or the OLBs. The 3-4 gives you that are the LBs going to blitz or not threat to the offense……..which is nice.

I personally do not think it was our scheme that was terrible it was our players not making plays. It does not matter what scheme you are in, if you do not tackle, if you do not defend the pass with your dbs, and if you do not put at least a little bit of pressure on the qb……..you are going to lose ball games.

merriman would be the perfect guy for playing 4/3 now and moving to 3/4 over the next couple of years. I think theses are the guys we’ll see them draft this year and next to eventually move to first rd.

i am really getting tired of thinkinf that we are gonna trade down, all im hearing is theres ni depth in the later rounds we should take the best picks with what we have and what we need, we need a good pass rusher so that should be 11 we need need need a good s somebody please tell me im not alone in thinking this, we def need the next woodson at 20 wich in my eyes would be brodney pool, then maybe the burner WR we need to spread the field in the 2nd, and just play fill the holes with the rest.that would be the best thing we could do in my oninion. does any one agree?

I also think Spears is the pick at 11 if he’s available. LB’s can be had later in the draft but there is only one 300lb DE with the athletisicm of Spears, and if we need botha LB and DE to go to a 3-4 well you have to get the only player in the draft that fits one of those positions. And don’t think that Ellis won’t have a position. All Bill wants to be able to do is to run both defenses, so guys who can play both will be on the radar first and foremost.

Jon,

New England started the Indy game with 2 down lineman, daring them to run. Don’t know what game you were watching.

Yes Eric, they were everything against Indianapoolis (2-5, 3-4 and 4-3).

jessej:

So the need at OLB is less important than the ones you listed? Think twice about playing Bradie James there with no real backup.

OLB is a need that’s in the same level of Safety and DE, because you need a player that can play against the pass and against the run, and I guess you don’t want a player that is a liability in either one, because next year you’re going to face twice Westbrook, Portis and Barber, and once Tomlinson, Holmes and some “lesser known players” like the two guys Dallas let go when they traded down last year Kevin Jones and Steven Jackson, LaMont Jordan and a Denver RB (pick one and will make yards). So thinking twice every comment on a need like OLB is a thing that each and every guy like us needs to do.

jessej,

No I don’t agree. Realistically they can fill 4 holes, S (Thomas Davis), LB (Pollack), DE (Tuck), and OT (M. Johnson). Whether it’s with Baltimore or Green Bay, trading out of the 11th spot could net 4 choices in the top 42 (they would have to trade up in the 2nd to do so).

Defense baby!!!

Eric,

Davis looks like a Roy Williams TWIN. We already got a hard hitting SS. We need a FS/CB guy that can cover. Teams are talking about Davis at LB, and Rolle at FS. Didn’t Ronnie Lott start his NFL career as a CB? And move to Safety Later?

Washington, Webster or Rolle would be my choice. Perhaps Poole but I do not know about his coverage skills.

My Point about NE and the 4-3 is basically what Wade Phillips said……….the main difference is 3 down lineman and 4 linebackers or 4 downlineman and 3 linebackers. Granted Teams may want the larger Parcells and Belicheck OLBs and the Tackle like DEs………but essentially Wade Phillips is right.

Would Lawrence Taylor been just as awesome a player as a 4-3 DE? My guess is YES.

People are pointing out this guy is a tweener this guy is not……..Ellis might be a true DE in a 4-3 but he is little small even for the 4-3…….he might not be Leonard Marshal but it does not mean we cut or trade the guy either……Football players play……..and make plays regardless of the scheme……..we need some Football Players.

My only question is what is the learning curve for rookie DE and LBs in the NFL. To believe that a rookie will come in and make a dramatic splash is hardly fair to the team or the rookie. I believe that if you want to win this year then you have to get a quality rush man to place opposite Ellis. I believe that the biggest need is WR and Safety. The two best WR’s are pretty old to say the least and look what happened after our best receiver went down last year. A big quality receiver like Williams if he is available would add some umph to a good offense. The defense is not that far removed from one of the best. Losing one of our pro bowl safeties hurt us a lot last year. The secondary looks better with the new additions and getting Abrams or Howard and stay with the 4-3. With the other picks shore up the O Line. Here again the value of a lineman is not determined in the first years of his career. They have to be developed over time. I remember a offensive lineman that went number1 in the draft not to many years ago that wasn’t worth a seventh by the time it was over.

Tommy,

I would agree with you and believe we should consider a trade for Abraham.

I also like Mike Williams…….but would put Antrel Rolle on the ROSTER first. For exactly the same thing you are saying, he walks on the field and makes an impact. 2nd Mark Clayton is the best route runner in college we might be able to get him, although he does not have the size Williams, he is probably the best to step on the field and compete at WR. Including Edwards and Williams……..although those guys are huge and will be NFL studs.

A DE in the draft that contributes his rookie year is hard to find.

Jon,

OK let’s pass on Davis because he can hit. Now how much sense does that make?

A defensive back trapped in a linebacker’s body, Ronnie Lott hawked the ball like a hungry predator, leading the NFL in interceptions in 1986 with 10, while delivering some of the most brutal hits ever captured on film, many of which are still replayed to this day. Yes he played CB, but his natural position was safety. Played S at USC, and played there for the majority of his carreer. Lott had the speed and ability to hit, not possessed by many. ….. Now comes along another, and you say naa?

You keep talking about Rolle’s speed. On a level playing field, who had the better 40 time? Not only that, but safety is Davis’ natural position. Jon, you keep preaching, “You can’t teach speed.” Davis is faster than any other safety projected to go in the first 2 rounds, heck he is faster than most CBs, including your boy Rolle! Faster, bigger, stronger!! If you like Rolle at 11, then Davis at 20 is a no brainer. Especially if Dallas traded down from the 11th into the 22nd spot or 24th spot.

I saw Antrel Rolle shut down the best WR in college Larry Fitzgerald. The most dominant player in college football last year was Antrel Rolle.

Rolle also Hits and Tackles………no deion coverage here.

What is the more athletic position………CB or S? CB yeah…….I thought so……..so you take a guy like Rolle and convert him to FS……..or you bring in one of our other guys and Rolle moves to Nickel on 3rd down…..or passing down……….

Parcells told Roy Williams to either lose weight or sign on with the linebackers. I am not against having another hard hitter in the secondary……..Rolle is……….actually PacMan can tackle too……..but what I want and what we have to have is guys that can COVER.

Who is the better athlete? …. Davis or Rolle? Davis yeah …… I thought so ….. Bigger! Stronger! Faster!

Who is the better safety? …. Davis or Rolle? Davis yeah …… I thought so …… Bigger! Stronger! Faster!

Listen, I told you I like Rolle, but at 11 ….. no way! If a trade happens with either Baltimore or Green Bay, it could net Davis or Pollack (in the 1st round) and Marcus Johnson (in the 2nd). Now that’s the value I’m looking for!!

Jon,

Tricky here too! Rolle has more value than Davis, because he plays CB. Once Rolle swiches position his value falls. If he plays CB for us, again his value falls, because he is starting the season on the bench.

Place him on your S board and he falls to #2 behind none other than Davis.

Rolle is a top 5 player in this draft! If he is there at 11, then there is something wrong with the teams ahead of us. In the event he is there, we still have to trade for the value he demands, because our starting CB situation is taken care of. Now if you are going to say a nickle CB is worth a 1st round selection because of the new rules, I can’t agree with you. No way! No how! ….. Does a nickle corner out value a starting DE!! No! …. If we want a S, Davis at 20 is a much better value than Rolle at 11!!

Eric:

Here I don’t agree with you, I agree with Jon, strange, right?

You are wrong when you say that Davis is a Ronnie Lott, well I could say more than wrong, in college Lott was impresive in film in coverage, yes he was more valuable at safety because he could cover and hit, but as a FS, Davis is viewed as a SS mainly because in film you can see him taking bad angles and hesitant, 2 particular thing we saw last year with Roy Williams at FS. U just cannot make those types of comparisons because Davis looks a lot more like a Rodney Harrison than a Ronnie Lott.

Now I wasn’t saying that Davis is a lot like Lott, I was saying that just because a safety can hit, doesn’t mean he can’t cover. Lott is definately a guy who excelled in both areas.

Davis covers who he is supposed to. I mean Ronnie Lott didn’t line up against a bunch of WRs, safeties hardly ever do. If a S is in single coverage its usually against a TE or RB. Davis plays well in space, and takes good angles. He has the speed to cover a slot WR if nessessary, and also makes up ground quickly. And don’t give me what if T.O. lines up in the slot stuff, because 99.9% of the CBs in the NFL have a hard time covering him one on one. His hesitation? Well most of the DBs in this draft will have to adjust, because most of them admittedly will look into the back field too long. Parcells will pound it into his head, “know your assignment!” Chandus, my point is Davis is a better SAFETY than Rolle, right now! Much better quality drafting Davis at 20 than Rolle at 11!

Eric:

Better quality with a selection would be taking Considine or Bullocks with a 2nd rounder, both guys have experience covering at FS and in the slot. The 2 first rounders should be used to upgrade the front 7.

Gentleman,

I subscribe to the Jimmy Johnson Secondary theory.

Draft CBs for all your positions. Except…….the one exception……Darren Woodson………..which was a LB with CB speed……..uh Roy Williams is our LB playing SS……….so draft another CB.

Antrel Rolle might start over Henry or Newman……….we do not know that either of them is a better corner than Rolle. My argument all along has been sign him up compete losers plays FS……..the Jimmy approach to the secondary. Teams, Coaches, and Rolle himself answered the question would he play at Safety……..YES. Does he want to be a CB, sure…….but rookies go where Bill Parcells tells them not the other way around.

Reeves, Frazier, Hunter, Thornton………..who knows. Antrel Rolle is a player…….so is Washington, Poole, Webster, Rogers, Pac Man Jones….Davis is being projected at linebacker in a 4-3….all players……….we need help in the secondary……..the only player we added is Henry and a healthy Pete Hunter? Come on…….we sucked at coverage last year. We are still going to get a DE probably at 11………20 and 42………I say get the best tackling CB available and covert em to FS……..use the other pick on WR best available……..and all other picks and drafts go to DE, DT, and LB