Turning Their Noses on Greatness

Yes.

Hell yeah there’s a bias! I watched #88 on the Best Damn Sport Show last night and when he talked about you could see how much that stung him being snubbed if anyone deserves to be in the HOF it’s Michael Irvin he was the heartbeat of ourt team in the 90’s he did so many other things besides catching passes he was a leader. Yeah he had some issues off the field but that doesn’t take away anything he did on the field. Hell, Steve Young was a backup for most of his career and he made it. I got two words for that selection process BULLSHIT!!!! and I know my Cowboy brethern feel me on this

Interesting question. Let me answer it for you. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? HELL YES! How on earth could the voters not put Michael Irvin in? Eventually, they’ll have to, but for crying out loud, the man’s acoomplishments destroy those of guys who are already there. If ever there should have been a lock for a first year entrant, THIS IS THE GUY! Regardless of your personal feelings about him, just look at the man’s accomplishments, compare them to other first ballot HOF entrants, and then tell me why he’s not already there.

Any discussion of Cliff Harris and Rayfield Wright getting into Canton should have ended long ago with their inductions. It’s just pathetic. Don’t even get me started on Bob Hayes, and I don’t want to hear any foolishness about his off-field life. We are not discussing the humanitarian hall of fame.

This is one of those questions that could really get me started, so I’m going to stop here. Say whatever you want, but you cannot convice me that there is not a bias where Cowboy players are concerned.

This is not even debateable by any knowledgable fan. Harris, Hayes and Wright should have been in 20 years ago. Harris and Wright were part of the ALL 70’s team- the ONLY two not in the HOF. It is no coincidence that they are Cowboys. Bob Hayes forced the creation of the Zone Defence. THAT ALONE warrants his induction. Several sportswriters have ADMITED they are biased against Cowboys players- yet they are allowed to vote on the HOF. TOTAL BS.

I have always viewed this as a testament to the “team” concept, of which Landry was master. The Cowboys of the Landry years (whose players have unquestionably been snubbed by the Hall) were not about individual players having breakout seasons. Those Cowboys were about balanced offenses and cohesive defenses…not exactly a formula for polishing one’s Hall resume.

That being said, it is clearly laughable for the lightning bolts to have an equal number of Hall of Famers. Just ridiculous. The NFL should be ashamed.

Let’s see the HOF voters try and snub Troy aikman who should get nod this year. All hell will break loose!

In my opinion there is a crystal clear bias against the Boys. America’s team is for the most part either loved or hated, they’re not just another team. And i know this first hand, having served in the military for 6 years, i’ve visited more than half of our states for extended periods of time in each. TWO things that i encountered in every single place was cowboys haters, and COWBOYS FANS.

MOST IMPORTANT THING THOUGH, IS THAT WE CAN NOW LOOK FORWARD TO SOME GOOD YEARS AS COWBOY FANS!!!!!!!!!

Erik,

Another slur hurled by the mediots at Irvin to try and discredit his numbers is “he’s a possession receiver.” Or “he pushed off,” implying that he lacked some skill level necessary for greatness. (Never mind that lack of innate skill never stopped them from voting for Raymond Berry or Steve Largent for offseason honors).

I’m sure if you put Irvin in a footrace against the better receiver of his era he would finish at the back of the pack. But when his career was over, I compared Irvin’s yards per reception average to guys from his time who will receive huge consideration for the Hall: Rice, Andre Reed, Tim Brown, Cris Carter, Sterling Sharpe (pre-injury), Herman Moore. Guess what? Irvin was number one. Even better than the gilded Rice. He’s the only one of the top receivers in this groups who averaged 20 ypc for a season. Did it twice. If you’re getting the ball farther down the field than anybody else on a consistent basis, especially the best, you belong in the pantheon.

And here’s a prediction I make with some sadness: those 0-4 Bills teams will get more folks into the Hall than the Jimmy Cowboys will. The 0-4 Vikings (Krause, Tarkenton, Eller, Page, Grant) have as many as the Cowboys of that time (Lilly, Staubach, Renfro, Dorsett, Landry).

MW:

Aikman is a first-ballot inductee. ’Nuf said.

Irvin’s problem is that now, the HOF committee has to decide if they want to induct 2 Cowboys in the same year. They may balk at that, although they may also allow it since they “made a statement” last year by not voting Irvin in because of his off-the-field issues.

Not to mention that the following players will also be eligible in 2006: Warren Moon, Reggie White, Thurman Thomas and Deion Sanders.

Comparing Irvin’s receiving numbers to other HOF receivers, here is what you see:

• 4th in Yards (11,904)
• T-3rd in Receptions (750)
• 3rd in Pro Bowl Avg (Years / Pro Bowls) (2.4) – 5 consecutive appearances
• 1st in Yards Per Year Avg (992)
• T-10 TDs (65)

I discount the TD number because Irvin was never a deep, TD threat. He was the touch catch, the clutch reception, the go-to guy when you needed to move the chains. Sure, he’s break out and get to the end zone a bit, but his routes were never down-the-field, long-ball patterns.

If you want to see the comparisons to the other WRs, I created this link to show the comparison. It’s in a spreadsheet format so anyone who has Excel can re-sort and compare the numbers.

Aikman to Irvin. How many times have we seen that combination? Since the voters didn’t have the stones to induct Mike on the first ballot, I can’t think of anything more appropriate then sending these two guys in together. What do you guys think?

Hell, yes!!! Those beaurocratic press journalist have way to much to say in the HOF ballots. Remember, as COWBOY fans only we know how much other people hate our Dynasty Team of past/present. In our hearts we know who belongs and who doesn’t. Then again, if we did put in all of our beloved Dallas Cowboys, Canton would have to build a wing just for our inductees!!!

Bob Hayes revolutionized the game with his world class speed. Teams were forced to play a man deep in a zone coverage, because no one could cover Hayes man to man, playing a deep zone was something teams hadn’t done before Hayes. In 1966 he caught 64 passes for 1232 yards and 13 touchdowns. In comparison Terrell Owens had 77 receptions, 1,200 yards and 14 TDs this year, and was considered the best WR in 2004. (T.O. and Hayes both played in 14 games those years) Hayes also returned punts, and in 1968 he returned 15 punts for 312 yards (20.8 yard average) and 2 TDs. During his Hall of Fame career he had 371 receptions for 7,414 yards and 71 touchdowns. Oh did I say Hall of Fame? Well ALL of his numbers are better than Swan’s! Including the Cowboy’s remarkable 20+ yards per catch average. He belongs in Canton too.

The “Bullet” Bob Hayes earned his nickname after winning two Gold Medals in the 64 Olympics, and being named the “World’s Fastest Human” after tying the World Record in the 100 meter dash. Just a spectacular athlete! The only man to earn a Super Bowl Ring and an Olympic Gold Medal.

His 71 TD receptions still tops the Cowboys’ all time list.

The writers focus too much on the off the field issues. Irvin should have been in last year. The writers dont put enough emphasis on Super Bowl Rings. Tom Brady’s numbers aren’t spectular or Hall of Fame worthy, but is he going to make it? Hell yeah. Aikman is first ballot, and Irvin should get in the same year.

Deion came back to football last year, that would delay his induction for another five years right? And who knows after the hard work of training camp is over he may sign on for yet another year.

Reggie White is undoubtedly a first ballot guy as is Aikman.

Bills will probably see Thurman Thomas and Bruce Smith for sure get in. Not sure about much else. Hard to believe the Vikings and Chargers have as many players in the Hall. Well, if you asked any of those old Cowboys I am sure they would all tell you they would rather have been Super Bowl winners than pretenders. I think Irvin will get in this year. If they made the balloting public you would see a whole lot more Dallas Cowboys get in.

Landry’s Cowboys had 20 consecutive winning seasons. I doubt that will ever be duplicated in this era. Hard to believe some of those other greats are not in the Hall. Everson Walls, Tony Hill, Drew Pearson, Too Tall, Charlie Waters those were some awfully good football players.

Jay,

Canton SHOULD build a wing just for our inductees.

Yes, i think so

Personally, I donâ€â"¢t get terribly upset by the snubs. The HOF is an individual award given by people hardly involved in the game whose bias against â€Å"Americaâ€â"¢s Team” (despite the body of selectors applying the label) is obvious and preposterous enough to render the entire affair almost silly. I will be happy when Mike and Troy and Emmitt are inducted because they deserve such recognition, but it would be vastly more meaningful, IMO, if they were voted in by their peers and predecessors. People who can attest by experience, to their achievements.

But it is what it is. Louisville Eric makes a good point about the team concept diluting the individual contributions to such great teams, as our Cowboys past. The statistics offered here demonstrate that this data is hardly the final measure either. The reasoning is esoteric, comprised of bias, league commonweal, character, but most likely in recognition of standout performances where team support was failing. The individual Cowboys were perceived successful because of the team, despite statistical proof to the contrary. Perhaps the thinking is, to the victors go the spoils to the rest, the HOF.

Aikman, Irvin, and Bob Hayes should be/have been first balot HOFers. Aikman and Irvin for simply the rings, wins, and individual stats. Bob Hayes for reinventing what a wide receiver was. He was the first of a long line of speedsters who could play football. These 3 should be lead pipe locks. There is also alot of defensive players and offensive lineman that have been snubbed simply because they performed in a team concept system, rather than a “look at my statistics” system. Perhaps some present day NE Patriots will be viewed like this by the Hall.

A lot of great points, and I agree the ‘Boys have been shafted to an extent. But allow me to play devil’s advocate for a minute.

I don’t consider Irvin’s exclusion of becoming a first ballot inductee a snub. When you put Mike’s numbers in context with other HOF WRs his place in Canton is undeniable. The Playmaker will get in. Period.

But just 2 of the 19 WRs (of the Modern Era) currently enshrined in Canton got in on the first ballot. Both of those receivers left the game as the all-time leader in receptions and/or yards at the time of their retirement. And there have been other undeniably qualified WRs that have been passed over (like Art Monk), as well.

And while I agree with the overall theme of this article, it’s hard for me to include the 90s era Cowboys in this argument. Most of the players responsible for 3 of the ‘Boys 5 Lombardi trophies aren’t even eligible yet. Troy, Emmitt, LA are locks to be first ballot HOFers. And several part-timers like Haley, Dieon and Parcells are sure to join ’em.

That said, there are several old-schoolers that haven’t been given the respect or recognition they deserve. But it’s hard for me to question the motives and credibility of the HOF selection committee when the current owner of the Cowboys doesn’t feel these players are even worthy enough to be included in the franchise’s own Ring of Honor. That’s a far greater injustice, disgrace and dishonor of the memory of these overlooked greats and rich team history than anything the HOF selection committee is guilty of (and, for the record, I’m not a big fan of these unprincipled, biased hacks either), IMHO.

Put these players in the Ring, and replace the mediots on the selection committee with living HOFers.

it appears to be true. with the cowboys you either love or hate them and maybe that goes the same with the writers who vote. to me irvin should be a first ballot h.o.f. the numbers are amazing, there are few wr that have comparable numbers. we will find out in 5 years if emmitt is not a first ballot then the writers need to changed….

Jerry needs to build us a REAL hall of fame, right next to the new stadium. I think green bay has a museum or HOF, but no team is more deserving of its own HOF than Dallas.

And this won’t happen, but if Irvin is snubbed again next year, Aikman should protest by starting a new Cowboy tradition: SNUB Canton and have all our Cowboy greats and fans recognize only the Ring of Honor or a new Cowboys HOF when they biuld the stadium.

Again, Troy wouldn’t do that, but I think it would be cool to send a message to the rest of the leauge saying, “Hey, we don’t need ya’ll!”

Just a thought. It bugs me that, as many of you guys have pointed out, OBJECTIVELY speaking, the Cowboys should have way more inductees in the HOF than they currently due. It’s not right.

rich

Jerry needs to build us a REAL hall of fame, right next to the new stadium. I think green bay has a museum or HOF, but no team is more deserving of its own HOF than Dallas.

And this won’t happen, but if Irvin is snubbed again next year, Aikman should protest by starting a new Cowboy tradition: SNUB Canton and have all our Cowboy greats and fans recognize only the Ring of Honor or a new Cowboys HOF when they biuld the new stadium.

Again, Troy wouldn’t do that, but I think it would be cool to send a message to the rest of the leauge saying, “Hey, we don’t need ya’ll!”

Just a thought. It bugs me that, as many of you guys have pointed out, OBJECTIVELY speaking, the Cowboys should have way more inductees in the HOF than they currently due. It’s not right.

rich

Yes, I believe the Boys are being snubbed, especially Cliff Harris, Rayfield Wright and “Bullett” Bob Hayes. However, as Louisville Eric pointed out, the Cowboys success goes to show you that it takes a TEAM to win the big one. Sure, a lot of teams have just as many, if not more players in the HOF, but what counts most, is “Are your supporting cast better than the other teams?” If so, then you win the big one, because it takes more than star players to win the Super Bowl. Look at New England as a great example. How about the Ravens in 2000?

I think it would be most appropriate if first, Jerry puts Aikman, Irvin, and Emmitt into the ring of honor together, then the NFL can make an exception on Emmitt, not having to wait and put the “Tripplets” into the HOF together!

That may be asking too much from the Mediots!

Looks like Jerry Rice cannot find another NFL team to play for and will finally be forced to hang up the cleats.

Those are two first ballot HOFs for sure Emmit Smith and Jerry Rice. Five years from now.

There is no way the mediots will snub Emmit Smith. If the mediots are correct about how great our line was, and all that jazz……..then they need to induct Tuienia, Newton, Williams, Stepnoski, and eventually Larry Allen and personally I think the contribution of Darryl Johnston all should get HOF consideration. Ask Emmit, he would put every one of those guys in their. The media cannot have it both ways, they cannot say what a great line we had and then exclude those guys from the Hall also.

I know our Offense went to a lot more pro bowls than our Defense. Seemed like we had a lot of turnover along the Line of Scrimmage and in the linebacker corp.

What about a guy like Jay Novacek? Who had some pretty good stats, but man was he clutch for the Cowboys back then or what. Seemed like every third and long went to a 18 yard pass right up the middle to ole number 84.

Oh well, all those guys would rather have their Super Bowl rings and the memories of those teams than the Hall of Fame.

Troy goes in for sure and I think Irvin will get in with Him. When is Jimmy Johnson eligible. He has to go in!!!

Jon,
I couldn’t agree with you more. Cowboys get snubbed again!

Emmitt and Rice, what a class that will be. The All-Time WR and the All-Time RB!

Paul,

You want to play devil’s advocate? Well then explain Lyn Swan getting the nod.

Bob Hayes was all the credentials you look for in a Hall of Fame player. He revolutionized his position, put up stats worthy of Canton, and won championships.

The only logical solution …. the writers indeed have a bias against the Cowboys. There is no bigger slap in the face then to let Swan in and keep Hayes, Pearson (489 rec, 7822 yds, and 48 TDs), and now Irvin out. They all have better numbers than Swan!

I don’t mean to be rude, but explain that Mr. Devil’s Advocate.

I think Jerry Rice and Emmit Smith have more touchdowns between them than the entire Tampa Bay Bucs Franchise in all its history!!!!

That wouldn’t surprise me one bit! How about the 6 Super Bowls between them? We could go on and on with this! LOL

My biggest beef is with regards to Bob Hayes. The man single handedly transformed NFL defenses to the zone coverage, because nobody could cover the guy!! The reason Lawrence Taylor got in so quickly is because of his impact on the game.

My contention is that Hayes had a bigger impact on the NFL “game” than LT, and you’d be hard pressed to disagree with that point.

BOTH #22’s should be in the HOF …

Raul,

What pisses me off about Bob Hayes is the fact that they could have easily inducted him when he was alive. Now that he is gone, I’m not sure they ever will. Everybody knows how badly he wanted it.

Now here’s the kicker. How on earth can you justify leaving spots open instead of letting a more than deserving Cowboy in? That’s just an abuse of power. If you’ve got 6 potential inductions, and you choose to only induct 4 people, something is just damn wrong! You can’t tell me there are not enough deserving candidates, Cowboys or not, to fill out a damn HOF class.

Another Team with a similar proud tradition and the Perfect Season, the Miami Dolphins area also lacking on Hall of Famers. While they are a few years younger than our Cowboys, Shula’s Dolphins most resemble the Dallas Cowboys for their consistent winning seasons.

When one thinks of Shula the only other comparison is Tom Landry. Longevity and Consistency are the hallmarks of these two great coaches. Perhaps it is exactly because of the schemes, and teamwork of these legendary coaches that so few of their players are being placed in the Hall of Fame. Landry’s list of assistant coaches is rather impressive as well.

The Dolphins made a name with the NO NAME defense. I remember comparisons to our own Super Bowl team of the 90s when we failed to put a single pro bowler from Defense, despite having one of the best defenses in the league.

I think that many times in the game of football Super Stars are forced to struggle on teams with little support. Walter Payton, Barry Sanders and Earl Campbell are three such examples. Although late in his career the Bears of 85 were quite a team. I remember a few games where short on QBs Payton took the ball directly from center as the QB and still had an amazing game. Barry Sanders was one highlight after another, however his team was rarely good. Earl Campbell might have been the most powerful runnner to ever wear pads. However, his teams both in Houston and New Orleans were never very good. Those men are obviosly deserving of the HOF. Looking at the many wonderful teams of the Dallas Cowboys in their proud tradition, perhaps it is as much a compliment that these men are less remembered for their individual accomplishments than the great teams they played on.

“I firmly believe that any man’s finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.” Vince Lombardi……….he did not say it was when you were enshrined in Canton and I think the fine men of the tradition of the Dallas Cowboys would agree with Coach Lombardi’s assessment. More often than not our Dallas Cowboys were exhausted and victorious……..that remains with them all!!!

Rob2,

Not only that but, Fritz Pollard and Benny Friedman played 70+ years ago.

maddrich,
Harry Carson did exactly what you’re suggesting Troy consider before this year’s HOF vote.

—-
“And as this year’s vote for the Pro Football Hall of Fame approaches, he is indeed different: the first candidate to request that his name be removed from consideration for induction into the Hall in Canton, Ohio. In each of the previous five years, he was among the 15 finalists discussed by the panel of 39 pro football writers and broadcasters, but he was not selected for induction. "I’ve been through this long enough,” Carson said Monday evening in a telephone interview. “It has to do with my own pride and what I think about myself. What was an honor is now a burden.”" NYTimes
--

Members of the Pro Football Hall of Fame selection committee obviously aren’t interested in their credibility, but I’d like to think the NFL would be a little more concerned about tarnishing the legacy of their game. It astounds me how these so-called writers are unable to recognize the profound honor and awesome responsibility they’ve been entrusted with, and how the league continues to ignore this disgraceful mockery of the sport’s history.

Of course, Harry Carson’s request was not honored, and a player that was voted to the Pro Bowl by his piers 9 times in 13 seasons and earned two rings was denied once again. This snub is particularly shameful, IMHO.

Jon,
No disrespect to Shula intended, but the year they recorded the leagues only Perfect Season they played only two teams with a record above .500, and both of those teams were 8-6. The Fins’ opponents cumulative record for the ’72 regular season was a pathetic 54-97 for a whopping .358 winning percentage.

Don’t misunderstand me. That was an exceptional team that defeated some very good teams in the playoffs, but the ‘Perfect Season’ is not nearly as impressive as some would lead you to believe.

Paul,

thanks for the reply and the info. wow. can’t say I’ve ever heard of Harry Carson before, but yeah, i can see how these players would be bitter about this whole process.

my suggestion for Troy was that he should snub AFTER being accepted IF michael was snubbed again. KIND OF LIKE A PRE-EMPTIVE SNUB.

but yeah, he wouldn’t do that- it’s still too big an honor.

RICH

Paul,

I guess we could evaluate some of our own success by the opponents we faced as well. Other than the fact that the season was 14 games instead of 16, it was no small accomplishment and has not occurred again. Regardless of the competition a team faces. I have never seen a team, regardless of record or rank hand over an NFL football game then or now.

As you know we have been cellar dwellers and still manage to beat NFC East opponents like the Redskins who were a much better team. A few years ago the Spurrier led Redskins were the last team to defeat a Super Bowl bound Patriots team. The level of competition in the NFL is so high regardless of record.

Rocky Marciano never faced the kind of fighters that Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier did, nonetheless he remains the undefeated Heavyweight. A record that can not be diminished by a shortage of great opponents. Unless you prefer to be a revisionist.

What the Dolphins did was pretty incredible and has never been duplicated by the likes of any team including wonderful franchises like the Steelers, Cowboys and 49ers. Now had they lost in the playoffs or in the Bowl, we could all say yeah but……..but they did not they capped a perfect season. The closest team I can remember was the Chicago Bears of 85 who the Dolphins themselves defeated late in the year to keep their own record in tact.

My point was not so much about the Dolphins team, as the fact that that club has had similar success under Shula as the Dallas Cowboys did under Landry. Several Super Bowl appearances, multiple winning seasons including the perfect season. Yet both teams seemed to be snubbed by the HOF. Great teams may just be that, great teams.

One should ask the likes of Charlie Joiner, or Dan Fouts if they would prefer a bust in Canton or a Ring on their Finger? I think we all know the answer.

Very well said, Jon, and great conversations on all of you in this blog. This is the best place for Cowboy fans to discuss our team!

Paul,
Thanks for reminding us about Harry Carson. I’d forgotten about that. I think the NFL should take acloser look at the selection process, because it does tarnish the history of the game.

Jon,
I think we all know what the answer would be from Joiner, Fouts, Winslow, Marino, Kelly, Tarkenton, Page,…….

Jon,
Point well taken. You can only play whoever’s on your schedule. I agree Marciano never faced the level of competition of Ali, but that doesn’t diminish his legacy in my mind. And unfortunately, I don’t believe boxer Roy Williams Jr. will get the recognition he deserves relative to the all-time greats due to his lack of strong competition.

It’s difficult enough to compare teams/players/athletes across different eras, and it’s even more difficult considering the relative competition from one era to the next.

Like I said, that was an exceptional team (’72 Fins), and there was no slight inteded. But I would be a lot more impressed with their accomplishment if they had done so against better competition.

Shula and Landry definitely had comparable careers. My take on the league’s only Perfect Season does not take away from Shula’s accompilshments in my mind.

My biggest beef with the ‘Perfect Season’ is that you can tell the most about a team based on their record against quality opponents. There have been a few one-loss teams playing a 16-game schedule since then that have been more impressive (based on their strength of schedule), IMHO.

For an interesting and revealing read about the importance of ‘quality wins’ check out the Cold, Hard Football Facts take here:
www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/facts/010505qualitywins.php

And their follow-up piece here:
www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/facts/012405parade2.php

QUESTION:

Let’s say Canton snubbs Irvin again next year. How would you guys feel if Aikman or Smith were to then step up and DECLINE their sure-to-be first ballot HOF inductions as a sign of protest and unity?

And what if every Cowboy hereafter were to respectfully decline their inductions into Canton as a show of unity and respect for those Cowboy greats from the 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s who’ve been snubbed in the past, opting instead to recognize only in the Ring of Honor and a Cowboys Hall of Fame?

Would you guys support that? I sure would.

Maddrich,

I would support it, but it will never, ever, happen.

madrich,

There is a good chance that Irvin gets snubbed again. The process requires 80% of the vote, and it will take some of the writers to change their minds, otherwise he is out.

As one blogger pointed out: these writers have no business being such a huge part of the selection process! The Hall should really consider getting one representative, a player or former player, from each NFL franchise and handful of coaching greats like Marv Levy and Chuck Noll. Then each rep and coach votes on the 15 nominated players, excluding them to vote on players that played for the franchises they represent. The nominated players would need 75% approval by his peers/coaches to move to the next step. Then the vote goes on to the writers where 75% is needed there too.

But getting back to what you said, Rich. Declining Canton altogether? Ah, I wouldn’t do it, but Aikman and Emmitt should surely snub their noses right back at the Hall by publically critisizing the process, as should every Cowboy.

It wouldn’t surprise me if Aikman gets snubbed. They can’t snub Emmitt , because his numbers are too huge. Aikman on the other hand, his numbers aren’t as good as Kelly, Marino, Young, Elway or Favre, so I wouldn’t be surprised if the media sticks it to the Cowboys again and don’t let Aikman into the Hall.

My Guess is, Emmitt goes in on the first ballot. Aikman eventually makes it after 3 attempts, and Irvin doesn’t go in until 10 years, if at all. How can the media justify Irvin getting voted in, if they don’t vote Bullet Bob Hayes in?

They need to get the HOF voting out of the hands of these writers who have a vendeta against a certain team or player.

What would really be nice, is if the HOF included “Teams” into the hall. Say ‘72 Dolphins, ’78 Steelers, ’77, ’92,’93 Cowboys, ’85 Bears, ’86 Giants, ’88 49ers, etc. Then you could say that “AS A Team,” they made it into the HOF. Then, you would have players in there with the team and individually, so less people get snubbed, and gives the HOF a way to reward a team effort.

We’ll still get snubbed………

Eric Richard,
I must’ve missed your response to my original post initially. Not trying to dodge the question.

If you’ll re-read my original post you’ll see I said, “I donâ€â"¢t consider Irvinâ€â"¢s exclusion of becoming a first ballot inductee a snub.” I agree that it would be unjustifiable if The Playmaker is never inducted, but I don’t see it as a great stretch of credibility to deny his entry on the first ballot considering the only two first ballot WRs inducted retired as the all-time leaders in yards and/or receptions.

I also went on to say, “there are several old-schoolers that havenâ€â"¢t been given the respect or recognition they deserve.” I would put Bob Hayes at the top of my short list of old-school Cowboy greats that have been shafted.

- Mr. Devil’s Advocate and Unapologetic Cowboys Homer ;)

Paul,

My point is, there is no other point of view once Swan enters into the picture. He doesn’t even belong there in Canton. Now if he wasn’t there and Irvin had to wait a year or two, then there may be a point. Even Drew Pearson, a receiver not even being considered strongly by the faithful, had a stronger case than Swan. Hayes and Irvin, its laughable when you compare them to the Steelers wide out. Hayes revolutionized the game with his speed. His contibution to the game and the WR position alone gives him a stronger case than Swan ….. and he had much better career stats to boot!

By enshrining Swan and not Hayes, Harris, and Wright the voters did FOOTBALL an injustice, not just Dallas Cowboy’s fans.

I love football and the NFL. In my opinion the executives do a termendous job …. but by allowing a guy with subpar numbers into the Hall, and keeping out another who played the same position, changed the way the game is played, and put up “Hall of Fame” numbers … that’s just repulsive. …. you put Harris, Wright, Irvin (like it or not he is not in), and Hayes together and it all adds up to a bias by the writers. Remember it only takes 8 negative votes to decline a candidate, so there is a good chance most of them are fair.

The boys get snubbed because most everyone is a closet Cowboys hater. When you’re as good as The Boys have been, people resent it. The other thing is that the Cowboys have been slow to add players to the Ring of Honor. As long as they’re not in the Ring, the HOF will use it as an excuse to snub our greatest players.

Drew Pearson’s interview with dallascowboys.com reveals he too thinks there is a bias against Cowboy greats. The receiver of the “Hail Mary” play that he and Roger Staubach made popular, Pearson thinks that the votes should be made public to see if certain writer have formed a trend voting against Cowboy greats. It is great that someone is speaking out, and is giving ideas to fix the problem. As I have previously posted, according to the standards that the voters had set by voting in Swan, Dallas should have 5 more players in Canton right now.

Eric,

Drew’s comments were right in line with your piece!!!!

ESPN just featured Drew on a segment.

He talked about Wright, Hayes, Too Tall, Charles Haley, Drew Pearson and even plugged Art Monk and Michael Irvin as HOF guys that should be there.

Jon:

Good point about Monk. I had a discussion with a Redskins fan this past weekend (after rebuilding my laptop that crashed last week – another story …).

As much as I dislike the Redskins, I agree that Art Monk should have been in by now. And he agreed that Irvin should have been in this time as well.

Must have been a moment of clarity for a Redskin faithful… :-)

Didn’t Monk have a streak of games with a catch or a touchdown…….I cannot remember now, but I thought Monk was the best and most consistent of those guys……..he was pretty clutch for them……and just seemed to play forever……..all those guys did Darryl Green…….and some of their offensive lineman……..

they definitely have a few guys that have been shafted by the Hall as well……….I hated those Redskins…….but you had to respect them……..Mann and Manley……..Darryl Green……Riggins and Monk……..I will not even mention Theisman he was such a putz………but they were a talented bunch…..

I no longer put any stock into the HOF. They need to get the pencil pushing AP out of the equation and come up with another way of qualifying people for the Hall of Fame.