Three In the Ring

Hi Everybody!

Have you ever been out with a woman who drank too much, only to have her crash on your couch in an incoherent heap? Well, that’s what Oiler Troll is dealing with here at 3:05 am this fine Saturday night, but that is not important right now.

Dude, Herschel Walker so has to be in the ring (as a Minnesota Viking, of course – and a touch of purple might liven up the place). Without Jimmy making that trade, would there have been such dominance in the 1990s?

Not being in the ring was the EXCUSE some used- they would not have made it anyway due to anti-Cowboys bias. Only by exposing that do they have any chance at all- and I am not holding my breath.

Burmafrd’s right. We all know that there is a bias against Cowboy players. If we didn’t know it before, the HOF induction committee proved it to us when they snubbed Irvin. A while back, I read an article that showed Irvin’s accomplishments against guys who are already in the HOF. Irvin dwarfed some of those guys in every category.

I’d like to see Nate Newton get in to the ring of honor.

Also Charles Haley

Darren Woodson

Jay Novacek

I have long contended that if Troy, Michael, and Emmit are inducted into the Ring or the Hall. There are other guys that surrounded them and deserve it as well. The argument of Barry vs. Emmit was always by every Cowboys hater and every Barry lover……..YEAH BUT LOOK AT THE LINE OF THE DALLAS COWBOYS. Well, I certainly have to agree they went from Troy laying on his back and looking up through the hole Tex left so God could watch his team. To hardly ever getting touched while Emmit was racking up 1000 yard seasons. Irvin catching 1000 seasons, and the rest of the offense just steamrolling through the entire NFL.

Hey Stepnoski, Tui, Nate, Erik, and later Larry were all a big part of that success. Let’s hear it for the big unsung heros of football and put up some of those guys. Two other guys that deserve at as well, and nobody would say so more than Emmit and Troy are Darryl Johnston and Jay Novacek. Darryl more for taking on that guy in the hole. How well he did that over the year, and occassionally catching one or even rumbling for a few yards. But he was essentially a part of that very good blocking that gave Emmit some daylight. Jay Novacek was just Mr. First Down, and was a security blanket for Troy. How many 3rd and Longs did that guy catch. He was clutch.

Just like in the gridiron of my youth, the QB, RB and WR got a lot of glory and usually the pretty cheerleaders too. But those lineman, FB, and TE did all the heavy lifting. Nobody knows that better than Troy, Michael and Emmit. Hey the new stadium is supposed to be bigger, it may very well have to be for all the names that deserve to go up.

Two other worthy additons would be Charles Haley and Darren Woodson. The defesne was very good as a unit, but I think Darren and Charles were difference makers. (although I think you have to give it a few years before you induct Darren just let the dust settle………I mean how many tackles did that guy have……he was the heart and soul of our Defense and that showed last year without him) Charles might have played longer for the 49ers but anybody that watched the 90s Cowboys knows what a difference he brought to our pass rush and the entire Defense. We had a lot of good linebackers but so much turnover at that position. Those guys just came and went and came and went. How is Haley not in the HOF? I mean his years with the 49ers should get the Cowboys haters off his back a little.

Remember back then all the pro bowlers from both sides of the football for the Buffalo Bills. Yet the Cowboys sent less to the probowl but managed to beat the Bills twice……not to mention the other two losses the Bills suffered. How is it that pro bowl negelected the Cowboys then, and now the HOF too. Let’s not let the ring do that.

Ed “Too Tall” Jones is another guy that you look at his numbers. And keep in mind when the league started tracking sacks as a statisic………i mean how many balls did he bat down? Is he being punished for his boxing experiment?

While I am excited for the Triplets, and I believe the three deserve it and the HOF. I hope the Cowboys and Jerrry Jones will recognize our other guys down in the trenches. In front of every good QB, RB and WR is a good old lineman. Oh and by the way, that includes Barry Sanders even if the Barry Fan club fails to admit it.

most definitely johnston, novacek, woodson, maybe newton, and when larry allen retires, he’ll definitely be there

Woodson easily, the leader in tackles. Allen when he retires will be in. I think Newton, Johnston, and Novacek should be in, but Nate’s off the field issues will always overshadow him IMO.

Between Erik Williams and Newton, I’d take Williams in a heartbeat, Newton was a pretty good Guard, but Williams is one of the best RT’s of all time…

Erik used to shut down the best DEs in football. He was the most dominant until he car wreck. He never really regained his dominance after that. However the likes of Reggie White and Bruce Smith were awfuly quiet whenever they had to face Erik Williams. Amazing those two were two of the best DEs and Sackmasters of all time and this guy shut em down. They are both HOF guys ……….why not he guy that Shut em down?

Williams deserves consideration, but I would not put him in. He was all world, but for only two and a half years. My list includes:

Woodson, (a lock),
Haley, (couldn’t win the S.B. without this guy, at least the early ones),
Johnston (the best FB in the game from ’90 through ’96),
Allen, (another lock),
Novacek (plan B guy started the rebuilding. He had 7 strong years)

On the fence:
Deion (an elite Cowboy long enough?)
Tolbert (good, but not great. Is that good enough?)
Tuinei and Newton (I rank Tui first in this duo but their off-field
                             problems will probably sink them. Tuinei was
                              one of the most beloved in the locker room.)

how many games did Deion actually play for us? No ring for D.

He is a HOF but his best years were wasted in Hotlanta.

O.K. its fair to say a bias against the Cowboys exists, but does a bias here for the Cowboys exists? Novacheck, while being a great TE, didn’t do more for the Cowboys than Mark Bavaro did for the Giants. Dallas had a great offensive line, probably the best to ever play together, but only a couple have Hall credintials. Erik Williams was hands down the best offensive lineman I have ever seen play, but his dominance was short lived. Plenty of safeties who played before Woodson were intimidating hitters, and they haven’t gotten a ticket to Canton. No safety in the Hall has less than 45 INTs, so I doubt Woodson’s 23 make the cut.

Charles Hailey was the “missing piece” to Dallas’ dynasty. It could be argued that what he brought to the defense, with his pass rushing skills, was more vital than any of the tripletts contribution. He won a couple more S.B. rings while in San Fran, before he came to Big D. Hailey will be the lone representative for a great Dallas defenses of the 90s. (Unless you count Deion)

Larry Allen is the 4th and last HOF selection on the offensive side.

Leon Lett and Erik Williams had Hall of Fame seasons in Dallas, but injuries and off the field problems led to a decline in the level of their play. Both were shoe ins if they played at the same level they exhibitted early in their careers.

So the number is 5 … Larry Allen, Michael Irvin, Emmitt Smith, Troy Aikman, and Charles Hailey.

i thought we were talking Ring of Honor……….

I think Haley should get in both Ring and Hall. How many Super Bowl Rings does a guy have to have? He was here for the entire Super Bowl run. Also it was a rather quiet time for a guy that left SF as a HOT HEAD. I don’t remember hearing a peep out of Charles other than seeing him rush the passer. He lives or visits VA frequently. I even hear he makes the rounds at JMU football games and signs autographs and jokes around with folks.

Darren Woodson? If ever the case was made look at last years collapse without him. I think Darren is a Ring Guy, not sure about HOF but his tackles and play were as good as any in the league. Even when we were declining we managed some pretty good defensive years. Even under Campo, and a lot of that is because of Darren Woodson and Dexter Coakley………Ellis too. I mean when you look at the team over the last decade since the bowls……..you gotta say Coakley, Woody and Ellis. I have a hard time even naming our cornerbacks after Deion and Smith were gone.

Deion came later. After Troy Aikman was tired of playing against him in SF. It was a twofer…….get Deion out of SF and put a Star on his helmet remember the Troy to Deion thing that never really happened all that much. Aikman said he could throw the ball as far as he wanted and Deion was the only guy on the team that could get to it. So he has one Super Bowl with a team that had already won 2 without him. I think Deion was the best and possibly only shut down corner in Atlanta. When Healthy he was great for Dallas and SF…but for how many games……..sorry D no Ring for thee………Danny boy overpaid in DC…….but I see him as HOF not Ring of Honor……..Kevin Smith is more deserving than Deion. But I am not sure I would induct Smith. You know looking back we went through a lot of different guys in the secondary and linbacking corp. We eventually lost our great rotation in the front 4 too but managed to keep a few.

The Big Cat gets honorable mention for the Ice Bowl on Turkey Day when he gave Miami another shot at a FG that beat us……….and the TD run that Beebe stopped……….Leon was great, but man he managed two of the biggest blunders I remember in that run of Super Bowls. Set up a video screen with those two plays at the new stadium……at least we get some laughs………then show some of his sacks and pressures………guy was incredible for what round was he anyway. Some college nobody ever heard of. Well worth the pick. Had he stayed clean, and healthy who knows where he would rank, at any rate he was a heck of a guy for a few years……..you could line up anywhere……..

Erik Willams and Drew Pearsons careers were both hampered by car accidents. Drew retired. Erik was never quite the same. How do you rate that…….I mean Gale Sayers is in the HOF how long did he play?

My bad Jon, you are right. I read Rob’s comment about the Hall, and I thought he was saying that all the players he listed he wishes would get inducted into the Hall. Even still, have to be careful we don’t go inducting every pro bowl player into the Ring of Honor … because then it looses its meaning. …

Woodson is still a question in my book. Only because his best years came after 91 and 92, and these teams were the best that dynasty had to offer. Novacheck, Lett, and Erik Williams were bigger contributors during the glory of 3 Super Bowl Championship teams. Williams dominated during that 4 year run, and in my opinion has the best arguement. I would induct the latter 3 and leave Woody out … sorry.

are super bowls are only criteria? I mean Woody was there………and contributed. The secondary certainly made plays.

How man Safeties lead their team in tackles?

I am not sure about it, but I certainly saw the drop off last year without him. If he is on the field, our CB situation ain’t as bad and our hard hitting Roy is able to be himself. I mean we would have struggled at corner no matter who the Saftey was, but I sure would have liked Woody back there for another year.

You know another guy that unless I am wrong never won a bowl(with the Boys), but was a heck of a football and a Cowboy was Everson Walls.

Oh well hard to say……….there was an interesting article I read that basically said Jerry Jones and Roger Staubach are the big input on the Ring of Honor. I cannot think of a better guy looking over Jerry’s shoulder. You know even though he treated Landy poorly, he has and does realize the history of the organization. Although I have to say letting somebody on the field with a number 33 on their jersey last year was some bonehead equipment managers mistake. That one along with 8, 12, 22, 33, should stay unavailable. Hey might as well let ole 88 be unavailable too……..whether it honors Pearson or Irvin either one is fine by me.

You know I think I mentioned in your post about the HOF for The Blog, that it would help if the Cowboys would honor Aikman, and Irvin. Looks like Jerry got it right this time.

No Jon Super Bowls aren’t the only criteria, but when Dallas was winning SBs Lett, Williams, and Novacheck were household names. Woodson was a sub during their 2nd SB season, and barely played. … and leading your team in tackles as a safety is usually a bad thing. Don’t get me wrong though Super Bowls are huge. Just go ask Dan Marino, and if not convinced then talk to John Elway about what it meant for him and how people look at his career. Woody is a lot like Aneas Williams, he won a SB and was a solid contributor, but he was a very good player for bad teams during the prime of his career.

Darren Woodson is a lock. The all time Cowboy tackler and unquestioned leader on the defensive side for the second half of his career.

Allen is certianly next after he retires.

I would also strongly consider Charles Haley.

Do we all agree that Pearson, Waters and ‘Too Tall’ should be the next inducties?

Woody had the misfortune of starting after our first 2 SB’s- he was only a regular for the last. Its not his fault that his greatness started after the team began to fall. He was at his prime a very good cover FS; and he hit as hard as any SS around. Of how many in thehistory of pro football can the same be said. Sadly, just like too many fixate on sacks when discussing DL’s, toomany fixate on INT’s when discussing Safeties. That will probably keep him out of the HOF. But he CERTAINLY deserves the ring of HONOR.
Erik Williams was flat out the best tackle in football before the accident; yes he deserves it. Lett- that one makes me think some. He was a top DT no doubt about it- but unlike Williams accident he CHOSE to do drugs. NO ROH for him. Tui- yes- he rates it- despite the drugs- since he only did them AFTER he retired. That was pretty much shown in the investigation after his death- and his family and friends agreed. Newton- the same. What he did after he retired should not bear on the ROH. Lett is out because he destroyed his career on drugs.

Does anyone remember that hit woody made in the dallas-GB championship game? The one where he knocked out both the WR and the WR coach. One of my favorite moments ever.

while i agree Tui and Nate had Ring careers…….what is the Ring of Honor. Is it only football? I mean Tui died doing drugs. It is a tough question, I think if they go up a point should be made by the Cowboys about the effect drugs had on Tui. Also Nate should be given time to clean up his act. If he can, then I say he deserves a shot at it.

It is tough, a guy deserves it for his on the field play. However, I think that what a player does off the field does matter also. EXAMPLE………TO is putting up HOF type numbers for a reciever. However, is he HOF material? My answer is NO, the guy is a distraction off the field, is a distraction in the locker room. He has players who cannnot stand him from three organizations………including a couple of QBs……..you know the guys that throw him ball. Yet the guy is drug free, vegetarian freak of nature. Super Bowl rings? How many ya got there TO? How big of an impact is this guy? I don’t know, I think Tui and Nate both deserve Ring and certainly some of these other guys………however do not be surprised if Everybody’s All American Roger Staubach is on the side of off the the field stuff matters………he was around some guys that were great football players but the women, cocaine and rock and roll lifestyle led to early exits and even death.

I think Leon’s contributions were big, but not for long enough and shadowed by some off the field issues. When Healthy and Clean he was awesome…….he rotated in at tackle and DE it did not matter where he lined up he was tough to block.

I think Haley gets in. Some make the arguement that all the other pieces were there. So what, he was the last piece, and he toughed it out through some serios back issues to play hurt and still contribute. I say put Haley up there. If nothing else to remind SF of what they gave up. (Haley had some off the field distractions at SF but was a model citizen in Dallas)

Hi Everybody!

Chica is off the couch and went home.

I still say Herchel Walker belongs in the ring, but revise my position and suggest that the entire management of the Minnesota Vikings deserve to be up there for their contributions to the team – boy did they get taken by J Johnson. You could sort of underscore the Blue ring of honor with a purple ring and the Viking management names.

But seriously, your problem is that the Cowboys were simply great – that was a great team. You just can’t put everybody in the Hall or in the Ring (except Deion – Deion has no business being up there as he was more mercenary than Cowboy). You sort of have the same problem the Yankees have…which, if you think about it…is a good problem to have. Be content with the titles.

And for you history buffs out there – there is a reason why the Vikings are a cursed team. In 1960 they were a part of the AFL original 8, only they betrayed the AFL by jumping ship to the NFL and took the franchise slot earmarked for the City of Houston. The H Walker trade for 3 titles was pre-ordained.

Going back to the “earlier days”. We first need to put Drew Pearson, Ed “Too Tall” Jones, Charlie Waters (wish he and Harris could have gone in together), and Danny White in…yes, DANNY WHITE. He was a better QB and has better numbers than Meridith does, plus he led the Boys to all those NFC Champ. games. Remember, he didn’t give up “the Catch”( or as I call it, “the Crap”) to the 49ers and only a fingertip tackle on Pearson kept him from bringing them back to win that game.

Oh sweet mother of pigskin, I have to step in here – Danny White! Did you not see the look of fear in his eyes every time he stepped on to the field.

Danny White took a championship caliber team and, while he did not perform without talent, could not get them there.

Don Meredith took a team of limited talent, lead them and got them to play out of their minds.

The eyes, man. The eyes along are reason enough to keep him out.

Oiler I love the Minnesota Purple and H Walker Reference. LOL…….you might be right. They took the bait…….all we had to offer and figured Herschel for a return man, a punt return man and a fulltime Running Back. I laughed even harder when Walker returned to play for the Cowboys again after the Super Bowl era was passed.

Not only did we catch fish with that bait, but we got the bait back. Now that is good fishing!!!

How about we put everybody from the teams in the 90s in the ring?? Come on now you can put everybody in there.

Novacek and Haley should be in the Ring. Novacek probably wouldn’t make it to the HOF but he was invaluable to the offense and kept a lot of drives moving. It wasn’t until he left that you knew what he contributed. When he left, or red zone production dropped considerably. he was a great escape valve for Troy. His stats weren’t great(hard to be with emmitt and Irvin around) but thats not his true measure.

Haley (fellow JMU alum) should be in both the HOF and Ring. He made the plays as well as freed others up to make the plays. The first and only(?) player with five superbowl rings.

Others from early generations are deserving as well and should probably go in first but these are my votes from the 90s team.

without a doubt CHARLIE WATERS should be in the ROH.A great player and team player too. One of the best leaders ever on this club.Also has very good stats. Come on Jerry wake up.