Then and Now

What about special teams? Weren’t we struggling with snappers that year? Punter is much better- I’d take McBriar over Gowin anyday.

Cundiff was probably better than whatever we end up with this year.

Sean,

Robinson was there. The snapping was not an issue. The punting was. Gowin played hurt in the second half of the year and was awful.

The coverage teams concern me, but I imagine we saw a lot of guys on the field last night who won’t be covering kicks once the real games start.

Didn’t Robinson blow out his knee when he got here or am I confusing him with someone else?

I think this year’s team is better. RB and defense being the biggest upgrades.

The ’03 defense was good statistically, but got it done with smoke and mirrors.

I basically agree with Rafael here. The offense has a chance to be more than marginally better, and the defense has the potential to be much better than in 2003. Whether this translates into more than a .500 year depends on several factors. For example, how strong are the opposing teams this year? Last year’s records may not be true indicators of how good/bad each team is. Injuries are always a factor. Can the Cowboys stay healthy all year? Will Dallas find a good kicker? I don’t think Cortez is necessarily the answer.

I looked it up and it was 2002 when Robinson went down so snapper will be a push if we keep Robinson.

A-Train would be a servicable backup but keeping him on reduces the effectiveness of our ST play; which is also a concern of mine after the pre-season.

Only thing holding us back from a solid 10-6 is our special teams. Even if we never played our ‘Best’ unit in the preseason, we did play guys that will get in during the season, and they did not look good.

WR is a push because KJ will be better then galloway but AB was better then Crayton right now.
OLine is better then 2003 but Flo did have his best stuff that year.
QB is a push right now QC did win games that year until Bledsoe shows something its a push.
RB as a whole way better now.
DB better by a little this year. They didn’t give up much in 2003.
LB right now 03 was better Coakley was a pro bowler and Singleton was better then. This will change once Ware get 10 plus sacks.
D line way better this year.
This all can change but the end of the year
ST was better then. One thing 03 had was the surprise factor.

I think Anthony Thomas stays.

Last night’s game was the first I had seen from Thomas where he did things to gain extra yardage. Previously, he had made some nice runs, but they were through holes that even I could have navigated successfully. Then he would go down at first contact. But last night, he made some nice cuts, dragged some defenders with him, and even got to the outside on one play. He was also very good, coming out of the backfield. In other words, he did the things we expected from him when we brought him in.

I had previously suggested that Thomas might be a candidate for a waiver-wire replacement. I no longer feel that way.

By the way, evidently Parcells has similar thoughts. In today’s press conference, Parcells said that Thomas would come in, if Jones were to get hurt.

James
I would try to trade A-train.

Rafael, you are a man/fan of great football wisdom. But are our WRs really better? KJ is not the player he once was. Galloway may have been brittle, but when healthy he was very good. TG is two years older, and likely more fragile. Doubtful he’ll play 16 games. Bryant looked like an emerging stud in ’03. We have no idea what to really expect from Crayton once the real season starts and he gets bumped, covered by faster, stronger guys, and hit hard after catches.

On O-Line, Adams seems to have regressed a bit, LA is older (though looking great so far), and Petitti is a rookie who will surely make some significant mistakes.

Even so, the line as a whole may still be better, but Quincy was a professional scrambler. Covered up for alot of O-Line mistakes with his feet. Even rushed for a number of 1st downs. Bledsoe has a decent feel for the pocket, but is otherwise slow. Much better passer, but our O-Line better be much sturdier at pass protection than 2003.

As for defense, come on. That year may have been smoke and mirrors, but it still worked exceedingly well. That’s a push at worst vs. this year despite the apparent improvements in talent. And Newman still looks beatable long (like last night).

And if ST coverage doesn’t improve markedly, then ST will be much worse than 2003. That would be murder to BP’s conservative style.

So if I’m an opposing head coach, I test this young 3-4 with the run, then throw long TD passes to Newman’s man. I put 8 in the box on defense and blitz every passing down. Hmmm. Sounds like Philly. @#$%!

Couldn’t the A-train play FB.

Remnant
Crayton played against 1st string D, so what he did is what he did.

Matt’
A-Train is too small and does not block well enough to play FB.

Overall we are better at every position, but a lot greener. As I said before, ST kick coverage is concerning me greatly. Will be our Achilles if not improved.

My Bad. We are better at every position except FS. (Woodson)

One thing that people often overlook is that our 2003 defense had good numbers because other teams knew that they didn’t have to score much to beat us. That defense didn’t do much to terrorize the other team. Turnovers and sacks were minimal at best.

This version of the defense has shown more aptitude to terrorize the other team, to create turnovers, to create yardage losses. They may give up more big yards due to youth and mistakes, but they will make up for that easily with making the other team to make mistakes too.

I know that most of you aren’t enamoured with Bledsoe, but he is such a huge improvement over QC. He will make this offense look much better. Crayton will be better than AB because he runs better routes. He may not be as athletic but he shows that technique is just as important.

This is a much more improved team particularly because of depth.

you cant trade A-train at this point as he’s the only real backup with experience, Barber hasn’t been on the field enough and thompson is too green.

Derrick-BP said in the press conf today that Thomas is the backup for Jones.

AW,

I’ll wait to see Crayton in the regular season before I anoint him. Ditto Petitti. Both look good now, but the defense gets tougher in the regular season.

Calling all kickers!!! Tyler Jones, Chandler, Javier Patilla, Schism all get to kick a few in the next few days. That is a scary area right now. I guess that is the big no confidence vote from BP to Cortez.

Remnant-did you see my response to your criticism of Ware not containing?

Did anyone notice that Kalen Thornton did not play. Question is: Did Bp bench him because he’s seen enough and will cut him or was he giving more time to Ogbogu for evaluation of him or to showcase Ogbogu to another team for a trade?

I cannot find the article I pulled it out of now, but I read today of someone quoting a writer named Fisher who quotes a source in the Cowboy orginization as saying that Henson’s days are numbered. BP wants to bring in a veteran backup and is through with Drew.

I say put Drew on the PS and send him to Europe next year. If we lose him so what? If he develops into someone that can compete for the team next year thats great. I wonder who BP would have come in to be the 3rd QB.

Props, Kevin…you’ve got it right.

A player-by-player comparison does not do the units justice, albeit player for player this team is way more talented…at every position save Woody. This is a deeper, more athletic, and filled with playmakers. 9 Pro-Bowl players…9. ’03 unit had 4.

The units as a whole have to be compared with their phases.

Offense…05 will have a better passing game. Period. Without question. Better protection, better running-game setup, more accurate, hugely improved deep game, wide out routes (Q had a rag arm)…in every conceivable measure.

The run game is a joke to compare. Next

Game management and reduced negative plays…Q had a rag head.

This is a much improved (vastly) unit.

Defense: Come on now. Think back…you remember a defense that couldn’t hold a freakin’ fourth quarter lead to any good team. Fine for 3 qtrs, but just couldn’t make the last play. That was ‘03. And Kevin’s absolutely correct…teams could play conservatively ‘cause they knew we couldn’t score. Statistics lie.

This team is so much improved at every level. Secondary…real solid. Best since we lost Deion. Shut down. Now add the pressure.

Have you seen Ware? This guy is something special. You see it. Everyone’s seen it. Dr. Z has us ranked 4th in the NFC. Why? My gosh, we’ve got three man-child’s out there. Spears, Canty and Ware are going to remind everyone of Doomsday.

This team will rival Baltimore and Pittsburgh by week 8. Mark my words, this is the start of a very long and enjoyable ride.

I haven’t been this excited about a season since ’91.

Sean,

Thanks, saw your note and don’t disagree. Ware didn’t cause all of the gains Jax had last night by any stretch, but he has blown containment at least once in each game, including last night. Once sounds small, but that is his primary job when their RB has the ball. And against quality RBs, that can mean a TD…like we saw from JJ last week when he hit the outside.

I love how great Ware looks overall, but he is so undisciplined and wild out there. Great for pass-rushing, but not so good for run defense. I’m sure he’ll get better, but I admit to being a little concerned now. And I think the lack of discipline is what keep Bill calling Ware a traffic cop, head on a swivel, not in Canton yet, causing two of those big gains last night, etc.

Still, give me one Ware over a dozen Ekubans any day!

Here is my final 53 man roster for the upcoming season.

What do you guys think and what changes would you make.

Bledsoe-Romo-Henson

Polite

J.Jones-A-train-Barber-Thompson

K.Johnson-Crayton-Crowder

Glenn-(Morgan cut if price is signed)

Witten-Campbell-pierce-Robinson

Adams-Vollers

Allen-Peterman

A.Johnson-Gurode

Rivera-Walter

Pettiti-Tucker

Ellis-Canty-Ratliff

Ferguson-Glover

Spears-Coleman

Ware-K.Thornton

Nguyen-Fowler

James-Shanle

Burnett-Singleton

Newman-Glenn-N.Jones

Henry-Reeves

Davis-Coady

R.Williams-Scott (Beriault-surgery,IR)

McBriar

Cortez (for now until a replacement is found)

Practice squad

Ryan-Van Hoy-Johnson-Rector-tarullo-Thorton-two from other team cuts.

Remnant-He has also screwed up his pass coverage assignments at least once in every game. I’m confident he’ll overcome that for the most part with time.

Sean,

Agreed again. He’s got great ability, just raw in the 3-4 OLB. Probably be very good eventually.

Mainly just pointing out that this is still not a Super Bowl team (this year) but looks very promising for the first time in years. So I want them to keep and develop the guys that will be here for the next three years, when they MAY be SB-bound. So I hope they drop Price and A-Train, then get our young receivers more involved as the year progresses. Playoffs are fun and all, but I want real chances at another Super Bowl in my lifetime!

Derrick-The only difference I have is Noll instead of Walter. I don’t have a strong feeling for Walter but Noll looked OK last year while filling in.

 I strongly believe that Beriault is going to IR because of the tone in BP’s voice when asked about today “I haven’t talked to the player yet”. If Beriault was safe no need to talk to him. I’m sure BP can convince Beriault to get healthy on IR and compete full strength next year.

Remnant- This will be a much more mature team after the half-way point of the season. The rookies will not be as exposed. If we haven’t dug too deep a hole early in the season, I don’t see why we couldn’t be a strong playoff team by Dec (barring injury of course).

I know your push back is probably that even though they are 1/2 a season vets at that point they will get that rookie fatigue in Dec. Maybe.

Just read a couple of articles on the ‘Boys. Dr. Z’s prediction was very foretelling. Arazi’s article on SI is really optimistic. And Peter King wrote a MMQB on the 22nd that cut through the training camp stuff very well.

They’re really intriqued.

SI is now a believer. I say we make the NFC Championsip game.

Derrick,
I would keep Copper over Morgan and would not sign Price unless the medical and cap issues are settled. Either way Morgan is gone on my roster.

I would not keep Tucker. Only 9 OL.

With the roster spot from Tucker I keep Carson at DT.

I would keep Thornton on the 53 at CB and put N. Jones on PS.

I would add Condo to the PS leaving 1 spot for other teams cuts.

Good list Derrick, in fact every list I have seen on this Blog has some good though behind it. Problem is we’ll all probably be wrong in the end. No shame. TunaMan will have his reasons for HIS final list.

Tucker. We only have 4 OT as it is.

I dont see how we dont keep Tucker, we only have 4 OT as it is.

sean made a very good point about how this team will take the first 8 games to mature. I agree, after the bye week-WATCH OUT! It is interesting that I made aprediction about Davis at FS taking over for Reese at FS after the bye week. Boy was I wrong on both. Davis is starting now and Reese is long gone.

Fighter15,

NFC Championship game?!! Wow. Don’t know about that, but I hope you’re right, dude…

I still just don’t know if we can light it up with the passing game.

I would say from my observations, that I will lend some credence to those who say that Bledsoe takes a while to warm. I think our passing game will be OK.

Our passing game only has to be good enough to make them pay if they stack the box. I think it will be better than that.

Our running game will be fine against regular fronts and look out if we get a passing game going. We could rush for a couple hundred yards a game.

Remmant,

I do think the WRs are better. That doesn’t mean I think they are great, just better. Keyshawn played last year without Glenn for ten, eleven? games and with torn cartilage in a knee for much of the second half and was still getting open. Had some nice catches in the Seattle game over some decent corners. This year’s version will be older but healthy, and should have more help. That’s better than Galloway in any incarnation who is every bit as prone to breakdowns as Glenn and is, ahem, Quincy Morganesque when it comes to running routes inside.

Glenn looks really good to me. I think the Dallas corners are pretty good and none of them could cover him in camp. I don’t see any dropoff from ’03 there.

Crayton vs. Bryant. Well, let’s not forget that Bryant couldn’t crack the starting lineup in ‘03 because his route discipline was so bad. You are correct, Crayton hasn’t proven anything yet, and may disappear once the season starts. OTOH, he could continue what he saw, in which case he’ll be challenging Keyshawn before the year is over. I’ll give an edge to the ’03 team there, but not a great one.

I understand the frustration with Drew Henson, but the suggestion that we place him on the practice squad is not a real option. You do not place players on the practice squad. You release the player and then after they clear waivers, by mutual consent you sign them to your practice squad.

If Dallas releases Drew then they will just be admitting they made a mistake and moving on. All but a small portion of his next four years of salary is guaranteed. That means if they release him, not only does the prorated signing bonus accelerate onto the Cap; but it also means that Jerry Jones has to pay Drew all of the guaranteed salary. Once he is released he is a free agent and if he is practice squad eligible he would have minimal motivation to resign with the Cowboys.

Remember, this guy is not hurting for cash. He received over 10 million dollars from the Yankees before he got his contract with the Cowboys. If he still wanted to try and make the league he could shop and find the circumstance that gives him the best chance to make in NFL. I do not know where the best circumstance would be, but it would not be on the Dallas practice squad after the team made the decision to release him.

Remnant:
Look throughout the league, every team has from 3 to 4 WR’s that can come in to a game and look good, now Dallas, as of right now, they have KJ and Glenn as the starters, and while I’m confident that they will remain healthy the whole season, I wouldn’t play them for every play, as Parcells has said 30 year veterans aren’t supposed to stay on the field for every play but he will play them if he has to, so that leaves us with what’s behind them, Crayton’s a keeper, Morgan isn’t he made 2 though catches as we all heard yesterday but evidence of previous games says that if he feels the Safety or corner is close then his hands turn to rock, Crowder looked better in the past 3 games at ST’s and can catch the rock, Copper is a ST player that hasn’t progressed as receiver, and that’s all… I don’t see the youngsters you talk about, they need another receiver to give rest to the 2 veterans, just like Glover and Ellis, they will come off the field for the 30% of plays he wishes his veterans to rest, so who takes their charges?

This makes the Price sound right.

I am really happy with the way we are running the ball. Has been many a year since a team’ offensive prowess was running it down the opponents throat.

Trey-That slot that he’s taking up on the roster is is worth more than the $ left on his contract. I haven’t been able to get a hard number of how much that is, I’ve seen the $3.5 mm thrown around but was that the whole contract or the prorated hit we would take? I seem to remember BP or was it Jerry saying your better off emptying the cupboard instead of hoping for the circumstance to change(Rogers). They cut him and moved on. I really don’t see any NFL teams offering Henson an opportunity to make them look foolish. Remember how well Q Carter did when he got his next chance.

Sean:
That’s a bad comparison, while Rogers made something that didn’t looked good (He could’ve played with the knee condition, just didn’t wanted to feel the pain), Henson changed his mechanics and, as far as what we have heard, hasn’t taken a bad stance on him being labeled as the 3rd QB behind Romo, so I wouldn’t say that he’s on the same page as Rogers. I’m on the another year bandwagon, he could show something with a year of work with his new mechanics.

Chandus:
What is the value to this season for keeping him on the roster? Do you see him going in if Bledsoe and Romo go down? We’d have to pick someone up to carry us anyway. I say we go with 2 qb’s and if they both get hurt we can either use Crayton or direct snap to Jones to get us out of a game. Anybody buying that? I’m not either but I really can’t see Henson seeing the field this year.

Chandus are you sending him to Europe this year?

only dropoff i see is at FS. i think we re better at every position now.

I can’t see what BP is going to accomplish with these 4 kickers he brought in. None of them can be evaluated under game conditions. I say stick with Cortez.

He’s got tape of the kickers in games. Same thing he has on Cortez.

WR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! now i just dont see where this puts crayton cuz he rightfully got the thrid spot, and i think he needs to play cuz he just has way too much ptential and room to grow right now.. i love price i think we should sign him.. but my main concern is with bledsoe and johnsons timing.. i mean he has caught two passes this pre season. thats not what i want out of my possession WR, and glenn is our deep threat.. i dunno i think we might have to move on with the new and possibly get rid of some of the old.. let crayton (26) and price (28) come and be the guys, and have glenn or johnson be the number one.. heres how i see it.. glenn oir johnson in the number one spot, and then we have price as a number two (cuz after all thats what he doest best.. the man had his best seasons as a number two not a number one.) and then crayton on number three so he can still get in there alot. and then possibly see what you can get from one of the other Vets. (keyshawn or Terry) possibly in a trade or something. but i do say we should keep one around.

scrappy
your number 1 guy has to be able to get you the first downs, kj can go over the middle so hes it your 2nd is the field stretcher which is glenn. crayton will take over kj’s spot in a year or 2. if we get price then he can spell glenn in a couple years. draft a couple wr then we will be set in that position, if it works out that way.

Okay…..cut deadline is Saturday at 5 PM…..16 players have to go….anyone got their lists ready?

Scrappy:
The reason for which I think we didn’t saw much out of KJ has more to do with Parcells wanting to see more from the other positions, as far as I saw and have read, he is on and off the field for as long the first unit stays on the field, often leaving his spot for Morgan. I don’t think that the timing with KJ is a big factor, you only need to know to throw high in certain time somwhere on the field and he will make the damn catch.

Sean:
Mention 1 team that has a better 3rd QB on the roster, I’m not saying that Henson is good, I’m just saying that every 3rd QB or is a project or a veteran who doesn’t have much else on the tank. Henson is a 3rd round project, give him some time, he might give something in return and if he doesn’t, well that was a 3rd rounder, we already gave up on a 2nd of last year.

Chandus: I’m not really that down on Henson but where do you draw the line on developing these guys. Henson will only get better with playing time. Send him to Europe so he can get some seasoning and get use to playing ball at any level. I don’t see where throwing 6,000 passes this off season has done anything for him but put him another year removed from playing in college. I like him as a guy and would love it if he would develop into a player that can contribute but I’m not seeing any movement. Maybe BP is and that is the only thing that will keep him around.

It takes a QB four years to develop…minimum

In the third year, they’ll show the potential, or struggle as a foreshadowing of bad things to come.

It’s a pretty solid timeline. Bill uses the third year for all picks to show ’em, or he shows ’em the door. QBs take a little longer, but Bill will probably stick with the 3rd year mark.

This is Henson’s 2nd year. He’ll get the time to develop. Plus, he now has a mentor in Bledsoe.

Next year will be a full blown competition. It’ll be an either/or situation. Romo or Henson. And the 2nd guy must make a strong challenge to Bledsoe…or they’ll look in another direction.

Sean,

When Troy Aikman retired, the Cowboys were belabored for not having a young prospect already on the roster, who might develop into Troy’s replacement. They had Cunningham and Garrett, neither of whom were young, nor was either a reasonable candidate for taking over as starting quarterback.

That is what the 3rd QB slot is for — someone to develop, in case your starting QB leaves, for whatever reason — retirement, career-ending injury, free agency, sucks … whatever.

I think you could look at every #3 QB in the league and make the case that not only is he not ready to start, but there are other players in free agency who could contribute more to his team for that season.

Yes, there will be players who will be cut from this team tomorrow who could make a greater impact this year than Drew Henson. That is not the point. The position is so important, and it usually takes so long to get one ready to start, that a team cannot afford to get rid of a quarterback who has ANY chance of turning into a franchise quarterback. Not when they don’t have a better option for that development.

Yes, if Bledsoe goes down for a long stretch, they will not want to depend on Henson to backup Romo. They might well place Bledsoe on IR and bring in another QB, to either start or backup Romo. But there is no reason to assume now that such a disaster will happen. And, I believe that Romo can fill in for any short-term problem, giving the team time to bring in someone else and get him up to speed, if they have to.

Sean:
I get your points, and he threw the 6000 passes to get himself comfortable with his new mechanics, I can believe that he has been focused on his mechanics removing some focus from the other moving parts of being a professional QB, time is the essence, let’s wait another year for that Parcells rule of show me something by your 3rd year and we can part ways with a clean conscience.

Not sure of everyone who is still on the team but I would cut:

- John Condo
- Erik Bickerstaff
- Leo Carson
- Terrance Copper
- Woody Dantzler
- Nate Jones (PS)
- Nick Novak
- Ben Noll (PS)
- Keylon Kincade
- Keith ONeil (PS)
- Eric Ogbugo
- Sean Ryan (PS)
- Matt Tarullo (PS)
- Kurt Vollers
- Tony Curtis
Justin Beirult on the IR
*Morgan cut if Price signed

And here’s my 53 man roster:
Version 4.0

3 QB’s (Bledsoe, Romo and Henson)

4 RB’s (JuiceJ, A-Train, Thompson and Barber)

Thomas makes the team for at least the first half of the season, if some team becomes desperate by injuries on their carriers departament and Thompson and Barber continue to develop we might part ways for a decent exchange. No Fullbacks, that will be new in Dallas.

5 WR’s (Glenn, Key, Crayton, Morgan/Price and Crowder)

I don’t know if Copper can make the PS, I’ve heard that to make the PS the player needs to play less than x games and he played last year. Crowder makes the team because he made plays and is the gunner that could make us forget Davis.

4 TE’s (Witten, Campbell, Pierce and Robinson)

Lot’s of two TE sets, TE’s on the roster.

9 OL’s (Adams, L.A., Johnson, Rivera, Peterman, Gurode, Vollers, Petitti and Tucker)

Petitti did looked a little lost in those blitzes, but that’s understandable, he hadn’t seen those at the speed they were, I think he will learn the lesson. Tucker’s making the team, because I believe Parcells will figure a rotation with them, just like the one between Johnson and Gurode.

8 DL’s (Ellis, Glover, Ferguson, Spears, Ratliff, Canty, Coleman and Carson)

Wannabe Pepper to the PS. I think that 8 DL’s are what this team needs if they really want to show all the different schemes Parcells wants them to.

8 LB’s (Nguyen, Burnett, Singleton, Ware, Shanle, Fowler, O’Neil and Ogbogu)

Send James packing, the guy has been a liability covering for the past 3 years, I don’t think that he will ever learn. And add O’Neil, he has the ST play on his favor. Kalen Thornton to IR after having his knee through the scope. Ogbogu makes the team as a speed rusher specialist.

6 CB’s (T-New, Henry, Glenn, Reeves, Thornton and Jones)

I like this depth, Jones and Reeves are strong ST’s players, while Thornton oscilates from average to good in there.

4 S’s (Roy, Davis, Scott and Coady)

Beriault future’s no longer in question, I see a scalpel on his way to Football for next year. That leaves the 4 guys I mention, the 53 roster cuts could bring new faces, but guessing those are like guessing the lotto.

1 K (Cortez)
1 P (McBriar)

Cortez for now, Parcells will review film of cutted players, I can see Parcells leaving a roster spot for a kicker to come and compete with Cortez, the loser could leave the roster for Wannabe Pepper, if he makes the PS. Thunderfoot is as sure a thing as Aikman was after 92.

Lou:
I think that Nate Jones and Sean Ryan can’t make the PS, they played a lot of games last year, and you can’t make the PS if you have played some there.
And O’Neal can’t too, it’s his 4th year on the league, that’s another policy, I seem to recall.

How do I join in the conversation? I just found this sight today and I am not sure that I understand protocall. Do I just join in or what? I live in H-Town but grew up in Big D. I am a die hard Cowboys fan and I am totally stoked that I found a site full of rabid fans.

Give me the heads up please.

Go Cowboys!!!

Just start yaking Steve,,,,,,

Hey thanks. I unfortunately was out of Texas last night (up north) and had to watch the NFL channel version of ADD football and therefore missed most of the defensive plays but was blown away by Spears overall strength. I don’t know what this defense will be called but my suggestion would be DOOM II or the BLUE WALL.

It a league of parity (which is good and also effective) this year could realistically be the second horizon under Jones. I am sure that all of you feel the same way.

I have now realized that Parcells is a f’n football genious. He’s picke3d his own guys and his own players. Does everyone here realize that we basically picked up four first rounders by trading down last year. Anyone else have a hard about that? Ware, Spears, Burnett and Canty. Wholly shoot, we might win it all this year and the great part about that is that Jerry remember his f up whedn he fires JJ. We could have won 5 6 in a row if they could have just put the egos away.

Cowboys make offer to Price and his agent rejects offer…..

I agree Steve,we definately picked up some “playmakers” as Bill calls them….

Welcome Steve.

Well then I guess the price was not right. As our friend Bob Barker may say!

Playmakers yeah, more like franchise changers. Having watched our new guys play…Is there any doubt that Greg Ellis and Ekuban were complete f-n busts. Take the B-shit out of your responses.

Today is roster cut down day. I believe the Drew Henson will be on the roster at the end of the day while 16 other players are cut. That said…my arguement was that practice squad was not a real option. Cutting their loses and buying a ne QB might be a realisitic option, but I do think it is going to happen.

I think Fighter is dead on about the Henson situation. We don’t agree on everything, but I couldn’t have said it better. That’s exactly how I see it. The guy will get the time he needs to develop because he doesn’t cost them a lot of money, UNLESS they cut him. Then he becomes an expensive bust. If they give him another year, and he makes the turn, then they’ve made a brilliant move, and nobody even remembers the first couple of years. Remember, Roger Staubach took 3 years to get it going, and look what he accompished. Now, I am not saying Henson will be Staubach, but no one saw Staubach becoming Staubach when he was in his second year either.

Fighter15: I would like to see a list of great or even serviceable QB’s that took 3 years to get on the field. Granted they all get better and seem to reach their highest level of play at 4 years but it doesn’t take them 4 yrs to see the field and certainly not 3 years to be the backup to the backup until we could find someone to finish the season. This is his 2nd year and he needs to show something other wise you would have to agree that he’s a bad investment both from a financial standpoint and taking up the roster spot.

Chandus: What team has a worse 3rd QB than us is a better question. They are all of low value and can easily replaced with an out of work vet for emergency situations.

Mr. Bill: Aikman was retired suddenly and prematurely according to Jerry’s plan. We were in a bad situation because of salary cap hell from trying to keep a limping/aging team in contention. Jason Garrett was a great 3rd QB where he developed behind Burlein and Aikman to be a dependable backup(remember his game against Green Bay in a shoot-out). Thats about the only success story I can think of. I quess I am questioning the big picture strategy of the 3rd QB. What if you took that slot each year and kept an up and comer that you otherwise would have let go. This year that could be Kalen Thornton, Thomas Johnson just from our team, let alone what will be released from rosters all across the NFL (WR?). Maybe every 3-4 years you hit a gem by churning that slot instead of the negligable returns of a 3rd QB. That makes it much easier when you do get your franchise guy (Roethlisburger) to plug him in to a winning team taking some of the pressure off him.

All that being said, I don’t know if I would have the fuzzy nuts to do it if I was a GM. I just wanted to question the paradigm of the 3rd QB.

2 recent examples of late developing QB’s –
 - Jake Delhomme (5th year after being drafted to hitting good numbers – although still much to prove, and we almost had him….)
 - Kurt Warner (5th year – from bagging groceries to NFL Best, although for a short period).
 - Trent Green (5th year too, hmmm maybe there is something about year 5…)
It seems like at some point the bulb just goes off, and suddenly they can play.

If we are building a dynasty, QB is the one position that worries me, even if it is a defense-based dynasty. Even the Ravens defence hasn’t managed more than 1 SB without a strong QB….

Actually, Sean, that’s pretty easy.

Aikman, drafted in ’89, led a resurgent team in ’91 to the playoffs (year 3), where he started to show something and won it all in year 4.

Steve Young, year 4 saw him take over for Montana, when he got hurt, after 1 non-descript USFL year and 2 pretty bad years in Tampa.

Terry Bradshaw (4), Montana (3), Staubach as mentioned above, Culpepper and McNabb all broke out in year three and became winners in year 4, and the list goes on.

In fact, the list of instant stars is much easier…Marino and …

Boy from Oz:

Delhomme-is a great example of a bubble player made good. He was also playing in 1999 in Europe (World bowl Champs if I remember right) and then moved up the roster by way of injured starters to beat us in New Orleans in Dec. I liked him a lot in that game. He also supports my argument that you can find these guys on the market at a reasonable price. What did Carolina give to sign him? Nothing to New Orleans, just the contract to Delhomme. So in support of my argument New Orleans wasted that roster spot for what year or two. I know he was off and on the roster/practice squad.

Warner-Played ball in the arena league and Europe. Again a guy that could have been picked up in free agency.

Green-Doesn’t really fit adescription of what turned it on for him. He got cut by a Canadian team. Again someone you could’ve picked up at the right time cheap.

All these cases buttress my point. The teams that invested the 3rd QB spot are not the ones that reaped the benefits. The one thing these guys all had was drive to play the game at what ever level they could, continuously improving their game, not taking time off to play another sport. Thats the drive that propelled them to the level they are at. I guess another thing is that they don’t measure that well in height. Aren’t all these guys about 6’2"? Too short to be “the Guy”.

Off Topic: are you from KS, Aussie or prison?

F-15: I’m not talking about 1st or 2nds developing. My point is the investment in 3rd QB doesn’t pay a dividend for those investing. I still haven’t seen an example of a team investing 3-4 years in 3rd QB that developed into a player for them.

Farve was another cast off that took time and another team to find the right place to develop.

Hello. My friend told me about your web blog. How do I join in the conversation?

Sean,

It paid off for the Packers. Just not in the way expected.

When Ron Wolf was GM, he always had a developmental player as his #3 behind Favre. Of course, Favre has lasted forever, so there was no place for those QBs to go, once they were developed. Simple solution. QB is the one position that still commands value in the trade market. So, Wolf would trade the developed QB away for high draft picks, and go get another guy to develop.

By the way, Chad Pennington hardly saw the field his first two seasons. Henson threw more passes in his first year than Pennington did in his first, and almost as many as Pennington did in his second. Pennington was third-string behind Testaverde and Lucas in 2000.

I might also note that Tom Brady was FOURTH-string, behind Bledsoe, John Friesz, and Michael Bishop in 2000, and only threw 3 passes all that year.

EVERY team tries to develop through the 3rd QB…but like most QB prospects, most don’t make it.

I did a search and found an interesting article.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2002/qbhistoricalanalysis.html

It is basically a look at the difficulty and different methods used by teams to develop QBs. Not much of a conclusion, other that TB & Seattle suck at developing ’em…which is not a real stretch.

The article also shows the real problem with drafting a QB in the first two rounds. Only 9 of the 32 starters in ‘02 were from those rounds…mmmm Considering the number of QBs drafted in the past 15 years in the 1st round, there’s no guarantee and poor past results.

The best, as Mr. Bill points out is GB, which develop 4th and 5th round picks into serviceable QBs (your good measure). They just play on different teams now.

Now, having said all that, the great QBs come from the top of the draft. We’ve got a top-level talent that would have been drafted in the top 10 for a bargain 3rd rounder. He just needs some time to reaclimate himself to football.

Kinda like another guy out four years before serving as a backup for two or three years…Roger Staubach. Patience is a virtue.

Patrick,
Just jump and be prepared to have a thick skin.

Just jump in that is.

Boy that’s good wine. WAHAHAHAHA!

A little more 411 on QB development

Since ’91, over 100 QBs have been drafted, 30 in the first round. Of those 30, only 8 made the Pro Bowl, three of which are no longer in the league, two of those are now backups (Brunnell & Dilfer).

The number of QBs that developed from the also-rans is even fewer, but the names are interesting…
Favre (another example I should have used before, developing in Year 3+)
Brady
Trent Green
Neil O’Donell
Brian Greise
Jake Plummer
Matt Hasselbeck
Brad Johnson

All of these players were drafted in Rounds 2-8 (Johnson), most around the fourth. Each took a developmental role behind an established starter (Except Plummer, but I contend that impeded his progress, which started to develop in Denver in year…oh, yeah, 4!).

Now, there are 50 examples of pure busts.

Henson will be #53, and will be kept inactivated all year, barring injuries to Bledsoe or Romo. The rules even let an inactive QB come into the game in such emergencies (both #1 and #2 go down during the game), so he would be cheap to keep, since only 45 can be active per game. This saves one position, keeps more others active, and lets him develop, if he can.

Bryant was an undisciplined talent who did not fit here. I hope he does well elsewhere—I hold no grudges—but Crayton has already shown me a lot more consistency than Bryant ever did. Bryant had, what—one catch against NY?—to show for his time in Dallas. Let’s quit beating that drum. The problem may be that he never should have been drafted to begin with, but with QBs and WRs, teams take flyers on talented players all the time that do not pan out, need time, need another system, etc.

This is a far better team than the 93 bunch, although there will be growing pains. The LBs still give me concern, and both backups at safety look pretty weak. I would feel more comfortable if Beriault were able to play this year, but that looks like an increasingly lost cause. Let’s hope Williams and Davis stay healthy.

Offense will be fine. The team will pound the ball, run play action, and control the clock 35-40 minutes per game. That should win 10, and get back to the playoffs, unless the special teams blow it.

Bert,
Amen to pretty much all of that.

Five bucks says that Jerry drafts Reggi McNeal next year in the second round to become the future of the franchise.

Julius, my five says Jerry will not do the drafting next year, no matter what he says to the TV cameras. He is a smart man, and has learned from both his own mistakes and Robert Kraft’s. If McNeil is taken, it will have little or nothing to do with Jerry’s input, unless he wants to hire another coach and go back to losing.

Sean:

Aussie from Melbourne, no prison time (yet). Live probably 15 mins away from where Mat McBriar came from – glad to see him make the roster so easily. He hasn’t got much attention over here, although Ben Graham-Jets (and Bennett before him) have got a lot of attention as they played Aussie Rules professionally beforehand.

I guess I see your point on the 3rd QB – they all came good under new teams. Although are you comfortable with just one backup behind a somewhat fragile Bledsoe….

On the height issue it always amuses me to see 6’2" QB’s labelled as too short and 6’4" QB’s as “prototypical” — I struggle to believe 2 inches makes that much difference. I think its a stat that’s easy to latch on to rather than trying to understand the more subjective things like how they see the field, respond to pressure etc. I also seem to recall a certain Joe Montana was only 6’2".

Boy from Oz: McBriar came to the Grand Final party we had in Dallas last year. Also brought Barnes with him. Barnes was dogging him pretty hard about the weird entertainment (some bizarre asexual thing) that we just didn’t really understand here in Dallas. I’ve played footie for the last 6 years for the Dallas Magpies. For those not familiar Aussie Rules Football is full contact with no pads. Its not Rugby!! Matts a nice guy, as are the vast majority of the Aussies. I still don’t undertand the passion for cricket though. Height is overrated but it is very measurable and shows how weak the system is for picking good QBs. BTW Flutie is another guy that developed.

I’m glad someone sees my point. I still don’t see where a team has developed a QB from #3 to # 2 to the #1. It seems once they get cut they get on a new team and improve to the #2 or #1.

Mr Bill has a very good point that you can come out ahead if you can raise them to a sellable level then trade for value. That would seem to be a much better return on investment. Find what your good at producing, produce more than you need and sell your surplus. It seems everybody is trying to grow QBs and only one team is having any success. Some one should try something different.

Do you really think we have more than one back-up to Bledsoe this year? Romo is the backup and if he went down Henson would finish out the game and we would sign some other fill in. I hope I’m significantly underestimating Henson’s ability at this point but I have’n’t seen it yet.

F15: I’m a full believer in developing the QBs but if they aren’t at a level to be at least your #2 it appears to be a waste of time for your team and a benefit to some other team down the road.

An Aussie Rules player in Dallas – thats one for the books. Although I played Gridiron (i.e. American Football) in Aust so I guess its the same thing.

I don’t think you would mistake our level of play as anything to be too proud of but its a lot of fun and a good excuse to drink some beer after a run. Most of the Aussie have a hard time adapting to playing in the heat. our website is dallasfooty.com.