A Second Look

Raf
Yea they should have had at least one more corner. Reading this it seems like you are not giving MB the credit for his play. JJ hasn’t done anything this year. MB per carry is a half a yard more than JJ. I think JJ would do a better job as the third down back than the starter right now.

aw,

I’m not drinking your kool-aid. Besides, you undo a lot of your credibility with your last statement. What’s the third down back’s role? To catch passes and to block. Who is the best blocker among the RBs? Shoot, among the FBs too? And the best receiver? Barber has to be the 3rd down back. He was drafted to be the 3rd down back. He and Jones are being used the right way.

But it’s aw’s world, where everything, every Cowboys move, win, loss, improvement and digression can be reduced to a Marion Barber vs. Julius Jones argument.

I’m not drinking your kool-aid, mister. Dallas had three big running holes Sunday. Barber was fortunate enough to get all three. His avg. on his remaining 12 runs was 2.9. Jones never got a hole like the ones Barber did. You can go on about style, health, coaching, intangibles, etc., etc. I believe the simplest explanation is the best one. And looking at the tape, this is the simplest and and obvious explanation.

And really, what’s the problem? They’re both playing. They’re both contributing. You can talk until you’re blue in the face and raise this non-issue forever, but it’s a diversion. It’s a non-issue.

Raf,

I posted this question yesterday, but I’ll post it again, since I know you have had a chance to look at the game again: On Parker’s sideline catch, was he in or out? When I saw the replays, from the time he had possession, you look right at the legs, and I think that his left leg was out of bounds. What think ye?

Henry was clearly limping during the game
The Henry situation either means Parcells thinks a busted Henry is better than Reeves or Henry won’t get any better with rest?

Raf
What I say is JJ would do better as the third down back than being the starter. JJ numbers would be better for him as the third down back because he would get to run the draws more. At the end of the year MB is going to have a higher per carry avg than JJ. MB is playing better. I think MB should get 20 plus carries. I know MB blocks better and is a better receiver and that why I think he should start. JJ would do more as the third down back than his current position. Hell if MB was starting there would be no need for a third down back just someone to give him a break.

hey Raf…….let em switch…….the starting back JJ had less carries than MB? go figure. BP says he does not even know who is always in there and when……and my guess is unless one or both fumbles he will stay with that non commitment on the rb argument. It ain’t a qb.

Be glad we got these two as opposed to Troy Hambrick or Eddie George or for that matter Anthony Thomas. Both of em in College shared carries at Notre Dame and in Minn. Now if you got Maroney on your team…..Peterson or Bush…..then you give that guy the rock 25 times……with these two it don’t make no nevermind anyhow.

Imagine Canty after a full offseason and strength conditioning. This kid had over 100 tackles as DE in the 3 man and 4 man fronts against the likes of FSU, Miami and Va Tech. He is a beast and given a full offseason and another 12 lbs of muscle is going to be the best 4th rounder BP ever drafted……heard he owes JJ some credit on that one. He was higher rated than Spears or James before his knee and eye dropped his stock like Enron in the middle of a Ken Lay indictment.

You wrote off Carpenter after his injury but if he drops to the 2nd or 3rd you still think he is a likely OLB? Who else you likin for BP to bookend Ware.

I saw Gonzalez hold Ware something Terrible on the LJ TD. A similar play on the opposite side of the Ball and Witten got called for less of a hold than TG. Now I ain’t going into a whole diatribe about officiating…..cuz I thought it was for the most part good……but Ware was held big time by Gonz. Still he ought to shake a TE even one like TG. I always give Shawm Merriman a hard time for Heath Miller putting him on his but, it waren’t that bad but it werent that good either. He did put LJ on his but though and he still managed to be around the QB.

If he is taking his rush more outside and Spears, Ferg, Canty Ellis Glover whoever can get that push up the middle this defense will start putting up major sacks every game. I ain’t to worried about that kid……..give me one more like him and we might be on to something.

How much rest is he getting…….seems like he rarely leaves the field…….maybe his speed and strength are gone in the 3rd and 4th the way Ellis and Glover were huffing and puffing before rotation roatation rotation.

AW,

You and EricR should go back a few threads and have your own pity party and MBIII campaign.

I for one am tired of your arguments. They’re stale, based on opinion, and do not reflect the opinion of most on this thread, and most importantly, Bill Parcells. Get a media pass and go ask him.

Rafael,

I understand your point that Ware, Canty, and Spears should no longer be considered kids…but

Seldom do rookies excel toward the end of the season. The major exception is RB and WR is not far behind. But most players in the trenches get worn down by a season that is nearly double what they experienced in college.

Furthermore, because of the rules for getting the rookies into mini-camps, training camp, etc., they have not had even half of an offseason to prepare like a pro. The second-year slump is usually reserved for the playmaking positions as they begin to make the transition from reactionary to planned execution, but the big uglies usually do better with the extra strength and experience.

Of course, we all know the third year’s the thing. I fully expect the rookies to tank when the playoff tempo arrives. No way they’re ready.

Thus, I’m very glad we have a full load of veteran’s to lean on.

aw:

I don’t see why BP needs to designate a particular RB as specifically a starter or a third down back. Different situations call for different playcalling and maybe a different style of back to execute the play. The fact that JJ is better at running draw plays doesn’t necessarily mean that you want to always be running draws only on third down. I have always liked the idea of second and long draw plays. If it works it might be third and not too long, if it doesn’t it isn’t much worse than an incomplete pass would have been.

It’s becoming increasingly obvious to me the way BP likes to handle his running backs. He likes specialization and dividing responsibilities among a set of backs rather than put it all on one RB (unless he has a true elite back). I think he has a feel for what each RB’s strengths and weaknesses are and uses them according to the situation and playcall.

He did this with the Giants after Joe Morris left. He alternated between Otis Anderson and Rodney Hampton as his main running backs because Anderson was more of a power rusher and Hampton was more finesse and slashing style. Dave Megget and Mo Carthon were used to catch a lot of passes out of the backfield, and both of their styles contrasted each other, with Megget being more of a playmaker. He really only stuck with one feature running back when he had Curtis Martin in New England and with the Jets and when he had Joe Morris with the Giants in his prime.

I think BP feels like if he doesn’t have one elite type of RB, then he isn’t going to run the same guy all game. Obviously if he had Edge or Tomlinson then he would. I wouldn’t be surprised to see BP use another late round pick on another RB this year too. Perhaps a good receiving style back like Dave Megget was, or a FB that can catch good.

I kind of like the idea of interchanging running backs all game. It gives the defense different looks and creates match-up problems with linebackers and safeties. Anything to keep the other team off balance is cool with me.

Fighter15
My opinion is MB should start the facts are MB has better numbers than JJ period. Longest run more 20 plus yard runs and the only 100 yard game this year. 4.1 per carry to 3.5. Just facts……..

Anyone have anything on the Junior Glymph we just signed from Atlanta?

AW- sad fact is that MB just does not have the speed to make D’s worry and JJ does. Point one.
ANd you neglect to mention that it is against bad D’s that MB runs well- just like any other RB in the NFL. But you don’t matter- only BP matters and he has pretty much told you you are full of it by the way he plays them. You think you know something- you know NOTHING.

Rafael:

I am glad to hear you aren’t blaming Roy Williams for that last pass play against KC. I admit he has had some blown plays in his career, but what SS hasn’t? Even Darren Woodson and Ronnie Lott got burned on occassion. Not often, but it happens to even the best of them.

A friend of mine made a great point about the Redskins game on MNF earlier this year. He said it was simultaneously Roy William’s best and worst game in the NFL. Roy played out of his head the whole game until the final few minutes, and then was a major part of allowing the two big TD bombs to Santana Moss.

The reverse could be said of the Philly game on MNF. Roy didn’t really play all that well for a lot of the game, then suddenly turns it on at the end and runs back an INT for the winning touchdown. Even though a lot of people were saying it was a gift, he did have to jump up and stretch out for it, and I have seen a lot of DB’s over the years drop that ball or not have the speed or athletic ability to take it back all the way and stay in bounds.

That’s the nature of playing safety, especially strong safety. They can go from being the hero to the goat on one play. Honestly though, there is no strong safety in the NFL right now that I would trade Roy for.

burmafrd
JJ hasn’t done anything this year to worry any defense next point. We can only judge what we see and what we see is MB is the only Dallas rb to go over 100 yards this season. Next point they both ran against KC and MB looked better and quicker. I’m not saying MB is faster but he looks it right now. JJ has one run for over 20 yards this year. The only thing you have is JJ is the starter right now you don’t have anything to suggest he should start. I know JJ is the starter right now until BP changes it.

Dallas considering another quarterback?
“CFL quarterback Kasey Printers worked out Monday with the Dolphins. According to Printers’ agent, Alex Williams, the quarterback also will work out with Kansas City and has received interest from Dallas and San Francisco. Williams said he expected Printers to sign with an NFL team within a week or two.”

hey bumafrnd. you are trippin

you are not givin barber his credit, yeah barber and jj have both had +10 carries on some games, barber is clearly playing better. dont ride jj’s wee-wee cuzz i really wouldnt be surprised if the boys make the playoffs and barber gets the most touches. he may not have that breakaway speed that jj does once he gets to the 2ndry but he has to get there first and he really hasnt this year. im gonna tell you why barber is playin better than jj and will probably continue too. BARBER HITS THE HOLES FASTER AND HARDER THAN JJ DOES SO THERE IS LESS TIME FOR A HOLE TO COLAPSE ON HIM, JJ HITS THE HOLES SLOWER SO BY THE TIME HEGETS TO THE HOLD SOMEONE IS ALREADY FILLIN THE GAP OR THE HOLE IS SMALL.

YOU KNOW NOTHING!

When can we move on from talking about KC and Parcells vs Peyton and Barber vs Jones? Two days is more than enough with the Deadskins and possibly sweet revenge on the horizon. But if you feel the need to debate ridiculous comparisons…how about Staubach vs Aikman or Dorsett vs Smith or Doomsday I’s d-line vs Doomsday II’s d-line?

We beat a pretty good KC team. We have a tough road ahead but first I wanna lay into Washington and Danny “Jumping Jack” Snyder for about 35 points to their 0. Ah, to dream…bring on Ole Gibbs. Remember Gibbs thinks all us Cowboy fans are ugly remember? I know I am but you all should be insulted! I can’t get Snyder’s baby dance he did in our house out of my head.

Raf-Let’s start talking Deadskins tomorrow, okay?

Rev
I’m trying (see above) but we may have to set up a Barber & Jones Blog to get us there…

well yet another disgruntled WR will be on the market next year……most likely……..Eric Moulds………but before you go calling for him to replace KJ or TG….you might want to look at his stats. He does have history with Drew Bledsoe…….and BP coached against him in NYJ and NE.

TO and Moulds will probably both be FAs come march. I ain’t even sure moulds could beat out Crayton or TG for a spot on the roster. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him go to Washington. Greg Williams would give the thumbs up or down to Gibbs.

I really think another good G and another good T on the offensvie line are more important than TO. You give Drew a few seconds and put 3 or 4 in a pattern he can do exactly what he did Sunday.

Rev…….we been beating the Redskins so good for so long…..it ain’t even exciting….it was a heartbreak loss that I have had to endure locally in the enemy territory……..they will not beat us again. We are going to have our Fourth Blow out in DC……JJ and MB are going to run all over em!!! Tnew and Henry will shut down Brunell and company……and Joe will be left admitting to danny boy that Bill Parcells is still his daddy………just like he admitted on Inside the NFL on HBO……you should have seen Dan Snyders face as the HOF coach admitted Parcells was better and had the better record in their head to head matchups!!! Danny was thinking……..“Jerry whopped me again…….first Deion and now this!!!” Then ole Danny boy went down to the Delta and stood at dem dere crossroads and sold his soul. Sad thing is it was to some Katrina hurrican victim who looked like he had horns on his head. Turns out it was just some Mardi Gras makeup that was floating in the water. Ole Danny boy cannot even do that right!!!
 
As far as the rushing debate……Terry Glenn had the best rushing yards per carry AVG and a TD………should he be our starting tailback????

Hey fellows. Just checking in your thread. Looking forward to read all the good info and openions. Peace

Thanks Linus…sorry I missed it.

Jon B…maybe it is just me but I never get tired of beating the Redskins. Beating the Cards got old, the Giants…whatever, the Eagles…though it is fun to watch Ugglies fans convulse…but whipping the Deadskins…ah…nothing like it.

I especially enjoy it these days because I like watching Danny boy pout like a kid that got only clothes for Christmas.

I still wanna see us beat ’em by at least 3 touchdowns.

Where is Sean with the kool-aid? Pour me a thermos full…it’ll be cold up in Washington.

I hope Dallas signs QB Casey Printers. I’ve been watching him play in the CFL and he reminds me of another QB who jumped from the CFL to the NFL – Warren Moon. He is big (6’ 2", 215), fast, and has a great arm. He is also a good QB, not just a good athlete.

The Cowboys should be stoked to beat the Redskins this week and redeem themselves for that loss at the beginning of the season. I hope the defensive rookies aren’t running out of gas – the pass rush is starting to peter out.

Rev.Michael-there’s going to be a run on Kool-Aid this week but not here. The Dead-skins fans will need it to get them ready for the game. We have strong indicators that we should win this week (although nothing is a given). We are getting healthier in our secondary, more mature at RT, have a healthy competition at RB and need to get our momentum started for a playoff push. Plus BP likes these guys. Maybe thats Psycho-babble for some but I think that means a lot and will get guys to step up.

Jon,

I still like Carpenter. I’m encouraged a bit that he may be sliding to the mid-2nd. I made him my prediction when Kiper slid him into his top-25, but he’s dropped off. If he is available in round two, you get a chance at another starting quality player, either a safety, interior lineman or ILB.

But I’ll table that. It’s time to move on to Washington. It’s rivalry week and people are already feeling it. I’m with you, Rev. Michael, let’s talk ’Skins.

Rafael-Anything noteworthy on Junior Glymph? He seems a little light for DE.

I’ll try to put an end to the Rb debate! Simple-substitute Troy Hambrick for MBIII and Emmitt for JJ. Now, I don’t mean to compare their talent, so don’t tell me “JJ ain’t no Emmitt!”-I know that. But remember when Emmitt was getiing old and Hambrick was the backup? He’d come go out there and looked great! Hit the hole! Livelier legs! Yadda Yadda…Even I (Biggest Emmitt fan of all) was saying it was time to make a change. Well, we saw what happened when Ham had to step up, fill the role, and do it 25 times a game. The other teams figured him out, and that was it. The guy had no moves. Wha a stiff.
Now, I think Barber is better than Hamb., but can you see the point? Defenses will study him if he’s the starter, just like they’ve studied the film of Jones. They’re not stupid, they will react. And it may be that it’s using the two in combo that is giving him some success. You can’t just assume that if he gets more carries the averages and everything will extrapolate out. OK? Now shut up about it!

Did you notice JJ’s the physical difference between last year and this year? He has bulked up allot.. He was much more elusive runner last year than this year. Maybe he is stronger but not as quick because of it… Just a thought.

Hey linus,

I agree we need to focus on diaper dan’s redskins. good news they are banged up a little at corner. I for one wish that there is an explanation I could understand about what has happened to Jones. He looked fantastic last year, thought he was the second coming….

I’ve been reliving some of my favorite anti-Redskin memories. Anybody remember the game in the late eighties when some Deadskin defender punched/shoved a Cowboy o-lineman and Danny White (my favorite Cowboy in my childhood) literally jumped onto the defender…I think it was a d-lineman…maybe a linebacker. Does anyone remember who the Deadskin was that felt Danny’s wrath and whether or not we won the game? I am thinking we lost.

I long for that old intensity among players. Roger refusing to shake hands with Redskins…ah the good ole days. Darn that free agency!

Don’;t forget that the Skins don’t have their Starting DT Joe Sa’aalavea (spelling?!) out for this game so here’s hoping our Guards can make holes up the middle for our running backs Jj or MBIII

Assuming the skins are truly without those DBs and DT we should surely catch a break. No NFL team can survive losing 3 starting DBs and a starting DT. Seems impossible to me.

AW

Who do you think is the best RB, JJ or MBIII? Wondering you opinion about that.

where is everyone?

rha
Right now MB is better, he can do more than JJ. If nobody know what JJ did last year and just looked at this year it wouldnt be a topic.

It was Dexter Manley, Rev. We won the game. Believe it was a loss during the ’83 NFC Championship. Manley later knocked him out.

Im back in the DC area.Word is Chris Samuels has a sprained right MCL and sprained right ankle. Not out but not 100%. That goes well with the skins D injuries.
Also, the ints have two D starters definitely out against the chefs (“who are the chefs?”)
We need all the help we can get

Lets look at something we are 8-5
8-1 when scoring over 13 points
3-4 against teams with winning records.
5-5 in games that can go either way.
If these trends continue we will beat Washington 21-17 and loose 20-13 against Carolina then beat the rams 27-10. To move to
10-1 when scoring over 13 points
4-5 against teams with winning records
6-6 in tight games. What do you guys think about this?

testing my comments posting after registering for the first time.

donald,

I didn’t know about the ‘Skins injuries but the Giants were beaten up in Philadelphia. And they’ve got a short week, playing the Chiefs on Saturday.
Great googly-moogly! Go Mr. “dicked-us!”

yeah the giants are gonna have a hard time winning that game. the skins have plenty of 2ndry injuries from what i hear

We need KC and wash to beat NY.

rafael,
I havnt seen the official injury report, but its the word on the local stations. Maybe Ware can take advantage of that. It likely forces more max protect schemes which limit the skins offensive options.

Oh the irony, the hated skins will be our best friends next week. just like we’re pulling for the chefs this week.

Rafael:
NY injury report: Out: DT Joseph and MLB Pierce. Day-to-day (Questionables): LT Petitgout and RT McKenzie (both starters). NY’s going to have problems stopping Larry Johnson without those 2 guys in the middle, while Allen and Hicks could have a couple of more sacks without both Tackle starters.

i predict that the chiefs beat the giants sunday, thus leaving the giants with 2 road games left of which they will lose one of them. if dallas wins out the division could be ours. and even if the boys dont win the division i can at least say the giants have picked a bad time to pile up injuries.

AW,

Right on. Looks like “our” lost arguement of starting Barber is proving to be one more of gold.

Fighter,

Yours and other’s biggest arguement has been that Barber didn’t do it against a good team. Well, Barber and Jones both played against the Chiefs, and it wasn’t until Barber’s 3rd down and 1 toss right play that this offense looked like it had any chance of scoring (2nd quarter, 1st scoring drive, first time Barber touched the ball). There I’ll throw that word out there again, he was the “spark”. In fact if you look closely, any time the Cowboys were doing anything last Sunday, Marion Barber was lined up behind the QB. … He made a very nice catch on 3rd and 8 and picked up 11 for the 1st, on what the coach deemed “the best drive of the season”. Who was the RB during that drive? Marion Barber III!!! … Barber made play after play, sparked the team when time they needed it. … You say there is no arguement and you are right. There is none, Barber should be getting the majority of the plays!! The stats prove it!! Most importantly, how the offense plays proves it. They are simply more productive when Barber plays. Period!! Now that Barber has shown he can hold onto the ball, we will be seeing more of him.

Hey guys, I think we can’t go scoreboard watching just yet. This team played very well on Sunday, and I think that is what they need to concentrate on. If they play like they did against the Chiefs, I believe they can beat any NFC team. .. Fortunately, that is all Dallas is left with, NFC teams. Play like they are capable, win out and the rest will fall into place.

burmford,

You say Barber doesn’t worry anyone? Who took the flee flicker? Barber. .. Also his yards per carry is better than Jones’. He has scored more TDs in a bunch less carries. Dallas’ two biggest runs came on Barber’s feet. .. So if team are not worried about Baber, then do you really think they worry about Jones? … Barber has been a more effective runner. IS a better pass protector. IS a much better receiver!! What else do you see? … AW said it exactly right:“if you look at both backs THIS YEAR, there is no discusion.”

Eric,

1. One game is not a trend. It’s not a big enough sample size for anything;
2. Your argument for starting Barber is that he’s clearly more productive. Okay, then explain the Giants game:
Jones — 162 yards of offense;
Barber - 4 yards of offense;
3. Barber is holding the ball better, but he’s still got a ways to go:
- Jones, two fumbles lost on roughly 200 carries, or one per 100 carries;
— Barber, three fumbles lost on roughly 120 carries, or one per 40 carries.

When Barber gets all the carries and Jones none, you can call this gold. Otherwise, you’re claiming victory in a contest that doesn’t exist. They’re gonna keep splitting the duties unless one of them gets hurt.

Raf,

Your 1st point is a good one, but Barber and Jones have had more opportunities than this one game. Barber played a huge part in 2 of Dallas’ top 3 offensive performances. His yards per carry is better. His TD ratio is far and away better. Last but certainly not least Barber III is becoming a vital part of their passing attack, both receiving and blocking.

Your second point is contradicted by what you say later. “When Barber gets all the carries and Jones none …” Well Jones received the larger dose against the Giants. But productiveness? Points!! That is what I am talking about. 13 points when Jones received the lion’s share of touches. 31 when Barber got the rock. … And please don’t give me the Giants defense is good. They allowed 23 points against a Philly team that had basically their second unit in there.

Your 3rd point goes right to the heart of the question you posed to me last week or so. “Why then isn’t Barber starting?” .. Because he fumbles too much. Absolutely!! I have said that all along. I have said that Barber deserves a shot, but for him to keep that, he has to hold onto the ball better than he had. Obviously Parcells is there at practice. I would assume that Marion’s fumblitis stretched to practice as well. That is why the games with so little carries. Because it is also quite obvious that he sparks this offense.

When it comes to my point. People’s arguement here against Barber had been, “their numbers were against different calliber teams and Jones played the better teams”. Well, Jones started, and the offense was dismal. When Barber touched the ball, they had life!! His big 3rd down run in the second quarter … led to their first points!! When Barber was in the game they scored!! The flea flicker? Barber was in the back field. The game winning drive? Yep it was Barber, not only in the backfield, but he made two huge catches. They scored!! When Bledsoe faked the handoff and passed to Cambell, he faked it to Barber. The entir defense bit!

I noticed in your post game comments that the line opened bigger holes for Barber. Whether that is the case or whether the case may be that Barber’s straight ahead style fits these offensive linemen better, the end result is the same, the offensive linemen play better with Barber lined up QB. I believe that a defense has to account for Barber’s receiving skills. Hence some more openness in running the ball. Don’t think that poof all of a sudden the line just starts playing better. Also Marion’s ability to run inside the tackles as well as getting the edge makes him a huge threat. If you prepare a defensive scheme for Jones and its a passing situation, you can sell out and call an all out blitz. Jones doesn’t block too well, so you can also take chances on 1st and 2nd downs with some blitzes. With Barber, you have to be ready to defend the pass and run at all times. And he is much better at picking up the blitz! He not only fits the linemen’s style better, Barber fits Dallas’ offensive scheme better than Jones too. A scheme that is predicated on making the defense cover the entire field. … When I watch the Cowboys I look at Marion Barber as a huge threat that can catch, run, and block!! Like AW says, “Jones hasn’t been that this year.”

Raf:

Splitting the carries is exactly how Parcells wants it for now. Maybe if one of them emerges next August as a clear-cut primary back things will change. Until then it’s going to be a platoon.

And it certainly is a dead issue by now.

Sterling,

You are right, they should and probably will split the carries. The thing in question is who deserves more reps? .. As long as Barber isn’t coughing it up in practice, I say give him the higher %. He has earned it!