Pickin' Fruit from the Parcells Tree?

While I strongly insisted (in an earlier thrread) that Bill Parcells would not replace either of his coordinators, I’m not nearly as certain that either of them want to come back.

Parcells can’t be any easy person to work for. One or both of them might be looking for an escape. That $1 million per year Jones gave them might not be enough incentive if either gets another job offer, especially as a head coach.

Great, OC Payton for OC Turner. Even if Turner returns he won’t be calling plays for the Triplets. Calling plays for the current Cowboys may be a challenge that even Turner might not want to take on. As far as Zimmer goes, I hate to see him go, but Parcells probably wants ‘his own kind’ at such an important spot.

Great analysis. I am quite sure if JJ or either of these coordinators had any inkling that Parcells would seriously leave soon all the concerned parties would want one or both men to stay in Dallas, with one becoming BP’s replacement.

My guess is BP is remaining quiet because he likes to watch the media make fools of themselves with their ridiculous speculation. It’s like watching a dog chase its own tail around.

Personally, I wouldn’t be at all heartbroken if Payton left to go to the Packers or Raiders. I was less than impressed with a lot of his playcalling last season and I am sure with BP’s connections and reputation he can find a suitable replacement.

I’m inclined to give Zimmer the benefit of the doubt since he did have to shift to a new defense without really having enough LB’s or a true FS. The Cowboys were one of the top defenses in the league until the injuries thinned the LB ranks and took their toll. I’d like to see what Zimmer can do when he has enough personnel to really make it work.

mlf:

I wouldn’t worry about Norv Turner coming back, I sincerely doubt BP would hire him, and since he went to the Redskins I am not sure JJ would want him around either. I’m sure Turner has built up enough connections to get on as an OC somewhere else.

I saw someone mention Mike Sherman as a candidate for the Cowboys OC job if Payton leaves. I would be ecstatic with that hire!! That hardly seems fair if the Packers hired Payton away from us and we got Sherman in return!!

I’m also on the same boat of not being heart-shattered for seeing Payton go, he’s a good Coordinator and that’s it, that’s why I don’t think he will be gone, there are better candidates for the HC job.

On the other hand, Zim has proven that he’s capable of handling almost every task, he handled a Secondary that had a bunch of no-names where the Bonafide was Mario Edwards and actually made them look good and he adapted to the 3-4 even without the adequate depth and all the inexperience in half of the players of the Defense. That’s why he’s being offered a HC job, and you know, I think he’s going to get it. Look up for Todd Bowles (Secondary Assistant), which I don’t think Zim will be capable of luring as Parcells and Jones won’t allow him, to occupy his vacant.

Sterling, I like the OC Sherman idea too. Turner had little success as a HC in two tries. He’s probably looking to the college game or will settle for an OC job somewhere in the NFL. The mediots have told us all these years what a great HC Norv is. They say the same thing about other ‘failed’ HCs like Denny Green and Dom Capers. I think it’s time ot move some of the successful OCs and DCs into the NFL HC rotation.

I don’t realistically think that Sherman will come to Dallas and slave for two unforgiving task masters and a media presence significantly more vocal and nosier (local and national) than he had to deal with in Green Bay. What a crappy job for Sherman.
I think that we (just like the hated media you all are castigating) are simply speculating on this that and the other with the latest names in the news.
I don’t think we’ll have any “name” commodities coaching if Zim and Payton leave. I dearly hope that Parcells quietly finds the next Greg Williams or Tony Dungy or Marvin Williams who has come to sit at the feet of the master. Look at the coaches who Parcells has trained, Notre Dame, New England, Jets, Giants, Carthon, Payton, zim… If I thought I was an up and comer, I’d be campaigning hard to get the coordinator jobs in Dallas. I can’t see Mike Sherman doing that, unless Parcells expressly insists that Sherman come to Dallas, and that’s not something I’ve heard.

Joey2zs, “simply speculating”? Of course, it’s the time for it. It really doesn’t matter who’s right, or if anyone is right. To me, it’s kind of fun to see what people, like you and others on this blog, (and I’ll include the media folks) think about these things.

My favorite projection would be for Green Bay’s Sherman be landed as the Dallas Offensive Coordinator, bringing with him, his offensive line coach in the package deal! Then Dallas landing Dom Capers as the Defensive Coordinator, with all his previous experience in the 3-4…now, if Bill could hold THIS staff together, this would be the Super Bowl year to put it all together, to include the pickup of Terrell Owens…

My favorite projection would be for Green Bay’s Sherman be landed as the Dallas Offensive Coordinator, bringing with him, his offensive line coach in the package deal! Then Dallas landing Dom Capers as the Defensive Coordinator, with all his previous experience in the 3-4…now, if Bill could hold THIS staff together, this would be the Super Bowl year to put it all together, to include the pickup of Terrell Owens…

Sherman sounds like a good choice if Payton leaves. Wolf could influense him to coach for his long time friend, Parcells, who as I said on a previous thread could really use a “right hand man”. Sherman, just as Beightol, has the age, expierence, and intelect to be that type of sidekick.

… But no not Dom Capers! I’ll give you all a name to watch for .. Al Golden. Golden is the defensive coordinator for Virginia, is an Al Groh disciple, and coaches a creative 3-4 scheme down there which has seen UVA’s defense get better each year under his tutelage. He is young, in coaches years, and coaches with a lot of enthusiasm. I mean I don’t know about you, but I was envious while watching Greg Williams pumping his fists as his defense was kicking our offenses’ rear. Golden would bring that type of sideline and locker room presence. I have said it all year that the defense lacks character, and a young enthusiastic coach just may do the trick.

Well as long as we are all wishing.

Make my wish for Mike Martz. He probably will get less consideration for HC jobs cuz of health. Really all he is or ever was is a good OC. Maybe one of the best. He seems to have an eye for talent at QB and might be just thing to help develop Romo and Henson. I mean is Marc Bulger all that talented?

I doubt we lose Payton, and I would rather have Zimmer stay cuz I think he is a legitimate head coach in Training under Parcells. Not a bad place to be, but the money will not be matched to sit on the sidelines as a DC. Too Bad, I think he was also looking forward to coaching the likes of Newman, Henry, Ware, Spears, and Canty for the forseeable future.

Also who does he hire as his OC? Somebody from KCs staff maybe? Not sure.

But Martz would put some fireworks into our offense, he has never cared for defense or special teams but he can air it out with the best of em.

If Zimmer goes…….i hope things go to crap completely in San Diego and Marty comes back to Bill. Listen to the Giants linebackers and they all give Schottenheimer a lot of credit. He was their linebackers coach and worked with Derek Thomas in KC also. He would be just the thing for the young corp of linebackers we are going to have after this draft.

Hey a fella can dream can’t he. Besides Marty is a proven HC and could take over for Bill no question about that……after the back to back Super Bowls!!!

Eric i think both the DC and OC from UVA took head coaching jobs at other schools. Ironically Va Tech has a much more talented staff and better team but Beamer pays em well to stay. Foster from Va Tech should have been a head coach years ago already. Al Groh and company have uderperformed with the talent they have recruited.

I doubt they go after Sherman since he’s a West Coast Offense guy which isn’t Parcells’ style. I don’t think Norv has the tough coaching mentality that Parcells likes.

Capers is a definite possibility since he’s been a DC under Coughlin so Parcells knows what he’s getting, which has always been his M.O.

Jon:

I don’t think Marty would be coming back to Bill, because I am not sure that he ever coached under Parcells. I am pretty sure Schottenheimer was the head coach of the Browns (or at least a DC) around the time Parcells became the HC of the Giants. If he ever did work for the Giants it would have had to a long time before he was the HC of the Browns.

I seem to recall the year Parcells won his first Super Bowl in 86 it was against the Broncos, and I am positive that was the year the Broncos beat the Browns in the AFC Championship game in Cleveland. Schottenheimer had to have been the coach of the Browns, because I remember him getting tagged as a choker because he lost two years in a row to the Broncos in the Championship game.

Besides, there is no way I could see Schottenheimer going back to being a coordinator!! He has been an HC for at least 20 years…he’d retire before he’d do that. As for him taking over for Bill…no thanks!! He has never been able to get a team to the Super Bowl and he has coached some very good teams (on paper) in his career.

Jon:

Bledsoe would have even more sacks under a Mike Martz offensive scheme. Look at the beating Warner and Bulger took in his offense. I don’t think I have ever seen Martz do a max protect 2-TE set, he likes to spread the receivers around instead.

I just can’t see BP going for an OC with his style of Greatest Show on Turf type of offense. BP is a run first, Ground Chuck (Knox) style offense guy, where the QB is a bus driver more than a gun slinger.

If Zimmer leaves, I believe Parcells will look in-house for a replacement. The candidates being mentioned are Todd Bowles and Gary Gibbs. Both have prior 3-4 experience.

Parcells really seems to like Bowles, but Bowles has only been here for one year and (I believe) has never been more than a position coach. Gibbs, of course, has experience as a head coach at the college level.

If Payton leaves, I have no clue.

Yakuza Rich wrote:

“I doubt they go after Sherman since heâ€â"¢s a West Coast Offense guy which isnâ€â"¢t Parcellsâ€â"¢ style.”

Aaaah! This drives me crazy. The Cowboys passing game IS the WCO. The running game has aspects of several sytems, but Payton was tutored by Jim Fassell, who is a WCO guy and he put the passing playbook together. The Packers were one of the teams whose game tapes Payton used to teach the playbook to the team.

I know lots of people came to despise the WCO during the Jimmy/Norv vs. the 49ers/Packers days but then, who ever thought Parcells would be coaching this team either.

Sherman would be the closest philosophical fit to what Dallas already does of any name that’s been floated so far.

bring on sherman, farve and to . I would like to see a new dc. zimmer seems to passive at times, scared to take control of games with the defence

Rafael, you beated me to the point, just read Yakuza’s comment and I was in my way of writing almost the same thing you did…

Rafael:

I think the confusion about the West Coast Offense comes in because due to the poor O-Line play our offense sure didn’t look like a proficient WCO this past season. The way SF, GB, Denver, or Philly (since Reid took over) did in their glory days.

Of course even the much heralded West Coast Offense has to have a line that can block for longer than a 3 or 4 count in order to work properly.

The real genius of Bill Walsh was to fool everyone in the media and most football fans into thinking there is something special about the so-called “West Coast” offense. In todays game, 70-80% of the offenses could be considered WCO because the style of the game has changed. Walsh’s offenses (and the clones) relied on short to intermediate passing routes AND a strong running game. The running game is key because the RB was often asked to go out in short pass patterns as a dump off. I say all of this because I do not remember a WCO running the “flea-flicker” and because I’m sick of everyone treating the WCO as the end all be all of offensive football. Give me the Dallas offenses from 72 – 80, and 92 – 95 any day of the week.

Turns out it wasn’t genius at all. After my last rant (sorry but I hate how the “WCO” moniker is attached to so many teams in todays game) I decided to do a little research. Here is the link:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/dr_z/news/1999/10/28/inside_football/

Little Danny Boy Snyder sure raised the ante for coordinators in the league with his $2.5 million, 3-year deal with Williams. Unbelievable.

I think Norv Turner worked as a head coach for no more that $1.5 million these past two years.

While Jerry Jones is giving permission to anyone and everyone to interview or OC and DC, little Danny Boy hemmed and hawed a couple of days about permission and then cut a nice check for Williams.

While I can understand Big Bill’s desire to get away from it all for a few weeks, we may soon be facing a crisis with our coordinators given the uncertainty we have with Big Bill’s pending decision.

I could not imagine either Sherman or Turner coming to Dallas as OC with our present uncertainty.

BTW, did I say we need to can Rivera and Sparano?

cdwrye,

The version of the “West Coast Offense” popularized in the NFL was in fact Bill Walsh’s. There is a long tree of students of the Sid Gillman’s offense, including Walsh. Gillman originated the offensive passing scheme now known as the West Coast Offense, but it branched off into plenty of different versions. While Kosar may have coined the term “West Coast Offense” to describe Turner’s offense, that term grouped together a bunch of coaches with ties to the West Coast using a version of Gillman’s offense. The most successful branch off of that offense is Walsh’s, who revolutionized it. Gillman’s offense was NEVER called the West Coast Offense, and since the term originated at around the time of Walsh’s most recent successes, it stuck with him. It was a generic term though when it was coined by Kosar, and it just stuck to the most popular version at that time.