Zimmer to Return, Payton's HC Hopes Narrow

Hey Cowboy Fans,

Raf:

I hope you are right about Zimmer.
What he & BP did in the 1st year with this defense is amazing. The best part is they will without a doubt be a much better unit this year. I would rather see Payton stay but if we have to lose one I rather him. This defense really has the license to be one of the best in the league this year. Hopefully Burnett makes a full recovery & I was ver high on Ratcliff before his IR injury. A little help @ linebacker & we should be good to go. The offensive line must be dealt with this year. Allen will not cost much against the cap if they release him so he must stay. Also Rivera must play at the level he did in the past. Not the just get by job he did this year. I really feel we need an upgrade at center. Johnson just cannot get enough push up the middle. I think if we cannot upgrade we would be better of with Gurode. Well, no matter what happens the OL should be BP`s main priority this off season.

I want to see what Payton does with a healthy offensive line…

Zimmer needs a lot better attack packages…

and I think that Bill is getting a little impatient waiting to see who he will ‘share’ player personnel decisions with…as he is already on the clock…

CCBoy:
Zimmer can’t send better attack package after the QB if he’s hesitant to leave one safety alone out there. As Bill Parcells said earlier, Safety is definetely a need and one that has to be solved this offseason. Just like Payton, Zimmer had one hand tied to his back for the personnel they had.

Darn-I’ve been looking forward to another team taking Payton off our hands. I sure hope JJ doesn’t think this guy is HC material. When Parcells leaves we need to bring in a young guy with some fire, not another Chan Gailey…..In today’s NFL emotion plays a larger part than ever-look at what Cowher and Grudin get out of their teams. There’s a certain look/style HC’s have and Payton ain’t got it-and I’m not too sure about Zimmer either. You have to get the players’ attention and respect

CCBoy,

You don’t have to bring a safety to bring pressure. I just would like to see us bring more LBs. Our blitzes were soooo predicatable this year. We never really brought our inside LBs, and we hardly ever breought our LOLBs. When we did, we almost always got pressure from it. Teams pretty much planed on shifting their pass protection to the left on all passing plays. The way those great teams with the 3-4 got soo good was mixing up blitzes. That doesn’t mean that we should pull Ware back alot, but we could have him run more twists, and we definitely need to bring more than 1 LB sometimes.

Now, I know we need better Lbs, and that might have been part of the problem, but it didn’t even seem like we really tried very much to bring the extra LB. I don’t know. I guess that’s the difference between a good defense like ours and a top notch one like Pitt. They come up with the big plays and attack you when you need to make a play. We had too many times when we could have put a ton of preasure on a team and we sat back and let them make plays.

imagine if the Colts went undefeated and then lost their playoff game…….ouch!!!

Manning will catch Danny White for having played in 10 playoff games with no Super Bowl appearance. I remember those Joe Montana years well unfortunately.

Larry,

Why are you so hurried to move Payton on? Were the play calls so much better in ‘03 and ’04 when Parcells handled them? Cause he’s gonna call them again if Payton leaves.

Off Topic- Did anyone else see the interview with Greg Ellis last night with Mike Doocey? It covered the reasons he wanted to leave (for more playing time). I can only say I will be very to sorry to see such a classy guy leave. He spoke highly of the Cowboys organization and BP but didn’t feel that at this point in his career he is best served by playing such a limited role. No whining, just a solid case for moving him. I’m sure we can find a body to plug in but we will have a difficult time replacing his locker room leadership.

Sean,

While I like Ellis, I don’t see anything classy about diminishing your trade value, which is exactly what public complaining does. And let’s face it, Ellis has been crying to the papers for almost a year now.

Sean,

I didnt see the interview, but I do see his point. I’ve always been a big Ellis fan. It would stink to see him go, but in soem way it would also be nice, since you never want a good guy, and good player, to have to sit on the bench. It’s one of those rare win-win situations for the team if we can get a good return.

Wow Raf, that’s way too harsh. I haven’t heard him complain at all. The whole time Ellis have never gone to the media. He answers the questions that are asked. When asked what he thought about the 3-4 scheme, he answered truthfully and said he didn’t think it would be good for his stayle of play. He never said we shouldn’t do it, and didn’t ask to be traded. All he said was that he didn’t think it fit him, and that he would try his best to fit into the scheme. He went to BP, not the media, to ask about his PT.

Even in this, he hasn’t demanded a trade. From what I gather, he said that it would be better for him to play somewhere else, since he is not well fit for this scheme and he has the talent to be a starter in the NFL. I don’t really see that as deminishing his trade value. He expressed the things that everyone in the NFL, or with knowledge of the situation, already knew. It’s not new info here. It’s not a player that is disgruntled.

Hopefully, someone will cough up a return for Ellis. Perhaps we could package him and Glover along with Singleton for a 2nd and a 3rd. Maybe even higher than that, but I won’t hold my breath. Having said all that, it is a shame that Ellis will be leaving.

Rafael- Why would any player worry about his trade value. It is a cold business and when a team can’t use you any more your gone. He is looking at one more good payday in his career and he won’t get it playing 15% of the snaps. He deserves to get moved and is making his case publicly and in a way that preserves his image among fans in Dallas. Maybe it would be “classier” to sit quietly by while JJ and BP whittle his few remaining productive years away on the bench but I personally respect his argument and concern to take care of his own financial well-being as well as the manner in which he as maintained his professional demeanor through-out his “misfit” year in the 3-4.

eyeamkurgan-I wouldn’t be so quick to off load Singleton. I’m not sure what his cap impact is but if it is close to the vet minimum I would keep him as the steady-Eddie guy that he is. He is not a “playmaker” but he reliably gets his job done.

Sean,

He’s an asset. And I doubt that any team would bench him out of spite or ignorance in the salary cap era. It’s wasted money and no team can afford that.

That said, I’m sure they would like to move him. But where has all the talk about moving him come from, this year and last? Has Jerry Jones, or Stephen Jones or Parcells said anything about trading him? No, it’s been Ellis bad mouthing his fit, last year and immediately after the game. And maybe a reporter asked him but the “I don’t see myself coming back” comments didn’t need much prompting, did they?

How is this good business? I’m sure the Cowboys would like to be accomodating because he could bring them something in return but this reeks of bad faith. And doing this while you’ve got a smile on your face has to infuriate the front office.

The guy is under contract for several more years, so saying he deserves another good deal when that deal is still years away puts Ellis in the realm of T.O., to my eyes.

Rafael-Where has all the talk come from indeed. I think it is legitimate to ask why an anchor on your d-line for the last 7 years has a significantly reduced role. Fans have asked, Media have asked. He is only stating the obvious by saying he is not a good fit. If he was a good fit for the 3-4 he would be playing more. He never said anything about not finishing his contract and neither did I. He needs to be in an environment where he sees the field in order to make his run at a good contract. Thats all I’m saying. He is not pulling a T.O. by any stretch of the imagination. No where has renegotiating his contract been brought up. I think he would be better served getting his contract after the new CBA is in place in a couple years.

Sean,

I’m not trying to pick a fight with you, certainly, but I’m at a loss about Ellis’ press savvy, or seeming lack of it.

We know Ellis role was reduced and we all know why. He’s been decent at as 3-4 DE but nothing spectacular. It’s obvious the team was trying to avoid getting him injured, because he was, as many people noted, productive as a pass rusher. They increased his reps the last three games when this became clear.

Fine. But if the team is trying to move you and you probably prefer being moved, then why talk about it? You’re both going for the same goal, right?

LaRoi Glover was asked the same question at the same time, in the locker room after the Rams game, and laughed and said, “I have no worries about my future…” End of interview. He said, in so many words, “I know you guys like to stir up controversy and if they trade me they trade me, but I have no comment.”

The fact that Ellis was already post-marking himself out of Dallas fifteen minutes after the season ends and repeats this with every reporter who sticks a mike in his face is protesting too much, IMO. There simply isn’t any reason to do this, unless he’s playing some passive aggressive game with the front office.

Great, Zimmer stays. I don’t know that much about Payton but his track record calling plays seems lacking. I won’t be too harsh on anyone, Payton, Drew, JJ or Barber, until the OL is fixed however. Without a great OL it’s hard to judge the other parts of the O. Look what happened to Whitten’s production when Adams went down. It turned a great playmaking TE into an average threat.

ellis probably reached the point of just not giving a flip. he signed a contract expecting the roster bonus, but he didn’t feel he’d get it, so he’s venting his frustration. he’s done all he can, and it just didn’t work out in his favor. he’s ready to move on after the dealing with the business side of the nfl.

CCBoy,

Zimmer needs a lot better attack packages…

I agree.

Since Parcells was not able to install his entire 3-4 package, and has admitted that it was not as complex as he would like, I would assume that the additional complexity to be added (hopefully, this offseason) will add opportunities for more and more varied attacks.

Rafael,

I tend to agree with your complaints about Ellis’s public stance. However, throwing him into the same sewer as Terrell Owens is hardly an argument to be taken seriously. It’s somewhat like lumping a pickpocket in with Osama Bin Laden.

Many players complain about their plight (or their contract). Thankfully, only a few follow in the infamous footsteps of Terrell Owens.

I call, ‘overkill’! :)

Mr Bill,

As far back as memory serves, you have always been very astute to details…and I commend you on your perseverance.

Singleton’s cap saving, if cut, are about $1.67M…when waived…He no longer fits the Cowboy’s 3-4, and would only be kept for package play and depth, but I wouldn’t even then…just myself.

I like Greg Ellis a whole lot, but am dissappointed in the economic side, especially on display during the playoffs…he could just as easily shown some tact and better timing to his comments, but he chose to do what he did…my guess, is that he is drumming up a little business, and since the Cowboys really are concerned with playoff possibilities, I also like the prospect of an additiona second round pick…
His place on the defensive end position, can be replaced both in the 3=4 and the 4-3…

By the way, I think that the best aid to the blitz/attack packages, would be a similar player on the opposite side of Ware…unless Peterson somehow wanders into the highway during free agency, it will have to be one of the top draft picks of the Cowboys…

Mr. Bill,

Okay, overkill. He doesn’t have Drew Rosenhaus. But this is two offseasons now that this nonsense has started. And while it’s not T.O. standard, it’s grating.

Rafael-Comparing Glover’s statement “I have no worries about my future” to Ellis’ expressions of doubt that he’ll be a Cowboy next season seems to overlook that fact that Glover is a few years ahead of Ellis in his career curve and has already nailed down his big contract whereas Ellis is feeling his time run out to get in position for his. Glover also has more of a mercinary mentality than Ellis having played for 3 teams and having moved before. It is much easier to be confident in your future when you already have the $ in the bank.

I see Ellis as accepting that his time has run out here, not feeling betrayed or disappointed but a little melancholy at having to move on. I like the loyalty he has shown to the Cowboys and don’t see how anything he has done has hurt his value. If anything it has shown him as a well spoken, clean-cut guy ready for the next step in his NFL career which should enhance his appeal to a future team. I see it as showcasing himself in the only avenue open to him. He might even help generate some calls to JJ about his availablilty.
He has never mentioned his contract or $, only his lack of playing time in this system.

I completely agree with you Rafael.

And the reason he didn’t harp on it all season is there is a ban on players talking to the press during the year. He would have been fined/suspended had he said these things during the year. And while it’s not t.o.-level, it’s t.o.-ish.

fighter-15 The local press interviewed the players every week in the locker room. They are mostly hand picked but I’m sure if Ellis wanted to drop a gem on them he could have gotten it out.

The ban applies to coaches. Several of the players have radio shows.

But Sean,

Ellis won’t be a UFA this offseason. He’s got years left on his current deal. If he’s making any noise to get a new deal, that only makes his behavior worse.

Rafael-My take on it is that he is looking down the road. If he just sits here as a role player for the next 2 years he will not have any market value. As I said before, I have heard nothing saying he won’t honor his contract or that he is unhappy with the $ he is making now. Think what his next (and last) contract will be if he is in a situation where he has been a starter for the last couple years or a role player. If I were in his shoes, I know where I would want to be. I also said that I think he wants to get his next contract after the new CBA is in. Should be more cap space available and years to spead it over. His window may not be closing now but he has the foresight to position himself for his future.

Could you answer for me the impact the expiration of the CBA has on contracts and the spread of signing bonus?

All I care about with Ellis at this point is if the team can get some good value in exchange for him. He clearly doesn’t fit in with BP’s future plans for this defense and the type of players he wants to fully implement his 3-4 scheme. Everybody knows this, has known it all along, and no one needs Greg Ellis to explain it to us.

Where I think Ellis is wrong in this situation is that knowing this is the case, realizing it’s nothing personal, and also knowing he will probably benefit in numerous ways by being traded, he should shut his mouth and go enjoy his offseason. If he wants to hold a press conference or go on TV shows after a trade is finalized to offer his mea culpa on his time with the Cowboys that’s his choice. For now his career would be best served by being quiet and letting the process unfold. There will probably be more interest in him and more money for him down the road if he doesn’t come across to other GM’s as a guy who runs to the media to air his complaints about his current team or playing time situation.

Sterling-WhAt does Ellis have to apologize to Dallas for?

I am suprised that I’m all alone in my stance here. I’ll put a little on the fact that I’m the only one that saw him on the sports show that night and the fact that I’m not able to convey the same sense of quiet, good-naturedness that Ellis projected. Let me just clarify that he was actually doing the sports with the guy covering golf, BB and whatever more as a commentary guy. Of the 10 minutes he was on about 45 seconds was spent on his situation.

Sean, you’re not alone on this. I agree with you that Ellis hasn’t done anything wrong. He has always been a guy that has tried to be respectful in everything he’s done.

Sean,

I’m sure you’re not alone and to me it’s more of sign of not having anything better to tear into than any major crisis. I’m still optimistic that Ellis and the team will get what they want.

I saw a story yesterday that has Miami dangling Ricky Williams. It named Denver and one other team which escapes me as being very interested. The initial price for Williams was said to be “a high draft pick.”

To me that means a first day selection. For Ricky freakin’ Williams.

Wanting and getting are far from the same thing, but if Miami pulls this one off, Dallas should be able to get good value for either Ellis or Glover.

I guess we can agree that this situation should result in everybody winning; Cowboys get compensated for Ellis, team that Ellis signs with gets a solid citizen and strong performer, Ellis gets his chance to make a run in the final year of his contract.

RE: Ricky Williams-What is the record for the most players or draft picks ever given up for a player over their career? Williams has to set the bar pretty high due to the way he was drafted. Is there anybody in between him and Herschel Walker? Both of them are in a much different strata than anybody I can think of.

Somebody will bite on Williams. The upside will excite some folks. I would be very suprised if it involved a 1st day pick.

that’s a good question — how do Ricky and Herschel rank in compensation paid? Eric Dickerson will also rank up there.

that’s a good question — how do Ricky and Herschel rank in compensation paid? Eric Dickerson will also rank up there.