Norm talking draft on the ticket
by Or Moyal on Jan 25, 2008 10:12 AM CST
31 comments
Norm's one of the few guys in this market who goes crazy over the 'I wish I was a GM' matters, and he did a segment on friday morning concerning our draft outlook.
Norm's usually pretty well informed.
I will edit the diary with more info as the segment progresses.
Norm throws out numbers to keep in perspective:
Jerry's made deals on almost every draft day
SIXTEEN out of nineteen years he has traded a first or second rounder. Norm says this is probably a byproduct of learning from Jimmy.
In fact, in the entire history of this FRANCHISE they have only gone three drafts without making any trades.
Personal translation: Jerry (or anyone else who's run this organization, for that matter) can't sit on the sidelines. He either feels he can outsmart everyone or he can't tolerate inactivity.
Norm thinks a trade of 22 for the Dolphins' 32 and maybe some extra late rounders is possible, then retracts and says It's not probable because Bill likes picks in quantity, not quality.
He also believes we could toss Marcus Spears in with our second and swap picks.
Earlier in the year, he thought RB and WR would be the priorities. Now, he feels shoring up the secondary is more important.
At this point, my connection shorted out for a minute, I'd appreciate it if someone filled in the blanks :(
He says there are two or three defensive players he wants the second tier, then six or seven players sees on the next level.
He proposes McKelvin at 22 if the dude's stil there.
Opposes Manningham because he lacks size and doesn't have the speed to compensate. He likes Doucet a lot, because he's built more solidly than Manningham.
Says moving up to get McFadden would be asinine, as most here have stated. The Cowboys are looking for a partner, not a full-timer. He states, however, that McFadden may be the only runner off the board when we make our choice. He loves Stewart, likes Felix and is very high on Mendenhall.
He wonders, however, if he could get a similar quality of runner at 28 as he would at 22.
Caller asks about how badly Jones would be willing to overpay for McFadden. Norm says that if It's both 1s and a 4, he would not pull the trigger although McFadden+Barber would be near unstoppable.
He would, however, rather keep the picks and pick up a Jones because he's such an exemplary complement to Barber both in the running and receiving game. Says that if Jones went to a university where he was a feature back, he'd likely be a top 15 prospect.
Caller asks if the lack of speed is an issue. Norm answers by saying that with no more Jules Jones or Terry Glenn, Owens is the only guy left on this offense who can burn you for huge plays.
Caller #3 wants a lower-caliber back, i.e. Slaton, Rice, or Charles.
Norm says that Slaton will likely be available in the second, and he'd be all for picking him up there. He also would be interested in trading 22 for, let's say, 28 and a 4th- or trading up for a guy like Kenny Phillips, while taking care of the backfield with a Rice/Slaton/Hart.
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Love the Spears idea...
I'd gladly swap Spears and our 2nd for Miami's 2nd (at 32 overall). I don't like the idea of moving down 10 spots from 22 just for some late-round picks, though. For an extra first-day pick, maybe, considering the contract savings for 22nd overall vs 32nd overall.
by grapejoos on Jan 25, 2008 10:32 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Remember...
that first day is only 1st and 2nd round now.
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 25, 2008 10:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that sucks.
by kcbrett5 on Jan 25, 2008 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
there absolutely no question that Jerry will
be wheelin and dealin come draft day, that is as certain as the sun rising each morning.
by Terry on Jan 25, 2008 10:45 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Got to love Norm
He never comes to laugh when he covers the draft
Never
by gaz0425 on Jan 25, 2008 10:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm okay with the idea
Of trading down, but they would have to be EXTREMELY confident in their gradings of the players.
I want their first pick to the best CB on the board, but if there's two or three of the same guys, then okay.
I like the idea of using Spears to move up in the 2nd Round. It makes sense for both teams.
For Miami:
- Helps them run convert BACK to the 3-4
- They could take Chris Long with the first pick, take Spears, and use Traylor (even though he's old) and have a nicely-sized front 3
- If they think of it as taking Spears with their 32 pick, then it's like picking up a late round 2nd for nothing
For Dallas:
- Trade from a position of depth
- It seems like there's a dropoff in CB and WR talent somewhere in the 10-15 first picks of the second round, so this lets you get there
- Having three picks in the 22-32 range means you can get a good CB (McKelvin?), WR (Sweed, Bowman, Doucet, etc), AND a talented RB (Jones, Stewart, etc)
- Since you haven't lost a pick, you can use the 3rd rounder on someone who can backup Ratliff
I like this trade a lot. I'm concerned about the backup RB spot. I know that you can take a guy in a later round and he can end up being just as good as a first rounder, but the first round guys usually are already complete packages as far as rushing/receiving/aptitude for blocking.
Another question...would you rather have Roy Williams (with the possible baggage) or someone like Sweed/Bowman/Doucet? As much as I fear the baggage, proven WR's take time to develop and are hard to find.
by GhettoBear04 on Jan 25, 2008 10:58 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
That's a good question
My first thought was 'Hell yeah, in a heartbeat. Drafted wideouts don't work out often enough to be worth nearly as much as the other Roy.'
But consider this. Last year, we had a very healthy cap situation. 10 million to Romo has shoved us toward the middle of the pack. Now consider that D-Ware, T-New, Barber, Canty, and others will be looking at major raises within the next two years. We simply can't afford to add expensive players. So I'd have to think long and hard about adding a Roy Williams, or a Larry Fitzgerald, or even a Chad Johnson.
by Or Moyal on Jan 25, 2008 1:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if it weren't for cap space
I'd say we should go after a FA WR. I'm not sure what our odds would be of finding an under-the-radar wideout for a bargain, so we may just need to take our chances in the draft and hope for the best. It's worked for Green Bay.
by Nelson on Jan 25, 2008 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If all it takes for Run-DMC is 22+28+4th...
I do it. You keep both other first day picks, you get the best player in the draft, you get the best big play guy in the draft. If he's splitting carries next year with Barber, you get a guy that can return kicks and punts like Adrian Peterson did this year in Minnesota...
Take someone like Tracy Porter in Round 2 and a WR in Round 3...
by N41D on Jan 25, 2008 1:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
it will take a lot more than that N41D
our 2 firsts and our 4th won't even come close. Reggie Bush was also supposed to be the best player in the 2006 and look how he turned out, just a speciality player and thats what DMac is.
by Terry on Jan 25, 2008 2:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know it would take more..
But according to the original post, Norm says he wouldn't pull the trigger if all it cost were both 1's and a 4... Unless I'm reading it wrong...
As for the Bush/McFadden comparison... Well... LOL. Look how that turned out? Because 2 years makes Reggie Bush a bust? People writing Reggie Bush 2 years into his NFL career is the most asinine thing I've ever heard. Nobody expected Reggie Bush to be an elite RB between the tackles early on in his career. In fact, almost everybody said that part of his game would need some time to develop. Reggie Bush never carried to load as a RB at USC, either. And that was another question many people had about Reggie when he came out. Darren doesn't have that question. Darren carried the load. He carried an entire offense on his back and domianted the toughest conference in the country on a team without a QB and only one other real weapon in Felix Jones.
How is Darren McFadden a 'specialty' player? How are they even remotely comparable? Darren is bigger, stronger, is a more physical runner. DMac isn't just a burner like Reggie was... Completely different running styles. It's a TERRIBLE comparison.
If Darren McFadden had the type weapons around him at Arkansas that Reggie had at USC, shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhit...
by N41D on Jan 25, 2008 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree, I see McFadden as a taller version
of Bush. I can't see how you can say he's a physical runner when he usually is outrunning defenders instead of running over them. I don't see him as a guy that can take the physical punishment RBs at the pro level receive. He's 6-2, 210 and built like a WR, with skinny legs. I think he compares to Bush much more than Adrian Peterson who is built much more solid and thick.
DMac never carried the load at Arkansas, he split carries with Felix Jones. IMO, I just don't see DMac as a franchise, feature back. I think he'll be a really good player, but he won't be able to take 25-30 carries a game and be the centerpiece of an offense.
I'm not saying Bush is a bust, I'm saying as speciality back, he wasn't worth the number one overall selection in the draft and neither is DMac. He's a nice player, but I foresee him getting busted up in the NFL with that type of body if he gets a lot of carries. JMO.
by Terry on Jan 25, 2008 3:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I like McFadden
But I think he'll have a limited window in which he's good. His body won't be able to take that kind of beating for very long; one thing that stands out is the fact that he lacks great vision. He doesn't really spy out the big holes; he smashes into people, and if he gets through It's sayonara.
by Or Moyal on Jan 25, 2008 4:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know why you would ever....
...trade both of our 1st rounders alone for a top-5 pick to draft D-Mac. We can get a good RB at 30 and a CB, and both of them combined would cost a LOT less against the cap than D-Mac. As long as we're keeping MB3, that would be a horrendous use of resources.
by grapejoos on Jan 25, 2008 4:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Seems like Eric Dickerson
was 6-3, 220 an what he gained 13,000 yards
and he split carries with Craig James
Eric D had 790 carries for 4.450 yards
"I like his total package – size and speed. People say guys who run upright are easier to hit, but you have to catch us first. And if you do, we’ve got enough size to give out some punishment."
- Former SMU All-American and NFL star Eric Dickerson
"(In ranking the nation’s top running backs) At No. 1 and speaking of elite, you have to have Darren McFadden at the top of the list. He does everything for Arkansas. Not only does he carry the load, he also returns kicks, catches the ball well and is a very good blocker. He played some quarterback a year ago. The thing that really stands out to me about McFadden on tape, he is big, he is athletic and he is instinctive those are the three things. He does a great job of seeing the hole as a back. He can power over you and he can run by you. I love his athleticism. I think he is the No. 1 weapon at any position in college football this year."
- Todd McShay, ESPN (College Football Live, August 28, 2007)
you just guessing that he is not a tough runner
Felix Jones in 38 games had 386 carries
Dmac in 38 ganes had 785 carries for 4,590 yds
by Arkcowboys on Jan 25, 2008 5:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with Ark (what?!?)
If we were picking close to the top, as we thought we would be last year, McFadden would be a no-brainer, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
I have nothing against McFadden the player -- the guy's a stud. I think it's just bad business to trade away so much for him, and this includes the cap hit. Anyway, all this talk of how McFadden is not a physical runner just sounds like justification for not picking him. Most likely, he is going to get a ton of yards in the NFL.
As far Bush goes, let him return punts/kicks as he did in college. Maybe he'll break one or two off and get more confidence. He looked like a bum the second half of last year. Okay, that part was obvious. Now, I'm going to blow your mind. Line him up as receiver and and throw him the ball on some intermediate and deep routes.
Bam! Didn't see that coming, eh? I don't know why I'm not getting paid for this stuff.
by goodjobtimmyheresabluestar on Jan 25, 2008 5:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
325 Carries isn't carrying the load?
285 carries in 2006... Both good for Top 10 in the nation in carries. Darren McFadden carried as big a load in college as any RB you're going to find...
Not to mention the countless number of plays he spent as the QB of that offense? You're buggin with that one...
I do agree that McFadden could get banged up a bit with his running style, though. But that's not to say he's doomed to be a guy that can't carry the load. It's all about adjustments. He carried the ball 600 times in 2 years in the most physical conference in the country, behind an offensive line that wasn't particularly impressive, facing 8 and 9 in the box on every single down... I honestly don't see how McFadden isn't a clearly more phyiscal runner than Reggie Bush. Is he Adrian Peterson? No. But he is far more physical than Reggie ever was.
by N41D on Jan 25, 2008 8:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jerry is going to do something
whether that's moving up or trading down. He does it every year.
This year I anticipate drafting a RB at 22 and trading the 28th for Roy Williams or some other player we aren't aware of yet.
Jerry could trade down our first all together to
acquire more picks.
I disagree taken a CB with the 22nd pick. That belongs to Felix Jones.
by Cowboys81 on Jan 25, 2008 7:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
but...
I would love to swap 2nd's with the dolphins but given last seasons offseason remarks that Spears made about Parcells, I highly doubt that would work. Although I'm fine doing that deal with Fasano..
by seattletexan on Jan 25, 2008 2:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
yeah 'cuz for a TE, fasano drops a lot of passes
by kcbrett5 on Jan 25, 2008 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd deal Fasano too...
I haven't been impressed with his performance. Is he any better than Tony Curtis (3 catches, 3 touchdowns).
by BulletBob on Jan 25, 2008 4:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tony Curtis is awesome
He's our Mike Vrabel. If you throw it, he will turn it into six.
This logically calls for the dealing of Fasano, the demotion of that scrubs Witten to #2 tight end, and the permanent fixation of Tony Curtis in his spot. We will revolve our offense around blocking any defensive backs who get in his way before the ball hits him squarely in the pinky and is drawn in by magnetic forces of unrivaled magnitude, alll prior to his jet boosters propelling him across the field in a manner which renders his scoring inexorable and inevitable.
by Or Moyal on Jan 25, 2008 5:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fasano is a lot better
Don't out think ourselves people. Witten Fasano and Curtis are all young and we are set at TE position for a while. Don't rob from Peter to pay Paul as a wise man once said.
by APerfectStar on Jan 25, 2008 5:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
remember
the only reason I brought up Fasano was because even though Parcells drafted Spears (well documented)their relationship definately soured at the end.
I feel Fasano has been a dissapointment and he was also a Parcells pick so maybe he would take him instead.
by seattletexan on Jan 25, 2008 8:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he's been a disappointment
He's backing up Witten, who is All World. I think he's getting an extremely bad rap for missing a difficult catch in the playoff game.
I'd hate to trade him, bring in another rookie or more expensive vet just to pick up a 5th or 6th draft pick from BP.
I know people are throwing out some of BP's guys who they don't feel are superstars, but like BP himself said, you don't get a steak on every plate.
by APerfectStar on Jan 26, 2008 4:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Parcells not trading away early picks
That’s not Parcells modus operandi. The first year of rebuilding he wants quantity over quality. The more picks the better. He wants to trade down for more picks. Not only the first round, but any round were he can pick up some more picks. The exception may be a late round pick for a veteran (like he did with Terry Glen for a sixth round pick).
He will target "second tier" UFA’s. Guys he can rely on to give solid play for minimum financial commitment.
The second year he may address a specific need with a trade or a "top tier" UFA.
by DeRat on Jan 25, 2008 10:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
NORM'S AN IDIOT
always has been alwats will be
by Arkcowboys on Jan 25, 2008 10:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Some thoughts on FA and the Draft
If JJ learned anything from Parcells, I hope its that you don’t go into the draft in a position of dire need.
The Cowboys need VETERAN leadership. Other than splurging on a #2 WR, I favor picking up a few veterans before the draft; situational type players that can provide a veteran presence in the locker room.
I don’t think any of the receivers projected in the first two rounds this year are worthy of picks that high. With the exception of DeSean Jackson and Mario Manningham, the WRs projected in round 1 and 2 are too slow for the Cowboys needs. The Cowboys need speed, they already have Clayton and Hurd as #3 type WRs. There will be several speed WRs in the third or later rounds (Donnie Avery, Dexter Jackson, etc.). Will these guys ever develop into #2 receivers? I don’t know, that’s why I would figure out a way to clear enough CAP space to sign my own free agents and get a #2 WR via trade or in FA.
At RB, I would look for a "middle of the road" veteran in FA, by that I mean a small signing bonus and veteran minimum salary. My personal favorite is Mewelde Moore from Minnesota (but there are several worthy candidates). That would give you the option of waiting until a later round to take a RB. Perhaps take a chance on a small school stud (Jalen Parmele, Xavier Omon, etc.) in round 5 or 6.
At CB I would use the same formula, sign a FA that will take a small signing bonus and veteran minimum salary. Someone like Randall Gay of the Patriots (maybe he could bring the Patriots work ethic with him). He is not a #2 or #3 type CB but could be a contributor in the Dime package (how many rookies do you want on the field in the defensive backfield at any given time?).
With a WR, RB, CB signed before the draft, the pressure is off to "reach" in the draft. I would still focus on CB early in the draft. I’d like to take 2 in the first 3 picks! I know some will think I’m crazy, but that’s how bad I think the Cowboys CB situation has become.
Another area that I don’t see a lot of discussion on: OL, I’d like to see the Cowboys find a guy in the draft that could challenge Kosier for the starting LG position (in 2008!). A true road grader that would stop opposing defenses from stacking their alignment over BIGG on 3rd and short situations. I prefer massive college OTs with good feet that can be converted to OG and have enough potential to be moved back out to OT after a few years in the NFL. A guy I’ve had my eye on got very good reviews at the Senior Bowl practices (Carl Nicks, 6’5" 343 lbs, 35" long arms), late 2nd – early 3rd round grade before the practices began, may be moving up because he did so well.
by DeRat on Jan 25, 2008 11:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I guess these guys are not fast enuf for you
WR
Andre Caldwell, Florida
Height: 6-0. Weight: 207.
40 Time: 4.36.
Projected Round: 3-4.
Lavelle Hawkins, California
Height: 5-11. Weight: 187.
40 Time: 4.43.
Projected Round: 3.
OL
OT OG Oneil Cousins 6-5 #300 UTEP
OT Geoff Schwartz 6-7 #337 Ore
OT-OG Duane Brown 6-5 #302 Vir Tech
OT-OG Chad Rinehart, Northern Iowa 6-5 #308
by Arkcowboys on Jan 26, 2008 11:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We will see at the combine (if they run)
Not sure where you got the speeds you listed? I admit, many sites estimate the times they list, we won't know for sure until after the combine (if these guys run there, many prospects wait to run on faster tracks at their pro days). The times I have seen listed on Caldwell (4.40, 4.44, 4.41, 4.48) and Hawkins (4.48, 4.5, 4.50, 4.5).
The point I was trying to make; IMO it would be better to pass on a WR in round 1 and 2. What the Cowboys need in a WR (speed) can be had in a later round (if they don't get one in FA). The "trendy" thing in the NFL seems to be tall WR's. The problem is that few of the tall receivers run under 4.5, and they can't make sharp breaks / accelerate out of their breaks, therefore they don't get a lot of separation from the DB's. And their lack of great speed doesn't stretch the field.
Of the OL you list, I would only consider Schwartz in the roadgrader class (330+), and I fear he may be too tall to play guard. Its tough for the taller OT to keep proper leverage when shifted inside to OG. Not to say he couldn't. When I watched Oregon play this year, he wasn't someone I focused on. He is currently projected as a late second day pick or UDFA.
by DeRat on Jan 28, 2008 2:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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