Tony Romo vs Eli Manning
by Helene on Oct 1, 2008 2:53 PM CDT
Email
PrintI happened to be listening to a show called The thundering herd (ESPN podcast, I know, I know :-)
The reporter was comparing the 2 quaterback on their last 8 games.
Romo - 8 games - Whas - at GB - Philliy - at Clev and dated last year NYG - at WASH - at Car - Philly
His passing % is 57, with 10 picks.
Where Eli in 8 games playing twice NE and 3 road games playing in Tampa, in Dallas and GB plus 3 games this year has a % of 62.8 and only 3 picks.
The reporter thinks it's a question of surroundings. He is not a Dallas hater, likes the cowboys and Romo.
I am not an expert at discussing stats and football qualities but I thought that was an interesting comparison, and I'd like your opinion on that, as you know a lot better this game and the cowboys as I do.
Another user-created commentary provided by a BTB reader.
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Its a perfect of example of using certain stat lines to prove your point..
Using the games from last year is a cop out in my opinion. The last 3 games of the season Romo had a) his worst game as a professional b) was hurt and c) just couldn’t give a damn and was forcing the ball to Witten trying for a record (@Wash). Romo also threw the ball a lot more in the playoff game as the Cowboys were trying too hard to come from behind. Just too small a group of games to make an accurate comparison, especially considering they came at different parts of the season compared to the other.
This is no way is a knock on Manning either. He did a pretty damn good job of not making mistakes in the playoffs and making the plays when needed. I just don’t think its an accurate way to compare the two, if that is what you are trying to do.
This is why I was asking others for opinion
It’s true you can turn stats the way you want, and it is difficult to compare 2 players especially if they play against totally different teams. Actually, I am more interested in looking at Tony’s stats for this season and by the way, Romo is ranked 6th and Eli 12th :)
Well.....
Romo has played in one more game than the Giants. And two of those were against the Bengals and Rams. The Rams, dude.
by Brandon Worley on Oct 1, 2008 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not twisting stats.
Eli played better down the stretch and was Super Bowl MVP.
by Baked Potato Soup on Oct 1, 2008 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry baked but I'm sick of hearing this
If Asante did’t have butter fingers, that’s an easy INT and the Pats are the best team ever. Eli threw THREE passes on that last drive (4 if you count the Tyree miracle) that should have been intercepted.
Then he throws a heave into double or triple coverage and Tyree bails him out big time.
He was MVP because he’s the QB. Everyone knows the real MVP of that game (and the entire playoffs for them) was any one of the guys on the D-Line. The Super Bowl MVP should have probably been Justin Tuck, with 2 sacks and a FF.
Everyone forgets Eli had 3 turnovers in that game. 2 fumbles and an INT.
Plain and simple, the defense and David Tyree bailed him out.
For god’s sake I could have thrown that TD to Plaxico after that injured CB fell on his face.
I hear you but
You have to respect a starting QB who beat the only NFL team to go 18-0 and won the Super Bowl MVP. The Giants had some lucky breaks, but they won that game totally legitimately. For the same reasons that I don’t bury Romo for the loss to E. Manning, I don’t over-value Manning because of the MVP.
I value him highly right now because, hell, he lead his team to 4 straight playoff road victories, and his team is currently undefeated. We are talking about who has been the best QB in the last 8 games. In the last 8 games, Manning has a better record, has beaten Romo in the playoffs and won the Super Bowl. Yeah, I would say he is having a better last 8 games than Romo, which is one of the worst stretches of Romo’s career despite some good play.
I would not trade Romo for Manning. But come on, respect is due to the man. Larry Brown was a luckier MVP winner than Manning was.
I just think QB's get too much credit and too much criticism
If Crayton remembers how to catch, Romo is a hero and Eli is still a choker. If the line remembers how to block, Romo is a hero and Eli is still a choker. If anyone but Jacques Reeves is playing CB (especially that last drive of the 1st half) Romo is a hero and Eli is still a choker.
Do you really truely believe it was the QB who beat the only NFL team to go 18-0? Or was it the defense that knocked Tom Brady to the ground 20+ times?
Once again, he threw three typical Eli passes during that last drive that should have been picked off. Luckily for them, they were not.
I wouldn't trade Romo for Eli.
However, Eli has played better to end last season and start this season. He has a better record, better stats, and his team beat the Cowboys head to head. Plus, whether or not he had help, he was the Super Bowl MVP. I know that if, if, if, but what happened was Romo’s receivers didn’t make catches, and he lost another first round playoff game. Eli’s team made the plays, won the Super Bowl, and haven’t lost yet this season. When it was time to make plays, he did.
Like I keep saying, all Romo’s got to do to shut everyone up is win in the playoffs. Until he does, it’s tough to argue that he’s clearly better than guys who have.
by Baked Potato Soup on Oct 1, 2008 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah, but what mhuff is saying
is that QBs can’t win games all by themselves as you’re implying. Eli had the the better record, better stats and his team beat the Cowboys because of the other 44 guys he had around him, he didn’t go out and compete with Romo in a head to head competition (which if was the case he’d lose badly)
Teams win and lose games, not QBs, although they play the most important position on the field, they are very much dependent on their OL, receivers, RBs and defense in any given game to be successful. The real MVP of SB XLII was the GMen’s DL, not Eli.
mhuff really hit the nail on the head when he said QBs get too much credit and too much blame for wins and loses, there isn’t a bigger truth in the game.
In Romo we Trust
Once again too much credit to the QB, and too much criticism
You said ‘he lost another first round playoff game’. No he didn’t. The Dallas Cowboys did.
I can see your point
If the D holds, we win, and Romo throws for 300yds and 3 TD’s looks like another great outing..
Eli vs that same redskin defense week 1 threw for 216 yds, 0 TD’s, and Int, but got the win..
"If you see me up in the mountains with a lion, I ain't lyin
don't help me, help the mountain lion"
man
The Giants D is better because of scheme, not personnel. Brian Stewart has to be on a short leash?
"If you see me up in the mountains with a lion, I ain't lyin
don't help me, help the mountain lion"
that leash will be this season
If the defense doesn’t eventually become a championship caliber defense by the end of the season and we get ousted in the playoffs because of their poor play, both he and Phillips are gone.
Jerry hired Phillips to fix the defense so if it doesn’t get fixed, he’s out, Garrett gets promoted to HC and Jerry brings in another 3-4 DC.
In Romo we Trust
Is he not a member of the Cowboys?
Are you saying that QB play is not largely responsible for wins and losses in this league. I think there is validity to the argument that QB play is what separated the Cowboys from the Giants during the regular season when the Cowboys won, and again in the playoffs when they lost. Romo’s turnovers this year have been especially costly, since they were largely responsible for keeping the Eagles game close, kept the Packers game close longer than it should have been, and I think it was the key moment in the Redskins game.
If this and if that works for one game, but there seems to be a clear trend at work here. Besides, you can’t tell me that Romo doesn’t get just as lucky as Eli. If Eli has better stats, better record, better results in the playoffs, and his team won when they played, I don’t really know what argument there is that Romo has been better. The Giants are not more talented than the Cowboys. It’s equal, if anything.
by Baked Potato Soup on Oct 2, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly
Some QBs DO carry their teams. Sometimes it’s the defense, sometimes a running back. For NYG it was and is the front seven. For the Pats it was Brady and Manning for the Colts. Eli is a good, solid QB, but he’s not better than Romo, or Brees or even Rivers because his team won the Super Bowl. The numbers game in and game out tell you who he is – a solid, middle of the road NFL QB.
But that said, I think he is still improving, as are Romo and Campbell, so he may very well be an elite QB by the end of his career.
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
I agree in part
Because Eli threw more picks then Romo last year and Romo threw for more TD’s last year..
I do think Romo needs to cut down on his int’s.. One a game is too many, especially since none of them have been tipped.
"If you see me up in the mountains with a lion, I ain't lyin
don't help me, help the mountain lion"
I love Cowherd, but he doesn't like the Cowboys.
Herd is a Parcells homer and loves to knock on the Cowboys because he knows they are popular and it will generate ratings and controversy.
That said, Manning was Super Bowl MVP, and Tony and the Boys fell apart in the stretch run and playoffs for a second straight year. It’s very simple for Romo and the Cowboys to shut everyone up – “Just Win, Baby!” Thanks, Al, you crazy bastard.
by Baked Potato Soup on Oct 1, 2008 3:25 PM CDT reply actions
favors his agrument?
Thru 3 games- A sample of the current season.
Romo
892 yds 67.23 completion % 5 tds 3 ints
Eli
765 yds 61.26 completion % 4 tds 1 int
What QB would you rather have?
"If you see me up in the mountains with a lion, I ain't lyin
don't help me, help the mountain lion"
Push.
Throw in that one is the reigning Super Bowl MVP and one has made critical errors and gotten bounced in the playoffs the last 2 years, and if I didn’t know who they were, I’ll take the guy with championships and less turnovers. Tell me it’s Romo and Eli, and I’ll take Romo, but I don’t think those numbers show Romo to be a better QB – 1 more TD and 2 more turnovers.
An 8 game sample covers the playoffs or end of last season, and this season so far.
by Baked Potato Soup on Oct 1, 2008 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Do you think those numbers would be different
If anyone on our team played the Redskins game besides Romo and Witten? And he was forcing Witten the ball to get a record? Not to mention that he played what, 1 series in the second half?
No.
Didn’t everyone on our team play in the playoffs, when we lost to Eli and the Giants? That’s the Cowboys problem right there. It’s never that Romo played poorly, it’s that his team played poorly, or something else happened, or that we have to take the bad with the good. Well, his team didn’t bobble the snap on a chip shot field goal, or throw an interception with the game on the line. The Seattle game is inarguable, but If you honestly believe that Dallas doesn’t win the playoff game last year if Romo plays better, then I guess we have to agree to disagree.
They played the Redskins full strength and supposedly improved this year and still lost, and the Giants wrecked them. In the past 8 games, we’ve lost 4 times to our division rivals, and the Giants have lost zero. I’m not saying that I think Eli is better, just that he is good and has played better so far this year and at the end of last year. Now, if Romo doesn’t do better in the playoffs this year, I might change my mind.
by Baked Potato Soup on Oct 2, 2008 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Romo bobbled the snap as a holder
His play a the QB position that game was pretty good. Everyone wants to look at that bobble but keeps forgetting Terry Glenn fumbled at the goal line earlier which hurt us even more. Also, even if the Cowboys kick that FG, the probability of Seattle taking the ball down the field in 3 minutes to kick a game winning FG is very high.
Regarding his only INT in the Giants game, yes the game was on the line which made it imperative for him to force the ball down the field with only seconds left to try to score a TD. Nobody was open so he had to throw it somewhere. To fault him in that situation is pretty lame IMO. I’ve seen both Brady and Manning throw INTs in that same scenario in the playoffs and I’m sure Eli would have done the same.
In Romo we Trust
What happened, happened.
Romo was the last Cowboy to touch the ball in their playoff losses, and they lost both games on their last offensive play. If a running back drops a pass, should we excuse him because he’s technically a receiver on that play? Or if Romo takes off running and fumbles, it doesn’t count because he’s a runner on that play? People also forget that if Jason Witten gets half a yard, they don’t even have to kick that field goal. But because Romo hasn’t consistently played well late in the season, and he and his team haven’t won in the playoffs, it’s just ifs and excuses until he does. Believe me, I want him to kick ass, not make mistakes, and win the Super Bowl and be Super Bowl MVP as much as anyone. That doesn’t mean I have to think he is infallible and unquestioningly support him and refuse to acknowledge his mistakes. Or that I can’t admit when another QB is playing well.
The big knocks on Romo is that he turns the ball over too much and can’t win at the end of the season and in the playoffs. Brady and both Mannings have been able to win it all, so they don’t have the same knocks. Thus far this year, Romo is turning the ball over a lot, so people are wondering if he has actually improved. Since the playoffs are a long way off, all they can look at is how he has been playing. In comparison, Eli has played better so far. That doesn’t make Romo a bad QB or mean that he can’t improve. In fact, I really, really, really hope that he improves. I think he can be on the same level as Brady or anyone else, but he has to cut down on the mistakes.
It’s one of those things, though. He can keep saying that he’s improved, but until he has a solid stretch without making mistakes, it’s hard to believe. If he hasn’t improved in that area, it’s hard to believe that he will be improved down the stretch. I think he will, but so far, he looks the same as last year.
by Baked Potato Soup on Oct 2, 2008 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I think there is a big difference between
a RB receving a pass, a QB running the ball and being a holder for a FG, especially considering he shouldn’t have been doing that job to begin with after he was named the starter. As a QB, and thats what he truly is, he played well in the Seattle loss.
Furthermore, I’m not arguing that Romo didn’t make mistakes in those two playoff losses, that he is infallible or that Eli didn’t play well in the playoffs last year. My argument is that you can’t judge Romo soley on whether his team wins or loses in the playoffs, and that goes for any QB. Romo is always going to make mistakes but he’s also going to make big plays, its a trade off all Cowboys fans simply have to live with if they want to remain a fan of the team because its not going to change until he retires.
You say Peyton don’t have those same knocks because he won a SB, however, before he did win he had the same criticism which doesn’t make sense at all. Manning is no better now than he was before he won a SB but for some reason he’s now forgiven of all the past playoff losses because he now won a SB. That simply is not fair and the same applies to Romo. The kid has only played for 2 seasons, he hasn’t even come close to reaching his potential yet. Everyone needs to realize he is still young and a developing QB and will improve greatly as time goes on.
In Romo we Trust
I'm with you.
Hey, I bought my girl the pink #9, and I’ll buy myself a nice #9 as soon as we win in the playoffs. I agree that it’s only been 2 years, and Peyton used to have the same knock. Unfortunately, until Tony gets it done, people will say that he can’t. Even if he stinks up the joint, if the Cowboys win it all this year, most criticism of him will go away. It might not be fair, ask Dan Marino, but that’s how it is. Just as we must live with his mistakes to get big plays, we must also live with people saying he can’t win in the playoffs and that he makes too many mistakes. It’s a double edged sword. However, that doesn’t mean that fans shouldn’t expect him to improve, or that Eli didn’t improve. I’d like to see Romo make that same jump this year, and I think it has to start in the regular season. Ironically, I usually take your position when I’m not on this board, but among other Cowboys and Romo fans, I feel like it’s okay to scrutinize him a little. It’s like it’s okay for you to criticize your friends, but you don’t want other people doing it. I know I’m a big Romo fan and defend him everywhere else except among other Cowboys fans. Since I know that we all think he’s great, I can look at him a little more harshly here.
by Baked Potato Soup on Oct 2, 2008 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I think people on this site
get the impression that I won’t stand for Romo to be criticized but thats not true at all. If Romo plays bad, he plays bad, however what gets my blood boiling is when bloggers on this site who are supposed to be Cowboys fans constantly throw him under the bus when we lose or even during games when he throws an INT. They’ll rip into him but won’t criticize other players who also made mistakes as well. He seems to be singled out for some reason.
While its true that a QBs play is more visible and their mistakes seem more crucial, its just unfair to place a loss on the shoulders of one player unless its truly justified like if we had lost to the Bills last season, sure that loss is all on Romo, no doubt.
I just think fans need to accept Romo for what he is, an agggresive, gun slinging QB who will make a lot of big plays along with some big time mistakes. He can curve the mistakes to a degree, but they’ll never go completely away. Its the same as accepting T.O.‘s drops as a receiver, they’re going to happen, but he’s also going to catch a lot for big plays and TDs.
I think its always fair to criticize players, saying they played bad, threw bad passes, whatever, but to blame them or judge them unfairly is wrong as a fan, at least IMO anyway.
In Romo we Trust
True.
But sometimes people on this site, such as myself, don’t really consider themselves bloggers. I know that’s what they are if they’re posting here, but I think a lot of times, they just come here as fans to commiserate or celebrate with fellow Cowboys fans. I’m solidly between Bucs and Dolphins country, and this is the only place I can come to talk Cowboys. Sure, we’re probably a little tough on them sometimes, but also probably give them too much credit sometimes, too. We’re not always trying to be reporters or bloggers, sometimes it’s just expressing frustration or happiness.
by Baked Potato Soup on Oct 2, 2008 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Hell yeah.
Everybody forgets the Terry Glenn fumble. I always bring that up.
by Carl Shelton (GloryDayz88) on Oct 3, 2008 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions
My point was the stat sample taken is jacked up
Romo had 1 game where he played 1 half, with only 1 of his normal weapons.
I'll give you their blog site and you
can join all the other Eli worshippers. But he’s a false idol and you’ll be turned to stone, mark my words.
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
I heard that show
He was trying to sell his argument to Peter “Coffee Bean” King of all people. Coffee Bean said he didn’t believe Romo’s surrounding cast (Jessica, TO, Garrett and Wade) were a detriment to Tony’s development over Eli’s surrounding cast (The Manning(s), Wife, Gilbride and Coughlin).
But he did agree that Eli’s performance has improved since last season, especially with regard to handling pressure. However, to this point the only team they’ve faced with a credible pass rush was Washington.
I like the TD/INT ratio from the Manning kid myself. Romo is looking at a 60% INT/TD ratio, not good if that trend continues. Jake Plummer would cringe at those numbers.
To clarify
After all 4 games this season, Tony has thrown 8 TD’s and 4 INT’s, so it is a 50% ratio. Still could be better, but that is the edge of acceptable. Last year it was 36 TD’s and 19 INT’s, which is 52% ratio.
"So you can’t stiff arm at all? What about the throat?"- Marion "Barbarian" Barber
The sample was 3 games
I think since Eli was the comparison here and he’s only played 3 games to this point.
This one is easy........
Eli is better over the last 8 games – thats clear.
I would rather have Romo over the long haul – thats clear.
One of the big turnoffs to this blog is the absense of a rational thought from the homers. Then again, that is what a team blog is all about. It should not be surprising though since 75 different people show up on this blog during a game – A GAME. I can just see you guys sitting on your couch in your basement watching the game in your gear – with a computer in your lap. WITH A COMPUTER IN YOUR LAP! I love Grizz’s commentary – and I love the central collection of news – but I had to get that off my chest.
I feel better now.
Long Live Teague - the defender of the STAR
Well, it's not actually in my lap...
See I have this intricate setup:
Next to my Dallas Cowboys embroidered leather recliner, I have a table with my laptop and notebook on it. On the laptop the blog is open, along with the DMN blog and the gamecenter for the game. Its in easy reach so I don’t have to move much to type, but it’s also out of the way so that when a big play occurs, I can jump out of my seat without knocking it over. I also have another table to my left that has my official Dallas Cowboys beer stein that I drink out of, with my chips and salsa in my official Dallas Cowboys snack bowls. I try to keep a good supply on hand, that way I only have to go to the kitchen during halftime. Luckily I also have a restroom in the basement, that way I only have to move 6 feet to go to the bathroom and can still see the TV.
by Brandon Worley on Oct 2, 2008 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Well said.....I still think your a nerd : )
Long Live Teague - the defender of the STAR
Here's how you manipulate numbers to show your opinion
Take that to 10 games, only 2 games higher than 8. Here are the numbers:
Romo 2561 yards, 16td, 11int, 61%
Manning 2165 yards, 15td, 5int, 42%
So just add 2 games and his completion % drops by 20%.
ya, but look at the Int to TD Ratio!
I never have had the opinion that Romo is the messiah, because of his tendency to throw the int. I am not a Romo hater either. I think he has alot of the qualities needed to be a very good or even great QB. But , until he fine tunes his game he will only be good in my book.
You're making his point for him.
He’s saying that Romo is declining and Eli is rising. Going farther back to show when Romo played better and Eli played worse only proves his point. For whatever reason, Romo is turning the ball over a lot lately, especially for an elite QB, and in costly situations, such as in the Red Zone and in Cowboys territory. I don’t agree that it’s because of Jessica Simpson or whatever, but he does need to improve.
by Baked Potato Soup on Oct 2, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
42% completion.....
Romo is Favre reincarnated. Take the good with the bad.
Eli is a bus driver, pure and simple.
You have to go with Manning right now..
Romo is unproven. Eli has the hardware. Eli was mistake prone early in his career so you can’t use that argument against him. Now every time we go into the red zone or in a critical situation one has to worry about Romo throwing a pick. Eli is a game manager and he has cut down the mistakes. He may not be in an offense quite as explosive as Romo, but Romo has a lot more weapons. Eli has matured as a player and will continue to improve his game. As it stands right now Eli gets the nod.
It's Romo's turn.
I agree with you completely, but I’m hoping Tony makes the same leap this year. I think he can. If he does, there’s no stopping these guys.
by Baked Potato Soup on Oct 2, 2008 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
One can hope
As I Cowboys fan I hope that it is his turn, but Romo worries me in critical situations. Manning has really stepped up his game and will only continue to get better. He may not be as flashy as Romo, but look at his weapons and look at Romo’s. I’ll take a championship over passing yards and TDs any day.
On that note, Jason Campbell’s stock is rising. Let’s just hope he crashes and burns lol. The NFC East is going to be brutal for the next 5 years.
Just remember
Trent Dilfer has that same hardware.
And is last season early in Eli’s career? People are forgetting that around week 13 they were ready to run him out of town.
Eli’s numbers last year, 20 int and 4 lost fumbles. 24 turnovers. Romo had 19 and 2.
Eli shored up his mistakes in the postseason, and was the epitome of a bus driver. Just don’t screw the game up and your defense will win it for you.
He had 24 turnovers last year, yet he was mistake prone early in his career….
In 2005 he had 17 int and 2 fumbles. In 2006 he had 18 int and 2 fumbles. In 2007 he had 20 int and 4 fumbles. No, later in his career he was more mistake prone.
Comparing Manning to Dilfer
is Cowboys homerism. Eli is proven Romo is a question mark. I want you to make me a believer, but bringing up stats from the past just don’t work. The fact remains that right now Eli is the man. I hope Romo can cut down critical mistakes and lead the Cowboys to the Super Bowl, but we will not find out until this season is over.
Homer or not, I'm not sold on Eli
He had more turnovers last year than any year in his career.
For 4 games in the playoffs he was a Big Ben type bus driver, and his defense carried him to a championship.
He didn’t even play that good in the Super Bowl. He had 3 turnovers, and if Tyree didn’t bail him out the Pats are the best team ever. The CB covering Plaxico fell on his face, and even Drew Henson could have completed the game winning touchdown.
Right now Eli is the man? You gotta be kidding me. If this season, for the entire season, he does what he’s done these first 3 games…then I’ll be the first to admit I was wrong.
They played a Redskins team that was playing their first game in a new scheme, and the defense dominated the Skins. He was 19-35 (54%) with 0 TD and 1 INT. That’s the only good team they’ve played, and he didn’t exactly light it up.
Then they play the Bungles and “The Rams dude” and he does good and all of a sudden he’s a changed man. Come back to me when he’s played well against a good defense this year.
I don't understand that logic
that a qb can only become proven if he wins a SB, but is a question mark if he doesn’t, that makes no sense to me at all.
Under that logic, Marino, Fouts and Tarkenton are unproven, even though they are in the HOF, but Dilfer, Hostetler and Johnson are proven because they won a SB although those guys won’t sniff the HOF.
Fact is Romo is every bit as proven as Eli as far as being a good NFL qb, Eli only has a ring because his team played better, he didn’t win in the playoffs all by himself.
In Romo we Trust
We'll just agree to disagree
I think the Giants won because he didn’t pull the usual Eli and throw the game away.
Pure bus driver, living on a defense that played out of their minds for 4 games.
dude
the giant outscored opponents 59-32 in the 4th quarter over their last 5 games
bus driver (at least to me) implies game management.
like eli or hate eli he was clutch when it mattered
sure the pats dropped int’s but that is life. take away the tuck rule call and brady’s legend is much weaker. take away the immaculate reception and bradshaw’s legend is diminished, jackie smith makes the catch and dallas is the team of the 70’s, if harper doesn’t go over davis to steal the ball the 49ers are the team of the 90’s, if a receiver (maybe irvin – i have repressed the memory) doesnt slip on the mud in candlestick then eric davis doesn’t pick six and dallas is the best team ever. slips, drops and bad calls define the game. if vinitari misses a kick or two the patriots are the second coming of the bills.
football is a game of inches and rightly or wrongly players’ legacies are defined by winning.
so far eli has won and romo has not.
the good thing is that these things change in heartbeat — there was a point where peyton was seen as a choke artist, now he is a champion (see also steve young)
if romo starts winning games that matter all this goes away. until then regular season wins dont feel that good and losses hurt a lot. until then romo is the guy who dropped the snap and gave away the game in seattle. (and terry saying its romo the special teams player is insane, it romo the athlete in the clutch) i am well aware this is unfair and if fasano holds onto the ball romo put into this breadbasket this thread might not exist, but things are what they are and fair or unfair until romo wins something that matter he is subject to lots of unfair criticism. at least he gets paid millions of dollars and gets to play a game for a living.
until we win, we have to let people say eli is the king of the world. excuses are for losers, let’s stop making them.
Romo and Eli don't win games
The Cowboys and Giants win and lose games.
Eli didn’t become great just because his team won a SB just like Dilfer, Hostetler, Plunkett and Johnson didn’t become great QBs because their teams won SBs.
In Romo we Trust
well
That is a fair point, then again neither did Montana, Staubach, Bradshaw, Unitas, Aikman, Brady, Manning, etc. They didn’t win any games, the 49ers, Cowboys, Steelers, Colts, Cowboys, Patriots, Colts won. However, fairly or not, QB’s are associated as winners (rather than the fullbacks or right guards on those teams).
Terry, you can’t talk about how great Romo is under pressure and how the game is never to big for him them claim he doesnt have an outsized role in the teams results.
When the team wins Romo will get more than his fair share share of credit, When it loses he gets more than his fair share of the blame. Fair? Nope. Life? Yep. The only exception to this rule is if you are Brett Favre, then nothing is your fault…….
Let's take a look at the last 5 games in the fourth quarter....
Pats game, regardless of what I said it’s the Super Bowl so I’ll give him some credit. 14-7 in 4th.
Skins game, no points scored in 4th quarter.
Bungles game, 13-10 in 4th quarter and overtime.
“The Rams dude” 21-7 in 4th quarter and 7 of that was a defensive TD
Seahawks game, 7-0 in 4th quarter and Eli didn’t throw that TD.
So this season, the Giants have outscored the opposition 41-17 in the 4th quarter. 1 defensive TD, and 1 TD without Eli, so that’s 27-17 in the 4th quarter with Eli. And the last 27 were against winless teams.
The Giants have played the Skins, who now look like a force (they were in chaos in week 1 with a new scheme), the Rams dude, the Bungles, and a 1-3 Seahawks team. That’s a combined 5-13, and possibly 2 of the 3 worst teams in football.
We have played a disappointing Browns team (equal to Seahawks imo), the Eagles who were the toast of the town even after we beat them, the Packers who were the toast of the town before we beat them, the Skins, and the Bungles. Combined 9-15 record.
Come back to me when Eli has played some more good teams.
BUS DRIVER
Manning has cut down on his mistakes because he is not trying so hard to make plays.
I agree though that Romo needs to take a good hard look at his turnovers and work at cutting them down.
There's absolutely no doubt
That Romo is still a work in progress, and absolutely needs to cut down on his mistakes.
I’m not trying at all to say that Romo is perfect. I’m just sick of hearing about how amaizing Eli is. It’s crap.
You mean when TO threw himself that long TD?
He gets bailed out and he does the bailing. That’s why it’s a team sport. In some ways you could say that offense bailed out the defense. Or both of them bailed out the special teams. Or all of them bailed out the coaching.
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
Tony Romo, the Favrian Gunslinger
Wow. Having read through this extensive chain, it is obvious that people are all over the board and also obvious that their opinions are pretty strong. I won’t try to change any opinions here – I’ll just put my two cents worth in just in case anyone is interested.
There has been a lot of talk about Tony Romo being the next Brett Favre. I think Grizz (correctly) referred to him a few weeks back as the True Heir to the Brett Favre Legacy (my apology if I didn’t get that correct). He is extensively being referred to on this blog as a Gunslinger, whereby you get the good with the bad (if you want 38 td’s, you’re going to get 15-20 picks). Proponents of this view believe that the good outweighs the bad. I’m going to refer to this style of quarterbacking as Favrian Gunslinger.
I believe that the media (especially ESPN), the Cowboys organization and the fans are all encouraging Tony Romo to be a Favrian Gunslinger. Having grown up in Wisconsin, I think Tony Romo wants to be that guy. I also believe this is a terrible mistake.
A Favrian Gunslinger can be a very good regular season qb, for two reasons. First, they generally have more good games than bad. Second, against bad teams you can still win when your Favrian Gunslinger has a bad game. Sound familiar?
However, Brett Favre was a really bad playoff quarterback. The reason is simple. To be successful in the playoffs, you need to put together 3-4 good games in a row. Favrian Gunslingers rarely do that. It might be the Division Round, the NFC Championship or the Super Bowl – the odds are that a Favrian Gunslinger is going to have a bad game. And when that happens in the playoffs against a good team, you lose.
It is my assertion that for the Dallas Cowboys to be a Super Bowl team over the next 5-8 years, Tony Romo must change how he plays the game. I had great hopes before the season started that Romo would mature as a qb and tone down his game on his own. I now believe that he won’t do it by himself. It must come from Jerry Jones, Jason Garrett and Wade Phillips. They must get him to stop taking chances. Look at Jason Campbell – right now he is a more effective qb than Romo simply because he doesn’t turn the ball over at an alarming rate like Romo does. Does anyone really believe that Jason Campbell is more talented than Tony Romo? Of course not! But the way he plays the game makes him more effective.
Tony Romo needs to be reigned in to the point where he throws about 25-30 td’s and less than 10 interceptions. He needs to stop forcing the ball. He needs to stop trying to make something out of nothing – more often than not leading to a fumble. He needs to be ok with throwing the ball away, taking a sack and being ok with trying to get ‘em on the next series.
One more point on this as it relates to Jerry Jones. I have been one of his strongest backers on this blog and notwithstanding what I’m about to write, I still believe he is one of the best GM’s. Jerry Jones is in love with the idea of a Favrian Gunslinger as the qb of the Dallas Cowboys. It is huge from a popularity standpoint and it is a cash cow. But he needs to change his view on this one and embrace a more Troy Aikman like approach for Tony Romo. If that means he sells a few less jerseys and he sees his team on Sportscenter a little less, so be it.
Anyway, that’s my two cents.
by Cowboy Louie on Oct 8, 2008 7:56 AM CDT reply actions
Thats a pretty good assessment...
I never liked Favre that much because he couldn’t keep his picks down. John Elway was the same way for a long time, and he finally won when he quit trying to make EVERY play himself. Maybe it’s just ego, and selfishness unaware to think you can always pull something out no matter what, but without this mentality would he be as good?
Where do you draw the line in a game between crazy brave, and just plain stupid? Staubach (under) threw into double coverage on the “Hail Mary” pass. Seems to me that worrying won’t do any good, it’s been waxed poetically on the silver screen that, “Stupid is as stupid does”. The whole of the answer won’t be known until the post season starts.
I don't want a scared QB
To be successful in this league, you have to take chances. I agree, worrying won’t do any good at all.
Boy, do I disagree
I don’t buy that for a minute Terry.
Mike Holmgren had success in reining in Favre, and indeed Favre’s most successful (and ONLY successful!) post seasons were the ones where Holmgren forced Favre to scale back his gunslinger approach. When Holmgren departed for Seattle, Favre went right back to his gunslinger ways and his awful playoff record since 1997 reflects that.
We all better hope that your assertion that “Romo is who he is and thats not going to change” isn’t true. It is very unlikely that Tony Romo will lead the Dallas Cowboys to a Super Bowl victory if he continues to be a turnover machine. In fact, the opposite is true: Tony Romo’s gunslinger style of play will be a major contributing factor to the Cowboys losing in the playoffs.
We have seen this style of quarterbacking playing out now over the last 8-10 games and the results are not pretty. Another first round playoff loss. Eight straight games with a pick. An offense that consistently lets other teams stay close by giving up points and field position. I refuse to find this acceptable and I will not learn to live with it.
Furthermore, I’m not buying this excuse set forth about Romo only being a starter for two years, that he has a lot of growing up and maturing to do, blah, blah. He has been in the league for what – five years now? He needs to get the message loud, clear and consistently from the Cowboys organization that this style of quarterbacking is unacceptable. Will that message be delivered? Unfortunately, I don’t think this coaching staff has the ability to do so and to this point the owner seems to not think it is a priority.
Based on the play we have seen so far, I really don’t like where this season is headed. To me, it looks like about 10-6 and another early exit from the playoffs. Maybe the wild card round, maybe the division round – but barring a change in style of play, it is very likely that in an important playoff game Romo will toss about two picks and throw in a fumble for good measure, the combination of which will seal our fate. And Whiskey Wade will be proud of his team for putting forth a good effort.
We can act as if all is well and good with our 4-1 team, but deep down even those of us who wear the most rose of rose-colored glasses know all is not right with this team, and we also know the prospects for this season are not nearly as good as we had hoped. Much of that is due to our gunslinger quarterback play.
by Cowboy Louie on Oct 8, 2008 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Much of our prospects for this season not being as good
Are solely on the defense and coaching.
Sorry but if not for Romo, there would be no expectations. We’d be wondering who next year’s crop of QB’s in the draft would be our savior.
How soon we forget that Ryan Leaf started a game for us not that long ago.
replys
"Much of our prospects for this season not being as good are solely on the defense and coaching." Defense and coaching certainly are problems, but they are by no means the sole reason. The quarterback plays a large role in the success or failure of every NFL franchise. There are problems all over the place with this squad. They are bubbling just below the surface but they may explode with a loss at AZ this Sunday.
"Sorry but if not for Romo, there would be no expectations. We’d be wondering who next year’s crop of QB’s in the draft would be our savior." BS. This team is loaded with talented players and the expectations would be very high with quite a few guys as the starting qb.
"How soon we forget that Ryan Leaf started a game for us not that long ago." Please don’t assume I have forgotten any of the eleven quarterbacks who started between Aikman and Romo. It is a sorry list, but every one of those qb’s was also saddled with a very poor offensive team, whereas Romo has the benefit of a very, very good offensive supporting cast.
Look, Romo is a very talented, very exciting player. I’m not denying that and I am very happy that he is the quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys – for now. My assertion continues to be that, assuming the goal is to win the Super Bowl, that Romo’s gunslinger play is bad for the Cowboys in the long run. He simply must stop being a turnover machine in order to take his game to the next level. And I do not think he can do that without playing a less risky, more intelligent game.
by Cowboy Louie on Oct 9, 2008 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions
And also, why people keep pinning the playoff loss on Romo is beyond me
He was 18-36 201 yards 1 td and 1 int.
The INT was the last play of the game, when he had to force something to try to make a play on 4th down. That was his only turnover.
If Crayton remembers how to catch in that game, Romo has 3 td and Eli is still the choker he was before the playoffs started last year.
If Reeves knows how to cover Plaxico on that last drive of the first half, Eli is still the choker he was.
If the line knows how to block anything at all, Romo shreds that secondary.
More than a QB does a win or loss make.
I disagree Louie
Tony has only one INT in his last 2 playoffs games and that was a disparation throw in the endzone at the end of the game he had to throw. Otherwise he has committed no turnovers from the QB position in his 2 playoff games.
I think Tony knows he has to reign it in a little during the playoffs, you’re not giving him enough credit in this regard.
In Romo we Trust
I disagree Louie
Tony has only one INT in his last 2 playoffs games and that was a disparation throw in the endzone at the end of the game he had to throw. Otherwise he has committed no turnovers from the QB position in his 2 playoff games.
I think Tony knows he has to reign it in a little during the playoffs, you’re not giving him enough credit in this regard.
In Romo we Trust
Let's look at the start to their careers?
First 31 games:
Manning: 546-1007, 54.2, 6590 yards, 6.5 ypa, 45td, 35int, 74.9 rating, 18-13 record
Romo: 659-1019, 64.7, 8482 yards, 8.3 ypa, 66td, 37int, 97.1 rating, 23-8 record
By the way, that QB rating will put Romo at 2nd in NFL history once he’s thrown 1500 passes.
And in their first 2 playoff games?
Manning: 26-45, 274 yards, 2td, 4int 0-2 record
Romo: 35-65, 390 yards, 2td, 1int 0-2 record
Remind me again who was the #1 overall pick and who was the undrafted rookie free agent? Just imagine next year when Romo is in his 3rd full year as a starter, like Eli was last year. It will look like night and day, considering Eli still blew last year.
don't get me wrong
I am with you guys here on Romo and Eli, I think Romo is far and away the better player and anyone objective would take Romo over Eli to win a game. That being said the one stat you left out of the playoff line, probably intentionally, is completion percentage. You’ll see that Manning is 57% and Romo 54%. Not that big of a difference, however, it is up from Manning’s average and 10 points down for Romo. I think that is the difference people are talking about.
That said, I think Romo will have learned from those experiences and make a turn in the playoffs this year, assuming we get there—which I am.
First to six!!!
Thanks to Eli Manning for showing his true colors
Romo is the one that throws all the INT’s right?
Manning now has as many as Tony, with 1 less game played.
and Romo hasn't had a multiple INT game this season
Manning looked absolutely horrible last night.
In Romo we Trust
Yes, but...
By having raised his play at the end of last season and the postseason, Eli gets the benefit of the doubt from the press. Not as much as Brady or Peyton, but a little bit. If and when Tony wins the Super Bowl, he’ll start getting the same pass that Favre gets.
That’s just the way it is. Until Tony wins late season and postseason, people will criticize him. That’s the nature of the position, and part of the 60 million dollar contract.
by Baked Potato Soup on Oct 15, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions
doesn't mean its right
or we have to agree with it. I can deal with the media and fans from other teams saying it, but Cowboys fans never should.
Thats the issue Soup, Cowboys fans buying into that nonsense.
In Romo we Trust
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