Other Scores to Watch: Draft Jockeying
by Rafael Vela on Dec 27, 2008 8:20 PM CST
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PrintThe Cowboys have a playoff spot to play for. They also own key Browns and Lions draft selections. Here is where those picks sit heading into the final Sunday:
2nd round -- Dallas: The Cowboys 1st rounder belongs to the Lions, as partial payment for Roy E. Williams. That pick today would be either 21st or 22nd, and could rise as high as 18th if Dallas loses tomorrow.
The 2nd rounder slots accordingly. Add 32 spots to the pick and the Cowboys' first '09 selection goes between 50 and 54, barring a deep playoff run.
3rd round -- Cleveland: Dallas owns Cleveland's 3rd rounder and it could be very high. The Browns owns the 7th overall pick, as of today. They're part of a three way tie for the 5th spot with Seattle and Oakland. Cowboys fans would be happiest if those three teams stayed in that order. Teams rotate within their grouping, so while the Browns would pick 7th in the 1st if standings remained static, they would pick 6th in the 2nd round and 5th in the 3rd.
That means Dallas second overall pick could be as high as 69th overall. But wait, it could go one slot higher! I have to check out strength of schedule, but if the Bengals beat Kansas City at home and the Seahawks or Raiders win, this Cowboys pick could go as high as 68th.
4th round -- Detroit: Don't worry about this one. It's the top pick of the 4th round, no matter what happens tomorrow. That would make it the 97th overall pick, unless the NFL awards some compensatory picks at the bottom of round three.
Dallas also owns its own 4th rounder, which right now falls somewhere in the 114 to 120 range.
-- The Cowboys also have two 5th rounders, a 6th and two 7ths.
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I'm going on the daring assumption
that the Browns will lose to the Steelers tomorrow.
I know it's counter-productive to our cause but...
I hope the Browns B1T{H slap the Steelers.
Raf - thanks for forcing me to avert my eyes
I’ve been pretty negative lately about my beloved Cowboys after having my heart ripped out this year. Only 1 more “you can’t make this stuff up” disappointments this year and then on to the draft. That’s a good thing for me.
by StillHateTheGiants on Dec 28, 2008 9:46 AM CST up reply actions
3 in the top 100
aint too bad for not having a #1………yet.
Cris Carter....you're dead to me.
by Carl Shelton (GloryDayz88) on Dec 27, 2008 8:26 PM CST reply actions
look at it as four in the top 100
the first round pick being roy Williams. Not a bad deal if you ask me
i'm not so sure
a first, a third, and a sixth (in 2009) seems like a lot. hope williams bounces back physically. if he’s the #1 wr they think he is, then i guess it’s a decent deal. otherwise, it’s the less painful joey galloway deal.
Look at it like this, Crabtree is proabably the consensus top receiver in next years draft
If Dallas doesn’t win tomorrow, Dallas would probably end up around the 18-21 range in next years draft if they hadn’t made the Williams trade. You would need alot more than a third and a sixth round pick to get up to select crabtree, who is a top ten pick next year and then you would need two years to develop him.. The sixth round pick we gave to detroit who gave us their seventh rounder back is a complete wash, so all you’re really giving up is a mid third round pick for a known developed lead type receiever who is 26 years old, entering his prime. That’s not a decent deal, that’s a great deal….
Williams is a lead receiver and he was the top receiver taken by Detroit in the draft. Galloway was never that….that was a dumb trade, Jerry should of been stripping that cowboy team and rebuilding instead of chasing a sixth championship with a salary capped aging team..
Just wait till next year
Williams will show his worth next year. The offense has been so out of sync this year due to injuries, that Romo hasn’t had enough time to figure out Williams’ playing style and vice-versa. Next year, after having the entire offseason to practice together, Romo and Williams should be able to connect up a whole lot more often and we will see Wialliams’ worth.
Dan Horne
aka: texastoast
http://www.CowboysFTW.com
+1 deke
I love it. If we hit again in this draft like we did in last years, this team will be stacked..
"Protect the Romo, Save the Cowboys!!"
I agree, last years draft was BIG TIME!!
However, we’re still having to win the last game to get into the playoffs. I wanted to say that the great draft didn’t do us ANY good, but the more I thought about it without the great draft we might not even be in THIS position at ALL! Hopefuly, another great draft wil make it too hard for even THIS bunch of under-achievers to not goo deep in theplayoffs
Make no mistake about it. Williams should be a very productive option given the other weapons on offense.
Look at how much bang for the buck Alvin Harper provided during his stint with the Cowboys and we can all agree he was nothing more than a guy that coasted by on his God-given talent which because he had so many other options before him taking the defense’s attention he was afforded to do and still soar.
New Boys Mock
2. Ron Brace, NT, Boston College
3. Michael Hamlin, SS, Clemson
4. Travis Bright, OG, BYU
4. Hunter Cantwell, QB, Louisville
5. Andy Kemp, OG, Wisconsin
5. Wisconsin, LB, West Virginia
6. Clinton McDonald, DE, Memphis
7. Ryan McDonald, OC, Illinois
Man, you beat me to it
I was prepping a mock off this list and had Brace at 2, Tryonne Green at 4A and was looking at Hamlin, Curtis Taylor and David Bruton for that early 3rd.
I agree with your slotting completely.
by Rafael Vela on Dec 28, 2008 12:30 AM CST up reply actions
Raji is being projected into the top 20.
Dallas isn’t getting him.
by Rafael Vela on Dec 28, 2008 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
Raji is the better of the two....but I don't think either will be available to us....
1) Preliminary ranking of seniors have Raji in the top 15 and Brace among the top 30…….whether incoming juniors will drastically have an effect and make these two guys fall to the 50+ range..I have my doubts…
2) Michael Hamlin selection is more on par with our first pick in the 50 range, as I highly doubt he makes it to the 3rd round, as he is listed among the top 50 seniors available…IF we don’t go SS with our first pick, and he’s available with our 3rd rounder….Grab him….He’s a player.
3) Although prior to this college seasons scouts had Hunter Cantwell as a top QB prospect, he has struggled this season, and I see far better prospects out there at this time, even if we wait til the fourth round…
4) I love the choice of Clinton McDonald-Memphis-DE…..but your never gonna get him in the 6th round, as he is projected to be a late 2nd to mid 3rd round pick….a good post season could land him in the top part of round 2. IF he somehow slips to the 4th round….We grab him there.
5) As far as the O linemen choices….none are stand outs, and i doubt highly any would be an upgrade over our already weak OL depth…Kemp in the 5th is a nice projection….Travis Bright in the 3rd ??? I think not….Kemp being the better player…..OC McDonald is obviously filler material as he’s not even considered one of the top 15 OC out there……..
A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.
President - Garrett MUST GO campaign -
Law of averages...There will be a team in NEED of a DT in round one...Raji being the BEST DT in the draft....
I assure you he will never make it to pick 50 or so where we’ll be selecting.
I don’t even think NT is our biggest need, and at our spot in the second, there will be higher rated ILB’s, OG’s, QB’s, and SS’s…….all depth positions of need…
IF we loose Canty in FA….then NT would become more of a need….assuming Ratliff would then go outside opening a hole in the middle….Do I think Brace is ready to come into the NFL and start at NT ?….nope…so Ratliff would have to stay at NT with absolutely no depth behind him, cuz I think Tank Johnson is as good as gone after the season…so Brace, if available, should be considered.
A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.
President - Garrett MUST GO campaign -
So....
would you be moving Ratliff to DE in this scenario?
by AirforceBat on Dec 28, 2008 10:57 AM CST up reply actions
We don't give Ratliff the credit he deserves for reinventing his position
if we draft a player to play his spot, it will probably be based on the new prototyple Rat is creating
by AustonianAggie on Dec 28, 2008 11:19 AM CST up reply actions
But he's not a prototype
he’s a one off. He’s 290 lbs. but he’s fast and has the longest, strongest hands you’ll see. His punchout is deadly. I’ve seen him bend Leonard Davis backwards with that two-handed jam.
You can’t take guys off his measurables and project they’ll play like him.
I like that 7th pick
Replacing Garrett in the draft would be swell.
by Squishmytomato on Dec 28, 2008 1:34 AM CST up reply actions
Ba-da-bing!
Thank you very much. Squishmytomato will be here all week. Try the dessert bar and don’t forget to tip the waitresses.
Thank you very much.
lol....squish....I'd give any team out there a 7th rounder to take Garrett off our hands..
A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.
President - Garrett MUST GO campaign -
6' 3" 210lbs....he runs a 4.55-4.60 40...which puts him right there with every other top ranked SS
William Moore of Missouri being the only senior ranked above him…..Moore being a top 25 pick..
A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.
President - Garrett MUST GO campaign -
faster, but smaller....Chungs alright, good nose for the ball....just don't think he's better than Hamlin or worthy of a mid 2nd round pick...
We’ll see at the combine who’s faster…..they are both listed in the 4.55 range…
A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.
President - Garrett MUST GO campaign -
Palamalu, Sanders and Reed
all prove that you don’t have to be that big to be a great safety.
In Romo we Trust
mock
The 2nd 5th was supposed to be Reed Williams – LB – West Virginia
just wn baby
and trade everything to go as high as we can to get a new SS….and good O-Linemen and D_linemen….
Needs
Obviously we need to win tomorrow. And the week after and the week after and the week and especially the week after.
That said, whether we win tomorrow or not (and I pray that we do win) there our top needs.
Back-up QB, Draft an Interior Lineman who can play C/G, DE (Canty is gone after this year), ILB (Love you Zach, but your age is showing) and of course Safety (although I have a strong suspicion Roy OU Williams will be back)
http://www.wwtld.blogspot.com/
What Would Tom Landry Do?
"Leadership is getting someone to do what they don't want to do, to achieve what they want to achieve."
~Tom Landry
Victor
Which of the Cowboys’ safeties can cover?
Roy can’t’
Davis can’t’
Watkins can’t
Courtney Brown can’t tackle.
Roy or not, Dallas needs another safety. Ken Hamlin is the only passable S on the team.
by Rafael Vela on Dec 28, 2008 12:35 AM CST up reply actions
Draft 1 move 1?
I’m not sure of AH’s contract status, but doesn’t this force his move to safety? And of course at least 1 in the draft.
by StillHateTheGiants on Dec 28, 2008 10:03 AM CST up reply actions
Henry's contract is running out soon
don’t look at him as a long-term solution.
by Rafael Vela on Dec 28, 2008 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
Safety
Ken is barely acceptable as a cover safety. I remember reading his scouting report when he came to us via free-agency from Seattle. I thought I was reading Roy OU Williams’ report: shows good power, is aggressive in run support and is a punishing tackier when he gets into position, but can be broken down in open field, lets a lot of plays go over his head and not a sure wrap-up tackler (because he prefers the bone jarring hit). In essence we have Roy OU Williams, Roy UT Williams and Roy “Ken Hamlin” Williams Jr. on our team.
Do we need a cover safety? Yes. Is Ant Henry a possible solution? Short term, maybe.
How many high draft picks and/or rich free agent contracts will we go through before we get someone who’s acceptable and not a liability? Apparently we need more….
http://www.wwtld.blogspot.com/
What Would Tom Landry Do?
"Leadership is getting someone to do what they don't want to do, to achieve what they want to achieve."
~Tom Landry
SS and O line...
If we could find real depth at O line and a SS starter, I would call this draft GREAT
Duane Thomas, Calvin Hill, Tony Dorsett, Emmitt Smith ... and now BOTH Marion Barber and Felix Jones
I agree
Safety is huge need and there are no safeties worth signing in free agency..
Who is this years Eddie Royal in the draft? A quick, fast under the radar WR.
Anyone one remember the huge fuss over Danny Amendola?
"Protect the Romo, Save the Cowboys!!"
Pro Bowler FS Oshi Atogwe of St. Louis would be a great FA signing....
Of course having already devoted too much money to Hamlin will probably make signing him impossible…….
but cutting or trading away:
Roy Williams
Anthony Henry
Barbie Carpenter
Patrick Watkins
Patrick Crayton
Cory Proctor
and losing Canty, Tank, Burnett, Bowen, and Hurd to Free Agency would certainly free up enough money to sign ANY FA out there…
A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.
President - Garrett MUST GO campaign -
Center
Instead of selecting so many offensive guards, I would suggest we pick the highest rated center and then move Gurode to the guard rotation. We would be deep at guard. We need a center who can get the ball bact to the QB in a consistent and competent manner. Gurode has shown he is incapable of this basic task.
Thing is Gurode
is considered the Best Center in the League by a lot of people, including the consensus among GMs. Seriously. Here’s why:
he’s the only center who weighs about 330lbs and can take a star NT single handidly. Almost all other centers are considered liabilities in blocking.
He was terrible at Guard, in my view, because he wasn’t making the decisions, and his mind not applied was distractable. His early snaps are ridiculous, but his power and strength are not easily replaced.
by AustonianAggie on Dec 28, 2008 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
Gurode Can't Snap
I get that Gurode is a big center but he can’t snap the ball. This is really becoming a liability. Review the Giants victory over us in the playoffs. Gurode was worse than terrible. Steve Wisnewski and Mark Stepnoski were All Pro players and they were not that big. Give me a guy who can snap the ball, first, then worry about moving the NT.
He may not be perfect
But you can’t be serious about messing around with a player who is considered as one of the best in the NFL.
by StillHateTheGiants on Dec 28, 2008 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
The Gurode at guard position
didin’t work. He was drafted to play guard. BP moved him to play C, and he plays at a very high level. Why would you want to trade a rookie for a pro-bowler?
He is terrible at snapping the ball
Gurode causes much of the disarray on the oline; his snaps are slow and off target; then he sends the ball back into Romo’s face about once a game when it is not called for. He regressed this year at snapping the ball; how he makes the Pro Bowl is a mystery.
Gurode at guard
Sure he was moved but he has now started and played for several seasons. If we found a true center, we would be loaded at guard; we could then focus on finding Flo’s replacement.
The BEST solution here is to draft a top Center, who also projects well at Guard....
I believe Gurode CAN play Guard, and has gained enough experience through the years to be more effective there if moved back to that spot…..OR we can draft a top level OC that can be easily groomed to move over to Guard, all while sustaining the ability to move in at Center down the road, either for injury replacement, or permantly manning the Center position….OUR BEST possible selection with our first pick would be Alex Mack / OC from California….He is the BEST Center to come into the draft in several years…He is also large enough, 6’ 4" 315lbs / and has the skills to play the Guard position as well……I really doubt he’ll be there at pick 50 or so, but if available, and/or somehow slides into the second round, It would be beneficial to trade UP to get him…….There are other OC’s that project well at OG, and possibly even OT…….Max Unger of Oregon, Eric Wood of Louisville, and Johnathan Luigs of Arkansas….Those are the guys we should be looking at in the 2nd and 3rd rounds….
Mack
Unger
Woods
Luigs
Versatility is what’s needed with our first pick……..These are the guys we should be watching..
A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.
President - Garrett MUST GO campaign -
Are any of the OL backups now on the roster worth keeping?
I know there were high hopes for a couple. Is that out the window now?
by StillHateTheGiants on Dec 28, 2008 9:44 AM CST reply actions
If you like money
Take the Saints over Carolina.
Take SF over the Skins.
Take Pittsburgh over Cleveland.
Take Houston/Chicago Under.
Take La.Tech tonight.
Dallas – 20
Phi – 17
3 way tie for last wildcard spot
What are the rules regarding this. If the bears bucs and cowboys win they will all be 10-6. I could of sworn it went to conference record first in a 3 way tie which would put the bucs on top of all 3 with a conference record of 9 – 4 compared to the cowboys 8-4. Someone fill me in on what im missing
by DallascowboysTO on Dec 28, 2008 10:26 AM CST reply actions
From nfl.com
For a 3 way tie for the wildcard spot
2.Head-to-head sweep. (Applicable only if one club has defeated each of the others or if one club has lost to each of the others.)
by DallascowboysTO on Dec 28, 2008 10:31 AM CST reply actions
Woops
Meant to reply that to impatients comment.
by DallascowboysTO on Dec 28, 2008 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
just beautiful weather in Buffalo
the wiind is so bad, the goal posts are leaning badly. The kickers will have a nightmare of a day today….
Chris Carter hating on Romo in the pregame...
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Dec 28, 2008 10:37 AM CST reply actions
I heard Phil Simms on the radio the other day and...
suprisingly he was defending Romo pretty hard. He was talking about how there are way to many people who expect perfection from him and that all the “talent” on the team looks alot more talented with him in the lineup.
I don't doubt Romo, he makes everyone better
Its true, we’ve seen it. Drew Bledsoe was a pretty good QB most the time when he got benched, and Romo throws more TDs than INTs, first guy we’ve had do that since Aikman
But seriously, Patrick Crayton was more succesful as the #2 thus far than Roy Williams, and Roy Williams is a serious talent
Jason Garret’s propensity for getting away from the run does not help Romo. It is frustrating especially when it leads to 3 consecutive incompletes and a 3 and out.
To me this season, the cowboys were rocked by Kyle Kosier’s injury in particular.
I am worried though, if this Cowboys team doesn’t do it this year, will Flozel and TO destroy Dallas’ finances for the near future.
by AustonianAggie on Dec 28, 2008 11:13 AM CST reply actions
here's a stat most fans don't realize
not only does Romo throw twice as many TDs than INTs, but his INT % over the last 3 years has decreased each year, so those allegations that he has regressed is absolutely false.
In Romo we Trust
Romo has regressed this year whether you want to believe it or not
If Romo doesn’t protect the ball today and turns it over, Cowboys lose, if he protects the ball and doesn’t turn it over, cowboys have good chance of winning, it’s that simple…
I think...
That the offense as a whole as regressed. I think sometimes the thing that makes Romo so great is the same thing that we hate. He always wants to make a play happen.
But I also think that Cory Proctor and the protection issues have hurt alot.
by AirforceBat on Dec 28, 2008 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
Romo
Looked fine before he got hurt, I just think he is playing through a hand injury to his throwing hand. You can’t ignore the difference.
"Protect the Romo, Save the Cowboys!!"
No he didn't
He gave Phila 14 points and had at least one of his bone headed plays against GB.
by StillHateTheGiants on Dec 28, 2008 2:34 PM CST up reply actions
That being said...
For all the bonehead plays he makes, which are a few, he makes some amazing plays.
He’s still a top 10 QB in the league, and he can improve and probably will.
I hope the Cowboys do anything in the playoffs
So I can finally climb up a mountain and shout
“THEY ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE!”
Now something real to talk about, when will we see the real Marion Barber? I wouldn’t mind if he didn’t start, I’d like to see him finish this one out
by AustonianAggie on Dec 28, 2008 11:37 AM CST reply actions
Barber
They are saying Barber looks healthier this week… Would be nice to have the Barbarian, 100+ total yards and 2 tds last time we played.
"Protect the Romo, Save the Cowboys!!"
I'm an enternal homer
I optimistically see this swirling chaos subsiding, and this team spontaneously forming in to a disiplined, focused team with flawless execution for the next 5 weeks
by AustonianAggie on Dec 28, 2008 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
And I have a bridge I would like to sell you
Of course we’d all like to see that happen but there is no evidence the Cowboys will magically “form into a disciplined focussed team”. Name 1 5 game stretch where they’ve done that this year. Name a 3 game stretch even.
by StillHateTheGiants on Dec 28, 2008 2:38 PM CST up reply actions
I see a lot of fans keep talking about drafting a SS
Now I think it’s pretty obvious that we need another safety but does it have to be a SS?? I’d personally rather draft a FS and move Hamlin to SS. I think that would be a more natural position for him. I’d be looking at coverage ability #1 in any safety I drafted.
Kam
they may need two safeties.
They target areas. CB and RB last year. DL in ’05. OL in ’06.
I think they’ll come out of this draft with two OLs and two Ss.
Boy, that would be a haul!! I like the way we went large at the CB and RB positions this year.
Really worked out well for us. I’d like to see us do the same with the safety and O-line positions too. I’m still worried about our ability to draft O-linemen though. Was it all just Parcells?? Or just bad luck drafting that position?? Are we officially calling McQ and Free busts?? I certainly haven’t seen crap out of either of them and maybe that’s Houck’s fault but he’s not going anywhere either.
I haven’t delved too much into the draft so far this year but the one safety that I watched pretty close that stood out to me was Rashad Johnson. He looked like a Bob Sanders type of safety IMO
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