Rating The Cowboys Draft Class of 2006 Now
by kcbrett5 on Feb 9, 2008 10:49 PM CST
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PrintNot gonna get into the whole King Jerry vs Big Tuna vs Ireland debate regarding who gets credit and who gets a thumbs down on drafts they did together.
However, I'm gonna give ALL THREE OF THEM a vote of disapproval for the '06 NFL Draft up to this point. Of course, some of the underperformers from that class could prove me wrong in the upcoming '08 season, but as of now, I'm less than impressed.
Check out who The King/The Tuna/The Jeffster selected:
Round 1 - Bobby Carpenter/LB: Ohio State
Round 2 - Anthony Fasano/TE: Notre Dame
Round 3 - Jason Hatcher/DE: Grambling
Round 4 - Skyler Green/WR-KR-PR: LSU
Round 5 - Patrick Watkins/FS: Florida State
Round 6 - Montavious Stanley/DT: Louisville
Round 7a - Pat McQuistan/OG: Weber State
Round 7b - EJ Whitley/OT: Texas Tech
Now I know that going into that draft, we were supposedly set at running back (JuJo & MB3), set with starting wide receivers (TNT), and set with our starting corners (T-New & Henry), so I guess those positions were not a priority at the time.
But here's where I subscribe in the best player available(I know I'll get opposition on this one from Deke and others, but gimme a chance here).
In Round 1, after the Cowboys selected Carpenter, look who was left on the board for the remainder of that round: Antonio Cromartie/CB (San Diego)(starter), Laurence Maroney/RB (New England)(starter), DeAngelo Williams/RB (Carolina), Santonio Holmes/WR (Pittsburgh)(starter), Joseph Addai (Indianapolis)(starter). Do you think we could've used Cromartie in the nickel or as a FS? Do you think we could've used Maroney, Williams or Holmes to return kicks (which they've done effectively for their respective NFL teams)? Yes, they weren't a NEED pick at where our Boyz picked, but best player available mentality would've found a way to get that kind of talent on the field. Plus, with the injury factor always prevalent in the NFL, you can never have enough playmaking depth.
In Round 2, did we really need a backup Tight End that high in the draft? Tony Scheffler (late Round 2), Leonard Pope (Round 3), Owen Daniels (Round 4) were all very much available later and Fasano probably would've been on the board later, as well. By the way, Scheffler, Pope, and Daniels are all starting tight ends now for their respective teams. Before I hear how important it was because Parcells wanted to run a two-TE set, logic says that with so much more talent unpicked that early in the draft, a second TE behind Witten can wait. Look at who was selected after Dallas chose Fasano: Devin Hester KR/PR/WR (Chicago)(best return man the past two seasons), Maurice Jones-Drew/RB-KR (Jacksonville), Richard Marshall CB/KR (Carolina)(starter), Darryl Tapp (Seattle)(starter). Think we could've found a way to use Hester and MoJo? Hmmm, Fasano or D-Hester? MJD or Fasano? Yeah, but we might be missing out on the next Mark Bavaro -- even though he'll be backing up our stud startint TE Jason Witten. I'll take stupid for $1,000, Alex.
So while a lot of those guys mentioned -- who were selected after Carpenter and Fasano -- are starting and making major contributions, the Cowboys' top two draft picks in '06 have played mostly as subs... with Carp getting most of his playing time in special teams.
Oh, but it gets worse, Leon Washington/RB-KR wasn't selected 'til Round 4 (NY Jets). Do you think he's produced more than Carp and Fasano? Hell yeah. And "Baby TO" himself, Brandon Marshall/WR (Denver)(starter) was also selected in Round 4. Has he made more of an impact than Bobby Carpenter and Anthony Fasano? Another resounding Hell yeah. Oh and let's rewind and go back to early-to-mid Round 2 where other current starters were drafted after Carp including Daryn Colledge/OT (Green Bay)(starter), Marcus McNeill/OT (San Diego) (starter), and Greg Jennings/WR (Green Bay) (starter).
Yes, they connected with Jason Hatcher/DE (Grambling) and so-so with Pat Watkins/FS (Florida State) in Rounds 3 and 5 respectively. But they whiffed on Skyler Green/WR-KR-PR (LSU) in Round 4 and EJ Whitley (Weber State) in Round 7 (well, seventh round is a crap shoot anyway, so we'll give the Front Office a free pass on that one), for both have not been on the active roster for the last two years. And Round 7a selection Pat McQuistan/OG (Weber State) simply provided O-line depth and the jury's still out on him.
So while we're painting a broad brush (and I'm included in this camp) that every draft has been successful under the collective firm of Jones, Parcells and Ireland, let me insert a famous line from BSPN's Lee Corso, "not so fast my friend."
The Dallas Cowboys' 2006 Draft left a plethora of impact players on the board for opportunistic franchises to swoop up and utilize effectively between the hashmarks.
And from what we've seen up to now, The King/The Tuna/The Ireland missed out on a ton of talent... instead wasting draft selections on mostly backups or guys not on the current roster. Thank God for Jason Hatcher and maybe Patrick Watkins (still in wait-and-see mode, although I'll never forget his blocked FG return for a TD against Minnesota last season, which DE-Chris Canty leaped in the air to block)
As of 02/09/08, Silverblue5's Grade of 2006 Cowboys Draft Class: D
Another user-created commentary provided by a BTB reader.
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We could've had
Cromartie and Maurice Jones-Drew. To the De Lorean!
But really, it's always easy to play Monday morning QB. I understand your point that we swung and missed on the 2006 draft, but we hit some homeruns every now and then. I think a few teams might have been disappointed that they didn't end up with Emmitt Smith or Tony Romo.
Most draft prognasticators had us selecting....
Santonio Holmes-WR Ohio St. in which I would have been content and happy with...
I personally had us taking Antonio Cromartie-CB Florida St.
Oh well...
by BoyzRback07 on Feb 9, 2008 11:51 PM CST reply actions
I remember that, Boyz
I'm a big Canes fan, and I'll never forget Cromartie's sophomore season where he returned a fumble and INT for TDs against Miami... and although "The U" pulled that game out to win, it was the first time I ever saw his playmaking abilities.
He went on to tear his ACL the following season, and then decided to go pro the year after that. I believe that's the reason why he wasn't rated very high going into the '06 draft.
But as much as I think that SD's GM-AJ Smith is a pr__k, you gotta admit that he's been one of the best NFL GMs for awhile now.
I guess it's safe to say that Cromartie has made it all the way back from his ACL injury in college.
What a waste of a draft.
I had us taking Carpenter
You have to remember CB nor RB was a priority, LB was. We weren't sure if Ellis could make the transition to OLB so it was the logical choice to draft Carpenter.
by Cowboys81 on Feb 10, 2008 1:33 AM CST up reply actions
well...depth was our priority.
Aaron Glenn was adequate at best and very old.
Nate Jones and Jacques Reeves were in no way going to amount to anything...I wanted us to take Cromartie to be our slot CB, while developing to eventually replace Henry.
I could also see us taking a LB though, but I sure wasn't as high on Carpenter, and neither were the so called experts, as many had him going late first round or later.
I was very high on Manny Lawson-DE/OLB in 3-4 that would have been a much better fit..bigger,faster,and stronger than Carp...I haven't really had a chance to see him play much, but I know he's a starter and contributor in San Fran.
Oh well, Looks like we'll be at it again this year, trying to fill our need for quality DB depth, hopefully not in the 7th round.
by BoyzRback07 on Feb 10, 2008 2:24 AM CST up reply actions
Lawson was only about 235-240lbs..
...coming out of Maryland. Great athlete, but Bill wasn't going to draft a skinny project and put him on the strong-side opposite D-Ware. Lawson had made a lot of progress before his knee injury this season, but he's still struggles at times holding the point of attack.
Kiper actually had Dallas taking Lawson in his last Mock Draft, as did Mike Mayock.
Mayock did not have Carpenter going in the 1st round, while Kiper had predicted Captain Caveman would be taken 29th overall by the Jets.
I was on the Kamerion Wimbley train, hoping that he would get past Cleveland at #12 and we could move up a few spots to go get him. He's a hell of a player.
by Fargo Cowboys on Feb 10, 2008 7:32 AM CST up reply actions
Actually, Fargo... Lawson played at NC State
And yeah, you were right. As much as I liked the potential of adding Lawson, I read exactly the same thing about Parcells reservations -- esp. with the learning curve Manny would have to go through.
I believe Lawson tore his ACL or had some other kind of season-ending injury early last year.
Sorry, my bad....just remembered the red jersey!
by Fargo Cowboys on Feb 10, 2008 8:01 AM CST up reply actions
Plus, both universities are in the ACC...
And interestingly enough...
...Lawson, Mario Williams/DE (Houston) and John McCargo/DT (Buffalo) all played in newly-hired LBs coach Reggie Herring's Defense at NCSU.
Herring was the Wolfpack's Defensive Coordinator/LBs coach and in 2005, he led the nation's #1 defense.
Of course, those three players were first round draft picks in 2006 and are all starters in the NFL.
Researching Herring piqued my interest to go back and review the '06 NFL Draft...
NCSU lost a lot of players the following yr...
... due to the NFL Draft and Reggie Herring and Houston Nutt were assistants together at Oklahoma State under Jimmy Johnson (Herring was a grad asst that worked his way up to LBs coach and Nutt was the QBs coach).
As HC of Arkansas, Nutt hired Herring to be his D-Coordinator/LBs coach. Herring even became Nutt's Asst. Head Coach. Of course, when Nutt took the Ole Miss HC job, Herring became available.
It's amazing how far back their ties went and how both of them are tied to Jimmy Johnson, Jerry Jones and the Dallas Cowboys.
Of course, both Jimmy and Jerry played college football for the Razorbacks.
Jerry owns the Cowboys, Jimmy was the Dallas HC for five seasons, leading our Beloved Boyz to two SB titles. Jerry has a long-standing friendship with Nutt. And as I mentioned, Nutt and Herring were assistants under Jimmy at Ok St.
Finally, Herring just got hired to be our LBs coach.
your correct....Wimbley was the better LB...
But I was being realistic that he wasn't going to drop to us...so I chose Cromartie.
I still would of taken Manny Lawson over Bobby Carpenter if we had went OLB.
by BoyzRback07 on Feb 10, 2008 8:57 AM CST up reply actions
Yup, Lawson is definitely da more gifted athlete,
but we all know that the FOB principle/Bill's big school mentality always trumps reason, wisdom, and any sound logic.
I'm sure the Tuna's secret thoughts went something like this...
"Uh, well Bobby is the son of one of my ex-players with the Giants, running back Rob Carpenter. And he did play for a big-time major college program at Ohio State. Plus, we need depth at linebacker."
Think about it. Our first and second round picks in the '06 Draft were wasted on depth over talent (backup LB and backup TE).
In Round 1, after the Cowboys selected Carpenter, look who was left on the board for the remainder of that round: Antonio Cromartie/CB (San Diego)(starter), Laurence Maroney/RB (New England)(starter), DeAngelo Williams/RB (Carolina), Santonio Holmes/WR (Pittsburgh)(starter), Joseph Addai (Indianapolis)(starter).
And in Round 2, look at who was selected after Dallas chose Fasano: Devin Hester KR/PR/WR (Chicago)(best return man the past two seasons), Maurice Jones-Drew/RB-KR (Jacksonville), Richard Marshall CB/KR (Carolina)(starter), Darryl Tapp (Seattle)(starter).
Where's Burt-D, Ultimate Bill Parcells Basher?!?!
Yes, Parcells played a huge role in turning the team around - and as I've stated time and time again, I'm extremely grateful.
But up to this point, let's get real fellas, the '06 Draft was a swing and a miss and his handprints were all over the first two picks in Carpenter and Fasano.
Yes, the King and Ireland were part of that deciding triumvirate, but it's rather obvious that da Tuna pushed for those two current backups.
I meant Lawson over Carpenter... not Wimbley.
Yeah, it had been projected -- and correctly so -- by many draftniks that the FSU linebacker would be selected by Cleveland... so there's no way we were gonna have a chance at him. It made sense for the Browns because HC-Romeo Crennel was still transitioning that D into da 3-4 scheme he ran in New England... and Wimbley was the perfect fit and made the most sense.
Interesting, talent and common sense coming together as a fruitful draft pick.
If only that would've been the case for our Cowboys in the '06 Draft.
No, I'm not bitter...
The problem with Lawson
was that he wasn't a good 3-4 fit to play strong side OLB. Lawson is too small and much lighter than Carpenter. The talk two years ago was Lawson would get swallowed up by lineman at 6'5 240 lbs. Carpenter at 6'2 260 was a more typical Parcells OLB in a 3-4 scheme.
So far that appears to be true because Lawson has 3 sacks in two years and has been injury prone. So far he has been a disappointed considering where he was drafted.
by Cowboys81 on Feb 10, 2008 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, most publications had us...
... drafting either Carpenter, Holmes or Lawson prior to the '06 Draft.
many had us taking Jason Allen-Safety as well.
Which I was opposed to. He hasn't turned out to be much, just started to see action this year.
by BoyzRback07 on Feb 10, 2008 9:02 AM CST up reply actions
I am glad we passed on Allen. Up to now...
... Saban whiffed on that one, too, because he's missed games with injuries and when he's been on the field, he's gotten torched a lot on big pass plays.
plus BPP wants a whole team
made up of LBer's and TE's
that was an easy call
by Arkcowboys on Feb 10, 2008 2:31 PM CST up reply actions
One underrated team at the time...
... was Green Bay and their GM-Ted Thompson, who was under fire going into that draft.
If you looked at what he did in '06, you'll notice that he set the Packers up for years to come.
In that "haul," here's who they landed:
AJ Hawk-LB: Starter (Round 1)
Daryn Colledge-OL: Starter (Round 2)
Greg Jennings-WR: Starter (Round 2)
Tony Moll-OL: Starter (Round 5)
I can't believe how much talent our Front Office missed out on. Sure hope that Carpenter, Fasano, and Watkins contribute a whole heck of a lot more in the '08 season.
Hawk was never a
consideration becuase he was drafted too high for us to get him.
by Cowboys81 on Feb 10, 2008 1:35 AM CST up reply actions
I wasn't talking in terms of us, 81. Just...
... regarding who had one of the more underrated '06 Drafts when you look back from then up til now.
The rumor was
We were going to take Daryn Colledge with the second round pick, but GB jumped on him before Dallas' pick.
Then, the second option was taking a TE, and Fasano was the top rated on the Cowboys board.
I'm in the minority, I guess, but I think Fasano is a good backup. Maybe it's because it was a 2nd round pick, but they needed a good 2nd TE for the 2 TE base offense that never panned out.
Plus, Witten is so great, everyone else pales in comparison.
by APerfectStar on Feb 10, 2008 8:34 PM CST up reply actions
Third year rule means...
2005 Draft Class looked better in year three with Spears, Burnett, Canty, Barber, and Ratliff showing up more often.
I hope this is da case with Carp, Fasano, Watkins
I think...
PWat will be tight.
-Fasano has shown some good things, but as long as Witten's around we probably won't see 2nd round value out of him.
-and the verdict's still out on Carp, although he looked quite promising in the Seattle playoff game.
McQ and Hatcher could be nice too.
Hatcher has made the most plays, Jsams...
... out of all the '06ers.
It'd be nice if Carpenter and Watkins can bust out in '08.
I understand Fasano isn't expected to do much backing up Witten. But he's got to at least make the plays that he does get. For a tight end, he repeatedly drops picture-perfect passes.
Ya
Hatcher's made a few plays like the touchdown after Brady's fumble and a sack/fumble forced followed by a shot of him on the sideline screaming, "Put me in the effin' game!" against a team I can't remember, but for the most part he disappeared in the 2nd half of the season. The fact that he didn't do as well in the 2nd half might have something to do with inconsistent playing time, but I did like the little flashes I saw this year.
Fasano just left a bad taste in all our mouths after the touchdown drop against the G-men.
by Jordan Sams on Feb 10, 2008 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
The lost art of taking the BPA
What I hated about the 2006 draft more than anything was the fact that we didn't take the best player available in the first two rounds of the draft. We were so concerned with getting an OLB as Plan B to the Greg Ellis Project and a TE to facilitate our two-TE set (that we ended up scrapping mid-season).
While I have no problem with selecting a player at a position of need, I do have a problem when the Cowboy's "reach" for picks like Carpenter (5-10?) and Fasano (at least a round).
The Hatcher picks was a surprise to many, but he was somewhat of a workout warrior at the combine that didn't get a lot of exposure playing at Grambling. Rumors were that he was on the radar of several teams and moving up their draft boards. He's certainly flashed his athleticism for a player his size and shown that he is a valuable reserve.
Skyler Green turned out to be a wasted pick, but I thought he showed enough playmaking ability at LSU to warrant being selected in the 4th. However with pass-rushing specialists Elvis Dummerville and Ray Edwards being selected right after Green, it makes you wonder if we could have got our OLB in the 4th round. Just my opinion, but I think both Dummerville and especially Edwards could have made the transition to OLB and would have been better than Carp.
by Fargo Cowboys on Feb 10, 2008 7:59 AM CST reply actions
Makes you wonder if da Big Tuna...
... saw the opp to link the future to his past in Carpenter (son of ex-Giants RB Rob Carpenter, who Parcells coached) and Fasano (supposedly he reminded Big Bill of TE Mark Bavaro).
Of course, you know I'm kidding... but it is kind of interesting.
of course he did
he finally paid poppa Carp for winning him a championship
by Arkcowboys on Feb 10, 2008 2:34 PM CST up reply actions
Nice analysis
No doubt that draft was a disappointment, but It's pretty much an aberration. The rest of the drafts in this regime have been fairly potent.
This analysis
makes me feel a whole lot better about the departure of Ireland.
by Jordan Sams on Feb 10, 2008 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
I think 2004 was even worse
2nd) Julius Jones-RB - or Steven Jackson? u decide
2nd) J Rodgers-OL - soft-injury prone-failure
3rd) S Peterman-OL - another whiff
4th) B Thorton-DB - practice squad material ?
5th) Sean Ryan-TE - A clear Parcells flop
7th) N Jones - DB - No more than speacial teams
7th) P Crayton-WR - Gotta love QB/WR conversions
7th) J Reeves-DB - - 4th or 5th CB depth at best.
Overall grade: D- only cuz you have to add Marcus Spears to this draft.
by BoyzRback07 on Feb 10, 2008 10:12 AM CST reply actions
Getting three contributors with 3 7th rounders
Is huge, even though pretty much every other pick was a bust.
And 04' was a
damn good draft class. Even after trading down we still could have landed Bob Sanders. Also it was a pretty good year for Undrafted Free Agents:
Jason Peters Arkansas, Buffalo Bills
Jordan Babineaux Seattle Seahawks
Randall Gay LSU, New England Patriots
Willie Parker North Carolina, Pittsburgh Steelers
B.J. Sams McNeese State, Baltimore Ravens
Wes Welker Texas Tech, San Diego Chargers
Wow. We missed on those guys, too...
Someone should do research on...
... the best undrafted players (at the moment) of the new millenium.
Already, on offense... a few come to mind:
QB - Tony Romo
QB - Kurt Warner
RB - Willie Parker
?
WR - Wes Welker
?
?
Agree with that
2004 draft turned out to be wretched.
I'm still nauseated when I think about Steven Jackson dropping right in our lap and not taking him.
by APerfectStar on Feb 10, 2008 8:38 PM CST up reply actions
I'm with U on that, Tom.
Ehhh...
We all forget it now, but San Diego was grilled for that pick. Cromartie had sat out his entire junior season at Florida State due to injury and the left a year early. So from the playing skills standpoint, he was raw. The reason why he got drafted was because he blew the combine away. Check out his measurables:
Height: 6'3"
Weight: 208 lbs
40 yard dash: 4.38 s
Vertical: 42"
Still, the Cromartie pick, which hurts so much now, was viewed at the time as a team falling in love with a players numbers instead of their playing experience in college. He would not have played very much his rookie year, and it would have taken a leap of faith by the coaches to start him this year.
Rolling the Dice...
Yeah, there wasn't much film on Cromartie, but the combine just basically solidified what everyone already knew.....this kid had all the measurables.
Maybe a little bit of a gamble based on his unrefined cover skills, but the kid had a rare combination of size and speed that you seldom see from a CB. Gotta give the Chargers credit for not shying away from these players and taking gamble when they have all the physical tools.
The year before the Chargers selcted Luis Castillo out of Northwestern. Castillo had sent a letter to all 32 teams admitting the use of steriods while recovering from a shoulder surgery. Many teams stayed away from the talented Castillo (we could have had him over Spears), but not the Chargers.
The same could be said for the Chargers talented LT Marcus McNeill, who had some back issues in college. That didn't stop the Chargers from taking him.
Unfortunately Jerry's history of draft busts, along with the off-field issues that plauged the Cowboys for years limited our ability to roll the dice. I think we've overcome much of that, and with 13 Pro Bowl players we can take a chance here or there.
by Fargo Cowboys on Feb 10, 2008 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
Actually, the year before Cromartie's injury...
... he was making plays not only on defense, but also in special teams for FSU.
I'm a big Canes fan, and I'll never forget the first game I ever saw Antonio play was against "The U," where he returned a fumble for a TD and and INT for a TD. That same season (I believe it was his sophomore year), he continued to make plays in the Noles secondary.
What was unfortunate at the time for him was the following season when he sustained a season-ending knee injury. Then, the year after he declares for the NFL Draft.
I'm sure that AJ Smith and other GMs and scouts had film on Cromartie before the injury... and that's why he was drafted so high and grilled so mightily by the press.
But the '07 season is the Antonio Cromartie that those of us who watched him @ FSU expected.
Drafting in the second half of the first round...
Obviously, the higher you pick in the first round, the less likely you are to select a bust. Twice, during Bill's tenure, we selected in the top half of the first round. Twice, we came away with a pretty good player (Newman and D-Ware).
As you move down the draft board in the first round, your less likely to hit on Pro Bowl caliber talent, or even starter for that matter. However, the late first round selections are extremely important to the salary cap because they don't require the financial commitment of a player drafted in the top half of the round and you can lock that player up for up to 5 years. Sure, there's always the chance that a player could hold out, but can you imagine the advantage of having a player like Antonio Cromartie locked up for for 5 years at just $2.5M a year!
Basically we had two picks in the second half of the first round during Bill's tenure and we appear to have missed badly on both players. With that said, in my opinion, Bill also had his "stamp of approval" on both players. Assuming that we use both late first round picks this year, we again find ourselves drafting late in the first round. Given the fact that the top notch talent has not yet seperated itself from what appears to be a very deep first day, I really like our draft positions. I think we can land some very good players with cap friendly 5-year deals. Lets just hope that with the influence of Parcells gone, we can make the most of the picks.
by Fargo Cowboys on Feb 10, 2008 12:42 PM CST reply actions
It's curious...
The Parcells draft record. This whole idea that he can find late round talent that he can develop, but has more trouble drafting in the early rounds.
The best explanation I can come up with is that the times where the Parcells team really missed is when they were locked in on filling certain positions with certain players. For instance, they traded down to pick JuJo because they needed a RB and decided he was their guy so they could move down. With Fasano, they decided he was there guy and realized they could trade down and still get him. There's been a lot of smoke around the Carpenter pick, so I'm not sure they wouldn't have still taken him if Allen was still available.
Contrast that to how the Spencer pick was made last year. The impression I got was that there was a group of players that they were interested in at a variety of positions, and though they made deals, they still made sure they got one of those players. I really do think they would have been happy with any of Spencer, Reggie Nelson, or Aaron Ross.
I like Jerry's method of filling your holes with acceptable bodies in free agency, and then being free to take any number of positions with your early draft picks. It helps you get a better player overall, which is better long term for your team. I'm not sure he can do it this year though because it seems like the holes on this team matchup better to the draft or trades than through free agency.
by GhettoBear04 on Feb 10, 2008 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
The Second Day.....
We've all heard that Bill can find the hidden gem, but I don't buy it. Bill's a coach, and with all the commitments involved with coaching a team, it's my opinion that a coach like Parcells has less and less influence as the draft wears on. There is no possible way that a coach has time to scour the athletes to find these players without heavy influence from the regional scouts.
With that said, I have a real hard time giving Bill too much credit for finding the second day players that are contributing for us (MB3, Watkins, Ratliff, James, Canty, Reeves, Crayton, N. Jones, and one time 16 game starter Rob Pettiti!).
by Fargo Cowboys on Feb 10, 2008 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
True da, GhettoBear...
I couldn't agree with you more when U said the following:
I like Jerry's method of filling your holes with acceptable bodies in free agency, and then being free to take any number of positions with your early draft picks. It helps you get a better player overall, which is better long term for your team. I'm not sure he can do it this year though because it seems like the holes on this team matchup better to the draft or trades than through free agency.
That's an area of improvement that I've noticed over the past few seasons.
The problem in 2006
I believe the biggest problem with the 2006 draft is one of philosophy. Some subscribe to the Need theory and some subscribe to the Best Player Available theory. Both focus on players. The Need theory focuses on the current roster whereas the BPA theory focuses on the draft players available. I subscribe to a theory I call the Position Theory. The main underlying assumption is that choosing players in inherently unpredictable, but choosing the correct position is very predictable. It goes as follows:
Each position on the team is analyzed under two criteria:
(1) How important is that position to fielding a Super-Bowl caliber team; and
(2) Historically, has it been easy to fill that position with quality players later on in the draft
Positions that are critical to fielding a Super-Bowl caliber team and are also difficult to fill with later round picks are Premium Positions. I think the Premium Positions on an NFL Team are quarterback, left tackle, #1 stud wide receiver, pass rusher and cornerback.
Unless there is a can’t-miss talent available at a non-Premium position, first and second round draft picks should be used to draft players at the five Premium Positions. Choose among the premium positions based on current the needs of the team as well as the needs 1-3 years down the road.
Rounds 3-5 should focus on the remaining 17 starting positions, based on the best player available, not need. Premium positions get the nod over the other 17 positions in round three.
Rounds 6-7 are flyer picks. Take a chance on a small school guy or a problem child or even reach for a guy to fill a need.
You will note that need is not a main selection criteria in the Position Theory until rounds 6-7. If a team has one or two glaring needs that could be the difference between a good season and winning a Super Bowl, then use free agency to fill the need with a proven player.
Getting back to the Cowboys 2006 draft class, Carpenter was a linebacker that wasn’t touted as a stud pass rusher and Fasano was a backup tight end. Both picks focused on the wrong positions. Time will tell if they also chose the wrong players, but it isn’t looking overly positive.
by Cowboy Louie on Feb 10, 2008 1:45 PM CST reply actions
Outstanding post, Cowboy Louie...
I wish/hope/pray that our Cowboys would subscribe to your position theory.
Totally agree Louie..That's exactly it....
Great post....That's the philosophy that produces champions and sustains excellence, especially projecting 1-3 years down the road, when today's free agency can derail a championship team in the matter of one year...The good teams prescribe to this quite well...Chargers & Patriots immediately come to mind...
by BoyzRback07 on Feb 10, 2008 6:17 PM CST up reply actions
I thought Carp was considered a pretty good
pass rusher coming out of college, I know thats what he excelled at playing for Ohio St.
There are missing factors in this discussion
Player acquisition, according to Coach Parcells is always a 50% proposition including signing free agents.
All players acquired in 2006 should be considered.
Whether the player starts for the team is not the question, only if they make the team. The reason is that when we have a solid team we draft mostly for depth. We can afford to keep a player in a reserve role while another team must play their picks immediately.
Finally I agree with kk218 that at least three years is needed to evaluate a class.
In this case we have 10 players on the roster with 2 years experience (including some of those drafted). Taken as a whole, that is pretty good for a team that went 13-3. This class deserves more credit than comparing individuals to players who worked out for other teams. Want to rethink your grade now?
Not at all.....
Carpenter was not drafted to be a reserve. If you are drafting reserves in the first round, you should trade down. And Carpenter didn't even find the field in a reserve role this season. He is, at best, an average special teams player for us right now.
I'm fine with Fasano as a player, but this pick was a terrible reach and that also goes into the draft grading.
Bottomline is if you can draft well, then Jerry doesn't have to shell out millions for top tier free agents. We will more than likely still have to sign second tier free agents to fill holes, but not the likes of $49M Man, Biggie Davis. Everyone (with the exception of Dan Snyder) knows that drafting well is the key to sustained success under the current cap system.
by Fargo Cowboys on Feb 11, 2008 8:07 AM CST up reply actions
Fargo hit it on da nose and that's my point...
A lot of the players I mentioned -- who King/Tuna/Ireland missed out on -- have produced... esp the first and second rounders.
That's what you expect out of your first and second round picks.
Carpenter is going on his third season, and he hasn't done enough to persuade the coaches to play him more on defense.
And backup tight end with as high a pick as your 2nd rounder doesn't make much sense... esp. when you already had a Pro Bowl TE as the starter. IMHO, 3rd round would've been the earliest to select a backup tight end.
Fargo's post above best sums everything up.
Drafting for reserves!!!!
That was Jerry's philosphy in the mid ninties.
can we stop with the arm chair drafting, we should of, we could of, it was a mistake, that what the draft is, a crap shoot.
Carpenter was rated 18-25 in the draft, he wasn't reach, we were changing to the 3-4 and didn't know Ellis would be able to make the change to OLB, we needed ans strong side backer, lawson wasn't that, and he has been strugling in San Fran. Carpenter has been moved from inside and outside and back again so much, he has very little confidence, and when he does get a chance to play, he's playing not to make a mistake, you cant play in the NFL that way. Before we start throwing the word BUST around, especially after two years, can the kid get a chance to play first, something he cant do because of the depth at inside linebacker, ask yourself, who are you taking out of the starting lineup inside for him to start over. Burnett has been here longer than Carpenter, he was taken early in the second round, and he has yet to crack the starting lineup, he's in his fourth year and besides this year where he has shown improvement, the best thing he was known for prior to the last season was, the injury list and how many times he was on it. Phillips wasn't high on Bradie James when he got here last year after watching the tape on the player, but James showed up twenty pounds lighter to camp, worked on his technique and showed Phillips he improved his play. Phillips mention that he really never gave Carpenter a chance besides one preseason game. Corner was NOT a need for Dallas two years ago.
Dallas was going to draft Colledge in the second but he was taken a few picks before by Greenbay, Dallas then moved down and then drafted fasano, a player that was a value pick, not a reach for the offense dallas was changing too, a two tightend system. And before people want to trash Fasano, he'd be a starter for half the teams in this league, and a good player to have if Witten goes down with an injury. You all saw what Boss did for the Giants when Shockey went down with a season ending injury, I dont hear anyone say he was a wasted pick... Tightend on this team is a position where you dont have to worry about heading into this draft, when we get more positions on this team at that depth, then we can afford to draft the best player available in the first three rounds, otherwise you draft for needs in the first three rounds, this year, Corner, Wide Reciever and Runningback are the needs for this team in the first three rounds, if the value is there for for a cb,rb,wr when you pick, if not, move down, thats the route you go.
Jerry has for too many years reached for players, or rolled the dice on character issue players, thats what got him into trouble, he's not happy staying put and drafting his board, he always wants to get headlines on draft day instead of building your team, hence missing out on good players, this isn't the oil business Jerry, its football, you can afford to take fliers on players when you have a deep team and no major issues, but for the most part your mid to later round picks should be three and four year starting players from big schools, Ratliff is a prime example, you have a much better chance of those players working out and contributing for the long haul.
I remember everyone wanted Mike Williams, he was suppose to be the next Micheal Irvin, how has he turned out, I was ecstatic Detroit took him, because I'm sure jerry would of taken flier on him, you think Detroit second guesses themselves for passing on a player now by the Name of Demarcus Ware... The draft isn't an exact science, if you want to take issues with some picks in the last four years, I suggest you also take a look at other teams drafts in the same four year span, I'm sure they aren't pretty either.
Don't know. Maybe I'm Greedy & Envious...
... when I see the players we missed out on producing within their first two seasons in the league and our top two picks in that same draft aren't contributing more. There was a boatload of talent that was missed out on.
And like I basically said earlier, I wish/hope/pray that Carpenter and Fasano will bust out in 2008. I understand that with our depth, these two won't get much PT, but whenever they do get on the field, they've got to make the most of that time. For example, in Fasano's case, the loss to the Giants in the playoffs was one of many times where the supposedly sure-handed TE dropped passes. All right, so now I'm bi___in' too much, but hey, that's just me.
Anyway, I did like your excerpt where you said...
you can afford to take fliers on players when you have a deep team and no major issues, but for the most part your mid to later round picks should be three and four year starting players from big schools, Ratliff is a prime example, you have a much better chance of those players working out and contributing for the long haul.
-- and I although I never thought about it, I do agree with it.
If anything, like you said, we won't have to worry about the TE position going into the draft... plus we seem to have adequate depth @ LB.
I keep hoping Jerry steps down
as the GM and either hires a real GM or let Steven take over, wishfull thinking on my part, but I can still hope and pray it happens sooner than later!!!
I like fasano, I think he's made big strides over last year, hopefully Carpenter can make the same strides next year to show what he can do, he showed flashes in the Seattle playoff game. I dont like evaluating players just after only two years.
I do still think dallas needs another linebacker, might see one drafted on day two.
LOL! Yeah, Deke... I'm with U on that one.
In my lifetime, I'd love to witness the day that da King gives up his GM duties and pay for a real one.
Regarding Fasano, I'd like to see him make more plays next season in his limited action.
What Day 2 LBs -- who you could see playing in a 3-4 scheme -- could you see being available in the April draft?
On second look,
inside Linebacker class is very weak in this draft, actualy the whole linebacker core is weak for that matter, just might see dallas sign a lower tier free agent to help with depth inside. I do like Khari long on our practice squad as an edge rusher, though haven't heard much about him lately and I like the pickup of Justin Rogers, but again, just haven't seen or heard too much about how he's progresed.
Although considered a weak LB draft...here's one.
Ezra Butler - Nevada OLB
I see him fitting in well at strong side ILB. Has great size and speed ratio, highly productive and would be a great 2nd day selection, He can go as high as 2nd round if he impresses in the coming months, but I think he'll be there with our 3rd or 4th round pick if we chose to go that route.
6'2" 248lbs. runs a 4.55 40
2007 stats:
10 games, 87 tackles, 12.5 for loss, 4 sacks, 4 pass break ups, 4 interceptions...not bad eh ?
Here is his school bio site:
http://www.nevadawolfpack.com/ViewAr...
by BoyzRback07 on Feb 11, 2008 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
being since the linebacking core
in this draft is so weak, I think Butlers stock only rises, I dont think he makes it to the fourth round, and I'm definitely not taking him in the third round. This is what I'm looking at as far as the free agency and draft goes.
Sign Ladacoeur, Hamlin, Canty, Barber and Flozell( if the deal is a moderate three year deal)
Sign Berrian and a veteran running back
First pick in the first round--corner unless Stewart is there
Second pick in the first round, I think someone will want to come up for a player here, trade down to the early second and pick up a third rounder, select a corner, yes two corners even if we took one with our one spot in the first round.
our own second round pick, runnning back if Stewart doesn't fall to us earlier or wide receiver.
Third round picks receiver or fullback.
fourth round - Guard/center
Fifth round - NT/defensive end
sixth round - runningback
seventh round - corner/safety
I agree with most of your assessment...but...
There is certainly a possibility of Ezra Butler moving up, and I accounted for that by placing a late third, early fourth tag on him. One of my resources (Drafttek.com) has him rated 155th overall, and that would place him in the 5th-6th round area...I'd surely look at him if he falls in those rounds.
I agree that I wouldn't use a 3rd rounder on him, as I also would be looking FB(Owen Schmitt) in round 3.
I don't see Akin playing here much longer, he may not even be here after June 1st to start the '08 season, as I'd prefer Kevin Burnett taking over as a starting ILB next to James. That being said, I'd consider LB depth a serious need for us that must be addressed somewhere.
I also see Bobby Carpenter getting traded, along with our 2nd rounder to Detroit for Roy Williams. So that would put even more of a premium on bringing in LB's.
I know your love for Jonathan Stewart is well documented, but I don't see him being there at pick #22. And I truely believe Leodis McKelvin, Mike Jenkins, and DR Cromartie will be gone by then as well. This is why my focus has been on Felix Jones this whole time, cuz his chances of being there are far greater, but I don't see him there at 28.
With all the elite CB's already taken..I don't reach for the next tier CB just yet. I do agree with possibly trading out of the first if the deal warrants it...I can see the Dolphins or Atlanta trading up a few spots with us to draft QB Joe Flacco-Delaware if neither selects Matt Ryan in the top of the draft. At the top of the second there very well should be a few really nice DB's Reggie Smith, Tracy Porter, Aqib Talib, Antoine Cason, and would give us possibly another third rounder or more.
If we can't get RB's Stewart, Mendenhall, or Jones in the first, I'd much rather aquire a veteran in FA than draft any of the other RB's available in round two...which I have us trading anyways. If we need another young RB to groom, we can find that in rounds 4-7.
by BoyzRback07 on Feb 11, 2008 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
you don't think Talib is elite??
most draftniks think he is because he's a real playmaker and ball hawk.
Whats your take on this guy? Don't you think he's fast enough?
I agree that he is play maker...but....
He is quite skilled, and if he can prove he's got better speed, he'll go higher than 22 as well.But when I say elite, I'm strickly talking versatility to play in all types of systems. I'm looking at the teams that are in need of corners, then breaking down the best man coverage guys, as opposed to the best zone coverage guys.
Guys like Jenkins, McKelvin, DR Cromartie, Porter, are quicker, shiftier, more fluid man coverage types that can play in the slot in tight coverage or outside in a bump and run style D. A Terrence Newman styled CB.
Pats,Baltimore,Buffalo,Cincy,Detroit,Houston,Arizona,Phily,Washington,Tampa all could be in the running for these guys before us.
Guys like Talib and Cason are more like outside cover 2 zone types, with over the top coverage needed.
..Can slow down a WR at the line, but you don't want speedy wideouts going deep on them....they're very similar to a Anthony Henry in their style. Although Reggie Smith is a very good athletic playmaker, he fits more into this type of CB, and I see him being more of an asset playing free safety in the mold of Ed Reed and Darren Sharper.
Detroit,Tampa,Arizona,Washington,
Indy,Giants,GB can easily be seen taking one of these guys.
Our need is a shut down corner that can play closer to the line, a straight up man to man cover CB, that can play the slot against speedy receivers..and eventually go to the outside CB spot.
Talib very well may get drafted higher than 20 in the draft to a team like Detroit, cuz I see him only fitting in certain Tampa Cover 2 type zone schemes, which in effect our D sometimes plays only because of some coverage liabilities. I wouldn't be opposed to getting him...but not at pick 22....pick 28 is a good spot for him, high in the second round even better if we trade out.
by BoyzRback07 on Feb 11, 2008 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
Go 'head, Boyz...
Man, i can tell you've done some intensive research and analysis.
Thanks for da knowledge.
boyzrback
I heard while watching the senior bowl practices that Tracy Porter from Indiana reminded some the scouts of Newman. Whats your take on this guy as a pure cover corner?
It seems that size and physicality are his only weaknesses.
ultimately...Porter is who we'll draft.
As much as I'm in love with DRC, and would also go nuts if we got McKelvin......I'm conceding the fact that if we don't draft up into the top 14, we won't have a shot at either..If they both perform in all the events at the Combine, McKelvin has hamstring concerns and may wait for private workouts,and DRC wants to show the world he's the top DB in the draft, He has been working out down the street from me in Orlando-Wide World of Sports performance center. I might actually take a ride over there to see if I can get in to check him out. I live 10 minutes away. And up until last week, I had a Contractors pass to enter any part of Disney, but my job there is done,and I had to turn over the pass. :-(
I see him putting up unreal numbers like Rashean Mathis, and his cousin Antonio did, and have an equally successful pro day performance..I see him being under 4.4 in the 40, and over 40" verticle, and at 6'2" 187lbs.I can only see him getting stronger, bigger, and better..He'll get to about 200lbs in the pro's and still maintain his fluidity and speed. He is virtually a clone of his cousin, with as good or better playmaking ability.
His weight room numbers might not be all that..but who cares ? he'll out run you, he'll outleap you , and he'll stick to you like clue...now that's what I want in a corner.
As far as Tracy Porter, I had hoped he'd be there at our 2nd round pick, but that was prior to the Senior Bowl, where he performed very well, after McKelvin went down with injury there...he was probably the second best CB at the Bowl behind only DRC.
He's moved ahead of the rest of the second round
guys Thomas-USC,King-PSU,Lee-Auburn,Godfrey-Iowa St,Wheatley-Colorado, Flowers-VTU ,
and won't make it past pick #50. He is almost a clone to TNew..He's probably the exact same size as Newman, 5'11" 185lbs range.and about as fast as TNew, I'd say in the 4.38 40 range. He still has some developement, not very strong, may evade physical play, hasn't exactly rung up the interceptions, but neither has TNew..I say he comes right in and starts as our nickle slot CB.
I think if he is there at #28, we take him, otherwise draft out of the first and still hope to get him.
by BoyzRback07 on Feb 11, 2008 4:40 PM CST up reply actions
actually...a sidenote..
I meant to say he shows more playmaking ability than TNew at this point, great hands, and return ability...He's got some flaws in technique, and footwork, but that will only get better learning behind TNew and the coaching of Campo and company.
The guys got skills..and would make for a perfect fit at nickle.
He would also be our new punt returner, and play special teams..so a pretty solid choice if we don't get McKelvin or DRC.
by BoyzRback07 on Feb 11, 2008 4:52 PM CST up reply actions
Tracy Porter's Crazy Speed and whoops...
nice.......
As you can see in this video, he isn't too aggressive when it comes to tackling, as he flalled with his hands to try to slow the runner, he'd surely need to work on that a bit...reminds me of D. Sanders in his tackling strategy,
but once he got the ball in his hands, he's pretty electrifying. blazing speed, decent vision, some moves, jukes, cuts, etc.......if it wasn't for that heroic Steve Tasker wanna be , he probably would've scored....can make for a good punt returner..somewhat raw in technique..but is better than Reeves..
by BoyzRback07 on Feb 12, 2008 2:21 PM CST up reply actions
I hope you're right, Boyz...
Porter does look like a definite playmaker... someone who makes things happen when he has the football!!!
Talib is a second
rounder, not first. I would'nt touch him until he fell mid second round. The only way he makes the first round is if he gets overdrafted because of his combine workout
by Cowboys81 on Feb 11, 2008 6:43 PM CST up reply actions
Stewart is just a wish, 99% of not happening
but one can dream. I like Mendenhall, but I'm not taking him after just one season of starting in college, and with Felix Jones, averages ten touches a game in a gimmicky offense. I wouldn't mind Ray Rice with a late second or early third depending if we move down with our second pick in the first round ans pick up an early third round pick.
The issue I have with what you're saying is that being that this linebacking core in this draft is so weak, I cant see us cutting Akin this year, he's solid, not flashy, Burnett seems to be a playmaker, but he has a history of injury evry year, so cutting Akin, Burnetts injury history and carpenter being traded and Ellis another year older, that would leave us too thin, IMO.
I dont see Miami moving up, I think Ireand wants more pick, the first pick in the second round is a high valued pick for them, I can see them moving that pick for a few picks in the third and fourth round and possibly a nother second rounder next year. Miami has two picks in the second round this year.
I agree with you on all those corners (Talib,Smith,Porter) being there early in the second round except Cason, he can come in and start day one, I think he'll go late in the first round.
things are subject to change...
This years overall LB is weak as far as elite
protypical Inside LB's....but,
It's not lacking top round contributors...I can see at least 3 going in the first round, and as many as 10 going on day 1.
You have to account for college DE's that are going to be converted to OLB's in the 3-4 as well...Gholston-OSU, Merling-Clemson,Crable-Michigan, Groves-Auburn, all will be starting OLB's in the NFL..Then you throw in Rivers-USC, Conners-PSU, Highsmith-LSU, Adibi-VTU, Davis-UCLA, Bell-UNLV, and a few others, and the LB class doesn't look all that bad. I'm not suggesting we take any of these guys, unless of course Carp gets traded.....but I wouldn't mind spending a few late picks on LB's. regardless, Akin, Ellis, and Carp's days are numbered here.
I can't see or even imagine the Miami Dolphins taking Matt Ryan-QB with the first overall pick in the draft and pay him 35 million dollars in guaranteed money...I also can't see them resting their future on last years 2nd rounder John Beck, although he's shown some signs of developing, if he only had more weapons, maybe he's the answer.
Like you said, they have 2 second rounders, and the Delaware QB has skyrocketed up the charts from his play in the Senior Bowl. I can only see him enhancing his position during the combine and pro day...It's just a gut feeling, but I see Miami, Atlanta, Baltimore, and Chicago all vying to jocky up to get him. Only time will tell.
I am dead set against drafting Ray Rice in any round. Not only is he too small (5'9", 197lbs),
but has severe wear and tear on his body already, and you combine that with his pedestrial speed (4.55 40) his lack of receiving skills, his inability to offer any pass protection has the makings of a bust if drafted before round 4.
I'd jump on Jamaal Charles 6'1", 207lbs/4.3 40, if we don't get a Mendenhall, Stewart, Jones in round one.
I don't believe we get rid of Akin this season either...only cuz we have no depth...But I don't see him on the roster to start '09 season for sure.
Which again is why we must spend some time looking into drafting a ILB in the later 4-7 rounds.Even with Akin and Carp on the roster we are still pretty thin at LB depth. Signing other teams cast offs isn't always the way to go for filling back up positions. I wouldn't pay FA money to anyone who is not able to come in here and start or make major contributions.
by BoyzRback07 on Feb 11, 2008 3:50 PM CST up reply actions
good choice Deke, but
Mendenhall is just as good, if not better IMO. I would go with Felix Jones above all because of his size speed ratio and his abilty in the return game. He would make the best compliment to MB3.
Say no to Ray Rice. The kid has a ton of miles on his body. He will probably be a second day pick, not a NFL starter in this league according to the scouts. I tend to agree.
by Cowboys81 on Feb 11, 2008 6:50 PM CST up reply actions
Deke, thats beyond wishful thinking
like I said before, the sun has a better chance of NOT coming up in the east every morning, than Jerry ever giving up that job. Not going to happen.
Actually the sun rising
in the west will happen, and it has happened before, happens every 100,000 years or so, the earth is in the process now known as Flipping, a term used to described the weakening of the magnetic field of the earth over the next two or three thousand years where the magnetic poles of the planet actually FLIP, where east is west and north is south and that should be around the same time Jerry gets ready for his new facelift. I hope that Flipping process of the earth magnetic field happens soon....
I would like to see carpenter
replace Adoyele. He is younger, faster and more athletic. He is better in pass coverage as well. Depending on his cap number they could let him go.
by Cowboys81 on Feb 11, 2008 6:41 PM CST up reply actions
but he isn't as strong at sheding blocks.
which as a 3-4 ILB is extremely important.
sure he is
6'3 260 lbs. I would think so. Weakside ILB's don't need to shed blocks. How often do you see Adoyele blitzing or coming through the line? Carpenter is more than capable of playing ILB on the weakside.
by Cowboys81 on Feb 11, 2008 8:02 PM CST up reply actions
thats not what the Cowboys coaches say
they say he can't shed blocks and 3-4 ILBs definitely have to be able to shed blocks well, weakside or otherwise.
now your making things up terry
by Cowboys81 on Feb 12, 2008 8:04 PM CST up reply actions
call JJT a liar, not me, he's the guy
who said he talked to the coaches and they told him Carp wasn't strong enough to shed blocks. Go back to JJT's inside Valley Ranch archive, you can read it there. I also read it from more than one source.
BTW, how in the hell do you know what people in the organization say??
that would be well known
I would think if somebody, including Jerry or Wade saying that. Spags or Eatman would've been all over it. I'm on that site daily for the past 5 years and listen to all there programming and they never mentioned a sniff of Carpenter being weak. They have said he is caught up in a numbers game. They have never called him a bust. Eatman has said he thinks Carpenter would be a better option than Adoyele.
As far as JJT. That was your first mistake listening to him because knowbody does. He rarely knows anything when it comes to the Dallas Cowboys.
by Cowboys81 on Feb 12, 2008 10:37 PM CST up reply actions
Carp sux....
You don't need to read it anywhere...use your eyes..
by BoyzRback07 on Feb 12, 2008 11:01 PM CST up reply actions
He doesn't suck and that's way off base
You have to see someone play first before making that determination. I seem to remember he had an excellent game in the Seattle playoff game.
He if want to say that JJ or Spears sucks I would agree. At least we saw them play for an extended period of time.
by Cowboys81 on Feb 13, 2008 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
I watched him play.
I watched every preseason game from this past season..he continuely was out of position or getting man handled...he is a weak side LB in a 4-3....period...
I'll bet you 20 bucks he gets traded on draft day. Wade Philips will not play this guy on his defense as long as he's coach of this team.
by BoyzRback07 on Feb 13, 2008 3:47 PM CST up reply actions
Keep an eye on da Pats...
... with Seau & Bruschi up in age and their recent reach for LB-TJ Slaughter (who was out of football last season), experienced linebackers are something they'll be in the market for.
I wouldn't be surprised if da King got in contact with Mr. Kraft in a deal for Carp.
I see it happening
Carp will draw serious interests from da Pats,
If DMac falls to 7...I'll guarantee you Jerry will get it done...
I also see us trading him to Detroit, along with our 2nd round pick for Roy Williams.
by BoyzRback07 on Feb 13, 2008 4:42 PM CST up reply actions
um.. nope
Those guys are the beat writers for a reason. They see more than JJT. JJT is well known for not knowing what the heck he is talking about.
by Cowboys81 on Feb 13, 2008 12:07 PM CST up reply actions
Deke is right
the draft is a 50/50 proposition at best. Even the teams that traditionally draft well with veteran, seasoned GMs don't hit on every player selected. If you hit on half of your picks, thats a very good draft, however, most of the time teams are lucky if 2 or 3 players make it.
The 2005 draft was an exceptional draft for us getting Ware, Burnett, Barber, Canty, Ratliff and Crayton. Rarely do you have a draft that productive.
Its easy to look back and say we should have drafted Cromartie over Carp today, but back then Cromartie was viewed as a somewhat risky pick and like Deke said, we were looking for a 3-4 LB in case Ellis couldn't transition form DE. I was hoping Wimbley from Cleveland would have fell, but he didn't and we were stuck with Carp.
Such is the draft, its a crap shoot and there is no such thing a can't miss prospect. Scouts can measure almost everything except a players heart and passion which is really the intangible qualities that matter the most and which is why Romo, a superstar pro bowl QB, and Welker, the WR who really is the key to the Pats offense, went undrafted. Scouts don't have a way to look into a players belly to see if they have the fire needed to play the game at a high level.
Yeah, 2005 was a Grand Slam!!!
And you're right in your paragraph when you said...
Its easy to look back and say we should have drafted Cromartie over Carp today, but back then Cromartie was viewed as a somewhat risky pick and like Deke said, we were looking for a 3-4 LB in case Ellis couldn't transition form DE.
It does make you wonder that if Parcells was the HC in the just-completed '07-'08 season, if Carp would've gotten more PT.
Side note. Your subject line was a shocker, Terry:
Deke is right
It's not often that we see you type that.
Couldn't have said it better myself Deke
Carpenter was rated 18-25 in the draft, he wasn't reach, we were changing to the 3-4 and didn't know Ellis would be able to make the change to OLB, we needed ans strong side backer, lawson wasn't that, and he has been strugling in San Fran. Carpenter has been moved from inside and outside and back again so much, he has very little confidence, and when he does get a chance to play, he's playing not to make a mistake, you cant play in the NFL that way. Before we start throwing the word BUST around, especially after two years, can the kid get a chance to play first, something he cant do because of the depth at inside linebacker, ask yourself, who are you taking out of the starting lineup inside for him to start over. Burnett has been here longer than Carpenter, he was taken early in the second round, and he has yet to crack the starting lineup, he's in his fourth year and besides this year where he has shown improvement, the best thing he was known for prior to the last season was, the injury list and how many times he was on it.
This was my point a few weeks ago about Carpenter, but got blasted for it. People are so freely willing to label a player a bust when he hasn't had a shot at playing. For heavens sake, the guy was drafted at #20, not #1. Let the man play first like Spears before calling the player a bust will ya. Burnett was in the same boat, but recently after 4 years had his chance. I didn't see anyone calling him a bust and he was here before Ware and Adoyele. 3-4 schemes need alot of LB's so before Carpneter was drafted depth was a problem.
by Cowboys81 on Feb 11, 2008 6:39 PM CST up reply actions
Carp needs to go to a 4-3 team so that
he can be protected be a DE, not strong enough to play in a 3-4.
Would love to see your prove
that he is not strong enough...lol
Where has it ever been said anywhere, that Carpenter is not strong besides yourself??
I'm waiting Terry.
I don't want to hear because he isn't starting because that's not good enough.
by Cowboys81 on Feb 11, 2008 8:05 PM CST up reply actions
heard lots by sportswriters who talk with our
coaches say he isn't strong enough. Believe me, this isn't my evaluation, I'm going by what the Cowboys coaches and scouts are telling everyone when asked about Carp.
Not only have I heard it....
I've seen it during Carps limited action in 2006.....I think Parcells even compared Carpenter to a Kleenex if my memory serves me correctly.
by Fargo Cowboys on Feb 12, 2008 7:14 AM CST up reply actions
I totally agree with Terry...
sorry guys.....I know it stings some to realize Bobby Carpenter is not all he was touted to be.....I for one didn't think he'd succeed here ...I think alot of his success at OSU was directly attributed to the fact he played on dominating defense along side a superior LB in Hawk.
I watched several of his games during his college career and never really thought much of him...The
fact he was projected to the late first early second had alot to to with where he played, and the fact it was also, IMO a weak overall LB crop....The fact they we were building up depth for a newly transformed 3-4 defense, is the only reason he was being considered..It certainly wasn't a BPA situation.
IMO, we reached for him, as I have a good feeling we could've traded down to 22-28 range and still got him....but that's besides the point.
He is not cut out for the 3-4 defense, and would most definately do better in a 4-3. Whatever flash of brilliance he may have dazzled some of you guys with his play in a playoff game over a year old against Seattle.
.....Should have been completely wiped away with the one preseason game he played exclusively in this past season, and stunk the whole place up beyond belief. It was that game that nailed his coffin...and you haven't heard from him since...Kevin Burnett is far better than him, and it would be best served for us to facilitate a trade out of here as soon as possible while he has some value.
Ironically, I see an eiry similarity to this years linebackers...a few stud "projects", or tweeners in Gholston, Merling, and Groves...and unspectacular but consistant true backer in Dan Conner...along with some smallish speedsters in Highsmith and Adibi...The best linebacker in this years draft is Keith Rivers of USC...and he's only valued by teams in a 4-3 defense.
by BoyzRback07 on Feb 11, 2008 9:15 PM CST up reply actions
I have to disagree
Carpenter would excel as a 3-4 weakside LB. He has the size and speed to play the position. Some with in think he would be an upgrade over Adoyele. Nick Eatman said recently the same thing. Adoyele hasn't done a whole lot to cement the position so making a change wouldn't be a shock to anyone. Because of Adoyele's escalating cap figure Carpenter could get his chance. I follow OSU football and Carpenter was a very good LB for them. Both AJ Hawk and Carpenter fed off each other. AJ Hawk is a very good LB, but he hasn't exactly warranted his high draft status. I thought Hawk was overrated and over drafted to be honest.
by Cowboys81 on Feb 12, 2008 8:15 PM CST up reply actions
you missed the reason why
Carpenter was drafted. He was drafted for insurance in case Ellis could not make the transistion from DE to OLB. It was also unlclear if Singelton would be back so depth was a concern. It needed to be done. As it turns out Ellis made the transistion.
by Cowboys81 on Feb 11, 2008 6:30 PM CST up reply actions
Here's a tribute to all of us...
... who have begun the suffering of football withdrawals and fantasy football flashbacks -- because according to our great minds, we're always right.
I have nothing to add
I just wanted to be comment #100 on this thread. Woo hoo!
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