Draft Memories: Bobby Carpenter
by hubcityraider on Mar 28, 2008 1:07 PM CDT
47 comments
In 2006 the Dallas Cowboys selected Bobby Carpenter with the 18th pick of the draft.
Notable:
- Antonio Cromartie, CB
- Santonio Holmes, WR
- Joseph Addai, RB
Round 2:
- Cedric Griffin, CB
- Anthony Fasano, TE
- Devin Hester, ST
Looking back on that draft it appears poor with lots of busts even taken before Carpenter. However taking Cromartie or Addai instead would have made a significant difference. Especially as our needs pertain to 2008.
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you can do that with any draft
there are always players that turn out to be studs that teams pass on all the time. Like Parcells said, its a 50/50 proposition and that is so true.
by Terry on Mar 28, 2008 1:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
no doubt
But if you are going to go all "Best Player Available" instead of addressing needs then it better be a hit instead of a miss.
by hubcityraider on Mar 28, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's only 50/50 if you suck at it...
If you can't pick one player out of over 250 that can immediately help your team...your not a good GM.....and no...I don't think Parcells is good at selecting players, He's a 50/50 guy at best......
The Pats, Baltimores, San Diegos of the league always make sound picks...more like 85/15 first day.
by BoyzRback07 on Mar 28, 2008 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
with you about Parcells in the 1st round. I didn't like one of his 1st round picks when he was here. I will say that he did an amazing job in later rounds. Witten, Barber, etc.
by calebsmith on Mar 28, 2008 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hindsight
No one hits a home run every year. Think of all the franchises that kick themselves for passing up on Ware in 2005. And all those teams that now need QBs that didn't think that Romo was even worth a passing glance in 2003.
You can't get it right all the time, but as long as you get it right more often than you get it wrong, you're going great.
by Nelson on Mar 28, 2008 1:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
*doing, not going.
by Nelson on Mar 28, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree Nelson, although you'd really like
to hit on the majority of your first day picks who you invest decent money. I think if you hit 75% of your 1st and 2nd rounders and 50% overall, you're doing a better job than most teams.
by Terry on Mar 28, 2008 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Manny Lawson was going to be the pick
...and should have been. Wouldn't have needed to pick Spencer last year.
I will never understand why they took BC. He was a poor fit in their system, continues to be today, and has no future in Dallas.
You can't waste first rounders in this league. Just can't.
by MPC4LIFE on Mar 28, 2008 3:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
that was clearly a Parcells pick
we needed depth at OLB and Parcells coached his dad, as I can recall, everyone thought it was a no brainer at the time.
by Terry on Mar 28, 2008 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you had to have "no brain" to pick him...
he was rated no better than #26 on any draft board. I personally felt like he should've went high 2nd round...And even that would've been considered a bust at this point.
by BoyzRback07 on Mar 28, 2008 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Manny Lawson hasn't turned out so
great has he?
Can't label a player a bust when he has never been given an opportunity to prove himself. Get over it people he's not going anywhere.
by Cowboys81 on Mar 29, 2008 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, he's done more than BC...
...despite missing nearly all of last season. Looking likely that he'll be a better pro than Carpenter will ever become.
by MPC4LIFE on Mar 30, 2008 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Manny Lawson has also started
Carpenter has not. SF wasn't overloaded at LB either like we were during the time he was drafted. I'm sure if Carpenter was in the same situation as Lawson when he was drafted he would still be starting.
Lawson has already shown he is fragile and injury prone. Carpenter hasn't had a chance to shine so the comparison is not accurate.
by Cowboys81 on Mar 30, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carp has been given plenty of opportunities
to start over the last 2 tears by showing the coaches what he's got in practice and preseason games.
The fact is he hasn't shown the coaches anything which is the reason he hasn't started.
Like Phillips said, if you're good enough he'll find a way to get you on the field just like he did with Ratliff. Bottom line is that Carp isn't good enough.
by Terry on Mar 30, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 Terry.....
by BoyzRback07 on Mar 30, 2008 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Terry the kid has had
very little chance of showing his talent. The problem is for the hundrenth time we have too much depth and too many dollars spent on the others to sit them to see what Carpenter can do. He needed an injury to happen to get on the field and it didn't happen.
This year should be his year because Ayodele will be cut or traded and I'm not counting on Zach being able to play a full season.
by Cowboys81 on Mar 30, 2008 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats not true Cowboys81
If Carp was better than James or Ayodele or even Burnett he would have played more.
He's had 2 years worth of chances on the practice and playing field, just didn't show much.
by Terry on Mar 30, 2008 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
James and Ayodele and Burnett are decent players, so beating them out is much tougher than Lawson's job in SF. But if Carpenter were better than the guys we have been playing, he would be out there more. He's just not.
by grapejoos on Mar 31, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Adoyele was signed as a
3-4 ILB and Burnett was already an experienced OLB so to expect a rookie to come in and beat out two experienced players as a first year 3-4 LB is a stretch. You have to remember Parcells didn't bring in Carpenter to replace Singleton's position, he brought him in as insurance in case Ellis couldn't make the transition. Carpenter was never drafted to be a starter from the beginning. Carpenter was caught up in a money and numbers game. Now if Ayodele gets cut Carpenter should see increased playing time behind Zach. Keep in mind also Zach is on a one year deal and Burnett is in the last year of his contract so Carpenter could be the new starting ILB next season.
by Cowboys81 on Apr 1, 2008 1:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
Bobby C could be next to Bradie on the inside next year -- starting! Burnett will want to go somewhere where he can be a starter and Zach will be a reduced time player after a stellar Superbowl run this year. Carp is our future. Ayodele may stick around cuz he's such a cool guy to have on the team and he can back up ILB or OLB. If he keeps the starting spot, then Carb will definitely start on the nickel.
Hey, maybe we should be starting to draft backup ILBs. Looks like we give them 3 years to develop anyways
by Aaron Novinger on Apr 1, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thomas actually signed 3 year deal....
by BoyzRback07 on Apr 3, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
And I still say we needed another OLB more than an ILB. After watching Lawson at NCSU, it should have been apparent he would be a better fit at that spot than Carpenter.
The best guys get on the field. If Carpenter was decent, he'd get more PT...it's not like our ILB's are the best in the league.
by MPC4LIFE on Mar 31, 2008 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lawson was a bad fit for a 3-4
strong side OLB in Parcells defense. The very reason Carpenter was drafted. Many thought prior to the draft he was too small to play OLB and it appears they may be right, because he can't stay on the field consistantly.
by Cowboys81 on Apr 1, 2008 1:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's obvious that Carpenter
is a bad fit for a 3-4 too. I wouldn't mind if he was a 2nd or 3rd rounder, but shheeeesshhh, he wasn't worth that 1st round pick
by calebsmith on Apr 1, 2008 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carp sucks.....quit defending him.....
Oh...But he played well for about 20 minutes back in 2006, in a spot duty role against Seattle.....
How old is that line ?????
Ship him out with a draft pick to anyone who'll take 'em...
jeeeezz..
by BoyzRback07 on Apr 3, 2008 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Parcells
Gets fixated on people and isn't swayed by conflicting opinions. That's what led to Spears and Carpenter, but it also gave us Chris Canty and Bradie James. There are pluses and minuses to that philosophy. It's also why you USE your coach's evaluations, but don't build a draft board around them. Ware, Newman, Barber, even Spencer to a lesser degree- they're examples of a good team of scouts making the proper decision.
by BudLight on Mar 28, 2008 5:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not convinced
that Carpenter is a bust. In fact I'm still in the mind set that he'll become a very good LB in this league.
by sublimezg on Mar 28, 2008 5:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
just not in Dallas.
We need to trade him after this season...although i'd be willing to do it now...even with a huge cap loss..but i think Ayodele is as good as gone...maybe even this weekend.
by BoyzRback07 on Mar 28, 2008 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carp
In fact I'm still in the mind set that he'll become a very good LB in this league.
Maybe, but it feels like it won't be as a Cowboy. He has this year to come up with the goods, and if he can't, there's going to be a divorce.
His Seattle game seems like forever ago, and I don't know how much longer one game can be used as a valid defence for trying my patience. I had high hopes for him, and I kept the faith for a long time. If Ayodele is cut/traded, that only increases his chances of getting the field. Hopefully, he will make something of them.
by goodjobtimmyheresabluestar on Mar 28, 2008 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he's not on the roster next year
how much you want to bet he becomes a Seahawk? :)
by sublimezg on Mar 28, 2008 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, then Tim McMahon
can take what Carp did against Seattle, prorate those stats over a 16-game season and predict an absurdly HUGE year for him based on one game like he did for JuJo...hilarious
by Starred4Life on Mar 28, 2008 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he couldn't even make Seattle's squad....
they are set at LB....he needs to go to Cincy...where he belongs....give the home town kid discount...
by BoyzRback07 on Mar 28, 2008 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cincy or N.O.
They both need LB's. I hope we hang on to him and he becomes even more of a contributor. It's too bad we took him in the 1st round, otherwise I'd say he was a good pick.
I was on the Manny Lawson bandwagon that year, but he really hasn't done much yet either. One good thing from that draft was Dallas still had to get a OLB to eventually replace Ellis, and I think Spencer is going to to be a stud.
by APerfectStar on Mar 28, 2008 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carp and #28 for Chad Johnson.....
is what we really should be doing..
by BoyzRback07 on Mar 29, 2008 4:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carp is not going anywhere
not with a 4.5 mil cap hit to trade or release him. Just like it would cost Cinci 8+ mil to trade or release CJ. Not happening!
Carpenter is going to be here for at least another 2 seasons.
by Cowboys81 on Mar 29, 2008 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
don't know why everyone wants to take a hit...and give up on carp!
If we are gonna take a cap hit...it would be for roy williams
by TrueBlue24 on Mar 31, 2008 8:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That will happen next year
for Roy, the cap hit is just too much of a cap hit to take this year, so he better show up this year, he's running out of chances.
by Deke on Mar 31, 2008 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2006 Draft Problem
The problem with the 2006 draft was that the first and second round picks were used on the wrong positions. Good teams don’t waste premium draft picks on non-impact positions. Jack-of-all-trades (master of none) linebackers and backup tight ends have no business being selected with first and second round picks. Those guys should be picked with 4th-7th round choices.
Quarterbacks, stud wide receivers, offensive tackles, cornerbacks and pass rushers. Those are the most important positions on every NFL team and also the most difficult positions to fill with later round draft picks. Any first or second round pick not being used on those positions stands a very good chance of being underutilized or, in the case of the Cowboys 2006 draft, wasted.
Will the Cowboys learn from their mistakes? Doesn’t sound like it. It seems to be a given that one of the first round picks will be used on a running back even if Marion Barber is signed to a long-term deal, and now I’m hearing rumblings about a safety being selected with a first round pick. My vote is to use one of the top three picks on a cornerback and the other two on the best available players at one of the following positions: cornerback, wide receiver, pass rusher and offensive tackle.
by Cowboy Louie on Mar 30, 2008 10:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I disagree Louie... a need at RB is too pressing
RB's are still the lifeblood of every offense...I don't prescribe to that BS that RB's aren't a priority position. And it's simply LUCK if you can find an NFL worthy RB after the 2nd round.
We're the Dallas Cowboys guy....We don't do late round RB's here...never have, never will....Jerry....as well as I, you, and everyone else wants a stud RB in the backfield. We have the luxury of 3 first day picks...and it's a sure thing RB will be one of them...
If we don't come out of this draft with one of the top 5 backs....I'll be pissed, and would consider this draft a failure no matter what.
WR are only a prime targeted picks in the first round , ONLY if they're worthy ones out there...This is not the year to be grabbing 1st round WR's...Only 4 are worthy...Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly, Limas Sweed, and DeSean Jackson, and all or most should be drafted before we get a chance...IF Pacman is signed before the draft, I would be willing to select one of those guys with pick #22. That would make RB even that more important at pick #28....maybe Felix Jones is still there...maybe Jamaal Charles needs to be considered.
CB is sorta the same....After the top 2 , (McKelvin,DRC) I don't feel we should reach for any of the others til pick #28.....I'm not totally sold on Jenkins, and Talib is surely someone i'm not backing to be our first pick.
Antoine Cason, Reggie Smith, Talib,or safety Phillips at #28....Stewart, Jones, or Mendenhall at #22.
Round 2 should be DB, Godfrey,Porter,King,Barrett, Morgan,Flowers.....or WR Caldwell,Manningham,Bennett,or Royal...or LB, or OL, or DL..
by BoyzRback07 on Mar 30, 2008 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ummm... I think you forgot...
We're the Dallas Cowboys guy....We don't do late round RB's here...never have, never will
Have you forgotten that one Marion Barber III was chosen with the 109th pick of the draft.....which corresponds to the fourth round? The fact is that outstanding offenses in today's NFL can and often do use a running back-by-committee approach, with those running backs acquired by mid-round draft choices, late round draft choices, trades and free agency pickups.
I will defer to your knowledge of all the college players you listed above. I simply have never seen any of them play and you obviously follow them with a passion. I do know three things though:
- First, talent evaluation is at best a 50/50 proposition in the first round, with the odds deteriorating as the picks become lower;
- Second, the positions that have the most impact the success of a football are not 50/50 propositions - they are very predictable; and
- Some positions are much easier to fill without using premium draft picks (see: running back)
I stick by my assertion that all three first day picks in 2008 should be used on impact positions if MB3 is signed long-term. If he is not signed to a long-term contract, then I guess I would be ok with using one of the top three picks on a running back, but only because the Cowboys have done an extremely poor job of finding running backs during this offseason.
I also stick by my assertion that using first and second round draft picks on inside linebackers and backup tight ends was the real problem with the 2006 draft.
by Cowboy Louie on Mar 31, 2008 7:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with the '06 failure..that's all Parcells
He's an idiot when selecting picks...I am not sure who ever claimed he was a draft guru.....You can go back to the beginning of his career....he's always sucked...Only time he hit was when he was choosing in the top of drafts....Free agents are what got us back on the map.....not our picks...Ware being thee only stud drafted over the past 4 years...sure....few will argue there's others that should be mentioned..Ratliff, Canty, ...all are servicable...yet no clear studs...and those were mere luck if anything...
but i'm not going to mention them....I'd prefer to mention the misses...Spears, Carp, Fasano, Hatcher, Green, Peterman, Rodgers, Jones, etc. etc. etc.....
MBIII....sure, he's exciting and surely a horse...but I still don't place him in the elite category......let him get 16 starts under his belt before we place LT status on him...
I can assure you, even with this top RB group available this year....you will not find too many gems, or future stars in round 4 or later..... The talent level drops dramatically after round 3.
I stick by my assertion that all three first day picks in 2008 should be used on impact positions if MB3 is signed long-term.
Well...MBIII is NOT signed long term.
If he is not signed to a long-term contract, then I guess I would be ok with using one of the top three picks on a running back,
This is all I'm trying to say here.....And the first rounders available, are far better than the second rounders.
but only because the Cowboys have done an extremely poor job of finding running backs during this offseason.
It's not like there were an abundance of top quality RB's available in '08 FA.....Michael Turner the only one I would have considered...
And the biggest reason i'm even refuting your opinion is because you are basing everything on the contigent signing of MBIII to a long term deal....I don't see that happening guy...We're going into this draft with the notion of MBIII being too expensive to keep around, cuz I don't see Jerry paying him 7 mil/ per....and that's exactly what it will take...
by BoyzRback07 on Mar 31, 2008 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
boyz, I think you're forgetting somebody
Ware being the only stud drafted over the past 4 years
what about MB3, you don't think he's a stud?
by Terry on Mar 31, 2008 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well..I was talking starters over past four years
by BoyzRback07 on Mar 31, 2008 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about Jason Witten?
Do you consider Jason Witten a stud?
These are the TE's that were drafted before him:
Dallas Clark
Bennie Joppru
L.J. Smith
Teyo Johnson
Knowing what we know now, I would have drafted him before all of these guys. The only guy people have heard of is Dallas Clark.
by calebsmith on Apr 1, 2008 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Witten was drafted in 2003
boyz said guys drafted the last 4 years (2004), not last 5 years because then you have to include Newman as well.
by Terry on Apr 1, 2008 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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