Trading down to the second round (2008 Draft)
by goodjobtimmyheresabluestar on Mar 5, 2008 4:00 PM CST
20 comments
I know everyone is excited this year about having two first-round picks. However, for a number of reasons, I've got a sneaking suspicion that we might trade one pick into the second round. And chances are that it's going to be pick #22, which seems to be in no-man's land. So, reasons 1 and 2 are somewhat related, but bear with me -- here we go:
1. Star player availability at pick 22
2. Limited first round talent especially in our areas of interest
3. Restricted cap space
1. Star player availability at pick 22
From mostly browsing this site and reading everyone's opinions, there seems to be a consensus of can't miss players for the Cowboys when they pick at #22. Among the CBs, Leodis McKelvin and DRC are fairly desirable and for most, Rashard Medenhall and Jonathan Stewart almost seem to be no-brainers.
Unfortunately, all four seem to be highly rated and may already have been picked by the time Jerry Jones gets on the clock. I am discounting first-round WRs, which seem to be favored by some and not by others, and I must admit that my knowledge of them is not as comprehensive as of the other two positions. Also, I am pretending that the Cowboys will go ahead and pick one the players mentioned if available and not pull an SJax.
2. Limited first round talent especially in our areas of interest
Continuing from above, if those players are not available, it still leaves us with many choices at that position that don't have a concrete first-round grade. In that case, trading down becomes more viable because we pick again at 28 where we can definitely get more value for our pick. Essentially, by trading down, we have 3 second-round picks, which is great because a lot of players we like, at positions we need, have high second-round grades. Then, players like Aqib Talib and Felix Jones are still within our grasp.
3. Restricted cap space
Based on some possibly shaky math on my part and other views on this site, we might be 3-4 mil under the cap as it currently stands. Based on Brady Quinn's contract alone (picked at 22 last year), it seems that will not be enough to sign all our draft picks. Reworking our roster to make room for the draftees is probably inevitable. But the process will be made somewhat easier if we move down.
Therefore, trading into the second round, preferably in the top half, sounds attractive to me if the players we want are no longer on the board. I would love to hear what y'all think of it.
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I like your thinking
and I've been preaching the same for awhile now. Given the limited cap space we have and the amount of money it would cost to sign two first round picks trading down is very likely.
Given also, Jerry loves to trade down. I disagree that it will be the 22nd pick. I think we will trade the 28th pick for a player, or trade down that pick into the second round and draft King or Flowers. Our 28th pick is essentially a high second rounder. Jerry won't pay first round money for basically a second round pick.
My plan, draft our RB at 22 and pickup an additional second round pick by trading down the 28th pick. The value in the second round this year is tremendous.
by Cowboys81 on Mar 5, 2008 4:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
i coulds see us...
trading out of both picks...you have teams like 49's and the dreaded redskins who could use multiple first day picks...i know no one likes the idea but for us the differance between a late first and a second isn't that big but for other teams to add an extra first ,that might be a starter, is a big deal...i'm not sure if i like the idea, i'm just saying it wouln't suprise me...
by hashishkabob on Mar 5, 2008 4:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Great point about the 49ers
They have the 38th pick overall. If we could get that and a first next year (or another 2nd next year as well as a 3rd, San Fran can't be happy with last year's deal they made with the Patriots) for one of our picks, I'd be thrilled.
That being said, this scenario is incumbent upon the really quality players not being there. I have six guys on my list that I would take in a heartbeat if available: Sweed, DRC, McKelvin, Jenkins, Mendenhall, and Stewart. Similarly, if Talib, Malcolm Kelly, DeSean Jackson, or Felix Jones are there at 28 It'd be hard for me to trade that selection.
I think trading down is a great option, however, especially with our limited cap room.
by BudLight on Mar 5, 2008 7:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Trading the 22nd pick for a 2nd round pick
And a 1st round pick in 2009 might be a good idea. It just depends on who is there when the Cowboys pick.
Like others have said, one of these years maybe that extra 1st round pick will be a top 10.
Or, if they take someone at #22, I could see then sliding back into the second round and adding another low round pick instead of drafting at #28.
I can't see them trading both picks to move back. They really need a CB, and I think they need to spend a 1st round pick to get someone with talent that can contribute right away. I saw a interview with Coach Stewart where they asked him what his wish was for the defense this off-season. He said it was for another CB. It's almost universal opinion that Dallas needs a 3rd CB. That should be the 1st round pick.
by APerfectStar on Mar 5, 2008 6:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
There is only one thing to do ..TRADE UP
You would think a team with 12 Pro Bowl position players on their roster, we really don't have many needs...Well...we sure do...In a BIG way...
Let's break it down:
1)CB- This is far and away our biggest NEED, something needs to be done to aquire the best CB available, and add at least 2 others for overall depth at a severely depleted group.
I am totally against trading down to garner more picks later in the draft. Granted, this position does have overall depth into the 3rd round or so, but the talent level drops tremendously after the first 5 Corners.
There are only 3 CB's in this draft that can come right in and start, at least as the nickleback, and are worthy of a top 15 selection. IMO (DRC,McKelvin,Jenkins)
All three of them are still a bit raw, but have lots of upside, and can at least be trusted to man the 3rd CB slot, and all three offer kick return ability.
I'm not even going to get into the facts that both Henry and Newman will be 34 & 31 respectively after this season, and have a track record of injuries that make this position even more vulnerable. We aren't looking for a #3 CB in this draft, we need an eventual #1 CB in this draft.
Sure we stand pat at 22 & 28, and hopefully get one of the second tier CB's, or trade out of the 1st and get a shot at the third tier guys, which aren't much better than the forth tier guys..........OR
We trade UP, and secure a TOP TIER CB.............
What about RB & WR you ask ??..
Like everyone seems to think, RB's can be had later in round 2, WR's can be had later rounds 2 through 4...top flight CB's don't come around often...And i'm not looking to "settle" with what drops to us.
This poster thinks we can get 2 2nd rounders for our #22 pick....well..sure, maybe.
But why would we do that ?..We got a first, and second last year for the same pick #22....
There are only two teams in this years draft that own 2 2nd rounders..Miami & Atlanta...Two teams in dire need of picks and depth...I don't think either would be interested in losing picks to trade up...they'll probably trade down themselves to get more picks..
Using a growingly OLD draft trade chart....Our 2 1st rounders, if traded UP, would be worthy of 1,440 points...
New England at pick #7(1,480)
Would be an interesting draft partner..They can sure address their needs at #22 CB(Talib) and #28 LB(Conner) with our two picks.
Baltimore at pick #8(1,400)
Would sure like an early shot at the second rated QB's in the draft at #22 QB(Bromn or Flacco) and still get a decent CB(Porter or Cason) at pick #28.
Sure, there is a possibility DMac might be there at 7 or 8....and more than likely, we'd go after him...which I wouldn't object to, seeing I don't figure MBIII to be around after this year with his salary demands.
anyhow...this is getting very long...lol....I'd rather trade up to get DRC or McKelvin than trading down. I guess that's my whole point, to this exhaustively long reply.
The BEST possible move would to trade up with Atlanta...for our 2 1st, 3rd rd, Ayodele, and Henry.
In exchange for #3 & CB-DeAngelo Hall.Then trade down to 4,5,8,10,12,or 14. Dangling Matt Ryan, DMac, Jake Long, or whoever to teams in that range...This would recoup our picks that got us there in the first place...and still leave us in position to grab the top CB or RB left standing.
There would be plenty of takers for the #3 pick if WE owned it...we can trade down like 3 times within the top 15 and make out with 3-5 extra high round picks....and STILL get our targeted guy....lol..thoughts ?
by BoyzRback07 on Mar 5, 2008 7:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Trading Partner
The trick with trading Up or Down is you have to have a trading partner. Just because you desire to move to a pick that you believe is good value for player x or y, doesn't mean anyone will trade with you.
It will be interesting to see how many trades occur this year due to the reduction in time to make your choice. The 15 minutes in the first round has been reduced to 10 minutes. A large percentage of that time in the past has been spent listening to trade offers.
I agree the Boys #1 need is CB and we may need to move up to get a top flight CB. How far up is the question. #22 + #61 = 1072 points. Thats between picks 14 and 15, and would still leave #28 for ???
FYI...There are now 3 teams with two second round picks. Green Bay aquired a second 2nd round pick as part of the Cory Williams trade with Cleveland (Clevelands first pick is now their 4th rounder).
by DeRat on Mar 5, 2008 8:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree Rat....we'll see how FA plays out...
Will be alot better to gauge team needs a week or so before the draft.
I do like the trading of our 22 and 61, to get in the 14-15 range. Would be even better if we can throw in some cap unfriendly players to get a little higher though. Or a player and 22, cuz I sure don't want to lose that 2nd rounder.
There's no hiding my infatuation with DRC, and I'd take McKelvin as well.But moving up to 14 and not landing one of those two would be worthless, imo.
I guess that would surely land us a Stewart, or Mendenhall to wrap up our RB position. Or Kelly, Jackson, or Sweed if we wanna go WR....so..I guess that's not so bad either.
At #28, I'd expect CB's Tracy Porter to be there, possibly Antoine Cason, or DB Reggie Smith.....
Then I guess we can all go out for lunch...cuz day 1 would be over.
I guess when it's all said and done....I don't care who we get, Sure we all have our favorites, and some of us are going to be disappointed, no matter what...
IF you can give me 3 of any these players on day one, I'll be happy:
In order
Corner backs,
------------
DRC
McKelvin
Jenkins
Cason
Porter #28
Talib
Running backs,
--------------
DMac
Stewart
Mendenhall
Jones #22
Charles
Johnson
Wide receivers,
--------------
Kelly
Jackson
Sweed
Thomas
Hardy
Calwell #61
Who knows, We might even go to Indiana U to take two of them:
Pro Days Win over scouts:
Nobody had more to gain, or lose, than Hardy, who is trying to prove he's worthy of a first-round pick in April's draft, and the 6-foot-7 receiver seemed to perform well.
He dropped only two passes, improved his vertical leap by nearly six inches and finally got some hands-on training with NFL route-running.
For Hardy, it was another chance to showcase his talents after the NFL combine.
Some scouting services now have Hardy projected as a late first-round draft pick, and it appeared he did nothing to diminish that prospect Wednesday.
After having a substandard vertical leap of 31½ inches at the combine, Hardy leaped 37 inches Wednesday and he cut well while running the routes he rarely was asked to do in college.
Hardy didn't participate in every drill.
Among those participating were cornerbacks Tracy Porter. Porter, also a dangerous punt returner, certainly helped his stock by running unofficial times of 4.29 and 4.32 seconds in the 40 on Wednesday after being clocked at 4.37 in Indianapolis.
He also showed the scouts he has solid hands for a cornerback during the final drills of the day.
by BoyzRback07 on Mar 5, 2008 9:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Impressive
Re: Porter and Hardy. Good info. Just goes to prove that Combine drills should not be the final word on an athlete's measurables - especially the 40.
Alternatively, it can mean pro-day stopwatches are friendlier to the home players.
by goodjobtimmyheresabluestar on Mar 5, 2008 10:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well...maybe...but...
each and every scout at these pro day's takes their own stop watch with them...i know that much...plus they're all pooled together and exchange, thoughts, times, and other data...it's a pretty fair time...it's a matter of...which is quicker, the hand or the eye...Porter was considered a lightening CB anyhow...and iwanted in in the 2nd....but there is no way he makes it to #61.
if we don't get DRC....He or Cason are the CB's I want..
by BoyzRback07 on Mar 5, 2008 10:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Make up your mind Boyz.
In response to my post about Hardy and why I wouldn't be too sad if we got him at #28.
He's another Matt Jones...next....
at the very best he's a Joe Jervicious., or a Ed McCaffrey....not what I want roaming around Valley ranch the next six years....next...speed burner...or forget it.height and no speed relates to Mike Williams...
by Romo9 on Mar 7, 2008 10:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
did my comment have anything to do with Hardy ??
I don't get it..I actually posted that last post to highlight one of my favorite CB's in Tracy Porter...Who would be a fine pick at #28 if we stay put with our picks.......
I just posted the Hardy snip for reasons of people who may like him...and the fact that the combine isn't the only measuring tool that's used in evaluating players...IN fact, the pro days are much more indicative of isolating and working with a player to truely get a good gauge...
I repeat...I'd PASS on James Hardy, who hasn't run pro routes his entire college career, and he's actually too tall for my liking...he sure might have an alright 40 time, and be a red zone target, but i'm sure his seperation, shiftiness, cutting abilities, and fluidity is hampered by such a large frame...I best liken him to Ed McCaffrey...a good player....but never a great player...I'd prefer the speedsters in rounds 2 , 3, and 4...
so...with that...my mind is made up...ya see ??
by BoyzRback07 on Mar 7, 2008 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
trading down makes sense if all the
RB and CB studs are gone, which I highly doubt will be the case. RBs historically fall on draft day.
by Terry on Mar 5, 2008 8:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
DRC
If Dominique Rodgers Cromartie is still on the board, we better not move a muscle.
by Carl Shelton (GloryDayz88) on Mar 6, 2008 10:33 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
good points but...
IF we were to trade down both picks, we would have three 2nd rders plus our others and get three 1st rd picks next year...our team would have a chance at being able to do alot over the next few years...i'm just saying that if your going to make moves for the future, we're in a good position now to do it...but it would be tough to sit through a season if the draft picks we passed on blow up and have great years...
by hashishkabob on Mar 6, 2008 4:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
sorry guy...doesn't work like that...
If you think any team is going to give us their 1st rounder next year, and a second this year to get to #28....ya gotta be dreamin'...
Same can be said about our #22.....that's was purely a desperation move on Cleveland's part cuz they wanted Quinn so badly..that certainly wasn't an equal trade on their part...They knew Jerry wouldn't do the deal without the 1st rounder.
This is the year with depth at the positions we need...there's no way we trade out for any '09 picks....In fact, I'd like for us to trade our picks for next year to better our positions this year.
Next year's draft is considered to be the weakest in many many years...I'm all for trading down with our #28 pick...but don't expect a 1st rounder in return.
by BoyzRback07 on Mar 6, 2008 5:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe you missread...
what i wrote....but our 1st for another teams 1st next year and their 2nd this year is very reasonable...didn't buffalo trade us a few years ago and cleavland last year...it happens every year..
by hashishkabob on Mar 6, 2008 7:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Both times were for franchise QB's....
that's the only way that goes down...
by BoyzRback07 on Mar 6, 2008 7:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And it could very conceivably work out this year
Look at the way Brian Brohm has been sliding, and keep in mind that he was a projected top 3 pick as recently as several months ago.
by BudLight on Mar 7, 2008 8:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sucks for Brohm
I bet he was already planning to slowly ease into the starting QB position with the Falcons under Petrino. Oh well, best laid plans and all that.
by goodjobtimmyheresabluestar on Mar 7, 2008 8:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
your right...It just might happen.,..but..
I see alot of teams jockying to get in position to take Brohm, Flacco, and Henne...and there will be one team that wants to jump ahead of Miami and Atlanta, and Baltimore in round #2 to get their favorite. If Atlanta doesn't take Ryan in the first, they'd be primed to come looking for us, Baltimore as well, and KC, Chicago, etc....
Sure it can happen...But at a time when we have serious needs, I can't see defering again to next year...THIS is the year we need to do something special in the draft...I anticipate us dumping heavy contracts next year, freeing up all sorts of cap room...We very well can be losing MBIII, Columbo, Hamlin, Henry, Ayodele, R Williams, maybe even Newman & TO if a new deals can't get worked out.
by BoyzRback07 on Mar 7, 2008 9:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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