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Felix Jones vs. Rashard Mendenhall; the debate continues

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It looks like the Felix Jones vs. Rashard Mendenhall debate continues to be the one item discussed over and over about the Dallas Cowboys 2008 draft. It’s funny, but depending on which guy you like, you can make the stats slant in your direction or you can make the rationales for each pick work in your favor. And really, to me, both sides of the ledger have legitimate claims. But as Brandon wrote in this post, nothing will be settled until the 2008 season gets underway and we can see how effective both backs are at the NFL level. I already stated that if I was the guy turning in that 4x6 card at the draft, the name would have read Mendenhall, but this by no means says that I don’t think Felix Jones was a good pick. I’m not at all disappointed that we picked him and in terms of just the 2008 season, I still believe he was the choice that best fits our needs now.

Mendenhall may be the better everyday, workhorse back that you can feed the ball to over and over during a game. His size and speed are a potent combination. With the question of MB3’s long-term future in Dallas still undecided, I was looking at Mendenhall as the guy who would be his replacement in case we don’t get him signed. This also goes for the other back that I thought might be there for us at #22, Jonathan Stewart. In this case I guess I’ll have to defer to Jerry Jones who seems to be confident that he can eventually get MB3 signed so felt that he could pass on Mendenhall. Rashard would give us a lot of the same things MB3 gives us although with more speed and Jerry also covered his bases to some extent by selecting Tashard Choice in the 4th round who is sort of a mini-me version of MB3.

Like I said earlier, you can slant this in either direction to make your point. But a couple of arguments that have been made don't hold water. Like this one from JJT:

I would've gone with the guy who is bigger, a shade faster, just as quick and catches the ball just as well, although he doesn't return kicks.

A shade faster? I guess some people can’t let go of the 40-times at the one day event called the combine. I’m not dismissing that event altogether and have to admit I was impressed by Mendenhall’s 4.5 time. That’s outstanding. But all you have to do is watch both players on tape and you know that Felix Jones is the faster back. It’s also been noted that Felix ran a 4.37 time on the Arkansas campus. Really though, I don’t even need the 40-times to see which back is faster, it’s just obvious. Add on to that when I watch Jones on tape, it’s not just his top-end speed that was impressive; it was his ability to accelerate with his first step. His initial burst was phenomenal, the second he gets the ball from the QB he is moving at top speed. And his ability to cut and juke without slowing down is a special quality. Forget the 40-times; they are just a crutch to justify your side of the debate. Simply watch the players on tape and it’s obvious which guy has the faster game-speed.

Equally ridiculous is this quote from JJT:

I understand your point, but would you pass on LaDainian Tomlinson or Adrian Peterson or any other top runner because another runner could return three or four kickoffs a game?

Holy crap, now, without playing a down in the NFL, Rashard Mendenhall is LT or AP? It doesn’t get more absurd than that. LT shared time his first few years in college then was the man the last two. He never had a season less than 500 yards and had over 1,800 and 2,000 yards his last two years. He finished with over 5,000 yards! Are you kidding me? Compare that with Mendenhall’s 640 yards two years ago and over 1,600 last year. Come on JJT, let’s stay within a zone of reality. And AP? Over 1,000 yards all three seasons even though he had to battle through multiple injuries that limited his starts. As a freshman he had over 1,900 yards. It’s absurd to say Mendenhall is LT or AP.

Another point I’ve been trying to make about Felix Jones is that while he will be in a complementary role to MB3 this year, there’s always the possibility he could be an every-down back. He’s 5-10 and 207 pounds with a very solid build and will probably put on 5-10 pounds in the pros through weight-training and natural maturation of his body. I commented on a post before the draft that backs like Brian Westbrook, Willie Parker, Tiki Barber, Barry Sanders and Emmitt Smith, yes, even Emmitt, were about the same size at this point in their careers. I called him a scat-back once and that didn’t sit well with a lot of people. Maybe that was a bad term. What I’m trying to say is there isn’t anything that says he can’t be an every-down back at his size. Mickey Spags relays the Cowboys thoughts on this.

Jerry Jones, and even Wade Phillips, seem to be taking exception to people calling Felix Jones a part-time back, seemingly all ready to invoke the Eric Metcalf label on him as some sort of specialty back. "He's not a scat-back," Cowboys head coach Wade Phillips said, and Jerry Jones would remind you Felix is 5-10, 207. Not built totally the same, but recall Emmitt Smith came into the league at 5-9, 199.

Given all that though, it’s not Mendenhall the Cowboys were agonizing over in comparison to Felix, it was the other big back not named McFadden in the draft.  

Now the Cowboys thought there would be a tough decision to make at that pick, but they figured it would be between Felix Jones and Oregon's Jonathan Stewart, whose stock had been hard to read because of his toe surgery after the combine.

In fact, multiple sources in the Cowboys' War Room said the club would've drafted Stewart over Felix Jones had he been available, but it became irrelevant once Stewart was drafted 12th overall by the Panthers.

I like Mendenhall but it’s no guarantee he would be successful in a backup role to MB3. He seems like the kind of back who needs a lot of touches to really show what he can do and there are reports he wasn’t the happiest camper when he was a backup at Illinois. In 2008, in Dallas, he would have been a backup and might not be as effective as he would be as a lead back. Felix, on the other hand, simply excels at being a backup and makes the most of his limited touches. Seriously, I’ve hardly ever seen a guy get so much production out of limited touches. His total yards, yards per carry and touchdowns are phenomenal for a guy in his role. Long-term it’s a question mark for me, but in 2008, Felix Jones is the better fit.

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It wasn't obvious to me Grizz

I’ve seen both guys play and watched tape as well and IMO, Medenhall looks every bit as fast as Jones. Just go back and watch the Rose Bowl. Jones rarely faced defenses in the SEC with the team speed USC possesses, and Mendenhall blew right past their secondary all game.

Also, JJT wasn’t saying Mendenhall was as good as LT or AP, he was simply saying you don’t pass on a franchise back in the draft as LT and AP were considered franchise backs in their drafts.

Let me ask everyone this question, would their be any debate if McFadden fell down to #22 and the Cowboys passed on him to select Jones because McFadden is considered to be a franchise back?? Of course there would, its no different with Mendenhall, who was actually rated as a better back than McFadden by some scouts.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Apr 30, 2008 12:44 PM CDT   0 recs

I think there's a difference

McFadden stats, the man from day one on the campus:
Freshman: 176 carries, 1,113 yards, 6.3 ypc
Sophomore: 284 carries, 1,647 yards, 5.8 ypc
Junior: 325 carries, 1,830 yards, 5.6 ypc

Mendenhall stats, not the man from day one, only in his final year:
Freshman: 48 carries, 218 yards, 4.5 ypc
Sophomore: 78 carries, 640 yards, 8.2 ypc
Junior: 262 carries, 1,681 yards, 6.4 ypc

Also, the SEC has just as much speed or more than any conference in the country.

by Dave Halprin (Grizz) on Apr 30, 2008 12:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree

McFadden is better than Mendenhall, I don’t think it’s as close as Terry thinks it is. Now the teams they were drafted by are very different. Pittsburgh has talent surrounding Mendenhall, whereas, McFadden is going to have to create his own opportunities. But getting back to the Mendenhall vs Felix argument, I think Felix is a better fit for the Cowboys. Felix has had a better track record than Mendenhall, and seems like a harder worker. Plus he wants to be a Cowboys. Not so sure about Mendenhall.

T-New, shutting down WR's for Dallas since 2003

by APerfectStar on Apr 30, 2008 1:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not the only one that thinks that Tom

Mike Mayock and other scouts have as well.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Apr 30, 2008 1:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

But overall

I think more scouts and talent evaluators have DMac ahead of Mendenhall. Not that means a lot, few had Emmitt Smith above Blair Thomas, or gave Maurice Jones Drew a high rating.

But for me, I’d take DMac over Mendenhall any day.

T-New, shutting down WR's for Dallas since 2003

by APerfectStar on Apr 30, 2008 2:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

there's not much of a difference

between McFadden and Mendenhall regardless of what they each accomplished during their respective careers. Scouting and evaluating players is more than just stats, its about how they project to the next level, and many scouts felt Mendenhall projected just as well or even better than McFadden to the next level and both were considered to be franchise backs.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Apr 30, 2008 1:43 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

that just proves that not ALL scouts are very smart

...and no wonder you have a man crush on Mendenhall, you’ve been listening to Mike Mayock for the past 3 months. Mayock worshipped Rashard Mendenhall and Brandon Flowers and I don’t think either one of them will be as good as he thinks they are.

by calebsmith on May 1, 2008 4:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

not true

I’ve liked Mendenhall all season as he ran through Big Ten defenses like a hot knife through butter and the awesome USC defense as well which produced 3 first rd picks this season.

Mendenhall is an absolute beast and thats very easy to see while McFadden is just a taller version of Reggie Bush.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 1, 2008 8:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Another great article by the Grizz........

A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.

"If you don’t take him off the field as a coach, he will just about die out there," Jerry Jones said. "That impacted my decision. It’s a Michael Irvin-type work ethic. That’s what we are talking about with Felix Jones."
- Owner/G.M of the Dallas Cowboys , Jerry Jones

by BoyzRback on Apr 30, 2008 6:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I have to agree that STRAIGHT LINE speed is the same

But in terms of quickness there is no question that Felix is quicker, which may be why Mendenhall opted not to run the 3 cone drill. Felix has much more agility and quickness than Mendenhall without a doubt. When Mendenhall out ran USC’s defense it was a foot race that is not the same as quickness.

by quincyyyyy on Apr 30, 2008 12:59 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

lol

i’m curious about these other scouts…

just got ownaged

by Longhorn on Apr 30, 2008 2:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Mendenhall was only rated higher by Mayock

Consider yourself sucked.

just got ownaged

by Longhorn on Apr 30, 2008 2:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

thats not true

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Apr 30, 2008 2:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well

Who are the scouts you are talking about? I’d like to read their views on each RB. Thanks.

just got ownaged

by Longhorn on Apr 30, 2008 2:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I can't name them name

only going by what was reported by both ESPN and Network during the draft.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Apr 30, 2008 2:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

oh okay

just got ownaged

by Longhorn on Apr 30, 2008 2:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

LOL!

I agree. Mayock tends to have opinions that are kind of “out there”

by calebsmith on May 1, 2008 4:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Work ethic

... has to factor into any personnel decision. Wasn’t Mendenhall somewhat of a slacker in the weight room on on the practice field when he wasn’t the starter? How can you ignore that when you are looking for half of a running tandem?

Also, the contribution on special teams has to figure into the equation if you are evaluating a player’s total contribution to the team.

Advantage Jones.

Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.

by OskieOskie on Apr 30, 2008 1:09 PM CDT   0 recs

Only time will tell...

but at this point the comparisons are fairly simple.
Better in a two-back system? Jones.
Specifically, better compliment to MB3? Jones.
More explosive(big plays/touches)? Jones.
Better work ethic? Jones.
More useful to the Cowboys(versatility)? Jones.

Jones can more easily be assimilated into the Cowboys’ game-day strategies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_cowboys Pretty much required reading for any Dallas fan.

by oneinsider on Apr 30, 2008 1:46 PM CDT   0 recs

+1 on all counts oneinsider....points well taken into consideration during the selection.

A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.

"If you don’t take him off the field as a coach, he will just about die out there," Jerry Jones said. "That impacted my decision. It’s a Michael Irvin-type work ethic. That’s what we are talking about with Felix Jones."
- Owner/G.M of the Dallas Cowboys , Jerry Jones

by BoyzRback on Apr 30, 2008 6:17 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

This debate will rage into the end of the year... or further

Each side has valid points. But the bottom line is that we will not be sure until we see them at the next level. Jones seems to have an excellent 1st step wiggle that will help him elude tacklers even at the NFL level. Mendenhall made USCs defense look silly. They may both prove to have HALL OF FAME careers… or, more likely, they will both be decent backs in the NFL. Argue the sides all you want… and I will no doubt add my 2 cents… but the bottom line is that until they’ve carried the ball for a few games, or a few years, the jury will be out.

Tar Heels football will surprise this year

by DalaiLuke on Apr 30, 2008 1:48 PM CDT   0 recs

Two Things

1. Devin Hester ran 4.45 at the combine and we all knew he is faster then that. It proves Grizz’s point that 40 times at the combine are over-rated.

2. I think the whole thing is way over blown. We have one goal in mind and that is winning a Championship. I think the corner depth we acquired and how they play next year is more important. Playing good D is what wins Championships. New York got in done with D, Eli not turning the ball over, and running the football(led by a 4th rounder and 7th rounder). I’ll take Marion Barber and felix or Mendenhall over those 2..

by Wmillion on Apr 30, 2008 1:59 PM CDT   0 recs

Two back system

Someone forgot to tell the Steelers that Mendenhall can’t play as a backup or in a two-back set.

This pick will only work if Garrett can get Jones on the field and use him creatively. Let’s try the Pony offense or split Jones outside and let him work as a receiver. Throw in some screen passes and some reverses to keep the linebackers honest. Hell, let’s create some real confusion by trying a two TE, two RB set so that teams don’t know which side is the strong side. At a minimum, we need to rotate player packages on the same series, instead of last year’s system where Julius worked two series, Barber worked two series, etc.

If we’re going to justify picking Jones over Mendenhall because Jones can do things Mendenhall can’t, then it is up to Garrett to take advantage of those things.

by cstorm15 on Apr 30, 2008 2:07 PM CDT   0 recs

To me the story of this draft is that Garrett is on the hot seat

He’s been labeled a genius, now he can prove it.

by BigE on Apr 30, 2008 2:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yep

Phillips will be gone if the Boys fail to win a playoff game this season, he might be gone anyway. Garrett is going to be here for a while. Thank God.

T-New, shutting down WR's for Dallas since 2003

by APerfectStar on Apr 30, 2008 2:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't mean Garrett is under threat of losing his job

Let me restate. Garrett was given a golden goose of a offense. Most of our losses or near losses came when Romo was under intense pressure. Now he has new weapons that could be great at beating the blitz but he needs to be creative with how he uses them. His offensive genius label is what I see as on the hot seat.

Getting another top quality back like MB3 and another WR would have been easier on Garrett since we he wouldn’t have to come up with new ways to use those players.

by BigE on Apr 30, 2008 2:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Garrett's Offense

I think the offense would have been better next year w/out adding Felix & Bennett. Garrett’s playcalling will get better, not to mention the continuity of all the personnel. I am excited to see what Garrett does with his new “toys”.

by WestTxHornFan on Apr 30, 2008 4:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed

Jones is a very useful player but it will take some creativity (and execution) to utilize him to the fullest.

As for the Steelers, I’m not so sure that Mendenhall will be the backup. Parker is coming off of a broken leg and has taken some lumps over the years. I’ll be interested to see how that situation develops.

by grapejoos on Apr 30, 2008 2:41 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

totally agree cstorm15.....this will work...trust me...this is the most anticipated season in my 33 years of watching Cowboys football.

A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.

"If you don’t take him off the field as a coach, he will just about die out there," Jerry Jones said. "That impacted my decision. It’s a Michael Irvin-type work ethic. That’s what we are talking about with Felix Jones."
- Owner/G.M of the Dallas Cowboys , Jerry Jones

by BoyzRback on Apr 30, 2008 6:19 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Felix is our guy

We can second-guess all we want, and there are legitimate arguments on both sides. After a season or two we’ll really be able to look back and see what each back has produced and make some judgment about whether we made the right choice or not.

But bottom line is Felix is our guy, and he’s a great fit for us and likely to make a great contribution as a rookie. I’m stoked to see what he can do on the field, and how creatively he can be integrated into the offense by Garrett. We have so many offensive weapons, ground and air, and so many variations to keep teams off balance, create-mismatches to take advantage of weaknesses.

by scottmaui on Apr 30, 2008 2:33 PM CDT   0 recs

+1 scott......everyone should just get their popcorn ready...and relax....there's no changing picks now...

A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.

"If you don’t take him off the field as a coach, he will just about die out there," Jerry Jones said. "That impacted my decision. It’s a Michael Irvin-type work ethic. That’s what we are talking about with Felix Jones."
- Owner/G.M of the Dallas Cowboys , Jerry Jones

by BoyzRback on Apr 30, 2008 6:21 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think they took Jones

because they think he will help this year. Everybody knows Superbowl windows come and go faster than anything, so why not pick a guy who will compliment MBIII the best and give us the best chance to win this year.

You can never tell when this chance will go away, so the Cowboys have to take advantage right now.

by geetar85 on Apr 30, 2008 3:14 PM CDT   0 recs

plus he seems confident MB3 will get signed

and if he does, we’re good for at least several years with a great pair in the backfield, not just this year.

But regarding your point about this year, Dennis Dillon said it well:

The Cowboys no longer are in rebuilding mode; they clearly are a team that could – no, make that should – contend for the Super Bowl next season. So they went for players who can make immediate contributions.

by scottmaui on Apr 30, 2008 3:59 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

SEC RB's>Big Ten RB's

Since 2000, six Big Ten running backs have been taken in the first round. They’ve played 30 NFL seasons between them, and posted just 3 1,000 yard campaigns.

Since 2000, seven SEC running backs have been taken in the first round. They’ve played 37 NFL seasons between them, and posted 22(!) 1,000 yard campaigns. ALL of these players have at least one 1,000 yard season. The worst career (so far) belongs to Cadillac Williams, who was amazing as a rookie before injuries took their toll.

There are lots of running backs who are “big and fast” (Tyson Thompson, Troy Hambrick) but don’t have the skills to be productive against high level competition. The SEC is a higher level of competition (apparently) for running backs than is the Big Ten. Jones is a lower risk, period.

by TimSchultz36 on Apr 30, 2008 5:21 PM CDT   0 recs

Of course this all speculation

Emmitt also “lacked ideal size” and Reggie Bush was Jesus in cleats. How they run in the Pros is all that matters and no one will know fpor a while if either or both will succeed. I don’t really think the Cowboys intentionally took what they considered an inferior back because he’d contribute just for next year. I think they liked him better period – productivity over time, intangibles, etc. And I read somewhere that it was Garrett, not Jones, who wanted Felix, and Jason is probably looking much farther ahead than just next year with this franchise.

by dunkman on Apr 30, 2008 5:33 PM CDT   0 recs

Forget the Statistics Debate!

Heinz Field December 7 @ Pittsburgh
Felix and the Cowboys versus Rashard and the Steelers.
Settle it on the field.

I just hope Felix Jones scorches and torches Cleveland while Brady Quinn watches the carnage from the bench.

by DolphDallas on Apr 30, 2008 5:37 PM CDT   0 recs

lol....love the gusto Dolph mano v mano......

If Ohio St. can hold him to 2.5 yards per carry…just imagine what Doomsday is gonna bring…

A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.

"If you don’t take him off the field as a coach, he will just about die out there," Jerry Jones said. "That impacted my decision. It’s a Michael Irvin-type work ethic. That’s what we are talking about with Felix Jones."
- Owner/G.M of the Dallas Cowboys , Jerry Jones

by BoyzRback on Apr 30, 2008 6:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It doesn't matter....

...because the Steelers suck. :)

by Semblance on Apr 30, 2008 6:08 PM CDT   0 recs

Youtube

After watching youtube Felix Jones gives me that Reggie Bush feel. Loves to break it outside and catchs the ball well.

Mendenhall is a good runner between the tackles, he gave a guy a viscious stiff arm on his 1st highlight on youtube. it was crazy..

Man, Felix jones ability to add a totally different element (catching the ball out of the backfield and lining up in the slot from time to time)that is what i like, but Mendenhall as a NFL style runner is better in my opionon- He can through you, by you, and around you..

I just can’t wait to see what Garrett does with FJones.

by Wmillion on Apr 30, 2008 11:03 PM CDT   0 recs

How about a comparison of Felix Jones with Marshall Faulk?

Tar Heels football will surprise this year

by DalaiLuke on May 1, 2008 2:19 AM CDT   0 recs

very similiar game....but tough shoes to fill...Faulk is probably the best all around back of all time....

A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.

"If you don’t take him off the field as a coach, he will just about die out there," Jerry Jones said. "That impacted my decision. It’s a Michael Irvin-type work ethic. That’s what we are talking about with Felix Jones."
- Owner/G.M of the Dallas Cowboys , Jerry Jones

by BoyzRback on May 1, 2008 6:25 AM CDT   0 recs

Do you know of a RB in the history of the game that averaged more rushing and receiving yards per game than Faulk ?...I'll give you about a week to answer...good luck..

A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.

"If you don’t take him off the field as a coach, he will just about die out there," Jerry Jones said. "That impacted my decision. It’s a Michael Irvin-type work ethic. That’s what we are talking about with Felix Jones."
- Owner/G.M of the Dallas Cowboys , Jerry Jones

by BoyzRback on May 1, 2008 5:00 PM CDT   0 recs

+1

Faulk is probably the best as you say… i’ll save him some time and think of a couple names though i think Faulk was better than both – Thurman Thomas and Roger Craig…

by Scoobay on May 2, 2008 8:48 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

what about Emmitt?

Can’t believe Cowboys fans actually forget how good of a receiver he was coming out of the backfield not to mention he blocked much, much better than Marshall.

One other thing they have in common, they both stink as broadcasters. I know everyone has heard Emmitt on ESPN, however, Faulk is an NFL Network analyst and he’s absolutely horrible. The utter nonsense that comes out of mouth is laughable sometimes.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 2, 2008 1:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

true......they both should've rode out with the sunset....cuz their studio gigs are coming to a close....Did anyone notice Chris Carter came right in and took Emmitt's spot during the draft...

btw…..Emmitt was nowhere near Faulk in regards to being a legit receiving threat….speed, route running, etc….

Thurman Thomas and Roger Craig…..very good examples….but if I had to identify Felix Jones to any current or past running back greats…it would be Marshall Faulk…and low and behold…He even has Faulk’s #28 jersey number…

another guy I liken him to is San Diego’s James Brooks…..and if he comes close to either of those two…..I’m happy..heck…MBIII reminds me of Natron Means…..we got a tandem of old Chargers…...and if you look back….that was a dynamic duo….

A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.

"If you don’t take him off the field as a coach, he will just about die out there," Jerry Jones said. "That impacted my decision. It’s a Michael Irvin-type work ethic. That’s what we are talking about with Felix Jones."
- Owner/G.M of the Dallas Cowboys , Jerry Jones

by BoyzRback on May 3, 2008 8:05 AM CDT   0 recs

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