Vote for the BTB mock draft pick - Part II
by Dave Halprin on Apr 9, 2008 8:23 AM CDT
in Dallas Cowboys News
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PrintHey everybody,
Guess what? We’re back on the clock in the SB Nation mock draft. For those of you behind on the times we selected CB Antoine Cason at pick #22 and now we’re back for pick #28. I’m putting up basically the same list of players that we voted on before minus the cornerbacks (I’m not going to draft two corners in the first round). Also, I was going to add Branden Albert this time but he got picked, and I’m taking S Kenny Phillips off the list because my "spidey-senses" tell me that someone is going to draft him before our pick comes up. Technically, they are only at #24 posted, but I might have a little inside info, so I pretty much know what’s going to happen.
I’ll let the poll run most of the day but I have to turn in the pick later this evening so vote early (and often if you’re from Chicago. I kid!) If someone you want is not on the list, make a case for them in the comments.
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RB's
Is it just me, or is a 1st round pick wasted on a RB (unless of course there's a can't miss prospect like Adrian Peterson/McFadden available)? I'm guessing Ray Rice will have a better career than all three of those guys, and he can probably be had in the 2nd or 3rd round. I also think Felix Jones isn't any better than Julius was, and has the talent of a 4th round back. I like James Hardy, and though not choices, I think Kenny Phillips and Jeff Otah are solid talents available at 28.
Nah
You can get a back who's plenty productive in the late first. Look at those selected in recent years; Steven jackson, Jo Addai, Laurence Maroney. RBs don't have longevity, but they rarely bust. I don't have a problem with taking one in principle.
I do have a problem, however, with the reasoning that we take Felix Jones because he's a great complement to MB3. You don't need to take a first round player as a complement. Those selections are reserved for your stars, your playmakers, your building blocks. A first round back needs to be able to carry the load if Barber's salary demands exceed our budget next year, as seems likely, and I don't know if Felix Jones is the right selection in that regard. I know It's not an option in the MTD mock, but in this scenario I see Jerry trying every contact on his phone in an attempt to get a great vet WR.
by BudLight @ Blogging The Boys on Apr 9, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions
I saw
Steven Jackson as a can't miss prospect, despite his slide. The torrent of obscenity I let loose when the Buffalo trade was announced was legendary.
by NerdVernacular on Apr 9, 2008 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions
That's my problem.
I don't want to draft a RB in the 1st round to be just a "complementary" back. If you draft a RB in the 1st shouldn't he be capable of being "the guy" at some point?? Like if we let MBIII go?? I just think if we want a back like Jones to complement Barber then we should wait till the 2nd or 3rd rounds to get him.
by kameleon1 on Apr 9, 2008 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Makes sense
The only reason I can see for a first round back is if Marion won't be resigned.
addendum
That being said, I think Chris Johnson is the best RB of those 3 by a mile.
by NerdVernacular on Apr 9, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Ray Rice! Ray Rice! Ray Rice!
Finally, somebody brings up the little big guy. I think Rice can not only be a complement to MBIII in the same way M. Jones-Drew is to Fred Taylor, but he could also shoulder the load should something happen.
I just think it's weird to select a backup RB in the 1st round, but could be necessary right now. The rest of the choices would all be backup WRs, so I guess that shows how set Dallas is at their starting positions.
by Aaron Novinger on Apr 9, 2008 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions
I think we could
and still get rice,chris johnson,maybe even felix jones.
I personally think if we keep the #28 pick
that devin thomas would be the way to go>
Ray Rice..LMAO!
Is a third round RB. He is lucky if he plays 5 years in the NFL. I've seen this kid play all through college. He is a decent RB, but not a NFL starter by any means.
by Cowboys81 on Apr 9, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Take him in the 3rd, then.
End of 2nd if other name backs are gone, I'd have know problem with them taking Rice. The dude's good. He doesn't have to come in and start. Nobody even knows that MBIII will play another 5 years. The point is: Dallas is close to a run; they need a talented back like Rice.
by Aaron Novinger on Apr 9, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
He might have to start
the reason why we need to draft Stewart or Jones. Rice is not a starting RB. It's very possible MB3 may not get resigned so Jerry needs insurance this year. I'll take Chris Johnson or Jamal Charles before Ray Rice. Rice got beat up in college pretty good and needed to come out early. Many scouts think he will have a short career.
by Cowboys81 on Apr 9, 2008 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Ray Rice is a stud
No way he drops to the 3rd round. I would love to pick him up in the 2nd round. He can do everything, run up the middle, patience to follow his blocks, catch dump off passes, run screens. Durable, great balance, doesn't fumble, understands picking up blitzes, very smart. I really like this kid.
I have rarely seen him play
If he is so versatile, why is he not rated higher? He always seems to be rated a middle-round pick.
by goodjobtimmyheresabluestar (46717) on Apr 9, 2008 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Just IMO
Combination of size and school. He's also not a burner. Other than that, I don't see why he's not rated higher. He put up impressive numbers at Rutgers and carried the load without getting hurt. As far as I know he was the main offensive weapon, and that just makes his stats more impressive.
He reminds me of MB3, who slipped all the way down to the 4th round.
He reminds me of Cedric Benson
by JerrodWheeler on Apr 9, 2008 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions
How dare you sir!
A Curtis Enis comparison is uncalled for ;)
LOL. . .
Both were great college backs, big bruisers that can carry the load and don't project well to the NFL. That's all I meant. . .
by JerrodWheeler on Apr 9, 2008 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions
big bruiser ???? Ray Rice is 5'8" 198lbs
Curtis Enis was 6'0" 250lbs. projected his skills, and size to the 5th pick in the '98 draft...I like Ray Rice, but there is no way he's being drafted to start anywhere...Put him in a system which already has a big buiser, which can handle the load, and have Rice come in for a handful of carries to keep the stud fresh..he'll make a nice career for himself...Miami, St Louis, KC, Balt, Buf, at the top of round 3 looks like a pretty good spots.
by BoyzRback07 on Apr 9, 2008 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions
He'd be a great compliment RB
MB3 and Ray Rice both know how to play the RB position. Can't you see Rice following his blockers Adams, Gurode, and Bigg. The defense wouldn't even see him. I just like him a lot for his football IQ, and great balance. He's not as fast as Jones, Charles, and Johnson, but he's smarter when it comes to doing all the little things that a successful RB needs to do. He would be picking up 4 yards every time, while the other guys look to dance around in the backfield and try to bounce runs outside. They might get stuffed as much as picking up yards.
by APerfectStar on Apr 9, 2008 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey..if we don't get RB in the 1st.....
Rice would probably be the only RB left for us to take at the end of round 2....so...I'd be on board with taking him at #61...just not liking the serious mileage he's already put on his tires....If Matt Forte was still there at #61...I'd take Forte over Rice for sure....
RB Rankings
1 DMac
2 Menden
3 Stewart
4 Jones
5 Charles
6 Forte
7 Rice
8 Johnson
Just give me one of these guys...a top CB, a vet WR, a playmaking FB, a run stuffing NT, a SS prospect, a possible late round QB gem, and Adam Jones....and I'll be one happy camper.
by BoyzRback07 on Apr 9, 2008 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Shucks
by goodjobtimmyheresabluestar (46717) on Apr 10, 2008 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions
I like Smith a lot.
He can do it all. I just dont like him this early. But if wont leave round 1 with no backs. He should be one of the targets at 61.
by Carl Shelton (GloryDayz88) on Apr 10, 2008 7:09 AM CDT up reply actions
we need a speed guy not a slow
RB like Ray Rice. He will be a 3rd rounder bank on it.
by Cowboys81 on Apr 10, 2008 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Dallas might still pick up a speed back
Rice is not exactly slow either. I think he'd be a solid pick up. He fits the running game that Coach Houck will install. A power running game. Romo will pass for another season around 4,000 yds (hopefully), then MB3 and Rice can grind out the yards and eat up the clock.
by APerfectStar on Apr 10, 2008 1:36 AM CDT up reply actions
We don't need another MB3
we need a RB that is a threat to take it all the way whenever he runs with the ball. Be able to make people miss. Be a threat out of the backfield. A RB capable of doing the things Brian Westboork can do. That's what we need on this offense. That's not Ray Rice. That's Felix Jones. Why the heck would we want a slow RB to compliment MB3. That was the problem we had last season. Forget about Ray Rice, he would be the worst RB draft pick for what we need on this offense. Ray Rice is the last RB I would draft out of any of the top players.
by Cowboys81 on Apr 10, 2008 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
if think Rice is slow you obviously
never saw him play live, the kid is a speed demon if I ever saw one.
Um yes Terry I live
in NJ and went to 6 Rutgers games last season. I've watched him his whole career. He is a good RB, quick, but not fast. He is not a NFL starter. We couldn't depend on him if MB3 was lost to injury or not giving a contract extension. We need a capable RB of starting that is also a good compliment to MB3. Stewart and Felix Jones are those two players. Ray Rice on the Arkansas team wouldn't even be a third string RB. He is a 3rd round pick at best. The knock on Ray Rice is he takes too many hits. He got lumped up bad at Rutgers as the goto RB. The reason he left early. His durability will be in question at the NFL level many scouts have predicted, one of the reasons why he is not a top RB.
by Cowboys81 on Apr 10, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
he looked pretty damn fast to me
and made the entire Pitt defense look like they weren't moving when they tried to chase him down.
I was referring moreso to his running style. . .
Takes on a lot of tacklers.
by JerrodWheeler on Apr 10, 2008 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Rice is definitely a burner
I saw him play live against Pitt and he looked like a 4.3 guy to me, at least in pads, as he made the Pitt defense look like high school kids.
To the people saying its weird to select
a rb in the first round what do you mean by that? Is it because so many good rb have came out of the later rounds. I think you can find examples of all positions that have players that came out of the first round and were a bust or starter.
I mean what positions should you take in the first round then?The point is the draft is a mystery for most of the players. You never know what kind of player you are getting because there are so many intangibles that come into play.
I think its a question of priority
If MB3 is resigned, which I thought he would be, then there are weaker positions that could use an upgrade more so than RB. If he is not resigned or its looks very doubtful, then a first round rb makes sense to me too.
I'm not big on any of these options. . .
Personally, while I like Felix Jones, I don't think there is good value this late in the first round. If we can't trade back or for an established player, I'd look outside of RBs and WRs here.
I am in agreement
with you here. Nothing looks enticing. Any guards, safeties, or ILBs available here?
by Aaron Novinger on Apr 9, 2008 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions
We don't draft OGs in the first round
we typically pull our starters from the 2nd/3rd rounds unless we pick them up in FA as we have with our current starters. ILBs would be Jerod Mayo who is a beast, but what do you do with the 5 inside backers that we have now? As for Safeties. . .I think we look at safeties to ensure we have some additional depth behind RW and Hamlin, but not sure another 1st rounder is needed in the Defensive backfield unless it is a CB.
by JerrodWheeler on Apr 9, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
The 5 ILBs we have now won't last very long.
Zach will be here a year or two. Akin may be gone this year or next. Kevin Burnett is in a contract season. Bobby C may move outside where he's athletically better. Bradie James is the only lock in the middle.
Mayo would be a great pick, but it may piss some people off if taken early.
by Aaron Novinger on Apr 9, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions
but you can't carry 6 ILBs on the roster
by JerrodWheeler on Apr 9, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Chris johnson I think I like better because of
his recieving ability is suppose to be exceptional, and his speed is undeniable. so He might be more bang for the buck, even tho some would say its a reach. Other wise i might have gone with another CB if I could see whos there
by Badknees on Apr 9, 2008 9:59 AM CDT reply actions
I'm going with a trade here
Pick 28 and Ayodele to Detroit for Roy Williams, a proven receiver.
none of those running backs are worthy of a first round grade IMO, and I wouldn't draft a receiver in the first round, although Hardy has more upside, but not in the first round.
My dream selections without moving anywhere...
first round
pick 22, rb-Jonathan Stewart
pick 28, cb-Antione Cason
second round
pick 62, Dt-Red Bryant
third round
pick 91, Wr-Andre Caldwell
fourth round
Pick 126 Qb-Josh Johnson
Fifth round
pick Fb-Peyton Hillis
sixth round
pick Wr/kr/slot/-Dexter Jackson
Seventh round
pick OG-Shannon Tevaga
Just my two cents
only one more week of this silly season.....thank god!!
My dream sheet
1 Jonathan Stewart (RB)
1 Reggie Smith (DB)
2 Mario Manningham (WR)
3 Chilo Rachal (OG)
4 Frank Okam (DT)
5 John David Booty (QB)
6 Tommy Blake (DE)
7 Jehuu Caulcrick (FB)
by BudLight @ Blogging The Boys on Apr 9, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Your dream sheet is missing. . .
Defensive backfield players. Reggie Smith is nice, but transitioning from Safety to NFL CB isn't an easy transition. We only have 2 CBs on the roster that have played with either Alan Ball or Oglesby serving as the 3rd. Imagine if Newman or Henry were to get hurt. . .
by JerrodWheeler on Apr 9, 2008 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, for one thing
This is with the assumption that PacMan is signed.
Secondly, Smith played plenty of corner for the Sooners. If we're really that short at CB, I'm sure he could fill in capably.
I won't mask the lack of DBs, and wouldn't have a problem with picking up some other contributors-but I don't think anyone we pick up in the 3rd-5th round will be better primed for success than Alan Ball.
by BudLight @ Blogging The Boys on Apr 9, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed accept your later round picks . . .
I'm not in agreement with. Caldwell will never be more than a 3rd WR so I don't want to give a third rd pick on him.
I'd love for Jonathon Stewart to fall to us at 22, and I'd live with Cason at 28, but then we go awry.
At #62 Ray Rice is a potential option if we don't get Stewart, CB Tracy Porter, or CB Terrell Thomas of USC.
At #91 WR Jordy Nelson, WR Eddie Royal of VT, or Red Bryant/Andre Fuellen at DT
Also. . .at 28, LOVE the idea of trading for a Bouldin or Roy Williams, but I'm not going to give up Akin Ayodele AND a 1st Rd pick. Akin gets us another 4th/5th later in the draft.
by JerrodWheeler on Apr 9, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
If we don't trade for Roy, go with Devin Thomas
WR isn't as deep as RB in the first couple of rounds, and I think we would be able to trade up to the middle of the second to get Jamaal Charles who is nearly as good a compliment to Barber as Felix Jones and may have more upside and versatility (poor man's Reggie Bush).
I've been on the Charles bandwagon from the start
I don't know if he's a good fit here logistically, though, unless we trade down. He's not quite worth a first round selection, but is not good enough to slide to pick #61. Don't rule out a team suddenly craving a certain player and offering a sweet deal, as we encountered firsthand last year. In that case, I'd love to pick up Charles somewhere in the first fifteen picks of round 2.
by BudLight @ Blogging The Boys on Apr 9, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
This one was tough for me
I know like almost all of you are going to want Felix here but it would be very difficult for me not to take Chris Johnson. He's actually probably the 3rd back in this list of guys but when I watch his highlights I'm blown away at his ridiculous speed. He seems to have good vision and bounces off of tackles pretty well. I know his hands are small and he tends to fumble but he's my selection.
To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if we wait until the second round to start addressing RB's. While it is atop our needs, the drop off isn't much at all between now and then.
I'll take that as a joke.
Not even close. Chris Johnson is the next best RB after DMAC, Mendenhall, Stewart and Jones.
by Cowboys81 on Apr 9, 2008 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions
+1
That's pretty much the order I go by too. Heck, I'd put Kevin Smith and maybe Matt Forte before Charles.
by goodjobtimmyheresabluestar (46717) on Apr 9, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Matt Forte goes before Johnson...
I'm not even going to argue this nonsemse of Johnson, or Charles being better than Felix Jones....
I could only imagine that every pro scout and draft prognasticator in the entire world is completely wrong with their rankings... are THEY ALL wrong ??...
here's a clue.....
get one
by BoyzRback07 on Apr 9, 2008 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
and Ryan Leaf is the next John Elway...
head over to the SB nation blog Mocking the Draft. And you'll see Matt Miller ranks Jamaal Charles over Felix Jones.
And I do have a clue, a raging clue. Sorry I couldn't help myself.
Its not a Joke
Charles is faster, tougher, and can run inside. Felix can't. Charles also carried the load in college. I have no faith at all if Barber went down that Felix could carry the load given the fact that he is not a good inside runner and is not tough.
Felix Jones is like a poor man's Reggie Bush.
Chris Johnson is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overrated. Anytime he played against good competition he never performed that well. the 4.24 40 may fool some people but it doesn't fool me.
That aside I think Chris Johnson might be worth a 2nd round pick if a team plans on converting him to WR as he is a good route runner for a rb and has good hands. In the mean time he can be a return specialist.
I agree with you on Charles
look back and you can see me advocating for him. He is tougher, faster, and was a feature back unlike Felix. But I wouldn't mind either.
c' mon witth that.....
I like both, but favor Jones...but to call Charles a featured back when he has 17 career starts compared to Jones' 13 is beating a senseless horse...If Stewart, Mendenhall, or Charles enrolled at Arkansas....none of them would've started either...More than likely, they all would have transfered, and we wouldn't even be talking about them now.
The whole reason I've touted F Jones this whole time is because Felix Jones is a TEAM player, doesn't require the spot light, doesn't pout on the sidelines when he's not on the field of play,he's a cheerleader, an inspiring force, and when called apon, he is ready to go ...special teams, return man, slot receiver, 3rd down weapon, pure home run threat, etc. etc. etc.....He's simply the most humbled, selfless, team oriented competitor avalable in the entire RB class....
I don't give a crap if he can't run 25 times a game...I don't think any RB in the league should run that many times...This is a TWO back system, the sooner you can sh*t can that BS back up, complementary nonsense, and look at the attributes he brings to the table, you'll realize, there aren't many RB's that can equal his all around production... since 1946 there has not been one RB in the history of NCAA football that averaged more yards per carry for his career than this Felix Jones guy....Not Jim Brown, not Walter Payton, not Gale Sayers, not OJ Simpson, not Tony Dorsett, not Hershel Walker, not Barry Sanders, not Bo Jackson, not Emmitt Smith, not Adrien Peterson, not Ladamien Tomlison, not Eric Dikerson, not Earl Cambell, etc. etc.....In fact only 1 RB in the history of college football has ever eclipsed Jones' amazing 7.78 ypc career average....Glen Davis- Army - Heisman Trophy Winner...playing on the best team of the era, that ran a wishbone offense with two lead blockers on every play, and an entire unit totally geared to run the ball every single play....so....tough to compare....but I hope you understand where i'm coming from.
shall I continue ?...Ninth ALL TIME kickoff return average
I just wish the draft would get here already....cuz the more and more I come in here....the more absurd the comments are getting...
If we end up with Jamaal Charles over Felix Jones I'll have no problem....I don't see us taking him in the first,..and he sure isn't getting to #61......so good luck to us I guess.
by BoyzRback07 on Apr 9, 2008 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Charles has had
roughly 520 carries over his career and Jones has had roughly 380 carries over his career.
I understand where you are coming from, but the vast majority of his successful carries went to the outside. And in college you can beat defensive players with 4.47 speed to the edge and make big plays as he did.
In the NFL there are linebackers who are as fast as he is let alone safeties. And that is what worries me. Is that because most of his successful carries are to the outside and he is not very fast by NFL standards you will not see him get those types of stats with 4.47 speed.
With Charles you do get a blazing fast back (sub 4.4) who can beat anyone to the outside and a tough inside runner if Barber should ever go down. Here is a youtube of Charles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgOdD...
Notice him laying out A.J. Hawk on punt coverage in the beginning. That gives you a since of his toughness.
you boob video GM...is what you are....
Jones has run and been timed at and below 4.37 40 on SEVERAL occasions throughout his career at Arkansas on campus.. Sure Charles may be faster...He's a track star for pete's sake, and he's nearly ten pounds lighter, with a lean lanky frame...I like him alot, and would be my choice after Jones...but he also fumbles quite a bit.....He's run sprint races all his life...
Until you realize it's football speed, and not a sprinter in a stance, on a sprinters block, who has practiced jump starts for years is what it's all about...
Scouts can give two craps what Felix Jones ran at the combine...4.44-4.47..He had the fastest or one of the fastest 10 and 20 yard splits...excelled at the short shuttle, 3 cone drill, and receiving drills...
...big friggin deal...Marcun Monk ran a 4.44 on his pro day...Manningham went from 4.6 at the combine to 4.37 at his pro day......you really think scouts care what this guy did while running two sprints back on Feb. 20 ?...they know he's a star...and they already know he's faster than 4.47. Jones is 20 years old...Give him two years in the NFL strength and conditioning program and I can assure you he will gain 10 lbs of muscle,probably get faster, stronger, and more powerful...which would put him right there with LT as far as measurables go.....you want You Tube....go see Grizz's posting.....Felix Jones...winner of best highlight video of all time.....and no.....they aren't repeats of the same play.... rookie of the year '08
That's all i'm saying on this subject..
by BoyzRback07 on Apr 10, 2008 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions
before you throw out that garbage maybe
you should go watch some tape of Jones. He ran plenty between the tackles. He can run inside and outside and is dangerous on special teams which makes him so good. He is one of those players that may not have 4.3 speed, but plays like it on the field. Jones is the perfect complimentary RB to MB3.
Charles is not even going to be drafted in the first round.
by Cowboys81 on Apr 10, 2008 12:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Thomas
Not that I want him that bad, but assuming we cant trade, what better player is still on the board?
Jamaal Charles wouldnt break my heart here but Thomas is a better value.
by Carl Shelton (GloryDayz88) on Apr 9, 2008 8:03 PM CDT reply actions
I agree
The RB's are all so similar, at least one of them will be there in the 2nd.
Even though taking a WR in the 1st is risky, Thomas does seem to be the best value pick at #28.
This is going with the assumption that Dallas doesn't trade #28 for Roy Williams (which they very well could.)
by APerfectStar on Apr 9, 2008 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions
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