Cowboys Top 20 Players
Jerry Jones recently commented that he receives lists from outside GM's rating the top 20 players on our team.
He also said that Terence Newman is usually the top or top two rated cowboy on that list. It made me wonder. Who would I rate the top cowboy and, further more, the top 20 cowboys. I tried to think how each player compares to others around the league at the same position, but it's not an easy exercise. Here is my attempt at a top 20 list:
1. Terrell Owens
2. Jason Witten
3. Terence Newman
4. Tony Romo
5. Demarcus Ware
6. Greg Ellis
7. Flozell Adams
8. Leonard Davis
9. Marion Barber
10. Ken Hamlin
11. Brady James
12. Nick folk
13. Anthony Henry
14. Andre Gurode
15. Mat McBriar
16. Marc Colombo
17. Chris Canty
18. Jay Ratliff
19. Marcus Spears
20. Roy Williams
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Comments
Here's mine...
1. DeMarcus Ware
2. Terrence Newman
3. Terrell Owens
4. Jason Witten
5. Tony Romo
6. Flozell Adams
7. Marion Barber
8. Leonard Davis
9. Greg Ellis
10. Ken Hamlin
11. Bradie James
12. Anthony Henry
13. Andre Gurode
14. Jay Ratliff
15. Chris Canty
16. Mat McBriar
17. Marc Colombo
18. Roy Williams
19. Marcus Spears
20. Felix Jones
by xazinto on May 23, 2008 8:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I like
your list BigE. I definitely have to go with T.O. as number one, but it’s a VERY close second with T-New.
My popcorn's ready!
by CowboyBawler4 on May 23, 2008 9:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
For Newman to beat out Ware
he would have to cut out those occasional dropped ints. If Ware had more moves though there would be no question he is the best on the team, but that can definitely be learned.
1. Ware
2. Newman
3. Witten
4. Romo
5. Barber
6. T.O.
7. Leonard Davis
8. Ratliff
9. Flo
10. Ellis
11. Hamlin
12. McBriar
13. Bradie James
14. Chris Canty
15. Dre Gurode
16. Tank (came on at the end of last season and should be even better this year)
17. Anthony Spencer
18. Pat Watkins (special teamer extraordinaire who is an underrated safety)
19. Felix Jones
20. Nick Folk
by quincyyyyy on May 23, 2008 10:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Doh! I forgot Colombo here is the fixed rankings
1. Ware
2. Newman
3. Witten
4. Romo
5. Barber
6. T.O.
7. Leonard Davis
8. Ratliff
9. Flo
10. Ellis
11. Marc Colombo
12. Hamlin
13. McBriar
14. Bradie James
15. Chris Canty
16. Dre Gurode
17. Tank (came on at the end of last season and should be even better this year)
18. Anthony Spencer
19. Pat Watkins (special teamer extraordinaire who is an underrated safety)
20. Felix Jones
by quincyyyyy on May 23, 2008 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol...why even mention Felix Jones is your going to list him at #20 ?????
TO #6 ????
ahhh…forget it….”it’s only a game”
A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.
"If you don’t take him off the field as a coach, he will just about die out there," Jerry Jones said. "That impacted my decision. It’s a Michael Irvin-type work ethic. That’s what we are talking about with Felix Jones."
- Owner/G.M of the Dallas Cowboys , Jerry Jones
by BoyzRback on May 23, 2008 10:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
As much as I love T.O.
he drops the ball too much, but on most teams in this league he would be number 1. Too bad for him the Cowboys have a talented roster.
by quincyyyyy on May 23, 2008 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean....
On every team in the league outside of New England. Seriously…dude was All-Pro last year.
by GhettoBear04 on May 29, 2008 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude....Barber, who has yet started a regular season game is not rated over TO by anyone who's knows anything about football.
A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.
"If you don’t take him off the field as a coach, he will just about die out there," Jerry Jones said. "That impacted my decision. It’s a Michael Irvin-type work ethic. That’s what we are talking about with Felix Jones."
- Owner/G.M of the Dallas Cowboys , Jerry Jones
by BoyzRback on May 23, 2008 11:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well I just did
Barber carried this team on his back for an entire half against the Giants front 7 in a play off game.
by quincyyyyy on May 23, 2008 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
with basically no help from anyone
by quincyyyyy on May 23, 2008 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's the second half that matters guy......where was he ??
ahhh…forget it…...let me put it this way…go to the rankings from the previous posters….cuz they sure to have a better grasp of talent and importance to the team….
A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.
"If you don’t take him off the field as a coach, he will just about die out there," Jerry Jones said. "That impacted my decision. It’s a Michael Irvin-type work ethic. That’s what we are talking about with Felix Jones."
- Owner/G.M of the Dallas Cowboys , Jerry Jones
by BoyzRback on May 23, 2008 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the o-line fell apart in the second half
you can’t expect Barber to block for himself as well.
by quincyyyyy on May 23, 2008 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But it was all him in the first half?
C’mon. As much as I love him, he’s not better compared to other RB’s than TO is compared to other WR’s. Think about this, TO is paid as much as any receiver in the league (or was last year), but MBIII just got a contract that isn’t top 3.
by GhettoBear04 on May 29, 2008 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and..oh...btw ...You take TO off this team and we'd be lucky to reach .500 ....
A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.
"If you don’t take him off the field as a coach, he will just about die out there," Jerry Jones said. "That impacted my decision. It’s a Michael Irvin-type work ethic. That’s what we are talking about with Felix Jones."
- Owner/G.M of the Dallas Cowboys , Jerry Jones
by BoyzRback on May 23, 2008 11:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
just because we don't have a real starting receiver on this team besides him
secondly please use the reply button
by quincyyyyy on May 23, 2008 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
This team would still be good without TO, assuming we prepared for life without him. We’re not elite, but still in the playoff hunt I think.
by grapejoos on May 24, 2008 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are we prepared ???? I think not....
Seeing there is no evidence to assume Terry Glenn will be 100% come September’s Game 1, I’ll have to exclude him from this debate…..
Crayton n Stanback
Crayton n Hurd
Crayton n Austin
Not exactly scaring anyone…look for a Witten double team and 9 in the box blitzing on every play.
A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.
"If you don’t take him off the field as a coach, he will just about die out there," Jerry Jones said. "That impacted my decision. It’s a Michael Irvin-type work ethic. That’s what we are talking about with Felix Jones."
- Owner/G.M of the Dallas Cowboys , Jerry Jones
by BoyzRback on May 24, 2008 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant prepared in the sense of practicing and gameplanning without him
I don’t think that those WR combos scare anyone either, but the Saints had a very good passing attack the last two years without a roster that scared many. We have enough guys that can make big plays in the passing game (even if they are not WRs) that we would survive. Even without TO, I don’t think our WR corps is any worse than, say, Philly’s. Or NE’s two years ago. You can still move the ball through the air without a bonafide #1 WR, but it sure helps to have one of those guys.
Thankfully, we have TO this year, and next year if it’s not him, it’ll be another stud WR (or both!)
by grapejoos on May 25, 2008 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ehh...
We would become like Denver, Seattle, or Pittsburgh of a few years ago. Talented QB, good running game. It would be the difference between being a dark horse/long shot and being a favorite.
by GhettoBear04 on May 29, 2008 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
use the reply button ??? how do you think i'm replying ??
geeez…go to bed guy..
A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.
"If you don’t take him off the field as a coach, he will just about die out there," Jerry Jones said. "That impacted my decision. It’s a Michael Irvin-type work ethic. That’s what we are talking about with Felix Jones."
- Owner/G.M of the Dallas Cowboys , Jerry Jones
by BoyzRback on May 23, 2008 11:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
my top 5
1 TO
2 ROMO
3 WARE
4 NEWMAN
5 WITTEN
"Why everything that's supposed to be bad, Make me feel so good?"
by Wmillion on May 24, 2008 12:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
Can’t argue with any of those picks.
T-New, shutting down WR's for Dallas since 2003
by APerfectStar on May 24, 2008 1:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
after this season
I think Romo becomes one. I think he really cuts down on his turnovers, and leads us to the promised land.
"Why everything that's supposed to be bad, Make me feel so good?"
by Wmillion on May 24, 2008 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's alot of "thinking"
Let’s just hope his mind isn’t “thinking” about some media starved trailer trash has been.
A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.
"If you don’t take him off the field as a coach, he will just about die out there," Jerry Jones said. "That impacted my decision. It’s a Michael Irvin-type work ethic. That’s what we are talking about with Felix Jones."
- Owner/G.M of the Dallas Cowboys , Jerry Jones
by BoyzRback on May 24, 2008 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My top 10
Ware
Romo
TO
Witten
Newman
Davis
Adams
Barber
Hamlin
Ellis
by grapejoos on May 24, 2008 4:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i LIKE IT
Just can’t put a right guard over a left tackle, especially a guy who failed at LT
"Why everything that's supposed to be bad, Make me feel so good?"
by Wmillion on May 24, 2008 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Age and false starts
That’s why I put Bigg over Adams as it is, but point taken. I originally had Adams first but changed it when I thought about those false starts. These are our top 10 impact guys IMO, as in, guys we would miss the most with an average player at the same position (though maybe Romo should be #1 under that logic). I think Ware is the best LB in the entire NFL, and I’m not ready to say that about Romo, hence Ware going #1.
by grapejoos on May 25, 2008 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear you.
I do believe Romo is top 3. There are only 2 quarterbacks better then Romo in my opionon..
"Why everything that's supposed to be bad, Make me feel so good?"
by Wmillion on May 25, 2008 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1`That would be my top 10 as well Grapejoos
A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.
"If you don’t take him off the field as a coach, he will just about die out there," Jerry Jones said. "That impacted my decision. It’s a Michael Irvin-type work ethic. That’s what we are talking about with Felix Jones."
- Owner/G.M of the Dallas Cowboys , Jerry Jones
by BoyzRback on May 24, 2008 5:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmm, it depends
On whether we’re ranking actual player value or their contributions on the field.
If we’re speaking of their immediate ability on the field:
Romo
Ware
Newman
Owens
Witten
Ellis
Flo
Leo Davis
Hamlin
Gurode
by BudLight on May 24, 2008 10:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That's about right
I think TO and Newman are about a dead heat (though Newman will certainly be somewhat more replaceable this year than last), but that looks about right to me. The fact that there can be serious debate over a list of 10+ players (all pro bowlers) is pretty awesome.
by grapejoos on May 25, 2008 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We won without Newman!
We looked horrible without TO.
"Why everything that's supposed to be bad, Make me feel so good?"
by Wmillion on May 25, 2008 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can see your point
But think back to the quality of our pass defense without him. Compare, for instance, Plaxico’s performance against us in game 1 (no Newman) to his showing during the other two games.
As for the other games we played without him, we were fortunate to draw Miami, STL, and Chicago.
by BudLight on May 26, 2008 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK
But A.Henry drew plaxico the next games because of his size. Newman wasn’t reason plaxico didn’t kill us the 2nd and 3rd times we played.
"Why everything that's supposed to be bad, Make me feel so good?"
by Wmillion on May 26, 2008 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not Henry exclusively
They alternated depending on which side of the field Plaxico took.
In addition, don’t rule out that offenses may actually change their offensive gameplan to accommodate for the fact that one of their WRs is being neutralized.
by BudLight on May 28, 2008 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
RE:
Top 10
Romo
TO
Newman
Ellis
Davis
Ware
Witten
Felix
Barber
Flozell
by Longhorn on May 25, 2008 12:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
wow..
Ellis over Ware? Ware had more sacks?
Davis over Flo. Once again how do you rank a right guard over a left tacke,especially since leonard davis failed a lt already?
Felix jones has never played an NFL snap, he is rated higher barber?
"Why everything that's supposed to be bad, Make me feel so good?"
by Wmillion on May 25, 2008 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
re:
yes, Ellis is a better all around player, still. Look what Ware did without Ellis. Ellis has been rather beastly without Ware.
Yes. Davis is a beast.
Yes. And, so, why do you have to play an NFL snap to be better? You saying Dmac is not better than Justin Fargas? Adrian Peterson wasn’t better than Chester Taylor?
by Longhorn on May 25, 2008 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no way
There is no way Greg Ellis is a better all around player.. NO way.. Ware has to fight of double teams, Ellis benefits from all attention Ware attracts. There is a reason why Greg Ellis’s 1st double digit sacks season came with D. Ware on the other side. Plus DWAre doubled up greg ellis in tackles..
Davis wasn’t not a beast until he got on a team with 2 pro-bowlers already on the line. flozell has been holding down left tackle for 11 years, the most important postion on the line.
Can you really assume D-mac is better? Fargas started 7 games last year and rushed for 1k yards and 4.5 yds a carry.
AP was better and D-mac and Felix jones are no AP. You are saying felix jones is already at a pro bowl level? For every AP there are 2 Cedric Bensons..
Yes. And, so, why do you have to play an NFL snap to be better?
Are you serious with the number of busts in the NFL in the 1st round? Go look at the Top 10 players drafted in 2005. Then look at the RB’s, 3 backs in the top 5, and none of them are a better then MB3..
"Why everything that's supposed to be bad, Make me feel so good?"
by Wmillion on May 25, 2008 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
wow
there is so much wrong with that post, i don’t even know where to start. I’ll let you bask in what you wrote for a bit.
by Longhorn on May 25, 2008 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm
I made that much sense you can find a hole.. I love it..
"Why everything that's supposed to be bad, Make me feel so good?"
by Wmillion on May 25, 2008 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nah
so many holes that i don’t have the time to worry about the insignificance of that post.
by Longhorn on May 26, 2008 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You definitely don't have the time
Because he’s right. The fact that you rated Ellis of Ware proves my point for me.
by ChrisRichey on May 26, 2008 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nah
guess you can’t see what Ware did without Ellis. Pretty pathetic.
by Longhorn on May 28, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
In 3 games without Ellis (what a sample size!), Ware had 2 sacks and 1 stuff.
In 13 games with Ellis, Ware had 12 sacks and 8 stuffs (and 4 forced fumbles).
He was a little better with Ellis, and it always helps as a pass rusher when you have another pro bowl rusher on the other side.
My question for you, though, is how you think Ellis would do without Ware, if he is in fact superior. Ellis is a great spot rusher. Ware is a great every-down LB. Ware had 84 tackles in 16 games. Ellis had 31 in 13 games. I don’t see how you can conclude that Ellis is more valuable, though he was certainly a big lift to the defense, including Ware.
by grapejoos on May 28, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ware is better than Ellis
To try and justify otherwise is ridiculous.
Ellis is good, but Ware is great and still hasn’t reached his peak yet.
T-New, shutting down WR's for Dallas since 2003
by APerfectStar on May 27, 2008 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My top 20
Romo
T.O.
Ware
Newman
Witten
Barber
Ellis
Hamlin
Adams
Davis
Gurode
Canty
Ratliff
Thomas
James
McBriar
Folk
Crayton
Henry
Williams
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on May 26, 2008 8:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I forgot about Zach
If he’s healthy, wow.
It’s amazing to think our top 5 guys are probably all top 3 or 4 at their position in the league. I don’t think New England gets close to that.
by BigE on May 26, 2008 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No especially with no A.Samuel
Talent is not the issue with this team. That is why Wade is on the hot seat after 13 win season.
"Why everything that's supposed to be bad, Make me feel so good?"
by Wmillion on May 26, 2008 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My Opinion: the 20 Most Valuable
I think you have to look at this two ways:
If you define the most valuable guys on the Cowboys roster as the guys who will be the most important to the success of the franchise for not only next year, but also the next five, then here is my opinion, roughly in order:
1. Tony Romo
2. DeMarcus Ware
3. Terrell Owens
4. Terrance Newman
5. Jason Witten
6. Anthony Spencer
7. Flozell Adams
8. Mike Jenkins
9. Leonard Davis
10. Chris Canty
11. Andre Gurode
12. Ken Hamlin
13. Tank Johnson
14. Marc Columbo
15. Anthony Henry
16. Greg Ellis
17. Brady James
18. Felix Jones
19. Matt McBriar
20. Nick Folk
If value is defined as the guys most important to winning only next season, then the 20 guys would be, roughly in order as follows:
1. Tony Romo
2. DeMarcus Ware
3. Terrell Owens
4. Terrance Newman
5. Jason Witten
6. Greg Ellis
7. Flozell Adams
8. Anthony Henry
9. Leonard Davis
10. Chris Canty
11. Andre Gurode
12. Ken Hamlin
13. Tank Johnson
14. Marc Columbo
15. Anthony Henry
16. Anthony Spencer
17. Brady James
18. Zach Thomas
19. Matt McBriar
20. Nick Folk
by Cowboy Louie on May 27, 2008 7:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Marion Barber?
He doesn’t crack the top 20 in either category? I think he’s gotta be on both, especially given the new contract. Also, Tank over Ratliff? Interesting.
by grapejoos on May 27, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rats(liff)!!
How could I forget about Ratliff?! Yeah, he’s really important and would be top ten on both lists. And the sleeper could be Jason Hatcher. I’m hoping his play in minicamp and exhibition games forces Dallas to get him on the field.
Nah, I didn’t forget about Barber. My opinion (which is in a slim minority indeed) is that the Cowboy running backs are interchangeable parts because:
- The Cowboys are a passing team
- The NFL is a passing league
- The Cowboys use a running back-by-committee approach (which I think is a great approach)
Given those three arguments, I don’t think Barber or any other running back the Cowboys have on the roster is critical to the success of the team. Management obviously completely disagrees with my opinion based on the recent contract MB3 signed. In MB3’s case, I think he is a nice running back, but not an elite back and not an every down player in this system. Nothing against him personally – I really enjoy watching him run.
Felix Jones sneaks in on the five year list because I have heard that Dallas may be using him a bit like Marshall Faulk, where he splits wide or lines up in the slot. That type of back is much more valuable than a traditional garden-variety running back. But Felix Jones is simply a guess on my part. I don’t follow college football closely so I have never even seen him play a game. Same goes for Mike Jenkins.
by Cowboy Louie on May 27, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting theory on MB3, but consider this:
Even if you concede the idea that the Cowboys and the league are based on the pass, there are some items that point to how critical a back like MB3 is to our success.
Running the ball in the redzone, and being able to punch it in for TD’s is a big lift to an offense. Passing patterns are squeezed in the redzone, limiting the playbook and helping the defense a little. Also, bad things can happen on passing downs, and you just need one at the wrong time and you’re kicking a FG at best. A sack, a holding penalty to save the QB, a tipped ball that ends up with the defense, the QB just making a bonehead decision. Sure, some bad things can happen on run plays but outside of a fumble, they’re pretty safe. Passing plays by nature are a little more dicey than runs. If you can run in the redzone and score TD’s, advantage offense.
Moving the chains on 3rd and short is a big psychological weapon. It’s not always about how much you run, it’s about when and where you run, and how successfully. Nothing bums out a defense more than not stopping a third down, and if you can pick up the 2 or 3 yards on the ground, they feel helpless. This is even magnified when the offense is running out the clock when they’re ahead.
More abstractly, even passing offenses will need the threat of a running game. Sometimes you just can’t get the QB protected like you want and the only thing that might slow down that rush is an effective running game. You don’t have to control the game with the run, but you need to do it enough to make the defense think.
On these things alone I think MB3 is crucial to our success. Not every back scores TD’s at the pace MB3 does and there’s no denying he’ll get you the tough yards. Plus, he’s a pretty good receiver out of the backfield and can be a good blitz blocker. There’s a lot to like about his game.
by Dave Halprin on May 27, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
MB3 is a redzone scoring machine. That cannot be overstated. Not to mention his contribution between the 20’s and his catching ability and pass blocking ability. He’s as solid as they make ‘em.
T-New, shutting down WR's for Dallas since 2003
by APerfectStar on May 27, 2008 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also:
Look at the NYG and Philly defenses. The Giants specialty on D is rushing the passer and love getting into 3rd and long situations so that they can get all 3 of their pass-rushing DE’s on the field at the same time. The way to attack defenses that specialize in pass rushing is to have an effective running game. It helps combat their specialized pass rush lineup by running at smaller guys (with a physical RB) and by keeping them off the field all together (avoiding 3rd and longs).
Look at the lineup of the Philly D. Their best front 7 player is Trent Cole, who is solid in rush defense, but earns his rep as a pass rusher. Now look at their secondary. They have 3 pro-bowl caliber guys back there: Dawkins, Samuels, and Sheppard (plus Sheldon Brown isn’t bad either). Their secondary ranks among the best in the league. Their front 7 isn’t scary at all. The worst player in their secondary is their SS (Mikell).
So 2 out of the 3 teams the Cowboys play twice a year have defenses that are specialized to stop the passing game, albeit in completely different approaches. There may be divisions where having a good passing game gets you farther than a good running game (NFC South? AFC North?), but this ain’t it.
by GhettoBear04 on Jun 2, 2008 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting Opinion.....
That is an interesting opinion, but the statistics I’m looking at would imply that the pass defenses of Philly and the Giants are nothing special and that Dallas was every bit as successful against those teams as their other 2007 opponents. Consider:
During the 2007 regular season, the Cowboys averaged 256 yards passing and 2.25 passing TD’s per game. In the five games against the two division rival teams you believe specialize in pass defense, the Cowboys averaged 266 passing yards and 2.4 passing TD’s. I believe the numbers would have been considerable higher if TO didn’t miss the final Eagles game and play hurt in the playoff game.
For further proof, the pass defenses of our NFC East brethren were ranked as follows in 2007: Giants – 11th, Eagles – 18th, Washington – 16th.
This is a passing offense. The quarterback, #1 wide receiver and tight end are among the top three at their respective positions in the NFL. The offensive line is an outstanding pass blocking line. The Dallas offense does not let defenses dictate to them; on the contrary, it attacks them with the passing game regardless of where the defense strength lies. Barring injury, Dallas is going to successfully throw against every team.
The Cowboys need their running game to be a consistent credible threat. They do not need or want it to be the focus of the offense. There are many running backs that could provide a consistent, credible threat in the running-back-by-committee approach. Romo, Witten, TO, and the offensive line are critical to the success of the offense. #2 wide receiver, running back and fullback/h-back/#2 tight end are not. Marion Barber is a luxury – he is better than what Dallas needs at running back. That would be great if the NFL operated in a salary cap-free environment, but it does not. Dallas may have paid market value for Barber, but it overspent on the running back position. That money could have been better spent elsewhere.
by Cowboy Louie on Jun 2, 2008 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good post.
You are right in that we are a pass-first team with a excellent secondary component running game. But I think that the Cowboys’ versatility is one of their huge strengths; it’s part of the reason why their offense is better than the Seahawks or Saints (pass-happy offenses that lost their running games last year),
The Eagles. I think we can all agree that adding Samuels improves their secondary, especially considering it moves everyone else down a notch. They now have 3 good CB’s and a good FS in Dawkins. Add to that their blitz-heavy packages, and it’s easy to see that they are a team designed to stop the pass and should be better at it this year. This doesn’t mean we should abandon the pass, but I think it’s natural to assume that more run plays will be called that day. Especially when you consider that they have one playmaker (Trent Cole) in their front 7 and their SS isn’t fantastic either.
The Giants. They were a very different team between the first and last time that we played them. With the development of 3 good pass rushers plus good blitzing linebackers, they are a team that feasts off of 3rd and long. So obviously avoiding third and long is important and a strong running game is a way to avoid that. Additionally, in part because of how (overly) aggressive they can be and in part because of the smaller size of some of their pass rush guys (Osi, Tuck), it seems like they are team that can be run on by a team with a big offensive line. Which is exactly what we have and exactly what we did to them in the first half (2nd quarter) of the playoff game.
Again, I’m not saying that this is a run-based offense. Just that having a strong run game makes beating the other two most competitive teams in the division a lot easier. I agree that there are at least 5-10 other guys in the league right now that you could plug back there and still get the necessary production. While Barber got paid like a top 5-7 back just now, I don’t have a big problem with it because we had the space, I’m assuming this contract will look average in a year or two, and I’m really happy they didn’t pay him like a top 3 RB.
Lastly, be careful about looking at stats over a small sample size (2 or 3 games).
by GhettoBear04 on Jun 3, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That makes sense and all,
But to pay high end money to a guy that shares carries in a pass first offense seems real dumb to me. I just don’t get justifying giving LJ money to a guy that’s going to touch the ball 15 times a game on average.
by Mandmeisterx on Jun 3, 2008 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so who
should we have gotten instead?
we could just play our rookies… big risk and unknown, how solid are they in blitz pick-up and receiving, etc.
derek lassic or troy hambrick anyone? sherman williams? fine if you don’t think barber is worth the money, but i’m not of the opinion that you can just put anyone back there and we’ll be fine because we’re an elite passing team, or because our O-Line is that awesome, or because we have Houck, etc.
by Scoobay on Jun 3, 2008 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not implying that.
But I do think we overpaid the guy a ton. If you’re paying a guy that kind of money, shouldn’t he be carrying the full load? Not to mention that the worst case would be that you let him play this year out on his one year tender and see what the rookies can do for you, and what he can do for you as the starter. Then, come next offseason, or even in the middle of the season, you can act on what you know. That’s the path they took with Romo, and it seemed to work out just fine. Nothing wrong with knowing what you’ve got.
by Mandmeisterx on Jun 3, 2008 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We were paying BOTH Glenn and TO top $$$
You can make a case that MBIII should be a bigger priority than our #2 receiver, especially with Witten.
Sorry, but I don’t buy the “pass offense” primarily argument. Any team that becomes too one-dimensional will eventually fail. We need balance, and MBIII is the key to that balance.
Even with the AMAZING numbers we put up last year, we still spent considerable time establishing the run, and using the run to put teams away in the 4th quarter. To belittle this aspect of the offense is over-simplifying it.
Tar Heels football will surprise this year
by DalaiLuke on Jun 3, 2008 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Argument is not for one dimensional
Please don’t equate the argument presented of a passing offense as being or moving toward being one dimensional. In every post, we (at least I) have been careful to say that we need a consistent, credible running game.
The argument we are making is that we do not need Marion Barber and his high priced contract to accomplish that. Julius Jones and his 3.6 ypc and Marion Barber with his 4.8 ypc (team average = 4.2 ypc) can be relaced by a few guys who average around 4.2—4.4 ypc at a far cheaper price….and the offense will hum along just fine. For me, this is all about how to best spend the most limited resource a team has: the salary cap. Again, in an uncapped environment, I’m 100% for signing Barber.
by Cowboy Louie on Jun 4, 2008 7:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
This is the point I was trying to make without the effort of having to look up stats. HAHA I do think Barber is a great back, but I think our offense only requires good backs. That’s all.
by Mandmeisterx on Jun 4, 2008 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To clarify my reply...
You think we over-payed MBIII, I think he’s a greater priority than a #2 WR, and we are paying top $$$ for TWO receivers.
If the Cowboys want to be a truly dominant team, they need production from both their passing and their rushing game. Look no further than our last playoff game for proof.
Tar Heels football will surprise this year
by DalaiLuke on Jun 3, 2008 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The playoff game?
You mean the one where we finally let Barber carry the load singlehandedly, and he fizzled in the second half? That one?
by Mandmeisterx on Jun 4, 2008 7:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can't judge his ability to carry the ball
more than 20 times per game based on one game, because I think the playoff loss was the only time he carried more than 20 times this year. 27 carries , 129 yards against the super bowl champ. That should win the game 9 times out of 10.
You have to go back to 2005 to the other times he carries more than 20 times in a game. 22 rushes for 95 yards, 27 rushes for 127 yards.
He can carry the load. He’s 3 out of 3. The question is how many times can he do it in a year. If you can answer that then you should log off and play the stock market.
by BigE on Jun 4, 2008 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he won't be carrying the load....Felix Jones will be getting plenty of plays.,..
I see MBIII getting about 17-22 carries on average…
A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.
"If you don’t take him off the field as a coach, he will just about die out there," Jerry Jones said. "That impacted my decision. It’s a Michael Irvin-type work ethic. That’s what we are talking about with Felix Jones."
- Owner/G.M of the Dallas Cowboys , Jerry Jones
by BoyzRback on Jun 4, 2008 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard this stat on the radio so I can't provide a link
but nearly two thirds of our scoring drives had MB3 in the game. He is very critical to our success. Make no mistake about that.
by quincyyyyy on May 27, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Statistics
Statistics can be presented and interpreted to back just about any opinion. I bet that Kyle Kosier was in the game on over 95% of our scoring drives. Is he is very critical to our success? I believe you are mixing association with causation, but you (and most others) believe that Barber was the cause of the success. I believe Romo, TO and Witten were the primary causes of the success, along with outstanding offensive line play. If anything, I think the stat you reference makes a stronger case against Julius Jones than for Marion Barber.
When I assign a subjective Value to a player, I ask myself the following:
How important is the position this player plays?
How easily could this player be replaced by someone who will put up similar numbers and enable the team to enjoy similar success?
It is my contention that quite a few positions are more important than running back on the 2008 Cowboys. I also believe that there are many combinations of running backs that Dallas could use in 2008 and achieve similar success to the Marion Barber/Felix Jones combination. In fact, it is quite possible that the Choice/Jones combo would be close to the Barber/Jones combo. The biggest negative there is that rookie running backs usually don’t pick up the blitz too well.
The reverse explains why I assign a kicker and a punter a higher value than a pro bowl running back. I think Nick Folk and Matt McBriar are both among the very best – top three – at their respective positions in the NFL. And in the case of kicker, many games are won or lost on his leg. In both cases, they would be very hard to replace with another guy who would put up similar numbers and would allow Dallas to enjoy a similar level of success.
I think we can all agree on this: It would suck to go through this exercise for the 2000-2004 versions of the Dallas Cowboys!
by Cowboy Louie on May 27, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Point is he split carries nearly down the middle with JuJo
Kosier was in on almost every offensive snap. So you have a point of comparison with MB3.
Secondly, you act like it is so easy to replace 4.8 ypc. If you look at all backs with over 150 carries (MB3 had 204), only three backs did better (Fred Taylor, A.D., and Jacobs) and Brian Westbrook tied him. MB3 is not as easily replaced as you think he is.
by quincyyyyy on May 27, 2008 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Louie, I get your rationale for leaving MB3 off your list. I am of the opinion that he’s a little underrated by Cowboys fans because of splitting time, and it’s not a coincidence in my mind that he was in for most of the TDs (of course, he was in for more red zone plays overall). Still, MB3 is very effective and gets hard yards. We all lived through JuJo, not every back can do that, and JuJo still got signed to start/split time for Seattle, a playoff team.
All I know is that when I talk to fans of other teams, they all covet Barber (and Ware) above all other Cowboys. I can understand why.
by grapejoos on May 27, 2008 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coveting Barber
Many NFL fans do indeed covet Barber. His rough and tumble style, coupled with his catchy nickname and dreadlocks are tailor-made for ESPN highlights almost every week. This makes him a very popular player among the masses, and thus overrated a bit.
However, most fans I interact with covet Romo, TO, Witten and Ware above all other Cowboys. Newman never seems to get the credit he deserves outside of Cowboy nation. Barber? They like him but would take quite a few other Cowboy players for their beloved Packers before they would take Barber. Then again, their opinions on Dallas players are clouded to a considerable extent by my views, which they are sick and tired of hearing.
Regarding your 4.8ypc average – I guess this is where my opinion on the importance of the running back position comes in. I really don’t care if my running back averages 4.2, 4.5 or 4.8 ypc, as long as they are a legitimate threat. With the o-line and skill players in the passing game that Dallas has, I simply do not think the offense would suffer much at all if the running backs averaged a bit over 4 ypc. My position isn’t an indictment of Barber. It is an expression of the importance (or lack thereof) I place on the running back position.
Well, I guess the point is moot since MB3 signed the big contract. He is here for the next 4+ years and nobody will be cheering harder for him to succeed than me.
by Cowboy Louie on May 27, 2008 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I kind of care if my back averages 4.8 as oppose to 4.2
and I think most fans do as well.
by quincyyyyy on May 27, 2008 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus you ignore the fact that safeties and linebackers
are genuinely scared of the Barbarian, you can’t say that about most backs in the NFL. Barber gives our offense the kind of dimension most backs wouldn’t be able to give us.
by quincyyyyy on May 27, 2008 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
YPC
The thing no one seems to want to acknowledge about Barber’s high YPC is the fact that most of his yards came in the 4th quarter against a worn down defense, with the o-line mowing people down. Aside from the playoff game, how many times was Barber dominant in the first half of a game? Not any that I can think of.
by Mandmeisterx on May 27, 2008 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How often was Barber given free reign in the first half
besides the playoff game?
Couldn’t you also make the argument that the o-line gets tired as the game wears on, and unlike the d-line the o-line doesn’t get rotated.
by quincyyyyy on May 27, 2008 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear you, to an extent
I think I had MB3 8th in my pick of our top 10. But I will say this: I think it’s foolish to assume Barber’s not a feature-level back, which I think some Cowboy fans do because he hasn’t been one (yet), and I think there is an enormous difference between 4.2 YPC and 4.8 YPC. Nothing hurts an offense more than running on first down and getting nothing, which we saw often with JJ. If you pick up just 2 or 3 yards on first down, the whole series is a different story.
That said, I still think it’s justifiable to not have MB3 in one’s top 20. I just think it takes the replaceable RB philosophy to an untenable extreme.
by grapejoos on May 27, 2008 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just as a measuring stick...
...not saying these guys are the gurus of NFL player evaluation, but Scouts, Inc (they work under/for/somehow for ESPN.com) rated the top 64 RBs in the league. MBIII was ranked 8th (behind LT, AD, S-Jax, B-West, LJ, Addai and Gore).
It’s funny to me that they rank Maroney (1st Rd-28th?) 18th overall, while MBIII is ranked 8th and was a 4th round pick. Weird how these things work out, eh?
by GhettoBear04 on Jun 4, 2008 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, Romo is a top 5 QB
and he wasn’t even drafted and QBs drafted in the first rd that year aren’t even in the league anymore.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jun 4, 2008 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also weird that they shared
the backfield at Minnesota. Back then Maroney was slightly better because of his speed. I think Maroney has had injury problems that have kept him off the field.
by BigE on Jun 5, 2008 7:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My top 10
“Best” is obviously ridiculously subjective … If we’re going by Most Valuable, in the sense that our team would be the worst if you took _ off of it, I think Romo has to top the list. I’m gonna go more on overall talent, and relative talent to others at their position around the league. Position importance also plays a factor, so McBriar doesn’t qualify for the top 10.
1. T.O.
2. Demarcus
3. Witten
4. Romo
5. Newman
6. Ellis
7. False Start Adams
8. Leonard Davis
9. MB3
10. Gurode
by MeanMr.Mustard on May 27, 2008 12:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
In my Opionon
Romo goes down we are done deal.. I think we can manage if anyone else were to go down..
So if we are going with MVP then it is Romo.
"Why everything that's supposed to be bad, Make me feel so good?"
by Wmillion on May 27, 2008 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about Richard Bartel!?
He is suppose to be the next Romo. Jeesh you don’t know anything! ;)
by quincyyyyy on May 27, 2008 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't tell
If you were serious about your last comments are not??
What about Richard Bartel!?
He is suppose to be the next Romo. Jeesh you don’t know anything! ;)
"Why everything that's supposed to be bad, Make me feel so good?"
by Wmillion on May 27, 2008 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am with you..
"Why everything that's supposed to be bad, Make me feel so good?"
by Wmillion on May 27, 2008 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
THE Top 5
1. Ware
2. TO
3. Witten
4. Newman
5. Romo
That #38 sure can hit!
by Aaron Novinger on May 28, 2008 1:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
My top 5 - based on comparison to others in similar positions ...
1. Ware (#1)
2. Romo (#3)
3. Witten (#3)
4. Newman (#4)
5. TO (#5)
TO drops too many passes to be considered in the top receivers in the game…
what is amazing about the Cowboys is NOT ONLY do we have all these guys at key positions ranking high in the entire NFL… but that we have SO MANY other guys that are top 10… with thirteen Pro-bowlers and depth across the board, we are the team to beat in the NFC.
Throw in Garrett and Wade scheming, and this team, in my eyes, is a disappointment with anything short of a SB appearance. An injury to Romo or Flozell are the only two positions that potentially could hinder us… I believe in this WR crew, especially with Romo and the rest of the O / Defense.
Tar Heels football will surprise this year
by DalaiLuke on May 28, 2008 11:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Really?
You think this team is going to go anywhere if TO goes down? I can see us getting by without Glenn again, but without Owens, this offense is purely anemic.
by Mandmeisterx on May 28, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
witten #3
behind Gates and Gonzalez? i can see how many would rank thus though i disagree.
Would have to put Witten at #1 based on overall ability blocking and receiving. I really think he stepped it up this past year which is hard to do when you already play at a high level.
Romo behind Brady and Manning – no problem there.
Newman behind Champ, Asomugha, and Samuel? or Trufant? not sure who your’e thinking there.
TO behind Moss, and who else? ocho cinco, fitzgerald? Not sure i can put TO lower than #2 or #3. highest YPC among top 20 receivers, 15 TD’s this past year 2nd to Moss.
by Scoobay on May 28, 2008 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
TO is #2
Even with his drops, TO is the 2nd best WR in the league, in my opinion. None of the other contenders for that title have shown the HOF consistency that TO has.
I’d put Witten at #1 as well, but really the important point for me is that he is in that top tier with Gates and Gonzo.
I think this team can survive if TO might go down. Our offense would take a big hit, but we’d still have a good running game and a (hopefully) great defense.
If TO went down, our WR corps would still be as good as Philly’s, IMO (depending on Jackson’s impact). That’s not a ringing endorsement, but we could learn to survive without him. But make no mistake, a season-ending injury to TO would be 2nd only to Romo on the disaster scale.
by grapejoos on May 28, 2008 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I have Witten and Gates equal.. Gonzo age drops him back a bit even though he is coming off another killer sesaon.
TO’s 2, you don’t find a guy as consitent as him year end and year out.. Chad may have more yards, but TO hits pay dirt a lot more often. He is more explosive then fitzs..
The overwhelming sentiment is we are doomed if TO goes down. I think we need 2 WR’s to step up and be ready to make plays this season. I think we can count Hurd to make plays. We need Austin or Stanback to become a dynamic, game changing WR.
"Why everything that's supposed to be bad, Make me feel so good?"
by Wmillion on May 29, 2008 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
T.O., Newman and Witten are in their prime.
Romo isn’t quite there yet, even though he is awesome and top 5, maybe top 3, in the league.
It can be argued that T.O. and Witten are the absolute best at their postions in the league.
Ware is my #1, too.
That #38 sure can hit!
by Aaron Novinger on May 30, 2008 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too lazy for 20, heres Top 5
1. Jason Witten
2. Demarcus Ware
3. Terence Newman
4. Tony Romo
5. Terrell Owens
by Romo9 on May 28, 2008 7:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Those certainly seem to be the consensus top 5
I’m sure Witten is flattered :)
by grapejoos on May 28, 2008 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is this Tony, himself???
Hookin’ it up for your best bud, huh?
That #38 sure can hit!
by Aaron Novinger on May 30, 2008 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
top 10
1 Romo
2 Witten
3 Ware
4 TO
5 TNew
6 Flo
7 Hamlin
8 MB3
9 Ellis
10 Folk
This is tough, when most or all are among the top 5 in the league, and obviously we can argue all over, but…
Romo, even though he hasn’t won the ring (or even one playoff) yet I think he is an elite QB and is the heart of the team.
Witten because he is the favorite target and is versatile to help out in multiple ways. Arguable best in his position in the league.
Ware also arguably best in his position in the league.
MB3 is down a bit because while he’s awesome, he hasn’t yet carried the starter responsbility and really revealed his potential.
I have to include Folk in there, too, because we tend to forget about kickers but he’s a gem and another real fortunate strength of this team.
obviously not including new players because I’m basing it somewhat on last year and somewhat on potential…
by scottmaui on May 28, 2008 11:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Top Five
Flozell Adams
Leonard Davis
Andre Gurode
Demarcus Ware
Greg Ellis
"If you're lucky enough to find a guy with a lot of head and a lot of heart, he's never going to come off the field second." --Vince Lombardi
by iworkedwithlandry on May 29, 2008 2:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
any top 5 list without Romo and T.O.
isn’t worth consideration. Its like not listing Brady and Moss as the top Pats players.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on May 29, 2008 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry... can't win without a O-line and a pass rush.
"If you're lucky enough to find a guy with a lot of head and a lot of heart, he's never going to come off the field second." --Vince Lombardi
by iworkedwithlandry on May 30, 2008 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and you can't win without
scoring points. The NFL is all about the QB in this day and age, the last 5 SB Champs have proven that.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on May 30, 2008 8:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right, but...
This line is not much different (except Bigg) than two years ago when Drew Bledsoe was taking sacks left and right. Romo’s mobility made this line look better.
by BigE on May 30, 2008 8:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is ridiculous...
First, this O-Line looked horrible when Bledsoe was taking snaps.
Second, this O-Line looked horrible in this year’s playoff game.
Third, Davis is one year away from rumors of being a bust.
If you want to consider the O-Line as a unit, you could make a case for them to be in the top 5, but any top 5 without Romo is just silly.
Tar Heels football will surprise this year
by DalaiLuke on May 30, 2008 8:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Top 7 compared to others at their position
1. TO (#2)
2. Witten (#2/#3)
3. Ware (#2/#3)
4. Romo (#3-5)
5. Flozell (#5-7)
6. Newman (#7-10)
7. MBIII (#7-10)
As an aside….this game is SOOO MUCH more fun now than it was 3-4 years ago. This doesn’t even include Zach Thomas or PacMan Jones!
by GhettoBear04 on May 29, 2008 6:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
nice
I don’t agree with the order, but the overall ranks are close.
I have Ware Higher, Witten 1a or 1b with Gates, Newman Top 5
The Barbarian is though to rank for me. Not many running backs get to run behind 3 pro-bowlers. I think Colombo is a Tier 2 RT. Don’t get me wrong MB3 is money, but fortunate at the same time.
"Why everything that's supposed to be bad, Make me feel so good?"
by Wmillion on May 29, 2008 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you would please
Name me six CB’s that are better than T New. I think you’ll have a hard time coming up with three.
by Mandmeisterx on May 30, 2008 7:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll Try
I agree Newman is great Corner, but I wanted to give it a shot.
List in no particular order
C. Bailey-Best Corner in the Game
M. Trufant-Equal Picks, More tackles.. Toss up
Asomugha, Nnamdi-8 picks 2 years ago, going in 4th year F/T starter. He is just younger
D. Hall-More Picks in Less years
A. Samuel-More Picks in Less years
N. Clement-More picks in more years of service, but is younger. Great Run Defender.
Cromartie, Antonio-Not better yet, but this kid is special, 10 picks last year.
"Why everything that's supposed to be bad, Make me feel so good?"
by Wmillion on May 30, 2008 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bailey and Asomugha you have an argument
the rest are not better than Newman on their best day and Newman’s worst.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on May 30, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd add Cromartie
That guy had a hell of a season last year. Samuel has had some big picks too.
INTs aren’t Newman’s thing, shutting guys down is. I think Trufant is probably the most similar as a player.
Newman is way better than Hall.
by grapejoos on May 30, 2008 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Deangelo Hall?!
I think I’m going to be sick. One of the most overrated players in the league. The guy’s nickname should be Toast. Are you serious?
With Nate Clements you are also really pushing it.
by quincyyyyy on May 30, 2008 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, here goes:
Guys definitely better:
Champ Bailey
Antonio Cromartie
Nnamdi Asomugha
Rashean Mathis
Antoine Winfield
Guys probably better:
Marcus Trufant
Asante Samuels
Chris McAlister
Guys in the same group as Newman (or about to be):
Darelle Revis (about to be quite good)
Nate Clements (unsure about this…liked him better in Buffalo)
Newman
Probably more…but I’m tired of investigating. I’m not saying every one of those guys is much better than Newman. Honestly, groups 2 and 3 probably should be one group. But I don’t think Newman is a top 5 CB right now. I would feel a lot better about Newman if he had accomplished what he had and was now 28.
by GhettoBear04 on Jun 2, 2008 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Newman belongs in your 1st group
and Mathis and Winfiled definitely doesn’t
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jun 2, 2008 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I put Newman higher just because
Jerry said some GM’s had him as one of our top 2 guys. Now that may have been at the beginning of last year.
by BigE on May 30, 2008 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it must have been.
There’s too much talent on this team now. The emergence of Romo, Witten, and Ware plus TO. This is a stacked team.
by GhettoBear04 on Jun 2, 2008 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a hard time putting TO at the top of any list...
He is a monster athlete, but has had the dropsies his entire career. Cost us a game against the skins last year. For this reason only, I would rank him more like 3-5. I probably went too low saying #5.
Who is better than Ware at OLB?
T-New is top 5, I tried to be conservative and put him at #4, but you can make a case he is higher.
If Flozell gets rid of the 2-a-game penalties, maybe he would get a higher ranking.
And I simply cannot wait to see MBIII and Felix prove they’re top 5 talent, but until there’s proof, we’re just hopeful fans.
Tar Heels football will surprise this year
by DalaiLuke on May 30, 2008 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just wait til you see Felix Jones behind our line...."flash" "boom" there he goes....
80 yards and a cloud of dust. TD
A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.
"If you don’t take him off the field as a coach, he will just about die out there," Jerry Jones said. "That impacted my decision. It’s a Michael Irvin-type work ethic. That’s what we are talking about with Felix Jones."
- Owner/G.M of the Dallas Cowboys , Jerry Jones
by BoyzRback on May 30, 2008 4:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
My Top 5
1. Ware: No OLB is better
2. Romo
3. TO: Best WR in the league; Moss is a quitter TO always plays his heart out in between the white lines
4. Witten: Id say best TE but he had that one off year with only 1TD.
5 Folk: Come on was it 06 or 05 maybe both where we lost like 3 games becuase of missed FGs. The best part is he’s a rookie and hear to stay!
What the French?! Toast!
by thebigham on Jun 1, 2008 10:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm.
I do think TO and Moss should be ranked equally. They are the best WR’s of the past 5 years. Ware and Merriman are also equal in my book. Witten had a great year last year, he had less TD’s just because he was literally triple covered sometimes in the red zone. He did a fantastic job at converting 3rd and long and run blocking. Gates is the only TE who I think will be definetly better over the next 3 years. Dallas Clark and Tony Gonzalez and Witten are all in the same group….which is a pretty good group to be in. Folk is hurt by his short kick-offs.
by GhettoBear04 on Jun 2, 2008 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
...
TO is better than Moss in every way shape or form. Ware is better then Merrimen in every way shape or form for the same reasons TO is better than Moss…. more versatile more of a complete player. Not one dimensional. Folk isnt hurt by anything in my “book” haha He made a game winning FG from 53yds twice. Name the last cowboy FG kicker you felt confident in doing that. It changes games when you trust your kicker. Im not folking around Folk is a great luxary to have
What the French?! Toast!
by thebigham on Jun 3, 2008 7:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Kool-Aid.
Moss is faster. Merriman and Ware are virtually equals, both incredible players. Folk is a really good field goal kicker, but he has to be accurate for more than one year and has to get more distance on his kickoffs. There was some reports that said he was told not to kick it as far as he could because the coverage team didn’t have enough speed…whatever it was, hopefully it gets corrected.
by GhettoBear04 on Jun 3, 2008 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed with you on Moss
It’s hard to argue TO is better than Moss, though I do think he’s a somewhat more versatile player. If not for his dropsies I might agree, but Moss is probably the best WR since Rice, he set the single-season TD record last year, and is younger than TO. Still, TO is an all-time great WR and a very solid #2 in the league.
Ware is better that Merriman because of his versatility. In addition to not being a product of steroids, Ware makes plays all over the field. Merriman is a great pass rusher and a big hitter. Of course he did get laid on his ass by Maurice Jones-Drew.
Folk was as good a rookie kicker you could ask for last year. I’ve never had more faith in a Cowboys kicker, I think. That said, he does need to improve his kickoff distance (since McBriar can’t do it), but on FGs he’s golden as is.
by grapejoos on Jun 3, 2008 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cowboys Top 10 from Madden
Found this listing of Madden ratings at DMN.com
TO and Ware tied for #1. O-Line higher than I thought, Newman lower. Say what you want of the list but I’m sure they spent much time and money developing it.
WR Owens 98
OLB Ware 98
TE Witten 97
RG Davis 97
LT Adams 96
CB Newman 95
ILB Thomas 94
QB Romo 94
C Gurode 94
RB Barber 93
by BigE on Jun 3, 2008 7:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
They do.
I saw an interview somewhere with one of the head guys of development. Apparently they get a group of people in the room and debate it for a while. Last year’s big debate was whether to rank Manning and Brady at the same level or to rate Manning higher. They rated them equal (which is impressive considering Manning was just coming off his superbowl) and that turned out really well for them. I’m trying to remember where I saw this interview…I think it was either a Bill Simmons podcast or from the Football Outsiders 2007 Prospectus. I can’t find it on their website.
I think the most surprising one to me is Zach Thomas. I thought he would get dinged a bit more for age and health reasons. I also think Romo deserves to be a 95 or so…but I understand the logic of wanting him to do it for more than a year and a half.
by GhettoBear04 on Jun 4, 2008 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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