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Why rookies need a salary cap

When your legacy is on the line at the beginning of your NFL career, the last thing you need to be worried about is starting. Or for that matter, making a significant contribution. Lets go back the presalary cap days when it was the exception rather then the rule that a rookie quarterback would be expected to start. Now it seems to be the rule.

 

Rookies need to understand that accepting a cap similar to the NBA actually works in their favor. If they are not as pressured to come in before they are ready, they can take the time to learn the system and develop physically in order to compete on this level. It is when guys like Brady and Romo have the chance sit back and learn is when you start to see talent developed properly.

 

Perhaps some of those first round busts would not have been by taking the pressure off and easing them into the system. In todays would of fantastic rookie salaries, no team can afford to live by the Landry 3-year rule. Ask some 1st round bust if they would rather have the salary they got when drafted or take less and have the ability to sign an even richer contract sooner.

 

Lets take a success like Demarcus Ware as the other side of the coin. Under a rookie cap scenario he would still be a millionaire for being drafted 11th overall, but he would have had the opportunity to sign a new deal last year that would have dwarfed the deal he signed as a rookie. He would have resigned last year for Dwight Freeney money.

Bottom line is it’s a win win situation for everyone by limiting rookie salaries.

Another user-created commentary provided by a BTB reader.

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Makes sense to me

But, the other side of the coin from the rookie’s perspective is that right now, they get millions even if they are a bust as a reward for their collegiate success/talent.

Good thing incoming rookies don’t get a vote when this thing gets renegotiated. An NBA-style cap would be a great idea, though I think it will make the veteran FA contracts even more absurd. Still, better to be absurd in favor of players that have actually proven something.

by grapejoos on Jun 29, 2008 4:25 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

An NBA style cap

I fine with me. There are allowances to exceed the salary cap to sign our own players at market value.

by Impatient on Jun 29, 2008 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very true

Makes sense. Seriously how many rookies perform within 1st 3 years?

"Why everything that's supposed to be bad, Make me feel so good?"

by Wmillion on Jun 29, 2008 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's another great point

most of the guys who end up meeting their potential don’t in the early yeas when they get the money.

I listened to Gene Upskirt talk about it and he sounded like he was digging in over this. What a moron. Any real union would have taken care of its veterans/senior members over new guys long ago.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jul 1, 2008 5:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Upshaw

I didn’t get that stance either. He’s representing the veteran players more so than incoming rookies. Why he would take a hard line stance on a rookie cap, when it would mean more money available to proven vets, seems to go against common sense. Makes you wonder if he’s that stupid, or if he’s just trying to make himself look like a hero to the rookie and to heck with the vet (the guys that won’t be players in 5 years). If he wants to keep his job, he better rethink that approach.

T-New, shutting down WR's for Dallas since 2003

by APerfectStar on Jul 2, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd go with

hero. He sounded pretty strident the other day. It’s posturing.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jul 2, 2008 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think they badly need to do this.

FIrst, teams now desperately try to move out of the early draft picks because of what it’ll cost them to sign the top 10. Second, no matter what the NFLPA says, it’s a negative for veterans. They lose some amount of what’s available because of the crazy rookie salaries. Finally, it’s simply beyond bizarre. Nowhere else in Americs – whether unionized or not – does a new guy get paid as much or more than other more experienced workers. Unions wouldn’t allow it and other employers wouldn’t even think about it. New employees come in cheap and work their way up the pay scale. Everywhere but professional football. In every other way the NFL is a model of you get what you earn except here.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 29, 2008 4:36 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

This is what I've been saying this for years

that the NFL needs to adopt the NBA system of slotting draft picks with dollar amounts.

Vernon Davis, a tightend who was drafted sixth overall in the first round by the 49er's will make more quaranteed money than Jason Witten who signed a new deal last year. That to me is ridiculous, I'm not taking anything away from Davis, he has alot of talent, he's young and still developing, but right now Jason witten is a far better player and worth more to the cowboys than Davis is to the 49er's, but because there isn't a slotted draft system in place for contracts, Davis, an unproven player gets signed to a ridiculous guaranteed money contract only because of where he was selected in the first round.

I’m sure the players association could be enticed into this slotting system by changing the way money is being payed to these players by just shortening the contracts. Usually draft picks are signed to deals that are spread out over six and seven year deals, but if the years was shortened to four or five year deals before they hit free agency, the players association would rather have their players having a chance to hit free agency earlier than holding on to the way the draft is being run now with no slotting and where veterans are being cut every year for unproven highly paid young highly drafted players.

Sometihng else I’d like to see the league adopt is if a player has ten years of service with one club or in the league, then his salary becomes exempt from the salary cap of that club. This could help veterans finish their careers with the team they started out with and not end up being cut because of money/cap reasons and resigned by teams at a veteran base salary..

by Deke on Jun 30, 2008 11:33 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

As an example why the NF needs to change their draft system

Vernon Davis, a tightend was drafted sixth overall in the first round by the 49er’s, because there isn’t a slotted money draft system as in the NBA, Vernon Davis signed a deal that will pay him more quaranteed money that Jason Witten. I’m not taking anything away from Davis, he has alot of upside but is still developing, but for Davis to make more quaranteed money than Jason Witten, a proven pro-bowl player who signed a new deal last year, is just ridiculous to me!!

by Deke on Jun 30, 2008 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

On all points. It would have been nice to see guys like Emmitt and Larry Allen have a chance to finish their careers in Dallas.

by Impatient on Jun 30, 2008 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Our own Leonard Davis was considered a bust until he got to Dallas.

"Why everything that's supposed to be bad, Make me feel so good?"

by Wmillion on Jun 30, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or Jake Long

making more money than Tom Brady…

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jul 1, 2008 4:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

or the second overall

pick Matt Ryan making more then Jake Long and Tom Brady

by Impatient on Jul 1, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

krazy

They are being paid better then futer Hall of Famer’s. I am 97% sure he doesn’t sniff the pro-bowl in the 1st 3 years.

"Why everything that's supposed to be bad, Make me feel so good?"

by Wmillion on Jul 1, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So are you ummmm

calling him a “Long Shot”?

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jul 1, 2008 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes sir

They have a good WR, and Good Rb, that line is very suspect, and I personally don’t think he is that good.

Good luck paying him 70 million.. KRAZY.

"Why everything that's supposed to be bad, Make me feel so good?"

by Wmillion on Jul 2, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

WRITING

As I am writing my post, I start to think would ATL been better off if they would have paid Ryan 2 million a year, and signed some experienced O-Lineman with the money they spent on him-I think so! I know Ryan wouldn’t be forced to start until he was ready..

Someone on Sirius made a great point. They said Cedric Benson would still be on the bench in Chicago if he wouldn’t been forced in to duty because they had so much money invested in him, Thomas Jones would still be the starter.

"Why everything that's supposed to be bad, Make me feel so good?"

by Wmillion on Jul 2, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You just named 2 of the worst run franchises

ATL and CHI, they pick the wrong players, then let go of good players or get into well publicized contract disputes.

No question Thomas Jones was the better RB, but his days were numbered as soon as they picked Benson. Now they don’t have either, plus they have the same instability at QB.

ATL over paid for Ryan, and like you said, neglected the O-line. The sad thing is, even if Ryan is good, you know he’s going to be facing constant pressure. It wouldn’t surprise me if he comes close to breaking Carr’s record for getting planted in the turf. Then we’ll all get to see Arthur Blank pushing Ryan around on the sidelines in a wheelchair.

T-New, shutting down WR's for Dallas since 2003

by APerfectStar on Jul 2, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Another angle

All good points, but doesnt eliminating the big rookie actually take away a barganing tool from the vets. I think it is a good thing when say Jamaal Brown can go to the bargaining table when his contract expires and say “look at all this money Jake Long is getting, you gotta put me in that neighborhood.” Maybe thats not the best example but you get the point.

Another thing to consider is, who is to say that the teams will spend the extra money on veterans. You know how the game works. If you are a high pick you get paid good for your first 4-5 years, you cash in big one time when that expires, then when that contract is up you are 31-32 years old and teams are leery of you. The best of the best players may get one more big 3 year deal but thats it. (Unless you are T.O. and your owner wants to win today.

I dont know why the veterans are worried. Jake Long maybe shouldnt make more than Walter Jones, but he should make more than Luke Pettigout.

If you want to get paid, all you gotta do is ball. Are there any true stars who arent gettin paid?

by Carl Shelton (GloryDayz88) on Jul 2, 2008 6:06 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

No but

there are nono-stars getting paid (eg Jamarcus Russell). That’s the tough pill. None of these new guys are stars. They’re just potential, possible, future star-wannabes.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jul 2, 2008 6:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting point

About the use of ginormis rookie contracts as a bargaining chip. But there is a salary floor also. The owners would still have to pay the same amount in salary, just redistributed more towards proven players.

If you look at the team as a product, then blowing a huge investment on a top 10 player who never lives up to his potential while letting go the older, proven vets just serves to weaken the team as a whole. If you look at the teams in the top of the draft order the past few years, it’s usually the same teams year after year (OAK, DET, ATL, SF, MIA,etc.) Once the team makes a couple bad picks, they are stuck in the cycle for years.

T-New, shutting down WR's for Dallas since 2003

by APerfectStar on Jul 2, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Vets would be paid more ....
who is to say that the teams will spend the extra money on veterans

One good thing about the salary cap: There is also a minimum cap as well….....this years salary cap was 116 million…..but ALL teams had to pay a minimum amount of 102 million…...

If you put restrictions and rookie pay scales into place, the vets would be rewarded handsomely, even be able to hold onto some the older star vets that much longer.

If a team like the Cowboys drafts excellent players, (which they have over the past few years) and are here long term, the team success would span many years, as we would never be in jeapordy of losing any prime time players, as we’d always have the cap space to sustain our core stars….......

IF a rookie scale is not implemented at this next contract negotiation, things will truely get out of control with these absurd rookie contracts….

ALL Rookies should be signed to deals of 3 years or less, while giving the team an option for a forth, or making the rookie a RFA after year 3…..either he has upside or has already progressed enough for a new extention, or you cut him loose after year 3 or 4…......IT’S PLAIN AND SIMPLE….

Gene Up-shaw has overstayed his welcome, and I do not feel he actually speaks for the volume of players in the league…I see him being replaced before next contract talks…..

A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.

"If you don’t take him off the field as a coach, he will just about die out there," Jerry Jones said. "That impacted my decision. It’s a Michael Irvin-type work ethic. That’s what we are talking about with Felix Jones."
- Owner/G.M of the Dallas Cowboys , Jerry Jones

by BoyzRback on Jul 4, 2008 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

NBA model

Use the NBA model and keep it moving. You see all the extensions and FA signings, the money is going to the Vets.

"You can't win until you're not afraid to lose"

by Wmillion on Jul 4, 2008 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cap Space

Chris Mortensen said there is $400 Million of cap space right now. Why arent the veterans getting that?

by Carl Shelton (GloryDayz88) on Jul 2, 2008 4:26 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Look at the contracts in FA

It seems to me that the teams have done their best to spend all of the cap space they have. FA contracts have gotten out of control, and once the FAs are signed, there’s not much else to spend it on. If teams with huge cap space were smart, they would give their good young players big contracts now and try to front-load them as much as possible.

by grapejoos on Jul 2, 2008 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Remember that it's

about 8 mill per team. About enough to work on guys for next year. Teams ALWAYS leave that much to be able to deal with uncertainty and next year’s FAs.

Besides… as they always fail to mention, the owners are the ones at risk in all these transactions. Them what risks are also them what gains.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jul 2, 2008 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

You will need the flexibility under the cap, considering the injuries that occur during training Camp and Pre-Season on horizon.

"You can't win until you're not afraid to lose"

by Wmillion on Jul 2, 2008 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The thing to remember

is that the money is not evenly distributed throughout all of the teams. Certain teams will never get close to the cap number. You had teams like the Vikings playing last year around 40 million under the cap. You also have other teams like Buffalo, Kansas City, Jacksonville and Cincinnati that are notoriously cheap. Those teams will usually never drop big money on free agents. That is not to say that the money is not out there if it were allowed. Jerry and Danny Boy have no issues droppin big dollars on players.

At issue is not whether the money is out there for vets. The issue is that no rookie should come into the league making more money then proven players. It is about paying for production rather then rewarding unrealized potential. I think that it is ridiculous what all NFL players make compared with say school teachers who shape the minds of our future, but since the money is there, give the lions share of the bounty to the guys who have already put butts in the seats and eyes on the commercials. Let the rookies get their big dollars from endorsements where potential and hype actually does pay.

by Impatient on Jul 2, 2008 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes sir

I say give them a cool base for the 1st 3 years, with performance bonus opportunities. Then they become a restricted free-agent after that. That way the team that invested the original money has a shot, but the player is guaranteed to get cashed out if they perform.

"You can't win until you're not afraid to lose"

by Wmillion on Jul 2, 2008 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The veteran pay issue

is the one being brought up on talk radio, etc. I heard Robert Smith yesterday lecturing fans on “the complexities of the CBA and salary cap they don’t understand” and I realized he and Upskirt are so immersed in the finer points that they have lost sight of how the rest of the world lives.

Fans believe in players getting paid and most are OK even with some of the excesses because the players at least have to earn that value. But rookies don’t and fans don’t like it. They don’t like their team getting a great pick in the draft and then fearing actually selecting someone because their team has to pay full price for someone who has a 50% chance or less of being a real franchise player. Fans want them to earn their payday like everyone else.

There are plenty of ways to structure rookie deals to take care of concerns, but they can’t pay the Jake Longs of the world for being good in college.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jul 3, 2008 6:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

3 years

That is enough time to find out about any player. It means you can let a QB sit for his first year anh backup his second year and play him hard in his third. THEN he gets the big money. No pressure to play and you do not spend millions on a bust.

by burmafrd1944 on Jul 2, 2008 11:53 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think the fact that it will take six years to get to UFA is going to help.

I think it should be a slotted scale, and teams should only do like maybe two year deals, and then when those are up, they can choose to tender them or extend them, or lose them without worrying about the long term ramifications of a 7 year deal with $36 million. I also think lowered guaranteed money is a necessary thing.

by Mandmeisterx on Jul 3, 2008 11:16 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I lean the other direction

Guarantee every contract so the salary cap is not a complex matrix of nutcaseness. You have to be a quantum physicist to understand it.

Enough with these 6 year deals that are backloaded so much that they are really 3 year deals with salary cap ramifications that extend 5 years with an opt out option at 4 1/2 years plus performance escalators that dont include not likely to be earned incentives but have multiple roster bonuses that exclude the workout bonuses but do include the playing time incentives and weight fines.

by Impatient on Jul 3, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Players dont want guaranteed contracts

Its all about the signing bonuses for them, thats what they want. Dont buy into all the nonsense that players and the union wants contracts guaranteed, they dont. If the contracts were guaranteed, you would never see 6 year deal of 48 milion, not going to happen. Try fitting 53 players under a 116 million dollar cap every year if contracts were guaranteed. Players know if contracts were guaranteed, their yearly salaries would be alot smaller and contracts would be no more than two and three year deals. A player would rather the 7 year 56 million dollar contract with a 18 million signing bonus instead of a three year 13 dollar deal with no signing bonus, contacts would have to be smaller yearly to fit under a cap.

by Deke on Jul 3, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They would be smaller

and would reflect the actual ammount they will receive. Do you think any player actually gets 48 million? Just look at Larry Fitgerald was scheduled to make 17 million this year and renegotiated his deal. Steve McNair was scheduled to make 22 million the year he was cut by Tennessee. Players rarely see the end of their contracts and realize those lofty numbers. 6 year 48 million dollar deals are more like 4 years 25 million dollar deals.

by Impatient on Jul 3, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Injury

They still want the signing bonus if for no other reason than injury. If a guy gets a 4 year 25 million dollar deal that’s guarranteed year to year and then rips his ACL the first week of training camp, bye bye money. Whereas if he signed a 6 year deal for “48 million”, 18 million of which was signing bonus he still has his money.

by WB3forMB3 on Jul 3, 2008 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So

add an insurance policy.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jul 3, 2008 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that

with all the minds at work, they could figure that part of it out. If J Lo can insure her a$$, they can figure a way to insure an NFL player.

by Impatient on Jul 3, 2008 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Premiums

Why pay a high dollar insurance premium when right now they get it up front and for free? And premiums for football players would be high. Then there’s the potential red tape involved from clauses in the insurance agreement like limitations on the number of plays or number of hits. I can think of all kinds of nightmare scenarios.

by WB3forMB3 on Jul 4, 2008 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Premiums

That can be paid by the team and negotiated as part of the contract.

by Impatient on Jul 4, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The premiums that teams paid would have to count against the cap somehow. Then you end up with a bunch of dead money going to insurance companies for the players that arent injured. This would have the net effect of lowering the salary cap and NFLPA wont go for that.
Plus you add in a ton more legal complexity with players and doctors claiming they cant play and the insurance company claiming they can, or even more likely a player WANTING to play injured and the insurance company saying they cant without voiding the agreement. Im telling you, it wouldnt work. It would be a first rate nightmare.

by WB3forMB3 on Jul 5, 2008 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A nightmare worse then the one we have?

I understand your point here. I just believe that in the best interest of the sport, both the players and owners need to give something up to fix this. The NBA has been making it work for a few years now. They are also open to adjust their CBA as necessary in the interest of common sense. Just google the Gilbert Arenas clause in the NBA CBA. The NFL should follow suit.

by Impatient on Jul 5, 2008 2:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like everything else

you make it subject to impartial and binding arbitration. And the “insurance” could just be money put up by the league, not the team. At any rate, something that does not kill a team under the cap if they swing and miss on a top ten pick is the goal. Right now if Jake Long is a bust, Miami can look forward to another 5 years in the basement BEFORE they can start rebuilding. It’s ridiculous for any team to be held hostage by guys who have never played an NFL game.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jul 5, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely

Both sides are definetly going to have to compromise. I also think a big hurdle is going to involve revenue sharing among the owners. JJ and some of the others are apparently really miffed at few of the other owners, like the Browns’ owner, for not doing everything possible to generate local revenues, like selling stadium naming rights. I think the pool of sharable revenue is going to be reworked to only include TV money and merchandising percentages. In turn though the owners are going to have to agree to raise the percentage of those revenues that go towards the cap to somewhere between 65 – 75%, maybe higher. Thus forcing owners to generate their own revenues if they want to turn a profit. I think the rookies absolutely need their own cap, or even better an NBA slotted system that will virtually eliminate holdouts. I dont buy for a second Upshaw’s contention that rookie contracts have to drive veteran contracts. If the money is out there the agents are going to get it for their players (and themselves). I also like the idea of being able to go over the cap to resign your own players, subject to a luxury tax of course. Yes I think the NBA overall has a good system. Although I would prefer something a bit sleaker as there are so many rules and exceptions to the rules that it takes a scientific calulator and slide rule to figure it out sometimes.

by WB3forMB3 on Jul 5, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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