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Tuna still getting credit in Dallas

 

Uh oh, that Nick Eatman guy is stirring up trouble again. He has a theory that the start of the Cowboys rise back to prominence all began back in the spring of 2003. Recently I made reference to the draft of 2005 where Dallas picked up DeMarcus Ware and Marion Barber among others as being one of the best drafts I’d seen in a while. Eatman mentions that too, but he sees some moves made in 2003 by some guy named Duane Charles Parcells as the big turning point. You might know him as Bill, or the Tuna.

Yup, Eatman is giving credit to the big guy for moves like re-signing Flozell Adams, trading for Terry Glenn, drafting Terence Newman, Jason Witten and Bradie James, and finally, but maybe most importantly – signing some undrafted kid named Tony Romo.

Who knew any of this would happen back in 2003?

No one for sure, but Parcells definitely gets the bulk of the credit for these acquisitions.

Oh no, time for the “it wasn’t the Tuna it was everybody else” debate to break out.

I still say that Bill Parcells was one of the best things to happen to this franchise and that Jerry made one of his smartest moves by hiring him. The Cowboys were in disarray and becoming a mockery before the Tuna came to town. He never won big like I wanted and expected him to but the franchise sure got a lot better during his time.

Thanks, Tuna. I’ll give you credit for your time here and what you left behind.

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If the Cowboys happen to win the SB this season

all the Cowboys haters and outsiders will certainly credit Parcells and give no credit to Phillips which certainly would be unfair, however, Parcells did set the foundation as Eatman points out and certainly does deserve credit for having a substantial part in building this team.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Jun 30, 2008 9:22 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Big Bill Can Still Evaluate Talent

But his magic as a championship coach has been gone since he and Billichump parted ways. He’ll do wonders in Miami in terms of personnel, but it’s a good thing he’s not coaching anymore.

by GhostofGaryHogeboom on Jun 30, 2008 9:46 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Parcells

made some good moves and some bad moves, but the whole idea that we owe the Tuna for our success is rediculous. If we went 3-13 last year instead I doubt we would hear “it is all because of Parcells”. Given the talent we need to be thanking him for, that makes him look like an even worse coach. Hiring the Tuna was a great move on Jerry’s part, but so was letting him go.

by bluewolf021 on Jun 30, 2008 9:52 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

We didn't let him go

He walked away, Jerry had every intention of letting him continue to coach.

by Dave Halprin on Jun 30, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My mistake

In that case I’m glad he walked away. Obviously I don’t know what went on behind closed doors, but when you have two people with egos that large, I assume there some mutuality in the separation.

by bluewolf021 on Jun 30, 2008 10:02 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

this is why JJ left...

people wanna take all the credit for themselves…..

if we win the super bowl, everybody should get credit. parcells for his drafting skills and changing the culture, jerry for having an open mind, resigning players and getting T.O. when everybody thought it was a bad idea (tank too. maybe pacman will prove him right too). stephen jones. sean payton for nagging us to get romo and helping his maturation. wade phillips for changing the culture once again. jason garrett. larry lacewell. and the list goes on and on…....

by Tuna Helper on Jun 30, 2008 10:12 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

All I can say is I'm glad he left

I think he left one year too late in fact. He did some good things, but his coaching philosophy was old school and he certainly lost touch with today’s players. His stubbornness to change was his down fall in Dallas. He handled the whole TO situation like a 5 year old which was a big mistake. When that happened I lost some respect for that man. I expected more from a HOF coach.

Wasn’t drafting Ware Jerry’s doing not Parcells? After the draft didn’t several sources say Parcells wanted Spears at 11 and Jerry wanted Ware there.

Bradie James is an average LB and nothing to brag about. The others he deserves some credit, but Jerry had alot to say in those picks. This is Jerry’s team don’t forget.

Look up... get up...Don't ever, ever give up!!

by Boyzfan94 on Jun 30, 2008 10:13 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Its funny how

the players that complained about Tuna did not improve with his absense (with the possible exception of TO – but I think that is due to having Romo for a full year).

The guys that appreciated Tuna are guys that are the backbone of our team both on the field and in the lockerroom.

I just don’t see the point of bad mouthing Tuna.

by BigE on Jun 30, 2008 10:54 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Parcells is over-hyped.

He made some decent moves, but it’s his name more than anything that’s giving him credit.

Everyone wants to pat his back for drafting Ware and Barber, but for every Demarcus Ware he drafted, there’s a Bobby Carpenter. For every Marion Barber, there’s a Jacob Rogers; for every Jason Witten there’s a Anthony Fasano, and for every Bradie James, there’s a Skyler Green.

by Iessthanmike on Jun 30, 2008 12:15 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

He deserves some credit, but not all of it.

It cracked me up to hear that before Parcells, we had 0 Pro-Bowlers, but after him, we have 13. Except for the fact that 2 were on the team before Parcells, 3 joined after Parcells left, and 1 (T.O.) was unwanted by Parcells.

by Baked Potato Soup on Jun 30, 2008 12:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Are you giving him credit for 7 pro-bowlers then?

Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey

by Seanrude on Jun 30, 2008 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you guys aren't getting it

forget about the actual players that were brought in while he was here, Parcell’s biggest contribution to the organization was changing the losing atitude and instilling a work ethic making players responsible for going the extra mile in practice and therefore in games.

Parcells changed the culture within the team by his disipline which was severley needed at the time.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Jun 30, 2008 1:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Amen

This is absolutely true, and those that deny it (thankfully) have forgotten the misery that preceded him. Even in the Carter/Testaverde/Bledsoe years, there was a renewed fire and some forward momentum going on.

Also, side theory as to why the media always praises Parcells (other than his considerable abilities as a talent evaluator/motivator): he won Super Bowls in NY when a lot of these writers were growing up/coming up, and the guy is a source of constant copy: he reneges on obligations, is always looking to jump ship, and gives great sound bites.

by grapejoos on Jun 30, 2008 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's absolutely true

BP brought in talent, but also missed on a lot of picks (Rogers, and Skyler Green…urp, to name a couple) plus the Cowboys were coming out of cap hell at the same time which obviously helped. More importantly, he got rid of the problem players and brought much needed discipline when this team was wandering aimlessly.

The conversion to the 3-4 defense, letting Romo develop, and cleaning out the trash were his greatest accomplishments in Dallas. In that light, he deserves a lot of credit for the team’s current success.

T-New, shutting down WR's for Dallas since 2003

by APerfectStar on Jun 30, 2008 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with all of the above except...

we can’t miss the fact that Jerry brought the Tuna in. And he did it after thinking about for quite some time. What do I mean? Only that at this point Jerry also realized that he needed a better approach. Although no one in the MSM will acknowledge it, this was a partnership, and a very good one. Jerry learned how to be a better GM and the Tuna learned to not buy ALL the groceries and still make a pretty good meal.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 30, 2008 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well put

I think Jerry deserves some credit for improving here as well (after all, his track record hardly could have been worse). He paid for the hubris with Jimmy and came to the realization that the 95 championship only happened because of the development that came before. He wanted another team-builder like Jimmy, and thus came Tuna. Now the development has happened, and hopefully the team can complete the reformation this year.

by grapejoos on Jun 30, 2008 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

That was a shocking hire. A great decision by Jerry to go after BP when nobody thought it would work. Jerry learned a lot from BP, and how to work with a coach with an ego to match his own for the good of the team. I think Jerry knows the good of the team come before his own pride now.

T-New, shutting down WR's for Dallas since 2003

by APerfectStar on Jun 30, 2008 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why does Parcells receive so much hype?

Parcells is such a big name I think he crowds out others when credit is distributed. I think it is well known by most of the online Cowboy community that Parcells did not want Newman and instead wanted that NT, which ended up being a bust for the Jets (can’t remember his name). It is also well known that it was Sean Payton who brought Romo here, and it was David Lee who begged Parcells to keep him. Most importantly if Parcells had his way we would have drafted Spears at 12 instead of Ware, whom is probably the best player on our team and could potentially be the best player in the league.

So lets look at our 13 Pro-Bowlers and determine who we can and can’t give Parcells credit for:

Can:
Flo
Barber (not sure whose idea it was to draft him but I’ll throw him a bone)
Witten

Can’t:
Romo
Gurode
Davis
T.O.
Folk
Ware
Ellis
Newman
Hamlin

So essentially we can give Parcells credit for 3 out of 13 pro-bowlers (2 if you don’t include Barber). Count me unimpressed.

I agree with Terry that Parcells instilled discipline into this team, but there are a lot of authoritarian coaches out there. We could have gotten a lot of coaches to come in and do that. Parcells is nothing special in that regard.

by quincyyyyy on Jun 30, 2008 1:23 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe not as Parcells the GM

However, I think you can give Parcells (and his staff) credit for developing some of these players into what they are today. Romo constantly credits Parcells for his growth. I think Ware probably learned a thing or two from Parcells as well. Gurode developed under Sparano, Parcells’ guy. Romo developed under Payton, Parcells’ guy. You are right not to credit him for everything, but the guy must have helped these players realize their potential.

And, by the way, even though Parcells’ record is spotty in terms of drafts, he’s still better than most GMs in the league. Miami is going to be much improved right away under his regime.

And, by the way, I think Parcells wanted to draft DT Kevin Williams, a 3 time pro bowler, over Newman, a one-time pro bowler. Not that I’m unhappy with the pick, but I’m just sayin’.

by grapejoos on Jun 30, 2008 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually Parcells stunted Gurode's growth by keeping him at guard

Romo doesn’t constantly give Parcells credit, but he does throw him a bone once in awhile. But if you were to ask Romo who was really responsible he would say David Lee, not Parcells.

And, by the way, I think Parcells wanted to draft DT Kevin Williams, a 3 time pro bowler, over Newman, a one-time pro bowler.

No it was the Jets NT. Duane something.

by quincyyyyy on Jun 30, 2008 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok

Gurode didn’t play center for Parcells? I thought he did, and quite well, but maybe my memory is shoddy. I don’t see much point in quibbling about the Romo statements, because I’ve heard him say them many times. Whether or not it’s constant is just semantics.

As for the DT thing, you could be completely right about that. Others have said on this board that he wanted Williams, so I just assumed that was the case. Mea culpa.

by grapejoos on Jun 30, 2008 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He did play center eventually

but Parcells wasted a lot of time trying him out at guard.

Romo gives most of the credit to David Lee. He has said this many times. You can go ask Romo historian Terry if you would like. The people who were responsible for his development go in this order: 1. Lee 2. Payton 3. Parcells.

Apparently it was either Robertson or Williams:

Rumor has it that Parcells actually did not want Newman and instead wanted either current Broncos Defensive Tackle DeWayne Robertson or Minnesota Vikings Defensive Tackle Kevin Williams, but instead felt that it was more important to spend 2003 evaluating the scouts, so they drafted Newman, the guy the scouts liked.

http://yakuzarich.blogspot.com/2008/05/report-newman-barber-sign-extensions.html

So who would Parcells choose if given the choice? Looking at some previous mock drafts and where Williams and Robertson were in fact drafted, it seems that Robertson was higher rated than Williams in all the mock drafts, was eventually chosen first, and is built more like a NT, so I would have to imagine that Robertson would have been Parcells first choice.

by quincyyyyy on Jul 1, 2008 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok, points have been made

I relent on the DT point. It’s just another example of Jerry picking better than Bill, of which there are quite a few.

My point was simply that Parcells helped develop the players we have. It doesn’t bother me that Romo only credits Parcells sometimes (or that Parcells’ assistants developed him more); the fact is that he still does.

I think Parcells is overrated in many ways, but to deny the positive impact he had on the organization is crazy to me.

by grapejoos on Jul 1, 2008 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

I agree Parcell’s deserves credit in his role in our turn around. He took us the playoffs his 1st season as coach. He gave Jerry his input on personnel, it was up to Jerry to pull the trigger. No Coach, Scout, or GM is ever 100% dead on. Just have to be right more then you are wrong.

Parcell’s and Jerry together made a great team and that is one of the reason we won 13 games last year.

"Why everything that's supposed to be bad, Make me feel so good?"

by Wmillion on Jul 1, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My point is Jerry could have hired any

disciplinarian as head coach and we would be just as good as we are now. Maybe better since the vast majority of Parcells pet cats have been busts (Carp, Spears, Peterman, Rogers, etc.).

by quincyyyyy on Jul 1, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe

But no Parcells means no Payton, which means no Romo. That alone makes it worthwhile, to me. Even if Bill can’t get the credit for Romo, guys that would not have been here if not for Bill do.

by grapejoos on Jul 1, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh and

Ditto for David Lee, another guy Parcells brought in.

by grapejoos on Jul 1, 2008 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh good lord that is not good logic at all

and if not for parcells grandma parcells mother would never have been born to give birth to to Parcells who then hired Sean Payton who recruited Romo. And so on.

Point is give credit to where credit is due, which is Sean Payton for recruiting Romo and David Lee for developing him.

by quincyyyyy on Jul 1, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

DT Dwayne Roberston was his choice

who BTW now plays for the Broncos. He was traded this off season. He has been a disappointment so far.

People are giving Parcells way too much credit. Sure he had a say, but Jerry overruled him on a couple of these draft moves. One being Ware, taking him at 11 instead of Spears. Thank goodness for Jerry on that decision. Spears is a bust at 20. Imagine if he was taken at 11? Newman wasn’t his first choice either and I believe Jerry and the scouting department had a say in that decision.

Look up... get up...Don't ever, ever give up!!

by Boyzfan94 on Jul 1, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still say that Bill Parcells was one of the best things to happen to this franchise and that Jerry made one of his smartest moves by hiring him. The Cowboys were in disarray and becoming a mockery before the Tuna came to town. He never won big like I wanted and expected him to but the franchise sure got a lot better during his time.

My thoughts exactly. I thought his talks with JJ were a joke when I first heard the rumblings, but his presence instantly restored the credibility of the franchise. It was pretty rough going during the Campo years, that’s for sure.

by Pete222 on Jun 30, 2008 1:32 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Duane Charles? Really?

Then why the Hell does he go by “Bill”? That doesn’t make a lick of sense…

by no1cowboysfan on Jun 30, 2008 2:15 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Right

I’d definitely go by Duane….

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 30, 2008 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i like how you try and start arguments

pass.

Dino Radja >>> Soft Nowitzki

by Longhorn on Jun 30, 2008 2:38 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

tuna talk

Chan Gailely,Dave Campo,two reasons anybody cant coach the Cowboys,those years were embarrising! Tuna changed the attitudes of the players we had,& got rid of guys that were not gettn it done. The only move I personally did”nt like was not gettn Stephen Jackson, but we”ve recovered. Overall were in a much better position,than we was before he got here. my phrase for Parcells is way to weed out the scrubs!

by bleedn blu on Jun 30, 2008 3:38 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Time will tell

The GM position is a dysfunctional arrangement. Since Jimmy left, Jerry has provided the critics of his GM antics with plenty of cannon fodder. From Stepfret Williams to David LaFleur to Quincy Carter to 2 first round draft picks for Joey Galloway, it hasn’t worked. It’s probably not a coincidence that we had no pro bowlers the year before Bill’s arrival and had 13 the year after he left. Whether you give Bill credit or not, the facts are the facts. With Jimmy and Bill, two similarly strong-will, veteran coaches, a very good roster was built in Dallas. Without those two coaches, it has been a disaster. Now we enter a new era, and I have great faith in Wade Phillips. I don’t have any faith in Jerry as GM. A GM who is accountable to no one is an untenable situation. I think Jerry has already made a few bad moves that will hurt us in the coming years, but more gaffes are coming from him. Why? Because there’s no recourse for bad picks. In a few years as we watch Parcells/Ireland build Miami’s team and watch Jerry’s moves in Big D we will be able to make some more educated guesses as to whom the credit for our 13 Pro Bowlers should go.

by rrb on Jun 30, 2008 5:51 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Based on leaks

we already know that Jones has learned to listen better and the Tuna is not infallible. I liked the last two drafts and neither of them had Tuna stamped on them…

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 30, 2008 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lets see:
Gurode was going to be let go but BP convinced Jerrah to give him one last chance.
Gurode himself has stated that is what really got him going.
NO one thought we would offer the Hotel a big contract early in 2003. BP convinced Jerrah to do it. And the rest is history-all of the Hotel’s Pro Bowls came after that.
Who Else wanted to take a chance on colombo?
BP also was the one who brought in Terry Glenn, Richie Anderson, Fergie; even Vinny was a upgrade on Jerrah’s boy Q.
And it was BP who was determined to hold onto Romo despite Jerrah’s infatuation with the baseball trio of Q, Henson and Hutch.
Also BP was the one who got Kosier, who while not great is very solid.
so 4/5 of our O line and our franchise QB have BPs fingerprints all over them.

by burmafrd1944 on Jul 1, 2008 4:49 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Funny how

... Jerry Jones always gets the blame when the Cowboys fail, but when the team succeeds, it is always someone else who gets the credit.

Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.

by OskieOskie on Jul 1, 2008 9:59 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

Jerry seems to be everyone’s whipping boy.

by quincyyyyy on Jul 1, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jerry bought the Cowboys at a time when they were lousy. He brought in Jimmy Johnson and they got great, really fast. Jimmy left, Jerry ran the show, and the Cowboys started to suck again. Jerry brought in Bill Parcells, and the Cowboys got really good, verging on great, really fast. If Jerry is such a brilliant GM and has such an eye for talent, why did the Cowboys fail so miserably prior to Bil coming on board?

Jerry is a great owner, and will rightfully be in the hall of fame someday, if he deserves the lion’s share of the credit for the Cowboy’s successes, he also deserves the lion’s share fo the blame for their failures, unless you are arguing that Chan Gailey and Dave Campo ran roughshod over him, which I find very hard to believe.

Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey

by Seanrude on Jul 1, 2008 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is odd that the Cowboys were only good when there was coach with good player evaluation skills at the helm. Makes you wonder how good Jerry is at evaluating personnel.

Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey

by Seanrude on Jul 2, 2008 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"good coach with good player evaluation skills"

so says you. How did Jimmy do as Dolphins head coach again? And Parcells has a losing record over his entire career without his boy Bill Bellichick as assistant coach. I would attribute a lot of Parcells success to having Belichick next him.

Like I said it is rare for a team to stay consistently good over a 20 year period. Fans expectations can be unrealistic sometimes.

by quincyyyyy on Jul 3, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What?

I think the fact that he has done it with two separate guys shows it is Jerry. If Parcells can only do it with Belicheat that shows you its all Belicheat.

by quincyyyyy on Jul 4, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So the crappy Chan Gailey years and the even crappier Dave Campo years were because those guys ran roughshod over Jerry?

Like I have said, Jerry will be in the Hall of Fame for his contributions to the league as an owner, but I’m just not seeing the brilliance as a GM.

Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey

by Seanrude on Jul 4, 2008 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jerry just made bad decisions during those years

It was Jerry who brought T.O. here and it was Jerry who wanted to drafted Newman and Ware, all of this were at the protests of Parcells. I certainly think Jerry is more brilliant than Parcells.

by quincyyyyy on Jul 5, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wrong. BP kept Romo on his own. Payton and Lee had very little to do with it.
Once Romo was brought to his attention, he saw the talent and kept him no matter what lunkheads Jerrah dragged in. THAT was all BP

by burmafrd1944 on Jul 1, 2008 11:02 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think your a little off buddy

Payton and Lee had very much to do with Romo getting where he is today.

Look up... get up...Don't ever, ever give up!!

by Boyzfan94 on Jul 1, 2008 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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