Look Who Became a Celebrity QB
by 325424 on Jan 20, 2009 10:51 AM CST
219 comments
Parcells famously gave Romo a list of commandments to follow as an NFL QB. Notable among them, "Don't become a celebrity QB." Some have argued his social life and paparazzi following means he has violated this. Others say as QB of the Dallas Cowboys you get more attention than most.
Calvin Watkins adds some color to this debate:
According to five sources, several offensive players lost respect for Garrett for his failure to corral quarterback Tony Romo in practice. Romo, sources said, often forced throws in practice and often did not treat practice work consistently.
The quarterback's practice habits were so bad, sources said, that they affected the way he played in games and could have factored into the offense's problems.
So we have a QB who doesn't like to practice. Perhaps even though he loves the game, he doesn't really like to practice. Ugh.
Romo, according to a source, was also personally offended when Garrett was critical of his play late in the season.
If this is true, we may be looking at a future with an extremely talented, somewhat lazy, prima donna. Ugh.
Say it ain't so Romo.
And to those of us who thought the team was more disciplined under Parcells, but weren't sure how much, well the answer may be 50-120 times more undisciplined. Late to a Parcells' meting it cost you $5k, miss a session in the training room - you are out $12k. Under Wade it's only a C-note. Oh well, as Jerry points out, you can't fine the guys - they need to talk to the media!
I think this team may have to stink for anther year or two before Jerry want's to win badly enough that he gets out of the way for the third time.
Ugh.
Another user-created commentary provided by a BTB reader.
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Romo got paid and his life is good
why should he care.
by quincyyyyy on Jan 20, 2009 10:54 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Because his job is to play qb for the DCs
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 21, 2009 12:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually Romo loves to practice
Those unnamed sources are FOS. Probably T.O. and RW because he doesn’t throw enough passes to them in practice.
comlplete BS.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 20, 2009 11:00 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
maybe he loves to practice
maybe he LOVED to practice.
who knows.
i think Newman has gone on the record saying Romo forces passes to Witten in practice.
his play seemed less disciplined this year.
the team also seemed less disciplined and the fine commentary seems right on.
by 325424 on Jan 20, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How do you know he loves to practice?
Who are your sources on that?
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 20, 2009 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Romo and previous coaches are on record
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 20, 2009 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well Terry
1. Can you honestly trust Romo as source? Other than AI, does anyone admit to not practicing?
2. No one is arguing that he wasn’t a hard worker. The fear is that he got the big contract, the hollywood girlfriend and a bunch of accolades, could the fire burn a bit cooler now?
by 325424 on Jan 20, 2009 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
no. not at all
Romo has been a gym rat all of life and now all of a sudden he isn’t, that makes no sense.
A player isn’t going to alter his practice habits overnight, that just doesn’t happen.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 20, 2009 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
objection, relevance
Previous coaches weren’t there this year
Romo is not a credible source as to his own habits
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 20, 2009 3:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
players don't change that quick..they are who they are
If they are hard working all of their life, they’re not to going to just change in one season.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 20, 2009 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He didn't
He didn’t know what he could away with the 1st year with Wade, he did his 2nd year and that’s not a knock on Romo. it is on the HC
by cow_fanatic on Jan 20, 2009 3:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So when an unnamed source throws TO under the bus; it’s true. But when it’s a player you like it’s not.
In other news the media is FULL OF SH%T!!! Has been for years now. We are NOT, I promise you, getting the real story on any of these guys.
0 = The number of Super Bowls the Eagles have won.
by gee-roj on Jan 20, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
do i detect an element of... sarcasm? LOL!
Celebrity or Imposter?
YOU Decide...
http://www.xanga.com/metaltometal/689036052/celebrity-or-imposter/
by silverblue5 on Jan 20, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Michael Irvin is to Troy Aikman
as Terry is to Tony Romo
“Man that’s my quarterback and he is off limits”
Everyone has their lot in life, and Terry’s is a full blown man-crush apologist for Tony.
by Impatient on Jan 20, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He'a another A I , practice ? practice ? man, practice ?
I’m a multi millionaire, I don’t need no stinking practice ?
by CowboysRnumba1 on Jan 20, 2009 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You've probably been asked this before
Terry are you really Tony?
by dave33 on Jan 20, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or Tony's mum?
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 21, 2009 12:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Too bad
Romo doesn’t love to play in December when the season is on the line.
Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.
by OskieOskie on Jan 22, 2009 6:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Romo does love to play in December
The team just hasn’t been good late in the season and he gets all the blame. Partial blame yes, not the entire blame.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 23, 2009 7:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There are certain passes in December
I think Romo would like back like the one in Pittsburgh but he was the highest rated QB in December this year(9TDs, 1int). But that also means you have to ignore the fumbles
by cow_fanatic on Jan 23, 2009 10:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't the Ravens game in December?
(Romo) still gets excited when he buys a new t-shirt at Target for crying out loud
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 23, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My bad
I heard that on the radio and ran with it, guess that was my unnamed source. Didn;t sound right to me either, thanks for the correction
by cow_fanatic on Jan 23, 2009 12:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No biggie
(Romo) still gets excited when he buys a new t-shirt at Target for crying out loud
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 23, 2009 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a culture of complacency in now in Big D.
Let’s call it “The Valley Ranch Country Club.”
The exclusive membership is limited to those with talent and marketability.
Discipline and accountability are no longer accepted and will not even be tolerated.
Celebrity or Imposter?
YOU Decide...
http://www.xanga.com/metaltometal/689036052/celebrity-or-imposter/
by silverblue5 on Jan 20, 2009 11:00 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
along those lines
Jones was commenting on RW2 and said he had a lot of offseason work to do. How does Jerry expect to get that out of him? He’s already been paid. What’s the carrot, what’s the stick? Its a culture of complacency because everyone has been paid.
by dave33 on Jan 20, 2009 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
JJ also said he's the #1 reciever
How did he earn that?? I know , it was his one TD catch for the year. Maybe next season he’ll exceed last years Big-Time numbers and catch 15 or 16 passes and run two reverses for 1/2 a yard. Can you say BUST. He’s on the Bobby Carpenter plane destned for nowhere. Don’t worry Dallas will only be paying for this little gem of a trade for 6 or 7 years. I think that while we’re at it maybe we can talk Brian Bosworth out of retirement for oh say the same 45 Million.
by Martin79 on Jan 20, 2009 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
-1
He was injured this is a complete exageration and over reaction
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 21, 2009 12:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How
do other teams pay their players and still have success?
by cow_fanatic on Jan 20, 2009 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How much heart or true grit did you see in that Philly game from Dallas when they knew if they won the're in..NONE
by Martin79 on Jan 20, 2009 2:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I saw
what I’ve seen all year, inconsistency. What is your solution since you have a pretty good handle on the problem?
by cow_fanatic on Jan 20, 2009 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Got Me? They have to want it as badly as the fans do.
by Martin79 on Jan 20, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you see
a game this year in which you thought they played with heart?
by cow_fanatic on Jan 20, 2009 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, the last Redskin game
I believe Wade is a players coach and they like him and his laidback ways but by the end of the year they were a reflection of him. Maybe they have heart, I know they have talent but they need a new direction. They need a Coach they respect.
by Martin79 on Jan 20, 2009 2:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
which leads to my point of inconsistency. They also showed heart against Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay and the 2nd Giants game
by cow_fanatic on Jan 20, 2009 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the last Redskins game meant alot to me, I live near D.C.
by Martin79 on Jan 20, 2009 2:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The pittsburgh game, the defense showed heart and the offese cotinued to struggle
under Garrett. Can’t keep calling the same plays on the same downs every game. They also said when Dallas need that first down and Romo threw the pick, they knew he would go to Witten.
by Martin79 on Jan 20, 2009 2:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ray Lewis called it PREDICTABLE, Polimolu called it PREDICTABLE and Jim Johnson called it NOTHING NEW
It being the offense
by Martin79 on Jan 20, 2009 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Again.....
You can’t go from an undrafted free-agent QB under Parcells to a starter under Parcells with bad practice habits. JJ does not control how the team practices. This is all a reflection on the HC, Hillbilly Clown
by cow_fanatic on Jan 20, 2009 11:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
i agree with most of what you said
but historically football coaches are pretty good disciplinarians.
its tough to to rise to the rank of an nfl head coach without discipline.
historically, when dallas gets undisciplined it b/c JJ allows the player to go directly to him and undermines the coach. it looks like its happening again.
by 325424 on Jan 20, 2009 11:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Exceptions to rules
The HC we have now is an exception. What tangible point can you make in favor of Wade instilling discipline? I understand the JJ aspect but do you think Wade is in Jerry’s ear letting him know he cannot coach this team adequately with the players going to him? Doesn’t have it in him
by cow_fanatic on Jan 20, 2009 11:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
When reading up on Wade when he was hired, there wasn’t much in terms of people raving about his ‘disciplinary ways’ or players saying much about their respect for him.
I think there are more “exceptions,” as you say, to the train of thinking that says most NFL head coaches are disciplinarians ‘by default.’ More than ever before, HCs are hired based on an owner/GM’s desire to improve the play on one side of the ball, and therefore hire defensive/offensive specialists.
Take Wade for example. We heard WAAAAY more about what he would bring to the defense than we did about his leadership qualities, etc. To me, owners/GMs are hiring for waaaaaaay too specific reasons nowadays.
I think one of the reasons coordinators struggle to transition to HCs is because more and more, the coordinators are used as “go betweens” for the players and head coaches. For example: A DE is not happy with his role. He complains to the DC. The DC then takes the complaint—although probably in a softer, sometimes different tone—to the HC.
In that regard, today’s DCs/OCs are much like union stewards, which probably works well for them in the capacity of a coordinator. But as HC, it simply doesn’t work, as they struggle to establish that “line in the sand” in regards to what will be tolerated. This is exactly what Wade reminds me of at times: a union steward.
by Starred4Life on Jan 21, 2009 11:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This isn't High School
Romo should know what needs to be done if he is to be any leader. He should want to work hard and want to get better, not goof around during practice and games.
by bryangene on Jan 20, 2009 3:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What's your source that he does that?
Please read Again….. above again and explain how Romo’s habits and background provide foundation for your opinion. Here we are again running with an anonymous source to prove our point. Romo can want discipline for the team that surrounds him but if it’s not provided by the HC he doesn’t have a chance
by cow_fanatic on Jan 20, 2009 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Source?
You don’t need one. It’s apparent on game day. He’s not a leader and anyone who says otherwise is a liar. Your play on game day reflects your practice habit. I guess all these sources are just making stuff up. Yep, that it!
by bryangene on Jan 20, 2009 7:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's what sources do
They make stuff up for the write who quotes them. It proves the writer’s point every time they write a story if they’re able to quote an anonymous source. Noone can refute or question their “source”.
Romo’s practice habits under Parcells moved him from undrafted to starter. Are you saying he peaked at that point?
by cow_fanatic on Jan 20, 2009 7:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Romo does work hard and want to get better
If you want to believe those BS unnamed sources, without quotes, thats your problem.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 20, 2009 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But you believe everything said about TO Terry ???
yeah…ok
by CowboysRnumba1 on Jan 20, 2009 11:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Terry goes to Target with Romo
And he is his own source, so don’t question him.
Do you know how excited a Hanes Beefy T makes Romo? It’s really special.
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 20, 2009 11:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I never said that either
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 21, 2009 6:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you serious
or delusional?
(Romo) still gets excited when he buys a new t-shirt at Target for crying out loud
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 21, 2009 9:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
From the discipline thread, a cut and paste
anyone who actually thinks money has changed Romo is completely clueless The dude still gets excited when he buys a new t-shirt at Target for crying out loud.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 20, 2009 1:37 PM PST
You can’t even keep track of the stuff you make up to support your position.
(Romo) still gets excited when he buys a new t-shirt at Target for crying out loud
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 21, 2009 9:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was talking about the T.O. comment
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 21, 2009 5:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So we cant read unnamed sources but we can beleive Terry?
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 21, 2009 12:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Terry
is providing an opinion in a factual kind of way. Unnamed sources are a way for lazy journalists to give credence to their own story.
by cow_fanatic on Jan 21, 2009 6:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No reporters use unnamed sources
because their sources are in a position where it would be detrimental to their career if it was know they were making the comments. It has nothing to do with lazy journalism.
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 21, 2009 8:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree to disagree
When you are able to corroberate “facts” in a story based on “unnamed sources”, you can write anything you want because there is no way to disprove or even question what is being written. Thanks Aussie
by cow_fanatic on Jan 22, 2009 8:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
alright, agree to disagree
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 22, 2009 4:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This said it all
I think this team may have to stink for anther year or two before Jerry want’s to win badly enough that he gets out of the way for the third time.
Ain’t that da truth.
Celebrity or Imposter?
YOU Decide...
http://www.xanga.com/metaltometal/689036052/celebrity-or-imposter/
by silverblue5 on Jan 20, 2009 11:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
My Research Into Romo's Performance
Show he will decline the next two years. It also correctly predicted he would regress the previous two years, which is something none of us wanted to hear. I’d heard the rumors about Romo, but wasn’t sure if they were true. If there are several sources questioning his habits, that’s not a good sign.
I get the impression this team is falling to pieces, it’s a circus with no ring leader at any level.
At least we have a special teams coach who commands respect. Not sure what else I can be optimistic about next year.
by kindablue on Jan 20, 2009 11:53 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
as of right this second
you kinda cant cause no really huge changes have happened, minus the Brian Stewart firing. But the season isn’t even over yet. Too early to be worrying about next year.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by shadow1480 on Jan 20, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1 kinda.....Wooooo Hoooo , Let's go punt team, hip hip hurray !!!!
by CowboysRnumba1 on Jan 20, 2009 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
we may go 6-10, but at least our ST will be #1 in the NFL!!!
Celebrity or Imposter?
YOU Decide...
http://www.xanga.com/metaltometal/689036052/celebrity-or-imposter/
by silverblue5 on Jan 20, 2009 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL, We May End Up Cheering
The punt and kickoff return units a lot this year!
by kindablue on Jan 20, 2009 2:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So you call what happened last year regressing?
He put up amazing numbers. And btw what does youre “research into Romo’s performance” entail?
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 21, 2009 1:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You silly kids and your "numbers"
“Numbers” don’t get you into January.
by Doomsday on Jan 21, 2009 4:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Romos "numbers" got us 'into' January last year.
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 21, 2009 5:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Regressing
When I saw Romo regressed, I mean he “went backwards”, that is, his performance slipped from 2007. That’s what regress means. It doesn’t mean he played bad per se, but that he wasn’t as good as he was before.
I would not call much about Romo’s performance last year amazing, but that’s a purely subjective term. Personally, amazing to me is Tom Brady in 2007, or Peyton Manning in 2004, or Steve Young in 1994. or Joe Montana in 1989, or Dan Marino in 1984.
By the measures I use, Romo was barely above average last season.
See my most recent fanpost, if you want more details.
by kindablue on Jan 21, 2009 9:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Unless I'm missing something about your system......
It only factors in yardage and turnovers and doesn’t factor in TD passes at all. Although I recognize you stated your research lead you to believe those two categories were by far the best way to guage a QB’s success over the long haul, that still seems like a very incomplete method of guaging a QB’s effectiveness to me.
And if Romo was barely above average in ’07 according to your pass metrics, I think that just goes to show how flawed your system really is.
by MadMick on Jan 21, 2009 10:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 22, 2009 12:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So It's Flawed
Because you personally didn’t like it? Because it didn’t include a statistic that is already highly correlated with passing yards, and would be double-counting the affect and biasing the outcome?
It captures the important things an offense needs to do. Gain yards, avoid turnovers. My research shows every other stat is correlated with the others, or simply doesn’t affect the outcome.
by kindablue on Jan 22, 2009 6:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
TDs I think are important
The object of the game is to score more points than the other team, right?
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 22, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Passing Yards Are Correlated with TDs
It doesn’t make sense to count the same thing twice.
More fundamentally, counting points when trying to model the generation of points makes no mathematical sense. A dependent variable can’t be expressed as a function of itself.
by kindablue on Jan 22, 2009 5:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Terry
It should be added as a variable.
"Protect the Romo, Save the Cowboys!!"
by Wmillion on Jan 22, 2009 5:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's Really, Really Bad Math Mistake
It’s a math mistake every algebra teacher in the world would puke at.
A dependent variable (points scored) can’t be mathematically expressed as a function of itself (also points scored). It’s a circular argument that makes no sense.
That’s why I researched and constructed the model, to determine which underlying statistics led to the generation of points. If I included points in that equation, the model would refer to itself, making it nonsensical.
So, I’ll pass on your suggestion.
by kindablue on Jan 22, 2009 6:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Im not going to be overly critical of your formula
But I’ll repeat what ws said before, If your math says that Romo in 2007 was just above average, something needs to be fixed.
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 22, 2009 7:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
He turned the ball over too many times. He had the highest ratio of fumbles to sacks of any starting quarterback in the league. That stuff is murder to an offense. His yards per attempt were still good, but now the turnovers are starting to offset that advantage. Which is what most of the more cool headed observers are saying is wrong with his game.
And unfortunately, my research shows it’s going to get worse before it gets better, and given all the bizarre happenings at Valley Ranch the last six weeks or so, I fear this prediction, like my other two, will turn out to be correct.
by kindablue on Jan 23, 2009 7:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Murder to an offense?
The same offense that put up the most points in Cowboys history?
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 23, 2009 7:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That Was 2007
Last year was much worse. The offense was pedestrian, and the passing game was the reason.
by kindablue on Jan 25, 2009 10:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ive been talking about 2007 the whole time
Are you talking about 2008? Because that would explain why you rate Romo below what I would have expected.
HAPPY AUSTRALIA DAY!! Remember the BBQ
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 25, 2009 6:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, You Were Talking About 2007
I misunderstood. My metric does show Romo’s performance declined from 2006 to 2007, however. His interception rate, while still high, improved slightly from 2006, and his sack rate improved significantly. However, his net yards per attempt dropped significantly, from 8.01 (which is ridiculous) to 7.42 (merely brilliant).
He started more games and threw more passes in 2007, and the team responded with more points. But on an efficiency (points per pass) basis, on balance he actually declined from 2006.
by kindablue on Jan 26, 2009 7:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ok that I understand
I was wondering how your metric showed the 2007 version of Romo as average.
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 26, 2009 8:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Math?
I thought Math is always bad?
"Protect the Romo, Save the Cowboys!!"
by Wmillion on Jan 22, 2009 7:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
your mistake is thinking
passing yards=passing Tds
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 23, 2009 8:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You Clearly Don't Understand What I Think
Otherwise you wouldn’t be stuffing phony words into my mouth.
I’ll explain it again for about the fourth time here, not including the fan post I referenced.
Total offensive yards are highly correlated to offensive points. I am specifically not saying what you incorrectly think I was saying, because you are only looking at the passing stats.
Furthermore, your belief that passing TDs should be part of the equation is nonsense from a mathematical perspective. Points are the dependent variable, and you cannot include TDs, which are a direct measure of points, also as an independent variable. They have to be different units. If you don’t understand what I’m saying, and it appears you have no clue, then I can’t help you.
by kindablue on Jan 25, 2009 10:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
its because you don't make sense
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 25, 2009 7:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually Anyone Familiar with Statistics
That is, anyone in the finance, industrial engineering, defense or insurance actuarial fields would understand instantly what I’m saying. What I’m doing is so simple in their minds, it would be boring, not controversial.
by kindablue on Jan 26, 2009 7:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not statistics
but accounting. And, yes, it makes sense.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Jan 27, 2009 5:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
thats is absolutely not true
and makes no sense whatsoever. For example, a team could run up and down the field all day but inside the 20, the qb makes 2 great TD passes.
In your formula, the qb gets a low score for limited passing yards or no credit for the 2 TD passes which are not correlated to the TD passes.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 23, 2009 7:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Luckily with our offense...
We DON’T run up and down the field. Most of our offense starts with Romo’s right arm. So for other QB’s, your objection to his math is legit. However in this case, you’re shooting yourself in the foot…
Then again, it’s Terry arguing Romo so all bets are off…
by AikmanNailedMySis on Jan 23, 2009 8:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
His Objections
Aren’t even meaningfully addressing much less accurately critiquing my model, so that don’t apply.
He just saw that his favorite player on the face of the earth didn’t fare well in my system, which has strong ties back to reality, so he’s throwing a temper tantrum.
by kindablue on Jan 25, 2009 10:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You Haven't Done the Impartial Research
And are in no position to tell me what is true.
The correlation between offensive net yardage, and the points they score are strongly correlated. Meaning, one strongly influences the other. If you disagree, present empirical evidence to support your position.
The anecdote you bring up is irrelevant; you’re obsessed with conventional quarterback stats, rather than the big picture. Which is not surprising, since you see the world through the eyes of a highly biased Tony Romo cheerleader, rather than a serious fan of the game.
by kindablue on Jan 25, 2009 10:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am interested in understanding your formula more than I am debunking it.
I do think your formula might have some use as a general predictor of trends in a QB’s gradual decline at certain points in his career but without having a season by season list of how certain guys have fared over the past 30 years or so or even exactly how sacks and fumble per sack is factored into your formula, I don’t know that I can appreciate how truly useful it is. I’m not trying to tell you your research is a crock or anything along those lines however I would at least like to know exactly how the formula works so I can do some research of my own.
I agree the crooked turn Warner’s career took after crawling out from under some rock and setting the league blaze is an obvious red flag for Romo but I didn’t need any intricate research data to be weary of Romo’s career taking a similar wrong turn to Warner’s. While on the topic of Romo/Warner, how can Warner have a 0.52 this past season which as I understand it is pretty good within your system and Romo have an .048 in ‘07 despite Romo being plus-15 in turnovers and Warner only plus-9 in those seasons?
To me, your formula seems like a more fine-tuned method of pointing out "turnovers are bad; mmkay." Forget assigning TD passes a big fat point value as you’ve made it abundantly that simply doesn’t jibe with your formula but I do think TD pass/turnover ratio should at least be taken into account somehow. Further along those lines, I question how relevant a tweaked efficiency scale even is these days. Just look at this Super Bowl and the two preceding it; Roethlisberger, Eli, and Grossman all had negative turnover margins during the regular season and they all managed to get teams to the Super Bowl. Roethlisberger was well below par if not shockingly awful in your formula as I’m sure Grossman and Manning also were. So should it really be cause for concern that a guy had a year most people consider to be excellent by typical standards of measuring QB’s was barely average by your standards? A QB can and has had plain awful seasons by your tweaked method and still started for teams that made it to the Super Bowl.
Everybody knows turnovers are bad. Without even giving a QB credit for a positive turnover margin, is your refined formula really telling us anything we didn’t already know? In other words, if a QB has a season that’s considered very good otherwise (36 TD’s, 4,000 yards, plus-17 TD/INT ratio and plus-15 TD/turnover ratio) by conventional standards but just doesn’t pass mustard as being exceptional or even good by your refined method; does that decrease his team’s chances of making the Super Bowl?
I don’t know how long the trend will last but in the league’s current state it just seems like it’s more important when a QB gets hot than it is him being consistent.
by MadMick on Jan 26, 2009 9:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
thats because the rest of the offense regressed as well
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 22, 2009 10:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not Really
Rushing yards were about the same, with a higher yards per attempt average than last year. The regression was really in the passing game.
by kindablue on Jan 22, 2009 5:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so OL and WRs aren't part of the passing game?
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 23, 2009 8:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not Relevant to the Discussion
You claimed the “rest of the offense” also regressed.
I gave an obvious example that shows your statement was not true.
You reply did not address, much less contradict my claim.
by kindablue on Jan 25, 2009 10:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Personally
I could see this happening, Tony got over confident, and started to get to complacent. I am sure this was a humbling season for Tony and JG. I think we see a new level of urgency from both next year.
This really isn’t suprising in the least. I know I hated to see Romo come back to sideline and JG not get in his sh!t. We need an increased level of accountablity.
"Protect the Romo, Save the Cowboys!!"
by Wmillion on Jan 20, 2009 2:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
+1000 Right on
but I have this question. Why on earth does Tony get overconfident? There is no reason to get overconfident when the team hasn’t won a playoff game in 12 years. I hope you are right about the level of urgency we should see next year
by Burt88 on Jan 21, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Same reason
Edge(btw did anyone read that ESPN the magazine article?) did in Indy, you are putting up All-Pro stats and the media is getting in your head about how good you are.. It happens to a lot of players. NFL humbles every player, the players and coaches are just to good to not work on improving every year.
"Protect the Romo, Save the Cowboys!!"
by Wmillion on Jan 21, 2009 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Romo has to prove himself this year
or he very well may be gone. No one should be exempt. This just backs everything I thought about Romo. He’s no Peyton Manning or Tom Brady in the way he prepares and studies for games.
by bryangene on Jan 20, 2009 3:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The Wheels are Coming Off for Romo
There will be calls for his head next year, not unlike the ones for McNabb, and when Romo falters (for whatever reason), he will be lambasted and the already fragile foundation of his confdence will crumble.
Dallas may well implode in 2009 and be forced to draft a QB #1 in the following draft.
"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
by 5Blings on Jan 20, 2009 3:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Maybe we should have kept that Bady Quinn pick
by Martin79 on Jan 20, 2009 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you're going to playing this little regret game how about passing up that Aaron Rodgers kid?
After all he was more highly rated in the ‘05 draft than Quinn was rated in his respective draft and the Cowboys had not one but two shots at him. Also at the time that old rustbucket Bledslow was the only proven arm on the staff and even in a best case scenario Jerry and Tuna knew he wasn’t the long-term answer at the position.
Rodgers in ‘05 would’ve made a lot more sense than picking Quinn in ’07 when they already had a young Pro Bowl QB already on the roster. At least learn to fret over the right missed opportunity.
by MadMick on Jan 20, 2009 6:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
First of all it was a half hearted joke
The other serious half is , Dallas drafted Brady Quinn with the 22nd pick of the ‘06 draft and traded him to Cleveland for future draft picks. Secondly, competition is good and healthy. It would keep him sharp and I don’t mean to the point of looking over his shoulder. Quinn would’ve also proven to be trade-bait for something you really need, say a safety or left guard. In no way am I saying I’d rather have Quinn than Romo.
by Martin79 on Jan 20, 2009 8:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
22nd pick of the '07 draft is what it should read
by Martin79 on Jan 20, 2009 8:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure what your point is about Dallas technically drafting Quinn....
…..Which I’m fairly certain they didn’t. I guess the point you’re reaching for is that Quinn was (however) briefly actually a Cowboy which would validate your point by inferring that Jerry DIDN’T pass up Quinn and only traded him when the opportunity came along to pick up an extra 1st-rounder. That simply isn’t the case. The Commish at no point came to the podium and stated with the 22nd pick the Cowboys select Brady Quinn. It didn’t go down like that.
My main problem with drafting Quinn is that you don’t get Felix Jones if you draft him. Now for all we know Felix could be injury-prone throughout his whole career and Quinn could win a couple of Super Bowls. But if Felix can stay on the field he’s a true game-changing back. I’d rather have him than a luxury like a young promising QB whose only immediate contribution would be “pushing Romo.”
You’re not even wrong in thinking that Quinn will go on to have a better career than Romo. Who knows? My point was why draft an unnecessary luxury when you already have a Pro Bowl calibre QB on your roster who you think will be your guy for the next 5-6 years? I believe the fact that the pick the Cowboys netted (by passing on Quinn) ended up being a player as explosive as Felix is all the vindication Jerry needs.
by MadMick on Jan 20, 2009 9:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry to tell you YOU ARE WRONG, Dallas worked the deal
with Cleveland before Dallas’ pick at 22 of the first round. They then traded with Philly to take Anthony Spencer at the 26 spot of the first round. I just googled it and confirmed exactly what I said . Google"2007 Nfl Draft" (is where I found it ) I completely agree with you about Felix, He is Special and a very bright spot to look forward to for a long time. But don’t take the first post so seriously it was a joke
by Martin79 on Jan 20, 2009 9:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I want you to know that I am more than" Faily certain" with what I wrote
The Commish walked his ass down and said " With the 22nd Pick of the 2007 draft the Dallas Cowboys select Brady Quinn, QB, University of Notre Dame" and then He announced the Cleveland trade. I watched with my own eyes but to make sure I prove you wrong after implying this was a lie of some sort. I GOOGLED IT AND YOU ARE DEAD WRONG but thanks for the inflection and conjecture on what you thought might of or could have and being so fairly certain to , how sure you might be and the whole time implying that I’m wrong. LOOK something up before you try to pass it off as truths!!!!
by Martin79 on Jan 20, 2009 9:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And yet I still don't know what your point is.
Actually you prove my point; Dallas had the deal with Cleveland worked well ahead of their pick at 22. So I don’t even know what the significance of Dallas technically picking Brady Quinn if their plan was to pick him just to trade him to Cleveland all along.
So my point which was that Dallas never planned to keep Quinn still stands whether they technically drafted him or not which according to nfl.com they didn’t.
By the way, I searched YouTube and found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shiem3YRKFk
I guess it was doctored.
At any rate, you never even revealed what your point was about Dallas SELECTING Brady Quinn.
by MadMick on Jan 20, 2009 10:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's try again and this time read the whole reply
It was a half-hearted joke to begin with, that’s all. The Cowboys DID draft Quinn and trade him within the 15 minutes of alotted time. I gave you what to google an of course you go you tube and they only show where he wound up after the trade. Just look it up and I assure you and would bet my paycheck that this happened. Or don’t believe it who cares now anyway.Anyone who watches the draft would tell you I’m right. Sorry if that information juggernot You Tube didn’t show the trade as I’m sure they don’t have any trades from the draft. MOST OF ALL——KEEPING QUINN WAS A JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Martin79 on Jan 21, 2009 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dallas' point was they didn't feel they needed anyone in the first round
and felt deep at every position and they were wrong.They did end up with two first round picks in 2008 Draft though. Which brings me to this. Look up the 2008 draft and see where that extra pick came from to get Felix Jones or do you think Goodell just said “Have Two Jerry”?
by Martin79 on Jan 21, 2009 4:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So now I'm not aware that Dallas had two extra picks in '08 because they traded their 1st away in '07.
Well, let’s see. I specifically brought up the point in an earlier response to you in this very thread that if the Cowboys had selected Quinn they wouldn’t have netted the extra pick that got them Felix.
by MadMick on Jan 22, 2009 9:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess you're too "impaired" to turn your speakers on.
Becausethe clip shows the Commish saying “the Browns select Brady Quinn.” If the Cowboys had already selected Quinn and traded him directly to the Browns, the clip I linked to wouldn’t exist because the Browns wouldn’t have had to select Brady Quinn. If you’re going to troll over something this trivial in other topics on the board, at least provide video evidence.
by MadMick on Jan 22, 2009 9:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dallas traded it's first round pick to Cleveland prior to Cleveland selecting Quinn on their own..
I saw it live ….case closed
by CowboysRnumba1 on Jan 25, 2009 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This dude needs sedative,prozac or something
He wants to force me to believe the Cowboys did not have the Quinn pick, so I provide a link to show him and still he comes back with You Tube crap like that’s some kind of factorial institution that includes everything leading up to the clip and it doesn’t. The one one thing I know is you cannot reason with the unreasonable nor is ignorance an excuse for anything. So go You Tube some more almost facts instead of looking them up. It’s brainiacs like this that make blogs bad.
by Martin79 on Jan 25, 2009 4:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Cowboys wouldn't have drafted Brady Quinn even if they kept the pick.
They had 3 or 4 players they would’ve liked to have taken at the spot that came off the board between 15-20 and if they couldn’t have garnered any extra picks they would’ve just taken Spencer at the 22nd spot. Whether you were joking or not really doesn’t matter because enough people have seriously suggested they should’ve kept Quinn that I felt it needed to be pointed out they could’ve just as easily taken Rodgers in ’05.
As for your other nonsense:
A direct quote from your first response to me:
"The other serious half is , Dallas drafted Brady Quinn with the 22nd pick of the ‘06 draft and traded him to Cleveland for future draft picks. "
Which I never understood in the first place what that had to with my original post. But whatever.
by MadMick on Jan 25, 2009 8:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How could they have keopt Quinn??
When according to you they NEVER drafted him. What other people said has no bearing on what I wrote. Competition is good , even for Romo and it doesn’t have to be Quinn but it does need to be someone who can challenge him for the job. It would keep him on his toes was the other half serious implied part. You only took what you wanted from what was written and ran off on some rant and in turn tried to make me look like a liar and that is not appreciated. So leave it alone and we’ll go on agreeing to disagree.
by Martin79 on Jan 26, 2009 4:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They never drafted him and more importantly never intended to draft him.
Or at least that’s always been my understanding.
I agree competition is good but I’m going to have to disagree that they necessarily needed to spend the pick on Quinn. In fact, in that very same offseason they signed undrafted free agent Matt Moore who the jack@ss head honchoes decided it was a good decision to cut loose even though he ended up looking fairly good as a rookie in a couple of starts for the Panthers; in fact he looked a hell of a lot better than former top overall pick David Carr looked for the Panthers.
Maybe Moore could’ve been developed into a viable alternative to Romo or at least a guy he would feel breathing down his neck. Also there is a bigger point with Moore; he is undrafted.
As it turns out in this decade out of 13 different QB’s to start in the Super Bowl, 7 were 1st Round picks but 5 were actually picked in the 6th Round or later. You simply don’t have to pick a guy as high as Quinn to provide viable competition for Romo.
by MadMick on Jan 26, 2009 6:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just to sum up ya'll argument...
YouTube is a completely valid source of information when it’s indisputable video evidence of the BROWNS (not the Cowboys) drafting Quinn after trading with Dallas. I got sick of reading the back-and-forth, but one said we drafted him then traded, one said we should’ve kept them, yada yada yada…The Browns are my number two team, so I can tell you they definitely traded with us just before drafting Quinn. Quinn will go down as a Browns draft pick, just like Eli by the Chargers…
by AikmanNailedMySis on Jan 27, 2009 9:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably more my fault you had to wade through this nonsense.
I only revived the whole silly thing about who technically drafted Quinn because Martin felt the need to troll another topic/fanpost with this junk.
Let’s recap:
After my very first response to him, he seems to be trying to correct me about the Cowboys "picking" Quinn at 22 because I guess he’s trying to somehow invalidate my comparison between passing on Aaron Rodgers and passing on Brady Quinn by suggesting the Cowboys were seriously considering drafting Quinn just because Mel Kiper got inside his head. In my first reply to him, I didn’t even bring up the fact that the Cowboys traded the 22nd pick to the Browns and not "the Quinn pick" as he constantly refers to it.
Honestly, I never really understood what his point was about Dallas "drafting" Quinn but I should’ve just used your example of the Chargers drafting Eli. The Chargers actually badly wanted Eli and were still determined to try to pick him even after Papa Manning’s power play. Then when they finally realized it would be a big mess trying to sign him they decided they were at least going to get something in return if the little snot-nosed punk and his papa were determined he wasn’t going to be a Charger. On the other hand, you have the Cowboys at the opposite end of the spectrum who never planned to draft Quinn anymore than they planned to draft Anthony Quinn, Martha Quinn or Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman; thus they traded the 22nd pick to the Browns and not "the Quinn pick" as Martin refers to it.
As for the rest of this mess, at some point after Martin watched the YouTube video, he changed things up and then accused me of not even knowing the Cowboys traded the 22nd pick even though I had specifically brought up the fact that the Cowboys wouldn’t have had Felix Jones if they stayed at 22 and picked Quinn; well, actually they would’ve just picked Spencer if they stayed at 22 but good luck trying to communicate that to this guy.
As I alluded to earlier, I blame BSPN for this whole misunderstanding. Now I’m truly beginning to understand just how powerful BSPN’s power of suggestion can be. Just because some self-proclaimed guru says the Cowboys have to take a player, it means they were seriously considering drafting him whether they actually were or not.
by MadMick on Jan 27, 2009 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Your recap needs a recap
You should go back and literally read what was written and stop assuming the next line. I never recanted what I said in any shape, form or fashion. The ‘07 draft was almost a major mishap in the first round for the Cowboys because time had actually lapsed for the 22nd pick while Jerry tried to work the trade with Cleveland for that pick.So, the Cowboys were forced to pick Quinn (or lose the 22nd pick )and then trade him and the Commish allowed the events to happen. I KNOW this to be true because I actually watched it . I didn’t get the highlights two years later off of You Tube. The part that you keep saying you don’t understand is, The Joke of keeping Quinn. No you DO NOT understand because it was not intended to be taken seriously. I typed this very slowly in hopes that you could finally,finally follow along.
by Martin79 on Jan 27, 2009 6:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you watched the draft
you would have seen time actually run out for the Cowboys as they tried to negotiate the trade. So with no other option the Cowboys took Quinn and traded him in one fell swoop to the Browns.This is what transpired and you will NOT see this on You Tube so I have to disagree with your assessment that you got all of that from a 15 second clip, That’s something you would know if you had watched the ’07 draft and I did. Your Valid Source of Information,You Tube only gives you a glimpse and as written by me before,it DOES NOT tell the whole story. Please feel free to look it up and try to prove me wrong. The Cowboys did draft Quinn if only to keep from losing thier pick and finishing the trade with the Browns .Period!
by Martin79 on Jan 27, 2009 6:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What you didn't see
was time actually ran out on the 22nd pick for the Cowboys because they were negotiating a trade with Cleveland for thier pick. So with no options and just seconds they selected Quinn and then traded him to Cleveland in one fell swoop. Had you watched the draft you would already known this. I did watch this transpire and the Commish allowed the Cowboys the luxury with no time on the clock. As for You Tube and the 15 second clip of the final result, I would say that alone shoots holes all through the idea of You TUBE being a"valid source of information" as they only provide a glimpse of what transpired NOT the whole story. Please look it up and try to prove me wrong. These were the events as they happened. Please ask around to some people that WATCHED the’07 first round and you’ll soon find that I AM RIGHT!!!!
by Martin79 on Jan 27, 2009 7:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Personally, I would have drafted Aaron Rodgers in that years draft...I was begging for it at the time.
He was the best QB in that draft, and should have been chosen #1 overall…San Fran blew it.
by CowboysRnumba1 on Jan 20, 2009 11:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, like I said he would've been better value in his draft than Quinn.
It was considered a virtual toss-up between him and Smith as to who would be the overall pick that year. On the other hand, it was pretty unanimous in the ’07 draft that Russell was going to be the first QB taken.
Of course, I guess it wouldn’t have concerned Tuna at all drafting the QB of the future since his big bloated butt knew he wasn’t going to be there long enough to reap the benefits of developing a young QB.
by MadMick on Jan 20, 2009 11:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, Tuna had to have "his guy" Marcus Spears, cuz JJ bumped him off taking Spears at #11
At that point in time we had a statute named Bledsoe, in the twilight of his career, and were in prime position to grab a franchise type QB,to groom for the future, A guy for which I know was rated higher on their overall team draft big board than that load of crap from LSU Spears…….I was begging the TV to draft Rodgers that day…..no go..
by CowboysRnumba1 on Jan 20, 2009 11:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
thats laughable and complete BS
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 20, 2009 3:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How is it laughable BS?
I’m not saying he played awful, but his performance has been nothing to defend this season. He’s the harbinger of doom for bad defenses, and crumbles when he faces a D that isn’t mediocre.
I’m not saying Romo can’t be great, but he’s certainly not there yet. There’s nothing to defend at the moment. People are calling him out. Instead of making excuses for him, maybe you, like most, should be hoping he straightens up, and actually performs up to his potential.
by the red scare on Jan 20, 2009 3:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Romo will be fine..I have no doubt about that
I’m not going to throw him under the bus like everyone else…thats something Eagles fans do.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 20, 2009 3:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Romo has the potential to be great
I would love to see a new position coach for him. Wade Wilson is not doing it. He needs someone who knows how to get the most out of his strengths and mobility.
by Martin79 on Jan 20, 2009 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cowboys fans are true to their team
not an individual.
by bryangene on Jan 20, 2009 3:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 21, 2009 1:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So Romo doesn't need to improve?
If he continues to play the way he has been, you’re fine with that?
Look, I’m not saying Romo isn’t good. He’s better than a lot of players who are highly overrated, such as Roethlisberger(sp?), Eli, etc. That doesn’t mean he’s flawless, and doesn’t need great improvements to take the team to the next level. He plays in an offense that relies completely on him. If he doesn’t improve, it doesn’t matter what players they put around him, the team will continue to be mediocre.
So, if the reports are true, it’s very disturbing. If not, maybe there’s hope that he knows he must improve.
by the red scare on Jan 20, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
So Romo is better than both of those quarterbacks, Eli and Ben, three SB appearances between the two of them and they each have a ring?
You would like to believe Romo is better than they are and I would like to show a ring or two to prove your point.
by cow_fanatic on Jan 20, 2009 4:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure Romo
Would trade his defense for Bens D any day, and if the boys D played consistently like the Giants D did in last years playoff run he would have an appearance by now. Also you have to take into account Eli, and Ben have 5 years of starting under their belt, where as Romo has 2 1/2.
by NDCowboy8 on Jan 20, 2009 5:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The QB position isn't as simple to evaluate as "X has a ring and Y don't so X is better. Na na na boo boo."
Just throwing that out there.
All one has to do is step back and look at the long strange trip Kurt Warner took on the way to his 3rd Super Bowl appearance. It was all steak and gravy in his first three years as a starter when he was 35-8 and started two Super Bowls winning one in his very first year as a starter. His next six seasons; well, they were about as quality as a salisbury steak and gravy TV Dinner.
No playoff appearances and a beyond subpar 13-29 record as a starter. Now sevens seasons after his last Super Bowl appearance, Warner is back at the show and win or lose people are ready to start chiseling his bust for Canton. Funny how stuff works out some times.
All I’m saying is the book has yet to be written on Eli, Ben, or Romo.
by MadMick on Jan 20, 2009 6:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
You don;t grade QBs solely on SB rings but to say Romo is better than either one of thoese two QBs is irresponsible. I wouldn’t trade Romo for Eli right now because Eli’s ring was a fluke but you have to to provide some evidence at some point to back your argument Romo is better than either one of them.
by cow_fanatic on Jan 20, 2009 7:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude I love salisbury steak and gravy tv dinners...
by AikmanNailedMySis on Jan 20, 2009 9:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I'll admit they ain't half bad when you're jammed for time and effort.
Just pulling any old analogy out of me buttocks.
Hell, put it this way; salisbury steak is surely a more satisfying substitute for a ribeye than Brenda Warner is for an actual pretty young lady. But then again, this is Warner’s third trip to the mecca. Maybe Romo needs to be scoping out all the local salons for some old butch priss.
by MadMick on Jan 20, 2009 9:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Butch Priss?
Did you see her with the long hair after the game? Not too shabby if you ask me.
by Doomsday on Jan 21, 2009 5:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
hahahaha
I love this website…
by AikmanNailedMySis on Jan 21, 2009 6:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh
Yes, they have rings. They had good teams around them. Big Ben and Eli have never had as much asked of them as Romo. That was my only point.
But, for the sake of argument, does that mean Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer are also better QBs? They both have rings…
I wasn’t saying Romo is great. He isn’t there yet. He needs to make a LOT of improvement to be at that level. But the media LOVES Big Ben and Eli, and they aren’t at Romo’s level, IMHO. Those guys aren’t expected to do much of anything besides not turn the ball over. Neither of them will ever lead the kind of offense Romo is expected to.
by the red scare on Jan 20, 2009 10:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Romo couldn't meet those expectations.
The season that the Buccaneers won the SB, Brad Johnson was absolutely better than Romo has been so far.
I would take a guy who just doesn’t turn the ball over at this point. In the Cowboys last 3 losses, Romo turned it over 9 times. They only won 2 games where he turned it over more than once, PHI and CIN, and those were both ugly. He may be superior to most at the big plays and improvisation, but until he improves that aspect of his game, it will be extremely difficult for the Cowboys to improve with him as QB. Part of it is play calling, but the QB is equally at fault for not protecting the ball.
Roethlisberger turns the ball over too, and just like Romo, his team usually loses when he does. In all of their losses, he turned the ball over more than once, 14 times in 4 games. He never had more than 1 turnover in any of their wins.
I think it’s pretty clear that that is the area of Romo’s game that needs the most work, so to knock other guys that are winning games and not turning the ball over doesn’t make sense to me. If Romo could get down to 1 turnover a game, I think that the Cowboys get at least 12 wins next year. The coaches have to help him out by not calling 45 passes a game, but he has to improve at protecting the ball.
by Baked Potato Soup on Jan 21, 2009 8:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
a qb who just doesn't turn the ball over
isn’t going to help you win a SB, you need playmakers to win championships or truly elite defenses, which we don’t have.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 21, 2009 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Cowboys don't have playmakers?
Terrell Owens, Jason Witten, Roy Williams, Marion Barber, Tashard Choice, and Felix Jones are all playmakers. Miles Austin appears to be a playmaker. The defense may not be elite, but it was very good once Wade took over calling the plays.
I still don’t understand why Romo is the only quarterback in the league that has to either make plays or protect the ball. Why can’t he do both?
by Baked Potato Soup on Jan 21, 2009 6:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Like trying to reason with a chair, isn't it?
In-YOUR-endo
by accidental innuendo on Jan 21, 2009 6:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Chairs are moe reasonable...
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 21, 2009 8:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 21, 2009 8:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lol....so entertaining
lmao…no play makers ?…Romo can just basically throw to check downs all game, amass 250 yards, have no turnovers, and win games, but he’s just not satisfied doing that. It’s called poise, and appearantly, he doesn’t have it. Just take what the defense gives you….If Romo learns that, we’ll be back in business.
He’s gotta make the hightlight reel with his wounded ducks 45 yards downfield into double coverage on 2nd and 1…hence the 2/3 turnovers per game.
by CowboysRnumba1 on Jan 21, 2009 10:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I meant at QB, your qb has to be a playmaker
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 22, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But you have repeatedly said Big Ben is an overrated game manager.
And his team is in the SB
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 22, 2009 4:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
no I haven't
you’re mistaking me with someone else. Yes, he’s overrated, but he’s not a game manager, he’s a playmaker like Romo.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 23, 2009 8:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They'll draft a QB this year..
you’ll see…top 4 rounds too.
by CowboysRnumba1 on Jan 20, 2009 11:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How good does Todd Haley look now
would’ve liked for him to stay and help Romo develop.
by Martin79 on Jan 20, 2009 4:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
+1
His play calling was genius. The way we’ve played against the Eagles the last three Decembers, you would think they had 20 guys on the field playing defense against. Haley showed what happened when you mix up the playbook, run misdirections and quick screens against them. The Eagles looked totally confused and passive.
It would be great if we got some of that on our team.
by kindablue on Jan 20, 2009 4:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I gotta say
If Romo’s practice habits were so bad why didn’t it surface during the season? And why is it surfacing now? Personally I saw him in training camp for the first time and he looked very focused. Sure things could change during the year but I doubt to this extreme. Also for Romo’s decline in play this year you need to take into account, that he played with a broken throwing pinky for three games, he played with a bad back the last 2 1/2 games, the offensive line was not playing at nearly the level they were the year before. Yes he has to take some blame for this but it you don’t think bad play from an o-line doesn’t effect the QB just look at the way Tom Brady played in last years superbowl as opposed to his regular season play.
by NDCowboy8 on Jan 20, 2009 5:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he works hard
but not smart.
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 20, 2009 5:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Has anyone ever seen Tony Romo and Terry at the same place at the same time?
I kid, I kid.
IF YOU'RE LOOKIN FOR ME...I'M AT THE SCRIP CLUB WITH PACMAN......AND WE'RE BEING REBELLION!!
by Carl Shelton (GloryDayz88) on Jan 20, 2009 5:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Not since
the restraining order came through.
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 20, 2009 5:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Terry IS Tony Romo!
IF YOU'RE LOOKIN FOR ME...I'M AT THE SCRIP CLUB WITH PACMAN......AND WE'RE BEING REBELLION!!
by Carl Shelton (GloryDayz88) on Jan 20, 2009 9:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or his mum
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 21, 2009 1:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nah...Terry is not Romo
I am convinced Terry is the smartest guy on this blog. He really just likes Romo and does not love him like he lets on. He is just manipulating the strings. He probably spreads his completely over the top comments and then just sits back and laughs at the responses.
Terry, I take my hat off to you – you have fooled us all. After all, nobody could be so completely irrational and incapable of expressing a legitimate thought about a player that has as many faults as Tony Romeo. You take the cake Terry – congratulations on the 2+ year farse. Your the bomb.
Long Live Teague - the defender of the STAR
by ibleed blue on Jan 20, 2009 10:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't like this
I feel like i’ve seen a few sources now questioning romo’s practice habits.
Romo is naturally a gunslinger.Parcells ALWAYS talked about the need to stay on top of him and keep him grounded, and that has just not happened under wade. I frankly don’t think it has anything to do with being a “celebrity qb”, i think its the way romo’s been all his life.
I think its absolutely ridiculous to be talking about finding romo’s replacement right now, but there are some bad signs. We need a qb coach who will get in his face. He is still as talented as a year ago, and i personally think some of his performance issues had to do with injury, but he has to improve.
by foyesboys on Jan 20, 2009 11:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
All you had to do was watch how the OLine reacted when Romo was sacked
during the last quarter of the season to know something was going on.
He may still pull it together, but he’s gotta drop the Frat Boy act and start acting like a man, as in over 20.
He needs to earn back the respect of his teammates.
I don’t know about the practice comments (who does?) but you naysayers need to learn that smoke = fire.
It may be more that his ’aw-shucks- goofy-grinned act is wearing thin with a bunch of 30 year old men.
I think most of us would be sick of him by now.
He’s the guy you’d think is cool the first few weeks of the reality show, but then you’d ally with some others and vote him off, you know?
Sorry, don’t know where that came from, but you get my point!
by Realist Larry on Jan 21, 2009 12:18 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
What was the o-line's reaction to ROmo being sacked?
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 21, 2009 1:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I noticed the OL reaction on several occasions....
Kinda like “The Longest Yard” when Adam Sandler (QB) was throwing the game for selfish reasons, then decided to come back in to win the game, The O Line deliberately let the D rush come in and crush him like 3-6 straight plays, to show their distaste and lack of respect for the guy….
by CowboysRnumba1 on Jan 21, 2009 6:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
standing around and noto ffering a hand.
by Realist Larry on Jan 22, 2009 12:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I didnt notice that,
but if its true it speaks volumes for the comerarderie, or lack there of on this team
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 22, 2009 12:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone remember Romo in Camp?
In the Pics I saw he had the beer gut of a Fantasy FB manager. That didn’t look like any “Gym Rat” I ever saw and signaled the lack of discipline we’ve seen from him since BP made his exit.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. BP saw what he had in Tony R and the Seattle game made his decision simple. This kid has talent but cannot mature fast enough to take advantage of it. It happens. His legs won’t be able to carry him through another couple of seasons of medicority before it’s time to look for broadcasting jobs. By then he’s not the media darling and on his 3rd team looking for a starting gig.
by Doomsday on Jan 21, 2009 5:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, qb rating of 94 over 3 seasons is sure mediocre
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 21, 2009 6:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good link that I haven't seen posted...
Aikman on Irvin’s radio show talking about our “season.” And yes, from now on I’ll be referring to this season as this “season”…
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfceast/0-7-174/Aikman-s-take-on-the-Cowboys.html
by AikmanNailedMySis on Jan 21, 2009 7:26 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Nice. Here's a link for those that don't want an audio file:
http://blogs.usatoday.com/thehuddle/2009/01/aikman-to-romo.html#uslPageReturn
It doesn’t have the full transcript, but has a few quotes. Unfortunately, I don’t think Romo is the type that is willing to listen to criticism and try to improve. He’ll just blow it off with another “football isn’t everything” type quote.
by Baked Potato Soup on Jan 21, 2009 8:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and by the way, Micheal Irvin absolutely loves his some "Roy"
I know that’s obvious but the hero’s welcome that the radio station gave Troy was nothing short of hilarious haha
by AikmanNailedMySis on Jan 21, 2009 9:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wow interesting article
this is what jumped out at me
“I think maybe things happened so quickly for Tony in terms of obscurity to all of a sudden national spotlight that he hasn’t fully grasped what being the Cowboys quarterback is all about,” Aikman said to Irvin. “And you don’t go to Cabo the week before a playoff game. You just don’t do it.
"It didn’t take away from his preparations. I know that. I mean, everything he says is I think accurate. I don’t think that had any bearing.
"But to say, ‘I don’t worry about perception,’ you better worry about perception, because it’s a big part of making it through some very difficult times.”
That perfectly sums up my thoughts on the matter.
by 325424 on Jan 21, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When he says that first quote about not going to Cabo...
The entire station erupts in cheers haha. Seriously though, why is it so hard for this organization to see what’s so blatantly wrong with this team. We’re only doing it to ourselves…
by AikmanNailedMySis on Jan 22, 2009 7:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When he says that first quote about not going to Cabo...
The entire station erupts in cheers haha. Seriously though, why is it so hard for this organization to see what’s so blatantly wrong with this team. We’re only doing it to ourselves…
by AikmanNailedMySis on Jan 22, 2009 7:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll give the guy another year or two...
Other than Quincy Carter we had some real duds at qb over the past ten years or so.
by Mojoness on Jan 21, 2009 9:02 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
IF
JG can get the run game into the top 10 instead of in the mid 20’s, Romo would be a much better player. With Barber Felix and TC that should be the plan. release TO so he doesn’t whine when the play calling is 60-40, and also use screens and short passes much like NE of ‘07 to keep teams guessing. How many short passes could felix or even TC take to the house? Romo would benefit from that. I’m not saying he needs to be a game manager b/c I think his physical skills are far too impressive for that, but he needs to let the game come to him and only go for the big play when it’s there. A solid running game would go a long way to make this a reality.
Texas Stadium has a hole in the roof so God can watch his favorite team play football.
by iCowboy on Jan 21, 2009 8:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Romo shouldnt need a great running game if he is as good as many claim he is.
Look at Manning in Indy or Warner in Zona.
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 21, 2009 8:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Romo is no Peyton or Warner...I can tell you that much.
Romo NEEDS a running game big time. Time to pull in the reigns….and make him a manager….He’s best on roll outs coming off of play action…no running game means no play action..and that was our biggest problem this year..
by CowboysRnumba1 on Jan 21, 2009 11:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Kurt Warner and Peyton have been coached up..
It is time for our coaching staff to coach up Romo.. Romo isn’t free of criticism, but there definitely something to be said about quality coaching.
"Protect the Romo, Save the Cowboys!!"
by Wmillion on Jan 21, 2009 11:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
make him a manager..thats hysterical, absolutely hysterical
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 22, 2009 10:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so hysterical that the same philosophy won Eli a super bowl MVP...
by AikmanNailedMySis on Jan 22, 2009 11:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Eli has a SB ring, and Romo is a choking loser, and any comparison between the two is, franky, laughable.
In-YOUR-endo
by accidental innuendo on Jan 22, 2009 3:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
I hate the “so-and-so has a ring and this guy doesn’t, meaning so-and-so is better” point. A handful of bad quarterbacks that aren’t as good as Romo have either made it to the Superbowl, or won it. Doesn’t really mean much. Is Eli then better than Marino? Does that make Big Ben, Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, etc. better than Romo?
The Big Ben or Eil over Romo debate is completely pointless, and unfortunately until Romo wins a SB(not saying he will, I’m not as big of a fan of the guy as it may sound), he’ll always be compared negatively to the two.
by the red scare on Jan 22, 2009 10:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was making a harsh point
But you bring up something worthwhile: does the number of rings tell the whole story? The answer is obviously no, especially comparing players across eras.
But I think it’s a valid comparison between players like Romo, little Manning and Roethlisberger because their rings or lack thereof correlate to their success when it counts. Forget the NFL, has Romo won ever a playoff game? No — this is his fourth straight year losing a must-win game going back to college.
No matter what you say about Dilfer, he will be remembered as a SB-winning quarterback.
So you’re right. The Big Ben or Eli over Romo debate is completely pointless because there is no defense for Romo. He remains a loser.
In-YOUR-endo
by accidental innuendo on Jan 23, 2009 9:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And worse than that
He remains a loser that seems okay with it.
In-YOUR-endo
by accidental innuendo on Jan 23, 2009 9:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough, I suppose
I still think Romo has more raw talent than Eli or Big Ben, he just doesn’t have the rings to prove it. I think there are a few things he has to improve in his game in order to be a Superbowl winning QB with this team, however.
Big Ben, Eli, Dilfer all had better teams around them, and week to week were asked to do much less than Romo. That said, it might not be any different if Romo were the QB in Pittsburgh, NY, or Baltimore, but there’s no way to know for sure.
by the red scare on Jan 23, 2009 9:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Romo does better with a running game and also
when he releases quickly and hits the open guy, whoever it is.
EVERY QB has to have that running game, except maybe Manning #1.
The other part is partly Garrett’s fault, partly Romo’s, and partly the WR’s for whining so much.
Oh, and the OLine’s too.
by Realist Larry on Jan 22, 2009 12:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
does this sound like celebrity to you?
Romo is a fan of sports history. He’ll read books to learn what makes somebody great and incorporate that into what he does.
He has been known to show up at Valley Ranch by himself and throw passes into nets. He used to call assistant coach David Lee to catch those passes, and Lee’s hands hurt so bad he had to start wearing gloves.
On Tuesdays, the players’ off day, Romo is with offensive coordinator Jason Garrett going over the game plan.
Is Romo perfect? No. Are there things he needs to learn? Yes.
But does he care? Absolutely.
/www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/football/cowboys/stories/012309dnspoarcher.1c13c9ff.html
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 23, 2009 10:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
This is what I took from that article...
Leadership is demanding more of yourself and your teammates for the greater good.
That’s where Romo can do more.
by AikmanNailedMySis on Jan 23, 2009 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Practice are we talking about Practice?
Not a game!
But Practice!
A.I. would have blast with this post
by rioplayer7 on Jan 25, 2009 5:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
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