What's a Blue-Chip Safety Worth?
by Rafael Vela on Jan 22, 2009 5:00 AM CST
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PrintHere are two elite defenses. Can you guess who they are?
| Team | Pts. | Rank |
Yards. | Rank. | Rush Rk. | Pass Rk. | Pass TDs -Rk. |
| Team A |
260 |
2nd | 4056 | 1st | 3rd | 1st | 18 - 9th |
| Team B |
244 | 3rd | 4177 | 2nd | 3rd | 2nd | 17 - 7th |
Their stat lines are very similar. They were tough against the run and even tougher against the pass. Neither had a devastating rush. The sack leader on each squad had eight.
Give up? Team A is the 2003 Dallas Cowboys, Big Bill Parcells' first. Team B is this year's Baltimore Ravens, Both were quarterbacked by blue- chip safeties: Dallas by the aging but still superb Darren Woodson; Baltimore by the outstanding Ed Reed.
What's a player like Woodson or Reed worth? The Cowboys offer a clear case study. The defense returned almost intact the following year. '03 right end Ebenezer Ekuban and his 2.5 sacks were replaced by Marcellus Wiley, who contributed 3.0. Leonardo Carson replaced Willie Blade at one DT position. In the secondary, Lance Frazier took over for Mario Edwards.
None of these '03 starters and their '04 replacements are household names, because none were difference makers. Dallas kept most of those on the field. Greg Ellis started 16 games both years, as did La'Roi Glover. Dat Nguyen and Dexter Coakley played full seasons at linebacker and then-youngsters Terence Newman and Roy Williams played every game in the secondary.
The one major loss came that summer, when SS Darren Woodson suffered a career-ending back injury. Woodson was 34 at the time. He had posted just one interception and one sack the year before. You would think the Cowboys could have maintained a level of performance close to their '03 peak. Think again:
| Team | Pts. | Rank |
Yards. | Rank. | Rush Rk. | Pass Rk. | Pass TDs -Rk. |
| Dallas '03 |
260 |
2nd | 4056 | 1st | 3rd | 1st | 18 - 9th |
| Dallas '04 |
405 | 27th | 5285 | 16th | 10th | 21st | 31 - 29th |
The pass defense completely collapsed with Tony Dixon subbing for Woodson. Opponents' pass-per-attempt average jumped from a league-best 5.0 in '03 to 6.6 in '04. The touchdown passes allowed almost doubled. Dallas had tied for third in 3rd-down percentage in 2003. The following year, the Cowboys dropped to 22nd.
On a team with a weak pass rush, intelligent coverage made the difference. Woodson was no longer the player who frequently covered slot receivers in his prime, but he knew where to go and he got the rest of his unit in place. His last defense didn't allow big plays. Dixon's allowed them in bunches.
Think back to this past year's defense. Think of the big plays surrendered by poor safety play, of Stephen Jackson's big runs in the Rams loss. Think of all the yards the Seahawks TE John Carlson racked up on the Dallas safeties in the Thanksgiving Day game. Think of Dallas using Demarcus Ware in coverage against Baltimore's Todd Heap because the coaches didn't trust Keith Davis to cover him.
And of course, remember the double whiffs times two that Davis and Ken Hamlin had on the Ravens last two drives, which set Willis McGahee and LaRon McClain free for season-crushing TD runs.
Roy Williams probably would have stopped the Ravens runs. He was second on the '07 squad with 93 tackles. Davis, by comparison, finished seventh on this year's team with just 39. Williams only contributed nine when he was healthy.
Williams is an obvious upgrade, but if topping Keith Davis is the team's only goal, it is not serious about becoming a contender again. Do you think Roy L. could have covered Carlson or Heap any better? Or Chris Cooley or Brent Celek? Neither do I.
I've focused a lot of my early draft attention on guys like Louis Delmas and Rashard Johnson because I'm convinced that a quality safety can help this team improve more than any other player the Cowboys could obtain. I don't have to look at Troy Polamalu or Ed Reed for proof, though their examples are clear. All I have to do is remember the long, long walk in the desert the Cowboys defense has taken since number 28 retired.
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im sure this is how most cowboys fans feel
that our defense will never truly be “elite” without good safeties
sure, Ken is pretty good, but you could say he had a serious drop off in 08 from 07
and Pat Watkins/Keith Davis/Tra Battle did an ok job
Our fierce pass rush would hide the safety play, and we had Scandrick in slot at times which would hide it as well. But, in the Baltimore game i could feel they were going straight for Keith. I’ve noticed on a few plays especially in the Giants game that they had Ant Henry at FS and Ken Hamlin at SS in a Cover-2 Type of formation. I think that worked great and if no great safety comes our way this year through the draft or free agency this would be almost as good.
"Aw Shucks" - Wade Phillips
The question is... how come no one in the organization realizes the things we fans do
Fortunately, I think this postseason has played out exactly how the Cowboys needed it to. Maybe it’s just wishful thinking, but having the final four be teams that we lost to, in embarassing fashion, should remind the Cowboys of what they could have accomplished if they had taken care of business. The play of Larry Fitzgerald, hopefully, shows TO the things he has let slip in his game and inspires him to regain that effort in route running. The safety play of the final four has been amazing, and should show our brass what is missing from our defense. The ingenuity of the playcalling should inspire Garrett to mix it up a bit.
That is, assuming that all these factors aren’t walking around thinking ‘I did my part’.
'he nails an open three from the corner....just like you and me, this one was made by penetration' - Truthaboutit - Round 1 Game 5 Recap
I strongly
agree KDP. I just don’t think this Tiger is going to change its’ stripes. For all the talking and promises of more leadership, personal resposnibility, wah wawah wawah wah wahhh. I don’t see anything that is changing in Big D. My feelings for the Cowboys has gone from indifference to heart pounding excitement to indifferent in the span of 2 seasons. I was driving home from Christmas listening to the Philly game and I never cursed once. My wife was shocked to say the least. I should have wrecked the car judging from my past reactions to bad Cowboy losses.
When did I become a Cowboy fan? When my mom told me I was.
I miss Woody
Doubt if he’s a Hall of Famer, but he definitely deserves a spot in the Ring of Honor.
Ah, the 2003 defense. In retrospect it appears to be a bit overrated, or like fool’s gold. They only forced 25 turnovers (13 ints) and just 32 sacks, not really a game-changing defense. I guess in the end all that matters though is they gave up the 2nd least points in the league and the fewest yards, bless their hearts.
But they were exposed by the Panthers in the wildcard game, with first-year starter Jake Delhomme leading their offense to 29 points and 380 yards.
I have fond memories of 2003. The 35-32 MNF win over the Giants remains one of my favorite regular season Cowboy games ever. The season cemented Parcells’ status as a miracle worker. But maybe that defense was more a product of a relatively easy schedule and Parcells’ style of offense, which controlled the clock and ran 1025 plays, or 120 more than their opponents. I suppose it comes down to which came first? The ball control, close to the vest offense, or the defense that forced a lot of 3-and-outs.
He'll get some Hall consideration
It will take some time, because safeties have to wait forever. Look at Larry Wilson, who needed almost 30 years before he got in, but he and LeRoy Butler deserve to go from the ’90s.
by Rafael Vela on Jan 22, 2009 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
Steve Smith had his coming out party
at a rookie’s expense. T-new has shut him down pretty good in match ups ever since though
by AustonianAggie on Jan 22, 2009 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
Where does Anthony Henry fit in...
Hey Raf,
I agree with your assessment, but what if they move Anthony Henry to FS and ask him to be the QB of the secondary? I have a feeling that’s what their intentions are along with moving one of the young corners from this year’s draft into his spot at CB. It’ll be interesting to see what they do in the draft if they make that change.
Scott in Austin
Henry can't
stay healthy at corner. What is to make us think he can stay healthy at safety? He is getting older, and believe me it takes longer to heal the older you get. I don’t want him to be a great safety for 6 games then we get hammered at the end of the year.
When did I become a Cowboy fan? When my mom told me I was.
why do you think
he’d be a great safety? He’s old, frail and slowing. His role on the team needs to be reevaluated. He’s got to be a back up now to Jenkins and Scandrick, right? Kind of an expensive backup, no? Sorry Anthony. Trade him to a contender that can use him for only a short term, like the Colts to play opposite Bob Sanders.
I never said...
he’d be a great safety. I said that I believe that is their intentions — to move him to safety. Then I asked Raf what he thinks that will do to their draft plans if they make that move. I think y’all misinterpreted what I was asking. Soooo… back to the original question. If it is their intention to move AH to FS, and if they do it, do you think that they’ll look more for another CB or will they still focus on the safety position. My hope is that they’ll still draft a young safety either way.
I can't see
Henry as the answer at FS. I don’t know his contract status, but I just can’t see why he’d remain on the roster. He’s in the way of the young CBs. Unless he heals completely and gains a step, I just don’t see what his value is.
I think
We should move Henry to FS and also draft a quality FS propsect and let them compete for this year and expect the young guy to take over the following year when Henry’s contract is up. That would also give us some depth and flexibility if our CBs suffer injuries, as they usually do.
It would be risky to expect a rookie to start at safety from day 1. It would be great if that happened, but we shouldn’t count on it.
Henry has been a safety before.
Henry Is Not a FS
We have a FS; what we don’t have is a SS. Henry is just one of several too old and soon to be washed up players that we need to send packing; it was nice while it lasted Henry, but goodbye.
No need to dump him
I don’t want to see him starting, but we might as well keep him on the roster for another year.
(Romo) still gets excited when he buys a new t-shirt at Target for crying out loud
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 22, 2009 9:33 PM CST up reply actions
I too would worry about Henry being injury free playing safety
He usually has a few lingering injuries. But hey, he was the only vetren CB who could stay on the field last year.
by AustonianAggie on Jan 22, 2009 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
For the umpteenth time
Henry is 33.
He’s entering the last year of his contract.
He’s not the tackler Woody was. Woody could play WOLB, SS or FS in that scheme.
Henry is a band aid.
by Rafael Vela on Jan 22, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
Band aid?
I don’t even know that he would qualify as that…
This team NEEDS a quality playmaking, smart safety to take the next step on defense.
I believe this is THE NUMBER 1 PRIORITY for this offseason….
We're only going to get one if we draft one
no real FA options. , We can’t trade for Laron Landry
by AustonianAggie on Jan 22, 2009 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
Did someone advocate the band aid approach?
I read Raf’s post as simply calling AH as what he would be if he ended up being the FS. Nobody wants a bandaid approach, but there are also no gurantees when you’re first pick is #51. I still think AH to FS and Hamlin to SS is a better solution than we’ve seen so far, even if it’s a 1 yr bandaid.
by StillHateTheGiants on Jan 22, 2009 1:16 PM CST up reply actions
yea
it might be a band aid but its a hell of alot better than what we have now including roy williams at ss
this way our drafted safety can grow and fully assimilate into the position
"Aw Shucks" - Wade Phillips
i meant to say that
even with roy williams at ss, its not as good as having henry at fs and hamlin at ss
"Aw Shucks" - Wade Phillips
Henry is a Band Aid
And his time in this role must be over starting right now; we must shore up the SS role and this may include sending Roy Williams to the showers. We need a strong safety free agent and we need to draft at least one more, maybe two. Keith Davis and Roy Williams have no business making this football team.
AH to FS
I’m just not sure he is quick enough to play free safety all the time? Why not really try it in 08 when T-New, Scandrick, Jenkins & Pac-Rat where all together and we need a better safety than Bullets back there??
An upgrade is needed in 09 for sure either thru the draft or free agent, just don’t know where the free agent money is going to come from?? D-Ware must get paid next!!!!
I hope Arizona win for sure!!!!!!!!!!
They did in some packages in 2008.
They had him in their to cover the TE’s even before RW1 went down with a broken arm. Then we got so thin at CB with Pacman Jones’ issues and injuries to both TNew and Mike Jenkins so they really didn’t have the opportunity to experiment with it more. I’m just saying that nobody should be surprised when they decide to make the move for the 2009 season.
I’m with you — GO CARDINALS!
Great Article, Rafa
Nice comparison of the numbers… the bottom line is this team MUST find a solution at safety in order to take the next step. We have so many of the pieces in place on this defense, I think the wishful thinking theory was that we could cover up one weakness?
Here are my basic questions:
> What’s Hamlin’s excuse for an off year? Can we expect a return to his solid ’07 campaign?
> What about Watkins? Is he history or ready to step up?
> Are there free agent safeties this year?
> And finally, are the top-tier safety prospects in the draft within reach? If so, think we’ll trade up?
I think it’s debatable as to whether our first priority should be O-Line depth or a good free safety. Somehow I hope we stumble into both. Is that too much to ask?
Duane Thomas, Calvin Hill, Dorsett, Herschell, Emmitt ... and now MBIII, Felix, AND Choice!
oops... i meant strong safety
Duane Thomas, Calvin Hill, Dorsett, Herschell, Emmitt ... and now MBIII, Felix, AND Choice!
Nice Job Raf!
Your article is more of a scientific approach compared to the one I posted earlier “Safety First” on Fan posts
which is pretty much a bottom line approach. Either way this problem needs to be fixed ASAP!
Let T.O. Go!
by Captain Comeback on Jan 22, 2009 8:43 AM CST up reply actions
Hamlin Is Fine
It is the strong safety role that needs repair; Watkins is a failure and a bust; we need to move on from him; Keith Davis is not good enough to play in the NFL in my view, screw special teams and Roy Williams is miscast and he is too soft to be a leader; take the cap hit and move on. We need to draft two SS and find another one in free agency. Bye bye to Roy and Keith and Watkins.
Great analysis, as usual
My take on a few questions asked here:
AH has one year left on his contract and others are right about him slowing down and being injury prone. He isn’t the answer at FS
Ken Hamlin would probably be a decent SS but has never really been a great cover FS.
I’ve always been surprised how hard it is to find really good safetys. It seems like it would be a decent approach to find college CB’s who maybe are a little too big or a split second not quick enough to cover in the NFL and convert them. I’ve always thought it was a shame that Pete Hunter wouldn’t consider the move, he may have been the one.
by StillHateTheGiants on Jan 22, 2009 9:08 AM CST reply actions
I wonder the same thing.
Why don’t we see more college corners become NFL safeties? Are they afraid to hit, or are they so stuck on being the next Deion Sanders they won’t switch? If I was a decent college corner and really wanted to play on Sunday I would look at the switch.
When did I become a Cowboy fan? When my mom told me I was.
Money
Look at the free agent contracts good but not great guys like Nate Clements have gotten.
Reed and Polamalu will get their dough and Roy Willie got his, but there’s no comparison
between CB money and S money.
I talked to a guy who interviewed Ty Law about three or four years ago, when the chic
idea among Cowboys fans was to sign him and move him to safety. This reporter said
he asked Law if he would consider it and Law was so upset by the question he almost
hung up. He saw it as a demotion, in duties but especially in pay.
by Rafael Vela on Jan 22, 2009 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
I get that
I understand why it would go down hard at first, I know the money is much better for starting caliber CB’s. If the alternative is to be out of the league though as a CB, it’s irrational to not consider it isn’t it?. Wait, never mind, we’re talking about NFL players here.
by StillHateTheGiants on Jan 22, 2009 1:23 PM CST up reply actions
I would think
If the move is good enough for Rod Woodson and Deion then it should be good enough for any other DB. They were two of the best to ever play the position.
I understand the money part Raf
It is the kids coming out of college who are barely in the Corner mold and would make good safeties. Law is an established starting corner. Find a smart but not great corner material, and has good ball skills that isn’t afraid to hit. Just because he has corner tagged on him doesn’t mean some kid who is on the cusp won’t give it a shot expecially if it is his ticket in.
When did I become a Cowboy fan? When my mom told me I was.
Well, people are talking up Shawn Smith of Utah
and he’s an option at pick 51 and he may fit your bill. He’s a king-sized CB, at 215 lbs. who might welcome a move to S if it gets him on the field sooner. A lot will depend on his tackling ability. Woody was 219 lbs and played LB in college so he was not afraid to stick his nose in the pile when he played near the LOS.
Gerald McRath, Southern Miss
I have nothing but my own speculation to go on, but he might sneak in from weak side linebacker and switch to safety
by AustonianAggie on Jan 22, 2009 2:32 PM CST up reply actions
I wanted to draft LB Wesley Woodward last year.
I thought he could make the transition to SS. He had good speed for the position and was a tough player. All heart. He’s with Denver now I believe.
Now those
are options. If he has corner skills, but just a little too big/slow to make corner in the NFL then safety may be a place to make a roster. Do our scouts even talk to these kids about that or do they just look at the position they are playing.
When did I become a Cowboy fan? When my mom told me I was.
well clearly Pete Hunter was an idiot
and was never going to be ‘the one’ at the safety position, or any other
by AustonianAggie on Jan 22, 2009 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
I have always thought
that Hunter would have been a passable FS. His career says otherwise, and I don’t think my opinion is rational, but I wish he had given it a shot.
(Romo) still gets excited when he buys a new t-shirt at Target for crying out loud
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 22, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
I agree but history shows he was a mullet head
Darren was pretty smart, a portion of what allowed him to be excellent
by AustonianAggie on Jan 22, 2009 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
We probably have to trade up to get Delmas
If he makes it out of the first round. His stock has really been rising.
I've said all along
that our defense is a really good safety away from becoming an elite defense. You take Polamla away from the Steelers defense and they automatically go from being great to just good. I’m willing to bet that if the Steelers win the SB, he’ll have a big impact on the game.
In todays NFL, having great safety can really take your defense to another level.
In Romo we Trust
A SS Would be Great but . . .
We still gotta get stronger and tougher up the middle; at NT and someone to play next to Bradie James and I don’t want that short old has been from the Dolphins. This defense is more than a single safety away from being great.
if we put a band aid on the safety position for another year...
im gonna be pretty upset… this includes (but is not limited to)
1. believing roy williams/pat watkins/keith davis can handle the position
2. believing switching an injury prone/lost a step cb like a henry will solve our problems
WHAT WE NEED
1. a ball hawking young buc, with no known injury problems and a nose for the ball
2. i have no problem switching a henry to safety for certain situations… but if he goes back ther, we need to draft another cb or 2… or pick up some young guys with potential
by CowboysFan4Life on Jan 22, 2009 9:48 AM CST reply actions
Well regardless of whether we put a band aid on or draft a young guy
There is still gonna be a weak spot. Drafting a guy is what i think we should do, but it probably won’t make a huge impact on next years team.
If he's a good pick
he can play right away.
He might not be great right away, but if he’s smart and a sure tackler, he’ll
make a huge difference.
Look at the way Chris Horton sealed up Washington’s secondary this year.
+1
i just want a guy who makes plays next year… even if he gets beat every once in a while, i want a guy who shows us he can make plays and if given a year or two, can maybe be a strong part of our young young defense
by CowboysFan4Life on Jan 22, 2009 10:18 PM CST up reply actions
What about the O Line?
I agree Dallas needs a great safety that can play every down no matter the situation. But if they don’t make improvements on the O line they won’t the playoffs in 2009 either.
Geaux Cowboys!
True
But you have to prioritize. Hopefully the draft will provide 3-5 NFL caliber players that will make the team. At least a drafted OL won’t necessarily have to contribute this year, the starting group can be solid and a young gun can develop for a year or 2.
by StillHateTheGiants on Jan 22, 2009 10:29 AM CST up reply actions
Don't you mean O line Depth?
Our Oline is signed long term. We’re stuck with ’em
Yes we coulduse some depth but Saftey is far more pressing.
Let T.O. Go!
by Captain Comeback on Jan 22, 2009 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
Well then maybe...
if they can keep the same group healthy and playing together for a while the O line play will improve. Lots of folks complain about Tony’s fumbles, but he would have nearly so many if his protection was better.
Geaux Cowboys!
Agreed 100%
We need to do something about the offensive line. Kosier coming back won’t solve anything. There are no guarantees he stays healthy, or the rest of the line for that matter. No reason Falsestart Adams won’t stop his shenanigans. O-line has to be a top priority, not saying a safety isn’t also a top priority.
We have some
good offensive lineman, but for some reason they get out schemed. Either they can’t seem to recognize packages or are not coached on recognizing packages. I was just flabergasted that they kept getting beat by the same stunt/delayed blitz during the Baltimore game.
When did I become a Cowboy fan? When my mom told me I was.
Question about Woodson
I forget. How long did it take him to crack the starting lineup? I know he had to make the transition from college LB to safety. I remember when he was drafted, people were hopeful that he could be as good as fellow college LB’s Herb Adderly and Cornell Green. He exceeded all expectations on that front. I wonder if there are any smart, fast, undersized college LB’s that might turn into great safeties.
I found it.
He started 2 games in 1992 but was an All-Pro by his 3rd year.
by JimmyJohnson on Jan 22, 2009 10:57 AM CST up reply actions
Come on Jimmy, you should know this!
Just kidding.
He started two games in ‘92 but Jimmy Johnson admitted after Woody’s
game exploded in ’93 that he should have started him mid way throught
’92 but lost his nerve.
by Rafael Vela on Jan 22, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
We had 2 other good safeties back then, too.
I know it was before the salary cap, but man, those were the days. I still think James Washington should have been co-MVP of Super Bowl XXVIII.
by Baked Potato Soup on Jan 22, 2009 1:45 PM CST up reply actions
One observation
Is it just me or do we have one of the worst DB tacklers in the NFL?
It makes you wonder if our safeties and corners went to the Deion Sanders School of Tackling.
Interesting info, Raf… esp when you compare and analyze the numbers of two Cowboy defenses of different seasons — one with a legendary FS and the other without one.
You have a legitimately valid point arguing the fact that we so desperately need to acquire a reliable starting safety this off season.
Celebrity or Imposter?
YOU Decide...
http://www.xanga.com/metaltometal/689036052/celebrity-or-imposter/
It makes you wonder if our safeties and corners went to the Deion Sanders School of Tackling
You mean the Deion Sanders School of Making a Business Decisions. Mike Jenkins did that in the 1st Giants game.
Ha-Ha-Ha! Exactly!!!
Celebrity or Imposter?
YOU Decide...
http://www.xanga.com/metaltometal/689036052/celebrity-or-imposter/
by silverblue5 on Jan 22, 2009 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
Not the '07 Hamlin
He was vicious in the open field. It makes me worry that he was just doing that to get his big payday.
by JimmyJohnson on Jan 22, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
Along those same lines
I wonder if our D was one of the all-time worst in 3rd & 10+ situations. I don’t recall ever seeing offenses convert 3rd & very long as often as they did against us.
by JimmyJohnson on Jan 22, 2009 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
Yes, and that coincides with how often our defense seemed to...
… give up big plays.
Celebrity or Imposter?
YOU Decide...
http://www.xanga.com/metaltometal/689036052/celebrity-or-imposter/
by silverblue5 on Jan 22, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
This has been an issue for at least 2 seasons now
In-YOUR-endo
by accidental innuendo on Jan 22, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
2 seasons? no this trend goes way back
Bill Parcel’s D was prone to them too. I’m not going back down memory lane on this one.
by AustonianAggie on Jan 22, 2009 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, Remember the Saints game in 2006!
We got torched!
Let T.O. Go!
by Captain Comeback on Jan 22, 2009 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
And that particluar game really sucks for me...
since I live here in Saints country and bragged the whole week before the game how the Boys would mop the floor with the Aints.
Geaux Cowboys!
A blue chip S is not worth as much as
Another Demarcus Ware, they wont have time to throw the ball. Saw and now BELIEVE in Larry English last night SR Bowl Practice. WOW, explosive surely his stock will rise into the 1st round now but I was very impressed.
Dallas led the NFL in sacks last year
They almost got 60. That didn’t seem to close up the secondary holes.
You’ve got to address that position sooner or later. I’d prefer very, very soon,
by Rafael Vela on Jan 22, 2009 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
i wish
i wish we would have addressed the position 5 years ago… seriously… for the last 5 years thats been my wish
by CowboysFan4Life on Jan 22, 2009 10:22 PM CST up reply actions
We don't even need Blue Chip
Just two decent and competent safeties would be like money from home.
(Romo) still gets excited when he buys a new t-shirt at Target for crying out loud
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 22, 2009 11:20 AM CST reply actions
When you're in the ocean....
…and your boat has a gaping hole in the bow as well as the stern, and you’re taking on water at an alarming rate…it’s hard to decide which one to patch first.
We defintely need a safety. I’m hoping to get some ‘fear factor’ in our D backfield. When a receiver is worried that a hard hitting safety is patrolling back there and will blast him, it has an effect. Receiver’s start to grow alligator arms (little short ones, kept in close for protection) , they take their eyes off the ball and make drops, they hear ‘footsteps’ to the side or behind and ‘fear’ that the hit is coming…and they make mistakes. A hard hitting safety can make defensive impact sometimes just based on a hit he made earlier.
Now, I’m also thinking it’s critical that we patch that hole in the bow, and I think it might make an even bigger impact…depending on the player. If we got a NT who is not only a big boulder in the stream, but can consistently get upfield push, and that frees up Ratliff to play his normal position…I’m thinking that we almost get 2 for 1 if we get the right NT in there. We take away the run, we get more pressure on the passer and maybe get some more turnovers. Kind of like what defenses did to us this year.
"He has a peculiar felicity of expression." John Adams
Rat needs to stay at NT
what we need is better play out of our DEs.
Surely it is easier to get a DE to challenge Canty or Spears than to get a NT that can displace Ratliff
by AustonianAggie on Jan 22, 2009 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
Rat did a great job..
..and I’m assuming that he would be even better at a position he was more comfortable with and one where he might not face as many double teams. Combine that with a space eating NT who gets the upfield push and we have a D-line that gives opposing OC’s nightmares.
Rat is a handful. He excelled while playing out of position, I’m thinking that he would do even better in space. Do you think if we had a guy like Haynesworth with Rat next to him, Spencer and Ware coming from the outside (throw in Canty and/or Spears)…how do you block that? Who gets the double team?
"He has a peculiar felicity of expression." John Adams
I had hoped that Hayensworth's stomping incident would make him expendable
I strongly doubt he’s going to hit the open market unless Fisher is really clearing out Floyd Reese draft picks.
by AustonianAggie on Jan 22, 2009 3:11 PM CST up reply actions
rat likes playing nt
he didn’t want to switch to de when they tried it in camp
by CowboysFan4Life on Jan 22, 2009 10:23 PM CST up reply actions
I've started seeing mocks
with Delmas jumping up into the late first round. Is this people overvaluing him or is he lighting the world on fire at Senior Bowl practices?
Depends on the position
there are early mocks, before the junior flood, that put him in the late 1st.
Since the junior started declaring in bunches I’ve seen a lot of new mocks
that do no include a single S in the 1st. USC’s Taylor Mays was the big name
everybody was waiting for and he stayed in school.
by Rafael Vela on Jan 22, 2009 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
I was very surprised in seeing him in the first rounds
of some mocks and not Franklin. Have you heard how he has been at Senior Bowl practices?
by Mandmeisterx on Jan 22, 2009 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
I'm pretty confident he'll drop
So other guys are making big news this week at Senior Week.
by joey7289 on Jan 22, 2009 1:05 PM CST up reply actions
It all depends where the safety rush starts.
The later the better.
by joey7289 on Jan 22, 2009 3:58 PM CST up reply actions
they can start telling you about where most players will go, like within 10 picks through round 5
nothing is 100% but it is useful because enough mocks put together will help you organize the data and get a sense of trends
by AustonianAggie on Jan 22, 2009 4:20 PM CST up reply actions
I'm a big exaggerator
Obviously not 100%. But i have followed mock drafts for years and years, and i have seen a lot of deviation between different ones. And these are guys creating drafts on mostly on what they think is practical for the team. Not what the owner is crazy enough to draft although it is not a necessity, or what the owner even thinks is practical. Hell, we all want a safety and depth on the o-line, for all we know Jerry wants another loud-mouth in the lockeroom or another thug.
I have followed mock drafts for years
And while it’s a poor indicator of what team a player will land with, it is generally a pretty good indicator of what rounds a player will likely fall.
For sure
It is impossible to know how teams grade different players. Donnie Avery and Jordie Nelson come to mind.
"Protect the Romo, Save the Cowboys!!"
Regarding Larry English
he plays better than his numbers. he’s not a track star, as his times suggest, yet he is oh-so explosive.
he has straight line speed. i doubt he changess direction well. but, he usually takes such good angles to the qb that he doesn’t have to shift from his route (how often do we see pass rushers pierce the pocket, only to be brushed aside by the qb? Greg Ellis anyone?).
i have to say that i’ve rarely seen him bring pressure from a normal stance. he ussually disrupts the offense when his splits are very, very wide, in a must-pass situation. But, when he’s in that advantageous position, he dominates.
some may argue the “weak competition.” i’d say he resemble John Abraham.
And....
English was amazingly productive.
a lot of his plays were made on indecisive qbs.
he isn’t overly aggressive (he seems to have a good head).
I find Patrick Chung intriguing at the safety position
where do you think he’d be drafted? at 5’11 they’re saying round 2 or 3. In his college he plays LB, CB and SS. Thats the kind of versatility I’d like in a safety.
Increasingly I imagine Dallas turning their slew of picks in to 5 or 6 mid round picks, rounds 2-5, aiming for guys like Chung (rated 44th best player by NFL draft scout), Phil Loadholt (offensive tackle, OU, 58th rated), Johnathan Luigs (Center, Arkansas, 61st), Daniels (QB, Missouri, not on boards).
Unfortuanately junior safeties could of made this class Safety rich but its not happening this year. Chung might be gone in the late 1st.
I am asking for a lot of 2nd round picks,and not to be back ups, but to snag a lot of competition for starters and important backups.
by AustonianAggie on Jan 22, 2009 12:34 PM CST reply actions
in hind sight,
it’d take about 3 3rd round picks to trade in to the middle of the 2nd, so this is wishful thinking
by AustonianAggie on Jan 22, 2009 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
Luigs is dropping
I’d say he’s a guy you can get in the 4th, if Dallas is still looking at him. There are better C options there. All the top 4 C/Gs are at the Senior Bowl and Luigs is looking like a clear #4 on that list.
During the season
I heard a lot about A Q Shipley from Penn State, he seems to have really taken a dive. I haven’t seen a projection for him higher than 5th round. What are your thoughts on him?
by Mandmeisterx on Jan 22, 2009 1:59 PM CST up reply actions
he's the guy I want at #51.
We weren’t able to get Reggie Nelson in 2007, hopefully we can get this kid in the 2nd rd.
In Romo we Trust
Sean Smith
Sean Smith from Utah
6-3 / 214lbs / 4.5 forty time
I believe so
He could probably play both
He comes from a winning underdog team, he has a mentality to prove himself
Look at the guys who have been on Dallas' radar
— They loved Landry, but he rocketed from the late 1st into the top 10;
— They considered Brandon Meriweather, but took Spencer instead because Ellis was coming off his Achilles injury and they needed an OLB.
— That same year they were looking at Aaron Ross, Michael Griffin and Nelson. Remember that Dallas picked 21st. They made the Brady Quinn deal because the four CBs and Ss they were eyeing all went in the four picks between 17 and 20. The board was picked clean right before their eyes.
If they really like Delmas or one of the other top Ss, I think they’ll trade up 6-10 spots to assure themselves of getting him.
I remember Whitner did the same thing.
We ended up with Barbie Carpenter instead. What a bargain!
by Mandmeisterx on Jan 22, 2009 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
Safety is looking like the quickest way to impact the starting line up
Which has me thinking it will be the top priority with the top pick. Followed by more O-linemen.
Just out of the blue, I know he wasn’t good enough as a rookie, or a second year player, but Rob Petteti is doing nothing, sitting out this year with a torn achillies tendon. Any chance in his 4th year he can play at a higher level? Just speculating, some Oline players are late bloomers.
by AustonianAggie on Jan 22, 2009 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
Short answer: No
He was stiff before the Achilles. He’s probably Frankenstein now.
Wow Raf
don’t you need to think about it?
When did I become a Cowboy fan? When my mom told me I was.
Petitti couldn't make New Orleans as a backup
there’s no reason to think he’s any more flexible with a major leg injury.
That guy’s lousy play ruined my December of ’05. No thank you.
So what do we think of Martin and Free?
Our attempt to address oline depth after that year. Who was that other LT that year? he was even worse- Tampa Bay signed him
I guess the answer on Martin, Free and McQuinstan is we need more players at their spots.
by AustonianAggie on Jan 22, 2009 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
Oh, Raf
I’m sure you had all the facts and figures stacked in that football sized brain of yours. I am just amazed at how fast it works. You probably even know who the worst lineman was in ’68.
When did I become a Cowboy fan? When my mom told me I was.
HEY!
Don’t thrown down the gauntlet! =)
Stop the Madness - Enshrine Bob Hayes
"I played for the world's greatest professional sports team in history. Once a Dallas Cowboy, always a Dallas Cowboy." - Bob Hayes
http://www.bloggingtheboys.com
by Raul Villaronga on Jan 22, 2009 10:28 PM CST up reply actions
OT - Irvin's reality show
this may not be the place for this….but seriously – if Jerry and Wade want Cowboys fans to take them seriously – this proposed reality show needs to be cancelled immediately
like the circus around this team isn’t bad enough!!!
what’s next?? a big top and dancing bears???
i feel like such a fool for being a fan of this team for 30+ years….i’m close to hitting rock bottom
well no one respects Seattle right now
it’s just no one brings them up. Dallas doesn’t bring disrespect on itself with the circus, Dallas just brings on more scrutiny.
I don’t like it, but its not the reason Dallas gets dissed. Don’t get me wrong I get tired of muting the TV when ever TO comes is on screen.
My only question about this contest is that it seems like a 2 month long mini-audition and scouting combine on 12 unknown players. This might not be NFL-legal
by AustonianAggie on Jan 22, 2009 3:08 PM CST up reply actions
geez
why can’t we just have a team that plays hard to win and forget all this ridiculous showmanship junk?
well both lost and won in title bouts
who would you rather have, Muhammad Ali or Joe Frazier?
by AustonianAggie on Jan 22, 2009 3:17 PM CST up reply actions
but looking at recent history....
specifically last season….this is definitely not the time to pull a publicity stunt like this…..no playoff wins in 13 years….
lets get back to basics…meat & potatoes…
yeah it'd be cooler to not do this while the tails between the legs
but Jerry would do this whether he went 0-16 or 19-0. I suspect who ever makes it will be amongst the first cut.
by AustonianAggie on Jan 22, 2009 3:25 PM CST up reply actions
well - if the show was geared towards finding a SS.....
contestants would have a reasonable chance….
that'd be a trip
Cliff Harris (if I recall right) was definitely not expected to make the roster and was sort of a joke of a camp body. They asked him to come since they wouldn’t have to pay his airfare
by AustonianAggie on Jan 22, 2009 3:58 PM CST up reply actions
Uhhh JJ would
never allow that. The Dallas Cowboys are a media tornado and JJ tries to keep it lassoed.
When did I become a Cowboy fan? When my mom told me I was.
Here's another safety prospect I'm pulling out of the ether
LB Pierre Banks, Appalachian State
Fast, atheletic, smart, instrumental in upsetting Michigan, physical; he makes plays like Dat Nguyen used to for the Aggies. To Light to be a LB in the NFL
to complement my other LB choice Gerald McRath
Darren Woodson is one of my all-time favorite Cowboys; I
remember the plunge in the quality of the defense after he left. As far as I’m concerned, he should be in the Hall of Fame. What wouldn’t I give for another player even close to his caliber?
You guys HAVE TO check this out!!!
John Czarnecki of FOX Sports is saying that (a) writer(s) from the St Louis Post-Dispatch wrote/said that Garrett had difficulty coaching black players, or something to this effect. I just wrote it up in a fanpost:
Someone wrote that Garrett can’t coach black players?!?
Czarnecki is basically blaming T.O. for this. I hadn’t heard anything about any of this until around 2 hours ago. If anyone knows more on this, please chime in.
by PaulFVillarreal on Jan 22, 2009 5:19 PM CST reply actions
Delmis and English impress
As for Delmas, Saturday’s game could be his real proving ground because there isn’t any live tackling during practice.
Delmas is fiery and positions himself well to make plays. He’s also a ball hawk in coverage, having converted to safety after his freshman season. He’s viewed as a prototype player for a Tampa 2 defense, in which free and strong safeties are interchangeable in pass coverage and run support.
"Protect the Romo, Save the Cowboys!!"
why do you say that?
Darren Woodson was a 2nd rounder;
Tony Dixon was a 2nd rounder;
Thong as a top 10 pick;
Dallas was considering Meriweather two years ago wtih the 21st pick;
Aha, but woodson was a LB that they converted to safety, LOL. You could contend that they
had intended to convert him from the start, but this is back in 92, so we may never really know. The only reason I even know he was originally a LB was because he was on the lunch break and it came up when he was taking to nick eatman.
Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!
FWIW
I think Woodson was seen as a safety all along, but as always, I could be wrong.
(Romo) still gets excited when he buys a new t-shirt at Target for crying out loud
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 22, 2009 9:25 PM CST up reply actions
He got their attention at the combine because
he was the fasted LB there, by a bit.
He was 219 lbs, too small even for their scheme to play every down as a LB.
by Rafael Vela on Jan 23, 2009 12:33 AM CST up reply actions
two words.....Roy Williams....
Because of that draft blunder it’s not going to happen….drafting a safety high in the draft is more times than not a mistake..In our case it was a costly one.
your argument doesn't make sense
as there is a huge difference between the 8th pick in the first rd and pick #51 in the 2nd rd.
In Romo we Trust
You can always make an arugement for
Safeties that played well when drafted high…Landry, and Sean Taylor, before he passed, were both good safeties drafted high.
by joey7289 on Jan 23, 2009 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
RW1 was pretty good for a while.
I like Raf’s David Fulcher comparison with him. Got too thick and too slow.
He also got soft
Puffy sleeves. Lost his intimidation factor.
(Romo) still gets excited when he buys a new t-shirt at Target for crying out loud
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 23, 2009 6:19 PM CST up reply actions
what happened
to the RW1 who made the late game pick against McNabb to seal that game?
Give the guy a chance to play in Wade’s new defense. I would like to see him when we get some pressure on the QB.
Maybe lighten up on the guy and see how he does in training camp.
by oneforthethumb on Jan 22, 2009 7:54 PM CST up reply actions
Safety
I think Delmas will probably be gone by the time the Boys pick in round 2. I’m looking at Chung as a possibility but not sure he will be around either. I’m thinking OL or DL in the 2nd round.
What round is Michael Hamlin projected to go in?
He seemed to have a good practice today at the senior bowl.
Hamlin
Might be on the board when Dallas picks. I actually like Hamlin but starting to think we go either DL or OL in round 2. Here is a scouting report -
http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/s/Michael-Hamlin.php
I can't see the Cowboys drafting a backup OL that early
Since all of the starters are signed to lengthy deals. DL makes sense but only if they can find a DT who demands a double team. I think the thin safety corps is going to force the Cowboys to trade up to take the one they are most impressed with.
At the risk of being "Johnny-Come-Lately" ...
heh heh heh …
Yeah, the rivalry runs THAT deep … ESPECIALLY when you live in Pennsylvania …
Stop the Madness - Enshrine Bob Hayes
"I played for the world's greatest professional sports team in history. Once a Dallas Cowboy, always a Dallas Cowboy." - Bob Hayes
http://www.bloggingtheboys.com
by Raul Villaronga on Jan 22, 2009 10:34 PM CST reply actions
The 03 team also faced few good offenses
That is another reason it was smoke and mirrors. I consider that year to be BP’s last great coaching year. He was never as good afterwards. If we could have had that BP in 2006 we might have won it all- even with the train wreck with the D late in the season.
I mean you look at the people starting on that 03 team- there are only 5-6 left as starters anywhere in the NFL. SOME like LA are just too old and are gone (La Roi is still playing but he is not what he was) other then them the only ones still playing (at least occasionally) at a high level are Witten, Newman, Gurode, (I guess I have to mention the Hotel), and I think that is it. How many of them were still starters anywhere even 2 years later?
Senior Bowl
Delmas’ status for the game is still up in the air and his injury remains undisclosed, but a scout who spoke with him told us that Delmas is going to have tests done at a local hospital this afternoon. Regardless of if he plays in Saturday’s game or not, Delmas can leave Mobile with his head held high. We now rank him as one of the top two safety prospects (along with Alabama’s Rashad Johnson) in the 2009 class, which means Delmas has leapfrogged Missouri’s William Moore. Seeing Delmas and Moore on the same field this week has made it clear that Delmas is the more complete player. Moore has great straight-line speed for his size, but his somewhat stiff hips hinder his ability to match up in man coverage and he hasn’t eased concerns about how quickly he diagnoses plays. While Delmas (6-foot, 197 pounds) isn’t nearly as big as Moore, he is still a tough run stuffer who flies to the ball and his instincts in coverage are outstanding. As one personnel man said this week, “If you don’t believe in Delmas, go watch the Western Michigan-Nebraska game [in which Delmas had 11 tackles — five solo — and an interception]. It tells you everything you need to know.”
Wake Forest S Chip Vaughn was able to put an exclamation point during this afternoon’s practice on what was an overall impressive week. Vaughn continues to be reliable in the back end as he takes precise angles to the point when the ball is in the air. He also showed natural instincts when roaming center field and was able to read the quarterbacks’ eyes and get a quick jump on the ball. Vaughn has been outstanding in run support the past few days and today he proved he is not just a box safety, but can be counted on in coverage as well.
todd mcshay
"Protect the Romo, Save the Cowboys!!"
link
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/insider/news/story?id=3853074
"Protect the Romo, Save the Cowboys!!"
I like the Vaughn scouting report
Getting a good jump on the ball and reading the quarterbacks’ eyes would be really important in a FS. Does he have any injury concerns? What’s his projected 40 time? Delmas’ injury concerns me.
projected 40 time
4.50
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 23, 2009 6:26 PM CST up reply actions
Average times for safeties at last years combine were
4.61 for FS
4.57 for SS
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 23, 2009 9:45 PM CST up reply actions
Delmas
Looked good but he seems to be making a name for himself, some see him moving up, I guess Sunday will be a big test.
by joey7289 on Jan 23, 2009 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
Yes I just read that.
That is what I meant with Sunday, it would be a shame if he didn’t play, I would have like to watch him, oh well.
by joey7289 on Jan 23, 2009 6:25 PM CST up reply actions
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