Dallas Needs a New Coach Now, or Not at All
by Rafael Vela on Jan 4, 2009 2:58 PM CST
205 comments
Count me as highly skeptical on the "new coach in '10" stories.
They defy simple logic and are dishonest, to the coaches, players and fans.
To show you why, let's review Tom Coughlin's career. At this time in January 2007, Coughlin was in a position similar to the one Wade Phillips occupies now. He had just finished his eleventh season as a head coach. His '06 Giants had entered the year as Super Bowl contenders but dropped to 8-8 after an 11-5 record the year before. They staggered into the playoffs and were knocked out in the first round by the Eagles. Coughlin was 0-2 as a playoff coach for the Big Blue. Tiki Barber had just retired. Michael Strahan was threatening retirement. New York was the biggest soap opera in the game.
The Giants decided to give Coughlin another year, but he started the '07 campaign on the hottest of hot seats. That heat intensified when the club started 0-2. His guys were 4-4 in the second half of that season but caught fire in the playoffs and won Coughlin his first Super Bowl at the age of 61.
The Giants rewarded him with an extension and his current team has a very good chance to repeat. Coughlin is as secure as any head coach in the business right now.
Yet, I seriously doubt Coughlin's guys would have turned on the gas in January 2008 if they knew he was going to be replaced, regardless of what happened in the postseason.
Which brings us to Wade Phillips. If Jerry Jones sticks to his word, and gives Wade the chance to right the Cowboys ship this year, he needs to offer the chance for an extension, for Wade to become the Tom Coughlin of 2009. Otherwise, Jerry is writing off the season before it begins. If a possible extension is off the table, Phillips will have no authority. His players, who tuned out Bill Parcells, will surely fall back -- again -- on their mercenary tendencies.
If Jerry intends to bring in either Mike Shanahan or Mike Holmgren in 2010, no matter what the '09 Cowboys do, he should make the change right now. Otherwise, 6-10 or 7-9 are almost certain.
You can't fly with a lame duck.
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Agreed.
Come and whisper in my ear, give us dirty laundry - ESPN
by Nelson... on Jan 4, 2009 3:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Opinions on just exactly how
Coughlin righted that sinking ship?
by Benthere on Jan 4, 2009 3:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Oh, let's see
Eli started to mature late in his third full year as a starter.
The Giants had some very good young backs to take Barber’s place.
They got Steve Spagnuolo, who improved the D over Tim Lewis.
The team got some continuity and got better.
It was a lot of little things that added up to a big plus.
by Rafael Vela on Jan 4, 2009 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe Wade has an option for a fourth year. Do you think that picking up his option in the near future is good enough or is an extension mandatory? From all things I can find it appears Jerry is committed to Wade in the near term. The question is what is “near term?” BTW do you know if Coughlin had another year on his deal when the Giants won the SB?
by jevans1729 on Jan 4, 2009 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds vaguely familiar
A QB that needs a little maturation, either an improvement or replacement of DC/OC and a couple of players.
by Benthere on Jan 4, 2009 3:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Giants also benefitted
by playing against Romo and Favre in the playoffs.
by DavidH22 on Jan 4, 2009 6:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree but...
the biggest piece was that they lost their “superstar” to early retirement, and in the process, became a team.
"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
by 5Blings on Jan 5, 2009 11:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree as well
I’d do it now while this team is still mostly intact.
You'll never get in a traffic jam,while going the extra mile. -Roger staubach
by TrueBlue24 on Jan 4, 2009 3:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
This was probably the team's attitude this season
Players aren’t stupid, they know if Jerry is paying Garrett 3 mil a year, more that Wade, they probably figured Wade was a lame duck to a certain extent and Garrett would eventually become HC.
Didn’t everyone here think the same thing last year at this time.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 4, 2009 3:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Quack
Yes, it seems like the Garrett contract kind of gelded WP last year. Hard to be the man when the coach in waiting is in the room, and everyone knows it.
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 4, 2009 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yet,
it was the defense that turned it up aftere the bye, not the offense.
by Rafael Vela on Jan 4, 2009 3:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed, but
The tone that many of us get from this team is that of a lack of intensity. I don’t mean Phillips has to be a hardass, but still a taskmaster. The HC has to set the tone, and the Philly performance was beyond comprehension.
Not to get all Montecito on everyone, but I think that part of the reason the D turned it up is that Stewart was far out of his depth.
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 4, 2009 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wanted Garrett gone last season....don't include me in the "everyone here" talk.
A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.
President - Garrett MUST GO campaign -
by BoyzRback on Jan 4, 2009 11:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
THIS IS JERRY'S FAULT
It’s the same dynamic as in Seattle.
He needs to swear that he will NEVER hire another assistant coach so long as he is the owner of the Cowboys.
"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
by 5Blings on Jan 5, 2009 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Right on Raf
I see the parallels between Romo going into his third full year like Manning, and the emergence of new backs (jones and choice).
It isn’t guaranteed that history repeat itself, but I’d rather bank on that happening and leading to success rather than hiring a new coach that leads to success…if that makes sense
by ThryceCubed on Jan 4, 2009 3:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Three grafs from that linked story on "hot seat" Coughlin
That’s the Giants, though. They were the defending NFC East champs and considered a legitimate Super Bowl contender a year ago. They got big heads, suffered a couple of injuries, pointed fingers and went 8-8 to barely squeeze into the playoffs.
“One of the things we are striving for this year is playing together as a team,” center Shaun O’Hara said. “I think last year we had a lot of individual talent, but I don’t know if we played well as a team every Sunday. That’s our overall goal as a team, to complement each other in every phase and make it a collective effort…”
On the field, the offense has shown the potential to carry the Giants, especially if Manning can avoid a third straight second-half slump…"
Hmmm. Where have we heard this story before?
by Rafael Vela on Jan 4, 2009 3:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Raf, I agree with you 100% on this one. I think Shanahan getting fired was a surprise to ole Jerry. I bet he really wants Shanahan but won’t make the move after giving SOB the thumbs up for next year.
Question: Would it be easy for the Boys to switch back to the 4-3? If the did, who would start? Is it really that hard to switch back?
by tyler2 on Jan 4, 2009 3:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
4-3
I’m not saying I would want them to switch back to the 4-3 but I keep reading that Shanahan is a 4-3 guy. People seem to make such a big deal of the 3-4 vs. 4-3. I was just curious as to what you thought. I have heard a few of the guys on DC.COM state they think the team fits a 4-3 better than the 3-4 – even after all the drafting toward the 3-4.
by tyler2 on Jan 4, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My understanding is Shanahan was looking at using more 3-4
when he was fired.
He’s an offensive coach. He’ll take whatever his DCs make work. When he was OC at San Francisco, they ran 3-4.
by Rafael Vela on Jan 4, 2009 3:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to see a little more of some mixed fronts. Or some pre snap shifting.
Cris Carter....you're dead to me.
by Carl Shelton (GloryDayz88) on Jan 5, 2009 7:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The new thing is the the hybrid 3-4 / 4-3
"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
by 5Blings on Jan 5, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bart Scott, space eater, and young hungry safety
Scott abliity to blitz is nice.
Space eater stuff the run..
Safety to Ball hawk and allow Hamlin to come up in run support.
"Protect the Romo, Save the Cowboys!!"
by Wmillion on Jan 5, 2009 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Would Carpenter be any worse than Akin Ayodele was in '07?
by Rafael Vela on Jan 4, 2009 3:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Not to threadjack
Do you think ZT was much of an upgrade over Akin?
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 4, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He was better
but that’s the difference between awful and pretty good. But pretty good is fine, as long as Bradie James keeps playing at his current level.
by Rafael Vela on Jan 4, 2009 3:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes....ZT had more tackles at mid season
than AKIN had all year in 2007
You'll never get in a traffic jam,while going the extra mile. -Roger staubach
by TrueBlue24 on Jan 4, 2009 5:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Carpenter has never had a real chance...and yes he would be better than Ayodele..
I’m a big Carpenter supporter, but I think we need to make a strong push for an experienced 3-4 ILB like Bart Scott this offseason.
by Boyzfan94 on Jan 4, 2009 7:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he's had plenty of chances
he just flat out sucks…bottom line. He couldn’t carry Adodele’s jock strap and thats just shows you how awful he is.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 4, 2009 10:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LMAO....your not a big Carpenter supporter ?????...YOUR the ONLY Carpenter supporter...
good grief..an no…he wouldn’t be an upgrade over any LB in the NFL..
A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.
President - Garrett MUST GO campaign -
by BoyzRback on Jan 4, 2009 11:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Talk about a rock and a hard place
that is a fork in the neck type of choice
by ThryceCubed on Jan 4, 2009 3:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
players
It doesn’t matter if Phillips comes back or Jerry hires a new coach. I believe it’s the players with a bad attitude that are not hungry to win. Get rid of those players and you’ll see positive results. For example, Miami lost today but their players were still hungry to win. Did you see Ricky Williams churning for yards and lay out Bart Scott? That’s what I mean.
by beautifultyrant on Jan 4, 2009 3:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Save this post!
I agree with your comment, but this has to be the only time in 5 years Ricky Williams was used as an example of heart….
by Realist Larry on Jan 4, 2009 4:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
No. It’s players who are hungry to win, but hungrier to feed their own egos.
I don’t think Dallas has “locker room leadership” that can call out people for behaving badly. Did you hear Ray Lewis talk about how “his guys” were accountable on the field for their play?
Who does that for us? Who????
"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
by 5Blings on Jan 5, 2009 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The thing is though, as much as many of us would love to see some change now...
It’s not going to happen. Who do we want to bring in that we are CONFIDENT can do a better job than Wade? Three guys that are almost 100% certain they don’t want to coach at all this year, for anybody.
by Brandon Worley on Jan 4, 2009 3:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
It depends on what definition we apply to "better job"
If by ‘better job’ we mean going 11-5/13-3 and at least a win in the playoffs next year, then I would say no, there’s no one I’m particularly confident in that could do that. To me, the fundamental changes required to achieve that kind of success are too great to be completed in a single offseason.
But if by ‘better job’ we mean infusing heart, character and a galvanized will to win into this team, then I would say I’m ABSOLUTELY CONFIDENT in about 10 candidates, due in large part to Wade’s demonstrated inability to do any of the above.
IMO: good coaches instill character; really good coaches instill character and good schemes; great coaches instill character, good schemes and have solid talent evaluators working with them.
Right now, by my count, we have one of the three elements (talent evaluators) of a great coach.
by Starred4Life on Jan 5, 2009 9:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree completely!!!
This team is loaded.
The right leader, the right culture of accountability (for players AND coaches) can turn this 9-7 team into the most dominant team in football IN ONE OFF SEASON.
But let’s face it, Wade (who lets Pac practice in PJ’s, gives vets a day off just because he wants to beat the rush to the buffet line and doesn’t believe that how you prepare has everything to do with how you play) is not that guy.
Shame on Jerry for not seeing that.
"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
by 5Blings on Jan 5, 2009 11:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Your right
This team is loaded with talent. No argument there.
Problem is, talented is about all they ‘are’.
Here is a list of what they ARE NOT:
Physically tough
Mentally tough
Disciplined
Cohesive
Hungry
That is A LOT to fix in a single offseason.
by Starred4Life on Jan 5, 2009 5:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you forgot healthy.
"Protect the Romo, Save the Cowboys!!"
by Wmillion on Jan 5, 2009 6:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
they are physically tough
the rest..not so much
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 5, 2009 7:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In a 4-3
you get ware/james-burnett/ellis-spencer no ayodele (hypothetically) or carpenter ever needed !!
so on the line we’d have ratliff, canty, spears and uhhh, leonard davis
by ThryceCubed on Jan 4, 2009 3:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
If Jerry Jones wants Shanahan or someone else, he should act now. If he wants to give Wade another chance, then he’s got to back him with full support. I don’t want to go through this next season anticipating a coaching change in 2010.
Suffice it to say, something has to change next season. Injuries plagued the Cowboys this year, but that’s not the whole story. Penalties, uninspired play, and failure to execute coupled with unnecessary off the field issues made this one of the most difficult seasons for me to watch. The 2008 team had a ton of talent that wasn’t effectively utilized.
by Cannon Jacques on Jan 4, 2009 3:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
would we all be talking this crazy
if we made it in the playoffs? I mean 3 games without romo, 12 games without kosier, and a couple more of offense playmakers tthat miss time. The cowboys were a sneeze away from being 11-5.
Is all this crazy talk coming from just because we still have that horrible loss in our minds? I think we as the fans are overreacting. Yes things need to change but i dont think a complete overhaul like some are suggesting is needed
What the French?! Toast!
by thebigham on Jan 4, 2009 3:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
You're probably right
but the losses to the Rams, Cardinals, and Eagles (the way we lost each) show that changes are absolutely necessary.
by rhbgsherb on Jan 4, 2009 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
rams no romo
cards… who knows
eagles……………….. yeah
something needs to change but not as drastic
What the French?! Toast!
by thebigham on Jan 4, 2009 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
more like....
rams no heart
cards no special teams
eagles no heart.
BTW, i dominate fantasy football.
by jacksastud on Jan 4, 2009 6:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No No No
Rams = no preparation
In the Cards game, we were punting from deep in our territory and giving one of the most prolific offenses in the game the ball in likely great field position. we were going to lose that game, block or no block.
Eagles = poor preparation
"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
by 5Blings on Jan 5, 2009 11:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That point sounds good, but
the complete implosion of tyhis team the last week overrules a lot of common sense points.
It could be taken to show a team really turning on its coach (-es).
by Realist Larry on Jan 4, 2009 4:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes,
for the second time in three years.
Which means any cycling of coaches should also demand some turnover in players.
by Rafael Vela on Jan 4, 2009 4:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True.
I don’t know what to expect anymore
by Realist Larry on Jan 4, 2009 5:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How about going 1-3 down the stretch...
for the 3rd year in a row?!
0 = The number of Super Bowls the Eagles have won.
by gee-roj on Jan 5, 2009 9:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, no
You don’t play a 20 sack guy as a 4-3 LB.
If you stayed with this personnel and insisted on 4-3 you have:
DTs — Canty, Ratliff;
DEs — Ware, Spencer
MLB — James
WLB — Burnett
SLB — Carpenter
by Rafael Vela on Jan 4, 2009 3:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
I think Jerry is commited to a 3-4 and any incoming coach will have to work with that scheme on defense. I also think that’s why our next HC will most likely be an “offensive” guy. Just think about the names being mentioned: Garrett, Holmgren, Shanahan. And eventhough Cower is mentioned, he’s a 3-4 guy anyway.
by desus32 on Jan 4, 2009 4:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Baby would I love to see that!
Have I ever mentioned I prefer the 4-3 and think we DO have the personnel for it?
What a waste having Ware play LB and cover guys…..
by Realist Larry on Jan 4, 2009 4:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I prefer good defense
Pittsburgh and Baltimore play 3-4. New York and Philly play 4-3.
It all comes down to talent.
by Rafael Vela on Jan 4, 2009 4:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
...and coaching
You could make an argument saying that those teams have the 4 best DC’s in the NFL. It would be tough to refute.
"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
by 5Blings on Jan 5, 2009 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
good point
"Protect the Romo, Save the Cowboys!!"
by Wmillion on Jan 5, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
to be honest...with the possible loss of Zack and Burnett, and inabilities of Barbie...we are very scarce in the LB dept..with NO depth....
this team would be better suited in a 4-3 at this point……
A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.
President - Garrett MUST GO campaign -
by BoyzRback on Jan 4, 2009 11:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like we need Burnett
a FA and draft one.. We were pretty healthy at this position last year.
"Protect the Romo, Save the Cowboys!!"
by Wmillion on Jan 4, 2009 11:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yes....we are actually in Flo mode again...being forced to sign Burnett....
we also need to draft an LB or 2, and even pick up a FA or two…
A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.
President - Garrett MUST GO campaign -
by BoyzRback on Jan 4, 2009 11:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
also why
we had to overpay Hamlin and Crayton – nobody pushing them up and out.
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 4, 2009 11:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Crayton was a good signing..
hamlin we thought we had a All-Pro safety
"Protect the Romo, Save the Cowboys!!"
by Wmillion on Jan 5, 2009 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Depth
depth is an issue at S, NT and ILB for sure, and OLB if we lose Ellis, and DE if we pass on Canty. There is a good chance that Canty and Burnett get sweet offers elsewhere – heck, Jacques Reeves got paid.
Depth is also an issue on the OL. Some weak drafts a few years back, as well as ignoring the safety position, have left us vulnerable.
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 4, 2009 11:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One Charles Haley...
Successfully made the transition from a good 3/4 linebacker to a great 4/3 DE.
0 = The number of Super Bowls the Eagles have won.
by gee-roj on Jan 5, 2009 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I like it the way it is right now
So you want Ware to play with his hand down and take on 330 lb. OTs on running plays?
Phillips moves him up and down the line. You put him in a 4-3, you’re likely lining him up in one place.
The only reason he ever covers in this scheme is because Dallas doesn’t have any SSs worth spit.
by Rafael Vela on Jan 4, 2009 4:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
Sounds better than dropping him back into coverage whatever % of passing plays it is. 10%?
DE’s have been taking on big tackles forever. Also, doesn’t he line up on tackles anyways, at least the vast majority of the time?
by Realist Larry on Jan 4, 2009 5:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
IMHO......
Something worse than getting upset about losing and not getting a new coach is starting to set in with the fans, APATHY. For the first time ever, I’m feeling like Romo. If they win, OK. If they don’t, OK. The passion for caring is going away. I hope Jerry sees that. (Because apathy = less money being spent on the Cowboys.)
by TacoKid on Jan 4, 2009 4:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think an elite saftey added to this current defense will increase it ten fold
What the French?! Toast!
by thebigham on Jan 4, 2009 4:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think the defense is very far off. My biggest gripe is them giving up huge plays at the end of games. This was also a problem for Parcells. I’m not smart enough to pinpoint the exact cause, but it needs to be addressed. The end of the Ravens game was horrific. I’d love to have a versatile guy like Bob Sanders at safety. I think the young corners, Jenkins and Scandrick, have looked pretty good. Newman is still great, IMO, and Henry holds down his side fairly well. Safety is definitely an area that deserves some attention.
by Cannon Jacques on Jan 4, 2009 4:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sanders plays fewer games per year than Pacman
"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
by 5Blings on Jan 5, 2009 11:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Changes needed...
I dont know if these are tragic or not but IMO these are the chanes and in order of priority:
1. An O-line that creates holes for running game and protects his QB (this will reduce turnovers).
2. Cut down the penalties by half (at least).
3. Special teams….everything except Field goals was horrible this year.
4. For the CB’s to start turning their heads for the ball when the receivers do.
5. Creative play calling on offense. Romo is great or was great in the 2 minute offense yet, we never went no huddle this season (probably because the line is plain stupid).
6. A good Safety. I dont like the thong and not yet sold on Hamlin.
by ManTab on Jan 4, 2009 5:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Phillips needs to go! The man is a D coordinator not a head coach.
I agree with Rafael on the coaching change It has to be made know or next year will be another circus.We are the New York yankees of football,All the talent but no chemistry.
I also finally thought we found a qb but that is not the case.Our future Qb took the celebrity qb route and trying to imitate Favre.Has he really watched Favre play? The man was a good Qb but in my opinion not a great one.I heard on WEEI 850 that there are 2 celebrity qb’s in the entire league and that was Favre and Romo.The man has the talent he just needs to take his job serious!
by biz is winning on Jan 4, 2009 5:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I like the Romo that took over for Bledsoe.
I don’t like the smiles while the team has been in the dumps.I don’t like the Favre like throws off his back foot with no one open only to lead to a turnover and then the big smile.The kid has the talent i just think it’s time to mature.
by biz is winning on Jan 4, 2009 5:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he'll mature
he still is in his infancy as ab NFL qb…he’ll get better, fans just need to be patient, although I understand its not their nature.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 4, 2009 6:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Romo has been six years in the league
he’s 28 and gets a pass again and again, but Rookies that played one game in the league, you label them busts and want them cut…… Romo has regressed this year…
Norv Turner has done a good job with Rivers this year, did you notice him throwing the ball away and living for another play, something Romo needs to understand…… Rivers has been known to be one that throws it up for grabs and have boneheaded plays, but he’s getting better…Romo, not so much
by Deke on Jan 4, 2009 6:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
It was impossible for Romo to improve this season with the OL play and WRs free lancing….impossible. Rivers wouldn’t have had any success either under those circumstances.
Romo has only played 2.5 seasons….he’ll get better…much, much better especially if his teammates start playing better around him.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 4, 2009 6:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
That doesn’t mean he can hold the ball on his hip in the pocket in the face of a pass rush. That is something he can improve regardless of the performance of others around him, and he hasn’t.
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 4, 2009 6:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that doesn't make sense to me
qb is supposed to be looking down field to make a play, not worried about the pass rush
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 4, 2009 6:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Really - don't worry about the pass rush?
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 4, 2009 6:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if a qb is worried about the pass rush
he’ll never amount to anything.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 4, 2009 6:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
confusion
There is worry, and there is awareness. Romo’s pocket awareness is tragic right now.
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 4, 2009 6:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So if blitzers are near by, don’t worry about protecting the ball?
The pass rush is a part of football, and a quarterback who doesn’t pay attention to it is doomed to fail, repeatedly.
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 4, 2009 6:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and a qb who is looking at the pass rush
instead of looking down field, will never win..never.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 4, 2009 6:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Who said looking
Awareness. If they rush seven, you better be aware that they are coming and not hold the ball out to be stripped – again and again and again.
Does a QB ever bear any responsibility for a sack or a fumble in your world?
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 4, 2009 6:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if he fumbles without getting hit...yes
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 4, 2009 6:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
holding the ball
So he can dance around carrying the ball like the proverbial loaf of bread and that is good quarterbacking?
How many seconds must the line give him before the sack is his fault? 25?
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 4, 2009 6:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if Romo would have had any kind of time
in December to throw the ball, we’d be in the playoffs.
qb shouldn’t be running around carrying the ball like a loaf of bread to begin with.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 4, 2009 6:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so
can Romo improve the way he holds onto the ball, or do you think he is just fine in the face of the pass rush?
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 4, 2009 6:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Romo holding the ball doesn't matter
Him getting hit by defenders does.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 4, 2009 10:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
You find me a QB who went through an entire season without getting hit by a defender, and I will concede that how your boy holds the ball is of zero consequence.
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 4, 2009 10:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and you find me a qb
who nevers fumbles after getting hit, and I’ll concede the argument because i got news for you, all qbs are capable of fumbling when getting hit and it happens all the time.
Didn’t Eli fumble when Ware hit him a few weeks ago?
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 4, 2009 10:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
And it is the amount of fumbles that is the concern. Every QB will fumble, every QB will throw stupid INTs. Romo does too much of both. There is a pattern that is cause for concern. One play is not a body of work.
So does it really not matter how he holds the ball, or are you backing down from that assertion?
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 4, 2009 10:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
because he’s being pressured more than other qbs, thats the pattern.
Keep him clean, and he won’t fumble as much or throw as many INTs.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 4, 2009 10:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So to confirm
Tony Romo can stand in the pocket holding the football with complete abandon, ignore blitzes with impunity and that is okay with you because he should never be touched in a NFL game.
I think that any player who has the ball in their hands should hold it properly, including Romo.
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 4, 2009 10:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Switzer, introducing you to a brick wall
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 5, 2009 2:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it's a waste
of time to discuss this with you. Romo’s great, and nothing is his fault. OK? please hurry along.
by Joey2zs on Jan 4, 2009 10:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's a choker!
Starting with the fumble on the game winning fg in seattle.
Then the stupid interception against the giants in the final seconds last year.Like i said i like the Romo that took over for bledsoe.The tuna was still there so there was no goofing around, with Phillips in there this is a free for all.Jerry needs to put his ego aside if he really wants to win and turn this team over to a real coach not a puppet and that is all we’ve had around here since Jimmy left. That is a fact!
by biz is winning on Jan 4, 2009 6:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that last second INT against GMen
was a desparation throw with seconds left..hardly choking…get a clue.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 4, 2009 6:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what about terry glenn fumble?
"Protect the Romo, Save the Cowboys!!"
by Wmillion on Jan 4, 2009 6:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Parcells was a puppet?
Wow.
Romo’s “stupid” interception was on 4th and long, with 22 seconds left and no time outs. He had no obvious open receivers.
And this is one quarter after Anthony Fasano dropped a TD pass in the end zone and three plays after Patrick Crayton gave up on his route in the left corner of the end zone.
There were many reasons Dallas lost that game. Romo was about 5th or 6th down the list.
I am amazed at how EVERY post on this site eventually transmogrifies into a debate on Romo.
by Rafael Vela on Jan 4, 2009 8:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
right corner of the end zone.
Doesn’t matter. Crayton could have finished Staubach to Tony Hill II, but stopped running.
by Rafael Vela on Jan 4, 2009 8:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Get used to it, and it usually revolves around two main guys
Deke and Terry, sometimes I think they are the true yin & yang on romo. There are other players, but they are the main two and I stay out of these discussions because they are obstinate and it takes over every thread. I vote for a recommended fanpost for this neverending discussion that goes on all year. Similar to the one that Football outsiders had for some topic that I cannot even remember now.
Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!
by cowboy78 on Jan 4, 2009 9:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fasano dropped a TD pass in the end zone?
Raf,
It seems so long ago. Was that on the first drive in the 2nd half?
by NCCowboy on Jan 5, 2009 7:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nobodys letting Romo off the hook. He has to protect the ball better,
and some of his decisions have to improve but he is still a dam good prospect who needs some help.
by squidlo97 on Jan 4, 2009 6:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody?
What about Terry? According to him, if Romo learns to sense the pass rush, he will never win.
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 4, 2009 6:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you kind of did
you stated that a quarterback who is worried about the pass rush “will never win…never”.
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 4, 2009 6:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They say a QB is past his prime when he looking for rushers instead of recievers.
by squidlo97 on Jan 4, 2009 7:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
fine
Looking for the pass rush is one thing, sensing it is another. Romo needs to sense the pass rush to cut down on the fumbles.
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 4, 2009 7:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sensing a rush won't do that
not getting hit by defenders will
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 4, 2009 10:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Help please
If you sense the rush, you can protect the ball. Do you honestly see zero correlation between those two factors?
Can somebody help me out here? Is there any value to a QB sensing the pass rush and protecting the football?
Should a QB expect to never get hit Terry – is that realistic?
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 4, 2009 10:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Needs Help!
This team needs a real coach! we have all the talent we just need to stop hiring the Wade Phillips the Dave Campos and Chan Gailey’s of the football world.This team is a coach away from dominating this league and Jerry’s ego is getting in the way as much as he wants to win.
by biz is winning on Jan 4, 2009 6:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No doubt, Romo made quite a few bad decisions this year. He turned the ball over far too often, but I think these things can be rectified. He’s a smart guy. Besides, Romo was pretty banged up for most of the year, and the offensive line was just plain awful at times. It’s pretty difficult to find a top notch NFL QB. I still think Romo is the guy. If he gets healthy, the line blocks better, and the play calling is better next season, I believe we’ll see a much better Tony Romo.
by Cannon Jacques on Jan 4, 2009 6:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1.....If Romo played half as good as Rivers, we'd be in the playoff right now...
The dude has control of his team, poised in the pocket, and knows when to get rid of the ball….He’s the LEADER of his team….
A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.
President - Garrett MUST GO campaign -
by BoyzRback on Jan 4, 2009 11:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and if our OL played half as good as theirs
I’d agree we’d be in the playoffs too
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 5, 2009 7:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Rivers had nice protection and let’s take a look at the teams he beat to go on his winning streak and their D’s.
Oakland 27 OUT OF 32
KC-31OUT OF 32
TB 9 OUT OF 32
DEN-29 OUT OF 32
He played 3 of 6 worst D’s in the NFL, of course he will look good.. Let see him look magical vs Pitt, Balt, NYG,and Philly
"Protect the Romo, Save the Cowboys!!"
by Wmillion on Jan 5, 2009 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
River has Norv Turner...
Romo has Jason Garrett. Enough said.
0 = The number of Super Bowls the Eagles have won.
by gee-roj on Jan 5, 2009 9:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you see what Norv did for Alex Smith
"Protect the Romo, Save the Cowboys!!"
by Wmillion on Jan 5, 2009 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
somewhat unfair
Things were looking up for Norv and Alex before Norv left for SD.
In-YOUR-endo
by accidental innuendo on Jan 5, 2009 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Infancy would be a Matt Ryan,Joe Flacco.
Those 2 are in there first year and looked like they have been playing at least 5 more years than Romo.We have the team it’s time to stop making excuses.The coach needs to go and Romo needs to get his act together.
by biz is winning on Jan 4, 2009 6:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They both had bad ass run games and didnt ask the QBs to carry them
by squidlo97 on Jan 4, 2009 6:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly..purely bus drivers
Balt wins by their defense, not qb play.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 4, 2009 6:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bus drivers whose last stop was the playoffs
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
by Seanrude on Jan 4, 2009 6:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
might be true
but it won’t be because of them..their defense will be the reason.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 4, 2009 6:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well according to your logic if we had of made the playoffs it wouldnt have been because of Romo
Qbs dont win or lose games teams do, right
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 5, 2009 2:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He would have played a very important part
but yes, he doesn’t win or lose games, the Cowboys do.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 5, 2009 7:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If Jerry had an inkling Shanahan was
available he would have never made that committment to WP after the loss.
Here’s the conversation in the next 3 weeks.
wade I want you to fire Stewart. No can do Jerry.
OK wade you are fired.
hello Mr.Shanahan and Mr.Capers (DC).
by oneforthethumb on Jan 4, 2009 7:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How is Brady not a celebrity QB?
"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
by 5Blings on Jan 5, 2009 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What exactly does an extension mean for a coach. Nothing.
Whether he is signed for an extension or not if he has another season like this he is gone. If the players cant play hard then maybe we need new players.
by squidlo97 on Jan 4, 2009 5:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Romo tried to do to much and got little support from the OC or his line.
Name me 5 QBs you would take over Romo. I’ll give you Brady, Peyton, Brees, maybe Matty Ice mostly based on upside. Then who, NFC pro bowlers Eli(no)Warner(no). What about McNabb, Tavarious, Pennington,Flacco, Delhomme, Rivers,Roethlisberger, Kerry Collins(all playoff QBs) NO!!
Romo needs someone to reel him in. Commit us to the run more and beef up special team to give us better field postion. Get some body who can block and pick up a blitz. Unless we get that, Aikman in prime could lead us to the playoffs.
by squidlo97 on Jan 4, 2009 6:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Squidlo he really needs a coach to reel him in and teach him what it takes.
He’s got the talent but he needs a strong personality to guide him.Right now he does not have that and that has caused him to play like he’s in a parking lot.
by biz is winning on Jan 4, 2009 7:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree! I just dont think thats his fault. He feels he has got to make every play.
He has to many prima donnas to get the ball too. His line is letting him down and the play calling is inconsistent. The whole team lacks disipline. WRs have given up on too many routes.
by squidlo97 on Jan 4, 2009 7:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Squidlo
I’ll take Rivers; with a bad knee. I like his grit.
by CHARB on Jan 4, 2009 9:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd take Rivers as well..
A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.
President - Garrett MUST GO campaign -
by BoyzRback on Jan 4, 2009 11:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Peyton -duh
Brady -duh
Rivers – all the tools, and now showing it
Palmer – best pure passer behind Brady and Manning
Roethlisberger – all he does is, well, win
Brees – this is tough, because he plays in the offense that Romo should be playing in
Romo
"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
by 5Blings on Jan 5, 2009 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Im not a Rivers fan. He went 8-8. in the worst division in the AFC. He is an ass.
Yes he won a playoff game against Peyton but his D played a top notch game. Sproles went off and he was home. Throw in that Peyton never got the in over time and those B.S penalties(facemask,PI) and he got the breaks. I ve watched him play several games this year and he is a good QB but noway I take him over Romo. I like Roethlisberger but when he is asked to carry his team or is pressured he doesnt shine. He is reeled in as far as play calling goes. I would take a healthy Palmer but he would be my 5th.
by squidlo97 on Jan 5, 2009 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Roethlisberger doesn't win
The Steelers have the best defense in the league and actually would have won 15 games this season with a better qb.
Pittsburgh wins in spite of Ben, not because of him.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 5, 2009 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I bet Pitt management feels pretty stupid then
…for giving him a huge contract.
In-YOUR-endo
by accidental innuendo on Jan 5, 2009 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
they didn't have a choice
who were they going to play instead, Charlie Batch?
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 5, 2009 3:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
young super bowl qb
You have to keep him..
"Protect the Romo, Save the Cowboys!!"
by Wmillion on Jan 5, 2009 3:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They paid him like he deserves
A Superbowl winning QB that makes the throws he needs to make. Tell me you don’t want that. I dare you.
In-YOUR-endo
by accidental innuendo on Jan 5, 2009 5:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, I don't want Ben
Steelers won that SB depsite his pathetic 25 qb rating. You think Romo makes dumb decisions, Ben is the absolute king of them.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jan 5, 2009 8:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
At this point in time...
I’d rather also have Eli and McNabb (and I hate ’em both).
In-YOUR-endo
by accidental innuendo on Jan 5, 2009 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Raf, What do you think about the safety from the Rams, OJ Atogwe.
He is a free agant with 13 ints the last 2 seasons and had 6 fumble recoveries this past year. I hear he is going to be on the market.
by squidlo97 on Jan 4, 2009 6:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
he will if he doesn't command a big price tag he is money
"Protect the Romo, Save the Cowboys!!"
by Wmillion on Jan 4, 2009 6:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
only question
Did he pad his stats against Dallas this year?
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 4, 2009 6:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i believe he also had a good game in their victory against the skins this season.
"I got a fever. And the only prescription is more cowbell." -- Bruce Dickinson
www.brainfriednetwork.com [NEWS/SPORTS/FOOTBALL]
by silverblue5 on Jan 4, 2009 8:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We need a Coach!
We need a strong coach and stop hiring puppets!This team is there i can finally see it we just need someone to take control and get this team over the top.
by biz is winning on Jan 4, 2009 6:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Jerry just wants to keep doing what he's doing and not let anyone take credit if they win it all!
That is not going to happen as long as he’s making football decisions.He needs to to sit in the box and let a real coach take over all this talent and bring Dallas back to glory as Jimmy did.
by biz is winning on Jan 4, 2009 7:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
i believe he also had a good game in their victory against the skins this season.
"I got a fever. And the only prescription is more cowbell." -- Bruce Dickinson
www.brainfriednetwork.com [NEWS/SPORTS/FOOTBALL]
by silverblue5 on Jan 4, 2009 7:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sorry. i typed this in the wrong place... should've been in the OJ Atogwe thread.
"I got a fever. And the only prescription is more cowbell." -- Bruce Dickinson
www.brainfriednetwork.com [NEWS/SPORTS/FOOTBALL]
by silverblue5 on Jan 4, 2009 8:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Aint gonna happen like that?
This is the only way it’s gonna happen.Coaches that don’t control anything can’t win.
Maybe we can come up with a few but looking at history the coaches that have the power
have been more productive.I just can’t see this team winning when players are seeing that the coaches have no authority.
by biz is winning on Jan 4, 2009 7:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
It aint gonna happen like that because Jerry isnt going anywhere or changing his hat.
Complaining about Jerry is like like complaining the sky is blue. You can do it all you want but it still wont change.
by squidlo97 on Jan 5, 2009 7:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
apples and oranges
coughlin holds his players accountable and is a tough-nosed coach
phillips is the complete opposite
"I got a fever. And the only prescription is more cowbell." -- Bruce Dickinson
www.brainfriednetwork.com [NEWS/SPORTS/FOOTBALL]
by silverblue5 on Jan 4, 2009 7:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Wade phillips,Dave Campo,Chan Gailey and Barry Switzer are all puppets.
Even though Switzer won he started the whole puppet mentality.There is a pattern here of puppet coaches and Jerry is thinking that he is going to win this way.The only reason he won with switzer was because this team already knew what it took to win and there was leadership and chemistry amongst the players.This current team has no clue and is not going to win any time soon as there is no leader.
Stats or names do not make leaders,winners make leaders and we don’t have any.
by biz is winning on Jan 4, 2009 8:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Parcels was the same and many hated his ways and felt he was the reason we lost.
However, Im a Parcels fan and I like a hard nose coach who players fear.
by squidlo97 on Jan 5, 2009 7:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As an on the field coach...
the game had passed Tuna by.
He still has the personnel skills.
"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
by 5Blings on Jan 5, 2009 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So that's why Shanahan and Holmgren are taking the year off!
So they can have plastic surgery, to add two ax%holes, so Jerry’s hand will fit up their backsides!
Will they be puppets too if Jerry hires one of them?
by Rafael Vela on Jan 4, 2009 9:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
They won't be puppets
Which is why it is unlikely Jerry will hire them. This is the dilemma that confronts our Owner/GM: does he want to win badly enough to cede control of this team to a competent Head Coach or will he satisfy himself with another year of Wade and extending our playoff drought another year. Its a sad statement that the Cardinals, with absentee ownership, have won more playoff games in the last 12 years than the Cowboys.
by NCCowboy on Jan 5, 2009 8:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jerry can't wait a year to hire a coach.
Who’s going to pay 500 to thousand bucks a ticket to watch Wade work his magic next year?
by CHARB on Jan 4, 2009 9:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah im sure every home game next year will be completely empty
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 5, 2009 2:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the point of the "New Coach in '10" rumors is a nw coach regardless of record
I think an extension for Phillips is a moot point. If we make at least a good playoff run next year, he’ll be back. Anything less than that, and I don’t care if he gets a 10 year extension before the 09 season, he won’t be here in ’10.
"When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time." -Max McGee
by BigDinSC on Jan 4, 2009 10:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I strongly disagree
You saw what happened in Seattle this year?
It comes out that their HC, who’s pretty damn good at what he does, is a lame duck. The team even announces who the new guy will be.
And a playoff team from ‘07 crumbles. Injuries didn’t help, but neither did the HC’s retirement tour, which was announced before camp.
The rumors build that Jerry wants a big name and has one lined up for ’10 and this team, THIS team with THESE players, goes down the toilet.
by Rafael Vela on Jan 5, 2009 2:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree with your strongly disagree
Our corrupt DNA owner/GM has really painted himself into a corner. There is no way he can go into the 2009 campaign with Wade Phillips as Head Coach and succeed, the reason being the problems of this team are primarily head & heart related, not talent related (except at the safety position). Phillips has no track record of fixing problems of this order, and without the security of a contract extension, will not have the stick needed to allow him to keep speaking softly.
JJT writes in the DMN today that elevating Jason Garrett to the HC position would cause a mutiny. Does anyone agree with this?
Perhaps what might save Jerry Jones is if someone does hire Garrett as a head coach, giving him the pretext to reconsider his “continuity” plan and hire someone like a Shanahan or Holmgren who can get this offense progressing in the right direction again.
by NCCowboy on Jan 5, 2009 7:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a straw man argument
There are arguments for letting Wade go and hiring other people.
I see no argument for elevating Jason Garrett.
What’s the likelihood of this happening? Less than hiring Shanahan or
Holmgren, which are unlikely scenarios as well.
It is the scenario most likely to incite anger and debate,
Hence, it’s the headline.
by Rafael Vela on Jan 5, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's knock that straw man down
I don’t understand why an editor would permit a columnist to slip in a conclusory statement such as “Garrett’s elevation to head coach would cause a mutiny” without developing the assertion first. After all, if after Wade’s first season the team went 9-7 and there was such widespread dissension in the ranks and Garrett was interviewing for the head coach position of other teams, would it have been so unlikely for Jones to not fire Philllips and promote Garrett? If so, then why? What exactly has been Garrett’s downfall? People throw out a lot of conclusions (e.g., he was over his head, outschemed by other coaches, didn’t fully utilize the talent available), but without a lot of facts to support those conclusions, especially a contrast to what he did last year compared to this year. Was Sparano that important? Has Garrett been over his head? If so, didn’t Jerry know this before giving him that big raise? Has anyone adequately reported on this issue? If so, I haven’t read it.
by NCCowboy on Jan 5, 2009 11:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Its hard to argue with that point because history seems to back you.
I just have a hard time with the fact that a longer contract for the coach fixes that. Reality is a contract in the NFL means nothing. Couldnt Holmgren problem stem from the team got old. Lost their top 4 WRs. The QB was hurt all year and the fact that Holmgren has been there to long and the players tuned him out.
by squidlo97 on Jan 5, 2009 7:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Longer contract does help
What has contributed to making the NFL the most popular sport in our land is the fact that the players do not have guaranteed contracts. Salary caps and the effect that bonuses paid to cut players has on salary caps does make it more difficult to cut some players, but the fact remains each player is playing on a 1 year contract from season to season. This makes them, or should make them, hungrier. Ideally, it is the head coach who carries the most weight in deciding whom to retain or cut from season to season. That makes him someone to be feared, or at the least, someone whom you desire to impress. But, if you know that your head coach won’t be around the next offseason . . .
by NCCowboy on Jan 5, 2009 7:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If a longer contract means nothing then exactly where is the threat.
How many coaches sign an extension, stink it up and are fired the same year. Fear of a coach I feel has more to do with the personality of the coach not his contract.
by squidlo97 on Jan 5, 2009 10:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But do contracts mean nothing in Dallas?
When has this organization ever dumped guys on a whim?
Jerry has been around 20 years. He’s got a track record. He’s always given his coaches ample time to sink or swim.
And we’ve got plenty of time to see that this team’s problems go deeper than the head coach. They loafed on Parcells and they’ve loafed on Wade.
by Rafael Vela on Jan 5, 2009 11:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You are depressing me
Someone throw me a lifeline.
by NCCowboy on Jan 5, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So the answer is signing Wade for a 2 yr extension and the players will jump in line.
I think the coaches authority is undermined by too much of Jones presence. I truely believe he doesnt undermine his coaches purposely and I truely believe the respect he has for their job. I think he talks too much at the wrong times. Plays P.T. Barnum too much always looking to sell the brand name.
I think Jerry should as well as coaches do is self scout himself. Self scout the GM Jerry. When the team is in down years or rebuilding then HBO, People magazine, National Enquirer ect.. is ok. When the team is in it window for winning championship then circle the wagons, avoid the distractions and back away a little. Allow the teams execution, play, and winning be your selling. There cant be Jerrys guys and the HCs guys. There has to be Jerrys coach and the Coaches guys.
I love Jerry the owner. I just think Jerry the GM score very high (9-10) on 8 out of 10 subjects but scores low on a couple. His drafting used to be a big problem but I believe Parcels helped him alot and, as Raf has pointed out in the past, set a template of the type of guys we are looking for and has everyone on the same page looking for the same thing. this of course helps but also allows you to get better at looking for these guys every year. I point this out to say that Jerry can and is still learning. He just needs to sit back and and scout himself hard and improve.
by squidlo97 on Jan 5, 2009 11:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he's saying that we have to sign Wade to an extension
Just that there has to be a CHANCE of an extension. If the players know that there’s NO way Wade will be back next season then there’s no way that Wade will be able to lead this team this season. It’ll be over before it starts. Have to leave that carrot dangling out even if Jerry is already 100% sure he won’t be bringing Wade back next year.
by kameleon_o on Jan 5, 2009 11:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
All I'm trying to say is
If the team underperforms next year again, we SHOULD have a new coach in ‘10. On the flip side, no matter what Jerry is lining up, if Phillips has a successful campaign next year, I don’t think he’ll be gotten rid of. Jerry is generally good to his employees, and if Wade delivers a Super Bowl in the first year of Jerry’s new stadium, he’ll be back. To call Wade Phillips a Holmgren type lame duck is wrong, because there has been no announcement of a plan to replace him. The reality for the players is that if they play poorly, Wade gets fired, and if they come together and play the way they’re capable of, he’ll be around. So I don’t think they’ll tune him out as a lame duck, because I think most of the players like Wade and don’t want to see him gone.
"When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time." -Max McGee
by BigDinSC on Jan 5, 2009 9:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good points, but . . .
I think the players have already tuned out Wade, even before he became a lame duck. I agree the players may like Wade, but like and respect are 2 different things.
by NCCowboy on Jan 5, 2009 9:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well said
Can’t go into next season saying “One more year and your done Wade”
by Brendan Scolari on Jan 5, 2009 3:15 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Holmgren situation in '09?
Does anyone else see a similarity to the Seahawks this year and what we have to look forward to next year?
Holmgren made it known he was not returning at the beginning of this year and look at the Seahawk’s season. JJ stated we lack continuity if you fire a coach after two years and wants to give the Hillbilly Clown a third year to get smarter(are you kidding me?). The only way Hillbilly is not a lame duck coach is if there’s talk of a possible extension after ‘09. Has anyone heard anything about an extension? Me neither. it’s futile to discuss an extension if the Hillbilly Clown doesn’t have the tools to be a mediocre head coach, save a good one.
Can you imagine a season in which all coaches and players know the head coach cannot effectively do his job AND is a lame duck? That’s what we have to look forward to.
It’s very frustrating for me as a fan to see the fingers point in every direction from special teams, to Romo, to the offensive line, etc… because I agree with all of those. But, if you are pointing fingers in all these directions, this means we have no direction. Wade needs to be fired in ‘08 or we can write off ’09. It’s almost as if JJ is okay with waiting for failure next year before making a change where it’s needed, AT HEAD COACH!!. The only way I put up with the decision not to fire Hillbilly this year is you guarantee Cowher in 2010.
by cow_fanatic on Jan 5, 2009 2:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
At one time for several games Seattle was without their top 4 WRs and QB.
Their D had injuries, they are 2 years remove from their SB window. Yes they underachieved but was it the lame duck coach or being old and injured.
by squidlo97 on Jan 5, 2009 2:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Wade needs a long term extension.......and a say so in the offense
Jerry Jones beheaded Wade last year with the “Jason Garrett overpaying” and the future HC bs that took a life of it’s own……..IMHO—THat’s why we are here clamoring about the cowboys needing strong leaders…….
Unfortunately the Cowboys are leaderless….
A HC must be in charged of all facets of game …….defense, offense, special teams and players to fit the coaches philosophy of winning…….
It became apparent the defense bought into Wade’s philosophy when he took over the D play callling….it was also apparent the offensive players lost confidence in JG by the comment made at the end of the season……
Give Wade a three year extension and direct involvement in the offense as well as the Defense so that the players look to him as the HC……
by Geeter on Jan 6, 2009 5:42 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
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