How Many Spots Will Be Open on the '09 Cowboys' Defense?
by Rafael Vela on Jan 8, 2009 1:19 AM CST
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PrintThis is normally a question that is raised just before camp, but Adam Jones' release and Zach Thomas' certain departure have me thinking there could be a lot of turnover on a defense that ranked 8th in yardage allowed this year.
Here are the 26 '08 defensive players, with the numbers for each of their units in parentheses:
DL (6)
Sure to return (4)
- Jay Ratliff
- Marcus Spears
- Stephen Bowen
- Jason Hatcher
Question Mark (1)
- Chris Canty
Likely Gone (1)
- Tank Johnson
I think Johnson is almost certainly gone and Canty is 50/50. His return will likely depend on what other teams offer him. He had an underwhelming year for a guy on a salary drive, though he played much better in the second half of the year than in the first.
Nose tackle was ignored last year. I don't think Dallas can afford to overlook it again. I expect one of the Cowboys' first three picks to be used on a big run stuffer.
Linebackers (9)
Returning (5)
- Demarcus Ware
- Anthony Spencer
- Greg Ellis
- Bradie James
- Bobby Carpenter
Maybe (3)
- Kevin Burnett
- Justin Rogers
- Carlos Polk
Gone (1)
- Zach Thomas
Carpenter is a black-hat Cowboy, but he's under contract so he's returning. Dallas can't dump him, lose Thomas and also risk losing Burnett in free agency. That leave only Bradie James at inside linebacker, unless Justin Rogers returns.
Burnett will be a tough call. He's very good in the nickel, but does not have the size to play every down as a 3-4 ILB. He's probably a better fit in a Tampa-2 scheme and if a team like the Colts, Bucs, Lions or Bears waves money at him, he could leave.
Inside linebacker will be addressed, in free agency or the draft. More than likely, Dallas will dip into both talent pools.
Cornerback (6)
Returning (5)
- Terence Newman
- Anthony Henry
- Mike Jenkins
- Orlando Scandrick
- Alan Ball
Adam Jones is gone and I don't know if the Cowboys will make a high signing to replace him. The rookies Jenkins and Scandrick look like players and Ball played very well when he took the field. Dallas may use another late-round pick on a corner, but they'll spend higher picks on....
Safety (5)
Sure bets (1)
- Ken Hamlin
Probably (1)
- Roy Williams
Maybe (1)
- Keith Davis
Likely Gone (2)
- Courtney Brown
- Pat Watkins
What a mess. Hamlin can play safety. Williams can play the run well. Davis is Williams lite, not as good versus the run and just as weak versus the pass. It's popular to predict Roy and his big salary will depart, but with Davis as the only other SS alternative, he's likely back by default.
Davis played hard, but let's remember that Dallas cut him last year. He'll be back if Dallas keeps five safeties or be back on the bubble if the Cowboys keep four.
Regardless, Dallas will probably draft two safeties, or draft one and sign a budget veteran.
Overall --The Cowboys could be looking for as many as seven or eight new defenders, depending on the Canty and Burnett negotiations. That means a busy offseason for the pro and college scouting staffs, and for us.
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Great recap, Raffy
I for one would LOVE to see us re-sign Burnett and see what the kid can do with three downs.
Just from looking at him in his limited playing time, you can tell the kid has good instincts, excellent speed, and obviously has a knack for coverage.
As you mention, yeah, he’s undersized. He’s had some injury concerns in the past, and he may or may not be able to handle getting pummeled by 350 lb. guards 40 plays a game. But I think letting him walk away may turn around to bite us in the ass … the kid has too much raw talent just to toss him aside and say he isn’t right for the scheme.
Even though I’d like Burnett to get the recognition he deserves, and though I agree completely that he’d likely do better in a Tampa-2/4-3 read scheme, I kind of hope that no other team offers him serious dollars, and we can get our third down stomper back and at a discount.
Sure, it would be nice to keep him
but if another team offers him a starting job and Dallas can only offer more of the same, what do you think he’s gonna do?
Unless the Cowboys can get a 340 lb. Jamal Williams clone, so Burnett can play Donnie Edwards II, he’s going to leave.
I expect you're correct
Just a shame to see him (probably) go. I’ve had high hopes for him since we drafted him.
by no1cowboysfan on Jan 8, 2009 1:55 AM CST up reply actions
Like a baseball team, got to be strong up the middle
Players on the edge may command the higher salaries, but unless Cowboys get stronger up the middle, beginning with a run plugging NT, we will continue to get gashed by Brandon Jacobs, Stephen Jackson and Laron McClain. Zach Thomas was an improvement over Ayedole, but we have to get stronger (physically and performance-wise) at that position. SS as well.
The man himself said he was leaving after the Eagles game
so I take him at his word.
What's the story with Pat Watkins
People seemed cautiously optimistic coming out of training camp, and it seems injuries got the better of him. Why are you so certain he’s gone? I could easily have missed the news, but interested in people’s thoughts.
Duane Thomas, Calvin Hill, Tony Dorsett, Emmitt Smith ... and now BOTH Marion Barber and Felix Jones
His neck injuries gave ham a lot of trouble.
He may get one more look see in training camp, if he isn’t a free agent.
His neck gave him trouble because he doesn't know how to tackle
I thought he could of been cut ast preseason…..He’s nothing more than a backup at best and a special teams player that takes too many penalties…
I'll save you the trouble
1. Can’t cover, after three years.
2. Couldn’t tackle worth beans this year;
3. Had more penalties than any of the other 25 players on this list.
What good reasons are there to keep him?
How about moving Roy "Thong" Williams
Just a thought, how about bulking up and moving R"T"W to outside linebacker?
Roy
What would u do w/ Ware and Spencer. They would never move those two for RW.
by Snatchandgrab on Jan 8, 2009 3:27 PM CST up reply actions
Huh?
Roy’s what, 225 lbs? Demarcus Ware and Kevin Burnett cover better than him right now.
To play OLB he would have to add at least 20 lbs.
And then what? Jay Ratliff could probably cover better than him at that weight.
Could he rush the passer like Ellis or Ware? Not a chance.
We’re stuck with him, until a quality, young SS jumps onto this roster.
Zach
I thought he played great this year and was at times the fire and leader of the defense. Is it just contract reasons that he will be leaving or something else?
Has anyone been unhappy with his performance this year?
he said
he doesnt fit well playing the ILB since he’s used to playing the MLB
but Bradie James plays that so u cant just move him out
but Zach later said that he talked about maybe leaving the cowboys out of emotion and he might stay and he’ll think about it
i liked zach thomas this year…he was 2nd in tackles and he wasnt amazing but it was a jump over akin ayodele
"Aw Shucks" - Wade Phillips
WOW IHATE ESPN. ON mike and mike
Somehow ed werner turned talking abouto pacman and said the same thing is in store for TO. He said cowboys front office is consider TO “decline” of production and will cut him. First off there is no decline in production second i have to go to work now im late wow im fired up ok just wanted to let you know.
What the French?! Toast!
Why were you watching ESPN in the first place?
When will you learn?
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 8, 2009 6:07 AM CST up reply actions
Let me count the ways
His production is declining.
He is getting older.
His emotional baggage now greatly outweighs his production on the field.
My instincts tell me that it is Garrett or Owens. Owens has very successfully waged a campaign to undermine his offensive coordinator, the latest success was getting his own QB to publicly throw Garrett under the bus—perhaps to distract our attention from his own performance problems. If Garrett does not take a HC job elsewhere, my instincts tell me that Owens gets cut.
-1
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 8, 2009 7:33 AM CST up reply actions
Now it's TO's fault when Romo says something?
Did TO also make Romo send the punt team off the field?
by Baked Potato Soup on Jan 8, 2009 7:51 AM CST up reply actions
I'll answer your question with a question
Why did Romo choose the post-game conference after one of the worst debacles in team history to air his complaints regarding the offensive scheme?
Recall that it was back in November that Owens, when interviewed by Deion Sanders on the NFL Network, stated that the decline in his numbers were the result of the Cowboys’ offense, stating that it lacks flexibility and that defenses have caught up to Jason Garrett’s scheme.
So, I can see only two valid conclusions that can be drawn from this data: (1) Both Romo and Owens are right that teams have caught up to the scheme, or (2) they are both deflecting their own culpability by blaming the scheme rather than their own performance. Remember that in the 13 games Romo started, the Cowboys averaged 25.1 points and gained 370.5 yards. In 2007 when he started every game the Cowboys averaged 28.4 points and 365.7 yards per game. Those numbers are similar. I think Raf has made the point very well on this blog that our main problem on offense has not been our scheme, but our execution, particularly with the offensive line. By the numbers, Garrett has proven that he can succeed as an offensive coordinator. The question we should really focus upon now is whether Garrett and Owens can coexist, and whether it is even necessary for them to try? Starting over with a new offensive coordinator is not the answer. I have enough faith that this offense has enough weapons to succeed without Owens and believe, again on nothing more than sheer faith, that we will be a better team without Owens.
It was the last game of the season?
I still don’t see how TO is responsible for what Romo says. Is Romo a child?
3 more points per game is the difference between the #18 scoring offense and the #8 scoring offense, so I think that’s a lot. It would have gotten us at least one more win, maybe more.
If we’re comparing numbers, the offensive line allowed less sacks per attempt with Romo starting this year than they did last year, and the team averaged more yards per carry. Also, if you’re saying that the offense was basically the same this year as last year, doesn’t that include the offensive line? If the line was significantly poorer, then shouldn’t the offensive yardage be significantly less?
In the 13 games Romo started, they attempted more than 35 passes in 6 of them, losing 5. Going back to last year, 8 of Romo’s 10 worst games were games where he attempted more than 35 passes, and the other 2 were games that the Cowboys still won. This year, the Cowboys averaged more per carry than they did last year, and Tashard Choice, the lead back at the end of the season, averaged over 5 yards per carry. So how did Garrett respond to facing some of the toughest defenses in the league at the end of the year? More passes. If the line was pass blocking poorly in those games, how did Garrett respond? More passes. You know who else is saying that opposing defenses have caught up to Garrett’s scheme? Opposing defenses.
by Baked Potato Soup on Jan 8, 2009 8:34 AM CST up reply actions
Ray Lewis and Ed Reed have said that
And, I have written elsewhere on this blog, you should strongly consider their motives before putting too much weight on those opinions. Do you really think they are trying to do the Cowboys a favor?
What are their motives?
What do they care one way or another? So that’s key players on our offense and key players on opposing defenses saying the same thing, but you’re saying they’re all lying?
by Baked Potato Soup on Jan 8, 2009 8:40 AM CST up reply actions
+1
Players from our own offense and opposing defences have criticised the offensive system, but somehow from that you conclude that everything is TO’s fault. I dont follow your reasoning
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 8, 2009 8:42 AM CST up reply actions
I am not saying it is all TO's fault
What I am saying is that TO has waged a very effective campaign to undermine Jason Garrett. He begain through his media proxies, primarily Deion Sanders, and then in November he did it very openly in the NFL Network interview with Sanders. And why we would he do that? Two reasons that I can think of: (1) its true or (2) he had been hearing for weeks, beginning with the Redskins very successfully shutting him down, that he had lost a step and teams now knew how to defense him—Owens is a proud man and was looking to deflect.
So my point is: I don’t believe TO and Garrett can coexist. And, playing armchair Owner/GM, I go with Garrett. We have enough offensive weapons on this team. But the determining factor between consistently winning and losing in this league is coaching . Provide competent coaches with smart and high character players over talented but egocentric players and you will consistently win—the Patriots model. Jason Garrett is more than just a competent coach and will only get better. Owens is not going to get better.
Great question
Why do Reed and Lewis care? How many times do opposing players call out another team’s playcalling or any weakness for that matter? “Gee, I really hope the Cowboys try to run the same offense against us the next time we play them, because its very simple and we have it all figured out”. I think it is very rare. For one, it alerts your opponent to a possible weakness. Its giving them free intelligence. It doesn’t make sense for them to do it unless they had some other reason, and that reason is the fact that Garrett snubbed the Ravens last year by not accepting their HC position.
yeah obviously
and TO probably gave them the idea right? Because everything isTO’s fault, right?
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 8, 2009 8:47 AM CST up reply actions
So everyone's just out to get Garrett?
So TO, Romo, the other WRs that met with Garrett to question the offense, and now the Ravens are all just ganging up on Jason Garrett? Is it because he has red hair? That must be it.
by Baked Potato Soup on Jan 8, 2009 8:48 AM CST up reply actions
I really don't want to go down the who said what and why rabbit hole
The real issue here is the direction the Cowboys go on offense. Do you stick with the proven playcaller, whose talents are obviously recognized around the league as testified by his HC interviews with the Broncos and Lions, or do you stick with the 36 year old wide receiver who won’t be happy unless the entire offense revolves around him and will make sure everyone on the sideline and locker room knows it when he is not happy.
Proven playcaller?
What about the proven WR who is on his way ot the HOF?
And how has JG “proven” himself? He has only been coaching in the league for 2 years
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 8, 2009 8:44 AM CST up reply actions
No. A PROVEN playcaller...
would be Mike Shanahan.
0 = The number of Super Bowls the Eagles have won.
Well then why did you write
“Do you stick with the proven playcaller, whose talents are obviously recognized around the league as testified by his HC interviews with the Broncos and Lions”
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 8, 2009 9:08 AM CST up reply actions
I didn't write that..
NCCowboy did.
I was merely trying to add to your point about JG not being a proven play-caller. We’re on the same side of this argument, brother.
0 = The number of Super Bowls the Eagles have won.
Proven play caller vs. proven play makers?
TO has been a consistent play maker for 10 years, and Romo for 3. They have a longer track record than Garrett, don’t they?
by Baked Potato Soup on Jan 8, 2009 8:45 AM CST up reply actions
The off had the majority of the penalites this year, and they had more penalties that
probably killed more off drives and kept points off the board.
Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!
Getting rid of TO
would be good for the team, but don’t know if Jerry would take the hit, money-wise.
Dallas will be a better team with Owens in the rearview mirror.
Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.
+1
Ever since the Green Bay game when he demonstrated he coulnd’t beat press coverage everyone had the formula for stopping him and the offense suffered. Whlie stilll a good receiver TO is not the dominant force he used to be and, to me, not worth the money or the headaches he will bring in 2009. While he has not resorted to the sideline rants that made him famous he appears to be stirring things up in the locker room and causing division amoung the ranks.
I say we move him out and look for young receiver who has the potential to make a contribution next year (like a Desean Jackson or an Eddie Royal). Let’s see what RW2 can do after a full offseason and trainging camp. Ausin is making strides and, despite his tendency to shoot off his mouth, Crayton has shown he can be productiive.
Garrett needs to get a clue!
Two factors
in beating press coverage.
1. Positon: Line up in the same position all the time and press works. Move him around JG.
2. Time: Romo has like .5 seconds to throw and against press coverage that is just not sufficient.
Even Randy Moss doesn’t beat press coverage if Brady/Cassel have to throw it too fast.
What is with ESPN's obsession with Owens?
Now they are talking about how Owens has spent all his time dividing up the Cowboys locker room as if they know this to be a fact. As if they are actually there and a part of every intimate detail of what takes place in a Cowboys’ season.
Mark Mosley opines on what is that Jerry Jones should do with Owens as if he and not Jones that knows how to put together a team capable of winning 3 super bowls in 4 years.
The problem is not Owens. The problem is winning and the biggest obstacle the Cowboys have in achieving that is coaching. They are just not a well coached team, period.
Put the Cowboys up against a team that has half the talent but a superior coaching staff and the Cowboys will lose at 7 out of 10 times.
0 = The number of Super Bowls the Eagles have won.
Well TO did have a decline in his production from last year
but last year was one of his best years. I think if JJ makes a move to try and get a guy like TJ from Cin it could be a move to try and practice what WP was saying in regards to change. TO will be 35-36 during next season and the 8 mil per year is not justified for the type of production he had this year. Now as far as Turders comments, it is like everything else, take it with a grain of salt and until you hear it officially the best thing to do is ignore his opinions, because that is basically what he is reporting. His opinion based on what his “sources” have said. I would be in favor of a TO cut if he truly was going to be a problem with the WP plan to move foward and change the mentality of this team, but not just because Turder thinks it will happen.
Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!
TOss numbers were still pretty good this year
And it costs more to cut him than keep him, so he’ll be around next year
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 8, 2009 8:46 AM CST up reply actions
Yes but it is a possiblity, and JJ could work the new contracts he does to adjust for the
uncapped season in 2010, so I would not consider the idea dead until after the draft and we see how the team picks and if they try to trade for WR. If there are negotiations with a team to get another WR that is a proven vet then most likely TO is going to be cut. So it has yet to be determined, and will be a constant topic of discussion for the rest of the offseason.
Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!
Pacman and TO and others
I also think T.O. is out of here and do not think we will match offers that Burnett and Canty receive.
In addition, I think Shanahan is going to replace Philips, especially if Garrett leaves. Shanahan’s strengths are exactly what our offense needs, expecially for our under performing OL. It is true he likes a zone blocking scheme, but he strikes me as someone who will scheme around his talent, not the other way around.
Jerry will do everything he can to right this ship independent of any statements he has made regarding Philips.
If TO is indeed out of here than the Cowboys will miss the Playoffs again in ’09…
Who are defenses going to worry about if Owens is gone?
Roy Williams? I’ve seen no evidence that he’s capable of becoming a legitimate treat in this offense (though I’m hopeful).
Miles Austin? I love this kid but he is much more effective when the defense is rolling their coverage towards Owens, which opens things up for him. I don’t see Austin beating double teams which he might have to do without Owens.
Patrick Crayton? Same issue as Austin except that he’s not as good.
Even Witten’s production will suffer if there is no real treat on the outside to open up the middle.
0 = The number of Super Bowls the Eagles have won.
+1
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 8, 2009 8:48 AM CST up reply actions
Take a look at the standings
and you will notice that we haven’t done well in the post season with all the defenses “worrying” about Owens.
He would dazzle at times, then drop an easy pass or give up on a route. The only reason for keeping him around is the money it would cost to cut him.
Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.
All the Cowboys have to do is run more and pass less.
Problems solved. Send me a check, Jerry.
by Baked Potato Soup on Jan 8, 2009 7:25 AM CST reply actions
they need a line that run block first
before they can do that.
0 = The number of Super Bowls the Eagles have won.
4.3 yards per carry.
Tashard Choice average over 5 yards per carry, and he got the bulk of his work against the toughest defenses in the league.
by Baked Potato Soup on Jan 8, 2009 8:10 AM CST up reply actions
That average was bolstered somewhat by a surprise draw play here and there.
But with the exception of the 2nd Redskins game, this team could not run when the defense was excepting it.
This O-line is great if they have everyone lined up in front and they can just tee-off and maul the person in front of them. They get into a lot of trouble if the defenders start shifting or stunting or running run blitzes.
0 = The number of Super Bowls the Eagles have won.
It’s not just running more and passing less or vice versa….
It’s about knowing when to run and when to pass. It’s about knowing when a defense will be caught off-guard and how to continue to keep them off balance. Norv Turner for example is a master at this. Jason Garrett, not so much. I, sitting at home could tell what play he was about to call so certainly the opponents could do the same.
0 = The number of Super Bowls the Eagles have won.
Obviously you have to mix it up.
But the Cowboys current mix is too pass heavy, particularly in the games that they lose. I look at the first Washington game and the Steelers game where the Cowboys should have run more, or continued to run in the 4th quarter, and ended up losing.
I agree that the play calling is predictable, having that exact discussion upthread a little way. But if that’s the case, it’s not fair to blame the line when other teams know what is coming too. With run blocking though, you can win the matchup even if the other team knows what’s coming.
by Baked Potato Soup on Jan 8, 2009 8:53 AM CST up reply actions
With good execution on pass plays you should aslo be able to succeed even if the opposing team know what you are going to do
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 8, 2009 9:10 AM CST up reply actions
Most of the time.
But a lot more can go wrong on pass plays, too. Romo was in the top 10 in the league in passer rating, so most of the time, our pass plays worked out. But when you are passing all of the time, 40+ times per game, it’s easier for defenses to disrupt you.
by Baked Potato Soup on Jan 8, 2009 10:37 AM CST up reply actions
while this is true
The first washington game was a playcalling disaster. Washington absolutely blanketed TO and our other receivers, Romo was forcing the ball to him cause he had nowhere else to go. We struggled somewhat running the ball in the first half, but we had reasonable success at the start of the second and all of a sudden we just stopped.
Romo apparently changed many of the plays at the line, saying that the defense dictated that. That bothered me – we obviously have no confidence in the run game to come through when we need it.
The only game we ran the ball well against a good defense was the second washington game, with those outside runs on columbos side.
please ,the line can run bloc kIt allows them to attack and maul people their weakness is pass blocking.
Don't believe everything you think.
Your causes are cute!!!
o line
i think the o line is pretty good. They struggled when Kosier went out. His replacement wasn’t good enough for a pro team (Proctor) and the next replacement was very good (Holland), but he ended up getting hurt too. Its the Hard Knocks curse.
by Snatchandgrab on Jan 8, 2009 3:30 PM CST up reply actions
the OL is pretty good...very funny
thats like saying Pacrat is a model citizen and T.O hates himself.
In Romo we Trust
NT
Raf – besides the two big guys from BC what other players could the Boys consider rounds 2-4? What about Spears at NT? I figured they would make that move last year so it must be a good reason why they didn’t.
With Zach leaving then a ILB is a must.
Spears at NT is a total failure
look to him in the Baltimore games, on one of those two runs he gets blown away, 5 yards upfield in to Brady James’s lap
by AustonianAggie on Jan 8, 2009 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
The draft is fine for building towards the future and all but don’t you want to win now?
Very rarely do rookies come in and make an immediate impact. I think the cowboys would help themselves more by getting more budget, roll playing veterans who could split time with these rookies the team is trying to groom.
0 = The number of Super Bowls the Eagles have won.
Just show me production!
It’s easy to blame Owens or Garrett, but shore up this O-line and get some quality backups and watch this offense soar. To me it’s as simple as that. Romo is among the best escape artists I’ve seen, but the pressure really seems to gets to him mentally. He’s not unshakable, and when he’s constantly under duress he’s mistake prone. Even when the line occasionally offered up good protection he still seemed to be in perpetual panic mode because his mind was already thwarted.
Defense!
Will you all stop with the TO Romo Garrrett stuff. The post is about “How Many Spots Will Be Open on the ‘09 Cowboys’ Defense?” Sounds like a bunch of girls and Turders on the post today.
by steelyeyedmissle on Jan 8, 2009 9:26 AM CST reply actions
That's what happens whenever anyone is negative about TO or Romo
There’s a group of people who have reflex reactions to anything other than praise about those 2. No rational discussion is allowed.
by StillHateTheGiants on Jan 8, 2009 9:59 AM CST up reply actions
draft for the future
I dont think it is a good time to make that statement, considering felix, jenkins, marty b., choice, and scandrick contributed significantly this year. I realize this is not the norm, but if they can hit on half that many again this upcoming year, than we could be in very good shape to win now.
Garrett proven play caller? 2 years OC in the NFL, 1 with Sparano at co OC, so lets analyze garret and his playcalling on this year, which was actually just him calling the plays and game planning. Pretty underwhelming, I would say, Also, with the grumblings from TO, and Tony, I think it is best to get a new system in here. It seems as though Garrett has worn thin on these guys. On that note, I would like to see and OC, or HC that gets on Romo for throwing pics, or at least gives him that disgusted parcells face. I like Romo, but I think he has much room for improvement, and with that improvement could be 1 of the best if not the very best, pear shape or not, and for a pear he is pretty damn fast.
This defense needs an infusion of better talent
Right now the only truly quality defensive players that are coming back are Ware, James, Ratliff, Newman, and Scandrick.
We need to draft defense heavily and maybe bring in a FA or two.
In Romo we Trust
Don't give up
on Jenkins just yet.
Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.
When you watch Jenkins..
in the future playing FS for us, you’ll understand why we drafted him, and you’ll see why alot of people said he has Brian Dawkins skills. He is not an exceptional CB (yet). He probably will be changed to FS someday down the road.
"Amongst the enemy's Lair, there will always be a DallasPalace!"
by DallasPalace on Jan 8, 2009 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
He seems to avoid contact
Not something you want in a corner, but something you cannot live with in a Safety. He does not have a Brian Dawkins make up.
They need better players?
i see where you’re going with this. Interesting. I had thought all along they would target worst players and see how that works. But an infusion of better talent… now that’s interesting. Yeah, I think that could work.
Fine Defense
Canty Will be gone to Miami, so will Burnett, and Burnett will not start there either and be cut like Davis.
We need 1 or 2 NTs
we need a SS to fill that gaping and by far the biggest most prominent hole on the team. Roy will be Keith Davis Jr, this year, used on special teams and sparingly otherwise.
CB is fine with Newman, Jenkins, Scandrick, Ball we need to draft 1 or 2 late to develope.
ILB, we could go FA or get it in the Draft Barbie may get his chance, and if he does actually do well, its about effing time. The funny thing is why wouldnt he, he is in the last year of his deal, and of course he will play well, get paid and then suck again, na we are talking about Barbie.
On defense
I still think a run stuffing NT would do wonders for this defense. Perhaps even elevate them to that upper tier of defenses in the league. I could see Ratliff moving to DE and producing much like Richard Seymour used to in New England. He could always shift back to the NT position on obvious passing downs.
Then of course there is the issue of safety. Many moons ago the Patriots picked up one Rodney Harrison (for cheap) who at the time was considered washed up and they got 2 high-quality seasons out of him. Is there anyone available out who produce similar results for Dallas? Ideally they would draft someone to groom under this FA as well.
0 = The number of Super Bowls the Eagles have won.
Ravens Safety
We could also go after the young Ravens safety who was injured this year, making his price tag more feasible.
It All Starts Up Front
If da King can at the very least add a solid, proven NT, an effective safety, and a tackling machine MLB — all in the off season — I’d be ecstatic!
"I got a fever. And the only prescription is more cowbell." -- Bruce Dickinson
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Oh, and I forgot... a decent O-lineman in the draft with a high upside!
"I got a fever. And the only prescription is more cowbell." -- Bruce Dickinson
www.brainfriednetwork.com [NEWS/SPORTS/FOOTBALL]
I've really loved reading these posts here, but...
I think our offense does need to change, and not so much the players. I take the Pittsburgh game as an example of offensive philosiphy. At the end of the game, was it so necessary to even throw the ball at all? in re-watching the end of the game, my answer was an utter and absolute “no”. Is it possible (and probable) that Pittsburghs defense was forcing us into throwing the ball to Witten at the end, waiting for it like a baited trap? My answer was an absolute “yes”.
Meanwhile, at least 4 other times in that game, I saw Tashard Choice in the Flats for a screen pass with either nobody even around him, or someone running out there too late to cover him in an obvious mismatch. Two times I counted Romo look over to Tashard (and he was open) and then abruptly look back down field and fire it into double coverage. So this brings up one very big question about offensive playcalling:
“When did it all of a sudden become Dallas Cowboy Philosiphy/Policy to ignore whatever a defense is doing, and not take what a defense is giving you?”
As far as defense is concerned, these are the questions that must be answered- NT and SS and FS, as well as CB. I can only hope Henry can play free safety now, because he may have been good to play the position only up until now (he may be over the hill, but don’t know).
At Strong safety, let’s hope some role player Safety FA becomes available, and that the Cowboys get rid of Roy Williams.
At NT let’s get a good deal for a change and get Gabe Watson if possible from AZ, hope for a FA or two to choose from, and even draft one.
"Amongst the enemy's Lair, there will always be a DallasPalace!"
The Cowboys weren't going to run on the Steelers
They had to pass if they were going to move the ball, no way were the Cowboys going to run on the Steelers.
In Romo we Trust
Wrong Terry...
Seems like Tashard did very well against them, but again, no offensive genious at work here with the Cowboys at playcalling. If the Steelers were going to give that Tashard screen pass to the flats all day, then the Cowboys should have taken that screen pass all day (which, by the way Terry, is pretty much just another run play) and if memory serves correctly, Tashard did gain alot of yards against them with screen passes. And that mentality right there is what fails the Cowboys offense Terry….“We had to pass if they were going to move the ball”. again, Why?
We did not need to pass, that’s a myth. What we needed to do was not throw an interception. How much you wanna make a bet Terry that if we would have just run the ball (and not even gained any yards), and just punted, then our chances of winning the game would have changed 100%.
Sorry to say this Terry, but as Cowboys, we shot ourselves in the foot.
until this offensive philosiphy of pass first is questioned, and if we continue to think this way, we will never truly win the NFC east the way we need too.
"Amongst the enemy's Lair, there will always be a DallasPalace!"
by DallasPalace on Jan 8, 2009 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
Review your history
We were pass first last season and went 13-3—went run first in the playoffs and lost to the Giants.
I believe Norv Turner had a pass first philosophy even with Emmitt Smith.
38 passes, 33 runs in that game.
The problem was that they abandoned the run in the second half. My count may be off, but they threw the ball like 24 times in the second half. They only ran the ball 13 times in the second half, including 8 on their first drive, which was the only one where they scored.
by Baked Potato Soup on Jan 8, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
Forgive me NCCowboy....
but let me clarify what I mean when I say “run first’. In earlier posts of yours, you talked about the need for an offensive line upgrade and the fact that our O-line is good at straight ahead blocking, but not when the defense stunts and run blitzes (I agree). So what’s the problem then? If we don’t make the upgrading our ability to run the ball against ANY defense a priority, then we will never be able to effectively pass and dictate the offense to our opponent. Making the offensive philosiphy "run first” is a mentality that should mean that you draft, have a mindset, and work hard to make sure that you can run the ball against anyone anytime you need too. It also means that you do this so you can effectively pass the ball. It does not mean you go out there and run the ball every down. It DOES mean you make a defense respect your running game.
NFC east football does have some basic rules, and here they are!
“I’m gonna run the ball against you (you’re not gonna stop me!), and then when you try to run the ball against me, you’re gonna face one of the top defenses against the run in the NFL, so good luck”.
NC, we have gotten away from the basics by being “pass to develop the run”. It just doesn’t work as well in my opinion. It is the reason why teams cannot stop the NY Giants. Have we learned anything by watching what a running game can do for an offensive gameplan?
"Amongst the enemy's Lair, there will always be a DallasPalace!"
by DallasPalace on Jan 8, 2009 11:24 AM CST up reply actions
Don't necessarily disagree in principle, but
Put yourself in the offensive coordinator’s shoes the last 4 weeks of the season (when the criticism of Garrett’s playcalling reached its crescendo). You are facing 4 of the top defenses in the league. Where are the team’s strengths? Tashard Choice alone (Barber was a nonfactor even though he suited up) or Romo throwing to Owens, Witten and Company?
I've posted on this very same subject before...
but here it goes again anyway…
Romo, run with the ball. a couple times in a row! ‘wow, I can’t belive I gained that much!" said Romo to himself.
Deon Anderson- it seems to me, NC, that last year we even saw a few screens to Deon, and a couple of them wen’t for big gains.
Slants- Why none were used?
Bunch formations for WR- not used enough
2 tight end formations- we needed Parcells wisdom obviously to take advantage of that kind of offensive formation, because it is a little beyond Garrett. Boy, would I have loved to have seen a Choice run from that formation. Martellus is a great blocker, and so is Witten.
4 WR sets- run the ball from a 4 wide reciever set- that’s crazy!
Tashard Choice- I’ve said it before, and alot of people are going to disagree with me, I don’t care though- Tashard Choice is our best RB. Barber should be used the way he should be used (pounding the ball at the end of the game to preserve the win and eating the clock). Felix should be sprinkled in throughout the game, and put out there as a reciever in the slot in some formations while Tashard is on the field. Felix should be used like this while Barber is on the field. Felix is the only player that resembles Preston Pearson. We should use him the same way as Preston was used.
Screens- if a team is abandoning giving respect to a screen pass play, then you kill them with it, and you keep killing them with it until they respect it. This will always make a defense have to worry about things that will make it easier for recievers.
This is what I saw and thought should be exploited in the Pittsburgh game that we did not do enough of.
these are just a few ideas NC, but by no means are they to replace an offensive gameplan. These kind of plays are just to throw a defense on it’s heels. There are good times to call plays like this, and there are bad times. A good offensive coordinator will know the difference.
"Amongst the enemy's Lair, there will always be a DallasPalace!"
by DallasPalace on Jan 8, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
Slants
I agree with u on the slants, But it seemed like Romo really struggled throwing slants after the injury. He was always throwing it too low, too high or behind.
by Snatchandgrab on Jan 8, 2009 3:33 PM CST up reply actions
Snatch....
You can practice Slants! They just don’t do it I guess- ask Garrett. Probably because he is so aggressive that he wants to throw vertically so much that he can’t really see the value in a slant.
"Amongst the enemy's Lair, there will always be a DallasPalace!"
DallasPlace
Its obvious you don’t watch the Steelers too much…you don’t run on them..you just don’t.
BTW, a screen pass isn’t running.
In Romo we Trust
Terry
I am a mgr and 3 of my salesmen are avid steeler fans. I watch games with them all the time. You may not believe they can be run on, and I agree it is difficult, then how do you explain what Tashard did? They can be run on, you just don’t have faith. And why should you have faith? with Garrett’s playcalling, all you’ll know and believe we should do is not run the ball, just pass. Our offensive line is not being coached correctly, and our running game is not being utililized correctly. The reason I believe the screen should have been used more against the Steelers was because they were giving that to us, and Tashard was exploiting them.
BTW, ask most people that are offensive minded, and they will tell you a screen play is just about like a run play.
"Amongst the enemy's Lair, there will always be a DallasPalace!"
Oh, and Terry....
What would the Steelers do if we ran our Jumbo tight end package against them correctly?
Probably give up 2-5 yards every play minimum when we run. We are the only team in the NFL that can probably run a jumbo package against them and have success because of our tight ends. But none of that matters if we don’t have an OC that can teach that kind of formation effectively to the players.
"Amongst the enemy's Lair, there will always be a DallasPalace!"
The Lions...
are looking to unload a bunch of players at all positions and completely retool. Is Corey Chavous worth a look at Safety?
On Zach, I too read the first report where he said he wanted to leave, then I also read the report where he said it was just emotions talking after a bitter loss. So, I’m unclear on his status.
I think TO still has some good football left in him, but how much? He has value now, but at some point in the NEAR future, he has to decline. Can we get some mid-range draft picks for him from a team like the Ray-duhs who pride themselves on rehabbing players, like marquis names, like to go vertical, need a WR and have screwed up management? Use those extra picks to continue to build the O & D.
I’d like to try to trade Carpenter to the Dolphins for a mid round pick, if they would. Boobie is a Parcells legacy pick, and Bill might go for it. Carp may perform better under Bill and although we lose a 1st rounder for a 3rd, or 4th, we get more upside than what Carp is showing at the present.
"He has a peculiar felicity of expression." John Adams
With Parcells knowing
Do you think he would give a 3rd or 4th, Parcells knows we have brought in FA after FA to play in front of Bobby, He knows he can get him for cheap, and here we go again, how brilliant are the Dolphins stealing Fasano, now Carpenter, keep them please take them away they suck.
May be wishful thinking....
I was just hoping that some of that same misplaced loyalty to Bobby’s dad, that caused Bill to piss away a Cowboy’s 1st round pick may cause him to think he’s worth pissing away a Dolphins 3rd or 4th round pick.
"He has a peculiar felicity of expression." John Adams
Just kidding,
Raf posted some reasons upthread.
1. Can’t cover, after three years.
2. Couldn’t tackle worth beans this year;
3. Had more penalties than any of the other 25 players on this list.
What good reasons are there to keep him?
by Baked Potato Soup on Jan 8, 2009 10:32 AM CST up reply actions
well
1. yes he can, I honestly dont see him getting beat that often. And if he did you wouldn’t see him playing on the nickel. Granted the first half of his first year he had problems in coverage, but I don’t know why people think he still does.
2. Could that because he was playing injured this year before he got put on IR?
3. Again that probably had to do with him playing injured.
Hmmm
1. You don’t see him getting beat that often? Maybe that’s because he doesn’t play that often. The Eagles torched him for two long, long TDs his rookie year and he’s never recovered. He, like Keith Davis, can’t track balls in the air.
2. His tackling was suspect before he got injured. It got worse when he tried to play hurt.
3. No. I charted penalties for every game this year and Watkins was the runaway leader in September. The only reason he didn’t have MORE is because he got injured.
The main reason I’m fairly sure he’s gone is that he’s a stupid player. Here are two examples:
— Eagles, week two. The guy takes THREE special teams penalties, a 15 yarder, a 10 yarder and a 5.
— Washington, week four. He takes two more special teams penalties, including his second facemask of the year, and then with 7.5 minutes left, coming out of a time out subs himself back into a game and Dallas gets flagged for 12 men on the field. A 3rd and 2 stop becomes a first down and Washington burns three minutes of critical clock time late in the game.
The guy’s head is not on the game.
He’s nothing but a backup. He’s played three years and is not a serious candidate to push Roy or Hamlin for their jobs. And when you’re a backup knucklehead who’s averaging a penalty for every five or six snaps you’re on the field, you have no value, especially to this team, which is desperate to improve its discipline.
1. Yes I know he did poorly in the first couple of games his rookie year. Although since then I can’t remember him getting beaten badly. I even recall coaches praising his coverage skills. You just need to let that Eagles game go. It was over two years ago.
2. He was a ST star last year, and he played almost the entire year injured. So I’m at a loss as to what you are referring to.
3. I never said he didn’t have a lot of penalties. His injuries may have had something to with the penalties. He may have been overcompensating. All I know is that when he wasn’t injured he didn’t make all those penalties.
He may be a backup, but he is a good STer and he can play on sub packages, so he has a lot of value to the team. I would be willing to bet more likely than not he’ll be back next year. I think you are being way over critical of him.
Rafael...
Do you think getting Corey Chavous would be a good move for FS? I was not impressed with Hamlins play this year at all. At best he was average by my estimation. Would you feel better with Chavous or Henry at FS?
"Amongst the enemy's Lair, there will always be a DallasPalace!"
Look at one of rafs comments in this post, he gives three reasons.
Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!
I don't think that the defense needs too much help.
I think a quality FS or SS would be nice, with Hamlin manning the other position. A big, bad NT to work into the defensive line rotation would be nice. And a beast at ILB would be awesome. But this unit did finish #8 this year, and was first in sacks, fifth against the pass. I think they would have been higher against the run if Roy Williams had played. If they don’t miss those tackles against the Ravens, I think most people would feel pretty good about how they were playing at the end of the year.
So, really, a few tweaks, and they are probably a top 5 defense. Hopefully ZT stays, Roy stays, and they add a cover safety, a big NT, and a young ILB.
by Baked Potato Soup on Jan 8, 2009 10:35 AM CST reply actions
Depth
Biggest issue is depth at NT, ILB, S.
Anyone else think Ellis may not be a Cowboy next year?
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 8, 2009 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
Not his decision
I think the team may move on
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 8, 2009 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
Darren woodson said that if ellis does leave it would give Demarcus W the opportunity to take over
as a vocal leader. Darren felt that DW deferred out of respect to GE and if Ellis leaves that would open the door for DW. The departure of ellis would also help a little because he had a tendency to talk about his contract to the media, Darren said that is something a team captain should not be doing with the media. So ellis gone could give DW room to grow as a vocal leader.
Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!
I agree about him not acting like a captain.
I don’t think a team captain should be complaining about their contract and their playing time year after year. That’s not a leader in my book.
by Baked Potato Soup on Jan 8, 2009 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
I think we get addition by subtraction..
by having Ellis move on. He’s got to be near the end of his career and his type of leadership is best for some other team. Spencer is a player. If ellis is a FA, then I’d say let him go. If there was a way we could benefit from a trade…same thing. Add by subtracting.
"He has a peculiar felicity of expression." John Adams
I think with a year left on his contract he could be trade bait maybe a way to move backinto the first or up in the second for one of the safeties.
Don't believe everything you think.
Your causes are cute!!!
D is flexible
Rat can move from NT to cover DE, so Jerry can draft either the best availabel NT or DE. Likewise with Henry or Jenkins moving to FS. Don’t forget that we need to replace the left side of the O line. Maybe TO too.
oooh that'd be cool to have Jenkins at FS and Hamlin at strong... but I don't really see it happening
Jenkins isn’t much of a hitter and you always need CBs. Now if Dallas snagged some good CB out of the blue then maybe, this would maxamize talent on the field. I’d rather Jenkins at FS than Henry, because elite talents at that spot can do a lot for you, and probably he won’t be on the field besting Scandrick based on their rookie years. I can see Henry as the 3rd CB, Ball as #4, Scandrick and Newman starting
by AustonianAggie on Jan 8, 2009 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
You Don't see Courtney Brown returning?
isn’t he just now entering his 3rd year? what’s up with him?
I don’t see Greg Ellis as a detraction from the team but I’m all for enabling players like D Ware, Romo and Witten owning this team. As it stands, they used to defer to Parcels and now they seem to defer to the older vets like Ellis and TO.
Also I hope to see Canty back
If he gets knocked out of starting for us I’d like to be because someone beat him out. I think he’s a good player, and a more sure thing than Spears is.
A few hitches in your posting Raf....
First off …..DE-Bowen is a RFA i believe….so depending on what tender is offered, and what teams may be interested…he’s not a lock yet…
Don’t think for a minute Barbie Carpenter is safe here….Very little cap hit if traded or released….He hasn’t sniffed the field in 3 years, and we’re not just looking to keep warm bodies on the bench….I’m willing to proclaim Rodgers and Polk better than him right now….We can sign an aging vet, at below market price, and get rid of this rag doll once and for all…Johnathan Vilma- NO or Mike Peterson-Jacksonville could be considered…Then draft another LB in the second-third rounds…As much as i like Burnett, and his coverage skills, he’s not made out to play all three downs…and Burnett will not stay for reserve type money….He can start on any 4-3 team out there…he’s gone…
Davis was only brought here because of Roy’s injury…He’s not worth it, and a better mid grade vet can be found, If they even bother to look….I don’t think Davis makes the team next season….Too much money for a terrible position player, making tenured vet money…no thanks..
Seeing you are predicating players staying that are signed, then i certainly wouldn’t count C Brown as a possible player being released. Last year was his first full season playing in the Safety position, and he’s a better athlete than anyone in the secondary…young and cheap…He showed me enough to keep him around another season…They will draft a safety in this years draft…
Solutions:
cut:
Roy Williams
Greg Ellis
Barbie Carpenter
That’s over 10 million in cap space right there…..
Keep Henry for one more season to play FS only, while we do are best to draft his replacement for 2010. IF we can upgrade FS through FA (Atogwe)…then we can trade or release Henry……Move Hamlin to SS.
Keep Zack (if interested in staying)…Like Henry, keep him around for one more season, while doing our best to find his replacement in the draft. If we decide to upgrade the ILB through FA (Dansby,Crowder,Scott,etc), we then release Zack, and still use high priority looking for LB depth…both OLB and ILB….
I see Canty signing elsewhere….Ratliff takes his spot at DE, and we find a beefy NT in the draft.
See ya Tank…..
A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.
President - Garrett MUST GO campaign -
Bart Scott...
Would be the best pick up for us to replace Zach Thomas. I don’t know why they thought Thomas was the ideal ILB for the 3-4. He did play better than I expected though, but still not good enough to take the D to the next level. Bart Scott would do that (I think).
"Amongst the enemy's Lair, there will always be a DallasPalace!"
by DallasPalace on Jan 8, 2009 10:19 PM CST up reply actions
I agree, wasn't big on Thomas being brought here last year
didn’t think he was a good fit in the 3-4 and far too old to sign…..never pay or sign for age
Courtney Brown is a man without a position
He might go to camp with the team, but I’m sure they’re not counting on him for anything in ’09.
Mike Peterson is a pure 4-3 guy. Played for the Colts and Jags. Not a good fit for this scheme, except as Burnett’s replacement in the nickel. Ditto for Vilma, whom the Jets discarded.
Courtney Brown should be...
turned back into a CB so he can be a back-up. He was a CB in college, and believe it or not, he is one of the fastest guys n the Cowboys team.
"Amongst the enemy's Lair, there will always be a DallasPalace!"
fast isn't so much what you're looking for in a CB
it’s quickness, change of direction and make up speed/short term burst…
Fast is more long term distance
Well Deke...
Some of us here have followed players careers through college before they became Cowboys, and Courtney Brown was a pretty good CB, although not top round stuff. The Dallas Cowboys are the ones that made him a safety. He may not be a safety though.
"Amongst the enemy's Lair, there will always be a DallasPalace!"
by DallasPalace on Jan 8, 2009 10:16 PM CST up reply actions
The cowboys moved him to safety for a reason
Just because a player was good in college at one position, it doesn’t mean his skill level translates to that same position in the pros. Dallas moved him to safety because in their minds, that’s what his skill level and measureables translates to, in the pros……
What is the point of keeping Carp ??? please....humor me..
A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.
President - Garrett MUST GO campaign -
He is relatively inexpensive
he is a good STer and does perfectly fine in spot duty, and is a good coverage lber
Jenkins at FS?
Why would anyone ever even consider moving Jenkins to FS? He hates contact as much as Pacman loves strip clubs! He’ll be starting at right corner next year anyway. He’s much better than Henry at this point.
Don't take one out of position bad play....
and turn it into a lifetime career just yet. True, he did make a bad play on Ward, but I didn’t see Hamlin making many big “hits” as free safety, so what’s the point? FS is supposed to be an interception machine. Jenkins is a HS all-american free safety converted to CB in college, so he has FS in his Genes. If he bulks up a little bit, maintains his speed, he would be a perfect free safety, and you should go you-tube and see some of the hits he’s laid in his collegiate career. He will get better, and he is very good in the middle of the field.
"Amongst the enemy's Lair, there will always be a DallasPalace!"
don't try to convince these guys......senseless...
A true diehard Cowboys fan since 1975.
President - Garrett MUST GO campaign -
henry to safety
This is a discussion for a later date, but I hear all about moving Anthony Henry to a fulltime safety next season. Now that would have to be a free safety, right? But the Cowboys just paid their starter there a $9 million signing bonus this past summer. Ken Hamlin is yours. Oh, so I hear you move him to strong safety and can Roy Williams. OK, so don’t you want your strong safety to make a tackle in the hole, sort of like on those 77-yard and 82-yard touchdowns runs on Baltimore’s final two offensive plays of the game Hamlin whiffed on? Might want to keep thinking that one through.
Hmm… What do you do? LINK^
"Protect the Romo, Save the Cowboys!!"
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