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In Defense of the Cowboys Roy Williams

Roy Williams, solid contributor or over-hyped bust? We walk the fine line between the two.

More photos » by Donna McWilliam - AP

Roy Williams, solid contributor or over-hyped bust? We walk the fine line between the two.

Expectations can color any opinion on a subject. Take the classic example. Your friend goes to the movies and comes over afterward to say the movie was one of the best he's ever seen. He pushes you to see it - it's that good. Then you go to the movie, and you think it's alright, but you're not sure what the fuss was all about. That's because the expectations had been set so high that the movie stood little chance of meeting them. Without the expectations having been set beforehand, you might have walked out with a different opinion.

It can happen in sports, too. Take the case of Roy Williams. Coming out of Texas, he was a high draft pick (#7 in 2004) and that immediately set expectations, and it's probably valid at that point. It may not be fair, but it's a fact, when you're drafted that high and get that kind of money, then you're expected to produce at a high level. Roy has never really produced at that level. So he gets labeled as an underachiever, not as good as he should be, all of that stuff. Meanwhile, he's put up some solid numbers in the league. But he'll never be able to shake that initial expectation. Then, he gets traded to another team for some high draft picks, and it starts all over again.

Star-divide

This time however, the idea that Roy has to justify the trade is not valid. Roy's just the player, and he's given you a record to look at. He's created a paper-trail in the NFL, so it's not like college where you're projecting his potential in the pros. You know basically what he is by now, so if you decide that trading a first-round draft pick on him is justified, that's on management, not Roy. Roy is not going to be able to change his game just because a general manager decided this was the value he was putting on the player. He knew what he was getting; he had the track record to look at. Roy's job is not to justify the trade, but to play as well as he can to help the team.

All this brought me back to another ex-Cowboy receiver who was in a similar situation. He was a high draft pick who didn't live up to expectations out of the gate. Then he got traded, for two first-round picks to another team, and basically went on to be the same receiver for that team as he was for the first team. That receiver played in the league for 11 years, and was an effective, yet not spectacular, receiver. When he teamed-up with a speed receiver on the other side in Dallas, he had some good years.

That player was Keyshawn Johnson. Known more for his mouth than anything, Johnson put together a very respectable resume as a WR. Love ‘em or hate ‘em, (and watching him be an analyst, the hate is really winning out), there's no denying he could play. But, he always came with that asterisk to his reputation - *never as good as he should be. Well, those expectations are the problem, not the player.

In fact, look at the similarity of their first three years in the league.

Roy - 181 catches, 2,814 yards, 23 TDs

Key - 216 catches, 2,938 yards, 19 TDs

I see two players on similar trajectories. (Granted, last year Roy's numbers were a total bust with the in-season trade and the foot injury). They are also similar in other ways. Both were physically in the "big" category for receivers. Both are okay with catching the ball in traffic and going over the middle. Both were good blockers in the running game. For fun, take a look at the long runs Dallas has had recently, and on a good portion you'll see #11 downfield blocking a defensive back out of the way. That's a valuable skill that often gets overlooked in wide receivers.

They were different in one way. Roy is more of a vertical threat than Keyshawn was, as evidenced by their YPC stats in their first three years (Roy was around 15.5 and Key around 13.5). Roy is also more dangerous after the catch.

So what's the point? Let me lay out clearly what I'm saying.

  1. The idea that Roy Williams needs to justify the trade is inverted logic. Dallas knew what he was, or they should have known, just by looking at his track record. He's a good receiver, he can help a team, but he's not a dominant receiver that can take over an offense. He's just not that player. Was getting a player of Roy's caliber at #20 in the 2009 draft acceptable (basically the end result of the trade)? We don't know yet, but that's on the Dallas brass, not Roy. All he can do is live up to his abilities, not the expectations.
  2. So far, Roy hasn't lived up to his previous track record. As mentioned before, last year was a wash-out and so far this year, he's got some work to do. So there's a fine line to walk when evaluating Roy Williams. He needs to pick up the pace a bit to get back to his previous level, but he doesn't have to pick up the pace enough to satisfy the expectations, because they were wrong in the beginning, and it's unlikely he will ever satisfy them.
  3. If the Cowboys decide to put Miles Austin in the starting lineup opposite Roy, we could see an uptick in Roy's play. If Austin can consistently represent a deep threat, then Roy will have his Terry Glenn, like Keyshawn did in Dallas.  

Roy Williams is not living up to the hype, but then everybody should have known that going in, so let's quit punishing Roy for something he didn't create. Unreal expectations. If we want to critique Roy, let's say his work so far in Dallas hasn't lived up to his past work. We want to see that Roy again, the guy who produced consistent, not spectacular, numbers in Detroit.

We don't need a justification of the trade. All we need is solid contribution that helps the team win. Here's hoping we see that after the bye week.

5 recs  |  Comment 125 comments |

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Jerry overpaid for RW,way overpaid

He was in my view worth a 2nd. That might have been too much.

by DIRE WOLF on Oct 15, 2009 12:56 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

Greetings from the Humungus, the Ruler of the Wasteland, the Ayatollah of Rock and Roll-A. I laugh at your puny plans.

by Lord Humungus on Oct 15, 2009 12:58 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

I would have given

those picks just to get rid of TO

Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK

by HudBaby on Oct 15, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

look at what the Jets gave up for Braylon Edwards

who contributed in his first game.

I would start Crayton and Austin.

by I_miss_Switzer on Oct 15, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he

contributed cause the Jets don’t have the talent on offense that Dallas has. When Roy came over last year, he didn’t become the best offensive weapon we had, that title belonged to Witten (and maybe Barber, too.) He instantly became the best talent on the Jets offense.

Although I’d much rather have Braylon than Roy, I think you’re comparing apples and oranges.

by what_the_crap on Oct 15, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought

they did give up too much, yes. I wasn’t arguing that part.

by what_the_crap on Oct 15, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

last year

he was the 3rd WR (behind Owens and Witten.) He was brought in for this year and on, not last year. Last year was a wash. So far, he’s done nothing really, but don’t throw in the towel and try and bench him already.

by what_the_crap on Oct 15, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

when do you bench an unproductive player

I would think that 14 games of underachievment is an acceptable point.

His woeful non-contribution last year underscores the fact that Jerry should have sought someone in FA, not played Santa to the Ford family.

by I_miss_Switzer on Oct 15, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How about Roy Williams

and save three draft picks?

by I_miss_Switzer on Oct 15, 2009 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

how do you

know the Cowboys would get him?

and with other teams in the mix, if the contract is bigger?

by what_the_crap on Oct 15, 2009 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

don't overpay

we overpaid for him twice

If they don’t get him, find someone else, but Roy Williams is not a player you break the bank or sell the farm for – or any other metaphor.

by I_miss_Switzer on Oct 15, 2009 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i disagree

but seems like the trendy thing to do is worship draft picks like they are sure things, so go figure

by Becho on Oct 15, 2009 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You've seen him with his shirt off, have you?

I can see for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles...
http://twitter.com/BloggingTheBoys

by Aaron Novinger on Oct 15, 2009 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

huh?

Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey

by Seanrude on Oct 15, 2009 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"his body of work"...just my lame attempt at a joke.

During training camp, he had this odd habit of doing his post-practice interviews with his shirt off.

I can see for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles...
http://twitter.com/BloggingTheBoys

by Aaron Novinger on Oct 15, 2009 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's a better WR than RW.

Jets stole Edwards and Jerry gives three times what RW is worth. Nothing new around here. Thats one reason we haven’t won anything in 12 years, bad GM.

by DIRE WOLF on Oct 15, 2009 1:09 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

~Texas Massacre '09~

by TheHeat on Oct 15, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1,000,000,000,000,000,000 sqaured

Utterly completely absolutely terrible GM.

by Iowacowboy on Oct 15, 2009 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure who I blame..

Jerry the GM or Jerry the Owner.

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
Twitter Account

by Wmillion on Oct 15, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

one good game in one

well RW has about one or two in 14 I believe.

by I_miss_Switzer on Oct 15, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You convinced me...Miles is going to have 200 yards receiving for the rest of the season.

You have a beef with Williams…I get it…but I don’t…I’ll reserve my judgment till the end of the season…

by CaliFanInTx on Oct 15, 2009 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow

I convinced you about Miles when I was talking about Edwards. Don’t be so sure that you get it.

Let’s keep reserving judgement on Williams. He has only been here one year, and is a veteran, but deserves so much more time.

He got one TD last year. Edwards got one in one game with the Jets after about three practices.

Care to bet $500 on Miles Austin having 200 yards the rest of the season, or is that hyperbole?

by I_miss_Switzer on Oct 15, 2009 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My response was in regards to your lack of confidence in RW.

Hey, you could be right and RW turns out to be a scrub. I approach things methodically and patiently, the homework (by the Cowboys scouting dept) is already done…we’ll know by the end of the season whether this scouting department s worth their salary. I’m giving them some benefit of the doubt due to some good work in the last few drafts.

I like Miles and think he’s going to be good, I just want to see him make plays consistently. Edwards had a good game…no doubt…but I’ve actually seen this guy play and he doesn’t have great hands. I want to see him consistently do what he did for the rest of the season before I conclude he is better pickup than RW.

by CaliFanInTx on Oct 16, 2009 1:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hear what you are saying

but we have had RW for a year and he has underwhelmed.

Edwards isn’t great, but he came in in the first game and contributed. Roy seemed to get 10 games on scholarship last year.

I’m not sure that Roy was scouted so much as chased by the man in charge.

by I_miss_Switzer on Oct 16, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Edwards had a great game, but who's ahead of him?

He’s much better than what they already had, so you get more looks. The Cowboys had TO, Witten, Crayton, our RB’s. RW was likely the 3rd or 4th red last year. RW is the number one guy this year…at the end of the year, we will know…the point I’m trying to make is that your comparison is not completely fair…it’s not apples to apples.

by CaliFanInTx on Oct 16, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you can switch it around

when teams have to worry about TO and Witten, and you are on the field, you should be able to make hay.

by I_miss_Switzer on Oct 16, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Call Edwards

Featherstone from “Necessary Roughness”

Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK

by HudBaby on Oct 15, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

but isn't that precisely Grizz's point

that it’s not on RW, but on management. So, focus your anger, frustration, etc., on Jerry and crew.

by rabblerousr on Oct 15, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree to an extent, but as soon as Roy signed the deal

he basically said he would live up to those expectations.

"Help, it's hot and dark in here and someone is laughing." Taco Bell

by GunsUp on Oct 15, 2009 1:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

oh really?

How on earth is that the case? Roy Williams’ deal involves money. Not draft picks.

by Joey2zs on Oct 15, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Uhhhh, yes it does. When you go to work does your employer pay you to

sit on a stationary bike? No, they expect you to earn what they pay you. As a fan of a publicly traded commodity like football I can question whether management is getting a good deal.

"Help, it's hot and dark in here and someone is laughing." Taco Bell

by GunsUp on Oct 16, 2009 6:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still have faith in Roy's ability...

The guys still has a great set of hands, and given the opportunities, can be a good receiver.

Thus far, he’s still going through the “developmental” stages in this offense. I truly believe that it’s tough for a receiver to come in mid-season and be a serious threat. With Romo’s struggles early this year, it’s easy (In my mind) to understand why the numbers haven’t quite been there for him.

And for those with the “Look at Braylon” defense… I think it furthers many of our beliefs that this coaching staff is no good. Braylon scored on scheme, and caught balls on plays set up my misdirection. Plus, it’s only been one game.

I don’t expect Roy to ever be a 1,500 yard, 20 touchdown monster…. But I tuly believe at some point he will prove his worth. It may not be this year, but it will come soon.

by tkosmith on Oct 15, 2009 1:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The Price Is The Problem...

Trading for RW was fine. I can understand the logic of having him paired up with TO (at the time). The problem was what they gave up to get him. Jerry didn’t learn from the Galloway trade. If I was a gm and trading for a WR I would use the Moss to NE deal as a starting off point for negotiations.

by Este on Oct 15, 2009 1:57 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes, its not the player its the cost..

its like paying for a Benz and getting a Hyundia

by DIRE WOLF on Oct 15, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

so powerfully incorrect

stick to what you know

"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)

by ab03 on Oct 16, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Halprin is spot on..

  The expectations for Roy to be a playmaker and a deep threat really was misguided as he hasn’t been the speed guy since Texas.

But, he should be able to produce at least as well as he did in Detroit. That’s where I see him as underacheiving. He has great hands and he’s physical enough to run good posts and be a real threat near the goal line and that just hasn’t materialized.

Hopefully this will happen soon but only time will tell..perhaps with a good speed guy (mayyyyyybe Miles) his production will increase.

As far as edwards goes…Miami’s secondary is not good and there wasn’t any film on what the Jets were going to try to do with him. If he can continue that production I’ll eat crow, but for his career he hasn’t been an elite receiver and I have a hard time annointing him because of one stellar day.

Wade Phillips has never won a playoff game as a head coach..he has lost 4 home playoff games.
His longest tenure as head coach was 3 years.
Only once did his record as a HC improve from one year to the next (by 1 game)

Wade Phillips for DC

by SDTrueblue on Oct 15, 2009 2:11 PM CDT via mobile reply actions   0 recs

I would take Edwards over RW...

if for no other reason than price defference. I wouldn’t give for Edwards what we gave for RW,but I would give what the Jets gave for him. They got a deal, we got skinned.

by DIRE WOLF on Oct 15, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Edwards is known for his brick hands, so I wouldn want him, but

the Jets got a steal, as NE with Moss and for some reason JJ continues to overpay for players, which worries me a bit about our cap health. Lets just look at some of the players:
RW-big contract
Romo -big contract
Felix-first round money
MBIII-big contract
OL the whole group has big contracts
on defence
Ware-dont even want to think about it
Spencer-first round money
Carpenter-first round money
Spears-first round money
Jenkins-first round money
Newman-fat contract extension
K.Hamlin-boat load….
Nevertheless, its all fine if we are trashing the competition, but in reality the whole team is underperforming, so at some point this will come back to bite us. We’ll have ton of dead money and mediocre players.

by dcfanz on Oct 15, 2009 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cap Health

Non-issue with the CBA expiring…

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Oct 15, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dont worry too much about cap health

If theres one thing good about JJ, the man can manage money.

by fretman on Oct 15, 2009 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

2009 NFL Draft selection #22, ....

Percy Harvin. He is a different type of receiver than RW is, but I certainly would like to have Harvin instead of RW. Jerry’s impatience got the best of him again.

by eightball on Oct 15, 2009 2:57 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

And Besides Harvin

We could have moved up with all the picks and snagged a center that could anchor our line for the next decade plus, and ended the Gurode experiment at Center, where he is unable to perform the most basic function of snapping the G D****ed Ball.

by Iowacowboy on Oct 15, 2009 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ouch

That’s much worse to think about.

by StillHateTheGiants on Oct 15, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gurode Experiment?

what the H are you talking about? How many Pro Bowls has he gone to?

by Joey2zs on Oct 15, 2009 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

then that's a

pretty successful experiment.

by Joey2zs on Oct 15, 2009 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I Do Not Understand

The relentless criticism of Gurode. He did have a problem with high shotgun snaps in years past, but he’s a very good center. There’s this mythology he makes poor line calls, but no one who is in a position to comment knowledgeably has ever implied his calls are bad. Ever.

There’s plenty of concerns on this team, but the idea is to hang on to the good players, not throw them away.

by kindablue on Oct 16, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

I like Gurorde. Most of Romo’s pressure comes from the outside..

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
Twitter Account

by Wmillion on Oct 16, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good points

Good article, very well thought out. I think Roy is what he is. Austin can really help him, as you mentioned. I like Crayton, but he’s a slot guy. If Austin can come out and prove to be a solid deep threat / big play guy, it will only help RW.

by Big50 on Oct 15, 2009 3:04 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Might have been the other blog before the merger

I remember people pounding the table that Dallas needed to trade for Roy. I feel bad for the guy, I think Grizz has it about right. Detroit drafted him too high and Jerry way over paid for him. That’s on them, not him. He seems like he’ll be a solid player, more like a #2 to me.

by StillHateTheGiants on Oct 15, 2009 3:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

LOL I'd take the money too.

If you’re stupid enought to pay me I’m smart enought to take it.

by DIRE WOLF on Oct 15, 2009 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

RW

 I think he could be a consistent 70-80 catch and 1,000 to 1,200 yards with about 7-10 TD a year. But for that to happen we need Austin on the field more.

by B-Real on Oct 15, 2009 3:46 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't suggest you hold your breath

Those are big numbers for him to put up consistently. 50 or so catches, 600 yds and 8 TD’s sounds more realistic on a consistent basis.

by StillHateTheGiants on Oct 15, 2009 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Only a doofus would say Edwards is better. In 3 of his four years he led the NFL in drops. Last year it was not even close. Only one of his four years did he not have a lot of drops- and even then he still had more then roy despite being thrown to less often.

by burmafrd1944 on Oct 15, 2009 3:50 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

the roy williams trade was bad, obviously, but what's done is done

To me, this is on jason garrett. jerry, IMHO relies heavily on his opinion for getting offensive players (remember the jerry asking him whether to draft felix or mendenhall). It was a bad trade to begin with because jerry was trading for a #2 receiver, not a #1. At the time, TO was still here and didn’t appear to be going anywhere. It was a desperate attempt to get into the playoffs last year and get TO going. It was a disaster. TO still wasn’t productive, and Roy has been hurt a lot.
The Keyshawn comparison seems right……and who would give three draft picks for Key and a late pick at the same time in his career…………nobody.

by just4fun on Oct 15, 2009 3:59 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

And Price Is Not Money

It is the draft picks . . . we should have run the risk we could have gotten him for free. Percy and Roy

by Iowacowboy on Oct 15, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Braylon Edwards comparison isn't really fair

The price is different because the Browns wanted to dump him. He just punched some friend of the King of Cleveland. There was no way he stayed there. The Browns got what they could to dump him. Besides, he’s not worth anymore than that anyway. He drops more passes than T.O. He can put up good numbers if he’s handled with kid gloves, but we don’t need that kind of headache. Remember? We all agreed the team went in the right direction when they got rid of the troublesome players.

Roy is a great addition to this team for many reasons. He has a great attitude, he is a skilled WR, he is a good teammate, and he can put up some decent numbers. Yes, we overpaid. We’ve overpaid for many players in the last few years. I’m having trouble thinking of any of the players we’ve overpaid that gave us that value on the field. Strangely enough, we’re most likely about to hand out the biggest contract yet. But DeMarcus is another high character guy who will give this team everything he has on the field.

Jerry made two big mistakes in a row. One, resigning T.O., and two giving RW all that money like a week later. A guy like Jerry that has made a career out of making money has to have learned something from this. He’s probably having all these events at the new stadium to stay afloat. That’s when you REALLY learn. When you’re fighting for your financial survival. Bottom line, if these players don’t start producing on the field, we’ll see the changes everyone has been screaming for over the last two seasons.

I’ll admit I was never a big believer in Austin. He amazed me last week. Now the coaching staff is saying he’ll have an expanded role. I’ve heard that before, and for whatever reason, it doesn’t happen. We need those three tailbacks healthy, and we need all three of them in top form all the time. That will cure a lot. It will help the receivers more than anyone. Give me a healthy Felix, Barber, and Choice, and I’ll show you some open receivers.

Last night I lay in bed looking up at the stars in the sky and I thought to myself, "where the heck is the ceiling?"

by White Wolf on Oct 15, 2009 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and,

If the cowboys didn’t overpay, Roy Williams wouldn’t be here. The #1 WR would be Patrick “Yes, I’m still in the NFL” Crayton, followed up by a bunch of nobodies who are just warm bodies in cleats.
Let’s not forget the week before, Miles ran the wrong route causing Romo to throw an INT to Champ. In retrospect, if that play works out differently, the Cowboys likely win. He also dropped 2 TDs last week.
RW doesn’t even have the body of work in place yet to judge him. How long has he been healthy? Injured? How many plays have been called for him? How many times has he not been able to get free? Or has gotten free but Romo didn’t find him? Or romo didn’t have time to? How many drops has he had? Blown assignments? How prepared is he? Or unprepared? None of us know the answers to these questions, so anyone who is passing judgment at this stage is the same person for whom football is his soap opera.

by Joey2zs on Oct 15, 2009 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He has had a year

If the Cowboys didn’t overpay, how were they precluded from acquiring someone else as there #1?

by I_miss_Switzer on Oct 15, 2009 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that I expected to see more from RW last year, but TO still here he wasn't going to get the looks Edwards will be getting.

And yes, I think a 1st and 3rd was too steep, then and now, but with the extra draft picks we had built up, we fortunately didn’t mortgage our future drafts. RW is on the team and at the very least, I think he can be an above average receiver. We have a decent receiving core (WR/TE)…one that I think is above average.

by CaliFanInTx on Oct 16, 2009 1:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's what he cost

It cost Jerry 3 pics for a WR who can walk in and start and be trusted not to F up for 2 seasons until he learned the game.
It’s expensive. Who would you have signed? Houshmanzedah? Who? There were no big name free agents.

by Joey2zs on Oct 16, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

so the bar for Williams

is to not F up for 2 years wehile he learns the game? Now I am thrilled with his performance.

We don’t need a big name, we need a decent player. RW appears to be a big name and nothing else. Chasing “big names” is the root of the problem.

by I_miss_Switzer on Oct 16, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Resigning Flo another mistake

This mistake was forced error due to the past mistakes where we missed on about ten offensive linemen in a row. Dalls is where it is because it cannot draft and acquire talent sufficient to reach the championship level.

by Iowacowboy on Oct 16, 2009 7:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he's clearl not..but

The one thing the Cowboys NEED to do is have better drafts and bring quality players to Dallas. The draft is where it starts. JJ was GREAT at recognizing talent and we won 3 super bowls. In time Miles Austin may prove to be that #1 we’re all looking for. Until then, have a few good drafts and better trades and we’ll be a better team.

by Cowboy88 on Oct 15, 2009 4:20 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

between Roy and Miles

If they can feed off of each other, it will work out well for this offense. Especially Witten.

Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK

by HudBaby on Oct 15, 2009 5:02 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I still don't see the logic

in trading high draft picks right after your franchise QB gets hurt. Ridiculous.

by DoomsdayD75 on Oct 15, 2009 5:17 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Roy

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?season=2000&round=round1

I went back and looked at the WR’s taken in the 1st round since 2000. I suggest everyone takes a quick peek. One thing is for sure, drafting WR’s in the 1st Round is inexact science. Do i think we overpaid for Roy, a little, but it is a crap shoot.

Look at 06 draft- Would you trade Roy W for Bobby C, Jason Hatcher, and Montavious Stanley ??

I’ll Roy the 1000+ yds 8+ TD’s and his ability to block.

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
Twitter Account

by Wmillion on Oct 15, 2009 5:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

heck yes and this is exactly what i think everyone should understand

getting one good player (and i think roy is a good, not great, player) from those picks is a good deal

by Becho on Oct 15, 2009 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not so my friend

It is proof the draft is crap shoot.. Every team misses. A lot of teams and fans look up to New England, but they miss too.. LMaroney, CJackson, to name a couple of top draft picks that haven’t worked out for them.

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
Twitter Account

by Wmillion on Oct 15, 2009 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The title of this post made me think

that Dave is an opposing CB! ‘Cause they’ve shown (this season) that he’s pretty easy to defend. Ha.

All jokes aside, I like Roy and think he’s a good player. And while I don’t often jump on the “blame the coaches” bandwagon (I’ll do it, just not too frequently), I think we’re using Roy incorrectly. With his big body, I think Roy should be running slants, intermediate/deep ins, fades, and the occasional go route. Instead, he runs digs, comebacks, and out patterns. I also think that our offense is a bit too reliant on the individual skills of our pass catchers and our schemes are built around the WR/TE getting open on his own rather than the scheme focing coverage to shift & create the opening or favorable matchup. I’m not saying that Garrett never has a good scheme – Raf did an excellent breakdown after the Tampa game (and others in TO’s BIG season two years ago) showing how Garrett’s scheming got our WR’s wide open. Well, needless to say, I think we need more of that rather than having Roy running 10 and 15 yard outs where we’re relying on his route running to create the separation. I mean, Roy had his most successful season under Martz where the combination of scheme and him playing in the middle of field (running slants and deep ins) led him to have that monster year. Let’s have more of that, please.

by desus32 on Oct 15, 2009 5:31 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you on this. He's not being used in the right patterns.

Give him those slants, just don’t hang him out to dry. he will go for the ball.

"We'll see." --Bill Parcells

by Uncle Angus on Oct 15, 2009 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree, but...

…maybe JG doesn’t have Roy running slants because Romo doesn’t have the accuracy to throw the slant well. A yard behind the receiver on a slant is good for 6 the other way. For that matter, a yard above his head could be the same result. I don’t know the stats, but it doesn’t seem to me that Roy is being targeted that often. With a guy Roy’s size, Romo should be able to squeeze a few in there and let Roy battle for it even if he’s not “open”. I haven’t seem them work the middle with Witten much this year either.

by Silverblue on Oct 15, 2009 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hear you on Romo

The slant is probably the throw he’s least comfortable with. I mean the slant is a staple throw in many offenses, but we rarely throw it and that has to be because of our QB.

by desus32 on Oct 15, 2009 10:56 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Also, I've made this point before

but we need a different style of WR to compliment our other WR’s. I know that Miles brings a speed element to our WR corps that Roy and Crayton don’t have. However, I’d still like to see a shifty, route runner like NYG’s Steve Smith or Santa Moss or Welker or our recent guy Terry Glenn to bring another dimension to our wideouts. This is why I’ve been high on Ogletree – he’s built in this mold and is real contrast to our current group of WR’s.

by desus32 on Oct 15, 2009 5:37 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

By the way....anybody around these parts remember a certain WR some years ago that got hurt?

He and JJ went round and round about his injury and he ultimately had an appendectomy. Kissed his Cowboys career goodbye…….

only to go to Jacksonville and become an ALL PRO WR and lead the Jaguars in receptions, etc….

That WR was Jimmy Smith.

The Cowboys thought he was a bust.

It just goes to show you that YOU NEVER KNOW what’s going to happen. Whether this guy or that guy is going to be a great one or just avg BEFORE you draft him.

by Cowboy88 on Oct 15, 2009 6:50 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

in jj's defense

he was cut by the eagles too before figuring it out at jacksonville

by just4fun on Oct 15, 2009 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

RW vs. BE

Another difference between Roy and Braylon … Braylon gave up trying in CLE. There’s something to be said for Roy going out there in Detroit, putting up the numbers he did (albeit not braylon numbers) and not being the world’s whiniest receiver. Can you imagine TO in DET or CLE the last 5 years?

by berkokid on Oct 15, 2009 8:31 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Good article Dave.. I've though the same thing. Roy is a lot like Key

They are built the same way and they are both possesion receivers. Let’s hope Austin stays healthy and can burn some good defenses too.

by torchindefenses on Oct 15, 2009 8:57 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The trade for RW would have been a lot better idea if we only gave up a 3rd rounder.

Dave, you make a good point about what we expect from RW. RW did not make the trade, but he will be held accountable for Jerry’s decision. In the period of seven months Jerry the GM made two huge mistakes that will have a negative impact on this team for years. Giving up way too much for RW was the first and not moving up to draft Unger was the other. Jerry needs to re-think his draft philosophy and go after smarter players that can recognize what the coaches want and reproduce it on the field. Smarter players can also recognize what the other player is doing and make adjustment. I really like Jordan Shipley from UT. He gets open, he has good hands and he is a good punt returner. The Cowboys really need a center. Hopefully they can find a great leader to play center in the draft next year. I really like Jerry as the owner. He is the best in professional sports. Every GM makes mistakes. The decisions are too complex to get them all right.

by cowboy1966 on Oct 15, 2009 9:41 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The problem is not that Roy will or will not be held accountable for Jerry's decision

The problem is that Jerry will never be held accountable for his bad decisions

Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey

by Seanrude on Oct 15, 2009 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

give you that..

No one can hold you accountable when you are your own boss.

I hope Steve starts to take over more duties, we some checks and balances.

Talent isn’t a problem on this team it is discipline..

Jerry needs to hire a coach and allow him to make crucial decisions on and off the field. It really isn’t fair to Wade, if he isn’t allowed to operate the way he sees fit. I am not a big Wade fan, but I feel for Wade. Tough spot.

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
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by Wmillion on Oct 15, 2009 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree . . . but

We should have run the risk that RW would have been available in free agency. It is unlikely that Detroit wanted to sign him and RW did not want to sign with them. Run the risk; if we win, then RW comes to Dallas free. Agree on UNGER. Huge mistake not making this move. As for Jerry the owner, agree he is the best EXCEPT Jerry is not a good GM. Proof is the Cowboy history since the Hershecl Heist. Since Aikman, Cowboys have totally sucked and the fault is Jerry and his control over football matters. Until this changes, this franchise will toil in the less than championship level.

by Iowacowboy on Oct 16, 2009 7:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it's notable to remember that Jerry was hesitant to pay a first-round salary due to the uncertainties of the CBA.

Sure, it was a risk to pull the RW trade, but it’s also a risk to pay out a big$$$ contract to a player coming out of college.

I can see for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles...
http://twitter.com/BloggingTheBoys

by Aaron Novinger on Oct 16, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What is the read on Stephen Jones?

Will he draft better and be a better GM? If he truely was a force in getting rid of TO that is a good thing. This team does not have the same “individual” problems they had when TO was here. More stephen Jones could be a good thing.

by cowboy1966 on Oct 16, 2009 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was looking for a short term positive.

If Stephen has more influence over his GM dad it may really tone down the show biz side of JJ. No way JJ hires a GM. You have to admit all GM’s miss on talent in the draft and free agency. IMO JJ is a little above average as a GM. But I want a stud GM, QB, head coach, WR, center, etc. You will never be great in every area. It is too hard. But just like a play here or there by Romo and this team is 5-0….A better decision here and there by JJ and this team is 5-0.

by cowboy1966 on Oct 16, 2009 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

JJ knows he can not nail every big decision.

IMO Jerry should consider the wonderlic shores more and be open to a few smaller but quicker receivers. Terry Glenn made some huge plays for his teams.

by cowboy1966 on Oct 15, 2009 10:34 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

He is also getting paid 9 mil a year

Unfortunately, he has to justify that kind of money if he still wants to be on the team next year. Or else take a huge pay cut.

by quincyyyyy on Oct 16, 2009 12:01 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Very good post Dave…and the sporting side of a fan’s view is way underrated. This targets a view of the player, and gives us some of the heart. Thanks for bringing a fan’s eye to our great sport and team. I like me some Roy Williams, because he elevates a good offense in all of his own skills. He is a team player, and end results, and drives kept alive are the key, as they establish dominance of field position and time of possession. A reason why Parcells brought Keyshawn to Dallas, with the high price tag as well….and those similarities of numbers aren’t lost on this fan as well.

Again, thanks, Dave…

There is no right way to do the wrong thing. GO COWBOYS!!

by CCBoy on Oct 16, 2009 1:49 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Different point

But do you wish you had drafted Randy Moss all those years ago?

by G Fan in England on Oct 16, 2009 4:56 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

in hindsight

 I don’t think it would have made a difference. The team was on a steady but inevitable downslide with tons of money in dead space, and aging players. I think he would have gotten really bored once Aikman went down with his final concussion behind that increasingly porous O-Line.

As a fan, sure, I would have liked to see if he could have lit it up in big D like he did in Minnesota.

by mdlusk on Oct 16, 2009 5:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You got good service

out of your first two picks in 1998 – Greg Ellis and F Adams.

by G Fan in England on Oct 16, 2009 5:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They only were adequate

and frankly underperforming until Bill Parcells started turning hings around here. I can’t imagine the hissy fit Randy Moss would have thrown after 3 straight 5-11 seasons here.

by mdlusk on Oct 17, 2009 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Point well spoken!

I actually agree with D. Halprin piece on Roy W., I think people fail to see the good blocks that he does when he is supporting a run or a catch and run. I feel his game can continue to get better when Romo can adjust his throws accordingly, because Romo throws, and we all can agree, have been off! I hope he has thick skin and not allow these football perfectionists wreak havoc on his skill level and just play football!

RL Dixon Jr

by cboyfolife on Oct 16, 2009 8:58 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

A First and a Third for a receiver who blocks well?

Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey

by Seanrude on Oct 16, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly

without Roy there, they’d put all their focus on Witten.

by what_the_crap on Oct 16, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

good objective article

RW is a nice addition to the ‘boys. He has that Odessa-Permian team-first attitude and he’s not the drama queen TO is.
Hopefully MA can become consistent and provide the speed opposite RW; if not we must spend a first day draft pick in ’10 for a WR who can fly.

"What we've got here is failure to communicate"

by angie'sdad on Oct 16, 2009 4:59 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Disagree

I disagree with a lot of this, Dave. Roy Williams was given $9 million a year, which is in the top 10 for receivers. That’s the Cowboys giving him elite money. But is it Roy’s fault he’s not performing to at least mirror his stats and productivity that he had in Detroit? He had some of that success with Jon Kitna passing. Throw him in there then for a game and rely on the defense more.

But Roy is very close to becoming among the biggest trade flops the Cowboys have ever made. Real close.

I haven’t lost hope, but it’s not looking good. He did say to give him one full camp with Romo and then ask him these types of questions. We need to start asking them now. Is he a flop or not?

thelandryhat.com New Coach, Same America's Team

by thelandryhat on Oct 17, 2009 4:15 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

like a fish out of water

Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey

by Seanrude on Oct 17, 2009 5:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

its sure looking that way and I like RW....

I think he needs a true speed threat on the other side to make him look better. Right now we don’t have that unless that is Austin. If not, we must draft that player next season.

by Boyzfan94 on Oct 17, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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