Don't blame Romo!
by nebur on Oct 21, 2009 11:21 AM CDT
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Don't blame Romo for the Cowboys woes, yes he is part of the problem but it goes deeper than that.......THE COACH!!!! Wade Phillips is not the type that our Cowboys need right now. I think what we need is a Jon Gruden type. One who can AND will put a fire under the players.
The players have way too many penalties and memory lapses during games that make it way too frustrating to bear...COACHING...... Cowboys receivers(not all), run the laziest routes than other receivers in the league...COACHING..... I could probably find other faults but it is not for me to say, I am just a loyal fan. But that is what makes our country the greastest on earth.....FREEDOM OF SPEECH!! Even it is only a sports venue.
Enjoy the rest of the season TRUE BLUES, we will have an exciting conclusion to our season. I see the BOYS coming through for their fans.
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We've all debated these issues over and over - it's like beating a dead horse
yet how interesting that after you blast our coaching, you finalize your remarks by suggesting that the Cowboys will have an exciting conclusion to the season and come through for the fans. If so, maybe the coaching isn’t as bad as you propose.
Winning takes talent, to repeat takes character. - John Wooden
or that players actually win and lose games, not coaches
novel concept for this bunch I must say.
In Romo we Trust
The players can't make plays...
…if they have coaches that keep them back to block when they should be out in a pass pattern at a crucial time in the game. Like Witten in the Denver game. Just sayin.
The 2009 Dallas Cowboys: Talk to me in December.
The NFC East has won 11 Super Bowls; oddly none of those have come courtesy of the Eagles.
If Witten was blocking a blitzer - that was making a play
maybe not the one we wanted, but blocking is still making a play
Winning takes talent, to repeat takes character. - John Wooden
I agree I would have liked to see Witten
out running a pattern in that scenario, but the bottom line is the players didn’t execute, if they did, we would have scored. Thats not the coaches fault.
In Romo we Trust
I was watching the highlight DVD of the Super Bowl win against Pittsburgh
They interviewed Moose at the end, and he said something along the lines that the Super Bowl win against the Steelers was the best because the players had to overcome the awful coaching to get it done
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
...which is scary
because Dallas was significantly more talented than Pittsburgh.
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
no question Switzer was a horrible HC
actually worse than Wade IMO. Just proves that players win or lose the games.
In Romo we Trust
Coaching only goes so far
All we heard all through camp was the emphasis placed on penalties, players IMMEDIATELY removed from the lineup when having a false start, etc. YADA YADA YADA. Players have to be responsible, the coaches can’t MAKE them pay attention to the snap count, etc. Coaches put them in a position, players play!
Bingo! we have a winner
I have yet to see a coach make a block or tackle, throw a pass, run a route, catch or run ball, yet they get blamed for everything.
Coaches have to get the players ready to play and formalize a good game plan and make necessary adjustments at halftime, but the players have to execute that game plan and those adjustments.
Owners fire coaches because it’s much more practical than cutting most of the team.
In Romo we Trust
seriously?
If you were right we wouldn’t have a 30 man coaching staff. At the NFL level everyone is 250-350 lbs., runs a 4.3-4.8 40, and benches 400lb’s. Where that player runs his route, which gap he blocks, where his reads are to throw the ball, what hole he runs through, and when they do it is all on the coaching staff.
For these reasons I have a became a big supporter of Romo. I went to the Denver game and saw a great example to prove my point. Romo outplayed Orton (if anyone is going to argue against this please have specific plays), coaching wasn’t even comparable.
"Another thing that freaks me out is time. Time is like a book. You have a beginning, a middle and an end. It's just a cycle." -Tyson
In this era of free agency and salary caps…
The difference in talent levels from one team to the next is minimal and thus the team w/ the better coaching staff is going to win 9 times out of 10.
The 2009 Dallas Cowboys: Talk to me in December.
The NFC East has won 11 Super Bowls; oddly none of those have come courtesy of the Eagles.
thats all true, however
the players still have to run the route, block, know the reads, run through the correct hole that the coaches coach them to do. If the players fail to do it, how is that the coaches fault?
It’s like if you screwed up at work, made a mistake doing something, but then blamed your boss or the person who trained you. The fault would lie with you, nobody else.
In Romo we Trust
The fault would lie with my boss...
…if he continued to use me even after I had proven I wasn’t worthy of the job.
A player can only do what he is asked to do and if what he’s being asked to do is failed idea to began with… well… you get the idea. The back to back fade patterns at the 1 yard line against Carolina are a great example of this. Sure it was still up to the players to execute this despite the flawed logic of doing it in the first place. But a pair of runs (if it would have even come down to a 3rd down) made much more sense there.
That play call is comparable to my boss asking me to figure out a complicated spread sheet by hand rather than using excel. Sure it’s up to me to execute his idea but his idea is doomed to fail or is at least needless complicated in the first place.
The 2009 Dallas Cowboys: Talk to me in December.
The NFC East has won 11 Super Bowls; oddly none of those have come courtesy of the Eagles.
If there wasn't a viable option to replace you
then how is it his fault?? Sure, you can debate the play calling all day long, but you’re only speculating that running the ball in that situation would have been successful, you don’t know for sure.
I personally think a play action pass on the goal line is 100% the way to go because the execution of that play isn’t as difficult as a fade in the corner of the end zone.
In Romo we Trust
And...
It allows for more options than the fade, which is basically all or nothing on that one receiver.
by Baked Potato Soup on Oct 23, 2009 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I have yet to see a player…
…design a blitz package, or bunch formation, or decide in training camp which of their colleagues are worthy of starting.
Most of us fans could see that that Austin should be starting in place of Crayton during training camp. It only took this staff one injury to RW and 6 weeks into the season to finally come to the same conclusion.
Coaches have to get the players ready to play and formalize a good game plan and make necessary adjustments at halftime,
^ Many would argue that this staff doesn’t do a good job of this ^
The 2009 Dallas Cowboys: Talk to me in December.
The NFC East has won 11 Super Bowls; oddly none of those have come courtesy of the Eagles.
based on what??
How could you see Austin should be starting in camp?? Did Grizz or Raf, who actually were there say so?? What did Austin do in pre season games that would make you believe that?
The players let us down when we lose, not the coaches, they’re just the more convenient scapegoat for the fans who have to put blame somewhere.
In Romo we Trust
Based on his speed.
Based on the fact that Crayton’s contributions have been minimal over the past 3 years. Based on the fact that Crayton has been much more effective out of the slot position when he has produced. And based on some of what Austin has shown when healthy and given a chance, (i.e. Green Bay last year and the Tampa game this year).
The 2009 Dallas Cowboys: Talk to me in December.
The NFC East has won 11 Super Bowls; oddly none of those have come courtesy of the Eagles.
I disagree
Crayton’s contributions were anything but minimal in 2007 when he had to replace Terry Glenn and did a great job and put up good numbers. He wasn’t in the slot then.
Coaches rarely play an unproven player on potential, they want to see it on the field first.
In Romo we Trust
If it weren't for Crayton's huge game against the Rams in 2007
his final stats that year would have been very close to his numbers in 2006 and 2008 – 35-40 catches for 500-575 yards and 4-5 TDs.
In these days of high-powered passing attacks, when the rules are made to encourage more passing and scoring, those are pretty weak numbers for a #2 receiver. Nice for a slot guy, though.
Crayton was the #3 option in our passing attack behind
T.O. and Witten, I think they weren’t bad numbers for a #3 option.
In Romo we Trust
Yeah, but what if Chiefs dude '09 is no better than Rams dude '07?
I just hope Austin’s monster game wasn’t a mystical fart in the whirlwind against abysmal competition.
That's not really fair, though.
Anyone’s stats can look better or worse if you remove certain games. If you went around the league and did that for every receiver, his numbers would probably fall right back in line.
That said, this coaching staff does seem to be unusually reluctant to give young players opportunities, even when they have previously proven themselves. I’m actually quite surprised that Austin is getting the start.
by Baked Potato Soup on Oct 23, 2009 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions
based on a coaches decisions
you keep blaming the players, i agree to a point though! Coaches ARE the ones that call the plays, and just because a coach calls the wrong play in the heat of competition doesn’t mean a player on the field cannot execute.. gets back to what i’ve always said; a COACH needs to light a fire under the players a…., if he is not able to do that then what good is he except to shoulder ALL of OUR blame for a loss. Remember, a coach makes the ultimate decisions in a game, all a player on THE field has to do is to execute(be in the right place at the right time) hell, they don’t even have to be in on the tackle or block etc.,etc. there will be someone near that could or should make a play. Everyone is capable of indecision at anytime. So yes, players do let us down when they lose, BUT coaches also let us down in losses due to indecision. So in closing we MUST put the blame on the whole team not just a player or a coach. Hell, even the WATER BOYS are responsible for losses, ie. overhydrating or not hydrating a player correctly. We as fans can put the blame wherever we want because that IS ALL that we are, FANS!!!!!
how do you know if it's a wrong play?
and if grown men need motivated and a fire lit under their ass, then they aren’t the kind of players who will win anything anyway.
In Romo we Trust
There are so many TOP coaches on the sidelines right now.....
It would be a shock to not have Wade replaced by Shanahan, Guden, or Dungy! JJ is going to hire a real coach this time around.
-1
Crayton finishes his route-he catches a TD to beat the eventual champs.
Ken Hamlin makes 1 tackle in the last ever Texas Stadium home game, we’re back in the playoffs.
Wade is a good man, and a good coach.
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
Wade extension?
why not?
"Another thing that freaks me out is time. Time is like a book. You have a beginning, a middle and an end. It's just a cycle." -Tyson
If you're baiting me,
I’m taking it. I’m all for keeping Wade around. The more of “Wade’s” guys get on the roster, the better.
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
don't laugh
If we make the playoffs and win a game, it’s more than likely to happen actually
In Romo we Trust
dead horse
Good comments,BUT…..I am not blasting the coaching! A coach has a whole lot to do with how his prepares for a game. What I should’ve said is that our Coach needs to instill player respect. Seems that he hasn’t done that yet after a few seasons. A player is like an American Soldier, they have all of the talent that they need, all that is lacking is GUIDANCE!! Coach Wade could be better served adhering to that philosophy.
Every year a number of good players end up in the Pro Bowl who are on bad teams with bad coaches.
Good players don’t really need a coach to light a fire under them. They are good regardless of who the coach is or isn’t.
Winning takes talent, to repeat takes character. - John Wooden
this is not Pop Warner
NFL coaching isn’t about motivating players
"Another thing that freaks me out is time. Time is like a book. You have a beginning, a middle and an end. It's just a cycle." -Tyson
Every year there is new head coach somewhere that turns around a team...
that was below .500 the year before. Last year’s Falcons,Dolphins and Ravens are great examples of this.
The 2009 Dallas Cowboys: Talk to me in December.
The NFC East has won 11 Super Bowls; oddly none of those have come courtesy of the Eagles.
with players he acquired
You name a coach who turned around a team, and I’ll name you a team with substantial player turnover from the year before.
In Romo we Trust
Parcells took the SAME 5-11 Dave Campo team from 2002...
And went 10-6 and made the playoffs in 2003… With almost the exact same roster.
There is no debating that the players have to execute to be successful but if both teams are executing every play 100% then which team will win out. The team with the better play called that’s who. Gone are the days when a franchise or two could load up several hall of fame players and just win with talent alone. In today’s league the difference in talent between the best team and the worst is very small; and it’s the teams with the better coaching staffs that are annually competing for titles (that and better QBs).
I hate to have to go back to New England again but they require their players to have a certain IQ in order to make the team. And every year they tend to be one of the smartest teams in the league. Their coaching staff won’t allow their team to have personnel that will make stupid decisions on game day. They are able to look beyond someone’s 40 time and vertical jump and instead gauge their football smarts. Dallas could use a lot of work in this area and I’m not sure they have the right people in place to assess this sort of thing.
We’ll see. As a fan I’m willing to give Wade and Jason the rest of 2009 to make their mark. I just hope Jerry does the right thing at season’s end; reacting accordingly to whatever transpires over the remainder of this season.
The 2009 Dallas Cowboys: Talk to me in December.
The NFC East has won 11 Super Bowls; oddly none of those have come courtesy of the Eagles.
it wasn't the same team, give me a break
Bill brought in a lot of key players on that team, “Parcells guys” who made a big impact on the team. Richie Anderson, Terry Glenn, the list goes on.
In Romo we Trust
Players have to make their mark
Wade and Jason will continue to do what they’ve been doing, the players are the ones that need to step up their play.
In Romo we Trust
Parcells did not have the SAME team as Campo.....
I counted 27 guys on the 2003 roster that were not on the 2002 roster
27 is half of the 54 man roster. HALF OF THE TEAM WAS DIFFERENT, including 10 different starters on game 1 from 2002 to 2003
RB 2002 – last year for E Smith
RB 2003 – Hambrick
OL 2002 – Garmon and Page
OL 2003 – Lehr and Young
TE 2002 – McGee
TE 2003 – Campbell and Witten
WR 2002 – Bryant
WR 2003 – Glenn
DT 2002 – Noble
DT 2003 – Myers
LB 2002 – Hardy
LB 2003 – Singleton
CB 2002 – Westbrook
CB 2003 – Newman
P 2002 – Knorr
P 2003 – Gowin
Winning takes talent, to repeat takes character. - John Wooden
I stand corrected...
I thought it was between the ’03 and ’04 seasons that the biggest roster changes happened.
It does show that when Parcells first came here that he was given the option to bring in some players he thought he could win with; an option that Phillips in his defense has had very little of, (though this year he was able to bring in Brooking and Igor who have looked very nice so far).
How about Tampa Bay in ’02? Gruden took over the exact same team that Dungy had been released from and won a Super Bowl with them. In this case the Buccaneers partly benefited from the new divisions alinements but they also benefited from a change in coaching. There was nothing wrong with Dungy as he would later prove with the Colts but Gruden was a better fit and had a better approach for that team at that time. He brought just enough of a change to their offensive philosophy that they were finally able to produce just enough more in the way of points to have their best season.
You’re just not going to convince me that coaching does not have any impact on the game and that it’s all 100% on the players. If this is the case then the Cowboys have no business honoring Tom Landry with that statute because he apparently had nothing to do with their success and they would have been just as good with Dave Campo running those teams for the first 29 years.
The 2009 Dallas Cowboys: Talk to me in December.
The NFC East has won 11 Super Bowls; oddly none of those have come courtesy of the Eagles.
I don't think anyone has suggested that success is 100% of the players and 0% of the coaches
Winning takes talent, to repeat takes character. - John Wooden
doesn't mean Dungy wouldn't have won the SB with the same team
and I never implied that coaching doesn’t have an impact on the game, just that the players impact are much, much greater
In Romo we Trust
You check out Brandon Marshall's interview with Jim Rome...
(I’ll try and find a link)
He talks about how prepared his team is under Josh McDaniels. He talks about how they go over every detail 100 of times a day to the point were they are sick of it but come game time they are not surprised by anything. He says that he has never felt more prepared week in and week out in his entire football life.
The 2009 Dallas Cowboys: Talk to me in December.
The NFC East has won 11 Super Bowls; oddly none of those have come courtesy of the Eagles.
Cowboys problems have been lack of execution
it hasn’t been not being prepared well, and obviously thats on the players.
In Romo we Trust
I don't want one of those retreads
I want a young unknown coach who can reach today’s players and stay around for a while.
Look around the League...
Bill Parcells draws respect out of every fanbase, how he turned around every franchise that he touched with his my-way-or-the-highway methods and he’s viewed as one of the all time best head coaches of the game.
Guess what? A lot of the same players struggled through the same things under him.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
From the moment Jerry hired him I never thought Parcells…
…was going to do a damn thing here. I thought the game had passed him by and I was always more interested in seeing Parcells take on the same type role he has presently in Miami because I believed his successful coaching days were over. And to be fair the Cowboys did have 3 straight 5-11 seasons before he arrived and have not looked that bad since.
Wade was certainly IMHO not the answer as a replacement coach. His success in this league was always minimal and I had hoped Jerry would go with someone more up and coming like Soprano, or McDaniels.
Look at the way Belechik let guys like Lawyer Milloy, and Ty Law, and most recently Richard Seymour go (all while in their primes) and yet his teams continue to win. He and his staff have proven they are phenomenal at evaluating the talent on their roster and aren’t afraid to make the necessary changes (like most recently benching Adieus Thomas) that most benefit the team even if that means benching a big money free agent pickup.
The Cowboy organization just does not have the stones to do this sort of thing.
The 2009 Dallas Cowboys: Talk to me in December.
The NFC East has won 11 Super Bowls; oddly none of those have come courtesy of the Eagles.
that same organization you tout, lost their chance at a 4th SB with that tactic
They got rid of Deion Branch for a first rounder in 07 (Brandon Merriweather) and got burned for it in the AFC Championship game when Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney couldn’t catch the swine flu if you spit in their mouth.
The Pats get too much credit. ONE MAN has been carrying their water for a long time. It’s not Belichick, it’s Brady. By not having to draft a QB it makes drafting way easier, less money is wasted on bad players. But, the Pats haven’t been doing well in the draft lately, anyway. Their free agents have been hit or miss as well. Notable misses are Adalious Thomas, Fred Taylor and Galloway.
Jerruh has made some bad decisions, but to my knowledge he hasn’t lost a Super Bowl singlehandedly like the Pats with a dumb personnel move.
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
Jerry forced Jimmy out, and that cost the Cowboys a third Super Bowl in a row
and Jerry has been making the personnel decisions since Jimmy left (except for the time Parcells was here and even then he did not completely hand over the reigns) and the Cowboys have not sniffed a Super Bowl, except for the one that Switzer won with Jimmy’s players
I am all for bashing New England, but you cannot possibly argue that Dallas has made better personnel decisions over the past decade
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
yes he did despite claims to the contrary
Jerry has made every personnel decision for the Cowboys since he bought the team, it’s a myth that Jimmy was running everything and Jerry allowed him free reign.
Jerry listened to Jimmy and usually followed his advise, but don’t kid yourself, Jerry has always made every final decision from socks to jocks in this organization since 1989.
In Romo we Trust
unless you mean hiring Jimmy in the first place
and the janitors
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
That same team I tout also started the 2007 season 18-0...
…and nearly won their 4th super bowl this decade. That same team finished 11-5 with their star QB out for the season in ‘08 and that same team could very well win the Super Bowl again this year. They certainly haven’t gone 12 straight season without a single playoff victory.
Let’s face it. New England has mastered the salary cap/ free agency era.
Now if next season begins a cap free era, things could change quite a bit and this very well could benefit an organization like Dallas.
The 2009 Dallas Cowboys: Talk to me in December.
The NFC East has won 11 Super Bowls; oddly none of those have come courtesy of the Eagles.
Beating a dead horse, but I think its more the players
If Romo plays well against NYG and Denver, we’re 5-0. If the defense can execute down the stretch, we’re 5-0 – it hasn’t mattered what wade has called, we’ve been ineffective. While Garrett had some mind boggling calls in the red zone, we were some good throws away from winning both games.
There are times I think coaches are to blame. In the last two plays against denver, keeping witten in is stupidity. In our last year with parcells, we could not cover rbs/tes/guys in the flat. That imo was a coaching problem – parcells scheme and desire for huge lbers was kinda exposed I thought.
Generally though, with this team,its the players. Its the oline and qb making mind boggling mistakes. I frankly don’t put that on garrett’s shoulders since we’ve seen this all along. Its the wrs not getting separation or dropping balls. Its the horrible play from the safeties.
I'm not sure why teams even have coaches...
…since they make no difference as to how good a team is. Why do they even allow coaches into the hall of fame?
The 2009 Dallas Cowboys: Talk to me in December.
The NFC East has won 11 Super Bowls; oddly none of those have come courtesy of the Eagles.
I think there is a proper balance
A good coach does have influence on players and improves their play, but also good players do so many things that can’t be coached.
On the players’ side of the argument is the fact that good players end up in the Pro Bowl every year off of bad teams with bad coaches. Larry Fitz. is going to be a great receiver regardless of who his coach is. Same holds true for lots of guys.
Did Barry Sanders ever have a good coach – NO – yet he was one of the best RBs ever.
Winning takes talent, to repeat takes character. - John Wooden
I think it's both.
Obviously the players have to execute, but the coaches are responsible for preparing them. When they continually make mental mistakes, look confused, and don’t show situational awareness, that is poor coaching, in my opinion.
by Baked Potato Soup on Oct 23, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions
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