I would like to extend a sincere thank you to Bill Belicheat
by cowboy78 on Nov 16, 2009 7:41 PM CST
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Thank you Bill
If it wasn't for your decision on 4&2 in last night's game; the result was a failed conversion and it has become sports talk radio gold. I did not see dallas dominating the headlines on the national level, for once after a cowboys loss it was not front page news. Even the local media is not making too much hoopla over the game, the standard ones are out there but I remember the loss to NY and Den being bigger news; I know we do not venture outside of our blog here too often but it was a nice suprise.
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Haha
although it’s kind of hard to pile on a team that lost a game after a 4-game winning streak.
I still believe in Romo.
Piling on "a team"
and piling on “the Cowboys” are two entirely different things. It’s a national past time.
Drinking the Blue Kool-Aid since 1980. "Ohhhhhh yeeeaaaaahhhh!"
we were only favored by 3 points
losing at Lambeau to a good Packers team is not the end of the world.
In Romo we Trust
Although It was the right call
The Knights season may have just ended, but the Cowboys year is just begining!
I love that call
You play to win the game. Do you put the ball in the hands of your qb, of one of the best qbs of all time, to make a play with short yardage receivers like welker and faulk and an oline thats done well, or do you punt the ball to one of the other best qbs of all time and hope your defense makes a stop despite looking like swiss cheese during the quarter.
Just putting numbers out there, I’d think the Colts will drive 70 yards for the td in that situation over half the time. The Pats probably make that first down 60+% of the time. I don’t think its even questionable if you think about it rationally, despite the fact that it goes against many of the games basic principles.
Coaches rarely take risks in this league. Even though I’m not a fan of NE at all, I kinda wish it paid off cause the move showed intelligence and guts. I know many many fans are loving that it failed today, but I would hope my team would do the same thing.
But maybe thats just me as a cowboys fan thinking about how scared I’d be of this 55 minute D punting the ball with peyton manning on the other sideline.
then why have punters?
Just go for it every fourth down. It was a dumb call. he let his ego get to him and he got burnt. I hope that will be the beginning of the end of using Belichick and “genius” in the same sentence.
"Right after the game, say as little as possible."
- Tom Landry
Firstly he has engineered one of the most successful dynasties in NFL history
so he will still be considered a genius. asking why have punters suggests that you will not. Foyesboys didn’t say go for it every time and never punt, he just reasonably suggested that when you have one of the best qbs in the game and a defense that just got torched twice, you should have faith that you can pick up two yards.
The Knights season may have just ended, but the Cowboys year is just begining!
by aussie_cowboy on Nov 16, 2009 11:50 PM CST up reply actions
people let their hatred for belicik cloud their view of this decision
If the situations were completely reversed, I would say the Colts should go for it too.
You’re talking about all time great qbs, guys who excel in these situations. Don’t give me that “Why have punters” crap..you’re talking about a single end of game situation where the Colts were RED HOT and the best thing the Pats have going for them is their offense. Manning EXCELS in these situations, his end of half scoring drive percentage is probably something completely ridiculous this year. The Colts had been gaining 15-20 yards a play with ease in that quarter.
As a coach, you make the decision that gives your team the best chance of winning the game. You do that by putting the ball in the hands of your best players. IMO, in this situation you don’t even think about kicking the ball unless its 4th and 4+.
Do you take 1 shot at getting 2 yards with one of the greatest qbs in league history and 2 exceedingly reliable short yardage wr threats in welker and faulk or do you punt it to Peyton Freakin Manning in maybe the best year of his storied career and give him around 2 minutes to go 70 yards?
settle down
Both you and aussie_boy think you are smarter than you are. Yes, Belichick is a great coach and has a football mind greater than most coaches he plays against. But let’s put to rest the idea of genuis, okay? Let’s leave that for true geniuses – you know, Einstein, Newton, Mozart etc.
Now, on to your silly arguments: “As a coach, you make the decision that gives your team the best chance of winning the game. You do that by putting the ball in the hands of your best players. IMO, in this situation you don’t even think about kicking the ball unless its 4th and 4+.”
1) That is just not true. If it were, Randy Moss and Tom Brady would be the only two people touching the ball each games. It sounds like a fancy thing to say, but really its just regurgitating common misconceptions. You put the ball where it needs to be. Going for a fourth deep in your own territory is silly, unless of course Brady has something like a 90% conversion rate (and Manning vice versa, has a two minute offense that scores 90% of the time). Doubtful.
2) Whats the difference between 4th and 1 or 2 and 4th and 4? Is Brady’s pass to Welker going to be different based on two yards? What is the difference smart guy?
All the people on here praising the call that lost the game would be going ape shit if Wade Phillips made the same call. What does that tell you? It tells me that similar to what you said, people let their belief in the hype about Belichick cloud their view of this decision.
"Right after the game, say as little as possible."
- Tom Landry
They were calling him a genius in the context of football.
I think that’s a fair assessment. There are different kinds of intelligence and genius and being able to consistently field great teams and outscheme your opponents in the highest level of football qualifies someone as a football genius to me.
I can’t believe you take issue with the line “putting the ball in the hands of your best players.” Your argument is twisted and ignorant. If the Lakers are down by 1 with 10 seconds remaining, you give the ball to Kobe Bryant – that doesn’t mean he shoots every shot all game (although sometimes it looks like he’s trying to). Similarly, if the Pats have the chance to win the game by picking up 2 yards, you go for it
There is obviously a huge difference btw 4th and 1, 2, 3 and 4+. The yardage determines what plays you can call. As it was, they would’ve converted if it was 4th and 1 and a half. Anyone who has ever played or watched football or seen Any Given Sunday knows its a game of inches.
And I don’t think I’d be pissed at Wade if he decided to take a gamble and win the game. No one expects calls like that to be right 100% of the time – I’d give him credit for it
Ignorant?
Look at your argument:
“I can’t believe you take issue with the line "putting the ball in the hands of your best players." Your argument is twisted and ignorant. If the Lakers are down by 1 with 10 seconds remaining, you give the ball to Kobe Bryant – that doesn’t mean he shoots every shot all game (although sometimes it looks like he’s trying to). Similarly, if the Pats have the chance to win the game by picking up 2 yards, you go for it”
Let’s see in basketball there are 5 players and one goal, score a basket before the shot clock runs out. you can’t really play the clock like you can in football and possessions are not so formalized as they are in football. So, yes, give it to Kobe. In football however, there are 22 players and many ways to handle a situation as time is running out. You can gamble and give it to your Kobe (in this case Brady) or you can give it to one of the other 21 millionaires you pay each month so that they can do their job. Yes, Brady is great. But he is not greater than the game itself.
I also note that in this case the Patriots were not down. They were in fact winning.
And please, don’t go around calling people ignorant if you are going to back up your lame arguments with “Any Given Sunday”!
"Right after the game, say as little as possible."
- Tom Landry
yea basketball is very different.
but i don’t think its even a question as to which patriots unit was playing better – the Pats offense was playing great that game. The defense was swiss cheese throughout the quarter. The argument still holds – Belicik decided that his offense that game gave them the better chance to win in that situation.
Obviously my point was not to say basketball had similar rules
and gameplay to football. But in either sport, and any team sport really, it makes the most sense to put the game in the hands of your best players when it comes down to the wire.
That’s Brady – you said yourself he is great. How is it a stupid call to take a shot to win the game right there with their best weapon, instead of hoping their suspect defense makes a stop. Instead of drawing it out, Belichick wanted to end it right there. Do you think it’s always wrong to gamble? Would you never forgo the XP to tie and go for 2 instead to prevent a game from going into OT on the road?
You make it seem as if punting the ball wouldn’t be a gamble, when it certainly was. As others have pointed out, their D hadn’t come close to stopping them, so why would they expect to then?
Also, please note I referred to your argument as ignorant, not you. I think what is ignorant is always playing by “standard” football practices. And the Any Given Sunday thing was a joke, it’s not like I’m getting football lessons from a Jamie Foxx movie, c’mon son!
Also, I have no doubt that I have little chance of convincing you otherwise
However, I can definitely see where you’re coming from and you make some good points. I hope you can see some validity to what my side too.
This is the kind of stuff that makes sports, and blogging about them, so fun. If everything was clear cut and black and white we wouldn’t have anything to do with ourselves haha.
has absolutely NOTHING to do with belicik
I would love this call if Wade made it. Parcells made many of these gutsy calls when he was coach (although admittedly none that gutsy).
(1) – you’re oversimplifying this. The Pats have GREAT short yardage receiving options. Their oline did a good job all night. Brady is Brady. The Pats offense was having great success moving the ball.
Meanwhile, Peyton Manning had driven the COlts down the field twice that quarter. The last drive went 80 yards in under 2 minutes and that was with the pats trying to force them to use as much time as possible. The precedent was already there. Was the pats defense going to be less tired this next time around? I’m not saying the Colts were absolutely going to score, but EVERYTHING was in their favor.
(2) There is absolutely a difference between 4th and 2 and 4th and 4. FOurth and 4 means its automatically a passing down, it means the wrs need to go 2 yards further, which makes the defenses job easier. Go look up the difference between 4th and 2 conversion and 4th and 4 conversion. Look at the % of plays in general that gain 2 yards compared to 4.
Your argument that its only a good decision if Brady has a 90% success rate is equally as crazy. Belicik in making his decision gave them a SIGNIFICANTLY better chance at winning the game (imo) – taking it from something like 40-60 to 60-40 or better. Is this the wrong decision just because it doesn’t follow the common football script? This league isn’t the same as it was 20 years ago. Its a qb based league, and these two offense in particular are extremely strong, with the defenses looking very suspect that night.
yikes...
I’ll take Foyes and Aussie on this one..
Absolutes don’t apply on 4th an 2 to win the game.
Readers digest version…
Belicheck trusted his offense more to pick up 2 yard than he did to his defense to stop Peyton on a long field.
I like that call..
also..this is why this has taken the Cowboys loss out of the media it’s a great debate. CASE IN POINT!
i liked the call to go for it
not necessarily the play call…. i would have ran something a little past the first down marker, makin it easy to focus on just passing and catching the ball, not worrying about getting past the first down….
by CowboysFan4Life on Nov 17, 2009 10:45 AM CST up reply actions
yea me too
I agree on that. That was way too close. It possible Kevin Faulk screwed it up though and it should’ve gone a yard further or something.
I did too
It’s Peyton…in Indy…with pleanty of time and all 3 time out’s.
I don’t care if he has to take them 99 yards, he had found his rhythym and was putting the ball right on his receivers. They were going to score.
The key play in that game was not Bellicheat’s decision. It was when Addai got tackled at the two with 1:16 left on the clock. If he had scored, Tom would have had enough time to give their kicker a chip shot.
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
yea
But Belicik blowing those timeouts really hurt too. The combination of those two were a big reason why the pats didn’t have enough time to get in fg range. Also, credit peyton for running the clock down – in fact, this decsion was even more questionable than belicik’s, cause in a close game in the fourth, it prevented them from being able to run the ball in the red zone.
These teams have a ridiculous amount of respect for the others’ qb, to the point where their decisions yesterday looked almost backwards to the average fan..
I love Belichick
He’s the kind of guy you want as your team’s head coach. I’d trade Wade and two firsts for him no question.
Great call, great coach.
I hope we never do another trade that requires us to give 2 1st rounders,
no matter what it is for. I just think the risks are too high
He's a cheater, but he's a smart cheater
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
If only Belicheck
had used “Load Left”
After Fuentes blows a save and an Angels loss to the Indians:
"Angels still in first place" - UCI Halo
"Hey you know who would have gotten those 3 outs in the 9th?
Darren O’Day." - FirebatM3
LOL
People are also forgetting....
…that the Colts had just driven something like 70-80 yards and scored a TD on the previous drive. The Pats D was gassed and hadn’t really done much to stop Manning the whole game. As much as I dislike Bellicheck I think in THAT specific situation he did the right thing. It just didn’t work. Jimmy Johnson did the same sort of thing in the early 90’s and when it failed he told the D that he had just written the check and they had to cover it. And they DID. The Pats D just didn’t cover the check.
79 yard TDs on 2 of the last 3 drives
Neither of which took more than 3 minutes
The Knights season may have just ended, but the Cowboys year is just begining!
by aussie_cowboy on Nov 18, 2009 10:23 PM CST up reply actions
Im not so into football...
that I would care to guess, or out think geniuses(yes, geniuses), like Belicheat…Im sorry, but the best I can say about this, and only thing I can say about this game was that belicheat had balls enough to call the play, and come hell or high water, he was going to stand by his decision..Im really not sure why we cant leave it at that..FEAR THE STAR
by Hawgz, Bugz, and FilthyFowl Hater on Nov 19, 2009 2:10 AM CST reply actions
Well from the comments I can see how the MSM has been able to continue discussing this topic all the way
into today. Other than Steve Dennis, there really isn’t anyone interested in the running game of dallas. I think Steve Czaban from FSR put it best.
The Belicheck decision is like a wooley mammoth talking point, it will fill the sports talk tribe for weeks(metaphorically) as opposed to other topics that are more of the buffalo variety that will feed the tribe for days. This topic has some real staying power, it will linger for the rest of the season. Especially if the pats give up anymore close games.
Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!
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