Dallas Defenders Decry 'Dirty Points'
by Rafael Vela on Nov 4, 2009 9:15 AM CST
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Print73 yards = 41 points
The Cowboys don't have a stellar defense, yardage wise. Demarcus and the Gang rank 22nd overall, and are still trying to overcome the yards they hemorrhaged in the Bucs and Giants games.
They are much better in points allowed, ranking 10th with 19.4 per game, and would be much better if the offense and special teams practiced better ball custody. Consider the short fields the defense has had to defend:
Versus New York
- Romo interception returned for a touchdown;
- Felix Jones fumbles a kickoff at his own 27. Dallas gives up 18 yards and a field goal.
- Jason Witten backheels a pass into Kenny Phillips' hands. New York drives 28 yards for a touchdown
- Total -- 46 yards allowed, 17 points
Versus Denver
- The Broncos drive eight yards after a Romo fumble for a touchdown.
- Total -- 8 yards, 7 points
Versus Kansas City
- Patrick Crayton fumbles on his own 22. The Chiefs are driven back six yards and kick a field goal.
- Tony Romo fumbles away a center snap. K.C. drives sixteen yards for a touchdown.
- Total -- 10 yards, 10 points
Versus Seattle
- Romo fumbles a pass attempt on his nine. Seattle drives for a touchdown.
- Total -- 9 yards, 7 points.
The defense must hate those last three games. They surrender just 27 yards on four red zone series,an average of 6.75 yards per possession, and 24 points go up on the board.
I understand I'm examining this in a vacuum. It would be very interesting to see how all the NFL defenses would rank if you discounted "dirty points" or awarded the to their offenses. (Maybe deducting them from the offense's point totals might be a more just way of accounting for them?)
Those 41 points are the difference between 19.4 points per game and 13.6 points per game. For arguments sake, that latter number would rank 2nd in the league, between the Colts' 13.0 ppg., and the Broncos' 13.7.
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Still on the D though
I agree that pics or fumbles returned for TD’s should never be counted against a D. However, fumbles or pics that put the O deep in their territory is a fact of the game. Its like taking points away from the O when the D gets a pic or fumble deep in the opponents territory.
Take it for what it's worth.
Especially since turnovers are one of the biggest things people harp on this team for. The point is that the defense is actually somewhat elite ppg wise if not for these short fields. To your point, having Cribbs put up points for the Browns makes their offense look better than it is, which is comical because it still looks horrible, but we still know their offense is horrible. However, the two teams he mentioned, the Colts and Broncos, are two teams with consistant offenses, and so they aren’t giving up garbage points. Now they do have good defenses, but not having short fields helps that out a lot. Dallas’ greate ST play has given teams a lot of long fields but turnovers flip that very quickly and it’s a legitimate aspect to consider. I think the point of it all is that Dallas can shut people down if the offense doesn’t give up turnovers in their own end.
"I’m ready to go here, all right? It’s like R. Kelly at recess."
"You will come back stronger then ever. Like Lance Armstrong. But with two balls."
-Ari Gold
It is on the D
It counts on the stats. I guess another way to look at is the offense and special teams are gifting 6 points per game thus far. That will get you killed in tough games.
At least they're going in the right direction.
They have been less in last few games
Tom Landry=the greatest football mind ever.
Massaging the numbers
Ooohh, that was a nice back-rub Raf.
I agree that the full season numbers don’t do justice to the overall performance of the defense. Another way to look at the D stats is to look at the last 5 games average: 16.4 points allowed, 303.6 yards allowed. That’s pretty respectable, and while opp’s W-L was 16-19, it did have two quality teams in the mix.
by One.Cool.Customer on Nov 4, 2009 9:46 AM CST reply actions
Turnovers are death
All the “dirty points” are based on turnovers, which have killed this team in the past. This year, we are actually doing better, despite the mistakes Raf catalogues.
We won’t beat the Eagles this week if we give them easy TDs and FGs. Make them drive the field and Dallas should win, perhaps going away. But Philly just feasts on these “dirty points.”
Agree about the turnovers.........
ball security is the most important thing about this game. Remember, last game(groan) that’s what got us killed. Our defense has done much better than the stats because of these gift points that we keep giving away. Even though the game was basically over last week against Seattle, you can’t just keep gifting the other team. Romo has to protect the ball like it’s his little child or I can see it getting ugly really quick. If you look at all of Philly’s wins, they jump out to a quick lead and never look back. We have to hold them in the early part of the game and not let them jump out to a lead on us.
The reverse could be said of the Offense
The D takes a pick or fumble to the house, or, makes a turnover and put the O in business in the Red Zone, they score and the points go to the Offense. I’ve always wondered, but not enough to research it I guess, if an offenses scoring average counts the points a D or ST unit provides.
Hmm maybe that's why it is a Team Sport.
Offense goes down and scores, then the Defense gets torched in the last two minutes. You gonna call that loss on the offense?
"Help, it's hot and dark in here and someone is laughing." Taco Bell
I think this is one of the main reasons
I didnt get worked up early in the season. We spotted everyone an average of 10 points in our losses.
People have been asking the last 2-3 weeks whats wrong with the Giants D. If you could put away your contempt for Romo(fans) or the Cowboys(nonfans) and take stock of what actually happened in that game you would have seen the Giants actually got steamrolled by an inconsistent, mistake prone offense.
Take another look at their first 5 games and they played us and 4 bottom dwellers. We gift wrapped the game too them. They are in trouble. Of course Coughlin can get them straight if they listen.
KICK ASS every day!!!
Way too much fun
reading this stuff….
Great look Raf…
however, i remember a few years back with Parcells our D was ranked VERY high, if not #1 in yards allowed.. however we were not a good team… 6 and 10 or somethign like that…
well that year our O did NOTHING so opposing Offenses always had the ball in great field position, and like stated above, we would give up FEW yards but the other team would score….
so yards were low, scoring was high against our D…
fun to look at these things though…
actually we went 10-6 and made the playoffs that year, 2003
We had to have the #1 defense in the league because we had Quincy Carter at qb.
In Romo we Trust
good ol Quincy Carter.......
I still have an autographed football laying around somewhere upstairs that my sons got at Jay Novaceks football camp. We thought the football might be valuable some day-LOL
Hey that is not as bad as paying $40 bucks for Alvin Harper's rookie card.
In 1993 thinking it would be valuable; my dad was shaking his head. I was about 15 years old when I did that, I have no idea where that card is now.
Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!
that's funny......
I got my curiosity up and went and found the football. Anybody remember Pete Hunter? He signed it too-not that’s a Pro Bowl Lineup-Quincy Carter and Pete Hunter autographed football-LOL. Actually, Jay Novacek did sign the football so I guess we did get one good name right?
I'll trade you the Novacek ball
for the Roy Horsecollar Williams-autographed helmet my gf got me for Christmas the other year…oh, how times change lol
by goldnboi7 on Nov 4, 2009 11:51 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'm still a big QC fan.
When he joined the KC arena football team, I tried to watch his game, but it wasn’t on. He hasn’t been in the news recently… I guess that is both good and bad.
I didn't know there was ever any QC fans
I bet that is a small fan club
Tom Landry=the greatest football mind ever.
I still love the Quincy.
It wasn’t his fault that he was drafted higher than he should. He was projected at about the 5th round, but the Raiders were considering taking him before the Cowboys did.
I would say, 5th round for his talent level was about right, and that’s about the type of production we got from him. So, people need to realize that we got, not what we paid for, but what he was.
Just because you pay $20 for a Snickers bar, doesn’t mean it is gourmey chocolate.
Yikes...the Raiders were itching to pick Quincy before Jerry?
That’s a huge red flag…
Hollywood took him to Austin and tried to help him.
I don’t know if it worked. I doubt it did.
Tom Landry=the greatest football mind ever.
I'd be surprised if Quincy could afford rehab.
I’m guessing he didn’t invest his money well.
This is why stats don't matter.
A defense is either good or not good. They match up well against another team or they don’t. Sure there are great areas, but you didn’t see the Ravens in their record setting season complain about dirty points. The defense pitched a shutout in the Super Bowl save for the kickoff return for a TD.
It will agree with the contention that the Cowboys are better than their statistics purport.
As I always say...
Lies, damn lies, and statistics.
While it’s nice to see your team lead statistical rankings, trying to use those rankings as an indicator of how the game will be played out is foolish. No way should Philthy have lost to Oakland. No way does Indy win the Miami game.
The team concept in football combined with that “any given Sunday” truism is what makes the game so great…and so maddening.
Just because my team’s offense outranks yours does not mean they’ll play better. And since I’ve never seen a game where one offense plays the other, it really does amount to a futile (purile?) game of “my dad can beat up your dad”.
But scoring, turnover margin, and penalties seem to combine to form a pretty good historical picture. I agree with most that actual net points scored/scored against (total points minus dirty points) would be an outstanding statistic of true unit performance.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
I tell my daughter than I can beat up the other fathers.
There’s no reason for her to doubt that I am capable of doing anything.
stats do matter
the final score is a stat
the win-loss record is a stat
Winning takes talent, to repeat takes character. - John Wooden
And the only stats that matter
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
well..........
I’d say if your QB threw zero touchdowns and 6 interceptions in a game, that stat would matter
If your run game had only 10 yards through 4 quarters, that stat would matter
If your team had 20 penalties for 200 yards, that stat would matter
If your kicker missed every field goal, that stat would matter
well…..you get the point….some stats do matter
Winning takes talent, to repeat takes character. - John Wooden
Not if we win the game
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
stats are an indicator of success in future games!
money can be exchanged for goods and services!
stats don’t matter in the super bowl tho
I sure hope not
Otherwise, after 4 games, we should have been looking for a new QB and setting tee times for January.
Stats can tell you why something occurred, but seldom predict future success.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
you said - stats can tell you why something occurred - good
now we can agree that stats are worthwhile
Winning takes talent, to repeat takes character. - John Wooden
How about stops in the 4th quarter when your team is in the lead stat?
How about we look up that stat and see how well this team compares?
because the record setting Ravens
had Trent Dilfer, who was given a lite, easy to digest offense, and forbidden to throw the ball down the field and instructed to throw the ball away instead of ever squeezing in a pass into tight coverage…
It's just nice to see what appears to be an improving defense lately.
If that continues, the stats will improve, too. And if the offense continues to improve, the ‘dirty points’ won’t be as significant.
"Everybody wants something but nobody wants to pay the price" - Michael Irvin
"Dirty points" = poor ooffense
Twist and massage all you want … they are who we thought they were.
Or as Coach Parcells says “You are who you are”. …. For the past 3 years Dallas’ offense has put the D, which has been average, in bad situations over and over again. It is what they are! They will be that until the the team protects the ball on a consistant basis. 3 games does not qualify!
by spadesking131313 on Nov 4, 2009 4:05 PM CST reply actions
Conversely
this defense has been given virtually every early draft pick and a HC who was all-D and still underperformed every year.
It’s team sport and neither side has been able to pull the other side out when times got rough. Hopefully this is the beginning of offense and defense that rescue the other when things go south.
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
Yeah, it's a team effort that counts
But, it does seem to me that if the offense hadn’t turned the ball over as much, Dallas would have made the playoffs last season and probably would be undefeated so far this season. Also the poor ST play has hurt them, especially last year.
They’ve finished in the top 10 in total defense the last 2 seasons. There’s room to improve, but I wouldn’t characterize it as under performing.
You can't stop Patrick Crayton, you can only hope to contain him.
The injuries on offense certainly did change the tide
Kosier, Flo, Romo, Witten, MBIII were all significant. By underperforming I mean that they have yet to make that critical stop when the game is on the line. I think they can and will this season. But so far, they have not been able to “step up”.
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
How about OT in the KC game?
If the defense hadn’t stuffed KC twice, and once at the 50 yard line, we’d be 4-3 right now. granted, playing devil’s advocate, they also allowed the tying score at the end of the fourth. But since that OT, they’ve not allowed opposing offenses to get to a point where “the game is on the line” in the fourth quarter. I’ve watched our defense (and actually our offense too) improve in every game so far this year. In Tampa, they couldn’t stop the run. Against the Giants, they couldn’t stop the pass or get pressure, but stuffed the run. Against the panthers they put it all together and Newman even made a game saving pick six as the panthers were attempting to tie the game. It’s improved and become more consistent every single game, and that’s all i look for. Our DB’s seem to be working more as a team than they did in years past. I think you don’t give the D enough credit this year because you’ve got preconceptions of who they are based on prior years. They’re a different team this year and doing a decent job. Honestly, I think Wade is starting to learn how to coach this team this year.
In the playoff loss to the Giants, the Cowboys D gave them....
14 embarrassingly easy points without the Giants having had the aide of a turnover.
Dirty points are a wonderful thing
Just last week as I ate dinner (at Hooters of course) I told the waitress how much I loved her dirty little points. Heck, she tipped me.
Last night I lay in bed looking up at the stars in the sky and I thought to myself, "where the heck is the ceiling?"
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