How to Pin a Loss on a Quarterback
by tyhall on Dec 14, 2009 3:14 PM CST
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I can't help but notice that people seem to be blaming a month as the reason behind the collapse of the Dallas Cowboys. The Giants at the Meadowlands and arguably the hottest team in the NFL are one thing, but a 10 degree drop in Dallas and a turn of your official DCC calender is ultimately the reason behind the team's current losing ways (BTW, for such a cold and cruel month to the Cowboys, Miss. December is quite hot).
The way I see it, I actually predicted the Cowboys to go 11-5 during the season. I even had this month starting 0-2 and then the Cowboys going 3-0 (NO, Wash, Philly) into the playoffs. My point isn't that I'm all-knowing or that I got everything else right this season (Titans & Texans over Colts anyone?), just that the 2 games in December so far won't mean anything if they turn it around; just two difficult games that the 'boys lost, no different than any other two game losing streak. They have to turn it around in NO, but this is more than possible, just like beating Wash and Philly (really, winning those last two should be of main concern). So use a little optimism, and reason, because the Cowboys have lost to some really good teams this year, but they have always been more than competitive and proved to at least play up (or down) to the level of their competition.
Also, Romo is awesome. Yes, some TDs have came when they meant little, but can't the same be said of all TDs in a loss? Besides the Green Bay game, it seems everyone of those "garbage drives" have started with enough time to have a comeback; I doubt that the opposing defense was playing that much worse knowing that their going against a big play team. If anything, I'd like to know why the offense executes so much better on their last drive than their first, or any for that matter. If you were to look at all their losses, you would notice that Dallas executes very well for most of their final drive.
Finally, I would like to make a pure opinionated assumption of dramatic proportions. Ready?... I wouldn't take a single quarterback over Tony, stay with me here... FOR THIS TEAM. For instance, imagine the great Peyton Manning back there taking more sacks than he ever has behind a line much worse than he is used to , it would most likely bring back memories of the eternal opossum Drew Bledsoe in terms of sacks (not saying he would put up similar numbers as Drew, but I doubt they would be as good as Tony's); the same goes for Brady, Brees, & Rivers. Romo is bringing this team up as far as he can, he needs a better line (which, while not a great run blocking line, is much worse suited for pass blocking). I don't know how much blame to put on coaching either, it seems the unit that is coming up short of late is that of the main role Wade is defended for being good at. I will say that I'd love the idea of a Cowher: someone who comes in and toughens the team, runs a 3-4, engages a strong run-oriented attack, and most importantly takes some of the GM responsibility; but really I don't know if there is really a coach that can make that big of a difference. I have to think that much like a president, coaches are often as much a representation of the time and the team as much as their team is a representation of them. What I'm trying to say is that, just like Pittsburgh was a physical team giving Cowher that physical reputation, Dallas may be a soft team just like it's cupcake head coach.
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Without a doubt, this season is still able to be saved.
If Dallas wins out, we win the division. The problem is that this will involve Dallas turning around their trend of falling short against good teams. It isn’t impossible, but it will require our defense reaching a new level of play-making ability and having our offense actually have its point production match its yard production. Hopefully this will be the year Dallas finally digs deep and takes care of business.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
there are some pretty good points in this post
I absolutely agree with your first one. This is a long season, and the ending hasn’t been written. If we win 1 of the next 3, it will be about our december collapse or whatever. If we win 2 or all 3 and make the playoffs, it will be the resilient nature of this team, as it has been all season.
My big worry is that we totally fell apart after ware got hurt. There was nobody to rile up the troops and get our head on straight again. We were crushed the last 10 minutes, and there was definitely a season over type of feel to that game. But we’ve felt this way before this year and they’ve overcome it.
Also, though I am much more fond of this “game manager” romo, and in terms of his evasiveness he may be exactly the kind of guy we need, you can’t count out the fact that a qb like brees or peyton ALWAYS manages to find the open guy and get the ball to him in stride. They consistently burn the blitz even when protection isn’t great, which is why teams hesitate to blitz them.
If there is one thing we can do offensively to improve our chances THIS season, its to call more downfield routes when we expect blitzes, so that we can beat them with legitiamate big plays (not 20 yarders) and make them regret it. We really haven’t done that much this year.
I don't think I finished my thought correctly
I meant that this team is soft, which give Phillips that soft reputation just as much as the opposite is true. Much like a guy like cowher is considered tough and Dungy finesse- they are given these reputations just as much based on the team they are given to work with as they are due to their coaching personalities.
by tyhall on Dec 14, 2009 4:36 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Well, going forward this year... I'm not putting my heart out there to be stomped.. again.
I’m now taking the ‘prove me wrong’ stance and take it from there.
This is completely mental and you can’t turn it on and off like a switch. During these December swoons (exception being last years final game when the entire team tanked).. you’ll notice. When one unit does something good, the other unit will waste no time screwing up.
We have a losers mentality. And I don’t have the first idea how it can be fixed. But, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
you are right
we could make the playoffs but for what?
you said we lost to some “good” teams
in the playoffs all your gonna see is good teams
Miss December is mighty Fine!
Maybe the boys need a little pep talk from her mid december!. In reality I still think they have a good chance at the post season. Even if they fall to the saints the Giants could very well loose at least one of their remaining 3 and philly is no lock to beat Denver. That said they must stop doing the little things that costs them games. Missed FG’s, setteling for fg’s, penalties and most importantly just not executing in the 3rd and 4th quarters.
Even after the goal line stand and missed fg they headed into the 4th all tied up with Diego facing 3rd and 12.
If theres a football God out there he would have Dallas rally when everyone has ruled them dead. N.O. is so beatable, make it happen Dallas!
"Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk"
by sprewelllatrell on Dec 14, 2009 6:11 PM CST reply actions
All three of us agree
must be a blue moon or something.
The Knights season may have just ended, but the Cowboys year is just begining!
by aussie_cowboy on Dec 15, 2009 5:00 AM CST up reply actions
Somebody has to answer for the players not executing
reminds of that great John McKay quote. Something like:
Reporter: What do you think about your players execution?
Coach McKay: I’m in favor of it.
that would be the players themselves
Ultimately, the owner will hold the HC responsible for that because he can’t release most of his players, especially the players that are locked into long term expensive contracts.
That being said, it’s still the player’s fault and responsibility ultimately.
That will be proven next year if we don’t make the playoffs and get a new HC, we’ll still have the same basic team and the results will be no different.
In Romo we Trust
Well slight disagreement there
I do believe the problem is 50/50 coaching/execution but it is the coaches job to get those under performing players into shape. To ensure that they are performing. I have never supported Phillips being hired and I can honestly say that he is as much at fault as the lackadaisical players that are not performing to standard.
With poor coaching comes poor execution.
Has anyone done an article this year on how many penalties we have compared to other years? Just curious.
coaches can't ensure they perform once they step out on the field
At that point, it’s all on them. You know it is possible that a player can be coached tremendously and still not execute, it happens all the time and especially with the Cowboys.
In Romo we Trust
But, I have a problem with just blaming the "December curse" <----not saying you are
What I do believe is that the Cowboys are going downhill performance wise over the course of the past 3 years. I think Wade would be a "finisher"if he changes some things in his style he would kick ass. But his history does not show that he can change.
Another off season with no tackling, and another season with tackling problems.
I know that we heard over and over how “tough” training camp was, and some continue to insist that players at this level don’t need work on fundamentals, but it seems like here we are again. The D is missing tackles, receivers are dropping balls all over the field, and running backs are putting the ball on the ground. Maybe if the team spent more time going legitimately full speed in camp, they would be more prepared to go full speed during the games.
And why does this offense never seem to get going until late in the game? That’s not a recent issue, as we haven’t scored an opening drive TD in weeks. I know that some people claim the players this, and the players that, but when the entire team continues to be out of position, unprepared, and sloppy, that’s on the coaches. Usually where you find an entire class of bad students, it’s because of bad teachers.
by Baked Potato Soup on Dec 14, 2009 11:50 PM CST reply actions
I really don't think we tackle that poorly
aside from the giants games, we’ve tackled well all year. RBs seem to rarely get away from us.
We defintely don’t seem to hit as hard as other teams do, and that may very well be because of the lack of tackling in training camp. Or maybe its the lack of athleticism in our middle linebackers.
Maybe it's not so much that they tackle poorly
Maybe it’s more that when someone does miss a tackle, there isn’t anyone else in the vicinity to clean up. It’s one thing to miss a tackle if the rest of the team is swarming to the ball, but it seems like when the Cowboys miss a tackle, it’s off to the races.
by Baked Potato Soup on Dec 15, 2009 1:11 AM CST up reply actions
maybe i'm wrong
but i don’t think thats true either…I can’t think of many times thats happened this year with our defense. Jacobs did it to us, but that was seriously fluky.
Your opinions and mine differ
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I commend you for stating that your comments are indeed opinions – far too often comments here are presented as The Truth as opposed to opinions. However, my opinions differ strongly with yours – strong enough that I feel the need to share them in a rebuttal.
YOU: Also, Romo is awesome. Yes, some TDs have come when they meant little, but can’t the same be said of all TDs in a loss? Besides the Green Bay game, it seems every one of those “garbage drives” have started with enough time to have a comeback; I doubt that the opposing defense was playing that much worse knowing that their going against a big play team. If anything, I’d like to know why the offense executes so much better on their last drive than their first, or any for that matter. If you were to look at all their losses, you would notice that Dallas executes very well for most of their final drive. 3
ME: No, Tony Romo is not awesome. He is average. He has great natural ability but way below-average intangibles. After seven or eight seasons in the NFL, a definite pattern has emerged: He simply isn’t a winner. He doesn’t have what it takes in terms of commitment and leadership. He comes across as an immature punk off the field and during the game he sits on the sidelines pouting when things don’t go his way. It’s high time we as fans take this guy off the pedestal that we have put him on. The rest of the football world has seen Tony Romo for the average quarterback that he is. Why we as fans continue to pretend that he is something that he clearly is not is beyond me. As for Romo playing well on the late drives…..maybe if he had the mental fortitude to play a full 60 minutes then the team wouldn’t have to be in the desperate 4th quarter situation all the time.
YOU: Finally, I would like to make a pure opinionated assumption of dramatic proportions. I wouldn’t take a single quarterback over Tony, stay with me here… FOR THIS TEAM.
ME: There are at least ten NFL quarterbacks that I believe would give the Cowboys a much better chance to win this season than Tony Romo. Some of those 10+ are legitimately debatable. But if you would really take Tony Romo over Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and Tom Brady….well, in my opinion it calls into question your understanding of NFL football. Those three guys are so far beyond Tony Romo that the difference is, well, beyond debate. But again – they are your opinions and you are entitled to them.
You congratulate the poster on making clear that he's only expressing opinions,
then present what you say as fact, and finish by questioning his understanding of football. Nice job.
Um
perhaps you missed the entire preface to my opinions, that being:
However, my opinions differ strongly with yours – strong enough that I feel the need to share them in a rebuttal.
by Cowboy.Louie on Dec 15, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions
Yes you shared your opinion
but you seem to think everyone does.
The rest of the football world has seen Tony Romo for the average quarterback that he is.
Thank you for entitling me to my opinions, I appreciate it, but don’t think your opinion is the popular consensus. Notice I didn’t say mine is, that’s because you seem to think the majority of NFL fans believe Romo is a bad QB when really you have absolutely ZERO proof or evidence. Whereas I posted mostly opinion, you provided your opinion as fact due to popular consensus.
Thanks?...Maybe?
Look, telling when your opinions are being presented instead of merely facts is merely an example of critical thinking, I’m not going to take much credit when I think everyone should hold themselves to the same level during arguments. Also, while thanking me you presented a big logical fallacy in your post, post hoc ergo propter hoc (I don’t always think critically, but you seemed into it). Post hoc ergo propter hoc is a logical fallacy when the arguer implies that succession is the cause of any relation afterward. When you say Romo is the cause of all December collapses, while this may be opinion, really comes off unsubstantiated-something that just seems too easy to place all the blame on Romo. And my main reason for telling you all this is, why do you believe we have such a great team? Not saying we don’t, but you seem under the impression this is a great team, at least good enough to meet its goals with a different quarterback. In my opinion, you overestimated this football team two years ago when we went 13-3; in fact, most of us probably did.
BTW, what the hell are football? Thats the game with the home runs and broomsticks right?
Response
I don’t see where I posted that Romo is the cause of all December collapses. I do think he is a big part though.
Also, I don’t believe we have a really great team. I’m not sure how you jumped to that conclusion. In fact, I think that the talent level of our team is a bit overrated.
Regarding the 13-3 season, you bet I was sucked by that. At the time, I though we had elite level talent and a quarterback that was growing into a Franchise stud who would dominate for years. Oh how I was wrong on that one!
by Cowboy.Louie on Dec 15, 2009 11:00 AM CST up reply actions
Did you really just rubut my response
with my response? I may have exaggerated a bit but you still think Romo=collapse. If you think the talent on this team is overrated then why do you suspect Romo is a “big” problem of the collapses. Not only do you think the team is overrated, but a big part is still Romo’s fault?
Its funny how an average QB can still continuously put up numbers that are so comparable to the past NFL greats.
Dan Marino – 1983-1999 – 86.4 rating – 59.4 % – 0 Super bowls 8358 Pass Att.
Brett Favre – 1991-present – 86.4 rating – 61.9 % – 2 Super bowls 9713 P/A
Joe Montana – 1979-1994 – 92 rating – 62.7 % – 4 Super bowls 5391 P/A
Roger Staubach 1969-1979 – 83.4 rating – 57 % – 2 Super bowls 2958 P/A
Troy Aikman 1989-2000 81.6 rating 61.5% -3 Super bowls 4715 P/A
Tony Romo 2003-present 95.4 rating 63.2% – 0 Super bowls 1751 P/A
I'll attempt to clarify one last time
Let me attempt to clarify my position one final time. I believe that (1) this Cowboys team is a bit or moderately overrated; (2) Tony Romo is significantly overrated by fans of the Dallas Cowboys in general and specifically by posters on this blog; and (3) the annual late-season collapses are due in large part to (a) poor coaching/management and (b) a quarterback that frequently plays bad in December and also sets the tone for a collapse through his extremely poor leadership on and off the field (if you can call his behavior ledership).
From your posts, I gather you disagree since you believe Tony Romo is awesome and you would take him over any quarterback in the NFL. So we’ll agree to disagree.
I have no idea what you mean by Did you just rebut my response with my response so I cannot comment on that.
by Cowboy.Louie on Dec 15, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
Well on the last point
you rebutted me with my own answer. You said you never said Romo was responsible for the collapse while saying he is a big part of it. And yes we can agree to disagree, I’m not trying to strip you of your opinion, just trying to reason and understand them a bit more. I’m surely not trying to insult your intelligence or knowledge of the NFL like you have to me, and I more than respect your opinions. What I don’t like are your “reasons” behind your opinions and when you back them up with false logic/facts:
The rest of the football world has seen Tony Romo for the average quarterback that he is.
got it, and
thanks for being mature about it.
Well, at least we can both agree that it would be great if you turn out to be right and I’m wrong! I really miss Dallas Cowboys playoff football.
by Cowboy.Louie on Dec 15, 2009 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
Actually
The only thing related to the Cowboys that I hate is….. you!
However, since this is the season for peace on earth and goodwill toward man, I will do my best to forgive you for cluttering up this blog with your endless repetitive nonsense and name calling.
Merry Christmas Terry, and Happy New Year. (if you are not Christian, please replace Christmas with the festival/celebration of your choice)
by Cowboy.Louie on Dec 15, 2009 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
only speaking the truth Louie
Only idiots and haters think Romo is an average qb and I know you’re not an idiot. It’s ok you don’t like Romo though, Merry Christmas to you as well.
In Romo we Trust
I will pst te numbers again for those that cant see wher Romo stands at this point.
Dan Marino – 1983-1999 – 86.4 rating – 59.4 % – 0 Super bowls 8358 Pass Att.
Brett Favre – 1991-present – 86.4 rating – 61.9 % – 2 Super bowls 9713 P/A
Joe Montana – 1979-1994 – 92 rating – 62.7 % – 4 Super bowls 5391 P/A
Roger Staubach 1969-1979 – 83.4 rating – 57 % – 2 Super bowls 2958 P/A
Troy Aikman 1989-2000 81.6 rating 61.5% -3 Super bowls 4715 P/A
Tony Romo 2003-present 95.4 rating 63.2% – 0 Super bowls 1751 P/A
I'm not really sure what those numbers are supposed to show.
You have 4 different eras represented there, and QB rating is intended to correlate with other players at that time. That’s why 17 of the top 25 career passer rating leaders are currently playing. For example, Staubach’s rating would only put him as the 20th most efficient quarterback in the league for this season, but he was the most efficient quarterback in NFL history when he retired.
And quarterback, as a leadership position, is judged more for championships, postseason wins, and total wins than for individual play. That’s why Troy Aikman is a Hall of Famer, and Neil O’Donnell isn’t.
by Baked Potato Soup on Dec 15, 2009 7:25 PM CST up reply actions
That said, Romo is a good quarterback.
I think he’s better than average, and he has been in the top 8 every year that he has started, meaning the top 25%. I think he needs to get some playoff wins and/or consistently be in the top 5 rated passers to be great.
And by he needs to win, I would think that every idiot out there would know that that obviously means he needs to be the starting quarterback for a team that wins. So spare me with that apologist word play.
by Baked Potato Soup on Dec 15, 2009 7:28 PM CST up reply actions
I will give you that
But I was just trying to put rating in there because everyone seems to go by that. But I also just really wanted to show the % and pass attempts because that never really changes….right?
Romo is an exciting player; when he's on the field, I always feel like
good things can happen. Unfortunately, like you, I don’t feel so great about his line. Here’s praying that Jerry finally addresses this in the off season, since it’s too late to do much about it now. In the meantime, I hope the O line picks up their play, protect their QB better (he’s already had the crap sacked out of him this season, and there are still games to be played), and figure out how NOT to commit boneheaded penalty after boneheaded penalty.
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