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Around SBN: My First Fight: Diego Sanchez

And the Mutts Shall Lead Them

Something to chew on while I finish my piece on the assistant coaches:

The '90s Cowboys had pedigrees.  They were led by the Triplets, three show dogs with all the proper papers.  Consider:

  • Troy Aikman, 1st pick in '89;
  • Michael Irvin, 11th overall pick in '88;
  • Emmitt Smith, 17th overall pick in '90.

Jay Novacek was a no-name, plan-B, UFA originally with the Arizona Cardinals.  He was the exception.  The other supporting skill position guys also were high picks.  Alvin Harper was 12th overall pick in '91, and Daryl Johnston was a high 2nd rounder in '89.

Now, look at the current offensive triad.  They're the All-Pound All Stars:

Felix Jones' increased workload the last two weeks may be the start of a trend, and could blow up my low-rent, high-skilled position meme, but a continued push by Kevin Ogletree would give the Cowboys the surreal, yet real chance of starting playoff drive games with a quarterback and two receivers who nobody drafted.

Wooooof!

(Can anybody think of another team that is or has turned so many UFAs and late draftees into producers?  Patrick Crayton is a 7th, while Deon Anderson and John Phillips are 6th rounders.  Tashard Choice is, like Barber, a 4th rounder.)

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But I don’t really keep track of other teams drafts so, I’m probably not the best person to do that, but I do think its extraordinary that about 90% of all our offense production is from 2nd day draftee’s or street free agents

"We play to win the game" - Herm Edwards

by nicholas.rodriguez on Dec 23, 2009 12:22 AM CST reply actions  

Again

We should use the first 5 rounds of the draft for Oline and Defense and find all the rest of the offense in the 6th and 7th and off the street

"We play to win the game" - Herm Edwards

by nicholas.rodriguez on Dec 23, 2009 12:23 AM CST up reply actions  

we have zero luck drafting OL early thats why....stick to what works and sign FA's...

I wouldnt draft a OL any earlier that the 3rd round

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Dec 23, 2009 12:19 PM CST up reply actions  

You've made that statement so many times...

And it’s still one of the most ridiculous things.

So if say, a surefire lineman that everyone thinks should be slotted where he supposed to go falls to you in the first round, say Russell Okung you say “Oh well we have no luck drafting lineman so nope.”

Because you haven’t had “luck” in the past doesn’t mean you just stop trying.

You get who is rated the highest period, you don’t look back at past “luck”. Or most GM’s that knew anything about football wouldn’t.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Dec 23, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks

Don’t stop trying to draft linemen earlier, GET BETTER at drafting lineman.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Dec 23, 2009 1:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Bingo

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Dec 23, 2009 2:40 PM CST up reply actions  

signing FAs is definitely NOT the way to go

way too expensive, we need to start drafting good OLmen. Jerry is on record as saying so.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 23, 2009 1:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Thats the problem, we only draft them in the 3rd round or later.

That kid from USC doesnt count. He should have been discredited for medical reasons but BP over ruled and we got burnt.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Dec 23, 2009 2:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Jacob Rogers

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Dec 23, 2009 5:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Johnson started 3 years and Gurode started since and been to couple of pro bowls.

That isn’t bad luck, that’s the nature of drafting. Rogers was the kid from USC.
Martin and Free are an example of big school vs small school bias. Marten went to BC and Free went to a small school. Marten went in 3rd and Free went 4th.
Free and Gurode were the only 2 I would have drafted. The others were never impressive.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Dec 24, 2009 8:14 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

its pretty crazy

this offensive unit is pretty much one big underdog story. Romo is nothing short of a miracle – we spent 7 or so years searching for a qb to replace aikman, and of course its the undrafted guy who needs quincy carter to be surprisingly cut right before the season in order to stay on our roster. This is the kinda crap that makes you believe in a higher power. Add onto that Austin exploding the season after the jets nearly make him a second round offer…

by foyesboys on Dec 23, 2009 12:55 AM CST reply actions  

I do love this story.

Tony Romo, Miles Austin and Ogletree will be the heart of next year’s passing game.

That’s some lofty territory for three UFA’s on any team, let alone the reigning SB champ :)

Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.

by DalaiLuke on Dec 23, 2009 2:10 AM CST reply actions  

Nice post, Raf, but one that has also got me a little worried

No doubt the Cowboys organization has an excellent track record of developing low draft picks and UDFAs. Here’s a line-up (outside the O-Line) that we saw quite frequently in the KC game:

LWR – Hurd – (UDFA)
RWR – Austin – (UDFA)
SRWR – Crayton – (7th round)
TE – Witten – (3rd)
HB – Barber – (4th)
QB – Romo – (UDFA)

With the potential emergence of Ogletree and Phillips, we might at some point see a line-up where the highest draft level on offensive skill positions is a 4th rounder. Now everybody loves an underdog story, and I’m not knocking any of the players for their lowish draft positions, but I’ve got to wonder about three things:

1. With their success in developing these types of players, will the Cowboys organization grow complacent and believe they can continue pressing their ‘luck’ in the future?

2. If indeed the Cowboys have an eye for talent and developing it, how come some of our higher offensive draft picks in recent years (Fasano 2nd, Bryant 2nd, Carter 2nd) have had less than stellar careers in Dallas? And at what point will Bennett (2nd) finally have his breakout?

3. Felix Jones is the only offensive skill position player we’ve drafted in the last decade in the first round. I don’t know if this is good or bad, but it does make me wonder. And yeah, we traded a no. 1 for RW, but that’s a whole different story.

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2009 3:32 AM CST reply actions  

Martellus Bennett Is A Head Case

He can block but we may never see an offensie breakout; playing at a high level in the top tier of any sports is large part mental. Everyone has physical talent; it is the guys with the ability to use their brains and hearts that succeed; Bennett has yet to show me he is other than a clown and now he has a large bank account; I would trade him and grab another tight end.

by Iowacowboy on Dec 23, 2009 6:39 AM CST up reply actions  

Come on now

let’he not get crazy here. The kid is 22 years old and came from a college team that did not have a pro type offense and he is in his second year. Everyone doesn’t progress at the same pace in the NFL. BTW, aren’t you the one who wanted to replace Gurode because of his shotgun snaps? The guy’s snaps have been flawless this year and he is an experienced vet. Give Bennett a minute to mature, and he will be fine.

by jevans1729 on Dec 23, 2009 7:01 AM CST up reply actions  

totally agree... Bennett will be fine

Amazing how a physical ailment is suddenly translated into “clown” … and no “ability to use their brains and heart”

Posting at a high level is also, in large part, mental ;)

The facts are that Bennett is a tremendous asset to this offense, and it didn’t take 3 years to prove his worth. He’s an asset in run blocking, he can get open down-field, and he’s a monster mismatch for most defenses. Trade him? Based on WHAT?

Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.

by DalaiLuke on Dec 23, 2009 7:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Agreed

1. Look how long it took Vernon Davis to emerge.

2. He’s playing behind Witten. It’s hard to be a superstar when you only get a chance one or two timese per game (if that).

by Taoboy on Dec 23, 2009 8:04 AM CST up reply actions  

Bennett has incredible potential.

Why would you want to trade him after less than two seasons? Miles Austin has a similar story—he needed time to learn and develop but his potential was obvious. If you’re glad we didn’t cut Austin loose why wouldn’t you feel the same way about Bennett?

"Everybody wants something but nobody wants to pay the price" - Michael Irvin

by 24Hz on Dec 23, 2009 10:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Austin Was Not a Knucklehead

Bennett has demonstrated he lacks committment; he is a fun party guy is playing below par. Austin always demontrated committment. Big difference.

by Iowacowboy on Dec 23, 2009 6:16 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think I agree with you about Bennett's

off-field time as the cause of him not playing up to his potential yet. You know this how?

I will agree with you that Austin has always demonstrated commitment.

"Everybody wants something but nobody wants to pay the price" - Michael Irvin

by 24Hz on Dec 23, 2009 8:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Bennett Has Had Critical Mistakes . . .

since he got on the field. He proved his lack of committment during the reality show. He can’t take coaching. Sure we can wait another year or two; I am just saying that right now, I wouldn’t bet on his potential being realized.

by Iowacowboy on Dec 24, 2009 6:58 AM CST up reply actions  

And everyone said that he was...

committed and worked his ass off in this last offseason.

The coaches praised his work ethic.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Dec 24, 2009 7:32 AM CST up reply actions  

As always, it's odd how when a guy struggles

it’s a personality disorder. I know Bennett has done some silly self-promotion, but none of that says that he doesn’t try. My own guess is that maybe he learns more slowly than some players.

He blocks really well, so that says he’s giving a lot of effort. The TE postion is difficult, especially on this team. you have to understand the entire blcoking scheme, basically all the routes and WR positions, and added to that are the H back duties. My biggest regret is that he’s missed so much on-field time that he will be of limited value for the remainder of the season.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 24, 2009 7:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Not sure why I'm even bothering to reply, but ...

Are we really basing our concern on how a rookie looked before he played his first game? We’re talking about a rare talent that has, since hard-knocks, looked simply fantastic at times.

As dunk says, he blocks really well. But that’s not the half of it, as Bennett presents HUGE match-up problems and is arguably the best receiving TE on the roster.

Why all the hate for a contributing guy?

In the immortal TROLLING words: nonsense

Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.

by DalaiLuke on Dec 24, 2009 3:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Best Receiving TE on the Roster?

Have you lost your mind? What is Witten, then?

by Iowacowboy on Dec 24, 2009 7:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Witten's the most complete TE in the league, but ...

Bennett has shown down-field skills that ARGUABLY rival yes even Witten’s … I’m not the one calling for Bennett’s head; so no, I haven’t lost my mind. But thanks for asking.

Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.

by DalaiLuke on Dec 24, 2009 8:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Did You Notice Phillips

make that nice come back to Romo and take the pass up the sideline? He also made some nice blocks, including at least one out of the backfield. Sure Bennett blocks but he has not utilized his purported massive talent advantage catching the ball; instead he has had many critical drops.

by Iowacowboy on Dec 24, 2009 7:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Wasn't there an article on here just a couple weeks ago

About how Bennett turned down an opportunity to participate in a halftime shooting contest at a Mavs game (even though he would’ve given the prize to audience members), because he understood that it would bring negative attention about his commitment and focus? He’s definitely maturing, I don’t know where you get this ‘fun party guy’ from. Pacman he ain’t.

by Joon on Dec 26, 2009 12:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Bennett's Blocking is Good

But monster mismatch? Based on what? How many plays has he made based on this purported mismatch?

by Iowacowboy on Dec 23, 2009 6:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes, and Gurode is a Liability

His snaps are marginally better but wait until the chips are down; and don’t underestimate Gurode’s responsibility in the motion penalities. The point is Bennett, not me or my opinion on Gurode. Bennett is a knucklehead

by Iowacowboy on Dec 23, 2009 6:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Disagree on Gurode

He’s one of the top Centers in the game. Snaps have been improved, O-line penalties have gone down, there’s not much to complain about. Plus he’s a tough SOB.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Dec 23, 2009 9:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Gurode is good but

he does have a few problems that don’t show up on the stats sheets. For example you can see at least once or twice a game where Romo has to basically slap him upside the head to get him to snap the ball. Like the other guys, he brain cramps from time to time.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 24, 2009 7:00 AM CST up reply actions  

And The Breakdown in Pass Blocking

has some roots in Gurode. He is tough but we need to inject a legitimate backup and challenger into the equation. We blew the chance of a lifetime last year to snag a blue chip center in the draft and there were several available in the free agency pool – Birk from the Vikings was available, for example. With Romo getting into his prime, we better improve this line and fast to maximize the talent on offense.

by Iowacowboy on Dec 24, 2009 7:01 AM CST up reply actions  

There Were Three Top Centers in the Draft

And at least one free agent. I don’t think Dallas tried very hard to move up. They say they did but if they wanted to, they could have gotten into position. Dallas is happy with Gurode / Proctor.

by Iowacowboy on Dec 24, 2009 8:01 PM CST up reply actions  

You don't "think" they tried very hard?

Didn’t know the War room was located in Iowa.

They said they tried to trade up and then couldn’t but you have a “belief” based on NOTHING, nothing at all.

Classic.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Dec 26, 2009 12:07 AM CST up reply actions  

That so called blue chipper isn't doing anything on a poor team

Is he even broken the starting lineup?

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Dec 24, 2009 8:20 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I don't get the love for Unger. He never really impressed me. Ever.

I saw a dog today. Have you seen a dog? You probably have. How was school? Was it fun? Did you get a lot of homework? Huh? Do you have any friends? Do you have a best friend? Does he have a big coat, too?

by Aaron Novinger on Dec 24, 2009 9:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Totally agree with upgrading the backup Center

I want someone to beat out Proctor, hopefully a young player. I wonder if Bright has been learning to play the pivot since being signed to the PS. I thought I read they were giving him some snaps there during camp, but haven’t heard anything since.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Dec 24, 2009 11:53 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not sure you can read any trends into this

Phillips and The Ogletree happened because of John Garrett’s unique insights into the UVA program. Romo had a similar element of luck – Sean Payton’s alma mater and a scout happened to get a look at him.

I do find it interesting that offense is generally the better of the two units and yet all the high draft picks have gone into the defense. But I guess I can chalk that up to missing on a few and having to shore up the weaker unit, while adding skill poistions from late/non-draft pick ups.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 23, 2009 7:28 AM CST up reply actions  

Don't forget

Shanahan (also an Eastern Illinois product – QB?) also talked to Romo about signing with Denver, but the Bronco QB position was much more stable so Romo decided on Dallas.

With all the clammering about Shanahan here, it says something that he as well liked Romo.

Congratulations Bob Hayes
"I played for the world's greatest professional sports team in history. Once a Dallas Cowboy, always a Dallas Cowboy." - Bob Hayes
http://www.bloggingtheboys.com

by Raul Villaronga on Dec 23, 2009 9:36 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Shanahan knew the QB position for sure

he is still very high on Romo.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 23, 2009 10:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Interesting group

Mike Shanahan, Sean Peyton and Brad Childress – all known as "offensive geniuses – are all Eastern Illinois products…

Congratulations Bob Hayes
"I played for the world's greatest professional sports team in history. Once a Dallas Cowboy, always a Dallas Cowboy." - Bob Hayes
http://www.bloggingtheboys.com

by Raul Villaronga on Dec 23, 2009 1:18 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I sense a Michael Oher/alumni controversy thing brewing.

I saw a dog today. Have you seen a dog? You probably have. How was school? Was it fun? Did you get a lot of homework? Huh? Do you have any friends? Do you have a best friend? Does he have a big coat, too?

by Aaron Novinger on Dec 24, 2009 9:51 AM CST up reply actions  

A lotta high picks on the defense though ...

TNew – 1st
Jenkins – 1st
Ware – 1st
Spencer – 1st
Spears – 1st
Carpenter – 1st

by alanTdot. on Dec 23, 2009 4:18 AM CST reply actions  

Ohhhhh

So that’s where all our firsts went. Don’t forget Keith Brooking: picked number 12 overall in 98, baby.

by Dansonofdirm on Dec 23, 2009 4:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes

I think about that every time somebody blows through a Barbie tackle. I also think about it everytime Scandrick gets burned. Imagine T-New, Jenkins, and Cromartie in the secondary!

by Taoboy on Dec 23, 2009 8:05 AM CST up reply actions  

not sure

If you have Cromartie you draft Jenkins.

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
Twitter Account

by Wmillion on Dec 23, 2009 8:52 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Cromarie isn't looking so good these days...

He was all world at one point, but something has happened and looks slow..

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Dec 23, 2009 12:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Well look at it like this

we are hitting over 80% on first round draft picks.

by elharpo on Dec 24, 2009 4:59 PM CST up reply actions  

I was just about to say that.

Also, many of the backups are picks from the first 3 rounds.

Let’s not forget that 3/5 offensive linemen were actually brought in through FA; seems like a good example of 1st round picks not being spent on offensive linemen coming back to hurt you. It’s odd considering how valuable Flozell has been over his career that the Cowboys wouldn’t do it again for so long.

If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.

by GhettoBear04 on Dec 23, 2009 8:40 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I agree with your point, but

Flozell was actually taken with one of the top picks in the 2nd round (Gurode, too, and Larry Allen was a 2nd, also).

The last time the Cowboys used a 1st for an OL was in 1981 (OT Howard Richards).

"Everybody wants something but nobody wants to pay the price" - Michael Irvin

by 24Hz on Dec 23, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions  

That's amazing as amazing stat if true

Almost 30 years?

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Dec 23, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions  

huh?

That’s an amazing stat

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Dec 23, 2009 2:46 PM CST up reply actions  

yep.

This is where all the high picks went. The defense played great last week. Last week was the first time both sides of the ball played well.

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
Twitter Account

by Wmillion on Dec 23, 2009 8:50 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

OK. How about...

The Broncos of the nineties?

Bubby Brister UFA (I believe)
Terrell Davis 7th round pick
Shannon Sharpe UFA
Rod Smith UFA
Ed McCaffrey 7th round pick?

No wonder Shanahan wants the Dallas head coaching position!

by ScarletO on Dec 23, 2009 4:40 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

Fantastic find

Your posts are always of a very high standard. Commendations.

Upgrade to a BTB Platinum Account to view this signature.

by accidental innuendo on Dec 23, 2009 5:05 AM CST up reply actions  

wow, and you did that off the top of your head?

would’ve taken me hours to find that. I’ll be a little spoilsport: Brister was a 3rd round pick by the Steelers, Sharpe was a 7th rounder, McCaffrey a 3rd rounder. But your overall point stands and remains valid.

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2009 5:11 AM CST up reply actions  

O.Cool, you may want to send future research to Scarlet O for initial feedback

looks like it could save you HOURS!!!

Nice post Scarlet, but don’t forget it was Elway leading those troops

:)

Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.

by DalaiLuke on Dec 23, 2009 7:25 AM CST up reply actions  

Niiiice

Very nice, I think that is the closest comparison.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Dec 23, 2009 7:49 AM CST up reply actions  

And for sure

UDFA QBs who make it big are a really rare commodity.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 24, 2009 7:02 AM CST up reply actions  

davis

was a 6th rd pick (sorry to nitpick)

by Scoobay on Dec 23, 2009 9:06 AM CST up reply actions  

Yup, I was fully aware of this....on both sides of the ball.

I’ve wondered for years why our defense didn’t play better. They have been loaded with high pick players. Don’t forget thong was a firster, and Canty was supposed to be until he had injury and issue. I used to think how could we whiff so often in the first round, but we’re bucking the trend with Jenkins and Spencer playing well. We kind of took Ware because Merriman had issues. Ware is all-world baby.

On offense, look at who has excelled as an undrafted QB. There’s Delhomme, and then there’s uh, there’s Delhomme. Well anyway, the problem with these offensive gems we’ve dug out of the ground is that they take years to get on the field. Supposedly Romo was pretty darn good even as a rookie, but we were busy with the likes of Carter, Testicleverde, Bledsoe, and later Henson. Romo was swimming in a sea of whiffs, and came through it.

We sure are a paradox on draft day. And it seems every stinking year we come out of training camp with at least one undrafted gem. The trend continues. I can’t wait to get Ogletree out there running the entire route tree. Romo trusted that kid from the beginning of the season. BTW, I still say Hurd could do alot more than he’s been allowed to do. That kid Hurd is just a football player.

The tribulations of Winter...
90% of Americans say 'OH SHIT!' before going into the ditch on a slippery road.
The other 10% are from TEXAS and they say, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS!!!'

by White Wolf on Dec 23, 2009 5:53 AM CST reply actions  

What about Kurt Warner?

Was he an UFA or was he drafted and bombed and then fell into the Arena league?

by thepainster on Dec 23, 2009 6:40 AM CST up reply actions  

And Tom Brady was a sixth round pick

And Kurt Warner (future HOF) was was definitely undrafted.

by DatNguyenNguyenScenario on Dec 23, 2009 7:10 AM CST up reply actions  

Completely agree on Hurd

He’s not the fastest, but he has good hands and is just a hard-nosed player who will fight for yards.

by Joon on Dec 26, 2009 12:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Current Colts team

has a lot of low round and undrafted starters.

by bewareofdware on Dec 23, 2009 7:06 AM CST reply actions  

Well, aside from that one guy....

You know, Manning? He’s kind of a bust, though. Never lived up to the hype coming out of college.

No, I’m just not a biased, mouthbreathing fucking retard like many (maybe the majority) of Eagles fans. - yomjoseki - The honest Eagles fan!

by tkosmith on Dec 23, 2009 10:05 AM CST up reply actions  

Fail

Peyton = #1 overall
Wayne = first rounder
Clark = first rounder
Addai = first rounder

by JBell523 on Dec 23, 2009 2:12 PM CST up reply actions  

I think he meant on the O Line

Their all-world C, Jeff Saturday, was undrafted.

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by accidental innuendo on Dec 24, 2009 12:19 PM CST up reply actions  

They did have those 2 WR's come out of nowhere

Garcon and Collie; one is a late-rounder and the other (I think) is an UDFA.

by Joon on Dec 26, 2009 12:34 AM CST up reply actions  

You have to look at the reason for their undrafted status

Most undrafted FAs go undrafted because of physical limitations but not so with our 2 best offensive players. The only reason Romo and Austin were went undrafted was because they played for very small college programs even though they were men among boys at that level.

I guarantee if Romo and Austin would have attended a division 1-A school, they both would have easily been drafted. If you look at their draft grades heading into their respective drafts, they both received mid round grades but teams always shy away from players from smaller schools.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 23, 2009 7:23 AM CST reply actions  

But sometimes they go high

Usually there are a few players from unknown schools that go high. I think the Ravens took somebody from Rachel Nichols State in the 2nd or 3rd round this year. Our 3rd rounder didn’t even get a combine invite (unlike Romo and Austin).

by JimmyJohnson on Dec 23, 2009 7:29 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree

that some teams roll the dice on small school players, but it’s definitely not the norm, although I think with the increase in media exposure, there are a lot of good high school players who are willing to play for smaller schools. That wasn’t the case years ago.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 23, 2009 8:05 AM CST up reply actions  

That and

there were probably always players who could have played in the NFL who just never got the shot. Scouting is much more thorough now. Similar to the NBA that now scouts guys from foreign teams, etc.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 23, 2009 10:32 AM CST up reply actions  

Bill Walsh theory

the last 10-15 guys on the roster are generally replaceable – there are 3 guys on the street who could take their spot.

by I_miss_Switzer on Dec 23, 2009 10:38 AM CST up reply actions  

It's also a decrease in the number of scholarships, IIRC the limit now is 83 or so.

Enough for a USC to be 4 deep at every position, but still have to turn some good ones down, that then might choose a smaller school, rather than play at Florida or Texas or something (who might also be full).

That App State QB could be a good one, too, but since it’s “only” App St. he might go undrafted or just late rounds. I believe his name is Armanti Edwards. He should go before Tim Tebow, IMO. he’s the guy that was the primary reason that they beat Michigan at Michigan, and was the winner or nearly so every one of his years of the FCS D-I championship. You know, the one that you actually have to win throughout a playoffs for? I’d want him, if we didn’t have Romo and McGee already.

by mdlusk on Dec 24, 2009 1:13 AM CST up reply actions  

Too much attention spent on big name colleges

Just for kicks, I checked out TR, Miles, Carp, and Spencer. It’s interesting to note, regardless of whether they were drafted or not, they all graduated from college.

I think there’s a hidden gem in there when you consider how complex the game is on both sides of the ball. These players excel or are doing very well in their current position (Carp for instance) and they showed the perseverance to actually get their degrees.

I know players have to take some kind of test before entering the NFL, but how hard can it be when you hear some of them speak. None that I’ve mentioned here, but some big name players sound semi-illiterate.

Maybe it’s something to consider for scouts, look at how well they actually do in college. What their grades were, and did they graduate. Because I think it has a direct connection in how fast they can pick up the playbook as well recognize the complexity shown on the other side of the ball from them.

When in doubt, empty your magazine

by MudMarine on Dec 23, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Back in the day Gil, Tom and Tex

were great at finding the hidden players.

How bout dem Frogs!!!!

by DIRE WOLF on Dec 23, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Drew Pearson

UFA out of Tulsa goes on to become one of the most prolific WRs in Dallas Cowboys history.

Strange fun fact of the day – Pearson was the high school QB who succeeded … Joe Theismann.

Congratulations Bob Hayes
"I played for the world's greatest professional sports team in history. Once a Dallas Cowboy, always a Dallas Cowboy." - Bob Hayes
http://www.bloggingtheboys.com

by Raul Villaronga on Dec 23, 2009 8:22 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I think he's also one of the best WRs in league history as well

Got voted to the team of the 70s, pretty amazing accomplishment considering the great HOF WRs in that era.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 24, 2009 7:46 AM CST up reply actions  

Or New Orleans

Brees was the 32nd pick in the 2nd round. They have Colston, a 7th rounder and I don’t think any of their productive (productive = not Reggie Bush) running backs were drafted high.

by JimmyJohnson on Dec 23, 2009 7:24 AM CST reply actions  

Hindsight being 20-20

and myself living in Purdue country, I was really hoping that we traded our 2 second round picks in 2001 to trade up and draft Brees. Instead we drafted the immortal Quincy Carter and Tony Dixon. Granted it has worked out in the end with Romo, but we wasted them 2 picks.

by Dare2Dream on Dec 23, 2009 8:08 AM CST up reply actions  

Every Team Every Year has bad picks...

Every Round has it’s lemons … it’s not about batting 1.000 … it’s about having a good batting average and hitting your share of home runs.

That some of ours have come through UFA should be considered a feather in the scouting Dept’s cap… it’s as if the Cowboys had extra picks that year!

Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.

by DalaiLuke on Dec 23, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Brees was a free agent signing.

Though Colston would definitely make the team of “6th round or later All-Stars”.

If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.

by GhettoBear04 on Dec 23, 2009 8:44 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Don't Forget about...

Jay Ratliff. I do believe he was a 7th round pick and now is quite arguably one of the best NT in the game. The guy eats up space like a 300 pounder but has the quickness of a LB. IMO he is our 2nd best defensive player and I will be horribly upset if he doesn’t make it into the Pro Bowl.

by Dare2Dream on Dec 23, 2009 7:54 AM CST reply actions  

well said

7th rd picks are essentially undrafted FAs in terms of their evaluation grades.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 23, 2009 8:06 AM CST up reply actions  

pretty much a coin toss

by rounds 6 and 7 I think there are loads of guys who grade out the same. I bet each team signs 2-3 undrafted FAs who grade about the same as the 6/7 rounders.

by I_miss_Switzer on Dec 23, 2009 8:58 AM CST up reply actions  

sometimes even higher like Romo who had a 5th rd grade

and I know that some teams had Austin at a 3rd rd grade.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 23, 2009 9:06 AM CST up reply actions  

It's strange

if teams had Austin as a 3rd round grade, you think they would snag him in the 6th or whatever, but I know it happens.

I think often guys who are picked in the 5th could still be taken in the 7th, it’s just a matter of luck and circumstance. I’ve even seen picks in the 4th round where the draft types speculated that the player could have been obtained as a FA.

by I_miss_Switzer on Dec 23, 2009 10:41 AM CST up reply actions  

lots of small school players who have mid rd grades

go over looked in the draft because it’s simply a numbers game. Only around 250 players can get drafted out of the 500-600 that are eligible.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 23, 2009 11:01 AM CST up reply actions  

politics in the war room as well

the scouts may have someone in as a third rounder, but the guy with the final say just isn’t up for it.

Guys from decent sized schools get overlooked as well – Ogletree, D"Marco Farr,

by I_miss_Switzer on Dec 23, 2009 11:07 AM CST up reply actions  

And also it has alot to do with depth at a position in a draft and what other teams need.

It’s sort of like… for instance, Suh is the best player in next years draft.

Hands down, I don’t give a crap if Mel Kiper, Mayock, and any other draft guru tried to tell me otherwise(which they won’t). He is THE best player in the 2010 draft…

BUT it wouldn’t suprise me if the Rams took a QB.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Dec 23, 2009 11:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Off Topic

but I think the Rams take Suh. He is a best and will only make Chris Long that much better. With Spags being a Defensive coach, there is no way he passes on Suh. They will find a QB either in 2-3 round or try to get one in Free Agency – Trade (Brady Quinn, Kevin Kolb)

by Dare2Dream on Dec 23, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions  

That's what I would do...

but sometimes what you should do isn’t what they will do.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Dec 23, 2009 11:19 AM CST up reply actions  

You are correct

It happens all the time.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 23, 2009 12:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Everybody knew

You HAD to draft Reggie Bush. Boy, the Texans seem smart now.

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by accidental innuendo on Dec 24, 2009 2:25 PM CST up reply actions  

True...

although I would be shocked if Suh is a bust.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Dec 26, 2009 12:09 AM CST up reply actions  

Whatever team ends up with the 1st pick should take Suh

Best player in CFB this year hands down.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Dec 23, 2009 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Rams Have Drafted Tackle Many Times

Doubt they would want to take another interior defensive lineman at spot one in round one; bet they try to trade this pick

by Iowacowboy on Dec 23, 2009 6:22 PM CST up reply actions  

sure but

if someone available in 7 grades as a 3, I don’t care much about position, I take them. Only exceptions might be kicker, punter, QB.

by I_miss_Switzer on Dec 23, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions  

True.

I didn’t know that Austin had that high of grade, but it probably physical ability.

I think that perhaps while he had 3rd round upside, maybe he was such a project that teams didn’t want to use that high of a pick on him.

Then again Dallas did draft Stanback.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Dec 23, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions  

What is up with

Teams drafting a college QB to transition them into a WR. I don’t understand that and was against the Stanback pick the whole time. When was the last time this kind of project actually worked out to warrent a 3rd to 5th round pick?

by Dare2Dream on Dec 23, 2009 11:24 AM CST up reply actions  

Bert Emmanuel maybe

the ex Steeler now with the skins – Randel El

Stanback was a brutal reach though

by I_miss_Switzer on Dec 23, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah it was a bad bad pick...

I think Jerry has been doing alot better of a job the past few years, but that was a bad pick.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Dec 23, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions  

I forgot about Randel El

but he is even an iffy 2nd WR. on most squads he would be a 3rd WR if that. I haven’t even heard of Bert Emmanuel.

by Dare2Dream on Dec 23, 2009 11:27 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm not sure

It might have worked out very differently if he could have stayed healthy. He never got the on-field reps to develop the needed skills.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 23, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions  

agreed

don’t forget the all too important element of luck in whether a prospect reaches his potential. Injuries, coaching, how they gel with those around them, in austin’s case the injury to roy…

by foyesboys on Dec 24, 2009 1:17 AM CST up reply actions  

I was going to mention Ratliff

Also don’t forget about Bowen. He was UDFA. You could also argue for Columbo as he was a street free agent when we signed him. Though he was a 1st rounder by Chicago before he got hurt.

by Ridgelake on Dec 23, 2009 8:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Cool Post

I like that we have this rag tag bunch of misfits playing their hearts out every week.

Even so, it’s a bit unsettling that none of our high draft picks have worked out. Not sure that is something to be proud of from a talent evaluation stand point. I don’t want to be like the Raiders— none of the big name draft picks they acquire are worth a damn and guys like Justin Fargas, Bruce Gradkowski and Louis Murphy are doing all the work.

Not necessarily a recipe for success.

by Taoboy on Dec 23, 2009 8:08 AM CST reply actions  

None of our high draft picks have worked out?????

Ummm, Ware and Newman have worked out pretty well. Jenkins sure looks like he’s on the right track. Same can be said for Spencer. ONly Carpenter hasnt really matched his 1st round pedigree.

by Ridgelake on Dec 23, 2009 8:59 AM CST up reply actions  

Not Quite Raiders Territory

But what about

1. Bobby Carpenter
2. James Marten
3. Anthony Fasano
4. Jacob Rogers
5. Al Johnson
6. Quncy Carter
7. Tony Dixon
8. Dwayne Goodrich

(It gets even worse if I go into the late 90’s)

Looking back over the list— whole lotta whiffs on OLs. Sure wish a few of those had worked out. We could use some good ones right now.

by Taoboy on Dec 23, 2009 9:30 AM CST up reply actions  

no question we had our share of draft busts

but we also hit big time on some as well. Draft is a crap shoot, and like Parcells used to say, it’s a 50/50 proposition.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 23, 2009 9:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Agreed

The talent on our roster is fine. Can’t complain there. I think the defense in particular could really blossom. There is so much raw athleticism there.

If Spencer reaches his full potential (as it appear he might) and Scandrick improves, you are looking at a pretty imposing defense up and down the roster. Still concerned about Carpenter in nickel situations (especially given the Def struggles on 3rd down) but that could be remedied as J-Will develops.

by Taoboy on Dec 23, 2009 9:48 AM CST up reply actions  

we still need an elite safety

to make our defense truly great.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 23, 2009 10:00 AM CST up reply actions  

Indeed

Also a major culprit in 3rd down struggles.

by Taoboy on Dec 23, 2009 10:19 AM CST up reply actions  

Don't forget

Stephen Hodge who is on IR. He was a safety in college and is converting to ILB. He could be another option in nickel situations if he can stay on the field.

by jevans1729 on Dec 23, 2009 10:29 AM CST up reply actions  

The key is to average out in your favor over a few years

The pickings were lean in the late nineties and early aughts — a damn long time — which translated to about a decade of mediocrity. It is the ONLY way to get better and stay better.

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by accidental innuendo on Dec 24, 2009 2:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Wasnm't blocking his problem?

I seem to recall reading that Fasano wasn’t enough of a blocker to make the twp TE scheme work.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 23, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions  

Fasano

Still kinda chaps me that Parcells took him to Miami without Dallas getting anything in return.

I wonder if we could trade Barbie back to Parcells and get that first rounder back. He was a Parcells guy anyway. C’mon Tuna, stick with your boy!

by Taoboy on Dec 23, 2009 10:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Dallas Got the First Pick in the Sixth Round

And promplty blew this pick in crap . . . while the Redskins took a pretty good defensive back in the seventh round if I recall

by Iowacowboy on Dec 23, 2009 6:25 PM CST up reply actions  

If you're talking about C. Horton

He has regressed this year. However, point taken — there were better ways of spending that pick.

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by accidental innuendo on Dec 24, 2009 2:31 PM CST up reply actions  

if you look at the last 4 years

that list looks much much much better. Our scouting department has done a much better job.

You’re right on OL though. Thats always been a problem.

And PS, one first round bust in the last 5 or 6 or 7 years or so….thats actually a pretty big success.

by foyesboys on Dec 24, 2009 1:18 AM CST up reply actions  

Hmmm

Would you want Felix over Mendenhall?

Dunno.

Regardless, Chris Johnson, who went shortly afterward, from tiny East Carolina, was clearly the best of that bunch.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Dec 23, 2009 3:46 PM CST up reply actions  

During the draft I wanted Mendenhall

but today I’d rather have Felix.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 23, 2009 3:47 PM CST up reply actions  

The real question is...

will you still say that after they’ve been around a few years more?

Assuming both overcome their durability issues…

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Dec 23, 2009 3:50 PM CST up reply actions  

yes.

I think Felix is better than Mendenhall.

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
Twitter Account

by Wmillion on Dec 23, 2009 4:05 PM CST up reply actions  

definitely

I think Felix is a special back

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 23, 2009 4:11 PM CST up reply actions  

i'm not o sure now

anything on my part is conjecture, having not watched mendenhall play much. I will say I’m a little more hesitant to apply that “special” label to felix that terry does.

by foyesboys on Dec 24, 2009 1:19 AM CST up reply actions  

Felix Will Always Suffer

to some extent since he will be compared to that rocketship in Titenland; that sub 4.25 speed is unbelievable. Felix is rather pedestrian at 4.45

by Iowacowboy on Dec 24, 2009 7:04 AM CST up reply actions  

4.4 isn't pedestrian, it's flying

Can’t compare every back to CJ, that dude just has nonhuman speed.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 24, 2009 7:48 AM CST up reply actions  

the thing a lot of fans don't understand

is that there is a huge difference between running a 40 in shorts and running it in full pads. Some guys can run almost as fast like C.J., others can’t.

40 time usually isn’t true indicator of football speed.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 24, 2009 8:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Jerry Rice was the same way

It was almost as if he could faster in pads

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 24, 2009 10:54 AM CST up reply actions  

Interesting that Jimmy Johnson called Austin

a slow receiver. I know his 40 times wasn’t fast, but all I hear from the team is that he’s one of the fastest guys on the team…

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 24, 2009 9:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Jimmy must be getting clueless as a broadcaster

because 4.4 in the 40 is definitely not slow and Austin certainly has great football speed, it’s certainly evident to me when I watch him play.

Austin is very fast….Jimmy get a clue, we know you’re better than that.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 24, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions  

He did say he was explosive and strong

but not fast.

I dunno. He LOOKS fast to me.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 24, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions  

In Jimmy's defense, I suspect that he would prefer

“explosive” to “fast.” Although I agree that Austin is plenty fast, JJ may just be picking nits.

"Everybody wants something but nobody wants to pay the price" - Michael Irvin

by 24Hz on Dec 24, 2009 11:07 AM CST up reply actions  

Or an updated prescription perhaps.

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by accidental innuendo on Dec 24, 2009 2:33 PM CST up reply actions  

My Words Failed Me

I only meant Felix was pedestrian compared to Chris Johnson; plus, I think Felix might be faster than 4.45. He sure has instant acceleration

by Iowacowboy on Dec 24, 2009 8:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Newman and Spears?....not so good for where they were drafted and have started since day 1...

Both are not nearly worth where they were drafted….

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Dec 23, 2009 12:24 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree that

Spears probably is not worth where we drafted him. Spears has been playing much better though. He is very good against the run and gets some pressure on the QB. Spears would probably be much better in a 4-3 then he is in a 3-4.

by Dare2Dream on Dec 23, 2009 12:33 PM CST up reply actions  

All #1 picks aren,t all pro.

Spears is a very serviceable D Lineman and has played well. I don’t what this D would have done without Newman at CB. He was our best cover corner for years, now Jenkins has become the man

How bout dem Frogs!!!!

by DIRE WOLF on Dec 23, 2009 12:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Spears was the player that triggered the switch to 3-4

Without him we didn’t have beefy enough DE’s to do the deal. He and Canty were the keys to that switch. Of course, it helps when you get a DeMarcus Ware in the deal too, but remember, at that time DeMarcus had never played OLB before. He was a 4-3 DE in college. Anyway, 3-4 DE’s never get any glory. All they do is eat blocks and fall on RB’s.

The tribulations of Winter...
90% of Americans say 'OH SHIT!' before going into the ditch on a slippery road.
The other 10% are from TEXAS and they say, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS!!!'

by White Wolf on Dec 23, 2009 1:39 PM CST up reply actions  

+1

He was the key to allowing the conversion to the 3-4.

Didn’t turn out to be the player we were expecting, but still a solid run stopper.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Dec 23, 2009 4:04 PM CST up reply actions  

after the number of BUSTS that people see in the draft

why are we disgruntled about a very solid player?

is he flashy?

is he all-pro? no?

is he HOF material? not yet?

is he what we need at that position? yes.

It's not that I'm saying we're due a playoff win, but I didn't have my license to drive when we won our last one...

by bulldog jeeper on Dec 23, 2009 4:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Because we expected a bit more

Yes, he’s consistently solid as a run stopper, and he never misses any games. I’ve come to appreciate him more.

He’s far from a bust.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Dec 23, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions  

I think the appropriate grade would be

“met, not exceeded, expectations”

Nothing wrong with that. He was picked right around the spot where first rounders are more like second rounders, talent wise.

by I_miss_Switzer on Dec 23, 2009 4:26 PM CST up reply actions  

He also gets downgraded because of Ratliff

If the draft positions had been switched, we’d all be praising Spears.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Dec 23, 2009 4:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Lots of starts

he is probably an above average pick – like Kosier was an above average FA signing.

Nobody has beat him out. I think Hatcher is a bigger disappoinment – that guy just flatlined.

by I_miss_Switzer on Dec 23, 2009 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Spears has been a Greg Ellis

Never lived up to his college hype.

But he was probably no worse than Luis Castillo, who the Chargers took after us.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Dec 23, 2009 3:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Ellis had a much better career

than Spears ever will

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 23, 2009 3:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe, but Ellis went #8

Spears was in the 20’s…

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Dec 23, 2009 3:49 PM CST up reply actions  

regardless

Ellis didn’t have anymore college hype than Spears and if my memory serves me correctly, Spears’ and Ellis’ draft grades were pretty equal despite Ellis being drafted higher.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 23, 2009 4:13 PM CST up reply actions  

I alway heard that there were only 5 to 10 blue chippers in a given year

Year. I also heard that some where in the 20s 2nd round grades start getting picked. I think there is a big between 8 and 22.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Dec 24, 2009 9:10 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I alway heard that there were only 5 to 10 blue chippers in a given year

Year. I also heard that some where in the 20s 2nd round grades start getting picked. I think there is a big between 8 and 22.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Dec 24, 2009 9:10 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Stutter much squidlo???

this is like that streak Terry was on…

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 24, 2009 9:38 AM CST up reply actions  

rough crowd :)

Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.

by DalaiLuke on Dec 24, 2009 3:05 PM CST up reply actions  

rough crowd :)

Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.

by DalaiLuke on Dec 24, 2009 3:05 PM CST up reply actions  

rough crowd :)

Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.

by DalaiLuke on Dec 24, 2009 3:05 PM CST up reply actions  

You can say that again!

I saw a dog today. Have you seen a dog? You probably have. How was school? Was it fun? Did you get a lot of homework? Huh? Do you have any friends? Do you have a best friend? Does he have a big coat, too?

by Aaron Novinger on Dec 24, 2009 3:07 PM CST up reply actions  

rough crowd :)

Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.

by DalaiLuke on Dec 24, 2009 3:18 PM CST up reply actions  

rough crowd :)

Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.

by DalaiLuke on Dec 24, 2009 3:18 PM CST up reply actions  

rough crowd :)

Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.

by DalaiLuke on Dec 24, 2009 3:18 PM CST up reply actions  

They turn all yourposys

Redskins Burgundy. If you like that sort of thing…

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 24, 2009 4:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Damm iphone posting is a pain in the ass.

I hit send and it looks as if nothing happens, so I hit it again.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Dec 24, 2009 6:36 PM CST up reply actions  

and again ...

Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.

by DalaiLuke on Dec 24, 2009 8:53 PM CST up reply actions  

and again ...

Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.

by DalaiLuke on Dec 24, 2009 8:53 PM CST up reply actions  

and again ...

Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.

by DalaiLuke on Dec 24, 2009 8:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Ellis was a lone star on a ton of crappy teams

I always thought he was underappreciated. If he had some better talent around him, he would’ve been great.

by foyesboys on Dec 24, 2009 1:21 AM CST up reply actions  

And Despite His Moaning and Groaning

Ellis was a high character guy and think how Moss would have blown up the metroplex had he been imposed on those crappy teams.

by Iowacowboy on Dec 24, 2009 7:06 AM CST up reply actions  

Jerry Jones vouches for his character

I believe he said something like if he died, he would want Ellis to take care of his kids/grandkids because he’s the most high-character guy he knows.

by Joon on Dec 26, 2009 12:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Disagree

Why are the harshness for Newman? He is still playing at a very high level and has been a great CB for many years. He has never been a big interception guy but has always done a good job of holding down his position and I think he continues to do so. He is asked to cover the best receivers in the league and more often than not QBs don’t even throw in his direction. I’m not saying he has been absolutely perfect, but he is a definite success story well worth his draft position.

Spears is also a good player. Show me a 3-4 DE that you think is better? They are all pretty anonymous because of the realities of the position. Alot of teams in this league would pay him big bucks. Just look at how much Canty received, who is an inferior player.

by Taoboy on Dec 23, 2009 2:00 PM CST up reply actions  

He hates Newman...

While Newman has never been a top ten player, he was a damned good, really good corner for years. He’s had a rough year this year but he was well worth a first round pick.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Dec 23, 2009 2:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Newman was absolutely a top 10 cb for a year or two

He looks a little slower nowadays. But fans are too quick to rip on him. He doesn’t get his head turned around to look for the ball, i know, but the guy holds his oppoenent to usually at most 4 catches a game…..hes good.

by foyesboys on Dec 24, 2009 1:22 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

He was definitly a top 10 corner

probably a top 5 corner, but I don’t know if he’s been worth a top 10 selection and I like newman.

I’m suprised his age didn’t drop him a little bit.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Dec 24, 2009 7:36 AM CST up reply actions  

and the thing is..

he was a track star – and for a cb, thats putting a toll on the one area of your body tht you’ll need the most.

I’m still ok with the newman pick. My guess is if he doesn’t get hurt for like 3 straight years, we’re looking at it as a huge success as opposed to just a solid value pick at that spot.

by foyesboys on Dec 24, 2009 12:04 PM CST up reply actions  

3-4 DEs who are better

In no order…Richard Seymour, Aaron Smith, Ty Warren, Shaun Ellis, Haloti Ngata, Luis Castillo, hell, with the way he is playing, Cullen Jenkins, those guys are all better than Spears. Hell, I think Igor is better. Spears certainly hasn’t lived up to his draft grade or status, as he was considered an elite defensive lineman prospect. To this day I am mad we passed on Castillo for Spears. Also, someone like Logan Mankins, who I believe was high on the Dallas draft board that year, would have been a far better choice.

by Zach22 on Dec 23, 2009 2:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Eh

Some of these I agree with but not all. A couple of these guys have had injury problems.

Anyway, if you actually compare stats Castillo really hasn’t been much better. Hey may be good for a couple extra sacks per year but not much more.

You gotta be happy with a guy like Spears. He is a stalwart of our DE and has been a starter for years. Given the high number of flame outs in the first round, i’ll take a dependable player like Spears any day.

by Taoboy on Dec 23, 2009 2:32 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah

But being that it is Spears contract year this year, it is very unlikely we will resign him, as there is a very good chance we can find someone who can fill his role in the draft this year. If Spears was worth the first round pick, we would instantly resign him. After all this time in the league, it would be hard to justify giving Spears anything higher than a mid level grade.

by Zach22 on Dec 24, 2009 9:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Where he was picked has little to do with resigning him. Its the cost.

If we can get him for the right price, get him. Then we can spend more picks on safeties and OL, LBs, NT, and possibly a WR.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Dec 29, 2009 5:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Actually,

Spears was considered a “boom or bust” type of player by many draftniks. Castillo, if you remember, had admitted to steroid use and wrote a letter to the NFL prior to the draft. He’s lucky he still got picked in the first round. Spears is not the best penetrator but he is very good in the run game. He is just not elite and that happens in every draft. Sometimes #1s are just good enough to do their job.

by jevans1729 on Dec 23, 2009 2:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep...

and honestly he wasn’t a boom or bust. he was just a solid player.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Dec 23, 2009 2:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I haven't look at that draft class,

but I would guess that we could have done a lot worse.

How bout dem Frogs!!!!

by DIRE WOLF on Dec 23, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions  

I think you are right...

but hindsight is 20/20.

Spears has been solid, not great but solid.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Dec 23, 2009 2:41 PM CST up reply actions  

2 guys who have started just about every game they have been here for 5+ years.

Give me a break. Yet you have the balls to defend Barbi at every turn.
3-4 DEs dont grow on trees. Take a look around the college landscape and you will notice DEs in the 250-260 range.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Dec 23, 2009 3:05 PM CST up reply actions  

+1

He is such a damn Ohio State homer it isn’t even funny.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Dec 23, 2009 3:27 PM CST up reply actions  

+1

Spears more so than Newman . . . TNew is underappreciated although I recognize he has not been All Pro shut down

by Iowacowboy on Dec 24, 2009 7:05 AM CST up reply actions  

I always look back (which is somewhat unfair) to see who they passed on...

Ware was definitely a better pcik than Merriman.

Newman is probably a push against Marcus Trufant.

Don’t get me started on Barbie.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Dec 23, 2009 3:44 PM CST up reply actions  

McNeill is a FA this year and playing much better than last year

the Chargers are full of FA’s

McNeill, Vincent Jackson, Merriman, Malcolm Floyd, and more on defense!

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Dec 23, 2009 3:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes he is...

It seems like he is open on every deep ball, and even when he is covered he can go up and get.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Dec 23, 2009 5:09 PM CST up reply actions  

he isn't open that often

but he’s like Moss and Fitzy in that when the ball is up for grabs, he’s coming down with it, amazing ball skills like those guys.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 24, 2009 7:51 AM CST up reply actions  

wow

They are screwed. The owners better be willing to pony up money, cause you can bet there are a lot of teams willing to pay a high price for those guys.

by foyesboys on Dec 24, 2009 1:24 AM CST up reply actions  

I think it is fairly

safe to say the Cowboys coaching/scouting staff deserve an enormous amount of credit for finding and developing these players. Player development is often times overlooked when coaches are evaluated and is an absolute essential in the era of free agency and large contracts. Landry won two SBs and had the luxury of a 12 round draft and no free agency. Jimmy Johnson also did not have to deal with FA as he left as soon as it was implemented.

I think when some are calling for Wade’s head depending on how the Cowboys finish this year, it would be wise to consider this are during their evaluation. Wade and his staff (along with Parcells to some extent) deserve an enormous amount of credit in this area. It is also safe to say that the Cowboys would not be as good as they are without the development of these players.

by jevans1729 on Dec 23, 2009 8:27 AM CST reply actions  

I agree

but you won’t get many who understand this point. FA and salary cap has changed the entire proposition and comparing eras is virtually impossible.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 23, 2009 10:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Brooking and Olshansky are both Wade's guys—

gotta give him some credit for solid players who also were a lot cheaper than the alternatives.

"Everybody wants something but nobody wants to pay the price" - Michael Irvin

by 24Hz on Dec 23, 2009 11:07 AM CST up reply actions  

+1

its no coincidence imo that once wade got to pick a few guys, the defense has performed better.

by foyesboys on Dec 24, 2009 1:25 AM CST up reply actions  

You are absolutely correct

that the proposition has changed and if that is true, then the expectations must be adjusted to fit the times also. Wade is saddled with the “winning tradition” of the Cowboys and is expected to do it in even faster time than those who set the original bar. The man is coaching a winning team and is 31-15 as of this writing. Yet, all anyone hears is he hasn’t won a playoff game which seems to be the only criteria and I think that is wrong. Fans are entitled to a winning, competive, exciting team. But that is where the entitlement ends.

by jevans1729 on Dec 23, 2009 3:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Radical thoughts

but true

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 24, 2009 7:08 AM CST up reply actions  

Dean Smith didn't win a title until his 15th year... yet any coach he played against can attest to his value

Grizz might not be old enough to remember this story: But during last-second time out against GTech, Dean huddled his players and drew up THE PLAY GT WAS GOING TO RUN! The Tar Heels had great talent, and great coaches, but Dean will tell you it also takes a bit of luck.

Wade will be fine if people would just get off his back. Actually, I don’t mind the media on him, just get that monkey off!

Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.

by DalaiLuke on Dec 24, 2009 3:09 PM CST up reply actions  

why is Romo still holding?

http://dcfanatic.thedallascowboyshow.com/2009/12/23/why-is-romo-still-holding-on-kicks/
Time for mcbriar to het his job back.

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
Twitter Account

by Wmillion on Dec 23, 2009 8:47 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

wade was asked that yesterday

and he sayeth Romo is the best holder we have, so what with new kicker, he wants every advantage going his way, therfore Romo is the holder; no plans for anyone else to hold through rest of season, it sounds like

by freightgod on Dec 23, 2009 9:08 AM CST up reply actions  

mcbriar

I would prefer to switch back to mcbriar, but winning comes first.

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
Twitter Account

by Wmillion on Dec 23, 2009 9:22 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

They did have McBriar holding for Squeezem at times

during the work out, but they don’t want to shake his confidence this early in the process.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 23, 2009 10:38 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm fine with Romo holding

I think critics make too much of the mishap in SEA. Of the hundred or so holds he’s executed, that was the only one he had trouble with (and I still blame the slicked up ball for that)

I get more nervous when McB holds.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Dec 23, 2009 4:10 PM CST up reply actions  

i was more nervous w/ BJohnson holding

what if he actually missed the hold? does he actually have the arm strength to throw it past the line of scrimmage – much less for a first down?

It's not that I'm saying we're due a playoff win, but I didn't have my license to drive when we won our last one...

by bulldog jeeper on Dec 23, 2009 4:16 PM CST up reply actions  

LOL

Garo Yepremian had a better arm.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Dec 23, 2009 4:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Why does everyone get in a hissy regarding Romo holding?

I think there is a very small chance of him getting hurt, the most likely being a jammed finger. It has the potential to be a tremendous upside should they fake a field goal and Romo throws a pass. We are essentially in the playoffs right now boys, let’s take advantage of every edge we can get!

by thepainster on Dec 23, 2009 10:47 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree

I look at it like he’s the best holder we have so he should be holding and like you said, there is always the possibility of a fake.

Holders chance of getting hurt are about the same as their chance of getting struck by lightning, slim to none.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 23, 2009 11:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Same way

he is our best QB even though he has thrown picks and lost fumbles.

Nobody is perfect.

Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.

by OskieOskie on Dec 23, 2009 11:10 AM CST up reply actions  

holders don't get the same latitude

holders and snappers have to be perfect or someone else gets their job

by I_miss_Switzer on Dec 23, 2009 11:17 AM CST up reply actions  

I disagree

they only have to be perfect 99.99% of the time.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 23, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions  

+1

Sea was a fluke and even then he made every effort he could to make a play running. If the kicker (I forget who was kicking for us then) had just fallen down in front of the safety, Romo makes the TD and is a playoff hero.

When in doubt, empty your magazine

by MudMarine on Dec 24, 2009 9:18 AM CST up reply actions  

Battlestar Grammatica!

You'll never get in a traffic jam,while going the extra mile. -Roger staubach

by TrueBlue24 on Dec 26, 2009 2:54 PM CST up reply actions  

The football that was used

on that kick was choosen by the home team (Seattle). That football had not been worked over and the rainy conditions caused it to be very slick. The rules were actually changed that offseason to allow Kickers to work 7 balls (i think) during the pregame. These balls are now controlled by the officals.

by Dare2Dream on Dec 23, 2009 11:13 AM CST up reply actions  

that could have happened to anyone

it’s just like if a baseball team’s best hitter strikes out in a crucial at bat, doesn’t mean he’s not the best hitter anymore.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 23, 2009 1:29 PM CST up reply actions  

anything could happen to anyone

it happened to him, on a chip shot, at a critical point

Baseball players strike out regularly. Comparing that to fumbling a snap is ludicrous.

by I_miss_Switzer on Dec 23, 2009 1:32 PM CST up reply actions  

A better example would be

the star pitcher hitting into a double play and ending the game for a loss. It’s not his primary job abd if he does it really well, it’s a bonus. What counted was that his pitching got you to the bottom of the ninth.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 24, 2009 7:11 AM CST up reply actions  

not the same

you don’t expect the pitcher to get a hit.

You expect your holder to not screw up. His quarterbacking has nothing to do with his holding

by I_miss_Switzer on Dec 24, 2009 10:29 AM CST up reply actions  

EXACTLY!! BINGO!!!!

He was brought onto the team, groomed and paid to play QB. That he is asked to be the holder because he’s better than the other options is no reflection of him as anything but a holder who focuses on an entirely different position (and OBTW the most difficult and important position on the team) with every working hour. It’s like criticizing Ware for missing a ST tackle when he’s dominating the other team’s LT.

If Romo bobbles a snap because he is putting his effort and focus into being a QB, I am down with that. Completely. Whether they should accept a lesser holder (their opinion, not mine) to relieve Romo of the duty is unimportant to me.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 24, 2009 10:41 AM CST up reply actions  

My point is

that his job as a holder is to hold. If he screws that up, that makes him a bad holder. His good QBing doesn’t give him an excuse to screw up as a holder, or vice versa.

If anyone misses a ST tackle it is a screwup, no matter how well they do in other phases of the game. The ST coach isn’t going to say “you screwed up there and cost us a TD, but because you got a sack everything is fine”.

I don’t mind Romo holding, I just don’t get how he is considered our best when he already failed terribly under live fire, with all the marbles on the table.

In general, I think your holder has to be a spare part guy so they can put in the practice time. Backup QB or P makes the most sense for this reason. I find it bizarre that Kitna has never held.

by I_miss_Switzer on Dec 24, 2009 12:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Romo was the backup for 3 1/2 seasons

He perfected his holding skills then. Wade said his is the best on the team I take him at his word.

He has had one bad hold his entire career. In that instance it was believed that Seattle replaced the normal ball with a brand new out of box ball that was very slick. This is believed to have contributed to the bobbled hold. The league changed the rule the next season regarding kicking balls because of this particular incident.

I trust in Wade that Romo is the best. I think the chances of injury are remote, It brings the option of a fake field goal more into play.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. GO COWBOYS!

by thepainster on Dec 24, 2009 2:07 PM CST up reply actions  

If he screwed it up a lot, sure

once? That’s a standard no one else has to live up to. And I don’t know that he “failed terribly”. He couldn’t handle a snap once in one game and never again.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 24, 2009 4:43 PM CST up reply actions  

And of course it's not the same

it’s an anlogy only.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 24, 2009 10:41 AM CST up reply actions  

Are you kidding??

If Folk and Squuzem can’t hit a 20 yard field goal, they might miss the ball entirely! Bang! There goes the season!

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 23, 2009 12:52 PM CST up reply actions  

LOL

There is also the chance Romo could freak out and pull a Lucy too………

by thepainster on Dec 23, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions  

If he lets one slip on a key kick it could set him back

psychologically for a long time.

Some here will laugh at that, but again, it’s a no-win.
Advantage? Is he really that much better than McBriar? He did it all year and none of us noticed anything.

Disadvantage-Injury, although slight- and also a slight possibility, but I’m tellin’ you, if he bobbles one it’ll never go away! Why chance it?

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Dec 23, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions  

thats the major worry

and I think its legitimate. Not that I don’t think Romo ha the “testicular fortitude” to voercome it – hes showed time and time again that when people doubt him, he’ll work his hardest to improve and come back stronger.

And really, theres just no real good reason for having your qb concentrate on something other than being the qb for ~4 plays a game.

by foyesboys on Dec 24, 2009 1:27 AM CST up reply actions  

So that's what we are worrying about now?

If Romo bobbles another snap in a big game it will mentally scar him forever? Guys with all due respect, I think we are getting into a little too much analysis territory. Romo is one of the best all around athletes on the team. Football, Basketball, Golf and I am sure quite a few other endevors. I think he can overcome another bobbled snap. Heck this time he may score on the play!

by thepainster on Dec 24, 2009 5:54 AM CST up reply actions  

+1

Fans forget how amazing of an athlete Romo is, the dude excels at pretty much every sport there is, it’s no wonder he’s the best holder on the team, as his hand/eye coordination is outstanding.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 24, 2009 8:02 AM CST up reply actions  

Unless some fake FG plays are installed utilising Romo's skills, there is no point to his holding

It is now abundantly clear that the problem with Folk was not the hold, but that he became a headcase. If the Cowboys are going to run trick plays out of the FG formation with Romo that is great. IF not, what is the point?

Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey

by Seanrude on Dec 24, 2009 8:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Because he is the best holder on the team according to Wade Phillips.

Suisam apparently likes the ball placed a little differently than Folk did. Romo held for Suisam when he was on the team before. So Wade is trying to eliminate another variable by letting Romo resume the holding duites rather than turn it back to McBriar.

I am sure they have a fake field goal play, every team does. With Romo back there the other team also has to be aware of the fake and might cause them to limit their rush.

Bottom line is overall Tony holding has a lot more upside than downside. This is a no brainer guys.

by thepainster on Dec 24, 2009 8:32 AM CST up reply actions  

seanrude, irregardless what Folk's kicking issue's were

a hold for a kicker is extremely important, the ball has to be placed down the same exact way every time. Some guys are better at it than others, it’s much more important than you’re giving it credit for.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 24, 2009 8:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Fingerpointer

We don’t need or want a guy who points fingers at others while ignoring his own issues. No concept of esprit de corps. Good riddance.

by I_miss_Switzer on Dec 25, 2009 10:18 AM CST up reply actions  

I haven't looked it up, but just off the top of my head..

It seems most holders are the 2nd QB or the punter. I prefer the QB option because it does give you options, real options for tricks (ROFL, let’s review Washington’s Hunter Smith this past Mon ;) ). How much better might that have been if Hunter was a QB? LOL (again, I know), anything else would have been better

When in doubt, empty your magazine

by MudMarine on Dec 24, 2009 9:22 AM CST up reply actions  

the swinging gate is a hack-play

but a good hack-play if you know how to run it.

the worst part of that play was that they didn’t even run the hack play correctly…

It's not that I'm saying we're due a playoff win, but I didn't have my license to drive when we won our last one...

by bulldog jeeper on Dec 24, 2009 9:25 AM CST up reply actions  

primary receiver in weak side flat

secondary receiver catches the pass BEHIND the line on the strong side

the back (kicker) can run the option w/ the QB (holder)

It's not that I'm saying we're due a playoff win, but I didn't have my license to drive when we won our last one...

by bulldog jeeper on Dec 24, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions  

Plus you don't run it after

the other team calls a time out to discuss it. Duh!

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 24, 2009 9:40 AM CST up reply actions  

It's only a guess but

after all the passes he’s thrown on the national stage, he’s not going to judge himself or his professional success on being a FG holder….

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 24, 2009 7:14 AM CST up reply actions  

It doesn't seem to be at the forefront of his thoughts.

Did you see Romo in the Saints game start to run off the field after 3rd down only to have to remind himself that he needed stay on to hold?

"Everybody wants something but nobody wants to pay the price" - Michael Irvin

by 24Hz on Dec 24, 2009 9:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Right, as it should be

holding is a side duty, like the HC doing pressers after the game. It’s great if he’s impressive in front of a camera, but it is really unimportant to being a good or bad HC. I don’t want Romo thinking about being a holder except in the moment.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 24, 2009 10:44 AM CST up reply actions  

Good points all, but still, common sense says your starting QB is not your holder.

Anyone remember that ever happening before?

Still no positives on why he should be doing it.

Now, picture this: Key game, good drive, but Romo gets smacked and sacked-a big hit, on 3rd down.

Now, they’re going for the field goal-you want Romo holding if he’s woozy?
Right-you don’t. So now they send out McBriar who hasn’t done it in weeks!
Missed FG.

Again, the possible downside is a small possibility, but w/huge potential. And there’s no upside, McBriar handled every snap this year.

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Dec 24, 2009 2:15 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not in favor of it, but

I understand it. They are taking some risk until Squeezem’s time with the team is done. Too late in the season to build the holder-kicker bond.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 24, 2009 4:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Too late is correct

maybe if they had made the move a few weeks ago on Folk. It seemed like he was an obvious lost cause.

by I_miss_Switzer on Dec 24, 2009 5:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Actually, since they just got Suisham, that doesn't really hold

He could have had just as much time this year w/ McBriar.

I don’t know about any “bond” these guys have from, what, 3 years ago?
Sounds like a stretch to me!

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Dec 24, 2009 5:32 PM CST up reply actions  

What they said was

Romo is the nteer holder and he has held for Squeezem beofre, so it removes one variable in successful FG attempts. Makes sense to me.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 26, 2009 11:22 AM CST up reply actions  

I see no reason to celebrate...

….futility in the draft.

That said I think JJ and company have done a good job in collecting talent. I don’t know of another team that has as much talent, which is the biggest reason that they come across as the leagues biggest disapointment the last few years.

by Cash_BSR on Dec 23, 2009 9:39 AM CST reply actions  

I don't think it is celebrating futility,

just stating that there has been alot of hiddeng gems that have contributed to the team.

There has been some good high rounders as well.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Dec 23, 2009 10:23 AM CST up reply actions  

I think "futility in the draft" is rather harsh

The team has had success in certain areas. Cornerback, and linebacker have been solid in the Parcells/Ciskowski years. Yeah, there’s always Bobby Carpenter, but you can counter that with Ware, Spencer and James. The kid Butler shows some upside. I think Jason Williams will impress people next year once he gets to challenge for a starting spot.

The obvious downfall has been the inability to draft offensive linemen. Parcells/Ireland took NINE guys and only Free has stuck.

That failure has sent them back to drafting OL again and again. And in re-scratching the itch, they keep deferring other positions. We’ve been screaming for years that they need a safety, and I know they’ve targeted them, but when have they ever drafted one high? Since Parcells took over in ’03, Mike Hamlin, in the 5th, is the highest Dallas has taken a player from what is now an impact position.

Same at wideout. The Williams trade was the first time Dallas invested high on a WR since Antonio Bryant was snatched on the first day in ’02.

Dallas doesn’t draft OL in the 1st, but they spent a lot of 2nds on them. Adams, Gurode, Al Johnson, Solomon Page, Jacob Rogers, all 2nds. I was told that when Dallas was debating Rogers, some other names debated included Jake Grove, who has become a good C for the Raiders and Dolphins, Madeau WIlliams, who played a solid S for the Bengals for years, and Matt Schaub. Think of what any of them would have meant to the team’s overall talent level.

They were all passed over because Bill Parcells was adamant that the O-line HAD to be fixed.

So I’ll agree with you on a qualified basis. Big Bill completely lost his o-lineman eye, and that has had a snowball effect. I think it’s also a credit to the organization that they’ve pulled so much talent out of the late rounds and UFAs to overcome that.

by Rafael Vela on Dec 23, 2009 10:25 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree that "futility in the draft" is harsh.

Every team has a bunch of draft and FA misses. But you have to give the Cowboys (and, yes, Jerry Jones) credit for enthusiastically exploring all player acquisition options.

The OL situation is very interesting. Was it that Parcells lost his eye for OL talent, or is it just the percentages? Did his misses occur because he was tryiing to force the issue, as you mentioned? Those misses certainly have hamstringed the organization. But even shotgun approaches don’t always work out—remember Campo’s approach to CB one year?

So there has to be a little luck to go along with extensive evaluation. And to play the percentages, we really should be taking an OT in the 1st round. He may turn out to be a bust, but there’s a much better chance a 1st round OT works out than a 3rd or 4th round OT.

Top notch OG’s can be taken in the 2nd, not the 1st.

"Everybody wants something but nobody wants to pay the price" - Michael Irvin

by 24Hz on Dec 23, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions  

Some good points here

Luck plays a role. That role will increase now with so many teams playing the spread, it’s going to be harder and harder to judge which players will make the transition to the NFL game. The carpet bombing problem is real too – you miss and wait, then you have to try to hit pay dirt all in one draft. If you miss again, it’s back to the FA feed trough which saps your cap space and you STILL make mistakes (Rivera, Fabini),

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 23, 2009 12:55 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't know Dunkman?

Some of Parcells draft picks as well as his F/A pickups were like he owed somebody money,Out of all those OLinemen,KR/PR all we have to show for it is McQuistan/Crayton and Watkins and Watkins has yet to return anything on STeams.

by psychodad on Dec 24, 2009 1:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Watkins Sucks As Safety

But he has excelled this year as a defender on the return game; excepting that one run for a TD in second Giants game

by Iowacowboy on Dec 24, 2009 7:08 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree

although it’s hard to know which picks were Jerry-influenced and which were Tuna-based. My pet theory is that Parcells was looking for players that fit his mold, and that style of play doesn’t translate as well today.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 24, 2009 7:15 AM CST up reply actions  

From everything I've heard about Parcells...

I don’t think he really gets influenced that much. He pretty much does what he wants.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Dec 24, 2009 7:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Or else he stomps his feet.

I saw a dog today. Have you seen a dog? You probably have. How was school? Was it fun? Did you get a lot of homework? Huh? Do you have any friends? Do you have a best friend? Does he have a big coat, too?

by Aaron Novinger on Dec 24, 2009 9:55 AM CST up reply actions  

This has nothing to do with the article really...

but can the comparisons to Marshall Faulk and Tony Dorsett with Felix Jones be put to rest for now?

I’m a HUGE Felix fan, but the expectations before the first of the season were borderline ridiculous.

Hopefully in a year or so he can become that but it was just way too much.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Dec 23, 2009 10:34 AM CST reply actions  

Agreed

I think he would work best in his current role, but I’d prefer him to get a few more touches. 10+ every game should be his workload. I say 10+ based on the assumption if he gets it 10 times, at least one is going to be a BIG play. lol

I think an ideal game would have Barber getting 15-20, Felix getting 10-12, and Choice getting 5-10. Oh, and that goes along with a 20-25 350 yard 3 TD performance from my boy Romo.

No, I’m just not a biased, mouthbreathing fucking retard like many (maybe the majority) of Eagles fans. - yomjoseki - The honest Eagles fan!

by tkosmith on Dec 23, 2009 11:34 AM CST up reply actions  

This just goes to show us that the 'NFL Draft' isn't as scientific as some would like us to believe. In the end it's a

crap shoot, with some teams being better or luckier at the draft game than others. I love it when guys like Ogletree show up big time. He looks like Drew Pearson to me so far. I know he won’t get much playing time right now, because of other high priced ‘investments’ in his way, but talent will win out eventually, either in Dallas or elsewhere. Yes, a few guys with top pedigrees are needed on any team (Triplets), but throw in a few guys are are just plain willing. We have a bunch of them right now.

Family, Friends, Cowboys, Beer & BBQ. Life is good!

by CowboyMan on Dec 23, 2009 10:48 AM CST reply actions  

What this really shows you is

the amount of talent that is in the Division 2A and 3A schools. I bet there are a hundred Tony Romo’s and Miles Austin’s out there that never even get their shot in the nfl. I know most squads have scouts checking all of the nooks and crannys, but there are those players that slip through the cracks.

by Dare2Dream on Dec 23, 2009 11:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Alot of it is in big part luck.

Quincy Carter doesn’t get busted for pot and Romo probably is cut.

Strange story but true.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Dec 23, 2009 11:02 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't know if this is true

I’ve heard that Romo was doing magical things in practice from day one. Yeah, they had Carter, Vinnie and Henson in front of him, but remember, they dumped Quincy immediately. Didn’t blink about it. Made Vinnie the starter at the opening of camp. Carter filed a grievance or considered filing one because the team was so unceremonious about whacking him.

If Romo wasn’t showing anything you think Carter might have been put on some non-football related list and sent to rehab? Parcells sacrifieced that year, but I think he knew Carter was not going to take the team anywhere. His mistake with the reefer just forced the issue, but again, people who were there told me Romo impressed from day one.

by Rafael Vela on Dec 23, 2009 11:51 AM CST up reply actions  

I thought it was Coke...?

That did in Carter….

No, I’m just not a biased, mouthbreathing fucking retard like many (maybe the majority) of Eagles fans. - yomjoseki - The honest Eagles fan!

by tkosmith on Dec 23, 2009 11:53 AM CST up reply actions  

though he may have impressed

I don’t think he would’ve made the team over quincy (our starter), Vinny (Parcell’s guy) or Henson (the guy we paid a 3rd round draft pick for).

Ive read that many times, that they were impressed with Romo from the start. Parcells always had high praise for the guy. But theres no way Romo makes that team if Quincy isn’t cut.

by foyesboys on Dec 24, 2009 1:31 AM CST up reply actions  

they also need lots of development

they are more raw than a Big 10, SEC etc prospect

and may not be able to make the leap

by I_miss_Switzer on Dec 23, 2009 11:24 AM CST up reply actions  

Drew Pearson wasnt drafted and Roger went in the 10th.

To join in Rayfield Wright 7th, Larry Cole 16th.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Dec 23, 2009 2:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Larry Brown 12th round

in the Pearlman book, he said one of the reasons they took Brown was that he was already in Texas so the flight would be cheap

by I_miss_Switzer on Dec 23, 2009 3:51 PM CST up reply actions  

They knew Staubach's value, but he was headed for the military; he had to do his

stint before he could play. Taking him late wasn’t because he was an unknown quantity (the guy had won the Heisman) talent-wise, and I would imagine if he had come out and been able to go to a team right away, he would have been drafted much higher. I don’t see him as the kind of find others named here have been.

by Fernie67 on Dec 23, 2009 4:20 PM CST up reply actions  

It always made me chuckle

to think of Hennings squeezing himself into an A10 cockpit. A friend of mine served with him and said it looked ridiculous.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 24, 2009 7:17 AM CST up reply actions  

LOL - I heard he was a Warthof pilot because it was the only cockpit he could fit in

Totally off the subject but that brought to mind a joke I heard recently, which I’ll share here (at the risk of having it cut)

Pilot announces to the passengers who the flight crew is, which happens to be all women.

Nervous passenger asks flight attendant if this is the first time there hasn’t been a man in the cockpit.

Flight attendant smiles and says, “Yes, but now we refer to it as the box office.”

(Rimshot ;))

When in doubt, empty your magazine

by MudMarine on Dec 24, 2009 9:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Thanks for that

IT just cancelled my privileges…

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 24, 2009 9:42 AM CST up reply actions  

ROFLMAO - sorry ;-)

When in doubt, empty your magazine

by MudMarine on Dec 24, 2009 9:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Heres another outside the box player...

Matt Moore, I do believe that we brought him in as a Rookie Free Agent and he was on the roster for 3 years. He is now developing into a very nice QB and has a legitimate shot at being Carolina’s QB of the future. It would have been nice to keep him on the roster

by Dare2Dream on Dec 23, 2009 10:57 AM CST reply actions  

No

He got brought in as a rookie, but Dallas didn’t keep him on the roster. He’s been with Carolina ever since.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Dec 23, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions  

My Bad

for some reason I thought he was on our practice squad for a couple of years and Carolina signed him off of it. I think I will still be rooting for the kid, as long as he is not playing Dallas of course.

by Dare2Dream on Dec 23, 2009 11:02 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah same here.

He had a great game against Minnesota, hope he lights up the Giants.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Dec 23, 2009 11:03 AM CST up reply actions  

We tried to hide Moore

on the practice squad, but he got swiped.

Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.

by OskieOskie on Dec 23, 2009 11:05 AM CST up reply actions  

that was really disappointing.

We’d be much better off today if that had never happened.

by foyesboys on Dec 24, 2009 1:32 AM CST up reply actions  

What about Danny Amandola

He seems to be doing a decent job in St. Louis. With another Training Camp in his back pocket, he might make a really good #2 or 3 WR. Our depth at WR though did not afford us the luxury of keeping him.

by Dare2Dream on Dec 23, 2009 11:31 AM CST reply actions  

Amendola is largely unspectacular...

The only reason he’s seeing so much playing time now is because Laurent Robinson(Roberts?Robinson?That right?) got IR’d earlier this year.

No, I’m just not a biased, mouthbreathing fucking retard like many (maybe the majority) of Eagles fans. - yomjoseki - The honest Eagles fan!

by tkosmith on Dec 23, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions  

It's Robinson

From what I hear, he was poised to have a pretty good year, then got hurt. He might’ve even freed up some room for SJax. It’s unbelievable that guy’s the 2nd-leading rusher in the league when he’s facing 8-9 in the box on every play.

by Joon on Dec 26, 2009 3:00 PM CST up reply actions  

"He seems to be doing a decent job in St. Louis"

Bingo. He’s doing it for the most talent imporverished team in the NFL.

To be a #2 or a #3 means he’s pushing Williams, Crayton or Ogletree out the door. For all Roy Willy’s warts, I see nothing about Amendola to suggest he’s better or will be better than any of these guys.

And don’t forget, the Eagles tried him out and dumped him too — and then drafted more receivers.

by Rafael Vela on Dec 23, 2009 11:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Point Well Taken

But he is another of the Cowboys Rookie Free Agent Pick Ups, that spent some time with us, and is now playing for another team. Regardless of if he is playing for the worst team in the NFL, he is still playing in the NFL. With that being said, I agree that he does not have the talent to compete with our WRs. Given more practice and reps though, he could grow to be a good Slot Receiver in the NFL

by Dare2Dream on Dec 23, 2009 12:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Amendola is going to be a good #3 for the Rams....

Couldve done the same here, but I like Ogletree alot better….He is the future #3, maybe as soon as next season. Ogletree just adds a speed and quickness dimension Crayton can’t match…

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Dec 23, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Based on.....

the fact that he’s a #3 wideout on a team that has… no widereceivers?

He’s been… decent, but what has he done that has really made him that good of a #3 for the Rams?

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Dec 23, 2009 1:18 PM CST up reply actions  

His yd per reception is in the RB range - really poor

I give him credit for being a decent KR though. And the Rams have probably recieved more kickoffs than any otheer team.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Dec 23, 2009 4:15 PM CST up reply actions  

When I look at our drafting from 2003 on (BP was a change we needed and change our draft philosphy)

I cant tell if we are average because not enough hits from day 1 of the draft or excellent because of our uncanny ability to get good players from the 5th to FA.
If you judge a team by day 1 picks we seem average. If you check late rounders and URFA we seem number 1. I think we need to fine tune(all right over haul) are criteria for selecting OL. I think we try to get to cute with potential in rounds 3,4,5 with lineman instead of getting big productive guys.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Dec 23, 2009 3:01 PM CST reply actions  

Superb post.

There really should be a sarcasm font.

"Everybody wants something but nobody wants to pay the price" - Michael Irvin

by 24Hz on Dec 23, 2009 3:17 PM CST up reply actions  

to clarify

There really should be a sarcasm font for Trey’s last paragraph.

"Everybody wants something but nobody wants to pay the price" - Michael Irvin

by 24Hz on Dec 23, 2009 3:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Just need one more rec, here dunk!

I saw a dog today. Have you seen a dog? You probably have. How was school? Was it fun? Did you get a lot of homework? Huh? Do you have any friends? Do you have a best friend? Does he have a big coat, too?

by Aaron Novinger on Dec 24, 2009 9:56 AM CST up reply actions  

Crap!

I tried to rec myself. It’s un-American that you can’t rec yourself.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 24, 2009 10:45 AM CST up reply actions  

I'll add one. Consider it a "lifetime BTB poster achievement" award, dunk.

One more rec, anyone?

"Everybody wants something but nobody wants to pay the price" - Michael Irvin

by 24Hz on Dec 24, 2009 11:02 AM CST up reply actions  

One more from me

for service to this blog above and beyond the call of duty.

Et voilá, it’s green

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 24, 2009 11:19 AM CST up reply actions  

I thought it only took 3 to green it...does it take 4?

I saw a dog today. Have you seen a dog? You probably have. How was school? Was it fun? Did you get a lot of homework? Huh? Do you have any friends? Do you have a best friend? Does he have a big coat, too?

by Aaron Novinger on Dec 24, 2009 12:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Answered my own question. I unrec'd, then back out.

When I popped back in, it was green no more.

Four, it is!

I saw a dog today. Have you seen a dog? You probably have. How was school? Was it fun? Did you get a lot of homework? Huh? Do you have any friends? Do you have a best friend? Does he have a big coat, too?

by Aaron Novinger on Dec 24, 2009 12:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Just finished today!

I saw a dog today. Have you seen a dog? You probably have. How was school? Was it fun? Did you get a lot of homework? Huh? Do you have any friends? Do you have a best friend? Does he have a big coat, too?

by Aaron Novinger on Dec 24, 2009 4:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I feel a little nauseous now.

Trey, is this how it always feels???

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 24, 2009 4:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Does it turn red if 4 people flag it ??

And no, I didn’t say to try that on some of my posts!
Although on this one it would be OK, just for experimental purposes….

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Dec 24, 2009 5:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Yup.

And then it usually goes bye-bye when the “team” catches wind of them. That may only take 3 flags though.

I saw a dog today. Have you seen a dog? You probably have. How was school? Was it fun? Did you get a lot of homework? Huh? Do you have any friends? Do you have a best friend? Does he have a big coat, too?

by Aaron Novinger on Dec 24, 2009 6:10 PM CST up reply actions  

hmmm

so if I change my mind or am proved wrong, maybe it’ll let me go back and flag my own comments ……
Well, never happen!

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Dec 24, 2009 9:37 PM CST up reply actions  

We should have a true holiday-themed thread

Where the posts alternate green-red-green-red

by Joon on Dec 26, 2009 3:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Good post, and it proves that at overall talent acquisition we arent bad at all. Unfortunately

we have a number of posters more into complaining. Dont get me wrong, I would like to draft 7 HOFers every year but I can live with what we have and hope to continue to improve our ability to evaluate talent.
which brings up the 2nd point. If we keep our offensive a defensive systems in place we should get better every year at it. If we tank it and Wade goes, I hope we get a guy who will keep the 3-4 and the verticle passing game we now use.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Dec 23, 2009 3:21 PM CST up reply actions  

I think the reason for the negativity is that it is hard to forgive what happened in the war room from 1994-2001

The Cowboy talent hauls in 2003 and 2005 are the stuff that dynaties get built on. Romo, Witten, James Newman in 2003 and Ware ,Spears, Barber, Canty and Ratliff in 2005. The class from 2006 was weaker, but not a bust with Austin, Hatcher, Carpenter and Watkins. The jury is still out on the last two draft classes, but it is a good sign that this team has sixteen rookies and second year players on the roster. (3 are on IR)

Fans still bust on the Cowboy drafts, but you really have to go back to 2001 to find a real stinker. Other then Dexter Coakley, Greg Ellis, Flozell Adams and Larry Allen all of the drafts from 1994-2001 were horrible. The Cowboys have been solid at acquiring players since then, but since some fans are still angry about losing nearly a decade waiting on Jerry Jones to find and listen to good draft advice they refuse to believe when their eyes are telling them that the Cowboys are doing a fine job of evaluating and acquiring young talent.

by Trey, on Dec 23, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Losing for A Decade

Certainly impacts the credibility of the GM. Jerry has put a stain on the franchise that will never go away; it is as significant as the three championships. I sincerely wish we could hire a football operations guy for GM duties; someone like Cowher, Fisher, Mack Brown . . . and then let this guy hire a HC and coordinators . . . and rebuild the draft war room. I think Dallas will do this eventually; after the funeral where Jerry is finally laid to rest.

by Iowacowboy on Dec 24, 2009 7:13 AM CST up reply actions  

Mack would never leave Texas IMO

He’s got it way too good. And was Cowher the head guy during drafts?

by Joon on Dec 26, 2009 3:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Mack will be leaving soon

he’s already cherry-picked his DC (muschamp) to succeed him

It's not that I'm saying we're due a playoff win, but I didn't have my license to drive when we won our last one...

by bulldog jeeper on Dec 26, 2009 5:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Hatcher, Carpenter and Watkins.

And 3 bucks would get you a large cup of nice coffee at Starbucks.

by Iowacowboy on Dec 24, 2009 7:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Hatcher is the guy who bugs me

I thought he would develop. He is pure JAG.

by I_miss_Switzer on Dec 24, 2009 10:32 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah

he hasn’t lived up to the initial promise for sure.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Dec 24, 2009 10:46 AM CST up reply actions  

Good one Trey

rec that comment till it turns green

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2009 4:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Christmasy!

I saw a dog today. Have you seen a dog? You probably have. How was school? Was it fun? Did you get a lot of homework? Huh? Do you have any friends? Do you have a best friend? Does he have a big coat, too?

by Aaron Novinger on Dec 23, 2009 10:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Have we all forgotten about Roy Williams?

Agree with Trey and would add that yes Dallas has had success with low end picks and undrafted guys but generally that`s because we`ve NEEDED to! Some of our blue chip contracts aren`t exactly helping (Williams and Barber just on offense) but it`s not as if we`ve drafted heavily in certain positions(wideout) either. Oh and Trey Jacob Rogers WASN`T a stinker???52nd overall in 2004? Oh and this last draft isn`t looking that great either although it is still early

by voidhelix on Dec 23, 2009 9:23 PM CST reply actions  

Whether you're a draftnik or an average fan...

How can you POSSIBLY hang your hat on individual draft picks – boom or bust???

This is highly ridiculous, as EVERY TEAM IN EVERY DRAFT has busts…

EVERY ROUND IN EVERY YEAR has busts…

Gentlemen, it’s okay if you want to spin your wheels in 20/20 hindsight, but start with a simple fact: the draft is about BATTING AVERAGE and HITTING SOME HOME RUNS… Albert Pujols is considered the best baseball player of the last decade. He also struck out 500+ times, no doubt some of those strike outs to end games.

Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.

by DalaiLuke on Dec 23, 2009 10:11 PM CST up reply actions  

As much as we've missed on OLinemen recently....Jerry got it right quite a few times!

Ron Stone-Rd4/13 yrs,George Hegamin-Rd3/7yrs, Larry Allen-Rd2/15yrs,Erik Williams-Rd3/11yrs,Mark Stepnoski-Rd3/13yrs,Steve Wisniewski-Rd2/13yrs,Flozell Adams-Rd2/12yrs,Oliver Ross-Rd5/11yrs,Matt Lehr-Rd5/9yrs, Andre Gurode-Rd2/8yrs +don’t forget Garmon and Page who both went F/Agent and got injured….Just because you can’t afford keep your talent doesn’t mean you haven’t made good choices.

At this point if Brewster+Bright can come along like Free has we’ll be okay,Next year we can use some picks to solidify the O-Line.

by psychodad on Dec 24, 2009 1:19 AM CST reply actions  

Steve Wisniewski

Was a mistake not a pick by Jerry. We selected him for the Raiders, not for our own team.

by Iowacowboy on Dec 24, 2009 7:16 AM CST reply actions  

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