Dallas Cowboys news & notes
by Dave Halprin on Feb 13, 2009 3:40 PM CST
in News
126 comments
Some quick stories for a Friday afternoon.
The official website has an article about DeMarcus Ware and James Harrison. The Steelers are trying to sign Harrison to an extension like the Cowboys are trying to do with Ware. Considering both players are OLB's in a 3-4 defense, finished 1 and 2 in the defensive Player of the Year award, and both basically wreak havoc in the opposing backfield, they have a lot of similarities. The Steelers are further along in their negotiations so Cowboys officials are keeping an eye on that outcome in terms of signing Ware. What kind of money are we talking about?
Last off-season Minnesota gave defensive end Jared Allen a six-year deal worth $74 million with just over $31 million guaranteed, and the year before that the Colts handed defensive end Dwight Freeney a six-year, $72 million deal.
The DMN blog takes a look at our offensive line in terms of personnel, offering hints at free agency and draft strategies.
Todd Archer talks Dallas' own free agents.
The T.O. show rolls on, this time SI.com's Don Banks is the conductor. The funniest thing about Banks' long article into the future of T.O. is that he has sources on both side of the issue. And they way they talk sounds just like the two camps on this blog. Very amusing.
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Harrison
I’m going to be interested to see what kind of deal the Steelers give Harrison considering he’s 30 years old.
by AirforceBat on Feb 13, 2009 4:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The Steelers don't usually do this
Kinda shocking that they are going to. They could just let Harrison go in a few years, plug in some other no-name LB and have him get 15 sacks.
by mhuff13 on Feb 13, 2009 4:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
But he is SERIOUSLY underpaid.
He might not get a monster deal, but his play has well exceeded his contract.
by AirforceBat on Feb 13, 2009 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yea but regardless
The Steelers still usually don’t do this. That’s why Chad Brown left for Seattle.
by mhuff13 on Feb 13, 2009 6:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No way
Harrison has one good season, and all of a sudden he’s worth over 12 million a year?
Dude will get paid, but Pittsburgh isn’t that crazy…I think.
Epic Fail since 1985
by the red scare on Feb 13, 2009 9:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
His contract will surely be used to determine Ware's contract
which is good, cuz Ware can’t expect to make too much more than the reigning Player of the Year, at the same exact position….Look for Ware to get a bit more than Freeney-Allan type numbers…maybe (6 years – 80 million. 36 million guaranteed)
by CowboysRnumba1 on Feb 13, 2009 6:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
How can Ware not expect to make more than the reigning DPOY?
he will make significantly more than Harrison. Harrison had an amazing year, and should get paid for it. Everyone knows that Ware is the future of the NFL on the defensive side of the ball.
Harrison is 30, and pretty much a system player. Ware is 26 and a one man wrecking crew. Imagine what he would do with some other talented pass rushers around him that aren’t 34 years old…
Ware should and WILL get the richest contract a defensive player has gotten in NFL history.
by mhuff13 on Feb 13, 2009 6:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Agreed… he’s soon to be the highest paid defensive player in NFL history
by commoncents on Feb 13, 2009 6:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He'll be the 2nd...
Behind Haynesworth.
But Ware will be making more than Harrison, he’s a better complete player.
by AirforceBat on Feb 13, 2009 7:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Ware will get more than Haynesworth
The only one who might beat him is Peppers.
by mhuff13 on Feb 13, 2009 7:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
From everything I read...
Haynesworth will, mainly because it’s so hard to find an interior lineman that is that good.
by AirforceBat on Feb 13, 2009 7:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree Haynesworth will be the most expensive
But Ware will set the new bar for the DE/OLB, and he deserves every penny. I don’t feel the same way about Fat Albert. He’s a player you have to wonder about going on cruise control after the new contract.
Feb. 18-24 -- NFL Scouting Combine
Feb. 27 -- Veteran free agency signing period begins. Trading period begins.
April 25-26 -- NFL Draft
by APerfectStar on Feb 13, 2009 8:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't underestimate the Jerry Jones factor
Ware very well could get a contract bigger than Haynesworth. Jerry likes to make headlines.
by mhuff13 on Feb 13, 2009 8:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree.
Plus he’s a nutcase.
by AirforceBat on Feb 13, 2009 9:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wares 5 years younger
and you could make the case hes much more valuable to our success than harrison is to pitt’s. Heck, you could make the case that hes BY FAR the best all around OLB in the league, a position crucial to the 3-4.
Ware could ask for pretty much any number he wants.
by foyesboys on Feb 13, 2009 6:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is there a case to be made?
Ware may be the best PLAYER in the NFL, regardless of position.
by mhuff13 on Feb 13, 2009 6:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've heard $40MM guaranteed is one of his agent's goals
And it actually doesn’t sound unreasonable.
Larry Allen benched 700 pounds. That is Leonard Davis times two.
by Tim Wilson on Feb 14, 2009 9:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the contract numba1 came up covers that.
by squidlo97 on Feb 13, 2009 6:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
with the way contracts have been balooning...
if jared allen just got 71 mil, ware could get 85.
by foyesboys on Feb 13, 2009 6:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Shut up, don't give his agent any ideas
Jerry will be lucky if he only has to put out 80 over 6.
by birdness on Feb 13, 2009 6:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
btw....TO just won his second consecutive MVP trophy at the NBA's All Star Celebrity Game
by CowboysRnumba1 on Feb 13, 2009 8:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
God....
I hope a decision on Owens gets made soon.
by AirforceBat on Feb 13, 2009 8:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
who did he beat out? Justin Timberlake? LOL
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Feb 14, 2009 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hall of Famers Clyde Drexler & Dominique Wilkins, All Star-Dan Maralie, 4 Harlem Globtrotters, WNBA's Lisa Leslie, Lawton, and Nancy Leiberman Kline
Not exactly lacking canidates here…
He was the best player on the court…nuff said…not like it matters..
by CowboysRnumba1 on Feb 14, 2009 11:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
oh, former pro athletes in their 40s
I would hope he’d be the best athlete on the court
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Feb 14, 2009 11:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
5 years...
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Feb 15, 2009 12:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ummm...we're talking basketball players, not who the best athlete out there was..
ahhhh….forget it..
by CowboysRnumba1 on Feb 15, 2009 9:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
TO
i thought the Banks article on TO has been the most objective piece i’ve read on the TO subject to date….
the people that think that these guys are going to be singing kumbaya around the campfire next season without TO are going to be surprised
by McLovin9 on Feb 13, 2009 8:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
I know that after the decision is made it’s going to be chaotic on these boards.
If they keep him, and they don’t go far in the playoffs, it’ll be because he’s a huge distraction.
If they let him go and they don’t go far in the playoffs, it’ll be because he’s not here.
You have overreactors both ways right now.
“Romo will be revealed as a fraud without him.” Which has no substantial evidence, and if it’s truely the case then Dallas isn’t even close to being a super bowl contender, with or without TO.
Then you have the people who believe that Owens is the anti christ, which is fueled further by the media.
It should be a wild few months ahead.
by AirforceBat on Feb 13, 2009 9:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think TO was good for Romo in the beginning. I just think this past year one of Romo and Garretts problem was TO.
Romo will be better long term without TO. He has stalled Romos growth. You cant play the QB position trying to keep a player happy.
I would rather hitch may wagon to Romo. He might not be the one but again. I know TO aint the one.
by squidlo97 on Feb 14, 2009 10:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm...Sure looks like Romo kept Witten happy...anything to that ?
by CowboysRnumba1 on Feb 14, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, unlike T.O, Witten got open consistently
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Feb 14, 2009 11:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You seem to have forgotten 2007
when TO was out. If memory serves me right, Witten’s numbers went down considerably because they were able to double up on Witten. Face it, TO takes away some of the coverage where Witten can get open
by texstar on Feb 14, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess Witten's numbers in '04 and '05 (over a whole season) were nothing more than an abberation.
You’re talking about a limited sampling size amounting to not even two whole games when the wide receiver corps was wittled down to Crayton, Hurd, Austin who still couldn’t catch a ball and a gimpy Terry Glenn who played two or three plays against the Skins. Even with the greatly improved Austin from last season, that trio would be something like the 32nd best in the league.
by MadMick on Feb 14, 2009 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well look who they had in 2007
Wasn’t Glenn gone most of that year? They had Hurd, Austin, Stanback as the other receivers. JJ along with MB3. No Felix Jones, no RW, no T. Choice, Bennett….This core without TO will fair alot better than the one in 2007 without him..bank on it..
by Boyzfan94 on Feb 15, 2009 11:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Does Witten get open without T.O. drawing coverage?
No chance.
by mhuff13 on Feb 14, 2009 9:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Witten performed well before TO got here.
Sometimes that is forgotten. Witten will still perform well if TO goes, although no doubt he production will dip at least a bit. TO helps Witten, but TO isnt the reason Witten is so good
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Feb 15, 2009 12:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes he did Aussie.....
Without TO, teams still won’t be able to double Witten. Not with Felix, Austin and RW on the field.
by Boyzfan94 on Feb 15, 2009 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Austin has 18 career catches
not someone opposing Defences will be worried about. And right now RW is only a borderline #1 wideout. Witten will be doubled.
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Feb 16, 2009 12:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's ridiculous mhuff13
If you think Witten’s success is due to the fact that he plays on the same team as TO, then you haven’t followed the Cowboys very long. Witten will get open no matter what.
Does it help him to have TO on the team? Sure
Is it what makes him the top TE in the game? No
Feb. 18-24 -- NFL Scouting Combine
Feb. 27 -- Veteran free agency signing period begins. Trading period begins.
April 25-26 -- NFL Draft
by APerfectStar on Feb 15, 2009 2:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
All I'm saying is that if T.O. is gone
I hope that everyone isn’t hoping for Witten to be our game breaker. He won’t get open as much with T.O. gone.
And here we go again with the ’haven’t followed the Cowboys very long’ nonsense….
There’s a difference between getting open on 6 yard curls and getting open down the seam for 35 yard gains. You think the coverage slid to T.O. doesn’t keep that safety over there just a split second longer to help Witten get open down the middle? That won’t happen if it’s Austin and Roy.
by mhuff13 on Feb 15, 2009 2:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He did it before TO
That’s why I disagree with the argument that Witten will be unproductive without TO. Maybe he doesn’t have gaudy stats, but he’s still money on the 3rd and < 10.
Witten is able to get open against LB’s and safeties, that won’t change. If they want to double team our TE, then RW2, Austin, Crayton will get open. Not many teams are going to do that I would think, but let them try.
Feb. 18-24 -- NFL Scouting Combine
Feb. 27 -- Veteran free agency signing period begins. Trading period begins.
April 25-26 -- NFL Draft
by APerfectStar on Feb 15, 2009 3:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Teams will double Witten constantly
He is our only proven threat if TO is gone. RW is a below average #1, Craytonis nothing special and Austin only has 18 career catches. OUr passing game is not very formidable without TO.
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Feb 15, 2009 3:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would be surprised if teams did that
Doubling a TE is very foolish, but let’s hope they do that. There would be some very happy WR’s, not to mention all of our RB’s who can catch well.
I think anytime you part with a player who is at TO’s level, it’s going to impact the offense somewhat, but it’s not going to be a catastrophe. If he is cut this off-season, the offense will have time to plan and adjust accordingly.
Feb. 18-24 -- NFL Scouting Combine
Feb. 27 -- Veteran free agency signing period begins. Trading period begins.
April 25-26 -- NFL Draft
by APerfectStar on Feb 15, 2009 3:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yea we can adjust
I just think it will be about 60% running.
by mhuff13 on Feb 15, 2009 3:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How did that work this year WITH T.O.
People doubled T.O. constantly, and nobody on the team seemed to ever be open. Nobody was getting any separation. You take away our only legitimate deep threat, and that gets worse.
I don’t know if it’s the play calling, the talent, the execution, or the desire. I’m thinking a little bit of everything but talent, we definitely got that.
by mhuff13 on Feb 15, 2009 3:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Felix Jones, will be the big play threat...Austin will also. He has the speed....
We still need a speedy wideout for the slot of 4th WR eventually…
by Boyzfan94 on Feb 15, 2009 11:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thats unbelievable B.S. He is a matchup nightmare and a top 3 TE in the league as a receiver.
by squidlo97 on Feb 15, 2009 10:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course he is a top 3 TE in the league.
I think he’s the best TE in the league.
But to think that the coverage T.O. receives doesn’t help Witten get open is just odd.
by mhuff13 on Feb 15, 2009 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Everone helps everyone
You dont think putting Witten on the same side of the field with TO doesnt help TO. With Witten barreling down the middle the safety cant just let him go and slide over to TO. He helps TO just as much.
by squidlo97 on Feb 15, 2009 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Witten
generally is more of a dumpoff guy.
I don’t think that’s comparable.
by AirforceBat on Feb 14, 2009 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly....dump off guy that isn't covered properly because TO is drawing away his coverage..
by CowboysRnumba1 on Feb 14, 2009 11:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
TO helps Witten and if he is cut, Witten will suffer
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Feb 14, 2009 5:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
More BS. A dump off guy is in the flat or running a drag route. Witten goes much deeper route and regularly seen running down the middle of the field.
I love TO the player as much as you but dont start making things up to prove your point. TO helps every one on the field without a doubt it just the media circus hurts us off the field.
by squidlo97 on Feb 15, 2009 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I love Witten, think he's the best TE in football
But to think that he will run down the middle of the field open without a WR that draws the safety over the top I think is just wrong. The fact that T.O. is the threat that he is, makes the safety cheat over to his side. This gives Witten just those extra few seconds of open space ahead of him when he gets past the guy covering him.
Without T.O. that space behind the guy covering him will disappear much faster.
by mhuff13 on Feb 15, 2009 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree with you Huff
I love Witten as well but people need to realize he’s a tight end and not a receiver. TO opens up that space for Witten.
by texstar on Feb 15, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The LB cant hang with Witten. The safety must help or Witten is gone.
If TO is gone and the safety takes Witten out of the play, then someone has man to man on the outside and he must produce. I think we have guys who can do that.
by squidlo97 on Feb 15, 2009 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That will be the key
IF the guys on the outside can produce if T.O. is gone. Because defenses WILL double Witten until they can prove otherwise.
by mhuff13 on Feb 15, 2009 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what guys have done that ???
then someone has man to man on the outside and he must produce. I think we have guys who can do that.
key words noted in bold…
by CowboysRnumba1 on Feb 15, 2009 9:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
numba1.......really.....what the heck are you going to say or do when he is gone..I mean it's doom and gloom
with you without TO on this team. Are you going to bash the hell out of Jerry because he didn’t keep him until he was 65…c’mon…lol It’s going to happen……..it’s only a matter of when.
by Boyzfan94 on Feb 15, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He wont have to worry about it till next offseason
"Ask Philly was it hard tryin' a stop TO, he da main reason that the fans would come fo'."
by aussie_cowboy on Feb 16, 2009 12:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Witten has better chemistry with Romo. TO has chemistry with himself because he loves him some him!
Seriously, our team isnt going to do anything until we fix the locker room. there needs to be some weeding out of some personalities. This crew of RW, TO, Garrett, Romo, Crayton, and Austin isnt going to go deep into January. I believe Romo will lead me farther than TO. I love TO the player. I just think chaos follows this guy.
HEY everyone!!! Can we pick a post for crying out loud. Im dancing all over.
by squidlo97 on Feb 14, 2009 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
AFB Lets not overstate my case here. I sincerly hope Romo can do well without Owens ,inevitably he will have to.
All i was ever saying was what has he ever done without TO. I did say without Owens, Romo may be exposed. I never said he was a fraud but the way he is idolized around here by some it would lead the uneducated to believe he’d actually accomplished something besides winning 13 games one season. All I am saying is if Owens is let go we’d better have a plan to replace him. Roy2 is not a plan he is a hope based on not a whole lot. Can Austin fill that void I certainly hope so. Can we afford to have a gaping hole in our receiving corp filled with 9 million in dead money , not if we want to win this year.
Don't believe everything you think.
Your causes are cute!!!
by stoproyce on Feb 14, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If I were Pittsburgh...
I would not give Harrison anything CLOSE to those Jared Allen/Dwight Freeney numbers. The guy is a solid player, but I think it’s equal parts talent and Dick LeBeau’s scheme. As was mentioned above, Pittsburgh has been able to plug LBs into that system for years and get outstanding results, and they’ve got two high draft picks in Woodley and Timmons chomping at the bit at OLB. Harrison is 30 and, despite his excellent season, is a former practice squad guy. He is not a physical freak who you need to pay to lock up because he’s a unique player.
It’s too bad for them that they have to renegotiate (which they do, because for a DPOY, he is highly underpaid), because I think they’d prefer to let him play out his contract and then plug in a younger replacement when the time comes and watch whoever the new guys are continue to make the Pro Bowl.
Larry Allen benched 700 pounds. That is Leonard Davis times two.
by Tim Wilson on Feb 14, 2009 9:07 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I agree, Harrison is overrated
as all Steelers OLB are, going back to Greg Lloyd and Kevin Greene.
They are all percieved to be better than their talent because of LeBeau’s schemes.
I guarantee Rooney won’t break the bank on this guy.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Feb 14, 2009 9:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Harrison is one intense beast. I think Pitt has its template in place and know what they are looking for in a player.
I love Dick Lebeau but when Capers ran things there they were just as good. Pitt may change coaches, personal, and players but the system of finding and teaching stays the same. Its the main reason I dont want the 4-3 or the west coach. Lets just get as good with our system as they are with theirs.
by squidlo97 on Feb 14, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
they weren't better with Capers
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Feb 14, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you serious?!
Come on, how is he “overrated”?
I think Ware is better, but the system doesn’t get you 7 forced fumbles.
The scheme doesn’t get you to run 100 yard INT back at a crucial time in the game.
That’s all heart and effort.
And Kevin Greene was overrated?! Terry your just hating man. If it was scheme, then how the hell did he have 15, 12 sacks when he was in Carolina?
Or all the years with the Rams when he was registering double digit sacks?!
Congratulations, I have never called someone out on something so badly on these boards.
You have to give credit where credit was due. Kevin Greene was one of the 15 best pass rushers of all time.
by AirforceBat on Feb 14, 2009 11:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I bleed blue and silver...
And I strongly dislike the Steelers, but you have to give credit where credit is due.
If it was all “scheme” in pittsburg, then how come when Dick Lebeau was head coach of the Bengals their defense sucked so badly?
by AirforceBat on Feb 14, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
obviously he couldn't get players there to fit his schemes
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Feb 14, 2009 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously?
So if thats the case then it isn’t all just “scheme”.
Isn’t that what EVERY coach in the NFL does? They get their personnel to fit into their scheme.
So was Joe Montana overrated because he played in a west coast offense?
That’s a scheme.
by AirforceBat on Feb 14, 2009 11:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not overrated, but I think he wouldn't have been as good
if it wasn’t for Walsh and the WCO did play to his strengths, absolutely.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Feb 14, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So it goes back to this...
Everyone has a scheme.
You could honest to god say that about every player in the NFL.
by AirforceBat on Feb 14, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
there are some players, like Ware, who could excel in any scheme.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Feb 14, 2009 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
But that doesn’t mean that Harrison is overrated.
I agree, he isn’t as good as Ware, but you don’t get forced fumbles off of scheme.
If you believe that, then you know absolutely nothing about football.
by AirforceBat on Feb 14, 2009 11:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LeBeau puts his players in positions
to make plays and therefore being in a position to force fumbles.
Hey, it’s just my opinion that Steelers LBs are overrated, if you think otherwise thats fine.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Feb 14, 2009 11:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I couldn't agree more
Every few years they recycle their LB’s with a bunch of nobodies who get 12-15 sacks. That’s scheme.
by mhuff13 on Feb 14, 2009 9:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Who are these nobodies that get these sacks?
? Name the nobodies that get 12-15 sacks every year.
by AirforceBat on Feb 14, 2009 10:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
James Harrison
Where was he a few years ago? Oh yea, getting cut by the Steelers for the 3rd time.
by mhuff13 on Feb 15, 2009 2:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So...
Is Wes Welker a nobody too?
Plus that is one example.
by AirforceBat on Feb 15, 2009 7:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wes Welker actually did something for another team
Unlike Harrison who was actually cut by the Steelers 3 times.
by mhuff13 on Feb 15, 2009 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Welker caught limited passes in Miami but was a decent KR
Just another great personal move by Patriots to see the potential. Welkers work in Miami wasnt that impressive which is why Miami didnt match. You think they wouldnt of matched if they thoiught he was capable of that
by squidlo97 on Feb 15, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That almost helps prove my point though
Is Welker capable of that in Miami? Or anywhere else? Or could it be only in that offense?
by mhuff13 on Feb 15, 2009 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It suits his skill set but I would have to say yes. I cant remember who was throwing to Welker in Miami and that right there tells you it wasnt much.
i think he has been coached up since he has been there. Im not saying a 100+ balls but a very effective player.
by squidlo97 on Feb 15, 2009 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't know, and I guess we will never really know
I’m not saying that Welker is even in the same universe, but Calvin Johnson had the year he had with Dan Orlavsky throwing him the ball most of the year.
I just think Welker is another product of an amazing system in New England.
by mhuff13 on Feb 15, 2009 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just because...
you breakout late doesn’t make you a nobody.
If that is the case then Kurt Warner and Drew Brees are nobodies.
Hell brees was about to get replaced before he got better.
Because you develop into something better doesn’t make you a “nobody”. It just means the light finally clicked on.
I swear to God why is that so hard to understand?
Every player in the NFL is put into a scheme, that’s what GOOD COACHES do.
They put players in schemes to maximize their ability.
If they aren’t doing that, then they are bad coordinators.
Forced fumbles, no matter what someone says, are not a result of scheme.
You don’t know that, you never played football on any level.
That is purely instinct to go for the ball.
by AirforceBat on Feb 15, 2009 7:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Aaaaaaand...
What exactly about the zone blitz makes a linebacker so much more effective?
Because guys can be dropping back periodically into zones?
The reason the scheme is good is because they have the players to orchestrate it.
Watch last year and watch this year, when Polamalu is hurt that entire team’s production is hurt.
BUT that doesn’t mean that Harrison is overrated. Because if you take away Ed Reed from the ravens the entire production falls for the defense.
by AirforceBat on Feb 15, 2009 8:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Drew Brees played at a Big 10 school and was an early 2nd round pick
Hardly a nobody.
Did you know who James Harrison was 3 years ago? Unless you were a Pittsburgh fan, or followed them closely…you probably didn’t. That means he was a nobody.
Two years ago he had ZERO sacks.
And do you really know if I ever played football at any level? Please leave rediculous nonsense like that out because it just makes you sound petty.
by mhuff13 on Feb 15, 2009 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
All that shows is the talent evaluators still miss and heart goes along way.
You think Pitt would be happy if Baltimore signed him back. Think Harrison washes out in Balt or Miami. I dont. I tell you 1 more thing, I dont want to see his ass in an NFC East jersey next year either.
by squidlo97 on Feb 15, 2009 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Eh let him do it a few more years and I'll agree
I remember Christian Okoye led the league in rushing 1 year. Didn’t do much other than that.
If he does this for a few more years then I’ll agree.
by mhuff13 on Feb 15, 2009 3:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Petty?
I know that anyone who has played football knows that forcing fumbles isn’t something that is related to scheme.
Hell anyone who has played Madden knows that.
I’d rather sound petty then ignorant.
by AirforceBat on Feb 15, 2009 6:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And I also wansn't the one arguing with you about forced fumbles
But anyhow…
by mhuff13 on Feb 15, 2009 7:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well James Harrison
had 7 forced fumbles which is unreal in the NFL.
My case is that you might get sacks in a scheme(which is still kind of bull crap because you still have to get past a tackle and/or a tightend and runningback, but whatever), but scheme has absolutely nothing to do with forced fumbles.
Thats being relentless, and being fierce.
It isn’t all scheme dude.
Scheme will get you into a position to do something, but any 30 year old 240 lb. linebacker that can run 100 yards back in the super bowl, can’t be all that overrated.
Overachieving maybe, but not overrated.
by AirforceBat on Feb 15, 2009 9:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
These nobodies get signed as FA and light it up else where. Thats not scheme thats good talent evaluations.
by squidlo97 on Feb 15, 2009 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
How did Chad Brown do when he left Pittsburgh? Not nearly as good as he did in Pittsburgh.
I’ll try to find one, but if you know one please name 1 player who left Pittsburgh and ‘lit it up’ elsewhere. The only one I can think of offhand is Joey Porter this year.
by mhuff13 on Feb 15, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
chad Brown was decent but injuries got him. Hardy Nickleson was a beast in TB.
Greg LLoyd. i really cant think of any cause I dont follow them. LB is also a position that is good for only 6-8 years. The leave after 5. Not alot of productive years left.
i know the scheme is great but they have misses on players and scheme doesnt save them. My main point is the process for identifing those players that fit is just as good as the scheme They know just what they are looking for. Can you name a team that has pick more great LB. Maybe Chicago, they have a nice history. After that I dont think noone comes close.
by squidlo97 on Feb 15, 2009 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hard to really pick a team that has done that
Kinda rare that teams stick with 1 scheme that many years, through multiple coaches.
by mhuff13 on Feb 15, 2009 2:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1000000 AFB
Don't believe everything you think.
Your causes are cute!!!
by stoproyce on Feb 14, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I never Harrison sucked
or any other Steelers LB, I said LeBeau’s schemes make them look better than what they really are.
You put Harrison in another 3-4 defense, he wouldn’t be as productive.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Feb 14, 2009 11:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But you...
DONT KNOW THAT.
Forced fumbles have absooooooolutely nothing to do with scheme.
by AirforceBat on Feb 14, 2009 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it does if it means he's getting more opportunites
to get them.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Feb 14, 2009 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well then...
Is Ware just getting sacks because he’s in Wade Phillips “scheme”?
by AirforceBat on Feb 14, 2009 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ware could get sacks in any scheme
because he’s extremely talented and gifted player.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Feb 14, 2009 11:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You don't know that
How can you say one is scheme and one is talent? That is crazy dude? Just admit it, both are tremendous athletes. Lebeau’s staff has done a wonderful job of developing LB’s. Another good example by the way guys, is Joey Porter. I believe he had a pretty good year in Miami? Scheme, I don’t think so? Talent-Bingo
by texstar on Feb 14, 2009 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1 and Harrison is better than Porter...
go figure..
by CowboysRnumba1 on Feb 14, 2009 12:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good call!
I totally forgot about Porter doing so well this year!
by AirforceBat on Feb 14, 2009 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Give the guy credit, that’s lame to call it scheme. Give the guy credit. He’s one of the best, if not the best, in the game. I will say, to Labeau credit, he does a wonderful job of developing LB’s but it takes a lot more than scheme.
by texstar on Feb 14, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kevin Greene really wasn't a Steelers linebacker, brother.
He spent his 1st 8 years in the league with the Rams and had a pair of 16.5-sack seasons with them and he also had a couple of 15-sack seasons with the Panthers after he left the Steelers. 160 career sacks means you ain’t merely a system linebacker.
by MadMick on Feb 14, 2009 11:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Amen...
If anything, I think Greene might be underrated.
by AirforceBat on Feb 14, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
New Drafttek 7 round mock
51. Derek Pegues, FS, Mississippi St
69. Kraig Urbik, OG, Wisconsin
97. Dannell Ellerbe, ILB, Georgia
113. Jason Watkins, OT, Florida
148. Lawrence Sidbury Jr., OLB, Richmond
158. Kenny McKinley, WR, South Carolina
184. Joe Burnett, CB, Central Florida
193. Terrance Knighton, DT/NT, Temple
210. Travis McCall, FB, Alabama
http://www.drafttek.com/round12009.asp
by tyler2 on Feb 14, 2009 11:08 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
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