Come on Wade, Crack the Whip!
by BishopWest on Mar 24, 2009 3:38 AM CDT
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PrintTake a guess what these numbers represent:
119, 102, 83, 74, 57
These numbers represent the total number of penalties of five different teams last year.
57 – NE – the least penalized team in the league last year.
The other four numbers represent the NFC East teams:
74 – PHI
83 – WAS
102 – NYG
119 – DAL – the most penalized team in the league last year.
CAN YOU BELIEVE IT! THE COWBOYS WERE THE MOST PENALIZED TEAM IN THE LEAGUE LAST YEAR!
Over the last couple of days, I’ve taken the time to crunch the numbers and want to share with you what I found out.
I have divided the Cowboys penalties into GROUPS (OL, DL, LB, etc.)
First, let me give you these numbers:
The Offense was penalized 58 times (427 yards)
The Defense was penalized 42 times (343 yards)
The Special Teams were penalized 19 times (182 yards)
Here is the breakdown for each group with the player with the most penalty yards listed first.
The Offensive Line = 33 penalties (235 yards)
Adams - 13 for 85
Davis - 6 for 55
Columbo - 8 for 45
Gurode - 3 for 30
Procter - 2 for 20
Kosier - 1 for 10
Observations: Adams is the most penalized player on the team. He was the first player in 2008 to be flagged, and it only took until the 6th play of the first game for him to get off on the wrong foot. Of his 13 penalties, 9 of them were False Starts. He had penalties in 11 different games. On 9 of his penalties the offense did not get a first down after his gaff and either had to punt, settle for a long FG, or ended up with a turnover. He single handedly stalled more drives than any other player on the 52 man roster. Columbo is almost as bad, he had 6 False Starts. By comparison, Gurode had 1, while Procter and Kosier had zero False Starts.
The Tight Ends and Wide Receivers = 15 penalties (109 yards)
Witten - 6 for 34
Owens - 2 for 25
Bennett - 3 for 23
Crayton - 1 for 10
Unnamed - 1 for 10
Curtis - 2 for 7
Observations: I was a little surprised to see that of Witten’s 6 penalties, 4 of them were False Starts. T.Owens had 2 penalties in the first game, and then went the next 15 games without a single infraction.
The Quarterbacks = 9 penalties (68 yards)
Romo - 8 for 63
Johnson - 1 for 5
Observations: Romo had 4 Intentional Groundings, and 4 Delay of Games.
The Running Backs = 1 penalty (15 yards)
Barber - 1 for 15
Observations: The RBs are the least penalized group on the team. Barber had 1 Face Mask call for 15 yards. There were no other gaffs in this group. Great concentration guys! Keep up the good work!
The Defensive Line = 16 penalties (108 yards)
Ratliff - 5 for 44
Johnson - 4 for 35
Spears - 4 for 19
Hatcher - 2 for 10
Canty - 0 for 0
Observations: Notice that Canty was never penalized the whole year (and now he belongs to the NYGs.) 10 of the 16 DL penalties were Offsides, Encroachment, or Neutral Zone Infractions. To be a part-time sub, Tank Johnson had more penalties than most of the DL starters.
The Linebackers = 12 penalties (66 yards)
Ware - 5 for 25
James - 2 for 20
Ellis - 4 for 16
Spencer - 1 for 5
Z.Thomas - 0 for 0
Observations: Notice that Z.Thomas was never penalized in 2008 (and now has been replaced by Brooking.) All 5 of Ware’s penalties were Offsides and 2 of them came late in the season when he was approaching the sack record.
The Defensive Backs = 12 penalties (155 yards)
Newman - 2 for 44
Henry - 2 for 33
Davis - 1 for 21
Scandrick - 2 for 20
Jones - 2 for 16
Watkins - 1 for 15
Ball - 1 for 5
Hamlin - 1 for 1
Jenkins - 0 for 0
Observations: Jenkins did not have a penalty while playing defense, but only when he was on Special Teams. Hamlin was only penalized for 1 yard all year. Henry never had another penalty after game 5. Both of Newman’s infractions came late in the year (game 15 and 17.)
Also the Defense had 2 penalties by unnamed players, both of which were “12 men on the field.”
The Special Teams = 19 penalties (182 yards)
Watkins - 4 for 45
Carpenter - 3 for 25
Rogers - 2 for 20
Holland - 1 for 15
Octavien - 1 for 15
Jenkins - 2 for 12
Ladouceur - 1 for 10
Scandrick - 1 for 10
Brown - 1 for 10
Austin - 1 for 10
Folk - 1 for 5
Procter - 1 for 5
Observations: Watkins is the most penalized Special Teams player. Counting his defensive penalty, he cost the team 5 infractions for 60 yards. He can’t play Safety very well, and he is a liability on Special Teams. I wouldn’t be disappointed if he fails to make the 52 man roster. I don’t know what the average number of penalties for Special Teams is in the NFL, but 19 seems like a large number to me. Perhaps with a new ST Coach, this will be an area of improvement.
Final Thoughts:
The following penalties should have all been avoided .
29 - False Starts (shared by the whole team) = nearly 145 total yards
18 - Offsides, Encroachment, and Neutral Zone Infractions = nearly 95 yards
10 - Roughing the Passer, Late Hits, Taunting, and Unnecessary Roughness = nearly 150 yards
4 - Illegal Formation / Illegal Motion penalties = 20 yards
Total “mental errors” = 61 penalties for nearly 410 yards.
Wade Phillips said he wants to bring some positive changes; how about start by eliminating all these penalties due to lack of concentration. How many extra wins would we have had last year if we had been on the lower end of penalties instead of #1, on the top of the list?
Come on Wade, crack the whip!
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Interesting breakdown
what hurts even more than these numbers you listed is all of those hidden yards. The plays negated by holds and illegal procedure pentalties, which I remember Witten having a few of. I can recall so many great runs in particular that were called back, this has got to change if we are to have a chance this year.
First to six!!!
That's what ticked me off about Witten last year
Skill players like that should NEVER have a false start. That’s crazy. Of course, if that’s all I have to complain about Witten on his way to the HOF then it’s all good. LOL
There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.
thats not THAT crazy
considering witten, unlike every other skill player, plays ON THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE. He does not go out for a pass every play.
They all play on the LOS.
I guess you mean that he lines up as a blocker more??
And how many of his false starts are when he’s lined up as a blocker?? The ones that I saw were him lined up as a receiver and he just false started. That’s nuts. He still had twice as many as any other one of those skill players.
There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.
I don't understand all the intentional groundings........
does Romo not understand the rules on when to throw the ball away/and or tuck it away? It’s almost like he had the rule backwards-lol. He throws the ball and takes an intentional grounding and takes the sack when he can throw it away. Maybe he needs a refresher course on the rules? LOL
as much as it pains me, I disagree......
when he’s outside the pocket, instead of throwing the ball away, Romo has a bad habit of hanging on to the ball instead of throwing it away. Inside the pocket, he does the opposite. He either throws it up for grabs or tries to throw it away which ends up being a grounding call.
He should throw it away more that's for sure but
The intentional grounding stuff came out of nowhere. I don’t think he’d ever had an intentional grounding penalty in his career and then all of the sudden he gets four of them. I do think a couple of them were bull but he’s definitely got that to add to his “work on” list.
There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.
I agree........
I even think some of the problem was because he tried to be more Brady-like by staying in the pocket. If Romo will get back to playing his game instead of Brady’s, he’ll be much more effective.
I don't have the video in front of me, but
Here are the 4 Intentional Grounding Plays:
1) Week 3 (GB) late in the 3rd Quarter, DAL has the ball on their own 33, it is 2nd down and 15, Romo throws short to the right while being pressured by (DT) C. Jenkins. Enforced at the 33, results in a loss of 13 yards. The next down is 3rd and 28 from the D20. Three plays later the drive ends in a punt and GB starts from their own 13.
2) Also Week 3 (GB) early in the 4th Quarter, DAL has the ball on GB’s 42, it is 2nd down and 10, Romo agains throws short and to the right in the direction of P.Crayton, but was flagged for Intentional Grounding. Enforced at the G42, results in a 10 yard loss. The very next play, Romo hits M.Austin for a 52 yard TD and the Boys go up on the Pack 27-9.
3) Week 13 (Game 12 versus SEA) with 1:31 remaining in the first half, DAL has the ball at S39, 1st and 10. Romo wings the ball to deep left, and the ball hits the ground on the 11 yard line, apparently with no receiver near the ball. Enforced at the S39 in a loss of 10 yards. Three plays later the drive ends in a punt and SEA starts their drive on their own 43.
4) Week 17 (Game 16 versus PHI) early in the 4th Quarter, DAL has the ball at P26, 2nd down and 17. The score is PHI 44 – DAL 3. Romo throws short to the right, in the direction of J.Witten, but is flagged for Intentional Grounding. Enforced at the P26 for a loss of 10 yards. Two plays later Folk kicks a 42 yard Field Goal and the score is PHI 44 – DAL 6, which ends up being the final score, not only of the game, but also of the season.
I think the 2nd and 4th penalties are questionable, since Romo had a target in the area, Crayton and Witten respectively.
I agree the 2nd and 4th were terrible calls
Interesting fact is that we won 2 out of those 3 games and Philly game shouldn’t even count because that game was lost no matter how few penalties we committed that game.
In Romo we Trust
Come on Terry........
you can’t mean what you just said. “The Philly game shouldn’t even count.” It was because of pathetic play like that we lost in the first place. Why can’t you just admit that Romo needs to work on his game a little bit instead of making up excuses for him. I don’t have the statistics but I bet Bishop can look them up, how many intentional groundings did Peyton Manning have last year. I would be very surprised if Manning had 4 or Brady had 4 in 2007. Those “elite” QB’s don’t normally make those kind of mistakes. Just admit that Romo needs to cut down on those kind of mistakes.
Whether you want to admit it or not......
those are mental errors that need to be corrected.
I got news for you
the entire team didn’t show up for the Philly game and we would have lost if the team would have committed zero penalties.
I never said Romo doesn’t need to work on his game, every player in the NFL needs to work on their game or they’ll never get better, Romo would be the first person to tell you that, and so would Manning and Brady. BTW, those guys make mistakes too.
My point was most of those INT grounding calls were BS and didn’t contribute to any losses.
In Romo we Trust
whoa there nellie...........
don’t get your underwear all knotted up. We’re not talking about the whole team. We’re talking about Romo and he has a tendency of making bad mental errors concerning “intentional grounding.” It’s a part of his game that he needs to correct and needs to correct it this year BTW. For some weird reason, you think that it’s blasphemy to say anything negative about Romo. I honestly don’t understand this logic. It’s almost like you are related to him and can’t accept the truth that he makes mistakes. Just because it didn’t directly contribute to losses doesn’t mean that it didn’t effect the win/loss. It did kill drives which could have lead to points It could effect outcomes in the future if you don’t stop making those kind of mistakes. In the Philly game it did BTW. We lost the game. If you want to really get all worked up about it Terry, I can mention the play-off game against the Giants as well. He had an intentional grounding call in that as well that killed a drive. Whether you want to admit it or not, these mental mistakes will eventually lead to losses.
The QB should be the most supported guy on the team, right?
C’mon, Tex—Romo’s got game. And his game is so crazy and unique that it often overshadows the fact that he can make every throw from a 6’1" 7/8 frame. He’s got the guts and brain and scrambly legs to go with his arm, as well.
It’s surprising to me that Terry seems to be one of the lone, consistent supporters of Romo. I’m glad he does because Romo deserves to have fans that get his back, especially us supercritiquers here on BTB.
George Teague, Brock Marion, the Roy Williams-of-old: Where are you?
by Aaron Novinger on Mar 25, 2009 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Not sure that is the case
Terry isn’t the one of few Romo supporters here, but we all know he is going to step in and defend our boy Tony, so none of the rest of us feel the need to jump into these discussions. Terry does just fine by himself.
First to six!!!
Soooo...
the lassez faire approach for QB support? To me, it looks like Terry has to because the arguers and arguments against Romo far outweigh their counterparts.
Maybe everybody else just thinks that Romo-bashing is useless and not worth warranting debate. It makes me wonder what it would be like if Internet blogging were as prevalent in the 90s.
I’m just pissed today because I’ve been asked about stupid Cutler 3 too many times.
George Teague, Brock Marion, the Roy Williams-of-old: Where are you?
by Aaron Novinger on Mar 25, 2009 1:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Biggrigga,.....
I’m not trying to pick on Romo, but all I was commenting on the thread above is that is a part of his game that he needs to work on. Sorry, but I don’t think that Romo is perfect, nor is any player. IMO, he needs to work on some of his mental mistakes like intentional grounding. I was responding to the post above where he had 4 of them last year. Just because someone says something that some may view as “critical or unfair” does not make them any less of a fan of that player. I guess I can’t say anything remotely perceived as critical without some people viewing that as not being a fan.
thats not true
you can be critical of any player, including Romo, I have no problem with that, but what I do have a problem with is harping on the same criticism over and over, as if nobody on this knows on this blog that Romo needs to improve in mental mistakes. Of course, he does, but why does it have to be mentioned a thousand times?
It’s obvious you don’t think Romo is perfect and neither do I, but sometimes it seems as if you and others expect him to be perfect.
In Romo we Trust
Terry......,...
reread the post. It is about penalties and Romo committed 4 intentional grounding ones. Listen, there’s a lot more wrong with this team than Romo. I was commenting on the penalties. Ya wanna talk about Witten’s illegal procedures-Go for it. Talk about it. You always wanna say “Romo’s the leader” well if he’s the leader he’s gotta cut down on the penalties. End of discussion
and all I said was the penalties you mentioned
were bad calls, which is my opinion. Just like I feel most of the offsides on Ware are BS calls as well.
In Romo we Trust
No worries.
Our QB is young and still relatively new to being the starter. It seems like he’s been through alot during his tenure, though. Even by sitting on the bench and being developed for years, he still didn’t get the kind of attention a draft pick would have received. What he has accomplished so far—none of us could have predicted. And he still has that moxie that ignored Parcells’ playcall in that preseason game in Oakland when he call his own # on a QB sneak over the goalline.
George Teague, Brock Marion, the Roy Williams-of-old: Where are you?
by Aaron Novinger on Mar 25, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Bigrigga......
while we’re talking about penalties etc. the other thing that needs to be worked on is Barber’s fumbles. For some reason, he fumbled more last year than in previous years. Part of the problem was he was trying to get extra yardage, taking vicious hits. In other words, his style of play can lend itself to more fumbles. This offense has the potential to be very explosive but our leaders like Romo,Barber,RW,Witten have to step up to the plate and cut down on their mental errors.
MB3 shouldn't change his style of running
and really fumbling by a RB isn’t mental, but just the mechanics of holding the football, ie Tiki Barber.
In Romo we Trust
Terry.....re-read.......
I never said he should change his running style. I said that his running style does lend itself to the possibility of creating more fumbles. i love Barber. In fact, my son has his jersey and two Barber t-shirts. :You, as usual, are missing the point. If this team wants to take it to the next level, they need to cut down on penalties and turn-overs. Whether that’s Romo,Witten,Barber,Ware etc. it doesn’t matter. If you always make excuses for players, they will never get any better.
I'm not making excuses
I just don’t expect perfection. Players will commit TOs and penalties and it’s easy to say well they have to reduce those, but it’s the same thing as a clergyman telling his congregation that have to commit less sins, much easier said than done.
Players are human and they aren’t committing penalties and TOs on purpose, so as long as they’re giving their best, I see those things as just part of the game.
In Romo we Trust
So let's see here.....
you’re saying that there’s 10 sec. left in the game and you’re on the 1 yd. line about to score when you fumble. That’s okay because it’s part of the game? Totally disagree on that one. I’m not so naive to think that players don’t make mistakes but do you want to win it all or just keep making excuses as to “it’s just part of the game.” At some point, you have to recognize problems to correct them. If you always focus on everything’s wonderful then you can never get better-you become mediocre.
I never said TOs were okay
but they are part of the game and are inevitable whether you want to believe it or not.
TOs are just part of the game, just like errors are part of baseball. We’re dealing with human beings, not machines who never make mistakes.
Warners INT cost the Cards the SB but I highly doubt Cards fans are throwing him under the bus the way Cowboys fans would.
In Romo we Trust
where in the heck are you getting....
this crap? Talk about going over-board-sheesh. Get your lawyer hat off Terry. I’m making two simple statements: (1) Romo needs to work on intentiional grounding errors and (2) Barber needs to work on protecting the football better. Don’t turn this into something more. Two simple facts. You’re making a mountain out of a mole-hill.
tell me this
whats the difference between Romo taking a sack or getting an INT grounding call?
I don’t see a difference myself because most sacks take place about 10 yards behind the LOS, plus the sack could lead into a fumble as well which is actually worse.
In Romo we Trust
well......
2 reasons (1) depending on where the int grounding is, it can result in a safety (2) if the QB is more than 10 yds. behind the line of scrimmage, the penalty will be 10 yds. from the spot of the foul plus loss of down. Because you won’t believe me, check this link out:http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-intentional-grounding.htm
Terry....
why do you have to make an issue of every little thing. Romo needs to watch the intentional grounding and Barber needs to hang on to the ball better. If you want to go around justifying for mistakes, go right ahead. Winners don’t accept mistakes. They learn from them and try to get better. Do players make mistakes? Of course they do. The only way to get better is to work on your mistakes. If you want to justify errors then live in a bubble.
That was Barber's problem his first year in the league.
I think I was listening to Mickey Spagnola one day and he was saying that Parcells had talked about how MB3 wouldn’t play much until he learned to hold onto the ball. He had 3 fumbles in limited playing time his rookie year. This year the problem cropped up again. I think with the kind of person MB3 is he’ll dedicate himself to trying to fix this problem.
There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.
thank you kameleon.....
well said. Man I can’t say anything without some people jumping on me can I-LOL? BTW, if you look at my earlier post, which some people (wink-wink) don’t read you will see that I said that his running style lends itself to the possibility of more fumbles.
Yup.
That’s why BP had MB3 takin’ the ball everywhere he went—on & off the field. He’s done that before, so he can do it again.
George Teague, Brock Marion, the Roy Williams-of-old: Where are you?
by Aaron Novinger on Mar 26, 2009 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions
He'll limit those.
He knows he doesn’t have to be the only guy now. He’ll be kept fresh so he can continue to run hard. Maybe he can hang out with TE Coach Garrett and Bennett for a while.
George Teague, Brock Marion, the Roy Williams-of-old: Where are you?
by Aaron Novinger on Mar 25, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Bigrigga,.....
I believe you are right. I love Barber btw.
Barber = low and tight?
"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
don't use the Giants playoff game as an example
that was probably the worse call I’ve seen an official make.
BTW, I never said Romo doesn’t make mistakes or doesn’t need to improve upon them, I defend him because you and a few others are just quick to always harp on his mistakes over and over.
All players make mistakes, why you always single out Romo I’ll never know.
In Romo we Trust
Ware is TOO fast
I remember a couple of the Offsides calls on Ware were BS calls. On the replay it was clearly visible he went either half a beat after the snap or with the snap. He had the snap count down pat. The problem is he’s so damn fast the refs throw the flag because how can a guy be around the tackle before the tackle even gets out of his stance without being offsides?
That's True
And if you remember, Charles Haley was the SAME WAY! Coach JJ said that he let Haley get away with some of his offsides calls because he didn’t want him to get off the ball slowly and miss the pressures and sacks. Ditto to WARE!
Hopefully the refs take that into account.
Yes, after viewing the replays we all can see he just moved with the snap of the ball. Maybe he’s saying his alligators too fast, as well.
George Teague, Brock Marion, the Roy Williams-of-old: Where are you?
by Aaron Novinger on Mar 24, 2009 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes Sir...
You have made one of the most important posts so far this off-season. You can’t win football games when you’re loosing ground because of penalties. In this game of inches, we gave up 952 yds. That’s more yards than Barberran for. That is just absolutely pathetic. As for Ware, he’s just too good and I will gladly take the penalties he gets for being that good. He should’ve been the Defensive Player of the Year and the MVP.
"Attitude reflects leadership." - Remember The Titans
Oline/TEs and special teams are worst offenders
Special teams may be on there way to being fixed with the new ST coach.
The oline is the big issue imo. How many times is our offense put in long yardage situations by bad penalties? How many times by guys just blowing their assignments or gurode snapping early? This group was very good in 07 pass blocking, but there were quite a few games in 08 where they struggled. On top of that, there are 10 TE penalties.
Defensively, I think the offsides penalties disproportionally came in short yardage situations that led to first downs(at least I remember a few of them). It seems ware may be too fast for his own good – the refs can’t make an accurate call when you time it as well as ware does.
+1
5 yards sounds so meager now, but it’s huge when we’re at 3rd and short or even just when the offense is in a good rhythm.
George Teague, Brock Marion, the Roy Williams-of-old: Where are you?
by Aaron Novinger on Mar 26, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions
+1 Big Rigga.......
smart teams don’t make dumb penalties-dumb teams do. It doesn’t matter how much physical “talent” a team has, if they keep making the same mental errors. I’ll take a good smart team over a talented penalty prone team any day. Odds are that the smart team will end up winning in the long run because they are disciplined. Good example is the Cowboys vs. Giants playoff game 2007.
That was one thing that always bothered me about Parcells
He would always say that he didn’t coach penalties. The last few years, regardless of coach, I’ve felt that they weren’t doing enough to fix this penalty problems. Of course, maybe it’s just more that we have stupid players.
There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.
that does seem to be the same constant......
the same players with two different coaches doing the same stupid penalties right?
Sorry
Asking Winnie the Coach to be a Grizzly Bear?
Nope. Not going to happen…
"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Oh, bother...
George Teague, Brock Marion, the Roy Williams-of-old: Where are you?
by Aaron Novinger on Mar 28, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
If he won't do it, then he needs to make his assistants his hitmen, because the
penalties were out of hand, and have been for years.
Campo and Grantham are anything but quiet guys.
We’ll probably hear more from them this year.
George Teague, Brock Marion, the Roy Williams-of-old: Where are you?
by Aaron Novinger on Mar 30, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
If he was 35-45, maybe, but he is nearing the end of his coaching career...
He’s not going to change.
Anyone who has ever led a large organization knows that it is a thousand times harder to tighten the screws once you have created a lax environment than it is to loosen them once you have created a rigorous, disciplined culture.
I’m sorry, but as much as we want to believe it can happen, I see nothing objective to support the possibility and fully expect a coaching “house cleaning” after this next season.
"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Nothing drove me crazier last season than the penalties; they
were the clearest indicator of the lack of discipline on this team. This should be intolerable to the coaches, and it irritated the hell out of me to watch WP on the sidelines after those penalties looking sort of confused and slightly annoyed. He should have been furious and up in these guys’ faces after some of the boneheaded things they did.
One thing though: as someone else pointed out above, I think Ware got some bad flags because he’s just that quick, and the refs were a little too automatic penalizing him.
The guys who committ the most penalties are the vets, the key players on this team.
What good would it do for Wade to get in their face? You think that’s gonna prevent Flo from false starting? It’s long been his achilles heel. Witten hits himself in the head every time he messes up. Ware is just too fast. TNew is out on his island. Ratliff didn’t get off the field much and when he did Tank nearly equal his penalty numbers.
I can see the coaches getting on rookies, guys they’ve drafted or guys who are underperforming (Watkins, Carp), but Wade would rather take a look at what the vet is doing wrong, so they can fix it together. Blowing up is not his forte, so why ask that from him? There are as many coaches out there who don’t blow up as there are who do.
Some of the calls are bad and some are just player error. For this team, I feel that they are always playing extremely intense—no matter how cupcake the camp is. The intensity and passion to make up for guys lost to injury last year got the best of them. They overthought and overreacted to make up ground. They were getting beat and beating themselves. It’s a wonder they even finished over .500 with the schedule that turned out the way it did.
George Teague, Brock Marion, the Roy Williams-of-old: Where are you?
by Aaron Novinger on Mar 30, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
We disagree. I don't think a generalization can be made that all of these
guys are playing with intensity and passion, and I believe that this apparent commitment to improve the discipline on the team is an indication that the owner and coaches don’t feel that way either. I also disagree that getting in someone’s face when they do something stupid doesn’t work. The coaches have to figure out who needs it and who doesn’t, but I think it’s clear that some of the players, vets and newbies alike, could use some verbal (and maybe financial) lashing.
Then do you suggest benching a guy like Flo?
I’m all for seeing what Free is about, but not in the middle of a game just because Flo false starts in the 1st Qtr.
I agree with you that the assistants should be ensuring that their respective players be cognizant of committing penalties. Judging by Bishop’s stats for last year, this is one reason we have a new ST coach. Also, that ol’ OL coach should feel the pressure of his group to limit these mistakes.
As far as Wade and Garrett go, they will have their hands full as is with game planning. They can say “let’s limit mental mistakes” until they’re blue in the face, but it’s the position coaches who manage the fundamentals.
George Teague, Brock Marion, the Roy Williams-of-old: Where are you?
by Aaron Novinger on Mar 30, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
If I thought they had someone behind him who could do the job? You bet. It's
not like players who aren’t doing well aren’t benched by other teams (see Donovan McNabb). And if Coach Cupcake can’t yell, then I’m fine with position coaches doing it.
Honestly, I can't wait until we have a new LT.
I love what Flo has brought in the past, but I really need to see a solid year out of him this year.
George Teague, Brock Marion, the Roy Williams-of-old: Where are you?
by Aaron Novinger on Mar 30, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions
By the way, the Cowboys' problem with penalties isn't new, and isn't just a function
of over-thinking and overreacting to injuries last year.
Fernie.....
you are making good points which makes me wonder how does Belichek treat his players when they make mistakes? I don’t know. Usually you just see him looking stoic on the sidelines but what is he really like during the week? Just wondering
He probaly threatens to make them wear his old, ratty hoodies throughout the week.
George Teague, Brock Marion, the Roy Williams-of-old: Where are you?
by Aaron Novinger on Mar 30, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
and bring in an ol' wily vet to replace them
George Teague, Brock Marion, the Roy Williams-of-old: Where are you?
by Aaron Novinger on Mar 30, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions
So are the penalties a result of the generalization that the team is not disciplined or smart enough to prevent them?
That too is a generalization, just as expecting every coach to be Bill Cowher is.
Parcells’ teams were pretty heavily penalized, too; and he was a tough SOB.
George Teague, Brock Marion, the Roy Williams-of-old: Where are you?
by Aaron Novinger on Mar 30, 2009 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I want to see the penalties drop too but
these are the same players that didn’t listen to Parcells either. I don’t honestly know what will work but something has to be tried.
There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.
Flo is the obvious one. That problem won't change until the starting LT does.
Watkins and Carp are a bad training camp away from being cut.
Ware and Witten are at the top of their positions in the NFL, so we give and take there.
I can live with Ratliff’s 5, but Ellis’ 4 are a bit much. He’s in a contract year, though.
The penalties that are really scary are the pass intereferance ones, and I think Campo has done an excellent job in preparing his group.
George Teague, Brock Marion, the Roy Williams-of-old: Where are you?
by Aaron Novinger on Mar 30, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions
My problem with Flo is that
I understand he’s hard of hearing in his right ear but I’ve heard he refuses to get an implant which would help him.
I don’t understand the PI penalties. I think I remember one that was on Newman, it was one of the games that Madden was announcing, that I thought was really bogus. I remember Madden talking about how that was his first PI penalty since 2006. I think if he’s healthy he’ll drop those.
There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.
What I don't understand is.........
it seems like some games a lot of guys are just totally unfocused, doing stupid mental mistakes. They all come in clusters like the Philly game. Everyone is playing flat, uninspired etc. What is the cause of this? Do the players just not want to play or why are they so mentally unprepared. Is that a coaching issue or the players?
I used to think it was a coaching issue.
Remember Parcell’s last year?? How disinterested the players seemed in some big games?? I saw too much of that last year with Wade too. Maybe these players are just too stupid to motivate.
There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.
I agree Kameleon....
remember how Spears trash talked about Parcells after he left saying that he was too ridgid? Now some of these guys that said things about Parcells are saying that they are not being held accountable. My question is: which is it? You can’t have it both ways. It’s very much like a lot of motivational speakers always say, “if you want change, you have to change.” In other words, look inside before you start pointing fingers at everybody else. IMO, they have all lost responsibility for themselves. Wasn’t Brady James one of the ones that criticized Parcells too? Now, he says that everyone needs to be accountable for themselves and Wade is too soft.
When I was younger, I resented my mom more because she was more disciplinary.
But I took advantage of my dad because he was too leniant.
Different players respond to different types of coaching. In high school, I hated when the Oline coach would run the conditioning drills because he yelled more than the DB/WR coach—who was mild mannered.
The trick is to keep the players as students of the game, no matter what year vet they are. That doesn’t mean yell in their face, fine them, or make them do push-ups. None of this will cease the penalties. They all just have to do their best to prevent making them. Then, this team can concentrate on success.
George Teague, Brock Marion, the Roy Williams-of-old: Where are you?
by Aaron Novinger on Mar 30, 2009 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Makes me wonder how many "new" rules the guys will break--like that wedgie one.
George Teague, Brock Marion, the Roy Williams-of-old: Where are you?
by Aaron Novinger on Mar 30, 2009 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Smart? I never said that. But most of the penalties are pretty much the result
of a lack of discipline or a lack of ability (if someone can’t cover a receiver, they might hold because they can’t stop them any other way). Some committed by rookies are lack of experience. A few, like a couple of the grounding calls on Romo or some of the offsides on Ware, are bad calls. But yes, most show a lack of discipline. There…I de-generalized. A well-disciplined team does not become the most-penalized group in the NFL.
And it was absolutely a problem under Parcells, too. Maybe some of them are just plain can’t be disciplined. Wouldn’t bode well for the future , would it?
I was responding more to your word choices "stupid" and boneheaded.
Can you really imagine Wade getting in a guy’s face? It’s just not his style. And because the penalties occured with Parcells, then “Camp Cupcake” is not the cause of the players’ errors.
We can speculate, but really there is no excuse for leading the league in penalties. It’s just plain sloppy and you can expect to win when you have over 100 yards in penalties or accumulate double-digit infractions in a single game.
George Teague, Brock Marion, the Roy Williams-of-old: Where are you?
by Aaron Novinger on Mar 30, 2009 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions
you can'T expect to win
Seriously, today is my typo day.
George Teague, Brock Marion, the Roy Williams-of-old: Where are you?
by Aaron Novinger on Mar 30, 2009 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Smart people sometimes do boneheaded, stupid things. I have no idea
what these guys’ IQs are.
One thing we agree on for sure: there’s no excuse for the level of sloppiness the Cowboys have been guilty of the past several years.
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