Jerry Jones makes the hard decision; T.O. had to go
Jerry Jones is an owner and a GM who is known throughout the NFL for making bold moves. Sometimes, those moves involve bringing in a player or two who other franchises have discarded for off-the-field transgressions relating to the law or the locker room. In an admission that this philosophy doesn't always work, Jones has turned out Terrell Owens, deeming his services no longer central to the Cowboys quest for a sixth Super Bowl.
More after the jump.
When the rumors first surfaced years ago that the Cowboys were interested in signing T.O. after the mess in Philadelphia, I was against it. I loved T.O.'s talent and ability but I didn't like his attitude. The Cowboys were in the middle of a rebuilding project under Bill Parcells and I didn't want a loose cannon in the locker room no matter how talented. Still, once the deed went down, I climbed on board like I always do and rooted for the player with the star on his helmet. To my surprise, T.O. was not a distraction in any serious way for the first couple of years. I even took to calling him a Pod Person because he seemed such a changed man. I found myself defending him to outsiders who still had the image of the old T.O. in their minds. It truly looked like this reclamation project was going to work and that T.O.'s legacy would be rescued in Dallas. Not his on-the-field legacy, which is undeniable, but his off-the-field legacy, which was always suspect.
Alas, it wasn't to be.
I will say that T.O. hasn't been near the problem in Dallas that he was in Philly - that situation got out of hand quickly. That episode was like a small fire that instantly accelerated into a house-burner. But you could feel the heat building in Dallas over the last year and Jerry the Fireman (you can add that to his titles) decided to play Smokey the Bear and prevent a forest fire. Owens was starting to question how he was used on a regular basis; questioning the play-calling, his touches, and most of all, the fact that if the Cowboys wanted to win they needed to use him more and more. The problem with that is not if it's true or not, some of it was true. No, the issue is when you start doing it publicly you start bringing other teammates over to your side and it soon becomes OK for anybody to start questioning the coaches abilities. By definition, when you say you deserve more touches you are saying someone else deserves fewer touches. Even if you don't name names, it's what you're saying. This is the genesis of dividing a locker room. It's the genesis of undermining the coaches. It's the genesis of locker room chaos.
Don't get confused here; dumping T.O. is not some kind of all cure-all elixir that will make everything just fine at Valley Ranch. He was hardly the only issue an under-achieving Cowboys team is dealing with. There's no denying his on-the-field production will be missed unless Jason Garrett can figure out a way to better use the playmakers he still has, something he failed to do well last year. Do I sound just like T.O. with that last statement? Sort of. But I don't play for the team and I'm not going to influence one thing that goes on at the Ranch. That's the benefit of being an outsider, I can say whatever I want and it doesn't mean a thing. On the other hand, if you are part of a team and you can influence the relationships that occur inside the facility, you have to be more circumspect about the way you express your opinions. That is a lesson T.O. never learned.
The idea that somehow the media made Jerry do this is laughable. Jerry, while being quite media-savvy and always examining how the Cowboys are viewed by the outside world, is not going to dump a player of T.O.'s talent because of the media. Seriously, this idea is not even plausible. Equally absurd in my eyes is the idea that T.O. was the victim of a media witch-hunt; that they were just making up stories about the guy because they didn't like him. Sure they exaggerated stuff, they focused on the negative and relentlessly pounded stories for ratings; but they didn't make stuff up out of whole cloth. There was always a core truth beneath the surface. That's the problem with T.O., after a while, he grates on teammates and some are no longer able to fully embrace him and sides must be chosen. The evidence is clear, this has happened now on three different teams.
I'll have a companion piece on this later talking about the issues this creates for the Cowboys on the field. Obviously Owens was a focal point of opposing defenses and it's now up to Jason Garrett and company to try and figure out how to function without T.O. in the lineup.
But on a pure off-the-field, chemistry-in-the-locker room basis, the Cowboys made the right move. The distractions, real or perceived, needed to go. Jerry Jones made the right call.
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142 comments
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Comments
Good Riddance pal...
It was fun watchin’ you blow folks up while it lasted…
by Starred4Life on Mar 5, 2009 11:29 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Whoops, that first one was aimed at SS Roy Williams...
But T.O.’s production—even with all the drops—and the attention he commanded from defenses is going to be hard to replace.
But like you said Grizz, it was probably the right move chemistry-wise, which, in the end, is an area of much more need than offensive numbers are for this team.
by Starred4Life on Mar 5, 2009 11:34 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
My only question is
who is the number 2 wr now. Williams is the number 1. Crayton is better suited to be the the number 3. I know how high some of you are on Austin but I really don’t want to start the season hoping that he stays healthy and develops into a good wr. I know that Torry Holt is seeking his release from the Rams and I think that he could come in an be a solid wr for a few years.
by jack dein on Mar 5, 2009 11:35 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
no way
they could afford him, I dont think. Not if you want to resign Ware.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by what_the_crap on Mar 5, 2009 11:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice post Grizz,
But I’ve been arguing those exact points over multiple TO threads and there’s a whole bunch who simply don’t want to hear it.
Three professional football teams have sacked Terrell Owens for character related issues.
Terrell Owens being an unstable personality is the common denominator.
by Luke. on Mar 5, 2009 11:38 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
He wasn't sacked for character issues.
He was sacked because he wouldn’t keep his me first mouth shut. Let’s see what kind of B.S. Crayton lets come out of his pie hole now. Lesson to the players, keep your trap shut and play like it is your last day in the league.
When did I become a Cowboy fan? When my mom told me I was.
by GunsUp on Mar 5, 2009 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Guess we're having a definition disagreement,
Character: "The combination of qualities or features that distinguishes one person, group, or thing from another"
I would regard someone who continually talks himself into trouble and consistently criticizers teammates and coaches as someone who has character issues.
by Luke. on Mar 5, 2009 12:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I definition disagree all the time.
I was going to finish by agreeing with you then something shiny came along. Sorry for the confusion.
When did I become a Cowboy fan? When my mom told me I was.
by GunsUp on Mar 5, 2009 12:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
another thing to add.....
we’ve all known how bad our special teams have been……with a wr line up of …RW..Crayton…and Austin…with stanback and hurd backing..do we want crayton as PR,or stanbach? What about Scandrick? he’s more important now on D….should we bring in a vet wr or another corner so we can leave a guy as a returner?
"Let me tell you sumthin' son ! an ass whippin' hurts no matter what kinda shape your in ! " Stone Cold Steve Austin
by jerryw on Mar 5, 2009 11:40 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Aye Curumba I can't believe I didn't know until 11:40am today
It’s Miles Austin Time. Man it is never slow in Cowboys Land.
TO and Thong gone
by AustonianAggie on Mar 5, 2009 11:42 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hallelujah!
TO lost my support when he did the controversial interview with Deion right before the Pittsburgh game. That proved to me that he put himself above the team. You don’t go bitch about your touches in the media right before a huge game down the stretch. Not to mention that he had 213 yds receiving just two weeks before.
We need to transform this offense into a power running team, using our 3 talented backs, two talented TEs and massive o-line. That takes pressure off Romo and should cut down his turnovers. Roy W doesn’t need to replace TO, just provide a solid possession receiver with a red zone presence. Austin will hopefully replace some of the big plays that TO provided. Crayton comes in as the savvy 3rd receiver to work the middle.
This team needed to be shook up. Bye Tank, Pac and TO and all the bs. Thong and his complaining and finger pointing are gone as well. Today is the first step in rebuilding the Cowboys.
by cowboysuberfan on Mar 5, 2009 11:43 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
+1
You’re right.
When Ptt won thier 5th SB in 2005 they were pounding the rock.
Hines Ward played the part by being a possession reciever.
Draft Wish List:
1.) SS
2.) NT
3.) O-LIne
4.) Speedy Reciever or Linebacker
by Prime-Time on Mar 5, 2009 11:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Who's Ellis going to cry to now?
I don’t think he ever called the coaches out, but he does worry about a lot of stuff he shouldn’t.
When did I become a Cowboy fan? When my mom told me I was.
by GunsUp on Mar 5, 2009 11:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why all the Ellis-bashing
We know he complains and worries. But the man works his ass off. He became an OLB 10 years into a successful career as a D-Lineman. He put up decent sack numbers last year spending the majority of his time covering the flat. More importantly, who is going to rush the passer opposite Ware? We don’t have anybody close to Ellis’s skill. Spencer??? LOL. He’s been a bust so far and the way he balooned all last season isn’t encouraging. We need Ellis until we find a real replacement.
by JimmyJohnson on Mar 5, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not really bashing
Ellis so much, as all the players who couldn’t see their way clear to keep their player issues in the Locker room. It’s just that Ellis and Crayton are the only ones left that I can recall having me first press clippings.
When did I become a Cowboy fan? When my mom told me I was.
by GunsUp on Mar 5, 2009 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i wouldn't go as far to say spencers been a bust so far...
he’s been injured… he def hasn’t lived up to expectations though
by CowboysFan4Life on Mar 5, 2009 12:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if I'd consider him a bust...
He’s been eased onto the field, but he plays significantly, plus this is only year 3 for him.
Dallas makes me act like Christian Bale......
by AirforceBat on Mar 5, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ellis
moaned about his role, but he didn’t really tear down anyone else in the process.
But the TO message is clear to all: Become too big a pain in the azz, and Mister Jones will hand you your walking papers.
Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.
by OskieOskie on Mar 5, 2009 2:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Heck Yeah!
Yes, yes yes…emphasize drafting some O linemen to pressure for playing time and safeguard against injury, and POUND THE ROCK! Teams would kill for three backs with such complimentary skill sets. Plus, this will take pressure off of Romo to put the game on his shoulders.
This is a huge sigh of relief for me…huge.
I have noticed a new resurgence in Cowboy hating in 2007, which can only mean one thing- We're back.
by nspirals on Mar 5, 2009 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gag Order
Sorry I may have posted this on the previous column.
Does anyone know what was said on ESPN Radio with T Newman?
I heard that Newman told the radio how T.O. and Witten got into a fist fight last year.
by Prime-Time on Mar 5, 2009 11:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Newman
Needs to shut his yap. He’s gotten a bigger mouth ever since he got a bigger paycheck.
Everything's looking up, Milhouse!
by accidental innuendo on Mar 5, 2009 11:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
still TO and Witten fighting is big news - bigger that their impromptu press confrences
after beating the Giants. I wouldn’t be suprised to see Ellis get cut in what seems to be a youth push. This definitely puts the mantle of leadership on Romo
by AustonianAggie on Mar 5, 2009 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My money
goes on Witten in that matchup. Every time.
Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.
by OskieOskie on Mar 5, 2009 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Leopards don't lose their spots...
Sure… Jerry finally seems to get it this year. He’s now rid the locker room of malcontents, whiners, troubled cast-offs from other teams, and aging stars who can longer get it done on the field. He also resisted the siren song of the huge FA signings.
Whether or not media or fan outcry played a role in his decisions is debatable.
While all of this is positive, one can only wonder when Jerry will revert to his risk-taking, free wheeling days. Just look at The Danny. Last year, he apparently was through with trying to win the Super Bowl through FA acquisitions in the offseason. He had learned from the error of his mistakes. How long did that last? One year. Now he’s back to siging Stompworth and the whole gammut of over priced prizes.
I’ll give it one year — two at most. Jerry’s a wildcatter at heart. He’ll revert to his ways soon enough.
by Boundforbeach on Mar 5, 2009 11:51 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Always the level headed analysis I expect from Grizz
Good work
by quincyyyyy on Mar 5, 2009 11:51 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Cowboys Visiting With Igor Olshansky Today and Tomorrow!!
Seal that deal Jerry!!
by Luke. on Mar 5, 2009 11:54 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
It was time.
RW…. he clearly wasn’t the enforcer that we needed him to be. Once he lost that aspect of his game, his liability in coverage wasn’t something that we could look past. I’m truly glad we are moving forward without him. His finger pointing and not taking responsibility for his play really wasn’t what I expected out of a qb for the defense. Waiting this long for his release tells me we couldn’t find any takers. That should tell us a lot. Good luck Roy.
TO…..Very good post Grizz.
Personally I hate to lose TO’s on field productivity, but it was time for him to go. I honestly believe that we will be better off in the long run for doing this. There were several times this past season that Romo forced the ball to him when others were wide open. I believe Romo felt pressured to get TO touches. That pressure eliminated will help Romo.
I know that there are those that will say that teams will now play 8-9 in the box and we are in trouble. Perhaps they will at times, but when teams play that way, they will be taking chances of giving up big plays. Teams around the league do more with a lot less at WR. Yes Garrett had a bad year, but how much of that was Garrett and Romo trying to get TO the ball? We have skilled players and now we can utilize them more. How depressing was it for a player to run his route and be open, only to see the ball go to TO who’s double covered. Frustration starts to mount and players start to not play at full speed because they won’t get the ball even if they’re open because they knew the ball was going to be forced to TO. As Grizz pointed out, TO was fine the first two years, then came the request by TO to get him the ball more. Garrett was doing fine running the offense when TO didn’t put that pressure on them. Coincedence? Maybe, guess we’ll find out.
I’m still in favor of getting OL (Duke Robinson), DL and a SS. We don’t need a stud WR at this time. Defense’s typically win championships. We need to shore up these two posistions in the draft. The big uglies in the trenches and a SS would help this team bigtime.
by T Zig on Mar 5, 2009 12:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I couldn't agree more with your comment
You nailed it.
Feb. 27 -- Veteran free agency signing period begins. Trading period begins.
April 25-26 -- NFL Draft
by APerfectStar on Mar 5, 2009 8:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was and remained 50/50
Wish I had strong feeling either way… instead it’s like I’m in a life raft in the ocean, watching the waves roll in every direction
Good things: This is 100% Tony Romo’s team; it’s good to put the franchise in the hands of the QB.
Bad thing: TO is a great player, and I wanted to see his career redeemed as a Cowboy
by AustonianAggie on Mar 5, 2009 12:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Where's CowboysRnumba1?
I wanted his opinion about he goings on today
by cow_fanatic on Mar 5, 2009 12:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
can't you guess?
his opinion in a nutshell: $#$!% Jerry Jones!!!
by greatwhitenorth on Mar 5, 2009 12:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's what happens
when you talk in absolutes without objectivity.
by cow_fanatic on Mar 5, 2009 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
probably popping prozacks like tic tacs right now.....
That was his boy…..sweared he would never get cut this year..
by Boyzfan94 on Mar 5, 2009 12:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
TO
Cowboys | Salary cap ramifications of Owens’ release
Wed, 04 Mar 2009 23:59:04 -0800
Clarence E. Hill, Jr., of The Fort Worth Star-Telegram, reports WR Terrell Owens will count $9.675 million in dead money against the Dallas Cowboys’ salary cap in 2009, but they will only lose $680,000 in actual cap money. The team saves $3.1 million in real dollars because he will not receive a June 1 roster bonus. He was previously set to cost the team $8.995 million against the cap
by Boyzfan94 on Mar 5, 2009 12:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Browns out also
And another one joins the "we don’t want T.O." parade.
The latest team to join the Anti-T.O. list, per our own John Taylor of CFT, is the Cleveland Browns.
by Boyzfan94 on Mar 5, 2009 12:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Boyzfan94
Please include links to these stories when posting them on the blog. Thanks.
by Dave Halprin on Mar 5, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Quick question...
Is there an easier way to post a link to a story that re-typing the entire web address?
by Boundforbeach on Mar 5, 2009 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Copy the web address
hit the link icon, it’s the fifth icon from the left after Bold, Italic, Strike-thru and Blockquote, paste in the address and you’re good to go.
by Dave Halprin on Mar 5, 2009 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it's a wash salary cap wise...
it saves the Cowboys real cash, but not cap cash. And shouldn’t the actual cash savings be higher? Not only do they not have to pay his roster bonus, but they don’t have to pay him a salary either, right?
by DannyWhite on Mar 5, 2009 12:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
it is bnot even close to a wash this is a financial disater. 9.6 million in dead money cash doesn't matter to the salary cap we will be paying 9 million against the cap whether he played or not
Don't believe everything you think.
Your causes are cute!!!
by stoproyce on Mar 5, 2009 12:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Disaster is a tad strong,
don’t you think? This isn’t like the late 90s when the 30% of the Cowboys cap space was consumed by dead money. This is $9M of dead money out of $127M. That’s 7. Clearly, Jerral felt the loss of 7 of his cap space was worth ridding the team of the TO Experience.
by DannyWhite on Mar 5, 2009 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No not at all. i believe this was a financial clusterf^7( of a move. i get the chemistry comments and all but don't buy it. Its not like he cut all the other whiners just the one with the best production.
Newman is still here, Roy is still here, Ellis is still here, Crayton is still here, now Hurd is starting to talk. Anyway you look at it its 7 million that we cannot spend on someone who could contribute. i am reminded of one of Glory’s stories from earlier. Be sure Mr. Jones be very sure and if you are gonna change the culture you better clean house not just do the dishes.
Don't believe everything you think.
Your causes are cute!!!
by stoproyce on Mar 5, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hurd is starting to talk?
What did he say that lumps him in the whiner category with Greg Ellis and Patrick Crayton?
by AikmanNailedMySis on Mar 5, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ill find it saw it earlier this morning
Don't believe everything you think.
Your causes are cute!!!
by stoproyce on Mar 5, 2009 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow if that's it, then it's absolutely ridiculous to call him a whiner.
He said the direction of the offense is up to the offensive coordinator and we’ll see what happens…Seems pretty cookie-cutter to me.
by AikmanNailedMySis on Mar 5, 2009 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
still paying , the player not playing.
Don't believe everything you think.
Your causes are cute!!!
by stoproyce on Mar 5, 2009 12:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
We’ll have to wait and see is this was the correct action, I hope it is, but I think Wade and Garret aren’t the best options to run this team. But NOW I want to see Romo play like he cares ! he is not Aikman, but come on, show some respect to the fans and be a Dallas Cowboys QB !
by farawayfan66 on Mar 5, 2009 12:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
That was quick. Mediots now attacking RW (the receiver)
Don Banks (on SI.com) just posted an article attributing the following quote to an anonymous Cowboys source, to wit:
"But I’ll tell you one thing right now: He [Williams] isn’t going to replace No. 81. He can’t run like 81. I hope he does. I hope I’m wrong. But not many can run like 81. Time will tell. We’re about to find out what Roy Williams can do.’’
These guys are unbelievable
by Boundforbeach on Mar 5, 2009 12:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't find that all that bad.
Whoever it is is pretty much right. Now, I think Williams is good enough to replace the kind of production we got from TO this year, but not last year. And he isn’t as strong a runner as TO (example: dragging guys into the endzone in the San Fran game).
That being said, I don’t think Roy is going to be asked to replace TO’s role. To me, cutting TO is a sign that we will be running more often. In an offense like the one we’ve been using (pass to set up the run) you need two legitimate playmakers at receiver. If we’re running more of a ball control, play action offense. A solid guy like Roy and a deep threat like Austin can get it done. That’s my two cents anyway.
"When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time." -Max McGee
by BigDinSC on Mar 5, 2009 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah... not too bad
But I can already feel the drumbeat starting. The media loves to play Dallas in the villain role. Last year, it was easy. Pacman and T.O. All things that are wrong with football today, etc… With no apparent bad guys on the team, they’re going to need a new angle this year…
by Boundforbeach on Mar 5, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i hear that
"When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time." -Max McGee
by BigDinSC on Mar 5, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good article Grizz
Dallas makes me act like Christian Bale......
by AirforceBat on Mar 5, 2009 12:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I hate the move
but I’m a Cowboys fan first and foremost. Hopefully Roy Wi11ams can replace T.O.’s production.
by bryangene on Mar 5, 2009 1:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
We didn't see it at all last year
or much in Roy’s career, but he’s been at times an indomitable force. He can do it, and Miles Austin can be an elite #2… I’m still holding out for Miles to be a #1… but Roy Williams, if he shows up, he can dominate
by AustonianAggie on Mar 5, 2009 1:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
"If He Shows Up"
I don’t watch college football, so I did not see him play at Texas, and I like professional football, so I don’t watch the Lions, so I am not familiar with Roy Williams career, but it makes me a bit nervous that “if he shows up” (or a similar phrase) is always used to describe him
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
by Seanrude on Mar 5, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He can just dominate, there are times with RW
where you think, I’d never do anything BUT throw him the ball. But some how, D’s have a way of getting WRs out of game plans
by AustonianAggie on Mar 5, 2009 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
and I like professional football, so I don’t watch the Lions
Feb. 27 -- Veteran free agency signing period begins. Trading period begins.
April 25-26 -- NFL Draft
by APerfectStar on Mar 5, 2009 8:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The evolution of Jerry Jones
Is this a transition for the team? Releasing TO? Yes, I think it is. I think its a comment on the evolution of Jerry Jones. He tried the Yankees approach. He tried it before Parcells, to a degree. Tuna got him to focus more on character, etc. His leaving let Jerry go back to his roots of acquiring talent and seeing largely the upside in people. And Jerry saw the result this past year. It flat out embarassed him.
I have every idea that lots of people he trusts, Dan Reeves, Troy Aikman and I’m sure, many many more, all had the same conclusion. Get rid of the cancers and distractions. And so we’re TO-less and Pacman-less now. How long this phase lasts is up to question. I have a feeling Jerry will revert to his roots again in time. But for the next year or two or so, you’ll likely see a return to character and removing distractions.
by Ridgelake on Mar 5, 2009 1:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Commenting on the whole "double team" term being thrown around.
Alot of the posts on here act like Owens had two guys following him on every play.
Not exactly true.
I don’t really consider what most teams were doing with Owens, “double coverage”, they bumped him hard on the line of scrimmage and then rolled the safety over to his side.
He wasn’t beating bump coverage, and the only game that he really just blew up in was against San Fran who for whatever reason played off of him.
Dallas makes me act like Christian Bale......
by AirforceBat on Mar 5, 2009 1:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
thats a little disengenuous . Teams were forced to scheme for him whether you consider that a true double or not two players are specifically tasked to cover him. Rolling a safety to his side deep keeps the safety out of Wittens grill and out of our back
field.
Don't believe everything you think.
Your causes are cute!!!
by stoproyce on Mar 5, 2009 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok
But it wasn’t the fact that they were rolling coverage to his side that was hurting him as much as it was him not being able to get off press coverage like he has in the past.
Teams didn’t play him that much different in 08 then in 07.
Dallas makes me act like Christian Bale......
by AirforceBat on Mar 5, 2009 1:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
It’s not like last year was the first time teams schemed for him and rolled a safety toward him – that’s happened his entire career. But it was the first time he couldn’t beat press coverage at the line. He wasn’t hurt. He was still bigger, stronger, and faster than anyone he was playing against. But he couldn’t beat a simple jam.
The only reason for that, in my mind, is that he got old. Hey, it happens to the best of us. In fact, TO is a year younger than I am, so that pains me to admit that he’s losing it. But his production dropped considerably last year, and there’s no evidence that it’s going to get better from here on out.
Without his incredible production, the headaches he brings are magnified even further. Better to cut bait now than to hope that he somehow reverses the effects of Father Time.
by DannyWhite on Mar 5, 2009 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
I read an article that said since the early 80’s only 5 times has a WR had 1000 plus yards at the age of 36, and three of those times were by jerry rice.
But he’s NEVER ran as good as routes as Rice.
Dallas makes me act like Christian Bale......
by AirforceBat on Mar 5, 2009 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
but the double teams were still happening. yes his production may have been down but DC's still had to scheme for him and assign two players to him. that means Witten wasn't doubled or roy or they weren't stacking the box. Its a numbers game and untill
roy proves demands that double noDC worth his salt will give it to him.
Don't believe everything you think.
Your causes are cute!!!
by stoproyce on Mar 5, 2009 2:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Roy's starting the season off well ... speaking of press coverage 8^P
http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/03/roy-williams-beats-press-coverage.html
hmmm … the link gadget isn’t working for me, oh well
by GalTex on Mar 5, 2009 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is Greg Ellis next?
He’s the last chemistry killing malcontent left.
Colin Cowherd was saying this is a bad day for Jerry, because he has to admit he’s wrong, but I disagree completely. I think this is a great day for Jerry and the Cowboys because he is willing to admit he was wrong and is trying to learn how to make it right.
by Baked Potato Soup on Mar 5, 2009 1:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I've never heard that Ellis was too bad chemistry wise.
He’s generally cool in the regular season, he just cries in the offseason and then he shows up and does his job.
I don’t like how handles things, but I’ve never thought of him as a cancer.
Dallas makes me act like Christian Bale......
by AirforceBat on Mar 5, 2009 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Me neither.
But he is a crybaby every year about his role and his contract. That can’t be good, considering that he’s a team captain.
by Baked Potato Soup on Mar 5, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
but hes a big mouth like Crayton and Newman and Roy and now Hurd. If this was truly done because of Owens
mouth or things that fall out of it then the whole team should be held to the same standard. I just find that whole line of reasoning to be highly suspect and inconsistent in its practice.
Don't believe everything you think.
Your causes are cute!!!
by stoproyce on Mar 5, 2009 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
what are you going to cut everyone who says anything?
Dallas makes me act like Christian Bale......
by AirforceBat on Mar 5, 2009 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
of course not but this line of reasoning is either false or should be carried out to its logical conclusion.
I just am not buying the BS logic being used to justify his release. Can’t have it both ways ,i guess we can but its a completely disingenuous argument then.
Don't believe everything you think.
Your causes are cute!!!
by stoproyce on Mar 5, 2009 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
I get what you’re saying.
I’m thinking its more then just saying a few things to the media. I think thats just part of it.
I don’t think it was easy for Jerry to do, because I think he really liked him.
But it’s kinda like Grizz said, the fire was probably ignited some by the media, but generally there is a bit of truth in everything.
And I think the fact that so many teams aren’t interested in him shows that they think he might be more trouble then what he’s worth as well.
Dallas makes me act like Christian Bale......
by AirforceBat on Mar 5, 2009 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, you don't have to carry it to it's logical conclusion.
Sometimes making an example of one a-hole is all that’s needed. Observe:
“It was as a shock to me. But obviously we know that our owner is serious about getting things together and it sends a message to a team that there’s no tolerance. You’re either going to get on board or you’re not going to be here. That’s how I look at it. No one’s untouchable.”
See http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/03/young-players-now-realize-no-ones-untouc.html.
First, it seems clear that Scandrick believed Owens wasn’t “on board.” Whatever else that may mean, it’s clear he realized Owens has his own agenda. Second, if the players get the “no tolerance message” by cutting TO, then it’s a great move.
by Johnny Cage on Mar 5, 2009 2:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.
by kameleon_o on Mar 6, 2009 5:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Now the fun begins
I won’t be surprised at all if Dallas ends up playing TO twice a year. Washington and NYG are both possibilities
by StillHateTheGiants on Mar 5, 2009 1:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
They both have removed their names out of the hat...
Especially the Giants.
One of Washingtons guys said “we didn’t try to sign him three years ago, why would we want him now that he’s 3 years older?”
Haha.
Dallas makes me act like Christian Bale......
by AirforceBat on Mar 5, 2009 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here are the odds of where TO lands...
Here are the odds, courtesy of www.BodogLife.com.
What team will Terrell Owens play football for during the 2009 NFL season?
Oakland Raiders 7/2
Washington Redskins 4/1
New York Jets 6/1
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 13/2
New England Patriots 13/2
Tennessee Titans 13/2
Miami Dolphins 8/1
Philadelphia Eagles 50/1
Field (any other team) 5/2
by Ridgelake on Mar 5, 2009 1:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The browns, dolphins, ravens, gints, and deadskins have publicly said "thanks, but no thanks".
Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!
by cowboy78 on Mar 5, 2009 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
my money is on Philly.
just not much of it
by AustonianAggie on Mar 5, 2009 1:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
haha
Thats just because you want to bank.
Dallas makes me act like Christian Bale......
by AirforceBat on Mar 5, 2009 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
no way Philly...same thing with NE.
Oakland also said no thanks……I’m telling you, maybe 2 or 3 teams at the most have an interest for a 35 yr old headache on the downside of his career.
by Boyzfan94 on Mar 7, 2009 10:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is a good post. I couldn't believe the radio guys here in Austin
this morning. They were practically building a cross for TO. I get it; the guy is a talented athlete. But he has sowed dissension everywhere he’s gone; he’s neither a saint nor a victim nor a scapegoat.
by Fernie67 on Mar 5, 2009 1:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I dont live in Texas, but cutting TO
is a huge mistake next offseason I get it, but now its stupid.
we have RW that has not lived up to the expectations
Crayton thrives as a receiver because is on the same field with TO
Austin (Hurd as well) can not stay healthy whole season
Stanback should of been cut two seasons ago
my ohh my. Talking about folding the season. With a new stadium JJ is not filling up seats with Crayto, but with TO.
TO is not the problem for this team, is the coaching staff
by dcfanz on Mar 5, 2009 2:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
.....
And you have have a solid but not great defense, a good running back trio, and a top 3 tightend if not the top tightend in the NFL.
Roy might suck ass this year, but I don’t think you can judge last year by it.
1) He played with Brad Johnson
2) He had a foot injury most of the year
3) Midseason trades hardly pay out that season.
And if you think the season is done, then come back in 2010 or 11 or whenever.
Dallas makes me act like Christian Bale......
by AirforceBat on Mar 5, 2009 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
whats gonna happen if RW starts complaining, are we gonna cut him too?
38 TDs in 3 seasons, M Irvin in any 3 years span of his career had no more than 23 TDs
by dcfanz on Mar 5, 2009 2:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Irvin?
What does Irvin have to do with anything?
Dallas makes me act like Christian Bale......
by AirforceBat on Mar 5, 2009 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was making point about TO's production
by dcfanz on Mar 5, 2009 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, that is totally not comparable.
First, that was a totally different scheme that Dallas was running, so numbers aren’t even comparable.
Second, Irvin wasn’t ever thought to be an in locker distraction.
Third, Irvin had to retire before he was 35 years old.
This isn’t about numbers.
Dallas makes me act like Christian Bale......
by AirforceBat on Mar 5, 2009 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
all I'm saying is that you cant just turn a blind eye on his production
in fact he is well above average with 38 TD’s for 3 years
by dcfanz on Mar 5, 2009 3:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But that's the point of cutting TO.
Making a statement by cutting TO will also cut out most of this whining.
by Johnny Cage on Mar 5, 2009 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
“I know it takes a lot of pressure off Romo focusing on one main feature, like Terrell,” Hurd said. "As a guy like him, he demands the ball and it made you want to try to get him the ball. With him being released [Romo] doesn’t have one main guy, so he can look at every one of us and see whichever one is open on anyu play and get the ball to him.
Sam Hurd basically says what everyone else has been saying
by AustonianAggie on Mar 5, 2009 2:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Links please
When quoting another article, please link to it. Thanks.
by Dave Halprin on Mar 5, 2009 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/03/sam-hurds-reaction-to-terrell-owens-rele.html
thought i did… it took off my html code
http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/03/sam-hurds-reaction-to-terrell-owens-rele.html
by AustonianAggie on Mar 5, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah what happened to the gag order? loose lips. more talking. Blah blah blah.
Don't believe everything you think.
Your causes are cute!!!
by stoproyce on Mar 5, 2009 2:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Loose lips on a decision that was made, not a story that came out saying that team is leaning towards
cutting TO but that it will happen. So the leak may have been intentional by JJ and released while he was tied up in meetings today so he could take his time in answering any questions. The players can talk about it a little because he is no longer on the team; so it is fair territory. This is just a guess, but no one saw this coming until it was a done deal even if it wasn’t officially released, hell RW1 came shortly after that an the only reason we expected that was because he had no trade value. So I doubt the leaks are going to start up again but that does not mean that TO will not be talking.
Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!
by cowboy78 on Mar 5, 2009 2:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought the gag order was only for the coaching staff. Or did I miss something?
by Fernie67 on Mar 5, 2009 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gag order is working, I'd say
else we would of known Tuesday
by AustonianAggie on Mar 5, 2009 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
None of this stuff
was about talking. This was a case of everyone covering their own asses when the 13-3 team put up a 9-7 record the next year. Now Wade, JG, Romo, JJ, etc. are all off the hook. The Cowboys were 9-7 because of team chemistry!!! Oh, Now I get it. Damn, I thought we lost that last game in Philly because the Eagles beat the living snot out of us. But I was wrong. It was T.O. that caused the Romo and Barber fumbles. He also didn’t block those pass rushers that almost got Romo killed. T.O. should have also knocked down those passes to DeSean Jackson and not fumbled the kickoff return.
Here is a newsflash: T.O. is currently being investigated for his role in the Bernie Madoff scandal and being questioned for his role in aiding the Taliban in Pakistan.
by jevans1729 on Mar 5, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you'd be a fool...
to think last season was Owens fault.
But I don’t feel sorry for him either.
Dallas makes me act like Christian Bale......
by AirforceBat on Mar 5, 2009 2:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
more to it
was loosing to Pitt TO’s fault?
was loosing to Bal TO’s fault?
I dont see how we could of won one of those games and end up with TO being cut yesterday
by dcfanz on Mar 5, 2009 3:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
TO, Pac, Tank...all gone.
Change I can believe in!
by Johnny Cage on Mar 5, 2009 3:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I was wrong
Man, Jerry isn’t waiting around for 2010. He certainly is dumping the non functional players. With this in mind, how hot is the seat now, Wade?
by steelyeyedmissle on Mar 5, 2009 3:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think WP would have considered the seat hotter if TO had stayed, but you are right
the pressure is on WP and JG respectively to getrdone this coming year or they could be next.
Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!
by cowboy78 on Mar 5, 2009 3:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
JG better produce
If the stories are even half true, JG better produce now that his excuse is gone.
by steelyeyedmissle on Mar 5, 2009 3:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, the media will be up his but if the offense looks like it did in 07 against the panthers
and the skins.
Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!
by cowboy78 on Mar 5, 2009 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I meant up his butt, but you get the idea.
Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!
by cowboy78 on Mar 5, 2009 3:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The release of T.O. is a for sure change in offensive play style
There is no way that keeping T.O. was going to work in the coming years offensive strategy. T.O. creates problems when he thinks he’s not getting the ball enough. This offense is moving to a running offense with play action passing. T.O. would be pissed and keep the locker room shenanigans at full-tilt drama. Jerry Jones knew that it wouldn’t work. With the pieces that the offense has in place right now, they would be best to go with a closer to 50/50 run/pass ratio, back to the early 90’s glory days. Now all we need is that Fullback Rafael has been talking about. Let’s see, RW1 could be Irvin (I know, I know, that’s a big could), Witten could be Novaceck, Austin could be Alvin Harper, Barber & Jones could be Emmitt, Romo isn’t Aikman but for all intensive purposes he’ll do, Flo could be Eric Williams, Leonard Davis could be Larry Allen.
Well, I’d take the 90’s in a heartbeat but we all can’t live in the past, right?
by torchindefenses on Mar 5, 2009 3:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
LOL!!!!!
Yeah, I forgot about the coaches didn’t I? Funny Steelyeye!
by torchindefenses on Mar 5, 2009 4:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
ESPN is a pimp, the league's a ho
If Andre Johnson or Braylon Edwards asked for the ball more, it wouldn’t be a problem. It wouldn’t have been as public, but a big part of the publicity wasn’t Dallas TO’s fault; that blame falls on SF and Philly TO. He became one of the hottest stories in the League and you know that ESPN has had the “Dallas Cuts TO” story ready for 2 years now. I’m betting ESPN’s ratings were unusually high late last night through today. Even I suspended my boycott to check to see if it was true.
Having that story, but not being able to sell it is like getting a big trust, but being able to access it until X happens. You know you’d want X to happen. ESPN can control public opinion, and the League, each team and every player relies on the public for a living. Essentially, ESPN pimps the NFL to the public and does so with it’s own interests first.
Simple economics are anything but laughable. Everyone is driven by profit (both Jerry and ESPN) and it’s rare that a team makes a non-economic decision as even winning is largely motivated by profit.
I’m not suggesting that the media made Jerry think cutting TO was a good idea, but rather that in making 49 states (including Texas) think TO should be cut, got into Jerry’s wallet. The people who voted in those polls don’t have the knowledge necessary to make the determination and shouldn’t have even been asked the question. I don’t even think any one of us here knew enough of the true facts to know whether TO was a detriment to the team.
Consider this:
Jerry thinks there’s a low probability TO blows up. Low enough that he would keep him except for a fear of the “I told you so.” Any player can blow up; it’s obviously riskier with certain players, but if Haynesworth gets pissed at the Skins next year and blows up (please let this happen!), Daniel Snyder will not be regarded as an idiot, a fool or the guy who killed a franchise (at least not for signing a player who blew up). Just try to picture what would have happened if TO blew up. Don’t you think the effect is multiplied ten fold because of the way the media deals with TO?
When the Cowboys first signed TO, a lot of people did think it was a mistake, but others thought that knowing it was his last chance would put TO on a leash. So if TO blew up then, it would have been bad. But after what happened last season, (and I’m not sure very much actually happened, but it sure received a lot of publicity) keeping TO becomes the bonehead move of the century IF he blows up.
So, no matter how low the probability of a TO blow up, the cost of a possible problem is too great to risk. I’ll bet a few bucks on a game, but if losing the bet means I lose a lot more than those few bucks, I’m out…even with good odds.
It is certainly plausible that Jerry thought a TO blow up was likely, I can’t dispute that because I’m not writing this from Jerry’s office. But, you have to admit that if TO and say Anthony Spencer (sorry, just picked someone) both blow up, Spencer’s blow up doesn’t matter that much compared to TO’s. So if Jerry expected both players to have the same likelihood of a blowup, I’d expect him to cut TO long before he cut Spencer.
Jerry is media savvy and he’s very conscious of the Team’s image.
The distractions, real or perceived, needed to go.
I agree. The team is better off minus those distractions, but if they’re perceived, there’s something seriously wrong with the world. Maybe I’ll put together a little list of TO coverage since last season and see how much it resembles a “call your congressman to get this done” commercial.
I can see it now. “If you care about your kids, your country and God, you’ll stop supporting TO. Call Jerry Jones at (123)456-7890 and let him know what you think (NOW THAT WE’VE TOLD YOU WHAT TO THINK).”
You can’t possibly think that the 50 state TO map and then mocking the one state that supported keeping TO (Oregon?) was entirely unrelated to the decision.
Also, why the hesitation? nothing has changed in the real football world since the end of the season. The team hasn’t really had that much contact with Owens. What has changed? Did TO say something this week that I missed? During the offseason, we like to pretend that a lot more happens than actually does (Rafael cleverly calls it the Silly season), but I just don’t see how a player who was under contract, content with the contract and being on the team can have such a change of status at this point during the offseason.
The only thing that has been happening with TO since Jerry seemingly decided to keep him (he all but said he would keep TO about 10 days ago) is that the ongoing debate about whether to cut TO intensified because the NFL crowd was starting to fade after the combine coverage.
by NICK L on Mar 5, 2009 4:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Do things always have to change?
I’m not advocating his release, because I was on the fence.
I’m saying, couldn’t it have just been that there have been discussions about this and finally there was a conclusion drawn?
Things don’t always have to change.
It’s like, and this is a pretty weak comparison, but its kind of like buying a house or vehicle or whatever.
I mean the house hasn’t changed from 2 weeks, but I’m constantly discussing it in my head and with my wife whether the pros outweigh the cons.
I mean it was a 9 million dollar decision, I’m sure it wasn’t easy.
Dallas makes me act like Christian Bale......
by AirforceBat on Mar 5, 2009 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm on the fence, too
I think it’s entirely plausible that he was released for football reasons (shift towards a run first offense, get Miles Austin on the field more, etc.)
I also think it’s entirely plausible that Jerry really thought TO would be a problem this year.
I just think Jerry’s so afraid of the possibility of a TO blowup (and its ramifications) at this point that even if he doesn’t think he’s going to blow up, he won’t take the risk.
I agree that Jerry could have just been buying himself time to make the difficult decision, but I think it’s also possible that something changed. If something did change, I think it’s most likely to be the outcome of a potential problem with TO.
I’m not sure how clear this is, but here it goes:
Today: P X C > V
Last week: P X C < V
P=Probability of Problem
C=Cost of Problem
V=TO’s value
What factors (during the offseason) can actually change Jerry’s belief that there will be a problem? That’s my point with change. I just think that if TO was cut because they think he will blow up, it’s more consistent with the facts that they think a blowup is more damaging then to think that they believe a blow up is more likely. I also don’t think that anything this offseason has indicated that TO will not be as good a player as we thought he’d be at the end of the season. Since the season ended, only the campaign against TO has really been in a position to influence
I don’t think that Jerry’s opinion of TO as a player or person has changed at all over the past couple of days; he sure has had reason, however, to change his opinion of TO as a public figure.
by NICK L on Mar 5, 2009 4:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I thought there wasn't going to be any math on this test!
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
by Seanrude on Mar 5, 2009 6:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
TO
Looks like ill be watchn more hockey this year, what a disapointment , im almost half temted to box up me and my little boys gameday jerseys and send them back to jerry jones and his crybaby Romo , ths decsion better be right ,this is gonna break his little heart
by spursn4life on Mar 5, 2009 5:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
IF IT WASNT FOR T.O. ROMO WOULDNT BE IN HIS POSTION HED STILL B AN UNDRAFTED PLACE HOLDER
by spursn4life on Mar 5, 2009 5:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You are going to stop watching Dallas...
Because they let go of TO?
Dallas makes me act like Christian Bale......
by AirforceBat on Mar 5, 2009 5:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
YEP!!!!
I dont want to take a chance of being thee next to get thrown under the’’ Wade Phillups -BUS to Failure’’ Not thee same COWBOYS I remembeer pulliin together and rising above all, guess New England fans were right about ‘AmericasTeam’ not in Dallas any longer. Broke my little boys heart …
by spursn4life on Mar 10, 2009 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
kitna
maybe this was why kitna was brought in? they knew they were going to get rid of to so bring kitna in to tutor romo on royw2’s route running, timing, etc since he will be number one wr.
by maxdout on Mar 5, 2009 5:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad
You all called me crazy when I posted this but I’m glad it came true. This just became a real “team”.
by Billito on Mar 5, 2009 5:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
lol
And there is no “I” in fandom!
George Teague, Brock Marion, the Roy Williams-of-old: Where are you?
by Aaron Novinger on Mar 5, 2009 6:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I just watched the Jerry Jones interview on the NFL.com homepage.
Man, that guy can diffuse any question. He never gets flustered!
George Teague, Brock Marion, the Roy Williams-of-old: Where are you?
by Aaron Novinger on Mar 5, 2009 5:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Everyone needs to be honest with themselves
I am going to miss him in a Cowboy uniform on game days. I think he is a good guy and unfairly treated regardless of opinions as to whether he should go or stay.
by cow_fanatic on Mar 5, 2009 6:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Bull-I won't miss him.
Win or lose, I will enjoy the games 100% more not having that psycho loser with a star on his helmet.
besides, when did he ever bring it in a big game, when we really needed it?? Never.
And he couldn’t even get off a jam this year. He can do a million situps, it’s not showing up in the football field anymore.
by Realist Larry on Mar 5, 2009 9:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm done with the TO talk
but if you can point out the fact that his 38 TDs had no affect on any of the games while he was here then you are smarter then the rest of us. He was a good guy thinking too much of himself, that still makes him a good guy.
And I would never Boo him on game day, that’s where you and I differ
by cow_fanatic on Mar 5, 2009 11:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm all over that post backing you up! Man,
fighting the delusional pro-TO sentiment here is tough.
by Realist Larry on Mar 5, 2009 10:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

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