The Greatness of Michael Irvin
by GeoMak on Apr 12, 2009 2:31 PM CDT
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PrintDuring a recent FanPost (Aikman vs. Romo) the subject of Michael Irvin came up. Respectfully, some people (fans and executives) get it. And others don’t.
What do some people get that others miss? The intangibles. Like leadership (for example). Some never see beyond the infinite ‘stat line’ to notice the crucial intangibles.
When comparing the stats between Irvin and TO we come up with this:
Receptions per game: 4.71 (Irvin) 5.03 (TO).
Yards per game: 74.9 (Irvin) 74.7 (TO).
Yards per Reception: 15.9 (Irvin) 14.8 (TO).
TD’s: 65 (Irvin) 139 (TO).
Pretty similar stats between the two. Irvin gained one more yard per reception while TO had twice as many TD’s (which is a great achievement). This disparity in TD's between the two, however, might somewhat be explained like this: Irvin was more of a possession receiver who played in more ‘balanced offenses’ in Dallas than TO, who played in more passing orientated offenses in SF, Philadelphia and even in Dallas.
That said, nobody is denying TO’s considerable receiving skills, least of all me.
However, when it comes to the intangibles, it’s not even close. Of course I’m talking here about ‘on-field’ contributions. TO (to his credit) has never been a problem ‘off-the-field’ while Irvin’s history there in that regard is well documented.
Regarding the ‘on-field’ intangibles, it’s night and day between the two.
It was often said of Michael that nobody wanted to win more than Michael. Nobody worked harder than Michael. And that nobody was more of a team leader than Michael.
TO has always been a hard worker. No doubt. And yet, I can’t ever remember anyone saying that TO’s number one priority was winning (over individual stats). Or that TO was a team leader. Actually, even a cursory look at TO's career shows that basically, TO is mostly about TO.
In the mid 90’s I became good friends with a family in South Phoenix. In 1997 their son (Kenny Wheaton) was drafted by the Cowboys. One of the first questions I asked him later on was if all of that stuff was true about Irvin. He said “Absolutely.”
One of my favorite Michael Irvin stories is one he has told (on I believe America’s Game) regarding his 'list.' How, in Irvin’s first year in Dallas under Tom Landry he made a mental list of all the players on the team. The next year Jimmy Johnson arrived in Dallas. Michael then went up to Jimmy with his list and said: 'This guy wants to win, this guy’s just here for a paycheck. This guy wants to win, these two guys are just here for the money, etc.'
What does this have to do with the current Cowboys (and other NFL teams)?
The 'intangibles' of winning at all costs; of winning over individual 'stats'; of having certain key team leaders on the field and in the locker room.
All the great teams in the NFL have those critical traits and no NFL player had them more than the great Michael Irvin.
TO has a 'stat line' similar to, probably even better than Michaels. When it comes to the all-important (and oft-overlooked) intangibles, however, it's not even close.
And those winning intangibles are often the difference between teams that play late into January and teams that go home early.
On a fantasy football team, I'd take players like TO. When it comes to winning Championships, however, it's guys like Michael all day long.
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Fantastic Post
Irvin was so much more than his on field production and overall clutch play. He was the heart and soul of 3 championship teams. That, as you point out, is the greatness of Michael Irvin.
"Confidence doesn't come out of nowhere. It's a result of something... hours and days and weeks and years of constant work and dedication." --Roger Staubach
TD differential
Irvin was the ultimate team player. He gave up TDs by falling down inside the 5 so Emmitt could feed his ego and score.
by 500miles2Arrowhead on Apr 17, 2009 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Irvin is probably one of my favorite, if not THE favorite, Cowboy of all time
Granted I’m younger and don’t remember much before the mid to late 80s. But he was the heart and soul of those championship teams.
good post...
My favorite memory of Irvin is when he caught 2 TDs within an 18 second window in Super Bowl 27, unbelievable and acrobactic ones.
Your comment “And those winning intangibles are often the difference between teams that play late into January and teams that go home early.” TO had his chance: he performed well in his Super Bowl appearance, a gutsy performance coming off a broken ankle. It was a close game. If the Eagles had won, would that change your opinion of TO. If he had a super bowl ring?
by beautifultyrant on Apr 13, 2009 1:19 PM CDT reply actions
no
We all know TO is a great teammate when things are going well. Thats never been an issue. Its how he responds to adversity thats been the problem throughout his career. I could care less if he led the eagles to a victory in that one superbowl – it wouldn’t change my opinion that he is a bad teammate when things are going poorly.
He played well in the playoffs against the giants for us, he played well in the philly superbowl, he caught that amazing td for the 49ers against the packers. his individual talent has never been in question.
Personally
I thought that TO was the best player on the field for either Philadelphia and New England in that SB.
Really. He was great in that game. And it doesn’t matter to me that he has never won a SB. A lot of great players (Dick Butkus, Dan Marino) never won the big one.
Like I said, I have never doubted TO’s ability as a WR, nor have I questioned his toughness as evidenced by that SB.
It begs the question. Why is TO on his fourth team? To me, it’s pretty simple. His great ability as a player gets overshadowed by his need to be the center of attention.
TO has an almost pathological need to be the center of attention.
Michael had an almost pathological need to win.
And that’s the difference. And it’s too bad. For TO and everybody else.
And by the way beautifultryant, I did respond somewhere in your FanPost ‘Aikman vs. Romo’ that I thought you post was well written and that you made a lot of good points.
The one main point I disagreed with involves stats, mainly because the stat line never shows the intangibiles and to me, the intangibles are critical to winning, especially in the NFL.
You did, however, say basically the same thing when you talked about Aikman’s SB wins.
you hit the nail on the head
TO has an almost pathological need to be the center of attention.
That sums up T.O. perfectly.
In Romo we Trust
TO & John McEnroe
TO always reminded me of John McEnroe. You always knew at some point they were going to “blow up.”
Of course, it was done in diffferent ways; McEnroe on court and TO sometimes on the sidelines, locker room or with the media.
To me, both had almost no ability to stop their behavior.
The big difference was that McEnroe usually raised his game and played better when he started losing his mind.
TO’s “antics” almost always hurt not only himself, but more importantly his team.
For all his talent and TD’s, he’ll largely be remembered as a guy who wasted his considerable abilities in the most ‘team oriented’ of all team sports, the NFL.
I disagree...why qualify it with "almost"?
That’s a joke…..but, really, he’s like a big boy in a grown man’s body-It’s like the movie “Big,” what would happen if a pouty 8 year old were given a wish to be an NFL player ?!?
Here’s something I wonder about him-besides the strange and weird situation with some female PR rep that came out when he was taken to the hospital, do you ever remember hearing about him being with a woman anywhere? Can’t he get a date? Don’t you think it’d be covered if he ever went out? Does he EVER go out socially with teammates, or anyone?
Now, he’s to be admired for not hitting the club scene or going all Romo and dating starlets, but doesn’t he take the whole ‘homebody’ thing a bit too far?
It just seems that something’s wrong which prevents him from forming attachments to others.
Pop psychology, I know.
by Realist Larry on Apr 14, 2009 12:50 AM CDT up reply actions
He Apparantly Has 2 Kids
Some things are weird how none of this comes out in the press but if he farts in the locker room the whole world knows it
http://www.blackcelebkids.com/2008/08/15/terrell-owens-sonatlin-is-a-model/
It shows his GF and his son
I thank God everyday i wasnt born a Eagles fan!!!!!!
Good Point
about the ‘dating situation.’ He accused Jeff Garcia of being gay and yet you never hear about him with a woman. Strange.
Honestly, TO has been psycholologically damaged since early childhood. He was raised not by his mother but by his grandmother and he knew nothing about his father until he fell in love with a little girl who lived across the street from him. This is how TO recounts what happened next in his biography:
The girl’s father—a man in his forties—made fun of the eleven-year-old’s crush on his daughter and said dating her was impossible because the girl was Terrell’s sister. With this, Owens realized that this neighbor man was his father. He and his family had lived across the street all this time, and neither his grandmother nor his mother, Marilyn Heard, had ever told him about it. He was devastated by the news, and he never went near the house again. Nor did his father make any attempt to have a relationship with him.
That’s pretty screwed up.
why is hitting the club scene wrong??
I could never understand why that is a bad thing. These guys are in their 20s for crying out loud, there would be something wrong with them if they didn’t.
In Romo we Trust
Exactly
As long as they’re not firing guns and getting arrested, like you say, there’d be something wrong with them if they didn’t hit the club scene.
I live in Phoenix. The problem with Matt Leinart wasn’t so much him being in hot tubs and out in clubs. Hell, if I was young, rich and handsome I’d be doing the same thing.
Leinart’s problem was that he wasn’t working hard enough by putting in extra time at the Cards training facility learning his offense and opposing defenses.
At least that’s how he was his first two years for which he was publicly criticized by his coaches. Last year, he seemed to figure it out and nobody question his work ethic anymore.
He does hang out with teammates and Irvin
T.O. ‘s bday party AFTER he was released by the Eagle’s
Irvin led the crowd in a rendition of “Happy Birthday,” holding a celebratory cake up for Owens to see. After the singing was over, Owens addressed the revelers.
Jevon Kearse and Lito Sheppard were among the 11 Eagles who had arrived at the party by 11:15. By one count, there were 19 Eagles at the party, including players on injured reserve and the practice squad.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2257254
Game Recognize Game
by pretty ricky on Apr 15, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Watched the Cards/Boys game on NFL Network yesterday...
I have never seen such an atrocious display of route running as I did from T.O. in that game.
He rounded all of his cuts. He didn’t sell inside fakes. He was just bad.
Irvin on his worst day never did that to Aikman. Never ever…
"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
A point made a whle ago about TO's decline-
he has relied so much on pure physical gifts that he’s been inconsistent with routes, mental concentration, and his hands-which all go together. But he got awat with it.
So while Irviin and Rice could still perform as they aged (Irvin had a few more productive years left when hurt), Owens will have a steep dropoff once his body starts aging.
Like a baseball pitcher who relies on a fastball and never learns to ‘pitch’, and he’s done once that fastball loses a few mph.
by Realist Larry on Apr 14, 2009 12:53 AM CDT up reply actions
You are so wrong...
So while Irviin and Rice could still perform as they aged (Irvin had a few more productive years left when hurt), Owens will have a steep dropoff once his body starts aging.
Dude Irvin only played 12 seasons and had to retired at the age of 33.
Owens has played 14 seasons and will turn 36 this year So even if he does dropoff he has already outlasted and outperformed Irvin.
And nobody compares to Jerry Rice.
Game Recognize Game
by pretty ricky on Apr 15, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Outperformed?
Maybe as a Fantasy Football WR, certainly not as an NFL WR. Not even close.
Did you read/understand any of this FanPost?
Look, it’s real simple. The goal of everybody (Owner, Management, Coaches, Players, and the FANS) is to win the SB, isn’t it?
Isn’t that the goal?
TO might have better stats and has played longer than Irvin, but Irvin was the Heart & Soul, and a Key Factor in his team winning 3 SB’s!
TO just goes from team to team cause his selfish “me first” attutude gets in the way of his teams goal, which is to win the SB.
Michael: 3 rings. TO: 0 rings.
That’s the only ’stat" that matters!
Are you a Cowboy fan, pretty ricky, or just a Fantasy Football player?
Nice condescending tone their GeoMak
Do you understand the “up” button that shows which post I was replying to?
Or how about the block quotes I used to identify the specific point I was commenting on? Like this…
I thought that TO was the best player on the field for either Philadelphia and New England in that SB.
So the Eagles owe T.O. a SB ring and an SB MVP trophy because according to you he clearly played like a champion.
Game Recognize Game
by pretty ricky on Apr 15, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Correct me if I'm wrong
but didn’t you write this?
Dude Irvin only played 12 seasons and had to retired at the age of 33.
Owens has played 14 seasons and will turn 36 this year So even if he does dropoff he has already outlasted and outperformed Irvin.
I thought I read that in your 9:55 post. Where you say that TO has outperformed Irvin.
That’s what I was responding to in my 10:24 post.
As far as TO being the best player on the field in that SB, I stand by that statement.
For that ONE GAME I thought he was the best player.
Nobody doubts his physical ability. As I tried to point out here in this post which paid homage to the Great Michael Irvin, there’s more to “winning” football than just physical ability.
The intangibles matter!
BTW: As far as Rice is concerned, don’t forget that he played for the greatest offensive mind in the NFL at that time (Bill Walsh) in a system that was almost exclusively designed to get him (Rice) the ball in situations conducive to scoring.
Guess you don't get it
Where in the comment that I replied to, and in my own comment is “intangibles” mentioned?
You should rename the post “Intangibles only discussion!” because Realist Larry’s comment that I replied to had nothing to do with intangibles.
Game Recognize Game
by pretty ricky on Apr 15, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Look
In your response to Realist Larry you made this comment: So even if he (TO) does dropoff he has already outlasted and outperformed Irvin.
Now, he’s definitely ‘outlasted’ Irvin.
Outperformed him? That’s f’ing laughable.
Your idea of ‘performance’ is Fantasy Football type numbers & stats.
MY idea of performance is those same numbers & stats AND the intangibles like leadership and winning.
Thta’s what this entire FanPost (The Greatness of Michael Irvin) was ALL about. How Irvin’s leadership and his overwhelming desire to win were almost just as important to the Cowboys as the numbers he piled up.
And how TO, in spite of his considerable numbers, will NEVER be remembered as fondly as Irvin in Dallas and Rice in SF, because instead of helping his team to win (in an intangible way) he pretty much splintered the team (in an intangible way).
That’s why TO is on his 4th team and Michael and Jerry played most of their careers on one.
Which part of this is so difficult for you to understand?
Really?
Thta’s what this entire FanPost (The Greatness of Michael Irvin) was ALL about.
Funny how all the comments on who T.O. hangs out with, why he doesn’t have any girlfriends, etc… that have nothing to do with football or intangibles are fine, but I make a comment about non intangibles in defense of T.O. you get all wound up.
Sorry there are people on this blog who don’t see things the way you do.
Game Recognize Game
by pretty ricky on Apr 15, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Beyond the numbers
The FanPost “The Greatness of Michael Irvin” was about the similarity between Irvin and TO regarding the stats and numbers and the almost complete difference between the two when it came to the ‘intangibles’ of winning.
That’s pretty clear with a simple reading of the post.
You talking about TO’s receiving accomplishments is fine. He’s been a great WR in the NFL.
You saying that he’s already outperformed Irvin (in your 9:55 post) almost makes me laugh. I don’t care how many passes TO has caught or will catch. You almost completely ignore or dismiss the intangibles of winning in favor of the stat line.
Michael’s ‘intangibles’ were all about winning.
TO’s ‘intangibles’ were all about TO.
It’s as simple as that.
As far as people on this blog not seeing things the way I do (about Irvin & TO) . . . that’s fine. I’m not God and everybody’s entitled to their opinion.
That said, if anybody disagrees with me regarding the essence of this post (The Greatness of Michael irvin) then they really don’t understand the NFL or the difference between Irvin’s Cowboys and TO’s Cowboys.
I never disagreed with your post or about Irvin's intangibles
and still haven’t.
But I do disagree with some of the comments and replied specifically to the subject matter of those comments.
Funny thing is you don’t know what I think about Irvin or his intangibles (which I would have been happy to share) but since I made a comment in defense of T.O.’s production you decided I must be stupid and felt the need to comment back as if I was a child.
The first jersey I ever bought was Irvin’s and my latest was T.O.‘s. I happen to like both guys, but Irvin wasn’t the one who was being incorrectly portrayed in the comments I replied to.
Game Recognize Game
by pretty ricky on Apr 15, 2009 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions
ricky
I got reprimanded recently but take a look here. Scroll down the threads. Your post at 9:55 this morning is titled “YOU ARE SO WRONG.”
That title was the most ‘argumentative’ here. That, my friend, was condesending. And YOU started it. OK?
You were responding to Realist Larry’s earlier post about TO’s ‘coming decline.’
It was at this point where you said that even if TO does dropoff he’s already outperformed Irvin.
To which I, in my 10:24 post today, tried to explain that TO hasn’t come close to outperforming Irvin, unless all you are looking at is ‘stats.’ The whole point of this FanPost was to show that, while stats and numbers are obviously important, so are the intangibles of winning.
But really ricky, before you criticize me for being condesending, please look at the FIRST condesending post here, YOUR 9:55 post.
So, to sum up-I'd say you disagreed with my point???
Yeah, obviously!
That’s OK-actually, you made a valid point-he IS already 36.
I just don’t count last year as a ‘good’ year-I know the numbers looked good at the end, but he was too easily taken out of games by opposing D’s.
I just wish Irvin had played a few more years, so we could have seen what he would have done at 35/36.
And your point, “Irvin had to retire at 33”, well, one good smack to the neck could have done that to TO too. It wasn’t Irvin’s fault. It wasn’t age.
by Realist Larry on Apr 15, 2009 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm watching Michael on America's Game
right now, talking about how he was crying after losing so much in his first year in Dallas and how the vets were telling him it was all right cause payday was just around the corner.
I get chills everytime I watch that.
All NFL players should play like Michael played the game.
I saw it too
I liked his description of his TD catch in the 1st SB against Buffalo, where he shields the guy with his leg.
Man, did I enjoy those 2 TD’s in, what, 18 seconds?
by Realist Larry on Apr 16, 2009 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually...
Rice was notoriously known as a me first player.
I don’t think that diminishes his career any, but he was known to cry and pout if the ball didn’t come his way.
The statment shouldn’t be that Irvin was a better “player” than Owens, he was a better “team player”.
I don’t hold it against Owens that he hasn’t won a Super Bowl, because there are plenty of teams that have had immature WR’s that have won them.
Irvin was a totally different type of guy, in an industry that is ruled with guys who want there numbers, you had a guy who in all honesty just cared about super bowl rings.
For those of you who haven’t read Boys Will Be Boys by Jeff Pearlman, you should. It’s grrrrrreat.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
You're right about Rice
but there’s a huge difference. He never put himself above his QB (or went ‘public’ with his complaints about not getting the ball).
That’s the big difference.
Like Irivn said: “Troy was my boy.” Aikman could do no wrong in Irvin’s eyes. Even if the ball was thrown 15 feet about Michael’s head, he went back to the huddle and told Troy that it was his (Irvin’s) fault that he didn’t catch the ball.
Irvin (like most great WR’s) understood that the QB was the one holding the ball and deciding who to throw it to.
The best thing then was to shut up, get open, do everything you can to catch the ball and don’t complain if you don’t get it.
I'll agree with that.
I still think Owens is a great player though, he’s just a nutcase.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
Absolutely
A great player and a nutcase. And it’s too bad cause all of his BS doesn’t help anybody, least of all him.
I hate to see talent wasted. And TO’s different that way. Most guys waste talent with drus or other forms of stupidity. TO is to be commended for being nothing like that.
That’s what makes it so hard to understand.
If he just could have adopted Michael’s attitude, he would have been off-the-charts.
TO is just spoiled
He started off with steve young and jerry rice on the other side in an offense made for his type of play. It could never be duplicated no matter how much he wanted it.
What the French?! Toast!
Irvin's career was cut short due to the condition of his vertabrae (remember the cheering iggles fans when he was carted off the field in a stretcher), not because he was not
a good WR anymore, so I do not think you can use the out-lasted part of your comment, Irvin’s did not get to live out his full career in the NFL; so whether TO outperformed Irvin is debatable because we will never really know.
Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!
thats why T.O. is overrated
and really won’t be missed in this offense. It takes more than game breaking speed. He is a horrible route runner and drops a lot of balls.
In Romo we Trust
-1
Red and Black!! Red and Black!! Red and Black!! Congrats boys first time in team history over .500
by aussie_cowboy on Apr 14, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions
You should explain your plusses and minuses
seems pretty weak to leave it at a plus or a minus.
"Confidence doesn't come out of nowhere. It's a result of something... hours and days and weeks and years of constant work and dedication." --Roger Staubach
well Ive expressed my opinion multiple times on this blog
But basically I just think that is 4th on the all time touchdown list cant be overrated
Red and Black!! Red and Black!! Red and Black!! Congrats boys first time in team history over .500
by aussie_cowboy on Apr 15, 2009 4:00 AM CDT up reply actions
i think it says something
about TO’s talent that he has success no matter where he goes what the offense is or who is throwing it to him.
What the French?! Toast!
nobody has ever questioned T.O.s talent
its his lack of discipline and attention to detail and lack of focus at times that gets him labeled overrated by many.
In Romo we Trust
Kinda sounds like what people say about Romo don't it?
Game Recognize Game
by pretty ricky on Apr 15, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions
but those accusations are not true about Romo
as he actually has great discipline, pays great attention to detail and has tremendous focus.
Otherwise he would have never made it as an NFL qb because he obviously isn’t as physically gifted as T.O. and there’s no way he could just rely on his talent alone like T.O. does.
In Romo we Trust
Romo gets kudos on
heart, passion, and will to win, but not discipline, especially not “great” discipline, nor on “great” attention to detail. It has been the lack of those qualities that have brough Romo his biggest doubters.
not true at all
Romo spends countless hours of film study learning opposing defenses and works very hard on the details of his game.
You’re obviously buying into the false perceptions out there that is not based in reality.
In Romo we Trust
Until the film study
corrects Romo’s lack of discipline on the field and his “recklessness”, which is the word that Troy Aikman used to describe him, he will still have to deal with the monkey on his back, even though he is very passionate, very determined, and very much a team player.
Romo is who he is
and I don’t see him changing all that much and quite frankly I hope he doesn’t. Unlike many fans, I don’t see his flaws or mistakes being the reason our team hasn’t won in the post season.
Romo will play better in Dec and Jan if the rest of the team plays better as well. Unlike in other sports, a QB is totally dependent on his teammates for success.
In Romo we Trust
I agree that Romo
doesn’t need to change MUCH, he does, like every player, need to improve in areas of weakness.
Do you acknowledge that Romo has areas of weakness? Do you see that he needs improvement? I think you do, you’re a smart guy.
If Romo can simply correct those mistakes he makes in those moments of “recklessness” he will be a better QB and our team will be better for it.
You are right in that every player
needs to improve in areas of weakness.
Perception is funny though. For decades Brett Favre’s ‘recklessness’ was almost looked at like a badge of honor, like he was having fun playing on the sandlot.
And yet, with someone else, like Romo, it can sometimes be overanalyzed and overcriticized.
In my opinion,
Brett has had to deal with as much criticism, and probably more, than Romo.
Doesn’t he lead the NFL in INTs?
His SBowl rings and league MVP had a big hand in his positive perception by the fans.
You're right about
the rings and such but starting with John Madden, he’s been put on a pedestal for years and years.
All those INT’s? For the most part, that was just Brett being Brett.
I’m not criticizing Favre, I just think that the perception of Favre, until just recently, was somewhat skewed.
absolutely I agree Romo has flaws
every player has flaws including Manning and Brady. If any player is worth their salt they will always try to improve and I think Romo definitely goes into each off season trying to accomplish that goal of improving his game.
In Romo we Trust
It's a team game
players and coaches all have to do their part to produce a winning season.
Romo has his flaws, but at least half the teams in the NFL would love to have him under center.
To me, the thing that’s most missing with the Cowboys is what this FanPost was all about: Leadership and players who care more about winning than individual stats.
Now that TO’s gone, I think most Cowboys will be more concerned with the team as opposed to individual stats.
That said, they need some leaders on that team who will get in the face of their teammates who aren’t doing their job right.
I don't think 'individual stats' is the right way to put it
I don’t think TO cares much about stats. There were games (washington) when we threw the ball his way pretty much nonstop and instead of saying something along the lines of we need to spread the ball around more, his postgame comments were “give me the ball”
likewise, when we win, it doens’t matter how many balls he catches.
Thats the problem with TO. Hes basically a frontrunner – when things are going well, TO is happy, a great teammate, and a winner. But he does NOT impress in the face of adversity. He was definitely better as a cowboy than an eagle or 49er, but he still has a long way to go.
So you don't see......
the bobbled snap in Seattle as having a huge impact on the game? Sorry, but you are wrong. If he had not bobbled the snap we would have won that game. Sure other players should have stepped up earlier in the game, but that loss is/was squarely on Romo’s shoulders.
I agree that Romo
bobbled that snap and lost that game, but not as QB, he lost it as Place Kick Holder. His QB play in the game was pretty good (rated 89.6). He had 1 TD and 0 INTS.
That game will haunt Romo until he wins a playoff game, and I hope it happens this year.
I agree.
I don’t think that is an indictment of him as a QB, and I don’t think the two playoff games he’s been in that he has played that bad.
That Seattle game is marked because of that snap, but Dallas really played horribly defensively in that game and was just way too conservative.
Why Dallas wasn’t passing more with the Seattle’s secondary banged up is crazy.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
I do agree that it wasn't his QB play......
that caused the loss but to say that Romo doesn’t need to work on his play and cut down on his mistakes is just wrong. To get to the next level, Romo must cut down on mental mistakes and the recklessness that goes along with it.
That's true...
I think you can say that with alot of QB’s.
I think sometimes mental mistakes are too often forgotten when you win.
Eli Manning still has alot of dumb moments, but that team isn’t built on him, its built on the run and good pass rush.
Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are in an entire league by themselves.
I think Drew Brees gets WAY too much credit. He’s really good but he makes ALOT of dumb throws, especially down by the endzone.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
Airforce.....
you and I are on the same page. I find it amazing when you look at Brett Favre’s career he undoubtedly had some amazing comebacks, touchdowns etc. However, he has always gotten a pass on a lot of his goof head mistakes like throwing into double coverage and his last pass against the Giants in the playoff game. If he were anywhere else besides GB the media and fans would have eaten him alive.
All I’m trying to say is some people just like to accept Romo for his mental mistakes and dumb moments by saying that’s just part of his game and it’s okay. I tend to disagree. For him to ever be called an “elite QB” he has to cut down on those mistakes and carry this team like the Elways, Marinos, Aikman. To me QB ratings and statistics don’t mean a whole lot unless it translates into wins.
Oh I agree...
And the thing is, even the Elways made some boneheaded mistakes.
I don’t expect perfect, just a cut down on situational turnovers.
Turvnovers in the endzone, a few careless fumbles.
I think you’d have to be crazy not to want that.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
Good point that gets overlooked about Brees.
Case in point, he made some horrible throws down in the red zone against the Falcons that cost his team the game.
thats not true texstar
If the Cowboys kick that FG there is no guarantee we win that game and actually I’d be willing to bet that the Seahawks would have driven right down the field and kicked the game winning FG pretty easily.
In Romo we Trust
It's a mute point Terry......
we’ll never know what coulda/shoulda happened will we? Whether you want to admit it or not, Romo shouldn’t have bobbled the snap-therefore we lost the game. Even Romo admits as much-the loss was on him. Romo’s not perfect nor will he ever be. He’s a big boy so don’t go making excuses for him. If he ever wants to be considered an elite QB he will need to cut down on goofy mistakes and recklessness with the ball period. It’s not an attack on Romo but you can’t put him in the same sentence with Brady and Manning until he cuts down on these type of mistakes.
thanks Larry for the correction.....
could be mute though couldn’t it if I meant mute as in quiet? LOL
yeah, I just love pointing out that word!
I’m a teacher…….
by Realist Larry on Apr 17, 2009 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Romo
did not lose that game AS QB, I think we all agree on that.
Even Romo blamed himself for the loss – which was not necessary, but a class act.
I’m hoping this year he improves. I think he will. He usually does.
For his sake, and ours, I hope that no game in 2009 that is lost, can be pinned on Romo.
That’d be sweet. Especially if we win a playoff game; then he gets the monkey off his back and we go on to bigger and better things.
That’s the plan – now Romo – go make it happen.
I never felt worse for an athlete
than I felt for Romo that game. You could see, on TV, how shiny and slick that football was.
I agree with Terry that there’s no guarantee that the Cowboys would have won that game with a successful kick, but still.
These players are human beings. I felt terrible for Tony and I think he handled that situation with complete class and dignity.
+1 aside from the slick football excuse
here was the guy who after a monumental collapse after we were up 6 after a defensive stand on the goal line, which he had NOTHING to do with, brought this team back down to seattles end, had a legit chance to win and made a once in a lifetime mistake that blew it. And even then, if grammatica throws a half hearted block, Romo scores, adding to the long list of amazing, spontaneous/lucky plays that went his way throughout his career.
Each play has so much surrounding it...
Everyone talks about the bobbled snap. No one talks about the great pass to Witten to get them in position to kick. No one talks about the stubborness of Tuna and his inability to open up the offense against a very depleted Seachicken secondary.
And as for the bobble, if Grammatica just falls down at the right time, Romo runs the ball in for a TD and is a hero.
Nope, I blast Romo as much as anyone (ask Terry) when he forces balls and does bonehead things, but he missed a wet ball and still almost made magic. I don’t pin that loss on Tony.
"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Does Romo make some 'boneheaded' plays?
Sure he does. Just like most NFL QB’s. Maybe not the Brady’s and Manning’s (as much) but they all do.
Most NFL teams and cities and fans would KILL to have a Tony Romo under center.
Agreed
I like alot of the things you say btw, I just think you come off as too aggressive at times.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
And the best thing about Irvin
was that he knew where all the class A hos and really great coke could be found. What a class act.
So what.....
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