Cowboys Draft '09 -- Pick Four, Part Deux
by Rafael Vela on Apr 21, 2009 12:46 PM CDT
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PrintI just spoke to a source about Dallas' draft plans, and learned the following:
-- 23 reasons to pick in the 1st. This year's board assigns 23 first rounds grades. That means Dallas would have at least three players with first round grades on the board had it kept the 20th pick. But at what position?
Last year, the team picked 22nd and 28th, when 21 players carried first round grades. Dallas considered themselves fortunate when Felix Jones and Mike Jenkins, two players with top-20 grades, fell to them.
-- Pick four: This year, Dallas starts at 51. I understand they feel confident they'll have "three or four quality players available to them when they pick." There are players they prefer, players we've discussed on here for weeks, but my interpretation of the info I'm hearing is Dallas will sit tight, unless a player with a very high grade begins to fall. Case in point -- Martellus Bennett had a top-30 grade last year and there was some desire to trade up higher into the 2nd round and snag him once he started to drift past the early 40s. Dallas waited and got their guy at 61.
If a player with a grade that high slips this year, I doubt the Cowboys will sit on their hands. That said, they appear to have a plan to maximize the value of those 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks. Go over the lists of visits and over the rumored players of interest and you'll see multiple names, all at positions of need, which fit every pick -- 51st, 69th, 101st, 117th.
This means you should not force feed a position or positions in your mental mocks. Look at safety. They have names for 51, 69 and down the line. Same with receiver. Same with linebackers. Same with offensive linemen, and so on.
I'll repeat what I wrote a couple of weeks ago. The key is to hit on at least four players. Where they play is out of Dallas' control, but as long as the Cowboys get four football players, they'll move in the right direction, even if some positions of need go unfilled. And let me repeat, some will go unfilled. That's just the way drafts work.
-- Football players first. I've been collecting draft books for 20 years. Going back over the bumper Jimmy Johnson drafts of the early '90s, I saw one constant -- many of the players J.J. brought in fell into the "overachiever" category.
The weaker Jerry 1.0 drafts of the late '90s and early '00s had their own constant. Many of the draftees fell into the "boom or bust" category. Jerry was not afraid to take gambles, but too many times he rolled snake eyes.
The names I'm seeing this year fall all rate highly as football players. The Delmas, McBaths, Robiskes, Massaquois, Brinkleys, Sidburys, McGees, are all tough guys who love to play the game. They're all football players.
I don't know which set of them will be picked, but I'm happy to not see character risks or projects. Drafting is hard enough as it is.
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Great stuff Raf
23 seems like a lot of first round graded players, and you got to imagine that all the clubs will have different grades on different players. Raf, do you think if one of those 23 falls to the second we’ll trade up?
What I have read...
…indicates that there’s not a huge gap between the top of the first round talent and the bottom this year. There is some first round depth, but there isn’t that spectacular top tier of talent. So on Dallas’ board, they might view the #7 player and the #22 player out of those 23 first rounders to be relatively close. Which would’ve put our old picking slot, #20, in a great value spot. But we got RW for that one, so now I guess it’s a matter of hoping one of those 23 drops a bit.
Still, I have to think we’d need to move from #51 if we want a shot at any of those 23 first rounders. At #51, I’m sure we’ll have some quality players available to us, but a first-round caliber talent seems like a stretch.
Larry Allen benched 700 pounds. That is Leonard Davis times two.
right, but did you see the Broaddus clip I linked to yesterday?
He proposed a deal to trade up with the Rams at 35.
Let’s say, for arguments sake, that Sean Smith has one of those last 1st round grades, and that
he’s on the board at 35.
You would try to move up, no?
How many big CBs in this draft?
The WRs are getting bigger. Randy Moss used to be a freak, he still it, now every other year there’s somebody comes out with similar measurables. Likewise TO was a freak, every year multilple big body WRs are coming out.
You wonder why our CBs are breaking down, I suspect the WRs have a lot to do with it.
I like the section about...
not all needs will be filled.
Too many people freak out when a need isn’t filled.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
quincyyy,
maybe. If it’s a position they need, I’m sure they’ll make some phone calls.
But it takes two to tango. You need a trade partner who won’t try to hold you up for the jump.
Considering the Cowboys board is down to about 100 players
Are you confident that players from the Cowboys list are still available in the 7th and UDFA?
Or better phrased
what happens at the bottom of the draft when most of the players the Cowboys have rated are picked? What does it entail to be rated as a 7th rounder, or 6th?
Since the Boys have a lot of picks, I still expect about 9 choices no matter what trades, is there ever a time where the Cowboys try some sort of shot gun method at an unfilled roster spot?
Or is the 7th round about picking anybody you see has dropped?
by AustonianAggie on Apr 21, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions
don't be afraid of this
Romo had a 5th round grade and was signed as a UFA.
Dallas will have players on their list who are still on the board when the seven rounds are over.
thats exactly right
If you construct your own draft board of the best 50 players in the draft, I guarantee there will be some players still available when the draft opens up on Sunday for rds 3-7.
In Romo we Trust
Remember the Redskins in the Seventh Last Year
They hit on a Pro Bowl safety that projects to be a star; we had the first pick in the sixth round and whiffed.
Sounds like a good approach
Many of our needs as mentioned are back ups . If we have to those could be filled with roster cuts as time goes on. There is a lot of mid round talent this year, how that translates onto the field who knows. Jerry must think that we can find the players we want to some extent. Bring on the draft.
Mac Engel has an article at the Star-Telegram
that pretty much sums up what Raf is saying…that the Cowboys are going after football players who fit a certain mold which is tough, hard nosed players with good football intelligence. Don’t look at the 40 times, bench presses, wonderlics, throw all that combine garbage out the window.
Look at tape and who produced on the field and you’ll see who the Cowboys will draft this weekend. The great part, at least according to the article and maybe Raf can confirm this with his sources, is that Ciskowski will essentially run the draft using his board, making the draft essentially Jerry proof of the Qunicy Carter type debacles.
http://www.star-telegram.com/329/story/1328630.html
In Romo we Trust
That's pretty intelligent
Considering that for the most part that is what the Patriots have done as well.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
This is a great change in philosophy for the Cowboys.
It is a 180-degree from the flash of Deion Sanders and Terrell Owens. I will be very happy if this is truly the direction they go.
Hey don't you badmouth Primetime.
"If your good at something never do it for free." - The Joker
by houseofprime on Apr 21, 2009 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Deion's lame
Guy’s one of the biggest idiots on TV.
Epic Fail since 1985
by the red scare on Apr 21, 2009 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Deion's a good analyst, tells it like it is.
I just talking bout how great a football player he was though.
"If your good at something never do it for free." - The Joker
by houseofprime on Apr 21, 2009 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh
He was in fact a great player. Easily amongst top 5 most electrifying players ever. Really entertaining.
But as an analyst, he’s awful. And it has nothing to do with the perceived notion he was bashing Dallas, either. I don’t mind any of that. I can handle harsh truths. I just hate his style, I suppose. Same thing with Jamie Dukes and Warren Sapp. Just really really bad insight that adds nothing to any program they happen to be on. Ugh.
Epic Fail since 1985
by the red scare on Apr 22, 2009 3:37 AM CDT up reply actions
I believe in 40 times and weight/heights to an extent
because they allow you some modicrum of comparision across competition levels. For example, my wishlist player Lawerence Sidbury probably doesn’t have enough game film against relevant opponents. Neither would of Demarcus Ware.
That said, I don’t know what scouts are actually looking at in game film
by AustonianAggie on Apr 21, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions
whether the guy can play
the scouts look for production, is the player making plays. Ware made plays in college, I haven’t seen enough tape of Sidbury to know that for sure.
In Romo we Trust
he made plays - and Troy plays some big schools now and then
Jason Hatcher had 10 sacks his senior year in college, but he hasn’t really come on as the player I expected
by AustonianAggie on Apr 21, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
thats why the draft is a crapshoot
you really never know what you’re going to get. If you hit on half, you’re doing great.
In Romo we Trust
I agree about production...
…but Pat Fitzgerald was the Bednarik national linebacker of the year TWICE at Northwestern. The guy flat out produced. And he went undrafted, and he himself said that he wasn’t too surprised. You need a certain set of physical tools to be able to compete at the next level, with NFL athletes.
I’d say those tools are the minimum stakes for entering the game, and then production, work ethic, intelligence, etc. goes a long way towards separating all the different guys who have those minimum standard abilities.
Larry Allen benched 700 pounds. That is Leonard Davis times two.
No one but Jerry
can “Jerry proof” the board. He owns the team and is the general manager. Therefore, if Cisnowski runs the board and it is followed, it is only because that is what Jerry decided should happen. If that is a good approach, it is Jerry’s good approach. Yes, Jerry has been a gambler on talent over character. If the Cowboys are reversing that approach to value character and play on the field over measurables and raw talent, it is only because Jerry learned that is a better approach. So, Cisnowski running the draft is not “Jerry proofing” but a sign that Jerry has matured as a general manager and deserves the credit for the new approach just as he deserves the blame for the old one.
Yep
I agree with swidge.
Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.
Cowboys like Barden
Cowboys | Showing consistent interest in Barden
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Mon, 20 Apr 2009 18:06:08 -0700
Ed Thompson, of Scout.com, reports Cal-Poly WR Ramses Barden said the Dallas Cowboys are one of the teams showing the most consistent interest in him over the past few months.
Or Keyshawn jr
but dont we need more of a burner type, maybe return punts. I would like Mike Wallace in the mid rounds. Barden sounds like a nice posession guy but NFL corners might eat him up
He'd be cool but I don't see how he falls to Dallas in the late second
Or that he’d be the highest priority there; maybe though – he’d have to be Dallas’ first pick
by AustonianAggie on Apr 21, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions
no, Barden will be available in the mid rounds
I seriously doubt anyone takes him in the second or even the third.
In Romo we Trust
I'm reading the Raiders would if they don't take Crabtree
by AustonianAggie on Apr 21, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
thats funny because they covet speed
and Barden isn’t a burner, but a posession guy.
In Romo we Trust
yeah and when it comes down to it
random irrational agents are even harder to predict than random rational agents so what ever people predict the raiders doing is probably wrong
by AustonianAggie on Apr 21, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Ramses is a 3rd rounder
No higher, not much lower. I think it would take Dallas’s 3rd rounder to get him.
I'm getting the impression
that someone is going to take him in the 2nd round. I think if the Giants pass on WR round 1, they take him in the 2nd. Seems like a lot of teams are showing interest.
by NerdVernacular on Apr 21, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I have contended all along that it won't suprise me one bit if the Giants select him in round 1....
If they don’t get B Edwards in a trade….wait and see…
That would be a huuuuuuge
reach. That organization isn’t that stupid, they’d trade down or just wait until later.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
that would be the biggest reach in league history
yeah, I agree, the GMen aren’t that stupid.
In Romo we Trust
+1 I've been eye ballin' Barden from the get go, a few years back...Williams,Witten,Bennett, and Barden in the red zone would be virtuely unstoppable...great to hear they're interested...
Barden is the Biggest and BEST blocking WR in the draft….i would not be disappointed in the selection of this guy for sure…They would have to trade up with their first 4th rounder to the mid 3rd rd. to secure him though….IF he even lasts that long..
just imagine this guy (6’6" 230lbs) blocking outside against a 5’10" 190lb CB, with Felix coming around on a sweep being escorted by Cricket, (Witten or Bennett) and Columbo…….80 yards and a plume of dust….wooo hoooo..
Nobody takes Barden in first day
Crabtree, Maclin, Harvin, Heyward-Bey, Britt, Nicks, Robiskie, Williams, Iglasias and Murphy will likely be drafted ahead of Barden.
Barden is not Burress, and he’s not Meshawn. Why take an untested Barden so early when Patrick Turner from USC can be had so late. They are the same big slow possesion WR. Nobody could stop 6-5 230, Mike Williams, is he even in the league?
Todd McShay's mock draft, 7 rounder
51. Patrick Chung
69. Asher Allen
101. Louis Murphy
117. Herman Johnson
156. Zach Follett
166. Pannel Egboh
172. Alex Boone
197. Josh Mauga
208. Mike Wallace
210. Terrance Kingston
227. Roger Allen
this is what i do...i guarantee.
Uggg...
I’m not going to lie, I’m not a fan of it.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
Would not inspire me
Can live with Chung not preferred
no to Allen, Murphy , Johnson, Follett and Egboh
Boone too soon and issues
Mauga neh
Wallace Ok
Kingston do you mean Knighton ? OK
Allen Ok
Some players but not really good.
I'd be screaming at the television
with the exception of the Herman Johnson and Roger Allen picks..
by NerdVernacular on Apr 21, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions
This is how I see it...
Chung- Good pick
Allen- not a big fan
Louis Murphy- not a big fan… too many Florida receivers bust, and Murphy was never that great
Herman Johnson- in the fourth round its a good pick
Follett- He is a football player, not big or fast enough but makes plays
Egboh- meh
Boone- Was a first rounder last year, could become decent
Mauga-meh
Wallace- Very nice pick
Knighton- Good pick
Allen- good pick..
Overall its a decent draft
by nicholas.rodriguez on Apr 21, 2009 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Both Herman Johnson and Alex Boone are going to be busts
Herman is too slow footed to play tackle and too tall to play guard. Plus you have to worry about his weight getting out of control.
Alex Boone is a look like Tarzan plays like Jane type. Plus he has major off the field issues. I am willing to give people a second chance like Baker, who has done everything right leading up to the draft. However, Boone screwed up big time this off season. What knucklehead who has had problems in the past would screw up again during the drafting process. I would take him completely off my board if I was the Cowboys.
+1
I hope the Cowboys don’t have either on their boards.
April 25-26 -- NFL Draft
by APerfectStar on Apr 21, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Herman Johnson is 6'7"
Leonard Davis 6’6"
Robert Gallery 6’7"
Alan Faneca 6’5"
Mike Wahle 6’6"
Derrick Dockery 6’6"
…all guards.
Johnson would be fine as a guard… that’s pretty much why he played guard in college.
How do you think Jeff Garcia was able to play behind an O-Line with no lineman under 6’3", including Davin Joseph 6’3", Jeff Faine 6’3", and Jeremy Trueblood 6’8"?
Short QBs see the “lanes” or “alleys” inbetween the lineman. Ask Steve Young. He’ll tell you.
I really don't like Chung.
I want a safety whos not completely incompetent when it comes to covering Wr’s.
"If your good at something never do it for free." - The Joker
by houseofprime on Apr 21, 2009 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I doubt
Chung will last til the third.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by AirforceBat on Apr 22, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Some Mocks have Chung going earlier than 3rd round
Round 2, 50 to CLE – http://walterfootball.com/draft2009_2.php
Round 2, 51 to DAL – http://www.thefootballexpert.com/mockdraft2.html
Round 2, 48 to DEN – http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Mock-Draft-2.php
Round 2, 51 to DAL – http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/2009/2009_nfl_mock_draft.cfm?writer=33&page=5
but I’ve also read some with him going in round 3.
It could go either way
Yep
he’s been all over the map
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
I should be on TV
51. Michael Johnson 3-4 DE, start eating!
69. Eric Wood C
101. Chris Baker NT
117. David Bruton S
156. Frantz Joseph ILB
166. Captain Munnerlyn CB
172. Alex Boone OT
197. Louis Vasquez OG
208. Chris Clemons S
210. Mike Wallace WR
227. Dan Gronkowski TE
There's a joke in that statement
But I’ll leave it alone.
April 25-26 -- NFL Draft
by APerfectStar on Apr 22, 2009 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions
actually the ending isn't bad
Mike Wallace WR 6’, 199, and he’s been clocked in the 4.2’s can somebody say “Bullet” Bob Hayes? (okay I’m not completely serious, but trying to get the next “Bullet” can’t be bad right) Anyways I really like Mike.
It’s actually
Terrence Knighton, DT out ot Temple he’s a good athlete and he could be developed into a pretty decent player.
Roger Allen, OG, read quincyyy’s pimp your pet cat post on Allen and if you don’t like him, you should probably see a doctor
However, the beginning does suck
Patrick Chung, I wouldn’t totally hate this pick if Sidbury and Gilbert and OTHER BETTER PLAYERS were on the board, I’d have drafted Sidbury, Asher Allen, ugh there are better players on McShay’s board if we did this I’d be asking why until according to McShay we draft Louis Murphy, bust!!!!! Hermann Johnson, huge blob, can be lazy, is immobile, and isn’t nasty, enough said, bust!!!!!!, Zach Follett, why draft him, he’s not athletic enough to do anything other than… bust!!!!!!! Egboh, not bad but too early, Boone, I’m a Buckeyes fan, I watched their last three bowl games all the Michigan games etc. it all points to…wait for it…bust!!!!!!, Josh Mauga, not bad but too early
by The Triplets on Apr 22, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Damn
I am excited for this draft.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
I kind of like the McDraft
Position wise, he hits all the targets. Chung at #51 might be a little early, but lets say we trade back a few to trade up a little later. CB Allen in the 3rd is also a little early. 2 mid-round WRs is what I’m hoping for and this works for me – Louis Murphy and Mike Wallace. Murphy has the height and Wallace the speed – he’s one of the top return guys in the draft. I’m not crazy about Herman Johnson, but in the 4th round I would applaud that selection. Boone, Kingston and Allen are all projects that are worth the gamble. I’m not real familiar with Egboh and Mauga. They sound like a law firm I would want to stay away from.
Has nothing to do with this...
But don’t you know that Cincy has to be kicking themselves for not trading Chad Johnson for a first rounder and like a third this year.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
Last year that is
to Washington.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
Nah they are seriously kicking themselves...
they could have had 2 first rounders last year from Washington
by nicholas.rodriguez on Apr 21, 2009 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh is that what it was...
Man I knew it was something crazy. That is nuts.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
It was ridiculous to turn down that offer
They wish they could get half that much now.
April 25-26 -- NFL Draft
by APerfectStar on Apr 21, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions
They aren't
getting a first rounder for him.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
Josh Freeman
Might be the toughest guy in the entire draft to project, I have seen that dude all over the map.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
I've read they really like H-back/TE James Casey.
Would they dare take another TE?
"If your good at something never do it for free." - The Joker
Well heres a link to back me up.
"If your good at something never do it for free." - The Joker
by houseofprime on Apr 21, 2009 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Great Info
I’ll repeat what I wrote a couple of weeks ago. The key is to hit on at least four players. Where they play is out of Dallas’ control, but as long as the Cowboys get four football players, they’ll move in the right direction, even if some positions of need go unfilled. And let me repeat, some will go unfilled. That’s just the way drafts work.
.
I’ll admit I waqs one of those guys who expected Dallas to fill every hole via the draft. Thank you for bringing me down to reality. I am with you Raf give me 4 solid players and I will be happy.
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
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