Cowboys Must Stop the Bleeding at Safety
by Carl Shelton (GloryDayz88) on Apr 22, 2009 12:53 PM CDT
in Draft
150 comments
January 3, 2004. To most Cowboy fans this date signifies the Cowboys 29-10 playoff loss to the eventual NFC champion Carolina Panthers. If you skim through the starting lineups from that game, you will find another significant footnote. In that game the Cowboys (#1 in total defense that season) started an aging yet still effective Darren Woodson, next to a young and dynamic Roy Williams at the safety positions. That game, five full seasons ago, was the last time the Cowboys have been able to line up with a capable safety tandem.
In the five seasons that have elapsed since the last time Williams and Woodson lined up together, the Cowboys have started 7 players at the two safety positions. Tony Dixon, Lynn Scott, Keith Davis, Pat Watkins, Willie Pile, and Ken Hamlin have all gotten a shot at lining up next to Williams. Of that group, Hamlin is the only player whose play could even be described as adequate. Unfortunately for the Cowboys, by the time Hamlin arrived in 2007, Williams had eroded and become a walking bullseye for opposing offensive coordinators.
In the years since Woodson’s departure, the Cowboys have on average ranked 15th in the NFL in pass defense. In that same time span, the Cowboys’ defense has surrendered an annual average of 39.4 plays of 20 or more yards, and 11.6 plays of more than 40. In recent years, the Cowboy defense has been terrorized by tight ends, and been particularly vulnerable in the deep middle portion of the secondary.
The scariest part of this whole thing is the fact as crippling as poor safety play has been to the Cowboys, the team has not exhausted many draft picks or free agent dollars in addressing this longstanding deficiency. The Cowboys have spent only two draft picks on safeties in the post-Woodson era. In 2005, the team spent a 6th round selection on Ball State’s Justin Beriault. The following year, the team took Pat Watkins of Florida State in the 5th round. Five drafts, and only a 5th and a 6th spent on safeties. The Cowboys have not seriously addressed the issue via free agency either. In 2006 the team brought in 33-year old Marcus Coleman, who did not stick due to off-the-field issues. Ken Hamlin has a big contract now, but in 2007 he was originally only signed to a 1-year "show me" deal, coming off of a major head injury.
My point is as follows: The Cowboys have been hamstrung by mediocre safety play for a very long time. The team has other needs, but let’s get this thing solved once and for all. If Western Michigan safety Louis Delmas really is the guy the Cowboys love, then the team has got to make it happen. Don’t wait, don’t screw around, just go get him. If all indications point to Delmas coming off the board before the Cowboys first selection, then move up and get this dude to Valley Ranch. The Cowboys most certainly have the ammunition to move up and secure their guy. And if round 4 or 5 rolls around, and the Cowboys see another safety they like still on the board, I say take him too.
If there has been one factor in recent years that has kept the Cowboys’ defense from reaching it’s full potential, it has been safety play. The acquisition of Gerald Sensabaugh was a good start, but the Cowboys can not stop there. Of course the Cowboys have to get proper value for their picks, but they have got to bring home a safety or two regardless. Recent history considered, the Cowboys’ chief priority in this year’s draft should be finding a way to stop the bleeding in the secondary.
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lame.
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
by ivysafety39 on Apr 22, 2009 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm still not sold on...
delmas. watching some tape on him today, he is one out-of-control dude. i believe campo will have to spend a lot of time holding him back so as not to bite onthe play action game.
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
by ivysafety39 on Apr 22, 2009 12:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't mind
getting McBath or William Moore either.. but I’d be pretty disappointed if we didn’t land one of those three. I suppose Rashad Johnson wouldn’t be too bad.
by NerdVernacular on Apr 22, 2009 1:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Delmas is clearly the best safety...
He came from a small school,. but he showed up at the Senior Bowl and was a leader immediately and the general of the defense…He’s relentless, strong, doesn’t mind coming up and helping in the run game and is a very hard hitter, but he can cover out of the slot and is the ideal centerfielder.
I really like Jarron Gilbert too, but getting Delmas would be a steal, he wouldn’t even have to step in as a starter so next year we can let Sensabaugh make his big pay day and draft more depth.
Don’t see how you can’t like this guy, you can cross off guys like Moore and Chunge who can’t cover.
I’m pretty sure we won’t be taking another safety that we have to mask his coverage issues, we are likely to take a tweener before either of those two.
by LonghornsLegend on Apr 22, 2009 1:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
would hardly call 12 reps of 225lbs....strong
add to the 12 wonderlic….you’ve got questions.,.
by My_2_Cents on Apr 22, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oooh, 12 reps is weak.
"I see the door, I just get off on running through the wall." - Young Tripp
by Carl Shelton (GloryDayz88) on Apr 22, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol..i'm an old man (twice his age) and put up three sets of that daily...
by My_2_Cents on Apr 22, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and you probably outweigh him by a ton
12 reps at 200 lbs isn’t horrible
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 22, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It IS horrible for any supposed NFL level player.....I was doing more in high school when i weighed 160lb-185lbs...c'mon...
i don’t think anyone under 15 reps should even be an NFL Safety prospect…but that’s me..
FS with similiar builds to Delmas:
D Pegues-23
E Cook-18
C Clemons-18
R Johnson-15
CB’s that I’ve posted that should be drafted to play this FS spot everyone seems to be clammering about-
Victor Harris- n/a
Keenan Lewis- 19
Bradley Fletcher-20
Glover Quin- 22
J Word-Daniels- 24
Other CB’s of interest-
A Allen – 22
J Burnett- 22
D Carey- 18
C Fancies-25
the list goes on and on….I think there were about a dozen of the 350+ draft eligible players that lifted 12 reps or less…..
hmmmm………
Scouting Director-Tom C is looking for strength,toughness and smarts ??
12 reps of 225lbs + 12 wonderlic score + 5’11" 190lbs.-203 = dumb pip squeak with only 5 INT’s in his past 23+ games…
not too appealing to me…
give me a real Strong Safety like Will Moore, Pat Chung, or Chip Vaughn anyday…..
by My_2_Cents on Apr 22, 2009 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what does a guys bench press have to do with
his ability to hit?? Absolutely nothing, thats what. Look at the tape, the kid can bring the wood, what he benches means nothing.
You place way too much weight on measureables, throw that junk out, it means nothing. Its what you do on the field that counts.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 22, 2009 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and all the guys listed hit just as hard/in not harder, and are clearly stronger....measurables gets you drafted.....tape...you've seen tape ??...please submit this tape of yours via link for all to see.......
and when i’m in Fern’s Creek Kentucky or some other cow poke town like it , I’ll go check out the competition he played against for 4 years because he was too stupid and small to qualify for a Div 1 school…
by My_2_Cents on Apr 22, 2009 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
measureables only get you drafted by moronic GMs
who don’t stay employed very long. Good GMs and scouts draft players off of tape and production, not combine numbers.
Yeah, I guess guys like Walter Payton, Jerry Rice and DeMarcus Ware were too stupid and not good enough to play for a div I-A school….thats has to be one of the dumbest things anyone has ever said on this blog.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 22, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
here you go resorting to name calling insinuating i'm dumb...i guess a 3.74 gpa in engineering makes me a dummy..guess we can't use gpa to assess intelligence either..huh ?
he’s is a wet rag, a CB wanna be , who couldn’t cut it, and was shifted to FS…..I’ve seen this so called “tape” you keep refering to…in fact i’ve seen hundreds of hours of “tape” of football players , and visually assessed 1,000’s of more “live” games over the years…i think i have a pretty good general idea of what’s solid play for for an NFL Free Safety…ironic how you list probable HOF guys…none of which were small, dumb, or weak like Delmas…
by My_2_Cents on Apr 22, 2009 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never insinuated anything
Saying a player is stupid and sucks because he went to a small college is simply a dumb statement, I don’t care how intelligent of a person is who actually says it.
Bottom line is that the Cowboys share my opinion of Delmas, not yours, thats all anyone really needs to know, really.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 22, 2009 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol....i hope your right..I hope he's the best available FS in round 2....cuz he'll be gone by #51, and we won't need to worry about it...
Then Ken Hamlin can go back to being our FS with no distaste from the minority hung up on this overhyped pedestrian Safety…We could then focus on what we really need,
which is a Strong Safety…that is a terror against the run, and has the coverage ability to work the underneath zones, and cover a TE, RB’s, and an occasional slot guy in the intermediate middle area….
that’s all……
by My_2_Cents on Apr 22, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
safeties have to play both positions
in todays NFL, pigeon holing players for strong or free isn’t the way to go.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 22, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously?
We’re seriously going to throw GPA’s out there?
A…..LITTLE over the top.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by AirforceBat on Apr 22, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and I didn't, I said your statement was dumb, huge difference
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 22, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
btw...I happen to go/play at a previous Div 1-aa school myself.....obviously not my point that all that go there are dummies...
but i sure would love to know his major, and gpa…then put that next to his wonderlic….gives you a pretty good determination of intelligence…..
have gone to – past tense..
by My_2_Cents on Apr 22, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wonderlic means nothing
Bret Favray and Vinnie GreenHead QBed for about 30 years each because of thier Wonderlics?
by birdness on Apr 22, 2009 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you know as well as I do
that book smarts and intelligence is different than football intelligence.
I don’t care if Delmas has a low IQ, I just know he has great football intelligence and great instincts for the position, thats all that really matters.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 23, 2009 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I...
actually agree strongly.
There are a ton of good/great players from division II schools that have had great careers.
Some of them progress like crazy in college or they go to other schools because one of the major schools wanted them to play a certain position.
As far as the bench press goes… I don’t think that really matters. Unless you only arm tackle, which means you have poor technique anyways.
Besides you can always add upper body strength.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by AirforceBat on Apr 22, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comptition, try watching the Senior Bowl
Delmas played better than every other DB. Stupid and small still stood out amoung his Div 1 peers.
by birdness on Apr 22, 2009 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont think it has to do with how you hit
as much as it has to do with work ethic.
"I see the door, I just get off on running through the wall." - Young Tripp
by Carl Shelton (GloryDayz88) on Apr 22, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
co-sign
Celebrity or Imposter?
YOU Decide...
http://www.xanga.com/metaltometal/689036052/celebrity-or-imposter/
by silverblue5 on Apr 22, 2009 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know guys that weight 170 lbs that can put up 225 on a straight bar over 25 times....
12 reps is WEAK!!
by Boyzfan94 on Apr 23, 2009 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, but can they play football and can they hit?
bench pressing has absolutely nothing to do with bringing the wood as a DB and tackling, it’s called functional strength and its not measured by pumping iron.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 23, 2009 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't totally disagree with you,
but. If he is covering a TE/RB and they figure out they can blow through him on a pass route, then that bench press will look very important.
When did I become a Cowboy fan? When my mom told me I was.
by GunsUp on Apr 23, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
bench presses are just like 40 times, extremely overrated.
Throw out the combine garbage and just and see if the kid can play football. thats what really matters.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 23, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question.
Didn’t Felix only do 9 reps last year?
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
by Wmillion on Apr 22, 2009 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does Felix make tackles for a living? I think not...
The kid is weak plain and simple……
by Boyzfan94 on Apr 23, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and again, how is tackling related to benching??
Answer..it isn’t. Tacking is about will and determination as well as technique, it has absolutely nothing to do with how many times you can press 225 lbs off your chest.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 23, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cross off guys like Moore and Chunge
Everybody’s a draft expert. Who wanted to cross off Michael Huff because he couldn’t cover – NOBODY!
Can anybody really say which safety prospect can cover a NFL player like Witton, Moss or Westbrook? I can’t nor am I alone, GMs and scouts skrew this up every year.
Maybe Moore and Chunge can’t cover as well as Delmas, but they can both cover better than the SS we had here the last 5 years – THONG!
by birdness on Apr 22, 2009 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You guys need to get your facts straight because Chung can cover as well as hit...
Listening to Gil Brandt on Sirus Radio tonight he likes Chung for the Cowboys and it appears we have some interest in him according to what he said.
by Boyzfan94 on Apr 23, 2009 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1....Moore certainly can as well....
I’d prefer Moore or Chung over Delmas…….
by My_2_Cents on Apr 23, 2009 12:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They only say
Chung can’t cover WRs, they say he can cover TEs well… And he is the best Safety in terms of ST help, and What to do with Hamlin, some don’t think he can play SS so what do we do with his 5 years left. We need to get a SS and a backup/nickel free safety. We should get Chung and then Bruton w/ our later 4th round pick or Marcus McClinton from Kentucky with a 6th or 7th.
by nicholas.rodriguez on Apr 22, 2009 1:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Chung
gets compared to Roy Williams a lot. I guess because of his coverage skills. But if he plays like a young Roy Williams, hell I’ll take that all day.
I’d rather have a true NT though, like Brace. Only if our scouts feel he is a good player, if they do, we should get him.
by DoomsdayD75 on Apr 22, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why Brace?
Why not give up 2010 7th round choice to take Gabe Watson off the Cardinals hands. Brace might be great, but look at the facts, he’s big and slow, he benefitted from playing next to the best DT in the draft.
I don’t like him at #51, there are several NT prospects that can be had later. These guys have decent size and some motor too.
by birdness on Apr 22, 2009 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because
we won’t have a complete defense until we have a true nose tackle. Since we missed out on the Shaun Rogers boat, we need to find one in the draft.
We are going to have to draft NT’s higher than normal from now on, because many teams have switched to the 3-4. So we’d still be reaching with the guys you suggest taking.
by DoomsdayD75 on Apr 23, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Covering TEs isn't a THE TOP priority
Only 19 different TEs caught balls against our DEF last year, compared to 27 RBs and 49 WRs.
Of the 19 TEs, Only ONE caught for 100+ yards; and that was Carlson (SEA)
Teams are playing a lot of 3 and 4 WR sets – if Chung can only cover a TE he is very limited
Having said that; we will face Cooley (WAS), Boss (NYG), and Celek (PHI) twice this year.
Last year these guys only averaged marginal yards against our defense and have little “fear factor”
37.5 yards per game vs DAL – Cooley
26.5 yards per game vs DAL – Boss
24.5 yards per game vs DAL – Celek
by BishopWest on Apr 22, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
More I read and follow the draft
I like McBath over Chung. Give me the cover skills over the hitting..
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
by Wmillion on Apr 22, 2009 1:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Redefintion of the safety position
I’m a little ignorant on the the fine points of the roles and responsibilities of the DBs. It seems that the position of safety – both strong and free, has been slowly evolving.
In years past (like when Roy Williams was a rookie), the position was more like a faster linebacker, primarily to provide run support but expected to have some coverage responsibility (e.g., deep zone). This was especially true for the strong safety.
Now it seems that the role is more like a cornerback that can provide run support.
If that is the case (and I’m probably wrong), wouldn’t it be a better approach to draft one of the larger, good-tackling CBs and convert him to the safety position? It seems that that is the way the position is evolving, so let the Cowboys lead the way.
by doomsdayreturns on Apr 22, 2009 1:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
dooms you are on the money...FS is a physical CB that can hold his own in run support...on another post i listed CB's that would provide that:
Sean Smith
Jairus Byrd
Victor Harris
Sharrod Martin
Keenan Lewis
Bradley Fletcher
Glover Quin
ALL of these CB’s are better than Delmas/Johnson/McBath in coverage of WR’s…and all of them are as big, or are bigger, stronger, as/more physical, and as fast as this overhyped FS class….
by My_2_Cents on Apr 22, 2009 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just my 1 cent
But I have a feeling the Cowboys will draft either J. Byrd or B. Fletcher or S.Martin depending on which one is available at the spot they have them on their draft board.
April 25-26 -- NFL Draft
by APerfectStar on Apr 22, 2009 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol....nice...my two bits....those mentioned could be had in the 3rd-4th, and present equal talent and better value...Byrd at #69 would be great...
plus it takes care of punt returner…
by My_2_Cents on Apr 22, 2009 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Byrd definitely fits Ciskowski's prerequisites
Smart, Tough, as well as a play maker. He’s my favorite out of the group you mentioned.
April 25-26 -- NFL Draft
by APerfectStar on Apr 22, 2009 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sean Smith is physical
He did 10 reps
Malcom Jenkins, concensus first round did 15
Jairus Byrd, ICU
Nacho Harris didn’t lift
Sherrod Martin 12 reps
Darcel McBath did 14
William Moore did 16.
by birdness on Apr 22, 2009 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is a tangent but...
How many WRs do you actually think will be drafted in the first round?
I say 3: crab, maclin, heyward.
If this is true, I think we need to definitely move up and snatch hakeem nicks. The dude is incredible. I visited UNC twice this year, and his hands are amazing.
by yesAlanTuring on Apr 22, 2009 1:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think 4
add either Hakeem Nicks or Kenny Britt.
by NerdVernacular on Apr 22, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I say 5
because I don’t think Percy slips out of the 1st round.
by DoomsdayD75 on Apr 23, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Take Dalmas if he is there.
Don’t trade up for him. Chung, McBath and Johnson would suffice if he is picked and you might get two or all three in the 3rd . Leave the second for the oline.
by oldboysfan on Apr 22, 2009 2:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Glory, the issue isn't..
Drafting a safety, but rather will the safety be a starter. I don’t think a safety that we draft in the 2nd round would start even if it was Delmas. He may eventually be a starter. Myself I believe we should possibly go after Mcbath in the 3rd round and leave the second round pick as the “Let’s see what falls out of the first round” kind of pick. Since the safety we pick won’t start most likely anyway, and will have time to develop, here’s what I would like to see:
What if Sean Smith actually drops all the way to pick 51? I know alot of people actually don’t think he will, but he is pretty close to 51 as it is. I say we stand pat and let the draft bring us how we should go, because there are alot of players we can go with.
If Smith isn’t there, and Sintom is there, why wouldn’t you go after McBath in the 3rd instead and get the LB? There are quite a few different players that could seriously help us from the 2nd rd. , and I believe that we should let the 2nd rd. pick come to us. You may be very surprised. If we end up with an excellent draft this year glory, it will just about make-up for the better part of decade of draft botches. Do you want to become depressed Carl? Go look at the drafts frtom 2000-2005. I think you probably already have looked at those drafts.
Here is the real glorious question (pardon the pun): If Sean Smith is there at 51 and Percy Harvin, what do you do if you are Dallas? How about this as a second question to that: If you pick Sean Smith, would you still go after McBath?
"Amongst the enemy's Lair, there will always be a DallasPalace!"
by DallasPalace on Apr 22, 2009 2:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd take Smith, and still go with McBath
or go with a safety in the later rounds if he’s not available. Remember Jenkins and Scandrick last year? I’m sensing something similar at safety this year.
by mdlusk on Apr 22, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I honesty believe
that they wouldn’t take Harvin if he was there. Testing positive was just stupid. The cowboys have dealt with far too many stupid players over the years. I wouldn’t mind Sean Smith if he was our top pick on the board when 51 came and yes might be tempted to get McBath or Johnson later if available.
by oldboysfan on Apr 22, 2009 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to KFFL-
“The Dallas Cowboys held a private workout with University of Oklahoma S Lendy Holmes at an undisclosed date. "
by NerdVernacular on Apr 22, 2009 2:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
great...he ran like a 4.75-85 40yd....no thanks..next
by My_2_Cents on Apr 22, 2009 2:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow....
It’s good to know things like that! I would have never known the metrics, and that is exactly why I’m a blogger- to learn. Thanks My_2_Cents. Now I believe we should get both Sean Smith AND Darcel McBath! I just am not excited enough about Delmas and Chung to say they would be the best pick at 51, and I can’t quite put the finger on it. Too many other ways to go that would benefit thye Cowboys in other ways, making it a critical draft in my opinion. We can get over the hump if this is done correctly.
"Amongst the enemy's Lair, there will always be a DallasPalace!"
by DallasPalace on Apr 22, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he upped it to 4.5 in a workout in San Antonio
but I can’t name one Safety that actually had a good season in the Big 12 last year
by AustonianAggie on Apr 22, 2009 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spread offenses have
a tendency to make a safety look bad. And when you face 8 a year, you will look really bad.
When did I become a Cowboy fan? When my mom told me I was.
by GunsUp on Apr 23, 2009 7:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree Glory, if Delmas drops into the 2nd rd, you have to go get him
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 22, 2009 2:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i like delmas as well but
Can he last a 16 game season…he is injury prone…he plays bigger than he is…He is not abig guy physically…I do worry about injuries with him
by scandrick32 on Apr 22, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats the only reason he's a second rounder
From a production and talent standpoint, the kid is elite.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what production ?? i can rattle off a dozen safeties who had better statistical careers...
for a Delmas campaign manager…you sure are working hard trying to convince everyone this guy is the ONLY choice at FS……BUT….IF he is so good…why is he going to be there at # 51 ?
by My_2_Cents on Apr 22, 2009 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
as I said before
size and durability concerns, but in the 2nd rd, I think the reward outweighs the risk.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 22, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which FS gets picked before Delmas
A converted Sean Smith
by birdness on Apr 22, 2009 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you have to use picks to move up for a safety?
That’s not smart drafting.
Delmas is alright, but he’s not a superstar prospect. Plenty of other options available.
April 25-26 -- NFL Draft
by APerfectStar on Apr 22, 2009 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it would only take a 4th and we have 2
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 22, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not worth it
The 4th round picks are going to be valuable, #101 and #117 still good chances at finding future starters.
The Cowboys next pick isn’t until #156.
Don’t chase a safety in the 2nd round.
April 25-26 -- NFL Draft
by APerfectStar on Apr 22, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 Tom.....completely inbasilic to move up and waste a 4th to move up on a pedestrian DB...
only time to move up is on a potential first year immediate starter (which any DB wouldn’t)….I’d say ok to say OC/OG(Mack,Unger,Wood,Beatty), ILB NT(Raji,Hood), or OLB…maybe…..
If anything, we’ll trade down if it’s FS we covet (Byrd,Harris,Johnson,McBath,Martin) to late 2nd/early 3rd where value and talent is most prevailant.
by My_2_Cents on Apr 22, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, but after the GPA thing.
It is imbecilic.
When did I become a Cowboy fan? When my mom told me I was.
by GunsUp on Apr 23, 2009 7:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The kid bradley fletcher from iowa i like...maybe a move to fs would be a ideal fit
He kind of a freak on the field with his long arms and awesome athletic ability…but he has some character issues i hear…
by scandrick32 on Apr 22, 2009 2:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This is what I mean Scandreick32....
Too many other ways to go with the FS position to dedicate the 51st pick to it. It is wise to take a BPA with the second round pick. There are alot of positions to fill, and BPA will help us shape the draft at pick 51. It will give us the path we have to take to make the draft a success. I think Bradley Fletcher would be an awesome pick for us (he’s excellent).
Alot of people like Chung, others Delmas at 51. What if Smith, Chung, and Delmas are there at 51? i’d go with Smith personally.
"Amongst the enemy's Lair, there will always be a DallasPalace!"
by DallasPalace on Apr 22, 2009 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would also take smith and maybe get fletcher in the 4th rd...
In the 3rd rd maybe brinkly from s carolina…
by scandrick32 on Apr 22, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with the idea of getting more than one safety, why play around with this position anymore
get it sealed up and if anything you have depth if not a good starter or two from the draft.
Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!
by cowboy78 on Apr 22, 2009 3:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Do you think the Cowboys would only trade up for Delmas?
Any chance they would trade up for Sean Smith? Have they even brought him in for a workout?
by hiafex on Apr 22, 2009 3:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I hope Jerry doesn't move up beyond 40
It’s too expensive. There will be somebody at #51 and most likely there won’t be significant drop off for taking the next best at the position later – that is don’t reach for ‘the guy’
by birdness on Apr 22, 2009 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am sure they have S Smith graded higher....but I wouldn't trade up for either....
by My_2_Cents on Apr 22, 2009 3:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I seriously doubt they have Smith graded higher
he’s a classic tweener who is too slow to play CB and not tough enough to support the run as a safety.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 22, 2009 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmm...6'3 1/2" 215lbs with 35" arms, and 4.5 40.....or 5' 11" 193lbs with 31 1/2" arms and a 4.5 40......hard to choose...?
my money is on Smith in a fight (reach) to see who’s tougher…has the size and agility to cover better, and length and leaping ability to make more plays on the ball…
by My_2_Cents on Apr 22, 2009 3:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
again, measureables aren't the determing factor
in ranking players, ultimately good teams draft real football players who can play football, not workout warriors who look good in shorts.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 22, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smith has very good game footage
he’s played lights out against big schools
by AustonianAggie on Apr 22, 2009 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1...He is the best playmaking prospect of all the centerfield FS's...period...range, length, hands, height, vert, speed...he has it all...
by My_2_Cents on Apr 22, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think he's gone in the bottom of the 1st
he’s projected as a big CB, big bodied CBs are hard to find
by AustonianAggie on Apr 22, 2009 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh...Sean Smith doesn't look good on tape now ??
by My_2_Cents on Apr 22, 2009 3:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
not as good as Delmas obviously
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 22, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Am I just one of the few people on here...
that isn’t an expert on NFL scouting?
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by AirforceBat on Apr 22, 2009 3:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
LOL
I’m an amateur too.
April 25-26 -- NFL Draft
by APerfectStar on Apr 22, 2009 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well he's (Smith) rated higher by EVERY draft site on the web......explain ?
note* – I’m not that high on Smith either…but he surely exhibits more upside and secondary playmaking ability than Delmas…
by My_2_Cents on Apr 22, 2009 3:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Scott Wright
who you were bragging about before has Delmas as the 32nd best player in the draft. Smith isn’t in the top 31.
http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Rankings.php
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 22, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just did
and believe there are many others who have Delmas rated higher as well.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 22, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ahh.....I give up...you win...we're gonna pick Louis Delmas- S - W Michigan....write it down...
by My_2_Cents on Apr 22, 2009 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No someone else will hopefully....I'm with you My_2_Cents.......
He is overrated in a weak safety class….The same scouting report Terry references is the same one that says Delmas takes bad angles and avoids contact…Sounds like a combination of Roy “Thong” Williams and Jenkins to me…
by Boyzfan94 on Apr 23, 2009 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good analogy....the mediocre coverage skills of Roy, and the lack of physicality of Jenkins...
although I believe Jenkins would make a much better cover FS prospect (coverage, speed, playmaking abilities), and is the same size as Delmas, and I’m sure put up more than 12 reps…..
by My_2_Cents on Apr 23, 2009 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are the safety prospects like for next year (2010)?
If it is strong class,maybe grab mid/late-round talent for this season to solidify our depth. If we lose Sensei to FA, we have our draft pick (with some experience under his belt) and better options in a deeper class. I’m sure there are aspects that I’m overlooking but, whatcha think?
by GalTex on Apr 23, 2009 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that is a great question
April 25-26 -- NFL Draft
by APerfectStar on Apr 23, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone agrees with you but Valley Ranch
GD… what’s interesting about your post is that almost none of the comments disagree with the proposition that we need a good safety with one of our very top picks. The only dispute is who to pick. I’m also on board. We got two stud CB’s last year. Let’s take care of safety and have the secondary addressed for a few years.
What’s strikes me, however, is that Valley Ranch may not agree. Raf’s recent post that there are sources who say that we may possibly be taking a WR and a QB with two of our top three picks is almost a complete repudiation of what most of us think we must address — safety and O-line. Interesting. We’ll see what they really do soon enough.
by Boundforbeach on Apr 22, 2009 4:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Dallas will do fine.
I agree with you, I want to shore up S and O-line as well, as long as it isn’t reaching.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by AirforceBat on Apr 22, 2009 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually...
Delmas grades out higher than Smith on ESPN (McShay), Foxsports, NFLDraftcountdown, and a few others.
I personally like Smith alot because of his versatility, but it’s not like alot of people don’t like Delmas alot.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by AirforceBat on Apr 22, 2009 4:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sean is a CB, not a safety
and he’s like the 5th or 6th best CB prospect in the draft. He’s your classic CB/S tweener which lowers his ranking.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 22, 2009 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i believe that increases his value...versatility is a major plus.....
by My_2_Cents on Apr 22, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually it doesn't
because he’s not great at either position because he’s too slow to be a great CB and not tough or physical enough to support the run to be a great safety.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 22, 2009 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be happy either way dude.
You don’t need to tell me what Sean Smith is. I know. I can read websites just as good as anyone else.
I just like versatility. Just my thing.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by AirforceBat on Apr 22, 2009 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only thing AirforceBat is...
Would Safety be the best position to pick in the 2nd round. Only if Sean Smith or Louis Delmas are there does considering a safety even make sense. It may be more wise to think WR at this point, since a potential top tier one may fall and be available. Possibly LB too. Personally, I think LB is the way to go if a good one is there.
"Amongst the enemy's Lair, there will always be a DallasPalace!"
by DallasPalace on Apr 22, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well of course.
That goes without saying.
I’m all for the best player available.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by AirforceBat on Apr 22, 2009 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
William Moore
If available will be in the discussion at #51. It’s so hard to guess who will be available. I’m hoping for Pat White.
by birdness on Apr 22, 2009 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
holy crap
what the hell would we do with Pat White?
by DoomsdayD75 on Apr 23, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently we have a tweener
in Scandrick Terry. Tweeners are ok if they fit your defensive system. I like the idea of having a guy that can play either position. We don’t need him to be an outside CB but how nice would it be to have him in the slot or the nickle safety. Interchangeable parts are good because of injuries as well. Sean Smith is valuable because he can play two positions. Delmas is a safety only which is okay but Smith can be an every down player at several positions, whether it be standrad or nickle situations. Versatility=good.
With that said I would take Delmas in a heartbeat if available at 51 but if Smith is too, give me Smith
by cow_fanatic on Apr 23, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey Guys
You’ve both done your homework enough to KNOW that it is likely that neither will be there at 51 . It would be nice, but too many other teams need DBs. So who is next that fits the criteria. McBath, Johnston? I’ve seen your work . You know your stuff. Give us some ideas.
by oldboysfan on Apr 22, 2009 4:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I know as far as coverage goes...
Raf is really high on McBath.
I think he’d be a serious contender in the 3rd round.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by AirforceBat on Apr 22, 2009 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, if we can't get Delmas
I’d take McBath in the 3rd as he’s an excellent cover safety.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 22, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smith, Delmas, Chung or Moore at #51
any other safety prospect would be a reach. If all four are gone then somebody will slip at another position – Eric Wood, Duke Robinson, Phil Loada$$, Jarron Gilbert, Clint Sintim …
by birdness on Apr 22, 2009 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why not a CB that can play FS(star safety) as well ??? we need both, a nickle/dime CB and a dime FS....
Byrd- PR
Harris- PR
Martin
Lewis- KR
Fletcher
Quin- KR
all physical CB’s that can cover WR’s and support the run…….and offer return ability…
by My_2_Cents on Apr 22, 2009 4:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I like Martin
or Byrd. Both could play saftey. So we can wait to see who falls.
by oldboysfan on Apr 22, 2009 4:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
exactly.......I don't mind Delmas...but don't make him out to be the savior of our secondary when plenty of cover corners can play the nickle/dime FS spot...
and offer more to ST’s…
by My_2_Cents on Apr 22, 2009 4:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand
something here. After Moore’s junior year he is rated as the best safety propsect in the country and would have been a top 20 pick if he had come out after his junior season. None of the other safties anyone is talking about has EVER had as productive year as Moore’s junior year. The kid injures his foot twice in 2008 along with separated cartilage and everyone wants to throw him under the bus? If this kid is healthy, he will be the best all around safety in this draft. The kid gets 8 picks as a junior and suddenly he can’t cover? As for Delmas, he may be a fine cover safety but you also have to tackle and I just don’t see him having the bulk to handle Brandon Jacobs for instance. For my money, if Moore’s not there, wait unitl the third round for a safety. We already signed one.
by jevans1729 on Apr 22, 2009 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 jevans..you are right on the money.......I'm begging for SS-Will Moore to be there at #51
if Moore’s not there, wait unitl the third round for a safety. We already signed one.
If we can’t get Moore at #51….
We better hope SS-Chip Vaughn is there at #69,
or SS-Hamlin at #104,
or SS-Otis Wiley late fourth/early 5th…
or CJ Spillman …5th/6th
Thos are my Safeties………
by My_2_Cents on Apr 22, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two hamlin safeties would be interesting
The Hamlin Tendem.
"Aw Shucks" - Wade Phillips
by MrMinority on Apr 22, 2009 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tandem**
ahh wednesday’s
"Aw Shucks" - Wade Phillips
by MrMinority on Apr 22, 2009 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol...yeah...been thinking that for about 6 months now...as Hamlin has always been on my radar....how funny would that be....
Hamlin on the tackle…..Which one ????
by My_2_Cents on Apr 22, 2009 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brandon Jacobs needs to be stopped at the line or he is a problem for anyone.
All I can remember is TEs eatting our lunch. Even Boss picked up key 1st downs and he doesnt scare me at all. I also remember putting Ware in coverage against the Ravens TE because he was eatting our lunch.
We will see Shockey , Gonzales, Gates, Cooley twice. We should see many of those same TEs in the playoffs. We better have someone to match up or we will be home again when the playoffs starts. I dont know about Moore but if he cant man up we dont need him. I know the run needs to be stopped first but Im not as worried about that as TEs schooling us.
The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson
by squidlo97 on Apr 23, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Throw in Kellen Winslow as well.
The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson
by squidlo97 on Apr 23, 2009 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the three players i really want
can anyone give me a rundown on what would have to happen for us to get:
hakeem nicks
darcel mcbath
and jason phillips
by yesAlanTuring on Apr 22, 2009 8:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Cross off Nicks
He’s going in the bottom 1st round, but the other 2 guys Dallas can take with the picks they have now. Although McBath is moving up on some boards into the 2nd round, he’s probably available in the 3rd.
Phillips could go anywhere in the 4th and 5th which is good since Dallas has 5 picks in those rounds and ammo to move around.
April 25-26 -- NFL Draft
by APerfectStar on Apr 22, 2009 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't
reach! That’s all I ask for. If they have Delmas ranked that high on the board then fine, go get him. I would prefer to address the OL (which was the big problem last year) and LB. Ware is great, James is solid but who else would another team fear? Carp looks like a bust, Ellis is never happy and getting old, Spencer (so far) has been a disappointment. We need a ILB & another OLB. You can NEVER have enough LB’s running a 3-4. I wish we could have drafted that S from UCLA that the skins got last year. Damn, a 7th round pick!
by tyler2 on Apr 22, 2009 8:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agree with tyler
I would not mind if the Cowboys go for OL help with their first pick, someone like Max Unger that can play both center and guard position
by DCowboy on Apr 22, 2009 9:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
+1...most likely - SS or OL at #51
The only ILB/OLB’s at 51 might be ILB-Sintim or OLB-Barwin, which I would take over any Safety or O Lineman…although I doubt either will be there, just like I don’t expect FS-Delmas or DB-Smith there either……..
- - OG-Duke Robinson vs SS-Will Moore or Pat Chung = Duke Robinson
by My_2_Cents on Apr 22, 2009 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would take
Robinson too over Moore or Chung. It ssems Moore and Robinson are two players who have had 1st round grades (along with Percy Harvin) that could drop into the 2nd round. Depending on how far Robinson fell, I would consider trading up for him.
by jevans1729 on Apr 22, 2009 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
word is
The Patriots are looking to move pick 34 (obtained fr the Chiefs) for a 2010 1rst rd`er, now since we could win the Super Bowl next yr our pick in 2010 could be 32 overall so we would probably have to throw in a later rd pick as well…156? but would still give us 11 picks. Now the only 2 players that the Cowboys are showing an interest in that would need the 34 pick are Robiskie, Brian (WR), Ohio State or Delmas, Louis (FS), Western Michigan sooooooo…. the draft could very well start out like this…
pick 34 Robiskie, Brian (WR), Ohio State
pick 51 best safety available from a group Delmas, Louis (FS), Western Michigan / Smith, *Sean (CB), Utah / Chung, Patrick (SS), Oregon / Moore, William (SS), Missouri / Johnson, Rashad (FS), Alabama / Martin, Sherrod (CB), Troy
or pick 32 Delmas, Louis (FS), Western Michigan
pick 51 best wr from a group Robiskie, Brian (WR), Ohio State / Massaquoi, Mohamed (WR), Georgia / Williams, Derrick (WR), Penn State / Iglesias, Juaquin (WR), Oklahoma
by ziggy19 on Apr 23, 2009 10:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Pats aren't getting a 1st rounder for the 34th pick
no GM is that stupid
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 23, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Colts took Ugoh
with the 49ers 2nd rd pick and gave back a 1rst rder the following yr to San Fran and keep in mind our 1rst rd pick hopefully would be 32nd overall.
by ziggy19 on Apr 23, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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