The continued Safety discussion

by Chandus on Apr 23, 2009 10:59 AM CDT

"To be or not to be, that's the Cowboys dilemma".

There's a big group of people that claims that our team hole is at SS and a SS prospect is what our team needs, because the guy should be used as a regular SS and you need a big guy for all the tackling involved.

And there's another group that isn't looking at king sized Safeties, but at Safeties or tweeners that are known for being much better in coverage than how they're seen as tacklers.

I'm in the 2nd group and I've a reasoning, so I'll explain my point of view:

- The star DB in the Nickel and Dime.

Last season Wade played with this idea, having Henry playing a position in which he looked like a LB/CB/S and teams would have no idea of what he was going to do, he could pick a WR in the slot, a TE, would drop back to form a 2 deep zone or maybe he would blitz. Now, the Cowboys shipped Henry to Detroit and they don't have a guy capable of playing the position, is the experiment dead? I thought that it was a good idea, so I don't like it if it's over. I didn't liked it when the experiment had to be finished in the regular season due to health and the rookies inexperience.

I can't see a king sized SS playing the position, having Chung try to cover a Santana Moss or a Steve Smith would be a recipe for disaster, he would wave them goodbye. And I think that they would do the same with some of the athletic TEs in the League.

So, a tweener or a good coverage S would be a better idea for this position, a position that might be used always that a Nickel or Dime package hits the field and we're talking about a bit more than 50% of the total defensive snaps.

- Wade Phillips likes the smaller Ss that are efficient in coverage.

I'll only look at his previous stop, San Diego, because that's when he had a similar team in scheme and talent.

His Safeties were: Terrence Kiel, Marlon McCree, Bhawoh Jue and Clinton Hart. These guys average 6'0 and 202 pounds of weight.

You might make the case that they're all not any good, and you would be right, they're all really bad or average. But an interesting thing is that the Chargers haven't backed out of this kind of small Safety, Hart's still a starter and after Wade was signed by Dallas they drafted Eric Weddle (he of the 5'11 and 200 pound size). They kept the same mold.

And all these has a reason, in his regular 3-4 scheme he liked to use his Safeties in deep coverage, rolling the dices that his front 7 would be able to control the run.

Having a king sized SS playing this position wouldn't be smart, because they're all seen as better players against the run than in coverage. And again, a tweener or a good coverage Safety would be a smarter choice.

And Wade already made 2 moves in this direction by signing Sensabaugh (6'0, 204) when there were bigger Safeties available and by signing Ken Hamlin (6'2, 208) last year.

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I really don't have an idea of what they'll do on Draft day, but after Draft day I will understand what they did and why. Wade will continue his experiments and will follow his previous experience or he's going to write something new with a big Safety.

My money is on the tweeners and coverage Safeties, yours?

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Comments

A star type player

that we could get at 51 is Jarius Byrd a different Duck from Oregon. He played corner and some scouts think highly of him and some others feel he doesn’t have the speed to be an everyday corner so move him to safety. Everything I have read on the guy makes me believe he has the skills to be a safety in run support and he has had 17 career INTs so he does have a nose for the ball as well. He is a young version of A. Henry in the sense that he could become the ballhawking safety we all want but he isn’t an Ed Reed type being that he will gladly stick his nose in run support.

by nicholas.rodriguez on Apr 23, 2009 11:56 AM CDT reply actions

I really like Byrd

the only thing that bothers me a little is his 4.67 in the forty. However, I think that he could probably run somewhat faster than that, he had just recovered from injury. I mean, how slow is too slow for a safety. If he had run a 4.55 then no problems, even a 4.6 maybe, but a 4.67 seems just a tad slow and hence why I have him pegged to go to the Colts in the second or third round (or another team that runs cover 2), but I trust Ciskowski, so if we draft him I’m sure we think he’s fast enough.

by The Triplets on Apr 23, 2009 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions

Crappy draft for Safeties

Taking one at #51 is a reach that harkens back to drafts of the Larry Lacewell/Jerry Jones era.

As evidence, I submit the following, which comes from the last time we had no 1st round pick and needed a DB in a bad way…

2 Dwayne Goodrich – Tennessee
4 Kareem Larrimore – West Texas A&M
5 Michael Wiley Ohio – State
6 Mario Edwards – Florida State
7 Orantes Grant – Georgia

I pray the new brain trust in Dallas (aka Cisky and Stephen Jones) is aware of its history and doesn’t repeat their mistakes.

"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Apr 23, 2009 12:17 PM CDT reply actions

No, I don't think so

It’s a poor safety for top talent, but Gosselin already gave the position a really solid grade of 8. You may call Gosselin reporting anything but his inside information on the draft is legit and he bases his mocks and grades on this info.

There’s indeed starting caliber talent in this Draft.

Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Apr 23, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions

not true 5Blings

Delmas, Moore and Chung would all be solid second round talent in any draft.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Apr 23, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions

-1

If Taylor Mays, Eric Berry, Reshad Jones and Earl Thomas are in the same draft, all three of the safeties you mentioned would be 3rd rounders.

"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Apr 23, 2009 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions

I disagree except for maybe Chung

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Apr 24, 2009 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions

Please remember Jerry.

It looked decent on draft day. How can you through so many picks at one area and come up empty? It was so sad.

by oldboysfan on Apr 23, 2009 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions

I agree but...

“in his regular 3-4 scheme he liked to use his Safeties in deep coverage, rolling the dices that his front 7 would be able to control the run”

I agreee but there is a key element missing that I’ve been questioning about since the conversion to the 3-4 alignment. The huge Jamal Williams NT that controls the run! Our starting NT is smaller than our DEs (reminders of Baltimore and other situations come to mind). I think there is a large lose of grasp on the concepts of the front 3 needing to be space eating mountains with this organization. Bill had a wide body in Ferguson and we have… who Siavii who hasn’t played in 3 straight seasons who they like??? Behind him is Tim Anderson (according to yahoo) who is only large enough for a 3-4 DE. I’m not saying Ratliff definately needs to move to DE but I think we need a huge wide body NT like Brace who is revered for his ability to play the run and to me seems he’d be that Grit/No Glory NT that we need to hold up the middle of our defense. Let Demarcus Ware and Company gain the sacks and team gain the glory… Just my thoughts! (Jay Ratliff is listed at 298 lbs/ Jamal Williams- 348 lbs, lol)

God 1st, Family Always & Dallas Cowboys 4 Life!!!!!

by CodeNamedG on Apr 23, 2009 1:03 PM CDT reply actions

The Cowboys problem hasn't been Ratliff

But a combination of factors, like:

- Irregular level of play from the DEs, in one play they can look dominating, in the other they will get push 5 yards back.
- Poor reactions from the LBs.
- Bad tackling angles.
- Bad hand technique for the LBs in getting out of 1-on-1 blocks.
- And a defense getting outcoached.

After last season, I wouldn’t take one NT in the League over Ratliff. Not one. That’s the level in which Ratliff played last season. Does it seems that he needs a breather every now and then? Yes, he needs a backup.

Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Apr 24, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions

True...

There were other problems on the defense but those problems are always going to happen. Having a huge NT would minimize the damage from such faults IMO. Ratliff has been phenominal I agree. I like him but I like him in a 4-3 DT capacity. It is said that all his sacks have come from the nickel formation (a 4-3 lineup sorta). I think he’d still have his motor and success if not more moving over to DE here and there with a Huge attention demanding NT like Brace. Ratliff and Olshansky will be silver spooned while Demarcus Ware would be in a heaven of sacks, lol (been drinking, lol). I understand that Wade fits the defense to the team but in my opinion he’d have a much easier job if we had a stout NT to fit it around…

God 1st, Family Always & Dallas Cowboys 4 Life!!!!!

by CodeNamedG on Apr 25, 2009 4:12 AM CDT up reply actions

well i think the middle ground between these two is Sean Smith

We have to take him if he is there. check out his twitter page. http://twitter.com/seansmith4

by Becho on Apr 24, 2009 1:14 AM CDT reply actions

"having Chung try to cover a Santana Moss or a Steve Smith would be a recipe for disaster"

This is just silly, there’s not a single Safety in the league that could cover those guys one-on-one and that’s why in fact they’re never asked to cover them one-on-one and why those guys play Safety and not Cornerback. If their was a Safety who could shut down Santana Moss or Steve Smith in man coverage they’d be moved to CB or they’d go top 10 overall. No other Safety in the league would be asked to do that and yet you criticize Chung because you don’t think he could cover two of the fastest and most explosive WR’s in the league? News flash; Delmas, Smith, Moore etc could not cover them either that’s why they’re all 2nd plus Rounders.

by Luke. on Apr 25, 2009 2:03 AM CDT reply actions

Good Point

I dont think we need a SS i think we need a Saftey who can cover and support the run when asked to. If hes 6’4 215 or 6’ 200 thats fine but we need him to do what hes asked to. i really hope Sean Smith is there because he could be a good coverage man so could delmas but i think theres more value to be had with our 2nd round pick. I think the 2nd tier group of Vaugn, Martin, McBath, and Johnson arent that much of a drop of Delmas, Chung, and Moore.They need to stick to there board and i hope for the best.

I thank God everyday i wasnt born a Eagles fan!!!!!!

by regaberto on Apr 25, 2009 2:18 AM CDT up reply actions

Did I say that they would be one-on-one with them?

No, what I’m saying is that you need someone that can stay with them, because that’s were the team is headed, they’re looking at guys that have wheels and known coverage hability way as the 1st 2 aspects, then they’re looking at tackling hability.

That’s how the team ended up with Sensabaugh instead of other bigger Safeties.

Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Apr 25, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions

I made a last mock

I’m predicting that Delmas, Sean Smith, Robiskie and most of the other 2nd Round graded players at positions of need won’t be there at 51, so I started looking for trade down partners and I found the Chargers, those guys have a big need for a 3-4 DE and I think that Jarron Gilbert is going to be there. That trade works for Dallas (they get a 3rd and 4th this year and a 3rd next year) and works for San Diego.

And the mock goes like this:

3 (69) – CB/FS/StarDB Sherrod Martin
3 (78) – ILB Jason Williams
4 (101) – T Robert Brewster
4 (113) – G/C T.J. Lang
4 (117) – NT Chris Baker
5 (156) – WR Brooks Foster
5 (166) – CB/FS Don Carey
5 (172) – CB Brice McCain
6 (197) – G Roger Allen
6 (208) – FB Brannan Southerland
7 (210) – TE Davon Drew
7 (227) – ILB Joshua Mauga

Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Apr 25, 2009 9:37 AM CDT reply actions