Cowboys Draft '09: Linebackers, Special Teams Get an Overhaul
The Cowboys have taken a carpet-bombing approach to certain positions in recent drafts. In '07, Dallas targeted offensive line, picking James Marten in the 3rd and Doug Free in the 4th.
Last year, the team went after cornerbacks and running backs, taking Mike Jenkins and Orlando Scandrick for the secondary and Felix Jones and Tashard Choice for the backfield.
This year, Dallas lived up to Jerry Jones' pre-draft predictions and spend multiple picks to rebuild the linebacking corps. It then spent heavily in the later rounds to give new special teams coach Joe DeCamillis a complete overhaul of special teams coverage units which have underachieved for the last several years, for Bruce DeHaven and Bruce Read.
Building Up the 'Backers
The Cowboys entered the '09 season with a thin linebacking corps. Three of last year's starters returned, in Demarcus Ware, Bradie James and Anthony Spencer. Aging vet Keith Brooking was signed to replace departing vet Zach Thomas at WILB.
Beyond that, the team had little depth. Greg Ellis declined badly on run downs last year and was replaced by the much stouter Spencer after the Giants loss. He's still an effective situational rusher, but his health is a constant question at this point in his career.
Dallas had no young rushers to replace Ellis and to challenge Spencer, who had a stellar rushing game in that Giants loss, but did little else the rest of the year.
Inside, the lack of depth was even more acute. Kevin Burnett, a key nickel linebacker, joined the Chargers. Bobby Carpenter has yet to ignite and may never do so. Justin Rogers offered solid special teams play but showed no rush skills and looked confused when the team tried moving him inside during training camp.
Dallas needed at least two young linebackers, one inside and one outside, to bolster the squad.
The team hopes it got Burnett's replacement, and Brookings' heir, with 3rd round pick Jason Williams. The 6'1", 241 lb. Western Illinois product has excellent coverage skills and outstanding speed. He ran a 4.49 40 at his pro day. He's got the bulk the 228 lb. Burnett lacked, so the team is hopeful that he can become a three down linebacker down the line. This year, he'll be groomed to play in the nickel.
In the 4th, Dallas took two pass rushers back-to-back, nabbing Oregon State's Victor Butler and Texas Tech's Brandon Williams. Both were productive 4-3 DEs who fit the "tweener" profile and are projected as 3-4 OLBs. Projecting this change is hard, but the team hopes for one hit, to keep the sacks coming once Ellis moves on.
Rip It Up and Start Over
Looking for a consistent thread to the three 9-7s in '05, '06 and '08, consider the special teams meltdowns. The bungled field goal at the end of the Redskins' away game in '06; the two special team's scores allowed against Arizona last year; the botched punts in Pittsburgh that jump started the Steelers' comeback. The list is long and painful.
New special teams coach Joe DeCamillis may have urged a scorched-earth approach to rebuilding these units. Consider the core of Dallas special teams two years ago. Here are the players who participated in all the team's packages:
- Keith Davis
- Bobby Carpenter
- Justin Rogers
- Pat Watkins
- Kevin Burnett
How many can count on being on Dallas' opening day roster in Tampa Bay? Davis and Burnett are gone. Rogers and Carpenter just saw three linebackers drafted today and 6th round pick Stephen Hodge looks like a Davis clone. He's a hard-hitting college strong safety who may lack the coverage skills to crack that starting lineup. He does have the makeup to be a punt and kickoff coverage demon, as this writeup suggests.
Dallas also drafted a blocking tight end in VIrginia's John Phillips who looks like an upgrade over Tony Curtis. 5th round SS prospect Michael Hamlin should also see extensive time on coverage units, while making a run at the starting strong safety role.
The team's selection of USC kicker David Buehler shows that no special teams player is safe, even a standout like K Nick Folk. Folk has been a clutch field goal kicker, but has been dreadfully short on kickoffs. Dallas was the only team in the NFL last year which didn't have a touchback. Every other team had at least four.
Folk also had the second worst kickoff average -- opponents caught the ball on their eight yard line, and while the kickoff unit's coverage average was solid, opponents on average started their drives just beyond their 29, the fifth-best field position in the league. Folk also developed an annoying late-season habit of knocking kickoffs out of bounds.
Buehler is the top-rated kicker this year, in part because of his long kickoff leg. 55% of his kickoffs last year went for touchbacks.
The special teams lost the Cardinals game last year and had a hand in a few other losses. The kickoff and punt coverage units have been dreadful under the last two unit coaches. Don't assume that any of the guys taken late on Sunday are camp fodder. Every one of them may displace the special teams guys we've seen the past four years. Given the results, I can't complain. One more win would have put Dallas in the playoffs last year.
Other Names of Interest
Quite a few people on site said, "huh" when Dallas took Ball State G Robert Brewster. He was one of the quieter top tier players, as guard isn't a sexy spot, but he had a solid spot in the one ranking that incorporates NFL draft data.
The intriguing futures pick, by far, is Texas A&M quarterback Stephen McGee. He bounced around in an Aggies program that hit some potholes in recent years, but gets high marks for his toughness and athleticism. I heard weeks ago the Cowboys loved the guy and it wasn't smoke. I heard in the last two weeks that McGee was battling Pat White for the 4th spot on many NFL boards, behind the 1st round trio of Stafford, Sanchez and Freeman.
Why the fuss over a guy who ran a lot of option? Let's go back to Martellus Bennett's draft a year ago. I heard after the team's initial minicamp that Bennett had to overcome a lot of bad habits acquired in a program which recruited great athletes but which had not recently developed them.
McGee falls in that category. He was recruited as a passer and then spent time in shifting schemes. This writeup makes a case among McGee's advocates. If the forecast is right, Dallas will have somebody to watch in 2011. In the meantime, McGee will pull a Tony Romo, and begin his old school NFL apprenticeship.
The Anatomy of a Disappointment: Seattle Scuttles the Surprise Scenario
I'm disappointed by the team's failure to attempt a trade up once Oregon center Max Unger fell through the 2nd round.
48 picks into the draft, it appeared the Cowboys were on the verge of completing the first leg of the "Surprise Option" mock draft I proposed earlier this week. A source had told me earlier that Dallas liked the trio of top-tier centers and would not hesitate if one of them, Unger in particular, dropped to 51.
As Jerry Jones explained this evening, the team saw Unger as an immediate challenger for a starting role, and that he was the last player in that round who the team forecast as a possible rookie starter. Unger played center and tackle for the Ducks and was capable of playing all five line positions. You could imagine the 6'5", 309 lb. Unger supplanting Cory Proctor as the backup center/guard and challenging Kyle Kosier for the left guard spot.
But a series of coincidences, all put in motion by Denver's series of draft trades, beginning with the Jay Cutler-to-Chicago deal, worked to scuttle Dallas' plans.
First, understand the Denver's machinations made Unger's drop possible in the first place. Seattle, which originally picked 37th, seriously considered taking Unger there, especially after Alex Mack and Eric Wood were taken late in the first round.
Seattle passed when Denver offered them next year's 1st rounder for this year's 2nd. Denver had already selected Knowshon Moreno and Robert Ayers in the first and had a 2nd round pick at 48, which they used to take Dallas FS target Darcel McBath. The Broncos swung a deal to add CB Alphonso Smith, adding talent to their ailing defense.
The Seahawks moved back into the 2nd by giving the Bears a nearly identical package to the one Buffalo gave Dallas for the 51st -- they gave their 3rd (the 68th) and their 4th (the 105th) to move up to the 49th spot. (Buffalo gave Dallas the 75th and 110th picks to move up to the 51st slot.)
In another parallel, Cutler's acquistion left Chicago, like the Cowboys, with only a 2nd round pick. They, like the Cowboys, targeted Ohio State wideout Brian Robiske and decided to bail when he was picked by Cleveland early in the 2nd.
Thus ended a bizarre series of parallel moves that saw the Cowboys and the Bears leave day one without making a pick. If there's one move I wish the team could re-play, this is it.
Overall: I'm looking for four keepers. I see the Williams boys, Brewster and McGee as the strongest bets. Anybody else who can upgrade the woeful special teams, and start doing so this year, will be welcome.
The lack of top free safety is another disappointment, but I cautioned that some positions would go unfilled. For a position considered thin, the top safeties flew off the board earlier than expected. Dallas never came close to Louis Delmas and Darcel McBath, a guy they hoped would be on the board at 69, was gone before 51. The Cowboys didn't force the picks and went where they saw value.
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347 comments
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Comments
$10!
Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.
by OskieOskie on Apr 26, 2009 8:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
thought kickoffs had to go 10 yds
Folk also had the second worst kickoff average — opponents caught the ball on the Dallas eight, and while the kickoff units coverage average was solid, opponents on average started their drives just beyond the Dallas 29,
on the plus side once they caught the ball our special teams caused them to lose ground.
by ziggy19 on Apr 26, 2009 8:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
thanks for catching the typo
will get it fixed asap.
by Rafael Vela on Apr 26, 2009 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Glum...
Not much more to say than that.
by Boundforbeach on Apr 26, 2009 8:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
very good analysis Raf
Sometimes the draft doesn’t fall in your favor and you get unlucky, when that happens you have to scramble and just get value and thats what the Cowboys did. I think they upgraded the depth on the team tremendously.
The average fan might hate this draft but we know better.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 26, 2009 8:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Is that a suggestion that any fan who dislikes this draft can't be an "above average" fan?
by BishopWest on Apr 26, 2009 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, just that astute fans aren't highly critical of it
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 26, 2009 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's pretty silly.
There’s no factual basis for any of this. It’s opinion and projection at this point.
by brettgardner on Apr 27, 2009 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's pretty weak
people are pissed because we skipped over a bunch of talented kids. There were good players on the board while we were taking these guys.
by DoomsdayD75 on Apr 26, 2009 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
according to who? obviously Ciskoski felt otherwise
and I’ll trust his opinion over yours or anyone else’s.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 26, 2009 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet you did the same during Lacewell's tenure
Let the sheep be led…
"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
by 5Blings on Apr 26, 2009 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Front Office right now deserves the benefit of the doubt
Last 6 years, the team has a draft success rate that stands above 50% (Look around, the most respected draft franchises have similar success rates). And 2008 and 2005 will be remembered as 2 of the best drafts in our team history.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
by Chandus on Apr 26, 2009 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and still no playoff victories, the true measure of a respected franchise
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
by Seanrude on Apr 27, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually I didn't, didn't like lacewell at all
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 27, 2009 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
just because
I’m a Cowboys fan doesn’t mean I have to agree with every move the team makes. Frankly if you did agree with most of the moves the Cowboys have made over the last decade, you would be wrong, because we haven’t won anything.
by DoomsdayD75 on Apr 27, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I told you I wasn't a Lacewell fan
that should tell you something
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 28, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree.
In fact, I would say that any above average fan would superior knowledge of football did not like this draft, although some average fans may have felt that the teams depth was upgraded tremendously. Since I am a genius, and I did not like this draft, this must obviously be the case.
Odd how many of the same people that have inaccurately predicted where the Cowboys would finish the past 2 years seemed to like this draft. Perhaps those fans aren’t as football savvy as they believe they are.
by Baked Potato Soup on Apr 26, 2009 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Surely the genius comment...
was sarcastic?
Si?
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by AirforceBat on Apr 26, 2009 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course.
I was mocking those posters whose best argument is usually, well, if you were as knowledgeable as me…, or anyone who has better than average football intelligence can plainly see…, etc.
by Baked Potato Soup on Apr 26, 2009 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
I don’t think most people are happy with this draft. I somewhat understand the thinking, but I thought that there would be one guy that you could walk away and say BOOM really good player.
I like Williams, but I thought that might have been a reach there.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by AirforceBat on Apr 27, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great point
There wasn’t one player that we picked that I could hang my hat on and say that guy’s going to be a starter some day. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if none of these guys were any good although the law of averages says that at least one should be good
There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.
by kameleon_o on Apr 28, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Define a draft that would have pleased you
Trading up for Unger?
Not “reaching” for Jason Williams and Robert Brewster?
What’s with all those DE-OLB tweeners?
A godam kicker?
Help at DB should have come earlier?
No massive NT?
Am I right?
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
by Chandus on Apr 26, 2009 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunatly...
I think there just wasn’t enough options as far as the NT’s were concerned.
I thought Brace went pretty early, and all he does is eat space.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by AirforceBat on Apr 26, 2009 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm thrilled that we addressed our depth at kicker.
How about not looking like we were 2 steps behind at every single pick?
by Baked Potato Soup on Apr 26, 2009 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As in?
Unger?
I liked the guy, but I also like Brewster. So, that to me eliminates the need for Unger.
And who else?
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
by Chandus on Apr 27, 2009 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who else, what?
I wanted to see them draft for potential contributors, not guys to challenge the practice squad.
by Baked Potato Soup on Apr 27, 2009 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
in the presser
jj said any guy drafted in round 3 or above is expected to be an eventual starter
4 thru 7 are back ups and special teams guys, unless you get lucky and find a diamond in the rough
by BishopWest on Apr 27, 2009 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about
Jason Williams? As a prospect makes me think a bigger, and healthier, Burnett. Has a true chance to become a full time starter.
Brewster? He’s a legit OT/OG prospect. And he actually has the feet to play LT. He just lacked height and technique that would have made him be drafted higher. But that has a lot to do with Ball States’ open offense.
McGee? He’s going to make the team and he’s going to be the inactive QB. Nothing wrong with that. People wanted our team to keep the backup QB in Carolina and McGee has much more potential.
The DE/OLB tweeners? If Ellis gets his walking papers you need 2 backups for Ware and Spencer. If you want the team to keep using the extra rusher packages (the 3-3 and 2-4 Cowboy packages) one of them is going to play and probably a lot.
Smith? That’s our team Star DB project. If he makes it, he’s going to play in a lot of dime and nickel packages.
Hamlin? Competition for Sensabaugh and Watkins.
Buehler? Carrying a specialty ST player isn’t something new…. Last year Polk, Carpenter and Davis (Davis’ role expanded due to bad luck, the plan was to have him as a special teamer) roles were to be special teamers. Buehler can play coverage and can Kick Off. He’s actually more valuable.
Hodge? Special teamer.
Phillips? 1 FB and 3 TEs. That’s what the team likes to carry. He has a good shot of becoming a contributor.
Mickens? He might become a steal.
Johnson? This guy indeed sounds like practice scout material.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
by Chandus on Apr 27, 2009 1:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you serious Brewster over Unger..LMAO!!!!
by Boyzfan94 on Apr 27, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brewster is capable of playing LT
Unger isn’t.
Unger is capable of being a great C. Brewster isn’t
Brewster is a project. Unger is more NFL ready.
Unger was a 2nd Round pick and he’s expected to be an inmediate starter. Brewster isn’t. And Unger wouldn’t start in Dallas, especially when his best suited position is manned by Gurode, a Pro Bowl Center.
Brewster, IMHO, is more valuable for our team in the 3rd than what Unger would have been in the 2nd.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
by Chandus on Apr 27, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One of the reasons Unger was such a target for many teams because of his versatility.
He played mostly C in Oregon, but also spent time at the LT and G positions. This would allow a pro team to only have to dress 7 Olineman for a game, giving them an extra roster spot for say…a kickoff specialist..he, he.
Trust them...they know what they're doing.
by Aaron Novinger on Apr 27, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But I've read that he isn't that light on his feet
And isn’t strong enough to play LT. That’s why he’s being looked as basically an interior lineman that fits the best at Center.
Brewster has more potential as an OT or OG, but he’s a project, that’s why he wasn’t drafted higher.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
by Chandus on Apr 27, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he wasn't being touted as a pro LT--mostly inside and maybe RT.
Trust them...they know what they're doing.
by Aaron Novinger on Apr 27, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brewster at LT? NOT!
read this review
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/556758
Despite good timed speed, he is too bow-legged to generate a good burst running long distances or change direction to handle edge rushers in isolated situations. He has decent knee bend and balance to chip on a defensive end and climb the wall to the next level, making him a better fit for offensive guard. He has some tightness in his lower body and will widen in his stance when taking on the speedy blitzers around the corner.
Lateral Movement: He’s bow legged, preventing him from generating an explosive first step. Will look lethargic when he has to suddenly turn and run with the play and is better off at an interior line position, where his obvious lack of explosion can be covered up.
When he is isolated on the edge, his bow legs and poor hip snap are evident in his inability to mirror the quicker pass rushers. When his feet stop or he gets too top-heavy, it opens the backdoor and leaves his quarterback exposed. He can kick and slide, but is better pass protecting inside, where his lack of explosion can be covered up.
He is a Guard
by BishopWest on Apr 27, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His Offense in Ball State played the spread, that's why he's a project
Look at his important measurables, 3 cone drill (7.68) and 20 yard shuttle (4.75), look at those numbers for the franchise LTs drafted in the 1st Round, very similar numbers. And now look at Brewster’s weight, close to 20 pounds heavier than most of the 1st Round prospects.
The 3 cone drill and 20 yard shuttle are the 2 most important measurables for OTs because those can tell you if a prospect has athletic hability that can be translated to the NFL. Change of direction, explosive first step, suddeness.
He’s a project that has enough athletic hability to be a LT prospect. And at the very least he’s going to be a mean and mobile G prospect.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
by Chandus on Apr 27, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
depth at kicker
what the hell? That’s one of the funniest things i’ve ever heard. Sadly it’s one of the only picks we made that I can somewhat understand.
by DoomsdayD75 on Apr 27, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If 4 make the team and contribute sometime soon, it's an OK draft with me
by StillHateTheGiants on Apr 26, 2009 8:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
well, TE Curtis played over 200 plays last year
if the newly drafted TE takes Curtis’ place on the roster and plays those same 200 plays – that’s contribution
I’d guess that the least contribution would come from QB McGee (sitting on the practise squad?)
Any of those other guys that make the team should play quite a bit on special teams
Some nickle and dime db
Williams should play MLB in the 46 defense
by BishopWest on Apr 27, 2009 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you'll be happy with 4 special teamers?
I’m not trying to trick you or criticize you. I’m just curious about what most people feel is a successful draft. I want to see 4 guys that are significant contributors, ala Felix Jones and Martellus Bennett, or legitimate potential future starters. I don’t think that TE will make the team, as Hannah likely moves into Curtis’ spot.
by Baked Potato Soup on Apr 27, 2009 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
for 4 guys to be significantly contributing
would fill every major hole we have left on the roster and thats unrealistic.
by foyesboys on Apr 27, 2009 1:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are only 4 holes on this roster?
I also noted legitimate potential future starters. Is 4 a lot to ask out of 8 picks? Maybe. But I don’t think that’s a lot out of 11 or however many they ended up with. If the kicker replaces Folk, that’s 1. If Williams is a legit replacement for Burnett, that’s 2. If the guard is a real future starter and not just another backup that they hope never takes the field, that’s 3. Mickens is supposed to be the big steal, so that can be 4. Or one of the other guys. I just mean 4 guys that get on the field for something besides special teams.
by Baked Potato Soup on Apr 27, 2009 2:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no one is REPLACING Folk
they want to take 2 kickers this year; 1 for FGs and 1 for Kickoffs
by BishopWest on Apr 27, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
4 guys WILL contribute this year, I think
Maybe not as much as last year, but what do you expect? Last year we had two 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder, all of whom contributed. This year our highest pick was in the 3rd. If 2 guys contribute from the later rounds, its the same amount of contribution as the late rounds last year.
That being said, I think Williams contributes as a nickle backer, Buehler becomes at least a KO specialist, Mickens replaces Ball, and Hamlin sees real playing time on passing downs. That doesn’t seem too far-fetched, and it would mean we had more late round value this year.
"When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time." -Max McGee
by BigDinSC on Apr 27, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no there are more minor roles
which is special teams
but for 4 significant contributors thats probably:
1 safety (considering noone is gonna beat out our cbs for the top 3 spots)
1 linebacker
1nose tackle
1 lineman (considering our starting lineup ispretty set)
by foyesboys on Apr 27, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you threw me off by saying felix and bennet
I thought you were going for four nearly immediate bigtime contributors, and there are ol 4 positions which i listed above where i thought thats possible.
i think there are up to 7 guys who can significantly contribute.
If a kickoff specialist does his job and can actually tackle, allowing us to go 11 on 10, you’re looking at 3-4 yards average better starting position i think. If the plan actually works out, this is a TON of value.
Hamlin could make an impact on the seconday
Williams will come in burnett’s role
one of the olbs sil make the roster at least and get some playing time there i think.
Mickens sounds like a steal
Smith could make a difference as a return man
and the olineman.
by foyesboys on Apr 27, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't forget Tahard Choice
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
by Seanrude on Apr 27, 2009 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
gotta admit
I’m a little surprised by jerry’s lack of agressiveness in going after unger. it wouldn’t have taken much to make sure we got him,and we decided not to make the move? or maybe other teams didn’t trade down with us in the worry that they’d get stuck in the position we found ourselves in?
by foyesboys on Apr 26, 2009 8:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Unger would have made a huge impact
to the team. He was as close to a sure thing for the O.L. as any player in range. To get so close to getting him and not jumping up to get him killed the chance of having a great draft. I expected Jerry to move up and grab him once he started to fall.
I like churning the rooster.s
by cowboy1966 on Apr 26, 2009 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unger
would have been incredible. Especially compared to what we ended up with.
by DoomsdayD75 on Apr 26, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't realize he was there
I thought he would go after Mack and Wood might slide within range. Three years from now, I suspect Jerry will be sorry about not moving up for Unger. Then again maybe one of the LBs becomes a star
by birdness on Apr 26, 2009 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
I’m ok with the draft, but I thought we needed to improve the oline, and Unger would’ve been a great guy to do it. I think hes the one guy that we could’ve made a move for that could really have made an immediate difference. It would be really nice to add a young good OL to this group. o well.
I’m happy with the secondary and linebacker picks. Little confused by kicker, but i see the logic. Like the McGee pick too.
by foyesboys on Apr 26, 2009 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand the McGee pick
you have Romo and Kitna locked up long term.
Both are good QB’s.
You know that Brandstater, Reilly, Daniel’s, Harell and several other good prospects will be available late or as UFA’s. Why take him….especially as a 4th rounder?
…and why now have Harell come in as a UFA?
by Gmunny on Apr 27, 2009 1:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the adage is
don’t wait until you need a QB before you draft one
Look how GB had Farve and drafted Rodgers.
Plus with 12 picks – we had the extra pick to do it
by BishopWest on Apr 27, 2009 1:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because they feel McGee can be an every down QB
because Kitna is old.
Because the time to draft a QB is when you don’t need one. Cause you never know when you will need one. Romo could injure an elbow, blow out a knee or not progress.
It’s a hell of an investment. Look at Matt Cassell. What did New England spend to get him? He was a 7th rounder. He looked good this year and they flipped him for the top pick in the 2nd
and could have gotten a 1st for him if they wanted to.
QBs are always scarce. If McGee pans out, he’s like a penny stock that goes through the roof.
Green Bay used to do this every year when Ron Wolf ran them. They took a QB in the 5th or 6th round, even though they had Favre. They developed Mark Brunell, Aaron Brooks and Matt Hasselbeck this way and flipped them all for high picks when they developed.
I’d like to see Dallas start this.
by Rafael Vela on Apr 27, 2009 1:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Dallas needs to never, ever, ever go through a QB dry spell as they have in the time between Aikman and Romo.
There should always be someone back there learning.
Trust them...they know what they're doing.
by Aaron Novinger on Apr 27, 2009 2:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is what I am most upset about.
If Unger was the last perceived 2nd round grade for the Boys, why not trade up once he became the last guy you thought could help you out. 5-6 spots maybe. We had plenty of picks to do it.
The shotgun approach just doesn’t seem like it will work for a head coach who is deathly afraid of starting “unproven” players and loves the status quo. For example, not playing Choice significantly until he was forced.
by DCProf on Apr 26, 2009 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
its possible
but i find it doubtful that within those 5 picks, we couldn’t move down. We probably should’ve been able to beat out seattle’s deal to chicago.
by foyesboys on Apr 26, 2009 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
But I’m glad they got some linebacker depth and possibly a starter or two with the number of picks they did take. Everyone said this draft was poor quality, so they decided to try to grab a bunch of guys and see who sticks.
Also they got someone from Oregon State. So the draft gets at least a C+ for me. A B- if he makes the team.
by DCProf on Apr 26, 2009 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
regardless of everything
If Roy becomes the #1 receiver we hope he will be, this draft was at absolute worst a C. Given how difficult it is to find a wr in the draft, a 1 and 3 for roy (if he plays up to where we think he can) would be a steal.
by foyesboys on Apr 26, 2009 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...mostly.
That is the key. But we do need like at least 3 guys and hopefully 4 or 5 that hit each year in the draft to continue to field a competitive team and hopefully a championship team someday.
by DCProf on Apr 26, 2009 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is crap
So if the WR becomes a true #1, then all other stupid moves with the 11 picks they had in the draft don’t matter?
It’s that kind of thinking that leaves a team mired in mediocrity.
Fans of this franchise have to hold their team’s front office people to a much higher standard. We’re not Cincy or Detroit, where a Mike Brown or Matt Millen can continue to fail without repercussions.
"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
by 5Blings on Apr 26, 2009 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually we are. See 1998 - present.
"When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time." -Max McGee
by BigDinSC on Apr 26, 2009 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jerry the Owner wil never fire Jerry the GM
If the GM was someone other than the owner, he would have been gone long ago
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
by Seanrude on Apr 27, 2009 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what "repercussions" do you recommend?
Jerry’s opening a billion dollar stadium in a few months.
Don’t see any evidence that he’s feeling any pain.
by Rafael Vela on Apr 27, 2009 12:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I said at worst a C
Likewise, if teh giants hit on one of their first and 3rd round wrs, their worst grade will be a C. there isn’t anythign crazy about this.
Not saying I don’t want us to do better.
by foyesboys on Apr 27, 2009 1:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the 2nd round really irks me
they had a list of 2nd round players they felt could contribute immediately. when that list quickly dwindles down to 1 or 2 players and you have multiple picks in each subsequent round, you make a trade up and get that impact player. in this case max unger. they desperately need depth on the line and he would have been a high probability addition there. what would it have taken to make a trade up? i don’t even know. a 4th rounder? so they got two OLB’s in the 4th round. one year from now are they both still on the team?
by Barbie Carpenter on Apr 26, 2009 8:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
They should have moved up 5 spots or whatever to take their last potential starter.
by Ridgelake on Apr 26, 2009 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I turned off the TV and just walked away
I loved the trade down to get a 3rd and 4th, but where was the move back up to the late 50’s snag one the guys I thought were can’t miss at 51. Burn 69 and a 6th to get a future starter.
by birdness on Apr 26, 2009 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
at the end of the day, while i like the additions to special teams
this team, again, failed to address the weakest link in our defense for the past several seasons.
Safety play needed help, some way, some how.
'he nails an open three from the corner....just like you and me, this one was made by penetration' - Truthaboutit - Round 1 Game 5 Recap
by KDP on Apr 26, 2009 8:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
William Moore was just sitting there
by birdness on Apr 26, 2009 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not much difference between Moore and Hamlin
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 26, 2009 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think one of the Cincy corners will make it.
Ball is on for a battle.
"If your good at something never do it for free." - The Joker
by houseofprime on Apr 26, 2009 8:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Cowgirls had the worst draft ever! Good luck suckers!
Eagles owned the draft. Giants did pretty good. ESPN analysts are ripping the cowgirls, saying everybody they picked were projected to be in the later rounds. What a joke! Your brand new stadium will be empty during the playoffs. You can count on it.
Taking Route 36 will bring you to Touchdown,PHI
by Route36 on Apr 26, 2009 8:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We'll see.
I AM THE LAST NAKED WARRIOR!
by Nelson... on Apr 26, 2009 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN analysts...
..is there anything they don’t know?
by Elwood62 on Apr 26, 2009 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whats new..
ESPN’s favorite game is to rip the Cowboys.
"If your good at something never do it for free." - The Joker
by houseofprime on Apr 26, 2009 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did our new stadium get a jail cell too!
Ignorance is no excuse, it's the real thing.
- Irene Peter
by CounterEMF on Apr 26, 2009 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What happened to "America's Team"?
I thought everybody loved you. I dislike ESPN too but this time they are right on the money.
Taking Route 36 will bring you to Touchdown,PHI
by Route36 on Apr 26, 2009 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what happened to nfl fans that can think above a fourth grade level
what happened to america’s team? that’s the best you could come up with how corny and elementary…
'he nails an open three from the corner....just like you and me, this one was made by penetration' - Truthaboutit - Round 1 Game 5 Recap
by KDP on Apr 26, 2009 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Philly can finally win something. Until then........
you’re still the stepchildren of the NFC East
by word smith on Apr 26, 2009 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What happened to the beagles in both SB appearances.
The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson
by squidlo97 on Apr 27, 2009 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's cool
At least you know that your superb draft will at least double the amount of super bowls the Eagles have won.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by AirforceBat on Apr 26, 2009 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The last time we had an elite receiver.
We went to the Superbowl. Next year we have 2. With Desean and Maclin who is gonna stop us. Look at our offense. Mcnabb, Westy, Djax, Maclin, McCoy, Weaver, Curtis, Avant, Celek, Ingram. Not too mention the best O-line in the NFL and 3rd best defense.
Taking Route 36 will bring you to Touchdown,PHI
by Route36 on Apr 26, 2009 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
kinda tough to make an argument for a team
that has ZERO super bowl victories…
quit dreaming, mcnabb will be lucky to stay healthy all season, and even if he does… you’ll still be a long shot to make the nfc championship, let alone the super bowl…
by CowboysFan4Life on Apr 26, 2009 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I recognize
a couple of names, Mcnabb and Westbrook, no clue on the other ones you mentioned. But let me give you a few names everybody around the NFL knows about.
Tony Romo
Roy Williams
Marion Barber
Felix Jones
Jason Witten
by DCowboy on Apr 26, 2009 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Tony “Choke” Homo
Roy “Bust” Williams
Marion “3,7 avg ypc” Barber
Felix " Injured reserve" Jones
I give you Jason Witten to be fair. lol.
Taking Route 36 will bring you to Touchdown,PHI
by Route36 on Apr 26, 2009 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All right, I'm done
Just having some fun :)
Taking Route 36 will bring you to Touchdown,PHI
by Route36 on Apr 26, 2009 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's cool.
Superbowls are generally won on paper.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by AirforceBat on Apr 26, 2009 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha
+1. That worked so well for us last year when we were everyones favorite.
by DoomsdayD75 on Apr 26, 2009 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So wait, I'm a bit confused.
Are you saying DeShowboat Jackson is an elite receiver or not. B/c you first said “the last time we had an elite receiver we went to the Superbowl.” Now, I may have missed a few games last season, but the Iggles didn’t play in the Superbowl last year, so that would mean that you guys had no elite receivers last year, or at the very least, less than one.
But next year you will have two? Did Jackson suddenly grow a few more inches? Did he remember that to score a TD, you have to actually CROSS the goal line? What happened from last year to this to make Jackson suddenly become a star in your eyes.
Two super midget receivers. Whooptie freakin doo. Make sure you bring your Gummy Beary Juice to the games!
How Bout Them Cowboys!
by sprprsnmn on Apr 26, 2009 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea
I see how your 6"4 receivers did for ya. Maclin is 6’1. Desean was not elite last year. will be this year though. Anyways I’m done. I was just having some fun.
Taking Route 36 will bring you to Touchdown,PHI
by Route36 on Apr 26, 2009 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
....
Dude going around to different blogs is dorky enough, going to different blogs and talking trash based on the draft is just stupid.
I’m sure when your done a big game of world of warcraft will be waiting for you.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by AirforceBat on Apr 26, 2009 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait...
…so is DeSean an “elite receiver” or not? If he is, then the “last time [you] had an elite receiver” was last season, when you just barely squeaked into the first round of the playoffs and lost your next game. If he is not an elite receiver, then your post makes even less sense.
And, well, we all know the status of your trophy case. Go troll on the Browns board. Wait… they’ve won championships. Umm, the… umm… Redskins? No… Ok, I guess I understand why you’re on our board. There just aren’t many franchises with histories as weak as yours, so you’re forced to ignore your own team’s inferiority in order to troll. I get it. As far as I am concerned, any comments you wish to make are welcome here. I feel sorry for you.
by BackInTown on Apr 26, 2009 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
isn't there an unwritten rule...
that you have to win a superbowl before you can talk sh$t?
by Barbie Carpenter on Apr 26, 2009 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't there an unwritten rule...
that when a team can’t win a playoff game for 13 straight years should be banned to play in the NFL.
Taking Route 36 will bring you to Touchdown,PHI
by Route36 on Apr 26, 2009 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about getting banned for not wiining a super bowl for the last 40 years?
by DCowboy on Apr 26, 2009 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DCowboy, just end it.
don’t feed the fire.
by falconPUNCH on Apr 26, 2009 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, then you guys didn't win one from 1960 until 1979
so I guess the Eagles were banned in 1973??
Do we now get forfeits for any losses since then?
by Realist Larry on Apr 26, 2009 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that same rule applies to teams that haven’t won a playoff game in 13 years.
by Bye, Dawk :( on Apr 26, 2009 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Taking Route 36 will bring you to Touchdown,PHI
by Route36 on Apr 26, 2009 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
About the draft.
When you guys drafted Bloom and Justice, everyone gave you a great grade. That didn’t turn out so well.
i’m not trying to poke fun, or anything.
but, how can you judge the draft so early? it makes you sound like casual fans.
by falconPUNCH on Apr 26, 2009 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with the trolls
Jerry didn’t draft my guys, he drafted his guys. My guys are based on reading a bunch of web sites and limited view of several teams. My biggest heartburn comes from selecting players too early. For example I thought Duke Robinson would have been good value at 51, the entire NFL thought otherwise.
Jerry’s guys are based on the views of pro scouts. Combine numbers and Mel Kiper can only take you so far. I think several of the prospects could have been picked up later. Certainly Jerry has made bad picks before, some of these guys will fail, but some will also stick.
I can’t wait to see how these guys play in camp, and I’m looking forward to one of the new LBs knocking the snot out of Eli and Donny
by birdness on Apr 26, 2009 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very good perspective.
You’re right, I was high on Duke too… looks like we know jack crap.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by AirforceBat on Apr 26, 2009 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some of the websites we read on the players
have comments by pro scouts and guys like Gil Brandt – these guys are pretty knowledgable
by BishopWest on Apr 26, 2009 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
When Dallas went against the grain on almost every pick, they invited the poor grades to come.
I suspect a lot of D’s and F’s from the pundits.
"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
by 5Blings on Apr 26, 2009 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont think it was against the grain 5Blings....
It was they were a step behind every player they wanted so they had to settle. They did reach on alot of these players and I’m not sure how many will be around in Sept. I’ll go out and say 3 or 4 make the team at best and that may be too many. I don’t know….
One thing is certain. We needed to improve the D-line and O-line and it didn’t happen.
by Boyzfan94 on Apr 26, 2009 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought LB
was a bigger need than defensive line.
Well I guess NT is a pretty big need, but unfortunatly NT’s were reeeeeeeealy thin.
I knew that it was thin when the Pats grabbed Ron Brace so early.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by AirforceBat on Apr 26, 2009 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LB was a need and I was all for drafting one with the 2nd rounder even....
but I never thought we would draft this many.
by Boyzfan94 on Apr 26, 2009 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me
..either.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by AirforceBat on Apr 26, 2009 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Philly also owned the 2006 draft....
How did that worked out?
The analysts gave your team a shiny trophy to take some space off the empty trophy case?
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
by Chandus on Apr 26, 2009 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
After reading up on the Cincy corners,
I’m really loving those picks. I can’t believe Mickens was there in the 7th. Has great speed and led the nation in Ints.
"If your good at something never do it for free." - The Joker
by houseofprime on Apr 26, 2009 8:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
actually, he does not have speed.
he’s very Anthony Henry-like.
by falconPUNCH on Apr 26, 2009 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I read that he was a track superstar in high school.
Hey if hes a young Henry thats really good value in the 2nd round.
"If your good at something never do it for free." - The Joker
by houseofprime on Apr 26, 2009 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
7th round*
"If your good at something never do it for free." - The Joker
by houseofprime on Apr 26, 2009 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah. He's fast enough, i guess
but, he’s no burner.
look him up on youtube, or something. i’m telling you, Henry-2.
great value.
by falconPUNCH on Apr 26, 2009 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I saw some of his highlights..
looks like a very good player.
"If your good at something never do it for free." - The Joker
by houseofprime on Apr 26, 2009 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tex gets a QB...
The most important position in all of sports has been adequately addressed. Off to Santorini with some piece of mind.
by Montecito Tex on Apr 26, 2009 8:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
too bad he'll never play unless Romo gets hurt
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Apr 26, 2009 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he'll never play unless
romo and kitna get hurt
by BishopWest on Apr 26, 2009 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Next Year
The wild card in this draft is the upcoming uncapped year. I’d rather have a bunch of players that might make the team rather than a $78 million kid that has to make the team and be darn good or sink the team in salary cap hell.
by steelyeyedmissle on Apr 26, 2009 8:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I believe
that was part of Jerry’s thinking this whole draft. Shore up the bottom 25 on our roster because there were very few if any kids in this draft that were going to walk in and start over our current starters. so why pay them like that? I think you hit the nail right on the head.
by jevans1729 on Apr 26, 2009 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We Certainly Have Nothing on the Patriots This Offseason
But if the guys we took make the team and contribute it’s not a bad draft. We’ll have to wait and see.
by Cowboys4Life on Apr 26, 2009 9:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
dc.com:
All the talk of the Cowboys creating a hybrid position for second-year cornerback Orlando Scandrick has died off recently, and Scandrick said he would be staying at corner.
Well, sort of. It might not be the switch to safety/slot cornerback job that was initially reported, but the Cowboys will do some things differently with the steal of last year’s draft. Jerry Jones spilled the beans when asked about the anticipated competition between Scandrick and Mike Jenkins, last year’s first-round pick.
"I think you’ll see Scandrick inside," Jones said. "And I think you’ll see us in a configuration with those corners out there the majority of the time, with Scandrick inside. No I don’t think they’ll compete against each other as much as that’ll just be the principle. I just think we’ll have it in there a lot. And really we were going to do it before we got (Gerald) Sensabaugh."
Until we can really see the way the corners will be deployed in training camp, it’s tough to predict the alignment. Scandrick will remain the slot cornerback, but he could spend more time covering tight ends or running backs out of the backfield, similar to the way the Cowboys used Anthony Henry in their dime defense last season.
Jones said third-year pro Alan Ball and rookie fifth-rounder DeAngelo Smith would both play a combination of safety and cornerback. Getting Smith allowed the Cowboys to draft more of a true safety in Clemson’s Michael Hamlin, and they like the versatility of the defensive backfield as currently assembled.
by foyesboys on Apr 26, 2009 9:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This draft looks great for Wade's 46.
by falconPUNCH on Apr 26, 2009 9:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
hmm
didn’t even consider this…..the massive amount of olb/de picks seem to support this
by foyesboys on Apr 26, 2009 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
doesn't it seem like a great idea?
by falconPUNCH on Apr 26, 2009 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
its possible
this D was doing real well before the roof fell in at the end of the baltimore game. Grabbing more depth at DE/olb and secondary is obviously a solution
by foyesboys on Apr 26, 2009 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The new OLBs and Williams will get playing time in the 46
more athletes on the field.
by falconPUNCH on Apr 26, 2009 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jason Williams was key for this
He’s a big, speedy MLB, who can play on 1st and 2nd downs. Burnett, not so much.
by Rafael Vela on Apr 26, 2009 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jason Williams reminds me of Pat Willis
… I know, I know.
Burnett reminds me of… well, Bobby Carp.
by falconPUNCH on Apr 26, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Help me by giving me some specifics of why you think so
by BishopWest on Apr 26, 2009 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mentioned this in my last post.
I think that the DE from tech would be another good pass rusher oposite ware and have ratliff and spears on the inside.
have these S/ILB guys play zone in the shallow middle of the field and then have 3 deep/on man/blitzing
something like that
What would Ware and Suggs look like together? Bring on the uncapped year.
by Zak on Apr 26, 2009 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like This? Show me what you mean?
newman (williams?) ratliff spears ware jenkins?
james brookings (butler?)
sensi
hamlin
by BishopWest on Apr 26, 2009 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
46 defense
four down lineman (shifted to the weak side)
three lbs (both Will and Sam backer on the strong side of the line) Mike stays in the middle
4 dbs (cbs on the wrs; ss up for run support; fs back for deep coverage)
by BishopWest on Apr 26, 2009 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are
so right. Or you can now go 2-5-4 with only two down linemen and have 5 lbs and 4 dbs. Now where is the blitz coming from? This could get downright scary!
by jevans1729 on Apr 26, 2009 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
size & physics
If you’re gonna be an every down MLB in a 3-4 you need to be at least 240, unless you’re Donnie Edwards stacked behind a 345 lb. NT like Jamal Williams.
Burnett goes 228. Williams is 241, almost exactly the same size as Bradie James, only a lot
faster. Put him in an offseason program and he’ll probably bulk up closer to 245-250 and still
run in the 4.5s.
He’s a bulkier Burnett. Burnett could play in the 46 but Dallas didn’t play him on 1st and 2nd downs in the base 3-4 cause they thought he was too small to play man-on-man vs. 320 lb. guards.
The key to playing MLB is having size and speed. Mike Singletary was the prototype, cause he was a fireplug on run downs but Buddy Ryan could drop him into the deep middle on pass downs, the way Chicago does with Brian Urlacher now.
Burnett had the wheels and coverage skills, but again, he wasn’t getting any bigger.
by Rafael Vela on Apr 26, 2009 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
in the 46
who do you think our 3 lbs will be? Williams and who?
by BishopWest on Apr 26, 2009 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You could count on S Hodge getting some PT in that formation..probably a good reason he was drafted.....plus he kicks azz in ST..
Led the nation in sacks from a secondary player as a junior……..he’s going to be a designated blitzer in the sub packages…
by My_2_Cents on Apr 26, 2009 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 46 lacked two elements last year to really make it hum
a kick ass, three down MLB and a SS who would line up in the box and pop people.
The team has promising options at both those spots now.
by Rafael Vela on Apr 26, 2009 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Williams at MLB and James and Spencer flanking the TE
by Rafael Vela on Apr 26, 2009 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brookings will probably get some play at MLB too
by Rafael Vela on Apr 26, 2009 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So who is the SS that can pop people?
4 down linemen – ________?, ratliff, spears, ware
3 lbs – (williams,) james, spencer
4 dbs – newman, jenkins/scandrick, hamlin, sensi?
by BishopWest on Apr 26, 2009 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hodge is the new SS that can pop people.
Being a hybrid safety/linebacker, you’d have to think his best chance to see time this year would be in the 46, where the SS is right near the line in pure run support
"When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time." -Max McGee
by BigDinSC on Apr 26, 2009 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
line 'em up like this:
set up a base 3-4, with Spears and Olshansky over the OTs and Ratliff on the nose,
4 lbs with Spencer over the TE and Ware on the weak side., Brookings and James at ILB spots, James to the strong side and Brookings weak.
Secondary has the two safeties in halves.
Before the snap, slide each DE inside, so they’re lined up over the guards.
Have Spencer on the TE’s outside shoulder. When the shifting is going, walk James over so he lines up over the TE’s inside shoulder.
Brookings slides over so he’s lined up in space but over the strongside OT.
The FS walks up so he’s stacked behind the weakside DE, who’s now a DT. In effect, he’s lined up as a second ILB.
This is the Bears 46, only difference being Ware is in a two point stance at weakside end, rather than playing with his hand down.
It’s a 4-4 look, or a 3-5, with three down linemen, three OLBs in Ware, James and Spencer, and two ILBs — the MLB, and the SS. Considering Hodge is 230 lbs. he fits the profile, though Hamlin is pretty good sized too and can do this.
The CBs play man and Ken Hamlin plays centerfield.
by Rafael Vela on Apr 27, 2009 12:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks for the walk-thru
that’s what I was looking for.
Man – I want to see that in ACTION!
by BishopWest on Apr 27, 2009 1:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
pop in a tape of the 2nd Washington game
they played most of it in the 46.
Ratliff went off on Casey Rabach
by Rafael Vela on Apr 27, 2009 1:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you’re gonna be an every down “Sam” in a 3-4 you need to be more physical and aggressive at the point of attack. Size does help.
Williams – more likely – will play “Will”. Which would take advantage of his raw quickness and speed. He is very aggressive at the POA based on film. Which is a huge value add for someone who has to scrape to the play and watch weak-side run lanes such as a “Will”.
The only challenge is acclimating him to read plays as they develop and stay disciplined within his assignments. If he can master that part of the position – we will have a pro-bowl type player. He looks freaky on film. A human ball-magnet with conviction.
Barbie Carpenter will have a hard time staying on this team if Williams pans out in the pre-season.
by rotovibe on Apr 27, 2009 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
in the presser
jj said williams was drafted to take the place of Burnett – however, he is bigger and faster, so there are some advantages
by BishopWest on Apr 27, 2009 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet he eventually crawls up to the starting lineup after his main role as nickel backer gets solidified.
every team wants to have an every-down player. He has the potential to play 3 downs in my opinion. It’s all up to him and his development and how long that takes. Will he start over Brookings this year? Probably not.
But he can potentially take that position in the future just based on his ability.
by rotovibe on Apr 27, 2009 12:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I totally said this last post.
What would Ware and Suggs look like together? Bring on the uncapped year.
by Zak on Apr 26, 2009 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm having a little trouble - what did you say last post?
by BishopWest on Apr 26, 2009 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that this draft kind of made it seem like a switch to a 46 is more possible.
What would Ware and Suggs look like together? Bring on the uncapped year.
by Zak on Apr 26, 2009 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if scandrick plays some safety, and mickens/Smith can play decent nickel
it would improve us
by foyesboys on Apr 26, 2009 9:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Were Folk's short/errant kicks caused by the player, or by scheme?
Sometimes it felt like Read was telling the kid to put it up as high as possible so coverage could get underneath it.
by Urinal Mint on Apr 26, 2009 9:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Last year he was the first kicker drafted
but only the second best available. The Packers don’t need a kick off specialist for Mason Crosby. Still Folk proved himself. Romo just needs to get them a few yards closer.
by birdness on Apr 26, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His Leg Just Looked Weak to Me
Even if he were told to make directional or loft kicks, he should have gotten better distance on them. Ken Willis used to directionally kickoff for Dallas back in the early 1990’s, and his kicks would regularly reach the five yard line, and he wasn’t known as having a strong leg. I love Folk’s clutch field goals, but we have to stop the bleeding on special teams. Getting a kicker who occasionally denies an elite returner the chance to even touch the ball sounds like a major improvement to me.
And in the press conference, Jerry and Wade talked about keeping both kickers active on game day.
by kindablue on Apr 26, 2009 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You gotta remember though...
Ken Willis had the advantage of kicking five yards closer and with a higher tee.
by troysboys on Apr 26, 2009 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What happened to Keith Davis??
I think i missed something…did Keith Davis sign somewhere else??
by thejanusman on Apr 26, 2009 9:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So have we ruled out bringing him back??
Coz…everyone is talking of Hodge replacing Davis…i am not sure the possibility of having both on our roster is ruled out
by thejanusman on Apr 26, 2009 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bringing Davis back
would go against the direction the team is going in.
they want to replace the Davis-like players
by falconPUNCH on Apr 26, 2009 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's wrong with Davis??
I thought he was the only consistent guy on out ST’s last year…plus he did fill in at the Safety position when RW1 went down.
by thejanusman on Apr 26, 2009 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and why did we draft some guys just like him then?
by BishopWest on Apr 26, 2009 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not justifying
this pick, but if he is a s good as Davis was on ST, we are getting a younger cheaper version, also Davis has been injured lately.
by DCowboy on Apr 26, 2009 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...
But i still would re-sign Davis if he is out there…guy lays it all out on the field….i like the intensity that he plays with
by thejanusman on Apr 26, 2009 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He sucks, wants too much money, and is one of the few safeties in the league worse than RW.
Our coverage teams were not great with him.
Boy, does he get too much credit here.
Let him go, he’s getting older.
No arguments about his heart, but let’s get younger/cheaper for ST coverage units. A guy has to be out-there great——Bill Bates, or the gyu that used to play for the Bills——-Tasker?—-to sign for pretty much just special teams.
by Realist Larry on Apr 26, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 Larry....
this is a first…lol..
by My_2_Cents on Apr 26, 2009 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha! Bout time you got onboard!
by Realist Larry on Apr 26, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm on board with letting Keith Davis walk.....
and with the selections we’ve made…I’m ready to see at least , LB-Barbie, S-Watkins, LB-Octavien, OL-McQuistan, and possibly LB-Rodgers walk as well…..
by My_2_Cents on Apr 26, 2009 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A lot of rookie have chances to stick
1. Jason WIliams for Burnett;
2. Brewster challenges McQuistan
3. McGee kicks Bollinger to the curb;
4. Butler takes Justin Rogers’ spot;
5. Williams gets Octavien’s/Polks/Carpenter’s old spot
6. Hamlin has Davis’ old spot;
7. Hodge displaces Battle
8. Smith challenges Watkins
9. Phillips takes Curtis’ old spot (Rodney Hannah can’t block
folks. Unless he takes his John Mackey pills, he’s done.)
Don’t know about the kicker but it seems the team is ready to keep two, unless Buehler is so accurate they deal Folk.
I can see ten or eleven of these guys sticking without much difficulty. Mickens and the WR are the longer shots.
by Rafael Vela on Apr 27, 2009 1:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really Raf?
I have been hearing that Mickens is one of our better value picks, and was an early rounder before the knee injury. Any particular reason you think he’s a long shot to challenge Ball? Is it just Ball’s comfort in the system?
"When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time." -Max McGee
by BigDinSC on Apr 27, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw this and my heart stopped for a second
Dolphins | Baker signed
I was like, “damn you Parcells!” Then I looked below the headline and saw this:
Jeff Darlington, of the Miami Herald, reports the Miami Dolphins have signed undrafted free-agent DE Ryan Baker (Purdue).
Then relief set in. I feel like I am god’s personal yo yo some times.
by quincyyyyy on Apr 26, 2009 9:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I didn't watch all the draft and had to get caught up and I was shocked he wasn't drafted....
We better get him, but we have been pretty good IMO about getting good UDFAs
by nicholas.rodriguez on Apr 26, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
doesn't seem to be the case this year
a lot of the good ones have been snatched up
by foyesboys on Apr 26, 2009 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where can you get good info
Where can you get good info on the undrafted free agents that are signing?
by Rocky1013 on Apr 26, 2009 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love the attitude of this draft
Not sure how good these players are but it seems as if the bottom of the roster, defense, ST’s AND qb have been put on alert. WP had some input on this draft and while he’s not much of a HC, I trust his judgement on defensive players for sure. Maybe he’ll look like a better HC with more of his type of players on the roster.
And maybe with Kitna and a promising young qb waiting in the wings, Hollywood Romo can focus a little more on football instead of all the other BS
by fretman on Apr 26, 2009 9:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I would have like a trade into 2010
12 guys can’t stick.
by birdness on Apr 26, 2009 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
better odds
finding at least 4 that will
by fretman on Apr 26, 2009 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
true
but 12 guys don’t have to stick. I can see 7-9 roster battles…interestingly, with a kickoff specialist and 3rd qb, there will also be intra-position battles.
by foyesboys on Apr 26, 2009 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sounds like
a lot of these guys are very coachable. I think Wade will get some production out of these guys
by fretman on Apr 26, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i really can't say what the coaches were going for
but i doubt that mcgee was brought in to challenge romo. More like to sit a couple years and gain knowledge and some experience and either a. If three years from now, Romo has declined, or b. provide us with qb depth so we don’t need to sign veteran backups every 2 years.
by foyesboys on Apr 26, 2009 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
correct
hes a few years away and wont challenge yet. But I think Romos mentallity will be a little different now knowing JJ and co. arent so complacent with him anymore
by fretman on Apr 26, 2009 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we have different opinions of romo's mentality lol.
but im not gonna start an argument about that, theres been enough arguing today lol.
I think Romo’s got a good head on his shoulders,he works hard every offseason and in practice, what he needs to do is learn when a play is dead and when to put aside that gunslinger mentality. Eliminate a couple dumb turnovers and he’ll be golden.
by foyesboys on Apr 26, 2009 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no worries here bro
Dont get me wrong. Im not a Romo hater by any means. Sometimes I think he takes the celb thing a little too far but I’ll take him over most right now
by fretman on Apr 26, 2009 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hodge will be an inside linebacker, not a SS
by quincyyyyy on Apr 26, 2009 9:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
how do you know?
I’d rather he stay at SS
by BishopWest on Apr 26, 2009 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because he is 235
and compact as he is 5’11 1/2. Plus he runs a hair under 4.6.
by quincyyyyy on Apr 26, 2009 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
redskins signed chase daniels
for what its worth (nothing)……
by foyesboys on Apr 26, 2009 10:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So, I end up at Yahoo sports, and they have a link that leads here!
Pretty nice.
Were our leaders aware?
by Realist Larry on Apr 26, 2009 10:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It's looking like all of the other 3-4 lineman are being snatched up by other teams
you got to imagine that Baker is our guy… At least that is what I keep on telling myself.
by quincyyyyy on Apr 26, 2009 10:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
the Chargers signed Darry Beckwith
I would have liked to get him and let him compete with the rest of the LB’s
by DCowboy on Apr 26, 2009 10:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Can't believe
That we didn’t get Michael Bennet. We had to have just had no interest in him.
Would have liked to have seen at least 1 of Boone, Cadogan, Joel Bell, or Sam Allen signed to compete on the offensive line.
by Rocky1013 on Apr 26, 2009 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
looks like Quan Cosby is still an unsigned free agent
I wonder whats wrong w/ him that no one has signed him….I understand his age being a reason he wasnt drafted…but he was damn good, and now that you do not have to waste a pick on him, it confuses me that he still hasn’t been picked up yet…
by VTcowboys16 on Apr 26, 2009 10:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Kind of like the Oggeltree signing for us though, has he ever returned kicks?
Hopefully we will be able to sneak him through to the practice squad, he should have never cam out early.
by Rocky1013 on Apr 26, 2009 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not that i can remember...
I go to Virginia Tech, and we played them every season…and I never remember him returning kicks…in his sophemore year he had like 600 yards recieving and 4 touchdowns…and in his junior year he had like 700 yards and 5 touchdowns…of course their QB was never that good, so who knows, he could be steal…
by VTcowboys16 on Apr 26, 2009 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pros like virginia players
they just don’t amount to much while in school
by AustonianAggie on Apr 27, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, cosby is a savvy route runner and could fit in on PR and KR
What would Ware and Suggs look like together? Bring on the uncapped year.
by Zak on Apr 26, 2009 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Someone will sign him...
I honestly think that he could go to a place like Chicago or Miami and compete right away for a 3rd or 4th role.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by AirforceBat on Apr 26, 2009 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a strange
draft to say the least. It just goes to show you how much you end up missing that 1st round pick, Yea, I know, Roy Williams is our 1st round pick this year but it will be nice to have one again next year. For what it’s worth, I thought NE & Pittsburgh had good drafts. We have to have one of those OLB hit. I think the OL we got from Ball State is underrated and will end up being a solid pick. Hamlin could start at SS for us soon.
by tyler2 on Apr 26, 2009 10:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
in the post-draft press conference...
Jerry seemed pretty sold on SS Hamlin…i urge everyone to go to the cowboys home page and watch it…its long, but it gives a lot of insight on the motives behind the picks…
by VTcowboys16 on Apr 26, 2009 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jerry, Steven and Wade seem thrilled about our picks.
watching this press conference. For anyone thats completely doubting these guys, i’d advise listening to this.
by foyesboys on Apr 26, 2009 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
just finished listening to it
and you’re right, it does answer some questions – lengthy but worth it
by BishopWest on Apr 27, 2009 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
udfa
Chadd Cripe, of the IdahoStatesman.com, reports the Dallas Cowboys have agreed to terms with undrafted free-agent WR Julian Hawkins (Boise State). Terms of the contracts were not disclosed.
by FearRomo on Apr 26, 2009 11:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow Wow weeeeeee wow!
I’m not suprised with the negative reaction, I’m not exactly crazy about this draft, but the fact that there are some people who have complained for a good 24 hours is very impressive.
Its that kind of consistency I hope Dallas shows this year. : )
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by AirforceBat on Apr 26, 2009 11:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if there is a chance that JJ will go after
Leroy Hill and Ken Lucus?
by 082288 on Apr 26, 2009 11:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I woudl also like to see them bring in Quan Cosby
I know Dallas likes big WR’s but Cosby was a good kick returner in college
by 082288 on Apr 26, 2009 11:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Cosby
If someone, preferrably the Cowboys, don’t bring in Cosby, they are idiots.
I watched that guy for his entire college career and he’s nothing but MONEY….He’s a perfect slot/3rd down posession WR and a damn good return man. Would be perfect for Dallas as a special teams player and a 5th or 6th WR. Would rather have him than Hurd.
by Gmunny on Apr 26, 2009 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Draft Grades
What do they really mean?
I remember the Vikings got a pretty good grade that year they got Troy Williamson and a few other players.
It was a high B or an A.
Now? Every player in that class isnt’ on the team anymore.
It’s all projections.
Some are right, some are wrong.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by AirforceBat on Apr 26, 2009 11:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
they mean nothing
but I like that they have post draft grades so that you can compare the real draft grades 3 years from now to them and see how wrong the experts are.
by foyesboys on Apr 26, 2009 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I understand WHY they do it, if anything it gives ESPN something to talk about and the fans, I just know that it’s a shot in the dark.
The Patriots got a good grade after they drafted Maroney and Chad Jackson in the first two rounds…. so you know what I mean?
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by AirforceBat on Apr 26, 2009 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea
i mean to some extent its a little luck – for example, chad jackson was drafted to a pats team that had nothing at the wr position, but he got hurt and then they signed moss and welker so he didn’t really get a solid chance to show what he had.
by foyesboys on Apr 26, 2009 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When Wade was in atlanta under reeves
they carried 2 kickers apparently, he has a positive opinion of it obviously.
by foyesboys on Apr 26, 2009 11:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
if you watch the post draft press conference
that is EXACTLY what they’re planning on – 2 kickers
1 for touchbacks on the kick offs
by BishopWest on Apr 27, 2009 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, now that that's over-time for my Mock Draft for next year:
OL
OL
OL
OL
OL
OL
Uh, TE and LB
by Realist Larry on Apr 26, 2009 11:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
you forgot to get a safety and nt ;)
by BishopWest on Apr 27, 2009 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't have it all, man.
But I know we’ll get TE and LB!
“Not that there’s anything wrong with that!”
by Realist Larry on Apr 27, 2009 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A few questions for the draft experts here:
Scandrick, Choice, and Canty have been used a lot to tout all of Dallas’ picks in the back rounds of this draft. Canty was considered a potential 1st rounder but fell due to injury and character concerns, and Scandrick and Choice were considered potential second rounders but fell to us in later rounds.
Who are our draft picks this year that were projected as potentially going higher than where the Cowboys took them, or were considered to have first or second round talent but fell due to injury or character concerns?
Yesterday everyone was saying Dallas traded down to get better values, so what were their 3 best value picks?
If the LB depth was so impressive in this draft, wouldn’t it have been better to more aggressively go after some of the less stacked positions where we had need and then use our huge number of back round picks to mine the substantial LB depth?
If that chart justifies Brewster going that early, does it also not justify that Dallas should have taken one of many available players at 51 that were on that chart around that value?
by Baked Potato Soup on Apr 26, 2009 11:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
McGee was considered at 69
Williams had a 3rd round grade.
I don’t know about Brewster but I imagine he had a 3rd as well.
Vollmer had a 4th
Don’t know about the two OLBs.
I think we’ll learn D’Angelo Smith may have had a higher grade than the 5th.
Best bets to become every down players —
Both Williams, McGee and Brewster
Smith could fill a Scandrick-like role.
by Rafael Vela on Apr 27, 2009 1:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The UFA Ogelltree...............
Had a 4-5th round grade on a few sources, nobody was really sure why he decided to declare early for the draft considering he was not a high round lock.
by Rocky1013 on Apr 27, 2009 5:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Mickens was a top 5 CB, and considered a fringe 1st rounder....he injured his knee late in the season, and wasn't able to perform at the senior bowl games...
by My_2_Cents on Apr 26, 2009 11:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
was the he guy who tried going at the Senior Bowl and had to shut it down after a day?
by Rafael Vela on Apr 27, 2009 1:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
He wasnt able to complete the senior bowl and other offseason workouts. Although Wade said in the presser that he’s back working out and his speed/times have improved with each testing. The med staff cleared him to go for the first minicamp.
by Ridgelake on Apr 27, 2009 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not to say he's an elite cover corner...but overall package is top notch....will need time to develope..get stronger, healthier, and bigger...not great timed speed..but a steal for 7th round...imo..
every site had him 2nd-3rd round…
by My_2_Cents on Apr 26, 2009 11:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice.
I’ll keep my eye on him.
by Baked Potato Soup on Apr 27, 2009 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
RAF - Doesn't the drafting of Beuhler hi-light Dallas' poor draft day decesion making?
Not simply today, but two years ago.
…In the ‘07 draft Dallas had the choice of Crosby, a local kid who was beleived the best kicker in that draft or Nick Folk. Crosby supposedly had the bigger leg, but Dallas thought they outsmarted the league by choosing Folk, thinking that Crosby’s “bigger leg” was really due to his playing college ball in Boulder, CO. Now, Folk has proven to be a great pressure FG kicker….but Crosby has too, and had Dallas selected Crosby, they might not have used a 5th round pick today on a second kicker…when they could have used a better DB, a NT, an OL or a WR.
Thoughts?
by Gmunny on Apr 27, 2009 12:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't doubt the war room ever!!!!!!
It’s literally impossible for them to make poor decisions. In 5 years, you will eat your words.
by Baked Potato Soup on Apr 27, 2009 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hind sight is 20-20
perhaps they thought that having a kicker with greater FG percentage was a higher priority
and maybe they thought with strength and conditioning, Folk would get stronger and have touchbacks – well, it didn’t happen
by BishopWest on Apr 27, 2009 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Folk's percentage was better, it wasn't by much
…and Crosby had the bigger leg and was also a local Dallas kid.
by Gmunny on Apr 27, 2009 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not down on Folk
I’m just saying, this management team seems to outsmart themselves and it costs them.
Had they made the consensus pick back in ‘07, they’d still have a great kicker and would likely not have needed to use one today on another AND, would save a valuable roster spot, which will now likely go to carrying 2 kickers.
by Gmunny on Apr 27, 2009 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok they made a mistake in 07
today they covered the mistake – I don’t think they should get rid of Folk
by BishopWest on Apr 27, 2009 12:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry I would still rather have Folk
last season Folk had a 91% and Crosby had a 79.4%. The extra roster spot is worth it for that kind of production.
by quincyyyyy on Apr 27, 2009 12:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus Buelher can cover kicks and punts
so it’s not like his only responsibility on game day will be kick offs
by quincyyyyy on Apr 27, 2009 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm wondering how much they'll ask their longball kicker to cover on ST?
I’ve never seen that done before. I guess it’s possible, though.
by Johnny Cage on Apr 27, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is strong, athletic, and a good tackler
I bet he’ll be covering punts on gameday to justify his roster spot. He can also play linebacker or safety in a pinch
by quincyyyyy on Apr 27, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, every kicker is said to be the "last resort" tackler on a kickoff
I think he’ll still fill the exact same role – no change
Now if he plays other positions when he is NOT kicking – that is a different animal
by BishopWest on Apr 27, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He'll prolly be on the hands team for onsiders.
Folk is pretty good at those, but they can do some more trickeroo stuff having 2 kickers on the field at the same time.
Trust them...they know what they're doing.
by Aaron Novinger on Apr 27, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hadn't even though of that.
Picture this: Buehler learns to use his left foot on onside kicks. 5 guys lined up on one side, 4 guys on the other. Folk lined up in a normal onside stance, Buehler mirrors him on the left. Both start running in unison. Which one is going to actually kick? Whichever one doesn’t kick has a running start in the exact direction the ball is traveling.
"When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time." -Max McGee
by BigDinSC on Apr 27, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, this certainly was a present for coach Joe C.
Trust them...they know what they're doing.
by Aaron Novinger on Apr 27, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
quite a bit of difference there!!!
by BishopWest on Apr 27, 2009 12:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last season Folk kicked 90.9%
Crosby 79.4%
by falconPUNCH on Apr 27, 2009 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crosby
Kicks in an outdoor stadium in Wisconson 8 games a year.
Folk kicks in Tx. Stadium
Big Difference.
I’m not saying Crosby is the better kicker. What I’m saying is at the time they were close and there were a lot of prognosticators who thought Crosby was the best kicker.
Maybe his numbers aren’t as good as Folks, but Folks’ kickoffs have caused Dallas to use a 5th rounder and a gameday roster spot on a second kicker.
I’d say that is pretty close to a push – but I’d rather have a slightly lower production (I say slightly because I think Crosby’s stats would be better in Tx. Stadium) and the extra roster spot.
by Gmunny on Apr 27, 2009 12:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry buddy no dice
The only time Folk missed field goals last year was when he kicked INDOORS.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8432/splits;_ylt=Asmw6ju9GX48eNXvcjEkRaz.uLYF
Another argument bites the dust
by quincyyyyy on Apr 27, 2009 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Folk is also a 100% in Windy conditions and Crosby is 75% in those conditions
by quincyyyyy on Apr 27, 2009 12:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a ridiculous argument
That just proves my point. Folk missed a kick in near perfect conditions. He shouldn’t. At least Crosby has elements to deal with.
Secondly, kicks are situational. It’s stupid to argue specific misses.
Third, I’m not arguing who is better. To this point Nick is better. But so much better that he’s worth carrying 2 kicker for?
by Gmunny on Apr 27, 2009 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry I also meant to say that Crosby is 83%
In mild to warm conditions
by quincyyyyy on Apr 27, 2009 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we could afford to use the 5th round pick. and, that’s the bottom line.
the draft could’ve turned out differently. maybe, more to your liking. but the talent core is in tact, and the brain trust chose to draft for special teams and J-will.
if Buehler (sp?) makes the roster, then he will contribute. what more can you ask from a 5th round pick?
by falconPUNCH on Apr 27, 2009 12:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is a better stat
in indoor, warm, and mild conditions Crosby is 83% and in the same conditions Folk is 90%.
by quincyyyyy on Apr 27, 2009 12:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude... i mean, 91%
we could afford to use the 5th round pick. and, that’s the bottom line.
the draft could’ve turned out differently. maybe, more to your liking. but the talent core is in tact, and the brain trust chose to draft for special teams and J-will.
if Buehler (sp?) makes the roster, then he will contribute. what more can you ask from a 5th round pick?
by falconPUNCH on Apr 27, 2009 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't you think
there is some spot that would have been better served by trying to upgrade in the 5th round than on a second kicker?. . . .and the roster spot is even worse…on a position that if they had the right guy, could/should afford them no need to carry 2.
by Gmunny on Apr 27, 2009 12:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear you
but what spot?
no olineman available could hel pright away.
i think, and i’m no “expert,” that the talent in rounds 2-4 was so similar that the brain trust felt comfortable dropping back and taking whoever they wanted to, based on needs.
by falconPUNCH on Apr 27, 2009 12:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At this point I can't even recall
who I wanted them to take. Maybe Rashad from Alabama…I can’t specifically recall if he was there, and I don’t have a specific name for you…but my point is twofold.
1. We have weaknesses. CB depth, Safety, WR, OL depth, NT. better to take a guy who might upgrade you in a position of need, rather than bolster a position of strength…Remember, we’re talking about kicker, not RB or some other position where carrying multiples makes sense.
2. Had they made the Crosby decision 2 yrs ago, we might have gone 12-4 in ‘08 and/or 8-8 in ’09, but we’d have been in the exact same position either year. But this year, that decision is going to cost a roster spot every week. That’s big.
Again, I’m not against Folk. I just think Jerry gets to “cute” with his decisions on draft day and more often than not, they bite us back. Folk may be the better kicker, but at what price? You don’t need the best kicker to win – just a good one.
by Gmunny on Apr 27, 2009 12:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our kick off team was so bad last year
that the 2nd kicker is not just a luxury, but a need pick
by BishopWest on Apr 27, 2009 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
but would we be in that position if Crosby was our kicker?
We would be better on Kickoffs. Maybe we’d have missed 1 or 2 more FG’s each year and what difference would that have made? At worst we would have been 12-4 in ‘07 and 8-8 last year, but what difference would that have been? In ’08 we didn’t win the SB and we didn’t get bounced because of our Kicking and last year we didn’t miss the playoffs because of our kicking…and it sure didn’t get us any further?
by Gmunny on Apr 27, 2009 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we can't change the past
we have Folk now. All they could do was try to improve the kickoff this year, so they made the best choice they could.
Forget the past, go forward with the best you can do – that’s the plan.
by BishopWest on Apr 27, 2009 1:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Were special teams the reason Dallas missed the playoffs?
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
by Seanrude on Apr 27, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it probably cost us the ARI game
and the poor Punt Coverage contributed to the PIT loss.
by BishopWest on Apr 27, 2009 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you could mak a pretty good argument
that consistently poor ST and injuries cost us a solid 2-3 wins last year.
At the very least, they blew the arizona game
by foyesboys on Apr 27, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
then it's a good thing Dallas shored up the ST
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
by Seanrude on Apr 27, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also don't forget maybe the divisional playoff against the G-men in 2007
Poor coverage in a punt put the Giants closer to the end zone
by chilaquiles on Apr 27, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
the defense let up 50 yards in the second half that game, but poor coverage gave the giants the ball around our 45 i think.
Also, crayton botched a punt that game that otherwise would’ve gottne us about 5-10 yards better field position, into giants territory. Just a godawful game for crayton.
by foyesboys on Apr 28, 2009 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quincy, Bishop
I think we won! haha… jk
by falconPUNCH on Apr 27, 2009 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mason's not a local Dallas kid
he went to Georgetown, 30 miles north of Austin. But your point is still valid he’s a Texas kid. Mason and I played football together in high school and I was really hoping the Cowboys would pick him. Mainly because I saw him kick 50+ FG’s in practice and in games. I knew his “big leg” wasn’t because of think Colorado air.
by TK19 on Apr 27, 2009 2:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is Folk a good kicker?
then he was a good pick.
He was ice in that Buffalo game. Can we be sure Crosby would have made those kicks?
by Rafael Vela on Apr 27, 2009 1:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This was a bad draft
We have been reduced to arguing over kickers
by birdness on Apr 27, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice link. I liked Denver's draft.
Looks like we’re getting Harrell?
Cowboys
WR Kevin Ogletree (Virginia)
WR Julian Hawkins (Boise St)
QB Graham Harrel (Texas Tech) (Tryout for Contract – could sign with Dallas)
Trust them...they know what they're doing.
by Aaron Novinger on Apr 27, 2009 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah, Baked, I forgot...
Around here, it’s shots of blue koolaide and hiphip’s all around for whatever Jerrah does
by Gmunny on Apr 27, 2009 12:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Jerry considered what his asst. coaches wanted to do at their positions and backed them by getting their guys.
Trust them...they know what they're doing.
by Aaron Novinger on Apr 27, 2009 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not at all
but its ridiculous to bash a draft immediately after it happens. You have no freakin clue how it will pan it and neither does anyone else.
by foyesboys on Apr 27, 2009 1:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, is it equally ridiculous to think they did a good job?
Same logic.
by Baked Potato Soup on Apr 27, 2009 3:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
EXACTLY
don’t grade the draft until this time next year, or maybe even three years from now
by BishopWest on Apr 27, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoa there Q-man
I think our posts are crossed. I was talking to Baked Potato soup about his sarcastic comment reply about questioning our draft after I posted about Beuhler/Folk/Crosby. I just type slowly, so it populated after you’re comment. I don’t know Baker or the other guys you are talking about and am not criticizing them or you.
by Gmunny on Apr 27, 2009 12:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So who exactly who is it you think I am bashing for taking whom?
by Gmunny on Apr 27, 2009 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you calling us cool aid drinkers and I don't think you know what you are talking about
by quincyyyyy on Apr 27, 2009 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude
I don’t recall if you were involved, but I was referencing a conversation from the night before to Baked Potato in which he and I were involved where I was critical of the team’s decisions not to move up and grab a difference maker on day one and someone bashed me for criticizing the team and questioned my right to express my opinion? Was that you? Cuz if it wasn’t then I wasn’t referencing you or talking to you.
by Gmunny on Apr 27, 2009 12:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As for not knowing what I'm talking about, that's your opinoin,
but I think it’s simple, Folk and Crosby had separate skill sets that I think were tradeoffs. Folk is more acurate, Crosby has a better kickoff leg. I value the roster spot so much that I’d take a dip in accuracy in order to carry only one kicker…and by the history of the NFL, so would 97% of every team that’s ever been fielded.
by Gmunny on Apr 27, 2009 1:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Taking the roster spot away from whom? a special teamer who covers kicks
well guess what, Buehler covers kicks and punts, so who exactly would we be taking a roster spot from that would provide so much more value to us on game day?
by quincyyyyy on Apr 27, 2009 1:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anybody get the feeling that the Jones bros.
In this video of Hamlin, he tackles Tashard Choice for a loss.
Trust them...they know what they're doing.
by Aaron Novinger on Apr 27, 2009 12:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Weird...my comments merged
Trust them...they know what they're doing.
by Aaron Novinger on Apr 27, 2009 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hamlin and Choice were on opposing sides in that game after Choice's speech
GT won that one 13-3 IIRC or 13-6.
This is the year after both were on the teams where Clemson destroyed GT in prime time, and held Calvin Johnson to 0 yards receiving, while harassing the GT QB all game long. Clemson had over 300 yards rushing as CJ Spiller (100 rushing, and a 50 yard reception for 2 TDs) and James Davis (200 yards rushing and 3 TDs IIRC).
In ’08, however, Clemson had just fired Tommy Bowden in the week of the GT game, but Clemson still almost won against that Bobby Johnson offense. Hamlin was part of the defense that held the GT rushers for most of the game. Of course Choice was a Cowboy at the time.
This may have the makings of rivalry between the two on the team, especially since Hamlin will be tackling Choice in camp.
by mdlusk on Apr 27, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds great.
Trust them...they know what they're doing.
by Aaron Novinger on Apr 27, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My take
How many of us or anyone in the media saying, “Wow, the Cowboys struck gold by getting Marion Barber III?” Same goes with Jay Ratliff …… Canty? …… Marques Colston? ……. TJ Houshmandzadeh? …….. How many said, “The Cowboys signed Tony Romo as an undrafted FA, awesome move” You can’t judge a draft until 3 years later, so I hope no one is panicking.
My point being is …. no one, and I mean NO ONE can judge a draft and gives out awards for “winners” and “losers” 6 hours after the draft ends. Were any of the picks sexy? No. I like what Mike Mayock was saying. He basically said that the Cowboys didn’t need to find any starters or stars in the draft. They feel like they have the pieces to compete and win a title, even though they got rid of TO. They feel that it’s addition by subtraction. I agree to a certain extent. They need depth more than anything else.
Did the Cowboys have a sexy draft? No, not at all. I do believe that they got a little deeper, but that’s not as sexy as getting Maclin, or Hicks. Oh, and one more thing for people in the media ….. I like how all weekend I had to hear that the Bears and Falcons got Cutler and Gonzalez, respectfully, with draft picks from this year, so you gotta include that in their “grade” for this years draft, but no credit to the Boys for the RW trade. But I guess that’s cause RW is garbage, right?
Sorry if this looks or sounds stupid. I watched at least 5 or 6 hours of the draft this weekend, and I got a little sick of people saying the Cowboys had a bad draft. This was me venting. Now I feel better.
This suit is NOT black!!
by what_the_crap on Apr 27, 2009 1:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I like what Jerry said about the young players stepping up and having to draft guys behind them.
Real teams develop their own players.
Trust them...they know what they're doing.
by Aaron Novinger on Apr 27, 2009 2:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get what you're saying,
But Canty and Barber were considered pretty good picks, especially Canty.
by Baked Potato Soup on Apr 27, 2009 3:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Canty
wasn’t considered really good until he went to the Giants, of course.
Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.
by OskieOskie on Apr 27, 2009 7:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was considered good...
where he was taken. He had a second round value(I believe) and was picked in the 4th.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
by AirforceBat on Apr 27, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
last years draft was almost universally rated very high (A’s and B+’s) because of players like Jones and Scandrick.
http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2008/4/28/462274/dallas-cowboys-2008-nfl-dr
Sometimes the pundits are wrong. But there really is such a thing as a reach and we had lots of reaches in the 3-5th rounds. We got good value in the later rounds. But the guys we got were potential 4th-5th rounders; not 1st and 2nd rounders.
by JimmyJohnson on Apr 27, 2009 5:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
By Contrast
2007 was a pretty bad draft – saved only by the extra 1 in 2008 from the Brady Quinn deal. The experts rightly gave dallas terrible grades on the players they drafted but tempered those grades for the future #1.
http://sports.outsidethebeltway.com/2007/04/grading-the-dallas-cowboys-2007-draft/
by JimmyJohnson on Apr 27, 2009 5:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, yeah, I've heard that....
People defending his “team” prospect rankings and saying how a team like the Cowboys selected guys that they rated 2 or 3 rounds lower…
I wouldn’t listen to them.
Look at the 3 most respected top 100 and top 150 lists (Gosselin, Huddle Report and DraftCountdown), they all had Williams, Brewster and McGee as 3rd Round – early 4th Round prospects. So, they can’t look at the Cowboys picks and think “reach!”.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
by Chandus on Apr 27, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep - Williams was actually rated 2-3 round; not 3-4 round
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1256306
Not a Reach – they compare him to James Harrison
by BishopWest on Apr 27, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gonna be a fun camp
Cant wait to see all the TC battles
by fretman on Apr 27, 2009 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Raf - A quick question
Most of us like to follow the draft and I enjoy tracking who is taken and who I think we’ll pick when we are on the clock. I use a a few different magazines to help me with the ranking of players. I like the way Sporting News’ draft issue formats their picks on a one page summary. Showing overall grade, postion, and the round they value the pick. My problem is that I’m not thrilled with their evaluations. Which publication(s) do you think do the best job at grading players and predicting when they will probably be drafted?
by staubachfan on Apr 27, 2009 11:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I used to buy three or four every year
this year, I bought one.
I like the Sporting News’ method, because they actually have a board, like Dallas and a lot of other teams do.
But I couldn’t buy theirs this year becaue it was so sloppy. I read it in the bookstore one afternoon and didn’t see four guys I knew Dallas was considering in the middle rounds. Guys like Dorell Scott and Jasper Brinkley. Not even in the book.
That’s embarrassing.
I find it harder to spend money on them any more, cause they’re really expensive and because there’s so much more info available for free on the net.
by Rafael Vela on Apr 27, 2009 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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