Why "Roy Williams Was Our First Round Pick" is Bad Logic
Forgetting the fact that he cost a third rounder as well, Roy Williams signed a 5 year, $45 million dollar deal. Last year’s 20th pick Aqib Talib signed a 5 year, $14 million dollar deal. So you’re talking about not only a first rounder and a third rounder lost, but 6 million per year in salary cap space that could have been used to sign someone else pretty good if the Williams trade hadn't happened. That's why you can't just call Williams the first round pick, he is using a much larger amount of cap space than a draft pick would, and the saved money could be going to someone else. Would you trade the first rounder, the third rounder, and a good free agent for Roy Williams? Because of this, I think the Roy Williams trade was a clear loss for the Cowboys.
almost 3 years ago
Brendan Scolari
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Ummm
Would you trade the first rounder, the third rounder, and a good free agent for Roy Williams?
Who’s to say we could have gotten a “good” free agent? The bottom line is we don’t know what we could have gotten. As far as the picks go, it all depends on how good Williams ends up being. If he’s the kind of #1 receiver that Jerry Jones thinks, it’ll be well worth it.
Because of this, I think the Roy Williams trade was a clear loss for the Cowboys.
How can you call it a loss when he’s played half of a bad season with this team? Give the man some time to make an impact, if he pans out the Cowboys look great, if not, then you’ll be right. Way to soon to make a judgment like that.
Also
comparing a first round CB and a WR is apples and oranges. RW will outperform maclin, crabtree, hicks, heyward-bey, and britt. Guaranteed.
This suit is NOT black!!
Right
But will he be worth more than Harvin (or Nicks, Britt, whoever), a third rounder, and a good free agent? i think the answer is no.
by Brendan Scolari on Apr 29, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
depends on the FA
and everyone thinks that the WR core is thin now …. without RW, the best guy we’d have would be either a rookie, or Austin. not good
This suit is NOT black!!
Maybe
But you could have used the first and third to get Boldin/Edwards or something, if that’s the way you wanted to go.
by Brendan Scolari on Apr 30, 2009 1:55 AM CDT up reply actions
they
basically did. They used the 1st and 3rd on RW. I’d much rather have Boldin out of those 3, but I’m glad they got RW instead of depending on a rookie like the Giants are.
I respect your opinion, though.
This suit is NOT black!!
Fair enough.
I appreciate the civil discussion.
by Brendan Scolari on Apr 30, 2009 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Or
You could sign Housh and still have the picks. This would take up only a little more cap space than Roy’s contract currently is.
by Brendan Scolari on Apr 30, 2009 1:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Ok ill Explain
Roy Williams Trade. 1st round Draft pick 20th Overall 3rd round draftt pick 83rd Overall plus 6th round draft pick overall= 1030 pts which is equal to the 16th Round PIck Your gonna sit there and say Roy Williams who is and established player in the NFL and a Probowler in 2006 isnt worth the money? and Your saying Maclin, Harvin, Hicks would of all been better than Roy Williams???? I dont think so.
I thank God everyday i wasnt born a Eagles fan!!!!!!
I agree regaberto
Plus Jerry Jones as much as admitted that the RW trade was as much about getting out of the first round, as It was trading for a #1 wideout. So, in reality,Roy wasn’t taking money AWAY from a potential 1st round pick,as jerry would have traded out of the 1st round anyhow.
With an uncapped 2010 season on the horizon…the last thing Jerry wanted was to get stuck with a 1st round big money contract…for a player,in a weak draft,who may or may not even help this team.
Trust me…RW is our 1st rounder…and he’ll outperform every other wideout in the draft!!!
You'll never get in a traffic jam,while going the extra mile. -Roger staubach
Sigh
You are not getting my point apparently. The point is not that one of the rookie wideouts would outperform him, or even that he’s not worth his contract. The point is that he wasn’t worth BOTH the picks AND the large contract that could have been used on somebody else.
Looking at the trade in a vacuum (Roy vs. rookie WR) is wrong, because the money saved by not signing Roy to a monster deal could have been used on another established receiver anyway.
by Brendan Scolari on Apr 30, 2009 1:59 AM CDT up reply actions
You're not getting my point
We weren’t going to use that pick ANYHOW.
Jerry didn’t even use the #51 pick.
Roy is better than any player you’d have gotten…or any two players.
Hell we gave a first and a third…then didn’t even use our other 3rd….what does that tell you?
You'll never get in a traffic jam,while going the extra mile. -Roger staubach
That doesn't tell me anything.
How do you know they wouldn’t use the first rounder if they kept it? There’s no way for any of us to know.
And like I have said MULTIPLE times, you can’t just do a player-for-player comparison, because Roy has a much higher cap number than a first rounder. So even if Jerry used the first rounder, he STILL could have signed a veteran WR or somebody else to upgrade the team.
by Brendan Scolari on Apr 30, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Just like theres no way for any of us to know this was a bad move?
You dont make any sense… you come into a cowboys blog and try to insist that the move was bad when nobody knows how he will preform. also what did you think we would agree with you and bow down to your Super intelligent post? Then you state….. MULTIPLE TIMES you cant do a player-for-player comparison but yet you have Aqib Talib Mentioned in your post. Making a Player to Player comparison on there contracts…. YET AQIB TALIB wasnt a established PROBOWL CB when he signed that contract or im sure he would of got a figure closer to what Roy got.
I thank God everyday i wasnt born a Eagles fan!!!!!!
There's no point in continuing this conversation
If you won’t address my points. I used Aqib Talib because he was te 20th pick in the draft last year, the same as the ‘Boys pick this year would have been. Re-read the post if you want, but I’m not going to repeat my points again when you continue to ignore them. Just read the title of the post and you should at least be able to figure out that I’m not trying to prove that the Roy Williams trade was a bad move.
And I’ve been a member of this blog since last August, which is longer than you. I’ve also got nearly 100 comments, so I didn’t just “come into a cowboys blog”, whatever that means.
by Brendan Scolari on Apr 30, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Your also a member of 31 other blogs
And 11 Football blogs and your most commented is a 49er blog so dont sit there and try and make me feel stupid and justify yourself for being a troll. All that tells me is you like attention because you posted this on a story and nobody cared so you have to post it on a fanshot even though it should of been in a fanpost, because its a disscussion about the cowboys.
I thank God everyday i wasnt born a Eagles fan!!!!!!
Yes my most commented is a 49er blog
But I’m not sure why that matters, it’s not like I haven’t been reading this blog for quite some time. Furthermore, I don’t think there’s a rule that you have to be a Cowboy fan to post here.
I posted it on a fanshot because I saw this logic used multiple times throughout the blog and I thought that would be the only way to get my viewpoint seen by the majority of people. I didn’t put it in a fanpost because fanposts are supposed to be for longer discussions and I just wanted to write a short paragraph. I think I made a logical arguement, so being critical should not get someone branded a troll as long as they have fair and reasoned viewpoints and are not trying to just cause trouble.
by Brendan Scolari on Apr 30, 2009 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Your acting like i did something wrong
You talk down to me, and wonder why i was being rude, sorry if i come off as a asshole but i wrote that it was like being the 16th overall pick and you wont accept that. No player we could of found in the draft would be as good as Roy after the 17th pick. Crabtree might be better after everything is all said and done but Roy will have the better year this year. And with the Uncapped year coming up im sure Jerry wont have a problem cutting Roy if he tanks this year.
I thank God everyday i wasnt born a Eagles fan!!!!!!
Well
I do think you were being rude, and you called me a troll, which i don’t understand. I’m just trying to make a point, I definitely don’t hate the Cowboys or have anything against anyone here, quite the contrary actually. I talked down to you because I felt you weren’t giving me very much respect, saying I think people should bow down to my post and all that. It seems our previous conversation got deleted so I can’t tell you what else you said, but I don’t think you were being fair at all.
“No player we could of found in the draft would be as good as Roy after the 17th pick.”
I totally agree with this statement. However, like I said, there is more to it than that. Roy got paid a lot more than any of the rookie receivers will be, so he has to perform more because the money saved by picking a rookie receiver instead of having Roy could be used to bring in more talent. Also, lets not forget the 3rd round pick, that’s nothing to sneeze at either. I just think it’s wrong when people claim Roy Williams was the ’Boys first round pick (and consequently that this justifies the trade), because he cost a lot more than just a first rounder.
Hoepfully that explains my point better.
by Brendan Scolari on Apr 30, 2009 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions
This is why they leave the trading for people with there own NFL teams....
I thank God everyday i wasnt born a Eagles fan!!!!!!
Good post
Keep the pics, sign RW or Housh as a FA. Or keep TO.
by I_miss_Switzer on Apr 30, 2009 11:53 AM CDT reply actions
your logic is flawed because you're assuming
that the Cowboys would have used the extra cap space to sign another FA, which isn’t necessarily true and in all probability wouldn’t have happened any way since the Cowboys are trying to save as much cap space as possible for Ware’s extension which is imminent.
In Romo we Trust
But they already used the cap space on Roy's contract
Which shows that they are willing to use the extra space. You’re right that they would not have had to sign a FA with the money, but if they felt it was neccesary they could have. Basically, they could have had the 1st rounder and still signed a good veteran WR instead of having Roy.
I respect that you are making logical arguements instead of attacking me though.
by Brendan Scolari on Apr 30, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Its all coulda, mighta stuff
the bottom line is the Cowboys traded for RW for a first rd pick, so essentially they are saying we believe RW is better than any WR we could have taken in this years draft, and I bet they are right.
In Romo we Trust
No
They didn’t just trade him for a first round pick, is what I’m trying to say. They also signed him to a huge contract, which is money they could have spent elsewhere.
It’s the same reason the Redskins probably couldn’t trade Haynesworth for a first round pick now. Obviously, he will be better than almost all first rounders, but when you consider how much money he is being paid (fair market value) compared to the 20th overall pick (for example) it would not be worth trading for him.
I don’t think you’ll find many people who disagree with the notion that Roy is better than most of the first rounder receivers, but the discussion is not as simple as that.
by Brendan Scolari on Apr 30, 2009 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions
If they are trying to save cap space
why did they cut TO after throwing huge bucks at Williams when he wasn’t even a FA?
If they are tyring to save cap space, they wouldn’t trade picks for Williams.
by I_miss_Switzer on Apr 30, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You'll never get in a traffic jam,while going the extra mile. -Roger staubach
Actually your argument is not valid…
The money part is tricky…
For 1 – TO got cut because of Roy being here…TO was almost 9mil per year. It saves us in actual money spent and costs us in cap dollars.
2 – Roy actually costs less b/c a bunch of his bonus was accelerated into last seasons cap which has come and gone.
3 – Who do you think we would have drafted that will put up 70 catches, 1000yds and 7 scores? I can name literally 3 WR’s in the last 5 drafts that have done that vs the 100 that haven’t.
Roy Williams trade is yet to be determined…if he has a solid season, then you are dead wrong and if he has a bad season, god help us all.
Beyond all of that, if the Roy trade does not happen, that means TO is still here and the circus will have not yet left town….dunno about you, but I am done with the clowns and magic tricks.
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