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To anybody who doubts number 9

Ok so im one of "those" people. The one's who will consintley defend Tony Romo no matter how wrong it is. Its not because i have a man crush nor is it because of anything to do with him as a human, its because he is one of the best QB's in the NFL. With only 39 starts under his belt i think its safe to say that he should now be ready to evolve into one of the best QB's Dallas has ever seen. But what if he doesnt and his trend of December woes continue? Well heres a list of all the QB's in the NFC East along with one of the best QB's to play the game and there first 39 starts and prove why we still have alot to look forward to as long as Number 9 is behind the center.

Donavan Mcnabb

Mcnabb_medium

via orrfootball.files.wordpress.com

 

39 games

24-15 Overall record

7727 Total Passing Yards

33 td's

34 int 

54.8 % comp

Playoff Wins 1-1

 

Eli Manning

Eli-manning3_medium

via aheadinthecount.files.wordpress.com

 

20-19 Overall Record

8049 Total Passing Yards

54 td's

39 Int

52.9% comp

Playoff Wins 0-2

 

Jason Campbell

Jason-campbell_medium

via thestartingfive.files.wordpress.com

 

 36 Starts

16-20 Overall Record

7242 Total Passing Yards

35 td's

23 int

59.7% comp

Playoff Wins 0-0

 

Peyton Manning

Peyton2_medium

via images.smarter.com

 

21-18 Overall record

10024 Total Passing Yards

67 td's

50 int

59.9% comp

Playoff Wins 0-1

 

Tony Romo

  Tonyromo_medium

via i19.photobucket.com

 

27-12 Overall Record

10562 Total Passing Yards

81 td's

46 ints

63.6% comp

Playoff Wins 0-2

 

As you can see the stats speak for themselves. Romo leads in yards, WINS, and completions*. The only one stat that hes behind in is that one playoff win by Mcnabb. Tony Romo is a player and all the people who think otherwise need to look at the stats and see he is still young and developing into a top tier QB. Two of those quarterbacks have rings, Lets make it 3 this year, and get that monkey off our back.

 

 

 

 

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Im a Romo fan aswell

but these comparisons are a little unfair. Romo was surrounded by more talent than any of those guys (Im not sure aabout McNabb). And unlike someone such as Manning, he didnt have to start as a rookie. Not saying Romo wont be a great qb, but it isnt as though all these guys came into the same situation. In my opinion, a current qb whose situation most mirrored Romo is that of Brady. He qas a late draft pick who came in midway through a season to start on a talented team. That to me would be the best possible comparrison, however I dont know where to get those stats from.

by aussie_cowboy on May 21, 2009 5:31 AM CDT reply actions  

When Romo can in the Carolina game in 2006

You really think we had more talent than other teams? we were mediocre at best.. We had a bad offense and a allright run game.

by regaberto on May 21, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

I hate these types of posts.

Not the post itself, just the fact that this is going to heat up into a Terry vs. the world board quickly.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by AirforceBat on May 21, 2009 7:59 AM CDT reply actions  

what are you talking about??

This was a great post, the numbers speak for themselves, nobody can deny that.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 21, 2009 8:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wasn't about the post.

Soon, someone will come in and disagree and then so on and so on. Some one will talk about playoff wins or something about desire and probably most of it won’t make much sense, but it’ll happen. Happens all the time.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by AirforceBat on May 21, 2009 8:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

LOL

…still laughing.

Hooah.

by .FRoST.USAF on May 21, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

The only thing that is a little unfair about it...

Is Romo had more time to learn the game then all of these QBs… but everyone except Campbell was a first rounder

"We play to win the game" - Herm Edwards

by nicholas.rodriguez on May 21, 2009 8:18 AM CDT reply actions  

not really

Romo’s early years of sitting consisted of learning the conditioning and mechanical aspects of throwing that had to be re-learned because he was coming form a Div-1AA school.

Manning brothers and McNabb learned all that in Div-1A school that had better coaches, teachers and conditioning coaches.

In reality, learning how to play QB in the NFL occurs on the field, not on the sidelines.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 21, 2009 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

And so it begins...

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by AirforceBat on May 21, 2009 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

LOL

sorry couldn’t help myself after seeing that comment

by DCowboy on May 21, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Where do you get this stuff. Do you make it up as you go.

You learn a hell of a lot in practice and running through your progressions time after time. Those great coaches in Div 1A have to work their way up from somewhere and they have a lot of great coaches at smaller schools.

Mannings have been training to be QBs since the womb. McNabb started 4 years in college so had a ton of reps but he survived early in his career because he was a great athlete. He wasnt even a good QB early in his career.

Aikman learning on the fly as a young guy playing got up to speed quicker but took 2-3 years off of his career with the beatings he took.

Romo took time to start not because he was so far behind(he was a little but I believe played in a nontradition pro style offense)but because of his gunslinger mentality, BP was slow to trust him. Based on some of his decisions last year, BPs feelings have some merit.

The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

by squidlo97 on May 21, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not so sure

Not so sure that it was “because of his gunslinger mentality, BP was slow to trust him”. I do remember that after Romo began playing QB, several times Parcells talked about having to coach Romo the entire game & having to keep a close eye on his play because he didn’t want Romo turning the ball over. However, before Romo became the starter & right afterwords, what I remember Parcells talking about was that he didn’t want to play Romo until he thought Romo was totally ready. I can’t remember the exact words Parcells used but what I remember it meaning was that he did not want to start Romo until he was ready because he was afraid that Romo would never develop if fed to the wolves too early.

by geth13 on May 21, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I had heard that as well. For all of this throw out there and let them

learn on the job. That has screwed up way more gys than it helped. You wont hear about it much that way because that means the GM and HC screwed up royally and they would rather blame the young QB than admit they were wrong. I kinda like the approach Fisher took( I think it was Fisher) with Steve Mcnair where the 1st year you give them a series or 2 a game with a very practiced short list of plays and get their feet wet slowly. As they progress increase work load.

The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

by squidlo97 on May 21, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

But I also heard that Romo would get a little loose with the ball in practice and didnt trust him all the way.

The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

by squidlo97 on May 21, 2009 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

There’s a very flawed aspect of this argument…

he is still young and developing into a top tier QB

Disagree. He’s not THAT young. He’s 29, and should be in the prime of his career RIGHT NOW.

On the one hand, when you look at those statistical comparisons, they look rather impressive, and I don’t want to take that away from him. However, Campbell, McNabb, and the Mannings were all either starting in their rookie or second year in the league. Romo had the luxury of learning the NFL for 3-4 years and didn’t get his feet wet until he was 26. If one were to do side-by-side comparisons of what each of these guys have accomplished by their 29th birthday, it’s not going to look as impressive.

Personally, I think Romo can play. He’s not quite there with Big Manning or McNabb, but I’d take him in a heartbeat over Little Manning or Campbell. That said, until he wins a playoff game (and he’s been surrounded with plenty of talent in his 3 years at the helm), he’s a 2nd rate QB. He’s entering this season with the least talented Cowboys team surrounding him since he became the starter in ’06. This year could be make or break for 9.

by JimmyK on May 21, 2009 9:58 AM CDT reply actions  

Great Post and it is relevant

Well done, regaberto, however I could have done without those huge pictures of our rivals. And the stats might have been more meaningful bunched together.

I do believe this analysis is relevant. True, all of these guys had different levels of talent to work with, some sat on the bench for a while, etc. But their levels of play can be analyzed. Someone mentioned Peyton had to play from the start, but I believe his experience playing in big games and in a pro style offense at Tennessee is better experience than Romo playing in D-II and sitting and watching the game. And the 2004 Giant team Eli inherited was a 5-4 team when he got them. They had talent. Tiki was a Pro Bowler that year and had over 2000 yards from scrimmage. Toomer, Hilliard and Shockey are a strong receiving trio. Eli took over and they finished the season 1-6.

I’ve taken the liberty to add Brady’s number to this analysis. Romo holds his own against Brady as well, with the obvius exception of playoff victories. Let me know if anyone else needs to be included, as I can add them as well if I have time.

McNabb 39 G – 24 Wins – 7727 Yds – 33 TD – 34 INT – 0.97 TD/INT – 54.4% – 1-1 Playoffs
E Manning 39 G – 20 Wins – 8049 Yds – 54 TD – 39 INT – 1.38 TD/INT – 52.9% – 0-2 Playoffs
Campbell 36* G – 16 Wins – 7242 Yds – 35 TD – 23 INT - 1.52 TD/INT – 59.7% – 0-0 Playoffs
Peyton 39 G – 21 Wins – 10024 Yds – 67 TD – 50 INT – 1.34 TD/INT – 59.9% – 0-1 Playoffs
T Brady 39 G – 27 Wins - 8632 Yds – 57 TD – 34 INT – 1.68 TD/INT – 62.3% – 3-0 Playoffs
T Romo 39 G – 27 Wins - 10562 Yds - 81 TD - 46 INT – 1.76 TD/INT - 63.6% – 0-2 Playoffs

by TCBinNYC on May 21, 2009 10:07 AM CDT reply actions  

Brady also played on some great teams

I think that had a lot to do with his “knowing how to win in the playoffs”.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 21, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Brady didn't have a really good receiving corp until '07

and he still won multiple Super Bowls. You can’t discount any of Brady’s achievements because he happened to play on “some great teams”…could it possibly be that Brady happened to elevate those SB teams to greatness? Bledsoe sure as hell wasn’t going to do it…

Epic Fail since 1985

by the red scare on May 22, 2009 2:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

I disagree

His receiving corp was better than you think back then. Deion Branch, David Patten, Troy Brown and David Givens were all solid, dependable receivers who ran good routes, got open and made plays.

They weren’t pro bowlers, but they were efficient.

Brady all by himself didn’t make that team great, it had many really good players and don’t be so quick to dis Bledsoe as he lead that team to victory over the Steelers after Brady got hurt during the 2001 playoff run.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 22, 2009 7:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

Alot of them went to other teams and were productive. They werent bad at all and the Defense(Patriots) back then was stellar.

The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

by squidlo97 on May 22, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

how about

Carson Palmer, I don’t know his stats, but I just saw a post on Sporting news where they rank the top 20 QB’s and he is listed at #5 while Romo is #10. I don’t think he has any playoff wins either but yet all the media always lists him ahead of romo.

by DCowboy on May 21, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

thats because of his pedigree

First round picks, especially first overall picks, always get the benefit of the doubt over undrafted free agents, even though it’s wrong and unfair.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 21, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

For starters, he plays in Purgatory.

Besides that, he’s got a prototype build in addition to better pure arm strength than Romo.

by MadMick on May 21, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

George's 2000 playoff line........

The Vikings offense scored 64 points and George did this: 635 yards, 7 TD/1 INT in 2 games. But I guess it was his fault that the Rams scored 49 to their 37. How much of a martyr would you make Romo out to be if he authored that kind of playoff performance only to see the defense get torched?

by MadMick on May 21, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

are you saying George was a good qb?

He had all the tools but wasn’t a good qb because if he was, he would have went down as one of the best. Bottom line is he was a head case and a qb’s mental makeup is just as important as his physical tools.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 21, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but he wasn't a flat-out suckwad like Leaf either.

Nor is Palmer. Pulling crap like that out of your butt is being facetious. Plus, do you deny that it wasn’t George’s fault that his team lost a playoff game if he threw for 400-plus yards and 4 TD passes yet his defense gave up 49 points?

by MadMick on May 21, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I didn't say he was

but my point is there is a lot more to playing qb in the NFL than having prototype size and arm strength.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 21, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, duh.

The guy asked why Palmer is thought of so highly in the media when he hasn’t won anymore than Romo has. Also, Romo wouldn’t have won squat in Cincinatti either by now.

by MadMick on May 21, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

What are complicians? A new political party?

Did this comparison really need to be made again? You know most of those guys were thrown into the fire a lot earlier in their careers than Romo. Besides, you left off the guy whose sudden rise to fame most closely mirrored Romo’s; Kurt Warner.

by MadMick on May 21, 2009 12:10 PM CDT reply actions  

And......

If Warner’s career is any kind of barometer for Romo’s, Antonio will start a Super Bowl. The problem is it will be in 2014 for the Bangles.

by MadMick on May 21, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Romo is going into his 7th season.

I’m sorry, but I don’t buy that the fact he wasn’t good enough to get on the field for 3 1/2 years is a positive thing or an excuse for him. He is not a 4th year player, he is a 7th year player. Also, McNabb had 3 playoff wins by his 39th regular season start, not 1. Why don’t you show what each of these players had done by the end of their 6th season in the league?

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 12:47 PM CDT reply actions  

you don't learn the game or gain experience on the sidelines

you learn the game on the field. Romo might have been in the league 6 years, but he has only played in 39 games as a qb.

Every qb is different when they are ready to take the field and start, it has nothing to do with how good they are.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 21, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Is that a for real comment?

When a player starts has nothing to do with how good they are? Seriously? Romo has actually been at the QB position for his entire 6 year career, not just the games he started.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

C’mon, Baked Potato Soup!!! Romo was better than those other QB’s. Parcells just wanted to make it fair for the other team.

by JimmyK on May 21, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

thats not true

and yes when a player starts in his career has nothing to do with how good he is, Romo and Warner have proved that.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 21, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

You mean how good he becomes, not how good he is.

If he was good enough, he would have been starting. The fact is, Romo was not good enough to get on the field his first 3 years. That’s not the same as not being in the league.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

majority of rookie or 2nd yr qbs

aren’t good enough to play with an established veteran in front of them.

Brady wasn’t good enough to beat out Bledsoe either until Drew went down with an injury so i guess Brady wasn’t good enough either.

Bullcocky, he just didn’t get his opportunity. Has nothing to do with how good you are. Some coaches just trust veterans more, its as simple as that.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 21, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

If Romo wasnt a undrafted free agent and had to earn his starting job

Im sure it wouldnt of taken him 3 years to start. If he was just thrown in there whos to say that he wouldnt of had the same stats. All this post was about was showing his first 39 starts to our Divisions…… and one of the best in the NFL right now.

by regaberto on May 21, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're comparing apples to oranges.

You’re taking a guy with 6 years experience and taking his last 3 years and comparing it to other players’ first 3 or 4 years. Why not compare where they were at equal points in their career, not based on how many starts they had. Just because Romo wasn’t good enough to get on the field doesn’t mean that he wasn’t in the league.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, it is.

He was on the team. He played for the Dallas Cowboys. He may not have been good enough to play in any games, but he played.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

he didn't play

You show me any game film of Romo playing qb his first 3 years in the regular season and I’ll say you’re right.

Otherwise, you’re wrong. Standing on the sideline and holding a clipborad and throwing passes on the scout team is not playing, thats just a ridiculous statement.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 21, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

So he wasn't on the team?

Are you saying that 2006 was his rookie year? So Jason Garrett only played for 4 years, not 13?

And according to NFL.com, he had 2 carries in 2005, so there you go.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

funny

Being on the team isn’t playing, two totally things all together. You’re not going to win this argument.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 21, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

if by play you mean actually play qb

in a real game, and not stand on the sidelines, yes thats correct.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 21, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

So Garrett just lost 9 years experience.

By your definition. I’ll leave it at that, then. Romo’s rookie year was 2006 and he was out of football for 3 years prior to that. He is only a 3 year vet.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

regarding Garrett

He only played a few games if my memory serves me correct and he was on the team 13 years.

Again, played in a few games, was on the team 13 years. Big, huge difference.

Probably would have played more if not for the HOF qb ahead of him on the depth chart.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 21, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think

both arguments are misleading, you can’t really compare Romo to the other QB’s that started their rookie year, and also you can’t compare tha last 39 starts of those guys to Romo’s first 39. The fact that these QB’s started their rookie year is more on need and the fact that they were first round picks with a lot of money already in their pocket, when Romo signed as a UDFA we already had Carter which had just taken the Boys to the playoffs, then came Testaverde which of course had a lot more exp and could still play, after Vinny we had Bledsoe who just had a 4000 yds season in buffalo, so to knock on Romo being not good enough to start is IMO not a fair assesment. Furthermore the fact that those rookies started was because what they had in front of them really sucked.

by DCowboy on May 21, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

dare to guess how many points the eagles let up in those 3 games???

3, 9 and 19.

heres an idea: compare the players for their last 3 years. You’ll find that Romo still comes out on or near the top.

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

A “W” is a “W,” brother. And I guess we’re just ignoring the 21, 31, and 33 points they scored?

Nice try.

by JimmyK on May 21, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Okay, let's look at them:

3 of those 4 have multiple playoff wins and 2 have been Super Bowl MVP.

So, yes, Romo is better than Jason Campbell, I’ll give you that.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

and using your logic

Jim Plunkett was better than Dan Marino, Dan Fouts and Fran Tarkenton because he had better playoff success…rriigghhtt

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 21, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

So it's all about stats and wins don't count?

In the past 3 years, 2 of those 3 QBs have led their teams past the Cowboys when the Cowboys were in a lose and you’re out situation. 2 of them were named Super Bowl MVP. I like Romo a lot, too, but he has not been as successful as 3 of 4 of the QBs mentioned in the original post, unless you grade on a curve in his favor.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

qbs don't win or lose games, teams do

I feel qbs get too much credit for their team’s post season success and unfair criticism for their team’s post season failures.

It takes 45 players to win a games and championships, not one.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 21, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

and likewise in the giants game

Romo played well, which was offset by multiple screwups by crayton, jacque reeves and a dropped td by fasano.

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

thanks to

the multiple screw ups above mentioned

by DCowboy on May 21, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Of course.

It’s always everybody else on the team’s fault. The truth is the only reason that Romo has games with good QB ratings is because of Witten and Owens. That’s how it works, right?

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

not true at all

Romo deserves a heck of a lot of blame for play against the Eagles, Lions, Seahawks in 2006, Bills and Eagles in 2007, and Cards, Steelers, ravens and Eagles in 2008. He wasn’t the only player to F up for sure, and a few of those games he had positive moments too, but he didn’t play as well as he could’ve.

The Giants game is not hte same. The guy played damn well, showed fire, threw the ball very well that day, and his receivers let him down.

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Was that a question?

I didn’t realize that was what we were arguing. I thought it was that the rest of the team failed Romo and his Herculean 64.7 QB rating effort.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

BS

you’re now using stats so you can ingore actually thinking about how Romo played. There are 11 men on each side of the line of scrimmage. Romo can play great all day and have a zero qb rating if his players drop balls.

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Right.

So it’s always other player’s fault when he does poorly, then? I’m saying his individual effort wasn’t as great as you’re claiming. In fact, it was sub par.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

not at all

I’m using a specific example and you’re generalizing it. You are somehow completely missing hte point. You’re telling me it is not a wrs fault if a ball hits him square in the hands and he drops it? I’d like to hear your reasoning.

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

"I think that part of their problem...

was that there was no comfort level of when the ball was coming to them."

Hey, stuff happens. You’re telling me that Romo had zero poor throws, reads, or decisions in that game and the rest of the team caused him to have bad stats, correct? I don’t buy that.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

NOT AT ALL!!!

in fact i’ve said multiple times that the two major mistakes i think romo made were overthrowing TO on what would’ve been a td pass, and that second intentional grounding was a stupid play.

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

you are absolutely making excuses for the wrs here

do you not see this??? You whine and moan and complain about people making excuses for romo, but when another player Fs up, its still Romos fault!

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

so now you want to use stats

when it suits you. And so you’re saying when a team loses the qb is to blame, correct?

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 21, 2009 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

When have I eschewed the stats?

If the QB plays poorly, he has a large part of the blame when a team loses.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Romo's qb rating against GMen

Romo didn’t play poorly in that game considering the duress he was under.

His only pick was the desperation throw to TG on the last play of the game.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 21, 2009 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Given that we are talking about players from the same division in the same era,

I would say absolutely the measure is how far they were able to lead their teams. In the past 3 years, 3 of those quarterbacks have taken their teams farther than Romo has in the same 3 year period.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

What about a player like drew brees then?

is he worse than eli, mcnabb, etc? I know this is an exaggeration, because brees is in my mind better than romo, but the idea is still the same – why is romo being punished for poor defensive and oline player and key moments in games?

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

What about him?

I would consider Brees and Romo pretty similar, actually.

How is Romo being punished? I don’t even understand what that means.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

You said Eli is a better qb

why not take into account that his supporting cast played fantastic ball and he was aided by a defense and run game that were great and very good, respectively.

So you’re saying Eli is better than Brees?

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

What has Brees done that makes him so great?

He put up monster stats in a pass happy offense but had critical turnovers in key situations.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

like I said earlier

you have to feel Jim Plunkett is better than Marino and Fouts and obviously you would be the only one that has that opinion.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 21, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're talking about guys who are retired vs. still playing.

We are able to evaluate Fouts, Marino, and Plunkett’s entire body of work, compared to the 5 QBs mentioned above. Let’s focus on the players that I am actually talking about instead of trying to introduce guys from different eras.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

whats the difference

between comparing the careers of retired players and the current careers of current players when you’re using the same criteria?

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 21, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Because we aren't using the same criteria?

We’re using a 3 year window compared to entire careers.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

while i agree he has had some turnover issues

Eli manning hasn’t been much better turnoverwise, and hes been paired with a great run game.

Think about it this way: would Eli be able to succeed at all in a pass happy offense? I seriously doubt it. Thats the difference (imo) between Romo, brees and a guy like eli. The saints and Cowboys NEED their qb to win them games. The pressure is absolutely on those two. The The Giants really don’t need eli to do as much, and he doesn’t do much.

BTW, i’m nmot saying eli is a bad qb. I think hes in the top third in the league or so. But he doesn’t see anything near the pressure that romo does

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pressure in what sense?

The NY media is even more brutal than being the Cowboys QB, so I don’t buy that argument. Sometimes you need your QB to not lose games, too.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

pressure in terms of what he has to do for his team to win

i think romo and eli receive about equal pressure from the media. maybe romo a tad moreso since we had TO and ESPN follows him where he goes

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

but again

in our 2 playoff games, Romo has had to WIN THEM. Eli had to win exactly 2 of his, and the packers game though he played well, he couldn’t get them over the hump till that awful favre turnover.

Eli has had exactly one clutch playoff drive in his career. And that was aided by a heckuva lucky pass to tyree. And that was AFTER samuel dropped an INT. Does this one single drive make Eli better?

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

It doesn't make him worse.

I like Romo, too, but I can’t say he is clearly better than either Manning or McNabb simply because he had more regular season wins the past 3 years compared to their first 3.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

well i'd agree with you there

the reason i think romo is better has nothing to do with Ws, its that our ability to win games directly depends on how well he plays and he comes through. Our success is based off of our passing offense (or was for 2007 and the first half of 2008). The giants rely on their run game and defense to win games. The giants have won many games over the years where hes played liek outright trash. We can’t get away with that with Romo (generally…there have been 2 or 3 exceptions)

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

didn't mean to end that post

a win is a TEAM accomplishment. But it doesn’t take stats to see how these players are progressing. Right now, would you really take Eli over Romo? cause thats what your logic dictates. How many times have we seen Romo make something out of nothing? how many times have we seen Eli do that? Meanwhile, its not like Eli is free from turnover problems either – they often come about in big games too. As fo now, there is NOTHING to suggest his 4 game playoff stretch was anything more than a lucky hot streak.

Eli’s best asset is his freakin play-action ability. Which would never work with us cause our run game doesn’t gain more than 2-3 yards on 1st down.

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

At least once.

Eli sure made something out of nothing on that pass to Tyree in the Super Bowl. You know, when he was the MVP?

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Of course.....

Eli’s ‘07 December was a thousand times more horrible than Romo’s December last year. If it would’ve fell on Eli’s shoulders, the Giants wouldn’t even have gotten into the playoffs.

by MadMick on May 21, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

the city of NY

was calling for his head at that point.

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sure. Do you understand mine?

I love Romo, too. But I am not so blindly in love with the guy that I can’t see that he has not stepped up and delivered in the playoffs when he has had the opportunity. In both games, Romo had the ball in his hand at the end of the game and did not deliver. To suggest that he is better than QBs who have accomplished more simply because he has more regular season wins and better stats is not a sound argument, in my opinion.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think the pass to Crayton was pretty clutch

that Crayton stopped running the route. He runs through the route, Cowboys win and you’re argument against Romo in this regard has no merit.

See what I mean about it being a team game.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 21, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

There were 100 yards and 2 tds of dropped balls/stopped routes left on the field that day. I thought Romo took some licks in the fourth, got back up, and fought admirably throughout the game. Under any normal circumstances we win that game.

The only mistakes i think Romo made all freakin game were overthrowing TO and that second intentional grounding.

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

so eli manning gets credit

for lofting up a lame duck that over 50% of the time is intercepted to tyree, while romo doesn’t get credit for throwing a perfect td pass to fasano, a perfect pass on the run after escaping pressure to crayton, and a pass that if crayton hadn’t stopped running, would’ve been a game winning td??

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

a qb does not win games by himself.

SOMEBODY has to catch the ball. SOMEBODY has to block. Somebody has to cover and not give up a td at the end of the first half that killed momentum after a flat out dominant drive.

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

doesn't matter

winning or losing isn’t 100% determined by whether a qb delivers in the clutch, the entire team has to deliver in the clutch, just not the qb.

The OL has to block and the receivers have to get open and catch the ball.

It’s like a machine, all the parts have to work for it to run, not just the most important part.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 21, 2009 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

the same logic goes....

add two tds, 100 yards and take away that INt that wouldn’t have happened had we had the lead, and i’m sure romo has like a 120+ rating.

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, I can make up some stats, too.

Add 3 more interceptions and 5 more incompletions and where would it be?

I’m not talking about what could have possibly happened if only…, I’m talking about what actually happened.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

the difference is

Romo didn’t throw 3 near interceptions!!!! you’re just making crap up, i’m using in game examples where our PROFESSIONAL wrs dropped balls that hit them either square in the hands, square in the chest, or would’ve been perfect throws had the receivers not stopped their routes.

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's my point, though.

A lot of things happen over the course of a game that could happen differently. We can speculate all that we want, but all that we have as fact is what actually happened. And what actually happened is Romo had poor stats, and the team lost. You can blame whomever else you want, but Romo is as responsible as any other player on the field that day, if not more, as the QB is indisputably the most important player on the team.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

im sick of arguing this

That is my freakin point. That many things can happen that will impact stats, so you evaluate a players play by looking at the tape. Romo had 2-3 bad plays that entire game. He consistently put the ball on the money just as he did in the regular season. The difference between the playoff game and the regular season was our receivers caught EVERYTHING against the giants in the regular season, and dropped 100 yards and 2 tds worth of balls in the post season. Likewise, the giants, the #1 team in drops in 2007, didn’t drop a ball against us in the playoff game.

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

to suggest that eli mannningis a better qb

because of one single freakin drive against the pats is ridiculous.

The Giants had a total of 50 or so yards in the fourth against us. How is that clutch?

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

You asked for that example.

The guy came through with a game winning drive in the SB against the only team to ever go 16-0 in the regular season. That’s clutch.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

16-0 is irrelevant

the pats did it on the back of their offense, which the giants D shut down. Their defense was never anything to special.

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

in fact

while watching that game i remember thinking that if eli was playign better, it never would’ve been close

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

I see.

So, even though he was the MVP, they won in spite of him.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

seriously?

 The reason they even COULD give it to eli was because the giants shut the pats down. But they couldn’t give it to the entire giants dline, and it would be silly to single out one. This isn’t something i’m making up either, you see this all the time.

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

so using your logic

the perfromance by the qbs receiver at the end of the game determines whether the qb is clutch or not….makes no sense to me.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 21, 2009 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don’t know what logic you’re attributing to me, but it has nothing to do with anything I said. Clutch QBs find a way to win when they have the ball with the game on the line.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

yes it does

You said Eli was clutch because Tyree made a circus catch but that Romo wasn’t because Crayton didn’t run through his route.

That makes the WR determinative of whether the qb is clutch.

QBs can’t win games by themselves, thats something you’re obviously having a tough time understanding.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 21, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

He asked for that example.

He said to tell him when Eli made something out of nothing so I picked the most famous time. Prior to that catch, Eli scrambled out of crazy pressure to throw that ball. And he even did it without fumbling.

Just because I don’t agree that Romo is as good as you doesn’t mean that I don’t understand how football works. The fact that you don’t get how important solid, reliable QB play is to winning suggests that you are the one that doesn’t understand the game beyond blindly cheering for players.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

oh I understand that better than you think

and I also understand qbs play with 10 other players and not in a vacuum.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 21, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just as a reminder

On that clutch drive against the Pats Eli threw a pick directly into Asante Samuels chest. Samuel dropped the game clinching interception.

The difference between winning and losing in the post-season is razor thin. Eli could easily have been the goat instead of the hero.

by DoomsdayD75 on May 22, 2009 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

If Romo ever wins in the playoffs, I'll concede the point.

Until then, it’s all conjecture and woulda, coulda, shoulda. I’m so tired of hearing excuses for Romo. This is the exact same arguments everyone was making last off season, and sure enough, the guy didn’t deliver in December again. We can argue until we’re blue in the fingers, but the fact is, he has not gotten it done, and 3 of the 4 QBs above have. I don’t like it either, but that’s how it is. Make whatever excuses you want for him.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 2:32 PM CDT reply actions  

i absolutely had a problem with romo's play last december

coming off of injury, he wasn’t the same quicker trigger, accurate in the short-medium range qb that we’ve seen. Heck he wasn’t that good with the deep ball either.

But for the 30whatever games before that, I thought Romo played great ball for us, aside from like 5 games – the Saints, Eagles, Seahawks, Bills and Cardinals games. I’ll take a qb whose play I’m pleased with 83% of the time lol. Thats something Giants, Redskins, and Eagles fans can only dream of at this point in their qbs careers.

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

For what it's worth ...

I added Carson Palmer, Drew Brees, and our new 39-game champion Kurt Warner:

McNabb 39 G – 24 Wins – 7727 Yds – 33 TD – 34 INT – 0.97 TD/INT – 54.4% – 1-1 Playoffs
E Manning 39 G – 20 Wins – 8049 Yds – 54 TD – 39 INT – 1.38 TD/INT – 52.9% – 0-2 Playoffs
Campbell 36* G – 16 Wins – 7242 Yds – 35 TD – 23 INT - 1.52 TD/INT – 59.7% – 0-0 Playoffs
Peyton 39 G – 21 Wins – 10024 Yds – 67 TD – 50 INT – 1.34 TD/INT – 59.9% – 0-1 Playoffs
T Brady 39 G – 27 Wins – 8632 Yds – 57 TD – 34 INT – 1.68 TD/INT – 62.3% – 3-0 Playoffs
T Romo 39 G – 27 Wins – 10562 Yds – 81 TD – 46 INT – 1.76 TD/INT – 63.6% – 0-2 Playoffs
Palmer 39 G – 22 Wins – 9326 Yds – 68 TD – 37 INT – 1.84 TD/INT - 64.2% – 0-1 Playoffs
D Brees 39 G – 19 Wins – 7956 Yds – 48 TD – 35 INT – 1.37 TD/INT – 61.0% – 0-0 Playoffs
K Warner 39 G – 31 Wins - 11418 Yds - 86 TD - 47 INT – 1.83 TD/INT – 66.2% – 3-1 Playoffs

by TCBinNYC on May 21, 2009 2:42 PM CDT reply actions  

He was 3-2 actaully

His first 39 starts cover the ’99 – ’01 seasons. No playoffs in ’99. 1-1 after the 2000 season and 2-1 after teh 2001 season. Good catch. Can I edit a post?

by TCBinNYC on May 21, 2009 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dude if your gonna question somebodys stats at least know what your talking about..

In 1999 he started 6 games………………………………..6 and no playoffs
In 2000 he started 16 games………………………………16 and lost in the playoffs 20-10 to NYG
In 2001 he started 16 games……………………………….16 and won in the playoffs 21-3 to Tampa

Thats 38 games plus the titans game in 2002 equals 39 So please tell me how he was 3-1 in the playoffs Id love to hear it…..

by regaberto on May 21, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well...

Obviously if he won one playoff game in 2001, he played in another one, correct? But both games you mentioned happened after the 2000 season, so that was 1-1. Then after the 2001 season, the Eagles went to the NFC Championship game and lost to the Rams, so that’s another 2-1. So, 3-2.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

GRRRRRRR I called it!

I called it. I knew that this thread would turn into this.

Now you have two sides that are going to go on in circles about Romo.

Neither one is absolutely right.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by AirforceBat on May 21, 2009 2:57 PM CDT reply actions  

yea

but you’ve gotta expect it. In fact, these kinds of threads may even be helpful cause they (ideally) would keep this argument out of other threads.

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Seriously, what's the problem with this?

We are having our fun on the board just like anyone else. No one dictates that you have to read every post or any of the posts. I just enjoy pushing the Romo lover’s buttons more than I enjoy working. It’s a thread about Romo, so it seems like the appropriate place to debate Romo.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 21, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not mad.

Sorry if I insinuated that.

I just find it funny that this topic can start a thread this long with a series of the same thing, rinse, wash and repeat.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by AirforceBat on May 22, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

the arguing is not the problem

the problem is everyones had this same argument before multiple times. I can’t wait for the season to start.

by foyesboys on May 21, 2009 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Over 140 posts...

…how many from Terry? lol… not hatin’ dude.. wonderin’…

Hooah.

by .FRoST.USAF on May 21, 2009 3:05 PM CDT reply actions  

Airforce bat nailed it in comment number 4.

The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

by squidlo97 on May 21, 2009 3:10 PM CDT reply actions  

LOL! so very true.

The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

by squidlo97 on May 21, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

What...

..if u live in Alaska? :)

Hooah.

by .FRoST.USAF on May 22, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

said with a Monty Python accent...

What! … is your favorite color?

Green, no, Blue …. aaaaahhhhhhhh ….. (no, rose-colored!)

Tar Heels = National Champs in Basketball ... #1 in Baseball ... Top 10 this year in Football?

by DalaiLuke on May 24, 2009 6:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes....

I’m a master at stating the obvious.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by AirforceBat on May 22, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

although these numbers seem impressive...

These stats don’t factor in a considerable amount of external variables that are/was in effect.
You have to consider the condition of the teams that they played for and how that affects these numbers.
1) You think having TO might have something to do with Romo’s spark?
2) What about Payton Manning’s o-lines those early years? McNabb’s? Could they have hurt their numbers?

I think a more even comparison would be towards Cambell and Eli. Since they seem to come from teams that have some things in place like Dallas. So yes, Romo – in my opionon – seems to be better than those two.

Although I like the numbers you did post – and Romo looks great – it is an inaccurate measure of how someone will do as a QB.

Numbers don’t predict bonehead mistakes. They only reflect them.
Unfortunately, games aren’t won in hindsight.

by rotovibe on May 21, 2009 5:50 PM CDT reply actions  

Hee Hee

Game!!!! Baked Potato Soup:-)

by rangerider on May 21, 2009 8:20 PM CDT reply actions  

Always love a good Romo debate!

Good post dude! I’m considered a Romosexual so I won’t get into my opinions about Romo. The Cowboys need to play better and so does Romo! End of Story!

by Boyz4Life on May 22, 2009 12:32 AM CDT reply actions  

Don't worry about it y'all

For as great as Eli and McNabb have been, their fans still wanted them kicked off the team. In 2007 all of New York had given up on Eli. Even last year, fans in Philly were calling for McNabbs head. So don’t listen to these clowns.

Fans are fickle, one minute Romo sucks, then next he is a great QB. The last memory we have of him was dreadful, so that is the memory that will stick out. Once the season starts and Romo is throwing 3 TD’s a game everyone will be back on the bandwagon.

Obviously he needs to perform in December and in the playoffs, but so does the rest of our team. Luckily he still has room for improvement, and that will come with more experience. Be patient guys. Romo plays in the toughest division in football and has done a remarkable job in his few short years starting.

The fact that we are competitive at all is due in large part to Romo. Just be glad we have a quality starting QB, and stop acting like these fair weather Giants and Eagles fans.

by DoomsdayD75 on May 22, 2009 10:28 AM CDT reply actions  

+1

Hear! HEAR!!!

I was in NYCity in November / December 2007, and sports-radio was FULL of Eli-haters… from the on-air personalities to the fans calling for his head. And not only Eli, but the defense too. Strahan caught a TON of crap that year. I couldn’t help thinking that city didn’t deserve that championship.

As for Terry, he gets teased (by me too) about being a Romo-sexual … but the truth is he’s closer to reality than all the pessimists on this board … the Cowboys have themselves an exciting, productive, quality guy behind center. Does he make too many mistakes? I think the range of replies would be anywhere from “ABSOLUTELY … to … probably” … so we all can agree there’s room for improvement… EVEN TERRY WILL AGREE!

But the bottom line is we as Cowboy fans should be psyched to have Romo as our man.

Tar Heels = National Champs in Basketball ... #1 in Baseball ... Top 10 this year in Football?

by DalaiLuke on May 24, 2009 6:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, not agreeing with you makes me a fair weather fan.

Obviously since I don’t blindly agree that thus far Romo has shown he will be better than Peyton Manning or Donovan McNabb, I’m a bandwagon jumper.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 22, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

I enjoy your posts.

I don’t always agree with your posts, but I think that you aren’t just “hating”. I think that you make valid points and that you want the team to suceed.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by AirforceBat on May 22, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks.

Just to be clear, I really, really, really want for Romo to be the greatest Cowboys QB of all time, at least until he retires and someone else takes over. I just try to keep things in perspective also. I said it last year and the year before, as soon as Romo proves me wrong, I will be among the first and most vocal to sing his praises. Same with Roy Williams and any other Cowboy that hasn’t quite lived up to expectations yet.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 22, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I got ya.

I understand that. I don’t think you’re pessimistic, I think that you are just hesitant.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by AirforceBat on May 22, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

well now you are putting words in my mouth

I didn’t say Romo was better than Peyton Manning. It’s not fair to compare him to guys that have 5+ more years of playing experience. Hell, even when you do Romo stacks up pretty damn well.

But if you used to think Romo was awesome, and now you don’t based on what we have all seen, then yes, you are indeed a bandwagon jumper. If you have always doubted Romo, then no, you are not a bandwagon jumper. See how that works?

by DoomsdayD75 on May 22, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, considering that Terry and I had this same argument last year,

I guess by your definition I am not a bandwagon jumper. Of course, maybe I am, since going into the playoffs against the Giants, I thought he had turned the corner. Given that Romo’s play declined over the last month of the most recent season, and that has become a disturbing trend for him, it actually makes more sense that people who used to and possibly still think he is awesome would realistically have some doubts about him now.

I think Romo’s very good and have never said that he sucks, except maybe in frustration, much like one says “I could kill that guy.” But it’s offensive to me when other people take it upon themselves to judge who is a “real” fan or not based on whether that person has the same perspective as them.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 22, 2009 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I made a comparison

and it is clearly a valid one. I just don’t like it when people take what we have for granted. We should all be thankful we have someone as talented as Romo.

by DoomsdayD75 on May 22, 2009 3:14 PM CDT reply actions  

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