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The Valley Ranch Review: Greg Ellis on the Move?

A Greg Ellis trade may be in the works, says Fanhouse's Calvin Watkins. Watkins, earlier this month, had a source tell him that the Jets were interested in Pacman Jones. This time he has multiple sources, suggesting that Anthony Spencer could soon be clear to start opposite OLB Demarcus Ware.

Dallas is serious about a potential move because on Thursday, the final day of this week's organized team activities, the team sent Ellis home, not allowing him to practice. The Cowboys did this last year during some OTAs, and coach Wade Phillips said then it was to not wear Ellis down. He turns 34 in August.

This week the team held a team meeting with several of its veterans including Tony Romo, Jason Witten, DeMarcus Ware and Marcus Spears. Ellis, who is tied with left tackle Flozell Adams with the longest tenure on the team, was not invited to the meeting by the coaches. Ellis took that as a sign he might not be wanted.

[snip]

The Cowboys have targeted New England and Cincinnati as potential teams for Ellis. The Patriots have been interested in an outside pass rusher and were in the market for Jason Taylor, who has now signed with Miami. But the Pats have no interest in Ellis, according to one of the sources.

Bengals defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer was Ellis' coach in Dallas from 1999 to 2006 and there is a comfort level there between them.

Hat tip to cowboy78 for the Fanshot.

Todd Archer also wonders about Ellis' future with the team.

The Cowboys would free up more than $5 million in salary cap room in 2009 with a trade. If they cut Ellis, they would save $4.15 million because he has a $1.5 million guarantee that was added to his contract in 2007.

"He's looking forward to being a Dallas Cowboy," Ellis' agent, James Williams, said. "Now, if that's going to happen, we don't know. That's not in our control."

Williams said he has not asked for or been told by the Cowboys that he could seek a trade partner.

More VRR after the jump.

Star-divide

Igor Olshansky hit TheSportingNews' Top20 for the league's best defensive ends by bench pressing his way up to an overall ranking of 11.

11. Igor Olshansky, Cowboys. His move to Dallas reunites him with Wade Phillips, the defensive coordinator during Olshansky's first three years with the Chargers. He knows the 3-4 well, has great strength and has learned to use his hands well and play with leverage.

Former Cowboy end Chris Canty wasn't on the list, but perhaps will be included in TSN's defensive tackle rankings, seeing that the Giants' website lists him as a "DT".

Cowboys fans aren't the only fans who think their team will be linked to the name, Michael Vick. A bunch of other SBNation pro football sites have the same anxiety, e.g. Cincy Jungle and Pats Pulpit.

Besides, Jerry Jones backs his guy.

"(Tony) Romo is our guy," said Jones, who was in Arlington Thursday for the unveiling of a video board in the new Cowboys Stadium.

Here are some vids of the new stadium's super large videoboard, rollin' and ready for action. Can Marion Barber look any bigger?

Thanks for your leadership and pinch-safety hitting. Keith Davis will now play in the Bay Area with the silver and black. The former Cowboys safety and special teams dynamo signed with the Oakland Raiders.

 

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That is the most beautiful screen ever

Glad to hear Igor getting some love too….
About Ellis….. I guess Wade is pretty confident about the rookies

"We play to win the game" - Herm Edwards

by nicholas.rodriguez on May 22, 2009 4:08 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

If not for all his off-season antics, Ellis woulda coulda shoulda deserved better

As it is, Ellis wore out his welcome with an annual bitch session that we usually endured for several months. It became as regular as the smell of low tide.

I’m a Tar Heel fan, and absolutely LOVED Ellis for much of his career, but the only thread I was left hanging on was his production on the field. When that started to slip, so did my grip!

I’m a metaphor machine today!

In the end, it’s too bad we look to be parting ways on less than amicable terms. Greg Ellis was a rock through some lean years in Dallas; God only knows how ugly it would have been without his presence.

The guy that stands to miss him the most is Ware. Unless Spencer and the rest of these guys step up, Ware could face a much more regular scheme of double teams. For this reason, I was hoping for one more good year out of Ellis …

Tar Heels = National Champs in Basketball ... #1 in Baseball ... Top 10 this year in Football?

by DalaiLuke on May 22, 2009 6:19 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I would like to keep Ellis, too...

unless we can trade him for a guy like Cribbs, who is formally requesting a trade.

Is it too early to ask what round I should aim for Felix in my fantasy football league?

by Aaron Novinger on May 22, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would

like that trade.

Booyah!

by what_the_crap on May 22, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep.

Me too, that would be a tremendous trade.

That would be the end of Stanback though.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by AirforceBat on May 22, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

why would you say that.......

I know the guy has been injury prone but it would make NO sense to release him right now. They say he will be ready to roll by training camp. So why not see what he does in training camp before everyone is so quick to cut him. I agree that he hasn’t done jack as of yet but i just don’t think it would make any sense to cut him now. If he goes to camp and gets beat out by Manuel Johnson or Ogletree or who the hell ever then thats a different story.

by TARHEEL PAUL on May 22, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

when did his production on the field slip........

He still had 8 sacks last year and was considered a leader by his team mates.

by TARHEEL PAUL on May 22, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It slipped in run support, which is the main reason he became a pass-rush specialist

Tar Heels = National Champs in Basketball ... #1 in Baseball ... Top 10 this year in Football?

by DalaiLuke on May 22, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

how can you say he slipped in run support?

He played on third downs, and was either rushing the passer or covering TEs …. he was not in the game enough during running downs to make that statement

by cowboyfan on May 22, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Draft Pick Next Year

We need to bolster our draft strength for next year; it is a strong class. Plus, we must put Spencer in a position to sink or swim, considering the extraordinary high draft pick investment we have in him.

by Iowacowboy on May 22, 2009 6:25 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Nearly worthless...

I’ve read a bunch of reports and rumors on the Ellis situation. A few say the Cowboys are looking to trade or possibly release him. I interpret this as meaning we won’t get a meaningful pick for him. We’re probably looking at a very low round pick, if at all. And it makes me wonder, why do this? Is Spencer suddenly so studly that he’s ready to fill these pretty big shoes? Greg does most of his bitchin in the offseason. He’ll shut up when it’s time to strap on the pads. I hope we keep him.

by Boundforbeach on May 22, 2009 7:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is odd

that this is the first year in awhile that he has been quite and now they are looking to ship him out. But your right, he does his job when the season starts.

by TARHEEL PAUL on May 22, 2009 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

plus we missed the boat on trading him

his value would’ve been higher before the draft. I think its etched in stone, Ellis we’ll not be a Cowboy this season, and this make me cringe of the idea of Spencer being backed up by a rookie. maybe the organization knows more than I do, but trading or cutting him, it just doesn’t add up.

by dcfanz on May 22, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My guess is Jerry's wallet is looking for relief ... and Ellis was an easy target

Tar Heels = National Champs in Basketball ... #1 in Baseball ... Top 10 this year in Football?

by DalaiLuke on May 22, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Spencer is a huge question mark for me

He’s been very up and down with injuries. Throw in the off season bad decision and he’s a huge question in my mind. I guess we’ll find out.

by StillHateTheGiants on May 22, 2009 6:28 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree.

And not just him, but that leaves 2 late round rookies as the backups. Who have never even practiced in pads for the Cowboys yet. I don’t think it’s a good idea to let Ellis go at this point with so much uncertainty and inexperience behind him. He’s a free agent next year anyway.

More and more signs point to this year being a rebuilding year, and if Ellis gets traded, that will be another big one.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 22, 2009 7:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Agree. Spencer hasn’t earned his spurs.

Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.

by OskieOskie on May 22, 2009 7:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree.....

even though Greg’s whining has grown old, I’m not so fast to jump on Spencer’s bandwagon yet.

by texstar on May 22, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dallas wants to change the culture signifigantly

Ellis was a part of the old culture, or at least a part of public perception of the culture

by AustonianAggie on May 22, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

For all

of Greg’s whining about playing time and pay, I don’t put him in the “culture” of Pacman, TO and Tank. Ellis was a solid citizen in the locker room and on the field. He was never a thug or a prima dona, just a guy who wanted to get his due from the man. We can argue whether his complaints were justified, but he wasn’t part of the troublemaker cult of those others.

Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.

by OskieOskie on May 22, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah.

Greg just has his yearly bitch. Most of it doesn’t even happen in the middle of the season, just the offseason.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by AirforceBat on May 22, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure it grates on mgmt's nerves as well ...

they seem to take the high road in regards to complaining about it. Although, I do seem to remember the tail end of a JJ interview earlier this year where JJ was not exactly diplomatic when the subject of the annual whining came up.

by GalTex on May 22, 2009 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have been an Ellis fan, but the whining year to year didn't help him

Tar Heels = National Champs in Basketball ... #1 in Baseball ... Top 10 this year in Football?

by DalaiLuke on May 22, 2009 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are

absolutely correct on that one. The guy works hard and produces. Personally, that’s all I care about. The rest of it is just the normal negotiating B.S. that all players do.

by jevans1729 on May 22, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Greg's griping

doesn’t bother me so much. I think it irks Jerry, which is most significant from Ellis’ standpoint.

Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.

by OskieOskie on May 22, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's a big fn screen dude

TV at its best!!! wow!!!!

Tired of Ellis news during the offseason, always te same bitchin….trade him for another corner, safety or WR.

by ManTab on May 22, 2009 7:01 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Can't say I'm surprised

I thought Stanback was a long shot this season and also thought Ellis would be traded or released. They need to move both of them before training camp and go with the young and healthy players. Stanback is injury prone and will spend more time on the bench than the field and Ellis will only continue to complain because his reps will continue to decrease.

Trading him for DT/NT to back up Ratliff or a CB makes alot of sense. Might as well get something in return while we can because Ellis was not going to be on this team after this 2009 season.

by Boyzfan94 on May 22, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd love to hook my Xbox up to that sucker.

If I was Jerry, I’d be watching movies, playing video games, and everything on that screen when the stadium wasn’t in use.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 22, 2009 7:03 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Haha

That’d be ridiculous.

I bet Madden Nation has one of their championships there.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by AirforceBat on May 22, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's a GREAT call... talk about promotion

Tar Heels = National Champs in Basketball ... #1 in Baseball ... Top 10 this year in Football?

by DalaiLuke on May 22, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

love this quote by Timmy Mac
If had $40 million to blow and a much bigger living room, I’d definitely purchase one. It’s everything you’d expect out of a 60-yard HDTV.

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/05/lets-talk-cowboys-live-chat-at-noon.html

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 22, 2009 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So sad.

I mean,didn’t he get a huge signing bonus? It’s so crazy that these first round guys have to resort to crime. I had so much respect for Terence Newman, as a man, not as a player, when he said that he still had his rookie signing bonus. That’s awesome. Ryan Leaf got enough of a lump sum that he never ever had to work again and could live well. Crazy.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 22, 2009 7:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

11.25 million rookie signing bonus.

Plus $600,000 bonus when he signed with the Cowboys. Even if he spent 5 million on houses, cars, clothes, etc., and 10% to an agent, he could be pulling in 250k+/year in just interest, in addition to any other income he can produce.

by Baked Potato Soup on May 22, 2009 7:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is crazy.

His first contract was for 31 million, more than 11 of which was a guaranteed signing bonus. We should all be so lucky…

by Boundforbeach on May 22, 2009 7:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is really sad.

He must be an addict still to have to break into some player’s apartment for some pills.

Is it too early to ask what round I should aim for Felix in my fantasy football league?

by Aaron Novinger on May 22, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cowboys must really feel that

Spencer, Williams and Butler are the real deals to trade away a proven pass rusher.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 22, 2009 7:34 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Seems rather pre-mature to do something like this. Can’t we at least see the rooks in camp before cutting our only real vet backup?

by Ridgelake on May 22, 2009 7:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with that.......

but maybe they are trying to do Ellis a favor by doing it now. It would be a lot harder for him to find a good fit right before the season and then have to learn a brand new playbook on the run. Ellis has been a stand up guy (when he’s not complaining) and has given the cowboys 11 solid seasons. Maybe they feel like he deserves it. Just a thought

by TARHEEL PAUL on May 22, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Williams

I thought he was playing inside?

Everything's looking up, Milhouse!

by accidental innuendo on May 22, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is Marcus Dixon

not lining up at OLB? I heard he has gotten in better shape than he was in last year when we drafted him.

by Thehomerpimpson on May 22, 2009 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Remember 2006?

Our Defense was horrible after Ellis tore his achilles and went down. We didn’t have anybody to play the strong side so teams could doubleteam Ware and shut him down. What has changed? Spencer? I still haven’t seen him play as well as Carpenter played against the Seahawks that year. The Rookies? 4th-6th round picks are not going to step in put fear into opposing offenses – especially when they run a 5.0 40. There is a reason 150 guys were picked before these guys.

Anybody is tradable – if there is value available out there. If somebody were giving up real value for Ellis, sure we should think about it. But giving up our only other legitimate pass rushing LB for a late round pick is stupid.

by JimmyJohnson on May 22, 2009 7:46 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Brady had a bunch of sacks. Spencer wont reach the next level if he doesnt play in more passing downs.

Im a guy that likes/liked Carp. He did have a great game against Seahawks but the role of LOLB is different with Wades D as opposed to BPs. I like having Carp being able to back up Spencer if he doesnt get it done but I dont think he gets after the QB like Spencer can. I think Spencer is a better fit there if rushing the passer is the bigger priorty.

The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

by squidlo97 on May 22, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"If somebody were giving up real value for Ellis"

That’s the problem with trading a productive veteran. I think he’s valuable to us and to any organization that needs a starter at DE or LB (3-4). Reports on his sinking run support aside, he’s been a good, nearly great player for us and should be again this year.

However, how much would you pay (in draft stock) for such a player at his age if you’re looking to acquire him? Definitely not a future 4th. I think its a 7th (if that) with unlikely conditions that might make it as high as a 5th.

Would you want to trade Ellis’ productivity for a 7th? Even if it clears cap space that we might use for Ware? I don’t want that deal.

by Eagles suck on May 22, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Meh

I love Ellis, and I’m upset about the lack of depth this would give us, and I also think that we should wait another season before doing anything, but if we need to shop Greg, I pray we get a WR in return, which would be the far bigger need now. I have enough hope from Spencer(who had a good rookie year followed by the typical sophomore slump), and I am excited enough about the rookies. I also like the idea that we kept Justin Rogers(at least, I think so?) and Bobby, both who have experience anyways in playing that LOLB spot.

Fact of the matter is, Greg is old, and we need to see what we have in Spencer this season. By the end of the year, Spencer would be starting anyway….do we really need to have to be listen to Greg complain all year?

by Zach22 on May 22, 2009 8:00 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Ellis was told this year that he would not be competing with Spencer for the starting role

he was told that Spencer was the guy, this change really started last year and this offseason’s move here shows that the situation is set, Spencer is the starter.

Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!

by cowboy78 on May 22, 2009 8:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I read that too

but for the life of me i just don’t get it. Greg Ellis has been very productive over the last couple of years. And why in the hell would you want to hand the starting job over to ANYBODY. Make Spencer earn it. And in my opinion he hasnt done that yet.

by TARHEEL PAUL on May 22, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cant really understand the Ellis trade

unless we are trying to claer cap room for a trade of some kind

by aussie_cowboy on May 22, 2009 8:00 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

i think an underlying theme of this offseason is that Jerry's wallet is tapped out

Tar Heels = National Champs in Basketball ... #1 in Baseball ... Top 10 this year in Football?

by DalaiLuke on May 22, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's Ellis's last year

If I’m not mistaken he’ll be a FA next season, and the idea of a trade is probably out there for that reason. If we get good trade value for him, excellent, if not, he’ll be on the team again. What do we have to lose? He bitches and moans every off season so it ain’t like it can get any worse because of this. Make him unhappy? He’s ALWAYS unhappy. Big freakin whoop!

Greg’s put in some solid years for the team and for that I’m thankful, but I wouldn’t care in the least if we traded him. Quite the opposite, assuming we get decent value. Spencer has had plenty of time to learn the scheme and it’s time to give him a full off season of training with the 1st team. Even if Greg stays.

by sublimezg on May 22, 2009 9:33 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Just cut him

I doubt anyone will trade for him considering his age, salary cap hit, injury history, and attitude.

by DoomsdayD75 on May 22, 2009 9:58 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

We'd take a step

down at the position by cutting Ellis. Yes, he has whined about his playing time and pay, but he is not thug and is a mentor to the younger players.

Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.

by OskieOskie on May 22, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

That would be crazy.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by AirforceBat on May 22, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We'll see about that though.

That will be found out this year.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by AirforceBat on May 22, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Could have a player targetted

they’d like to sign with the cap space created by getting rid of Ellis.

Maybe the plan is to mov Bobby Carpenter back to OLB to back-up Spencer and Ware if the youngsters aren’t ready ( I kid).

by Blammo on May 22, 2009 10:23 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Carpenter > Spencer

The only way he hasn’t lived up to his potential is by not making it on the field. When he has played, he played well. Spencer was a reach to begin with (a projected 3rd rounder). All he’s done is eat Texas BBQ and blow up. He isn’t a serious NFL pass rusher.

by JimmyJohnson on May 22, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What??

Spencer was not a projected 3rd rounder….lol. He was projected to be a first round pick all the way. Agree on Carpenter. When he has played he played very well.

by Boyzfan94 on May 22, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Spencer was the top rated DE/OLB hybrid in his class. He would have been good value at the Brady Quinn slot, he was a steal considering Jerry moved down and up to get Spencer and a future #1.

by birdness on May 22, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're joking, right?

“eat BBQ and blow up?” Offer some proof.

Spencer knocked Ellis out of the starting lineup because Ellis can’t play the run anymore.
On the contrary, nobody can run at Spencer. He blows up TEs and squashed anything
coming right at him. He has not been the rusher they hoped for, but he’s been a starter
for what, six games? His learning curve is Ware’s in reverse. Ware could rush immediately
but it took until season three before he could hold the point of attack.

by Rafael Vela on May 22, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He didn't knock Ellis out of the starting lineup

Wade handed him the starting role before training camp last year because everyone was saying his underperformance was due to a lack of snaps. They decided to give him roughly equal snaps to Ellis. While Ellis continued to be an impact player, Spencer still sucked. Maybe you saw different film than I did. But I didn’t see a dominant run stopper when he was in there. I said he had gotten fat simply because he looked progressively fatter and slower as the season went along.

by JimmyJohnson on May 22, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Spencer didn't suck.

He’s not quite the pass rusher that Ellis is.. but is better against the run and coverage.

You don’t know what your talking about… again.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by AirforceBat on May 22, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who did he cover???

Ellis was the one who drew significant coverage responsibilities.

Again, we didn’t have a dominant run defense last year. We were 5th in the league against the pass and 12th against the run. Nobody ran at Ware. Who was in there on 1st and 2nd downs?

by JimmyJohnson on May 22, 2009 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, you clearly didn't watch the same tape I did

1. Spencer missed the opening of the season cause he needed a scope in camp.
Ellis got the starts and played his way out of the lineup.

2. Ellis had serious converage duties? Don’t make me laugh. Yeah, he was used on Kellen Winslow, but he always had a corner or safety five yards on top of him. You make it sound like he could cover people one on one. Yeah, he had a pick on a pass that went through a Cincy TEs hands and hit him in the gut.

3. Did any teams have big games running at Spencer? No, they didn’t. And if you don’t like my tape, take KC Joyner’s. He told me Spencer is going to get some very good run defense ratings in his new book. To paraphrase Stephen Colbert, I guess you’ll say our tapes have a Spencer bias.

In Ellis’ case, the Redskins gashed him, the Rams rolled him and he lost his first and 2nd down duties in that Giants game.

Spence may or may not be all that. We’re going to find out a lot this year. But Ellis was declining rapidly last year and his mouth isn’t helping him at all.

by Rafael Vela on May 22, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Owned.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by AirforceBat on May 22, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL!

The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

by squidlo97 on May 22, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Vela speaks

and his followers drop to there knees to blow him

by 69 on May 22, 2009 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Naw

just fans hooting at a good azz-whuppin’.

Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.

by OskieOskie on May 22, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's intelligent.

Of course one would suspect that from someone with the originality of having his name be “69”.

Yeah Bevis Yeah!

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by AirforceBat on May 22, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

And I like Greg Ellis, but if you can get anything good out of a trade, you pull the trigger.

Certainly if you think any of these “kids” can fill the same pass rush specialty roles.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by AirforceBat on May 22, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

OUCH!!

Tell it like it is Raf!

Tar Heels = National Champs in Basketball ... #1 in Baseball ... Top 10 this year in Football?

by DalaiLuke on May 22, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's 34, it's over.

He might be a 3rd down DE somewhere, but not with the Boys.

by birdness on May 22, 2009 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wrong

1. Yeah. Spence was out with an injury at the beginning of the season. But they decided that Spencer would be the starter in May of last year. Like I said, Spencer was handed the starting role.
2. Like I said in a previous post, OLB’s aren’t called on to be great pass defenders. All I’m saying is that you can’t say Spencer is better in coverage when Ellis actually had results last season.
3. I believe your tape is always a bit too rosey for the Cowboys. Joyner always says stuff like this… I remember when he labled Jaques Reeves as a top CB based on YPA and you used that as firepower for the argument that we shouldn’t worry about the Cowboys’ failure to upgrade our secondary through the draft a few years ago. I don’t see how a guy can be your top run support OLB, play on all the running downs, and come away with ZERO Tackles for Loss. Ellis didn’t have much opportunity to play the run last year, but he still came away with more tackles… and he got his share of sacks on the passing downs.

by JimmyJohnson on May 22, 2009 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Keep Ellis

in the rotation of pass-rushers while Spencer comes up to speed. Greg ain’t what he used to be, but he can still sic ’em. Plus he focuses the young players when things unravel.

I am encouraged by Raf’s Spencer report, particularly the high marks from KC Joyner. I became a bit of a skeptic after Spencer’s smarting-off-at-a-cop incident.

Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.

by OskieOskie on May 22, 2009 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wade didnt hand him anything.

Ellis was bitching cause he could see the writing on the wall. Ellis also has said he is a good looking young player.

If you mean impact player because he got more sacks then yes. Youou need to watch a little tape but you might want to talk to someone who knows what they are looking at to teach you. Ellis is a better pass rusher but he was spared alot of wear and tear not playing on alot of running downs keeping him fresh for pass rushing. He also is lousy in coverage
.
I understand the venom when guys go after Carp but Spencer has played alot and played well. He seems to be right on schedule as far as developement goes.

The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

by squidlo97 on May 22, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

For a "dominant" run defender

Who played on all the rushing downs, you would think Spencer would have some serious Tackles for loss numbers… He had ZERO tackles for loss last year and fewer overall tackles than Ellis. Not to mention sacks.

Those numbers are significant because 3-4 OLB’s are the ones who should be making tackles in the backfield.

by JimmyJohnson on May 22, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who said dominant?

Ellis didnt shut down Winslow. Give me a break! He made a couple of plays. Im not dissing Ellis. He has done well and even better splitting time with Spencer. Your dislike of Spencer is clouding your judgement. He struggled a little more last year but is on schedule. He has improved to the point they are even considering trading Ellis. That speaks volumes. Ellis has spent a lot of time teaching him the tricks of the trade and he likes him. Dont understand your rant.

The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

by squidlo97 on May 22, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lousy in coverage?

OLB’s aren’t supposed to be great in coverage… only take up space in the flat. But Ellis shut down Kellen WInslow. He had a pass defensed and an INT last year… Let’s see how Spencer did… ZERO in both categories.

by JimmyJohnson on May 22, 2009 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He wasn't

A projected 3rd rounder.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by AirforceBat on May 22, 2009 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He rose in the leadup to the draft

That’s why guys like Gosselin had him as a high 2nd rounder. But if you look at the 2007 draft books, he was projected in the 3rd round. Doesn’t matter now. He was a 1st round pick but hasn’t demonstrated 1st round talent.

by JimmyJohnson on May 22, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Uh huh.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by AirforceBat on May 22, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are a variety of reasons why Dallas is considering moving Ellis

to emphatically put the leadership of the D in Demarcus Ware’s hands
to avoid the roster spot for the injury risk of a mid-30s player
Ellis had become a pass rush specialist because he couldn’t play the run as well anymore
to give Spencer a chance to handle the pass rush duty himself

Wade Phillips knows a lot about pass rushers

by AustonianAggie on May 22, 2009 11:30 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

No

Ware isn’t the leader of that defense and never will be.

He’s not vocal and he’s definitely not fiery.

I think you’re right about Ellis’ age, though. It has to be a consideration, given his injury history.

"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on May 22, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"never will be"

That’s impossible to say. I don’t think he’s that vocal right now, but he had said in the offseason that he wants to step up and become more vocal.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by AirforceBat on May 22, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

One of the reasons Ellis has bitched is he saw for himself the potential of Spencer.

Ellis is a better pass rusher right now. Play Spencer alot more on passing downs and he could be Ellis’s equal by mid season. As an organization if you draft a guy early and he has shown flashes in practice you have to put him on the field. Bad organization stiffle the developement of their own players. Spencer has had dings but has played well too. Im liking the youth movement.

 A team needs a balance of youth and vets or one day you wake up and your team is old. You also cant spend your life second guessing every decision you make. If you thought enough to draft him then you need to eventually play them.

The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

by squidlo97 on May 22, 2009 11:52 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I didnt see anyone play that well at the end of the season. I gave the vet the benefit of doubt.

Spencer still has to be more consistent in his pass rush. I like him and think he will, I just havent seen enough for me to back him yet.

The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

by squidlo97 on May 22, 2009 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Spencer also

has a TE to contend with. Strong side OLBs don’t usually have the sack numbers of the weakside guys. Give the guy a break. Bradie James took a few years to “get it.” Let’s see the guy’s improvement (if any) this year.

by jevans1729 on May 22, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point about Spencer mainly being on the strong side.

Is it too early to ask what round I should aim for Felix in my fantasy football league?

by Aaron Novinger on May 22, 2009 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes but Ellis is heading south fast. He isnt going to get better, in fact he is trying to slow down descending skills. Spencer should be speeding north.

Im not crazy going into the season with 2 unproven rookies and Carp but Spencer needs to play more or he wont develope.

The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

by squidlo97 on May 22, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ellis should go

I don’t know what round draft choice he’d be worth in Cincy, but you can be relatively sure, every year, that it will be at the top of that round. :-)

I’ve said for a long time that Ellis was never right for OLB in either Tuna’s or Wade’s 3-4. He was drafted as a 4-3 DE and really has never lived up to his hype as the 8th pick in the first round. that said, he has fought the good fight in Dallas and I would love to see him get a chance to go back to his natural position.

I know people hate the idea of being weak opposite Ware, but it’s the same people who are touting the draft class, so I dunno what to think.

Either way, he’s not the guy he was supposed to be, and now he’s not the guy he was as early as 2 years ago. If you can get something that strengthens your future, do so.

"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on May 22, 2009 12:01 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I bet you he would prefer to stay in the 3-4 rushing the passer.

He has had his best 2 years of his career playing there.
 Too me the decision comes down to what you can get for him. If its good, do it. If not move on.

The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

by squidlo97 on May 22, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, that helps but its also less wear n tear than directly playing on the line.

It puts him in a better position to rush and he can loop around the inside of the tackle for a stunt. The top 3 sackers were outside LBs in a 3-4 scheme.

The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

by squidlo97 on May 23, 2009 7:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't get it

I don’t understand all of the uproar about losing Ellis…How many multi-sack years has he had in his career again? Try 1 and that was with Ware on the other side. There is such a thing as diminishing return on your investment- see the TO departure in the off season- sure part of it was “chemistry” but I am sure his lack of ability to beat double teams played a part too.

You can’t pay a pash rush specialist $5MM a year if he isn’t going to get double digit sacks- and nothing that I have seen makes me think he can repeat his 2007 numbers. I trust that Wade- now that he is in total control of the Defense- will get Ware his chances through scheme or coaching up Spencer.

by Swirvin on May 22, 2009 12:40 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

ellis

maybe the cowboys know something we don’t about ellis. maybe he failed drug test(steroids maybe). i don’t know. or maybe all this means nothing. we’ll see. soon i hope.

by maxdout on May 22, 2009 12:52 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Doubt

the drug thing.

As to character, I remember a quote from Mac Brown, who coached Greg at NC. “If something were to happen to me, I would want Greg Ellis to raise my children.” I don’t think a doper gets that kind of praise.

Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.

by OskieOskie on May 22, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe they know exactly what we know.

He’s old, he’s now regulated to pass rushing, he bitches every offseason, and they just drafted a ton of pass rushers.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by AirforceBat on May 22, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bite the bullet.

And let these young buckaroos play. Or else keep drafting four more linebackers every year because you don’t know if the guys you already have can play.

by MadMick on May 22, 2009 1:08 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think Flo will get the job done but we need to draft an LT next year.

Im not sold on our ability to coach up a late rounder yet.

The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

by squidlo97 on May 22, 2009 2:37 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Flo will be better this year because he has the full use of both hands. He will be above average as a LT. But we need to draft LT prospects in the 3rd round or higher every year until we find one. They can play LG until they are ready to slide outside.

by JimmyJohnson on May 22, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think we have another problem regarding OL, and that is

coaching and ability to evaluate talent at the position. May be nobody will acknowledge, but how many draft busts we already had in the last few years? Furthermore, positional coaching should be blamed too. Plus if we draft around 15-20 next year all the blue chip LT will be probably gone

by dcfanz on May 22, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

2nd year of the new line coach. We should start seeing his impact soon. He really hasnt gotten his guys.

The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

by squidlo97 on May 22, 2009 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

About the big screen TV

Does anyone have the fear that it will be a visual distraction from the game on the field?

While watching the video on DMN, it seemed like it would be difficult to watch the game while at the same time avoiding any visual impression coming from the top half of your plane of sight.

Thoughts?

by ThryceCubed on May 22, 2009 3:43 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The NFL is a TV sport - I've no doubt they've considered this and made necessary adjustments

Tar Heels = National Champs in Basketball ... #1 in Baseball ... Top 10 this year in Football?

by DalaiLuke on May 22, 2009 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

little off topic, but if were to pick Randy Moss instead of Ellis

JJ wouldn’t have given up two firsts to Seattle…just wandering

by dcfanz on May 22, 2009 5:14 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

wow, when you put it that way, Ellis' whole career was a total bust

Okay… reality:

I am in the camp that says keep him and let him be a 3rd down specialist. He’s a bit expensive, but there’s no doubt he can be a contributor.

Having said that, the future of Ellis as a Cowboy is looking dim.

Tar Heels = National Champs in Basketball ... #1 in Baseball ... Top 10 this year in Football?

by DalaiLuke on May 22, 2009 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Or a 1st and a 3rd to Detroit. But would Randy have lasted under the intense spotlight in Dallas, given his “issues”. Still, in retrospect, Moss would have been a great pick. But hindsight being 20/20, how about Castillo over Spears and Tuck over Burnett in 2005? Where would the Defense be?

by JimmyJohnson on May 22, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or if we took Montana in '79...

Or if we took out Bin Laden when we had him holed up in Tora Bora…

The world’s full of hindsight, but not sure the value.

Tar Heels = National Champs in Basketball ... #1 in Baseball ... Top 10 this year in Football?

by DalaiLuke on May 22, 2009 5:36 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yep

Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.

by OskieOskie on May 22, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but Moss wasn't passed on because of lack of ability.

Jerry passed on him because he wanted to look like a goody two shoes after all of Irvin’s indiscretions. It especially looks like a futile gesture all these years later as Jerry resorted to bringing in an absolute idiot like Pacman just for depth. I guess character issues just aren’t that big of a deal if you go a dozen years without a playoff win.

As far as Moss goes, Jerry was wrong. Sure, he acted an ass a couple of times in Minnesota and he downright quit in Oakland. But there’s been plenty of worse divas than him at that position and aside from nudging a cop with his car he hasn’t came close to maiming anybody. As it is, because of “character concerns” Jerry ended up paying through the nose for a good receiver who isn’t even a pimple on Moss’s ass.

by MadMick on May 22, 2009 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

hindsight is always greener, but think about it two more first rounders, two more blue chippers

not to mention the flip flops about character issues, in 1998 it was an issue with the organization, in 2006 it wasn’t , in 2009 it is again, doest it look like a trend?

by dcfanz on May 23, 2009 3:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ellis clearly dropped off last year....

Dont know if I’d straight up trade him for anything less than a number 3, but i can see why they’re shopping him. He’s likely not going to get any better than he was last year, and according to DMN, there are positive cap implications with trading him.

If they cant trade him, take him to camp. He gripes alot, but come camp time, he shuts up and plays.

As to Spencer, he has definitely shown flashes, I just can figure out whether he is a knucklehead or not.

by THEjarhead on May 22, 2009 6:12 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

we'll be lucky to get a 5th

Tar Heels = National Champs in Basketball ... #1 in Baseball ... Top 10 this year in Football?

by DalaiLuke on May 23, 2009 7:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If they trade...

I’d try to get Parrish away from Buffalo. The Bills could use an experience pass rusher BADLY. And I’d take Parrish for his punt return skills alone.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by AirforceBat on May 23, 2009 11:24 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

get a body

If Ellis is on the move, get a body in here – the Boys will get better value – teams switching to a 3-4, like KC, Denver or Green Bay would have a use for a guy like Ellis that could start for at least the next two years – but forget about a 6th or 7th round pick – what do these three teams have that would interest the Boys besides a low pick? Or teams that also have players ready to be moved? Who might that be? I think maybe the best trade (if the leaves) would be to ship him off th Denver for WR Chad Jackson and the 5th we gave away for OG M Holland….thoughts?

by cowboychris on May 23, 2009 1:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

If Ellis goes, I'd prefer to give the draftees every shot... and getting a draft pick.

Tar Heels = National Champs in Basketball ... #1 in Baseball ... Top 10 this year in Football?

by DalaiLuke on May 24, 2009 3:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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