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The Valley Ranch Review: DeMarcus Ware and Jason Witten Rank in the League's Top 50

Pete Prisco of CBSSports ranks the top 50 players in the NFL. He places DeMarcus Ware just behind QBs Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.

3. DeMarcus Ware, OLB, Cowboys: One number says it all: 20. That's his sack total from 2008. He's the best pass-rushing linebacker in football.

Jason Witten also made the list.

33. Jason Witten, TE, Cowboys: He's a great threat in the middle of the field and has improved as a blocker. Tony Romo loves him and with T.O. gone he might be even more of a factor.

Just a bit outside were Tony Romo and Andre Gurode.

Mike Perrin at The Birmingham News agrees with Prisco's ranking of Ware.

If Prisco's list weren't intended to spark arguments, then you might not argue his choice. Ware had 20 sacks last season for Dallas, his fourth in the NFL after earning All-America honors for coach Larry Blakeney's Trojans.

The Cowboys are doing a top 50 list of their own, counting down the best players in their history to celebrate the 50th anniversary season. Ware is No. 23 on that list - which is at No. 21 today.

That's pretty impressive.

More VRR after the jump.

Star-divide

Jerry Jones says all those injured Cowboys receivers will be ready come training camp. Hallelujah!

"My expectations are that all receivers that were limited, maybe not [Travis] Wilson [knee] — he might not be ready — but other than him, all the rest should be ready for training camp," Jones said.

Scout.com blurbs about one of the Cowboys' rookies who is making an impression.

LB Stephen Hodge is making the transition from college safety. He is a little small but he is very instinctive and aggressive. Hodge will make his biggest impact for the Cowboys on special teams. That was his forte in college and that will be his forte in the NFL. He is expected to be the next standout special team player in the line of Bill Bates, Kenneth Gant and Keith Davis.

The Johnson City Medical Center in Tennessee will rename its children's emergency department in honor of Jason Witten, who has donated $200,000 to the hospital.

Cowboys legend Randy White did a Q & A during an annual Salvation Army Dinner. Here's what he had to say about today's Dallas team:

I’m still a fan. I root for them and I go through the ups and downs with them. Obviously at the end of last season I was very disappointed like everybody else and I’m looking forward to bigger and better things."

"This year, we really don’t know what we’re going to get. Two years ago they looked like a playoff team that was going somewhere and last year, they kind of struggled. I don’t know what we’re going to get this year."

The 'Manster' will be running a football camp this Saturday in Corpus Christi.

Jazmyn Reynolds-Dorsett, "Touchdown" Tony's daughter, will be a Cowboy--an Oklahoma State Cowboy, that is. She recently agreed to play basketball for OSU.

The 5-foot-11 shooting guard is considered one of the top shooting guards in the country, by ESPN's scouting service. The daughter of former Dallas Cowboys and Hall of Fame running back Tony Dorsett averaged 14.2 points and 6.8 rebounds in her junior year at Frisco (Texas) High School.

It looks like Dorsett will be playing against Jim Jeffcoat's daughter, Jacqueline, who says she will commit to the Oklahoma Sooners.

Jeffcoat, a 6-2 center, averaged 7.6 points and 6.5 rebounds – both team highs – last season. Jeffcoat plays AAU basketball for the Fort Worth Frogs.

Cowboys Stadium: the Ring of Honor, trees, and tailgating. Jerry Jones said no new Cowboys will be inducted into the ROH this season.

"We are of course excited about the Ring of Honor. We won't be doing anything in the Ring of Honor this year, as far as any new inductees but it will be every bit as emphasized in our new stadium as it was at Texas Stadium."

[snip]

12 trees were planted on the west side of the stadium. The trees were rescued from Texas Stadium as the site will be converted for other uses.

"These trees were a part of the stadium property and they were going to more than likely just be removed and be dealt away with and its a great honor to share in a kinship with the City of Arlington" explains Irving Mayor Herbert Gears.

In addition to the Cowboys adding shade and scenery to the parking lot, some parking spaces at the new stadium specifically include a grassy area for tailgaters to park. Arlington's Greene Park is also being transformed into an area for fans to gather before and after events, complete with picnic tables and walking paths.

Stadium tours, anyone?

Stadium tours, at $15 for adults and $12 for children, will be conducted every half-hour and last up to 75 minutes.

The tour includes the high-tech scoreboard control room, the press box, the Cowboys locker-room and limited field access.

DC.com posted some vids of Michael Jackson's halftime performance during the 52-17 smackdown the 'Boys put on the Bills in Super Bowl XXVII. Pourin' some out for you, "King of Pop".

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Emasculating...

The emasculated Cowboy QB has a new fragrance called Fancy Love… "It is a fresh, new expression of Jessica’s lifestyle. She is loved and in love." Tex is certain that this will play well in the trenches of the NFC East.

by Montecito Tex on Jun 26, 2009 10:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

PS:

Fire Wade Phillips

by Montecito Tex on Jun 26, 2009 10:32 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't care for it

but it’s a practice done on dozens, if not hundreds of other web sites of all types.
It’s become common net practice.

If you don’t like it, you’re trying to sweep the ocean.

by Rafael Vela on Jun 27, 2009 2:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I tried to figure out a way to continue this conversation in private, but could not.

Please delete my comments, including above, if inappropriate.

All of Tex’s posts, whether annoying, insightful, on topic or off, at least have some sort of content and value and are at least about the Cowboys. I understand that he inspires what may seem like pointless debate, but if the board is going to force people to stay on topic or content is going to be monitored for relevance, it seems like it should be applied to everyone, not just the guy that you have a problem with.

You say it’s like trying to sweep the ocean, but it’s quite easy, actually. Dave said no cussing is allowed here and you rarely see it and when you do, it’s quickly stopped. All that has to be done is for someone in authority to tell people to stop doing it on this board. I’m not asking for it to be stopped, I’m just pointing out that it hardly seems fair to single out one poster who actually does post about the Cowboys, while allowing every other poster to clutter every single thread with a non-Cowboys, no value post that has now expanded to “second” and other variations.

I could say that trying to stop ridiculous posts on the internet is like trying to sweep the ocean, or point out that the mere mention of Tony Romo or TO on this board inspires ridiculous food fights yet those topics are allowed. I feel like you’re drawing a rather arbitrary line in the sand. And yes, people did go off on ridiculous food fights over first when it was introduced to this board, but since none of the board authority had a problem with it, we are just forced to deal with it.

Is this really the route that this board wants to go? Where someone in authority decides whose content and opinions are allowed and whose aren’t based on who they like? I know that if I don’t like it I can leave, but I like it here, I just question this new policy.

by Baked Potato Soup on Jun 27, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

all Tex does is bash Romo

and none of it has any merit whatsoever, so how is that of value??

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Jun 27, 2009 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It makes me laugh.

And hidden in there are actual points when you look beyond the shtick.

by Baked Potato Soup on Jun 27, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree

he’s obsessed with the Simpson family, there are no merit to those comments.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Jun 27, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I was gone all afternoon BPS

so I guess it’s a little late to delete the comments since it’s sparked a long conversation. If the conversation was complete crap I would delete it but it looks as though some things need to be addressed. So I will in this thread.

Tex’s comments don’t violate the guidelines of the site when taken individually. But I agree with Raf wholeheartedly that hijacking threads is rude behavior and not something we want to do here on a regular basis. I get it that sometimes comments come up that take a thread in a totally different direction. But I also feel that when a thread is about something else (like Raf’s previous post), and a concerted effort is made to take that post in different direction that has nothing to do with the post and is obviously being done to satisfy one’s own need to discuss a pet subject, that’s not going to fly. Is it a judgment call? Sure. I just hope you guys trust me and Raf enough to make those calls in a sensible manner.

The issue of “first” is a non-issue with me. Like Raf also said, I don’t care for the practice but it’s certainly not done to hijack a thread and it hasn’t caused a food-fight in long time (excepting this thread). I see a big difference between that and hijacking threads intentionally. I can see that people writing “first” is annoying to you, and that’s OK, but I see comments everyday that annoy me but I just let them go. I think that “forced to deal with it” connotates that everybody on the board is against it, but I’ve found that most don’t care, only a few are truly annoyed enough to carry the grudge. Just my opinion.

I never decide what content is permissible and what isn’t based on how I personally feel about a person. It’s based on serious and sober judgment as to what is best for BTB. I think I’ve done a fair job of that even though I know I have critics.

 

by Dave Halprin on Jun 27, 2009 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for your response.

I just want to state that I do thoroughly enjoy this board and appreciate the hard work that you, Raf, and all involved put into it. Obviously it’s your board and you decide the rules, as it should be.

The “first” thing is annoying to me, but it’s not a big deal. My point was that I think some silly character (because let’s face it, that what Tex is) also fits the category of a “not a big deal annoyance,” in my opinion. I didn’t mean to speak for anyone but myself on that or any other matter. My point regarding Tex is similar to yours regarding “first,” only a few are annoyed enough to carry the grudge. My concern was that it seemed as if maybe Raf was wielding his power to settle his grudge, given that other annoyances are regularly overlooked. I didn’t intend to imply that everyone is against “first,” because obviously it’s quite popular here, or that everyone enjoyed Tex’s posts. My intent was to question whether the warning was truly about the board and not about the individuals.

I wish that I had been able to email him or send him a private message rather than post it here, as I feel like it was a mistake to take my gripe public in this manner. Sorry for disrupting the board.

by Baked Potato Soup on Jun 27, 2009 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bickering

about what poster to bounce and why is a clear indication that we all need some real football to sink our teeth into. I look at Tex and Terry as amusing in their mindless obsessions at the extreme poles of the Tony Romo spectrum. Tex writes funnier stuff, maybe, but Terry cracks us up when he slides into schoolgirl-crush mode.

On balance, I think the two complement each other; neither would be as good without the other as foil.

Bottom line: Hijacking threads is like interrupting every conversation at the party. Shouldn’t be tolerated. Offender should be warned to remove OT posts to an appropriate venue. Best way the rest of us can stifle an offensive poster is to IGNORE him.

Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.

by OskieOskie on Jun 28, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Indeed, we all need some football action.

Just another month to ready ourselves for some shoulder pads!

"Grow where you are planted."

by Aaron Novinger on Jun 28, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not all the same

Tex’s post is designed to bring attention to himself by p***ing off most other bloggers. And as Raf notes, it’s steers every single thread off course.

If you want to sliong mud at Romo, do a fanpost.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 27, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does he upset most posters on this board?

I would be willing to bet quite a lot that most people here are either amused or apathetic towards Tex’s posts. Personally, I ignore posts on topics that don’t interest me, or by posters that I don’t enjoy. It has been pointed out in other threads that there are other posters that inspire similar reaction, but even more frequently.

And if the problem with Tex’s posts are that they are designed to bring attention to himself and anger other posters, how would you classify storming into a thread and declaring yourself “first,” “second,” etc. without actually posting about the topic? That irritates me more than anything else that has ever been posted on the board. I understand that it’s somehow tradition, but if you want internet tradition, there is none more prevalent than idiots voicing their opinion (including me).

I’m not asking for the practice to be stopped, even though I would very much like that. I’m just pointing out that no one else is forced to stay on topic, so why single out this poster? It’s not fair and it makes me worry about where the line will be drawn in the future.

by Baked Potato Soup on Jun 27, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Get em Raf.

Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein.

Joe ThEEsman

by SB Six on Jun 27, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You overstate it when you say

MT is being singled out. He’s singling himself out. Who else consistently takes every thread and points it at one player? I have no doubt that anyone else doing that would also be called out. Signing on with “first” may not relate to the thread, but it also doesn’t attempt to inflame (and please don’t tell me that this isn’t his purpose) and change the direction of the discussion.

I don’t know whether the blog ought to ban him or not, but it’s childishly out of line with everyone else posting here.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 27, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think raf has a little more vitrol for Tex ever since Tex made his

comments about how he was happy that Jim Johnson was sick and that it was a good thing for dallas because they hired B. Stewart. Even though the statement was stupid because they did not hire B. Stewart to replace JJ but to come in as a secondary coach.

Full disclosure, I usually just ignore him, he reminds me of a poster called Ram’s Fan from the DMN Blog; with the same MO, he is here to incite and troll.

Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!

by cowboy78 on Jun 27, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let me point a couple of things out

I ran my old sites for over four years. And in that time the number of people banned could be counted on the fingers of one hand. A lot of people were warned, but most took the advice and kept on football or the matters at hand.

But people were banned for a reason. Those who used foul language, engaged in political flame wars, or personally attacked other posters were bad for business.

We don’t do this for shits and grins. It’s hard work to put up several posts every day of the year. I’ve written thousands of posts, as has Grizz. I use the analogy of the bar to describe a successful site with a well-attended comment sections. We’re the bartenders and the commenters are the patrons.

If we let an obnoxious poster who gets drunk and rude and vomits on himself become a regular, we’re driving other people away. And this isn’t hyperbole. We have the numbers to prove it. When a few people go nuts and poison the threads, it drives traffic away. And our pay is modest enough as it is. I’m not going to let some narcissistic, attention-whore punks undo years of my work. I’m pretty sure Dave feels the same way.

We’ve got a lot of skin in this game, BTS. You don’t. We take banning very seriously and don’t abuse it. But at the same time we value our work and do what we can to protect it.

And let me add to your “worry.” This site has been around for five years. If you’re still unclear on the acceptable tone here, you never will be.

by Rafael Vela on Jun 27, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Let me commend you for the fantastic job you are doing, I am new to the blog,

and I really like the way its run. 99% of the people here are die hard Cowboys supporters and we strive for team news and analysis. Yes Tex’s posts are twisted, for all I know he could be D.Bleadsoe, but on the other spectrum of the issue we have Terry, all in all is good though. Its one man opinion and its with content about a player, its not politics or cursing or personally attacking people on the board. I think it is fine as it is.

by dcfanz on Jun 27, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kinda rude, don't you think?

I don’t think anyone will argue that you take a much more combative and abrasive tone with the “patrons” than Dave ever has, and the people running and writing the board have been altered quite a bit recently. It’s silly to say that if I haven’t figured it out by now that I never will, given that things have changed significantly even from when the sites merged to now.

This board has been here for 5 years, but a poster that did not use foul language, did not personally attack another poster, and did not engage in a political flame war was threatened with banning for posting about the Cowboys within the past 24 hours. And this is within a couple of weeks of you, an authority figure on the board, declaring the same poster “dead to you” for his opinions. Meanwhile, almost every single thread on this board since the merger has been cluttered with off topic “first” posts. That has not been happening for 5 years, by the way.

I’ll point out that in your same post about personally attacking other posters as a reason for banning, you are the one that uses insulting language to refer to other posters (“narcissistic, attention-whore punks”).

It’s equally insulting that you personally have not been a part of running this board for anywhere near 5 years but attempt to play it off that this is the way things have always been. There has been a definite shift in tone since you have been the primary “manager,” which is demonstrated in the language that you used in your post.

I’m not attempting to insult you, and definitely not this site which I love, or Dave. I just don’t understand what Tex did to violate the rules, particularly when there were 2 off-topic posts before his in this same thread. It seems like any intelligent poster would know to just skip his posts when they encounter them if they find his content objectionable.

by Baked Potato Soup on Jun 27, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i agree

This guy loves to throw out the warning. i got the red card for calling a guy a dumbass. but what are you supposed to do when someone calls you a mcnabb fan? thats like slapping your mom infront of you! besides, this is football not tennis. these people should grow thicker skins. i thought the whole point of blogs was to express an annonomys opinion on a topic. it’s not like any of us are going to ever meet eachother.

by mutombo4life on Jun 27, 2009 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We'd all be a lot better off if people dialogued

as if they were going to meet each other. The best part of blogging is connecting with other fans and exchanging ideas. I know personally I have learned a lot. The worst is the mob mentality – using anonymity as an excuse to be outrageous, rude or disrespectful.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 27, 2009 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

all this from the guy who got me the warning in the first place

tell you what buddy. apologize for calling me a mcnabb fan and i’ll appologize for calling you a dumbass.

by mutombo4life on Jun 27, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't actually call you a McNabb fan

As you recall I said that I didn’t follow the thread all the way to the top to see what you were responding to. I assumed you were trying to take on the Cowbiys’ QB.

But I didn’t cause you be warned. I’m pretty sure you chose your words all by yourself.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 27, 2009 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

dunkman, If he wants to take on the Cowboys QB, he can.

This idea that people can’t criticize Romo or that they can only criticize him so much is false. Everybody is entitled to criticize Romo and everybody is entitled to defend Romo. There are no levels decided on by individual posters that lets them take personal shots back at other commenters based on the idea they are over-criticizing a player. You recall we had a discussion before where I asked you not to call people Giants fan or Eagles fans because they criticize Romo. I reiterate that previous conversation now.

And by the way, (for everybody, not just dunk) I don’t care if Tex criticizes Romo. But as mentioned above, when it’s being done to hijack a thread, then we draw the line. And yes, that’s a subjective decision by Raf and I. Sorry, that’s the best we can do.

by Dave Halprin on Jun 27, 2009 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right, I never questioned his right to criticize Romo

In fact he wasn’’t. He was criticizing McNabb. I wasn’t challenging his right to criticize. I was explaining why I debated his point. He misunderstood and I think even today he didn’t quite understand what happened. I didn’t call him an Eagles fan or anything else. In fact, I was more than surprised to be called a dumbass, but I also didn’t fire back at that.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 27, 2009 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

To be precise

This is exactly what I said to M4. Not one mention of being an Eagles fan.

That’s so cliche I almost didn’t respond Great players don’t always hoist trophies and "losers" don’t throw stats into it.

Stats are the only way to measure an INDIVIDUAL while championships measure TEAMS.

But hey, if nifty catch-phrases make life easier by not having to think too hard, have at it…

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
by dunkman on Jun 22, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 27, 2009 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

mutombo4life

You were warned for calling someone a dumbass, but you were also warned for using profanity repeatedly in posts. In the past week or two I had to get rid of four comments of yours for profanity. So I sent you a warning.

I don’t know what your idea of a blog is, but Raf and I have a very definite idea of what this blog will be and it won’t be a wild-west, say-anything-you-want situation. We are trying to craft a blog that caters to intelligent debate, not resorting to our worst instincts.

by Dave Halprin on Jun 27, 2009 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But hey, if nifty catch-phrases make life easier by not having to think too hard, have at it…

How is this not an attack on my intellagence? If dunkman would have bothered to read what i was saying all the way back in the first place, none of this would have been needed. I was pointing out that niether romo or mcnabb had won a superbowl. I was actually defending Romo as I often do having to live in houston. I had to wear my Romo jersey the entire time during that last game with philly.(i was at a party hosted by an eagle fan)He took my comment as an open invitation to try to slam one on me. But, it’s cool. I would like you to point out the other comments you had to erase. I know the ones with this guy were, but what others? I visit this site daily, and don’t remember any of them dissapearing. I think you have the wrong impression of me. I am a diehard Cowboy fan. Always will be. Even if you ban me from your blog. This guy took a shot at me and got one back. plain and simple. You should have noticed that every other post i made was stricktly football.

by mutombo4life on Jun 29, 2009 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Geeze

give it a rest already.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 29, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i don't believe i was talking to you

Take it somewhere else. There was a misunderstanding that i was trying to clear up mainly because you decided to throw your two cents in where it didn’t belong. I have to deal with smug jerks all day long. I don’t feel like hearing it from other cowboys fans. this is why the other teams don’t like us

by mutombo4life on Jun 29, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Check yourself, stud

First, I’ll take it where I like. Second, you mention my name, you ask for my input. Third, this is an open blog. Everyone gets to throw in their two cents worth, where and when they want, within the rules.

You want to keep arguing about the word you used, argue away. But don’t try to make it my problem. You chose the word, not me.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 29, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you are totally correct

This is the last i will respond to you. This all started because you thought you would throw your smug opinion my way. And you were completly wrong about where i stood. I even tried to extend an olive branch by offering a mutual apology. But, it’s cool. You shouldn’t push people you don’t know “Check yourself, stud First, I’ll take it where I like” I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t say that to my face. If you want to talk football, it’s all good. If you want to insult me,
(But hey, if nifty catch-phrases make life easier by not having to think too hard, have at it…), don’t be surprised when i tell you to take bath with the toaster. GO COWBOYS.

by mutombo4life on Jun 29, 2009 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nope

But I will apologize to the rest of the board for my part in all of this silliness.. I shouldn’t get caught up in this kind of nonsense. This is a Cowboys’ blog, not a p***ing contest. Mea culpa.

Now back to your regularly scheduled football discussion.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 29, 2009 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rec'd

I think most of the regulars know I check in from the Seahawks blog (mainly because this place has one of the most hilarious game threads around).

I’ve been lurking and digging through the archives and it seems Tex’s only motive is to say Romo sucks and the Simpson family is the scum.

That’s not even the least bit constructive and in fact it’s destructive to a site like this. If all of the writers wrote and researched their asses off only for someone to knowingly do a threadjack for their own agendas then it’s rude.

BTW whatever happened to Dave in Atlanta?

Look forward to playing you guys again in the new stadium in a few months.

Andy Reid is the only coach in NFL history that uses the pass to set up the pass.

by SSreporters on Jun 27, 2009 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

Don't believe everything you think.

Your causes are cute!!!

by stoproyce on Jun 27, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I get both sides

He is funny but i know not to respond and let him think hes causing a stir if that is his true intention.

on the other hand i get hijacking threads. Before youd hear from him once a week and then it was ok but of lately its been every post. And fanpost.

What the French?! Toast!

by thebigham on Jun 27, 2009 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

true that

Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey

by Seanrude on Jun 28, 2009 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Me likey the Stephen Hodge

We need an intimidater and this guy sounds like he’s perfectly suited to separate football from ball carrier.

Training Camp '09 = Mega Thunder Dome....80 men enter, 53 men leave.

by APerfectStar on Jun 27, 2009 12:43 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I like what the Cowboys are doing

Two years ago the Boys had quite a haul in the draft. Even the one they let go, Walden, seems like he’s going to be a player.

So they come back this year without a premium pick, and take a whole slew of obscure players that fit a certain mold. Three months ago I wouldn’t have believed that I could get excited about the players they drafted with no first or second round pick. They obviously had a plan. They stuck to their guns. This shows some football character at the top.

With this in mind you have to think they have a plan for this season. Some of it we know. Wade is going to run the D, and Garrett is infusing new wrinkles into the offense everywhere. I hope it works out for them for Jerry and Wade’s sake. They’re really trying.

Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein.

Joe ThEEsman

by SB Six on Jun 27, 2009 9:32 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

On the draft, you really have to love what they did in hindsight. I was throwing stuff at the TV when they got McGee, Buehler, and even Phillips. But as the offseason has gone on, I have to look at it this way…

Who would you rather have? LBs Octavian, Stewart, Rogers, and a bitching Ellis or a quartet of highly athletic youngsters that were some of the most productive players in their respective leagues?

Keith Davis, Thong at $6mil, Watkins, and Brown or 4 guys that can cover, play ST, and develop plus a 25 year old vet that was the best player on a once dominant defense?

A CB that could no longer cover man and lost his step in zone or 2 second year players that have proven they can play and have enormous upside plus a couple of real promising rookies (Mickens, for one may be the steal of the draft, according to many pundits)?

If churning the bottom of the roster is the goal, then consider the ’09 draft a success. And if we just hit on the average draft bust rate of 50%, that means we still have 6 new starters come 2011. Not bad, not bad at all.

It's not personal, it's just business

by Fighter15 on Jun 27, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Churning The Roster

The draft certainly did this but the goal was much more substantive. Dallas reviewed last season are realized that team was gutless and heartless. The 2008 team needed to be put to sleep and never thought of again. This new group has more integrity; more speed. It is younger obviously. I think the new team will take to Wade and Garrett and Romo leadership more completely. Thank the Lord that Jerry and Stephen recognized last season was not a fluke — but was the product of too many outsized egos and overrated and underahieving veterans.

by Iowacowboy on Jun 27, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

There was talk before the draft that they were looking for “football payers” – smart, hard-nosed athletes. And it looks like that’s exactly what they got. When you consider that last year’s draft had guys like that as well (Scan and Choice to name two) I like the direction they are going with drafts. It’s Patriot/Steelers-like and that’s a good thing.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 27, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree On What Cowboys Are Doing

Besides using a shotgun in the draft, they gave the team a lobotomy by releasing Roy Safety and Greg Ellis along with the crew of malcontents led by Mr. Narcissism TO. The rankings of Ware and Witten are on target but I think Gurode is overrated. The most important part of being a center is getting the ball to the QB consistently and properly. Gurode is the worst in the league at snapping the ball, period.

by Iowacowboy on Jun 27, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree about Gurode.

Typically the center is the “QB” of the offensive line, but as we learned last year, Kosier helps with making the line calls, and without him, the team struggled with blitz pick up and other issues. I wonder if he wouldn’t be a more effective guard where all he has to do is block, which he does excel at, and if the Cowboys might benefit from looking for a quality Center that can consistently snap the ball on target and make the majority of line calls.

by Baked Potato Soup on Jun 27, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gurode's

One of the best centers in the league. His only real weakness is slow, high snaps from the shotgun.

The allegation that he needs Kosier to make line calls is an unsupported fantasy.

by kindablue on Jun 27, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think Gurode was as effective without Kosier

but that may attributable to the team work they’ve developed over time. Lines, like other units, play significantly better the more time they have together.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 27, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed That Experience Together

Is important. But I would not agree Gurode’s play dropped much off much if any last year. Proctor was a matador at left guard, Flozell’s arm injury made him much more vulnerable, and Davis too often made mental mistakes and used poor technique. But Gurode? He was rock solid, except for the aforementioned snaps.

by kindablue on Jun 27, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gurode Being Rock Solid

Except for being unable to snap the ball is like saying the Titanic was a great ship except for that nasty iceberg, or that Mickelson is a great golfer except for his inability to make the short putt. Gurode screws up Romo by making Romo take his eye and brain off the defense for a second, at the precise moment that Romo’s needs to have all attention across the line of scrimmage. Gurode is like an auctioneer who stutters; as good as this draft class may turn out to be, the better move would have been to move up and snag a center. Or to have snagged a center in free agency.

by Iowacowboy on Jun 27, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just think what would happen if his wild snaps came at a crucial moment to lose a crucial game...or two, even.

If he can’t learn to adjust that part of his game, it will go from annoying to a liability quite quickly.

"Grow where you are planted."

by Aaron Novinger on Jun 27, 2009 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just Think What Would Happen

If Romo were to fumble at a critical moment in a game.

Oh, never mind.

by kindablue on Jun 27, 2009 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was gratuitous

Wasn’t the topic Gurode? How about a drop in crucial game like CVrayton? Or TO a half do\zen times? Or Proctor blowing his assignment complately? Would any of that say anything at all about Gurode and long snaps?

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 27, 2009 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You Are Not My Supervisor

And I don’t need your permission to post. Further, had you read my post with an open mind, instead of one wound up to attack, you would have recognized it was not gratuitous: Speculating on apocalyptic scenarios about an occasional problem experienced by our center are miniscule compared to those which we’ve already experienced. Like, Romo had the highest ratio of fumbles to sacks of any starting quarterback in the league.

And by the way, as long as I’m drawing analogies, I’m still on topic. Not that I need your approval to post here.

by kindablue on Jun 27, 2009 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did I say anything about you needing permission to post?

Where did all that come from?

You left the topic of Gurode and I called that out. Not one thing in there was personally aimed at you, only your argument. I actually buy your main point that it is occasional and therefore unimportant, but bringing in unrelated players does nothing for your point. In my opinion, of course.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 27, 2009 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where Did It Come From?

From trying to enforce a value system as to how ‘worthy’ a post is by referring to it as ‘gratuitous’—when, if you’d read carefully my original post and my subsequent explanation, you’d have realized it was not.

From presuming to act as a topic police, which is censorious and obscurantist in nature.

Grizz can tell me how worthy my posts are. He can tell me whether I am off topic. You may not. I don’t need your permission.

And that all is assuming my post was off topic. You didn’t call me out on anything. I explained myself on my previous post, and how my original comment related to the discussion as an analogy. Had you read both carefully, you would have known that already.

by kindablue on Jun 27, 2009 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are way off base

I never said or implied any of that. It wasn’t a personal attack. I challenged the logic of your argument, not whether you or your posts were “worthy”. Where have I acted as topic police? Did I say you had no right to post? Did I indicate that you should refrain from posting or needed anyone’s permission? This is all imaginary.

I simply stated that brinnging up examples of other people who make mistakes in execution when the disuccsion is about one particu;ar person is grauitous. You are free to disagree. That’s the nature of a debate.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 27, 2009 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I also type like a left-handed monkey

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 27, 2009 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Gratuitous"

“Gratuitous” means “not called for” or “unwarranted”. Using that term on a post passes judgment as to whether it is worthy of being made. A person calling a comment ‘gratuitous’ is acting to censor their views. It’s not imaginary, it’’s consistent with usage of the English language.

When you presumed to tell me if I was off-topic, you were again acting in a supervisory fashion. I don’t need you to tell me whether my post is off-topic—especially, as I’ve said for three times now—it was not. Grizz can do that, because he invested his hard-earned time on this board. You do not have the authority to make such a statement of me, especially since it was not true in the first place.

by kindablue on Jun 27, 2009 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's a serious reach

to say that calling something gratuitous is an attempt at censorship or supervision.

This is my English language usage of “gratuitous”:

being without apparent reason, cause, or justification

Which is precisely how I meant it – that I felt that it had no relationship to the discussion. That’s pretty much it. No hidden meaning that I demand you do something or call into your question to an opinion, or have assumed some supervisory or authoritative role, or am attempting to censor you. Just simple disagreement.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 27, 2009 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well stated Dunk

Some posters need to relax their sphincters and pull the stick out.

Training Camp '09 = Mega Thunder Dome....80 men enter, 53 men leave.

by APerfectStar on Jun 29, 2009 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah but I also need to avoid

these long, interpersonal dialogues. kindablue isn’t a jerk on this board. Something I said just went down the wrong way. I thought I was just explaining but sometimes when you’re not face-to-face it all gets lost in the translation.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 29, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know what you mean

Your astute comparison of these long shrinking threads resembling the last moments of a toilet’s contents being sucked down the drain was right on the money.

Training Camp '09 = Mega Thunder Dome....80 men enter, 53 men leave.

by APerfectStar on Jun 29, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ha!

Can’t believe anyone remembered that line. But it’s what I think every time. The Tidy Bowl Man’s worst nightmare…

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 29, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The QB has his hand on the ball 99.9% of the snaps, like he's supposed to.

And he’s the guy who has to make up for Gurode’s errors—not the other way around.

Personally, I think it’s lame that AG can’t get the snapping down. He’s a center for crying out loud. Besides being a good blocker, as he is, he’s gotta get consistent w/those snaps. Timing can be everything in the 2-minute drill, or 3rd and six hittin’ RW on a slant. The QB and receivers shouldn’t have to worry about or adjust to something as simple as a shotty snap.

"Grow where you are planted."

by Aaron Novinger on Jun 27, 2009 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Proportion Is Everything

Dallas ran the two minute drill several times last year, right? How many of those snaps affected the timing of Romo and the team? Did those snaps kill any of our drives? Cause us to lose a game? I can’t name a single one, and I doubt you can, too; if you could have, you would have mentioned it by now.

This horse is getting flogged so much its rib cage is starting to show through. Yes, his high snaps on the occasional shotgun snap are annoying. Yes, they have the potential to be a problem. Yes, I would dearly love to see this problem corrected. But before we throw the baby out with the bath water, we need to recognize what (literal) great strengths Gurode brings to this team. The scapegoating of the offensive line in general and Gurode in particular has been completely out of proportion to what the problem is.

by kindablue on Jun 27, 2009 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Gurode's strengths are clearly recognized. No doubt about that.

And if I wanted to review tape and find those moments where Romo has had to chase down a high snap or adjust his reception of it I would. But I don’t want to. I see it in just about every game. It’s just one of those small fundamentals—like Flo’s false starts—that could be worked on in order to keep the offense on its rhythm. Doesn’t matter who the QB is; the problem needs rectification.

"Grow where you are planted."

by Aaron Novinger on Jun 28, 2009 7:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Terrible Analogies

And you’re assuming that this happens every single snap, which is a wild exaggeration. It occasionally happens on the shotgun snaps, which is annoying and sometimes troubling. But it’s hardly worth the hysteria it’s generated on these boards. The guy hardly ever gives up sacks, hardly ever is beaten, and is a great drive blocker. Complaining about his poor shotgun snaps is like complaining that Babe Ruth didn’t steal enough bases. The whole discussion is just silly.

by kindablue on Jun 27, 2009 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Doubtful Gurode Will Ever Get Better At Snap

I think Gurode’s opportunity to improve was last year; after the Giants playoff loss, it was clear Gurode was a liability snapping the ball. Gurode caused all kinds of problems in that game. Not only are the snaps the slow moving arch trajectory, Gurode fails to deliver the ball at the precise time Romo makes the bark for the ball; this then contributes to the line being out of sync, if not in illegal motion. Plus, Romo has to make a tiny jump at the snap to be ready for whatever Gurode may puke up by way of a snap. Sure Gurode can take on mean nasty NTs for the most part but his more important job is to deliver the ball to Romo timely and consistently; this he does not do. After last year, Gurode is what he is; the question is whether we can win a championship with this liability with respect to snapping the ball hanging around. This past draft had three great centers in it; there were several on the free agent market. I bet we live to regret putting our eggs in the Gurode basket.

by Iowacowboy on Jun 27, 2009 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that he has snap issues

But before I spent a pick on a center I’d be trying to shore up the T spot., followed by G.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 27, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

True - Cowboys Need A LT

Flo may have several years left but he seemed fragile last year. I wonder if Dallas has an eye on any possible free agents that might come on the market in the next few years.

by Iowacowboy on Jun 27, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have wondering that too

you’d almost think they do considering they made zero effort in FA and through the draft.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 27, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that their plan might be to move Davis.

It seems like they consider themselves set and are working harder to develop a guard than a tackle. Maybe that’s because they think they can just move Davis to tackle and then replace his spot with Holland.

by Baked Potato Soup on Jun 27, 2009 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm

Good point.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 27, 2009 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If a QB can...

work on and perfect his footwork and throwing motion, and receivers can work on running more precise routes, and rushers work on perfecting their techniques..couldn’t Gurode work on and improve his snaps?

I agree, when he yips one of those snaps I’d like to shoot him, but I think he did a pretty good job of handling Haynesworth when we last played the Titans. Haynesworth is a load and I think Gurode frustrated him so much that Haynesworth reacted by stomping on AG when he was down. Now that we have to see Amiable Albert twice a year, I’m hoping that Hudson Houck is making Gurode learn to snap that ball with authority.

"He has a peculiar felicity of expression." John Adams

by Jim Vance on Jun 27, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yips Are Not Curable

Learning to run a more precise route; adjusting your footwork as a QB, making swing changes for a golfer or a baseball player . . . these are routine and part of any game. However, the yips are a psychological and neurological deficit that is not easily cured. Remember the second baseman that couldn’t throw to first base? This type of problem is causing Gurode to be unable to snap; I gave him a pass after the Giants game. After last season, I think Gurode will end up being the Cowboys weak link if they get to the championship level. These type problems get exacerbated at crunch time. I wish it weren’t so but I am very worried about Gurode.

by Iowacowboy on Jun 27, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you

are being a little unfair with Gurode. The shotgun snap is not a “gimme” in the NFL. There are many teams in the NFL whose regular center is not the center for special team snaps for punts and field goals. The Cowboys are paying a long snapper for exactly that task and have been for years. The shotgun snap, while not the same, is similar to those snaps. While I agree that his miscues give me reasons to curse his birth, I don’t think you trade that for a center who will require help with the best NTs in the league. The pass rush up the middle is the most devestating for a QB and Gurode is one of the best in the NFL at stopping it. The guy is not making the Pro Bowl every year for no reason.

by jevans1729 on Jun 27, 2009 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't wait

to see these rooks start knocking the snot out of the enemy. They have rookies who can get in the heads of opposing players. All it takes is one bone-jarring hit, and the momentum can change. The momentum of the game, the momentum of the season, hell, the momentum of this entire franchise. We no longer have to wonder who’s going to pop off next. The only popping that’s going to take place is on the field of play. I haven’t been this excited about the Pokes since 1991.

Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein.

Joe ThEEsman

by SB Six on Jun 27, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fourty-ninth

Andy Reid is the only coach in NFL history that uses the pass to set up the pass.

by SSreporters on Jun 27, 2009 6:23 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Haha

Well played sir.

it was weird, I... I mean you probably didn't hear about it because I went under the name of Mike Honcho. But I just wanted you to know that. If you can hear me, if it got into your brain somehow. That I spread my buttcheeks as Mike Honcho.

by AirforceBat on Jun 27, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How does that guy justify ranking Palmer and McNabb over Romo?

Tony Romo is currently tied with Peyton Manning for the second highest career QB rating in history. Carson Palmer and Donovan McNabb aren’t even in the top ten.

by krl97a on Jun 27, 2009 9:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You are correct sir

Steve Young 96.8, Romo and Manning tied at 94.7.

However Manning has done it a lot longer and won a game we like to call the Super Bowl…a little FF for ya ha ha

I'm worried about the beer supply. After this case, and the other case, there's only one case left- Barney Gumble

by CptChaosSidekick on Jun 28, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

SB do matter, but for me basically when you are talking career achievements

like HOF. I’m pretty happy with having a QB for now who can play at that level. A few years from now my happiness will be judged differently, though. I guess it’s more for me about patience and longer-range perspective.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 28, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

I want to put this out there as a disclaimer: I’m not a flame war starter or troll or whatever. That being said it all comes back to winning in the Nov/Dec time frame. Romo not only hasn’t done it but it could be argued he’s the reason you haven’t one a playoff game in awhile.

The QB rating and how ever they come up with it is not nearly as important as completion percentage and TD to INT ratio IMO. Aikman never had Romo’s gawdy numbers but was clutch and a leader.

I'm worried about the beer supply. After this case, and the other case, there's only one case left- Barney Gumble

by CptChaosSidekick on Jun 28, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well QB rating is all of those

it’s TDs, picks, yards, percentage. It’s not a bad metric as stats go.

It could be argued, but it would be an incomplete picture. He certainly bears some of the responsibility for all the losses. And as QB, he’ll be first in line for criticism. But he’s not the whole story. In 2006 he fumbled, but as QB he was clutch in their drive to get to the FG.

 In 2007 he was just OK in the playoff game, but the defense was also just OK, and ST were fairly bad. Worst of all, the O-line began showing cracks.

In 2008 the O-line was bad largely due to injuries and because of that we will never know how Romo would have done. He missed three games for his finger and played with a bad back for the last three and a half. But more than all of that, ST went from bad to terrible.

You can see the team’s assessment after each season as well. First they “fixed” the defense by having Wade take over play calling. And the defense made remarkable strides.They also up-gunned the running game, which by any measure is now a strength. But ST were terrible, despite extra attention in practice. So they drafted guys who even if they are career back-ups, they should help fix the field position issues.

Staubach was clutch and a leader. And in Landry’s mind, a loose cannon. I still contend that Romo’s story isn’t written yet. He may begin declining as predicted by some here and be nothing more than a flash in the pan, or may progress and continue to improve. Some of it is his line and the ability to run. Elway went from the greatest to never win the big one to simply among the greatest and it wasn’t Elway that changed, it was the circumstances around him.

In some ways I feel the same about Eli and Jason Campbell. Two guys fans and media were starting to write off way too early. I think Campbell can still be a high-quality QB, but people are ready to ditch him. It’s remarkable to me.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 28, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Romo has as many Super Bowl wins as Carson Palmer and Donovan McNabb

Romo excells in pretty much every category. He’s currently one of the best QBs in the league, and he’ll probably get better.

by krl97a on Jun 28, 2009 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you about Palmer, but not McNabb.

The Eagles traditionally play better as the season goes on, and McNabb is part of that, plus they have won a lot of playoff games. For example, McNabb’s QB rating for the season was 86.4 which is decent, but he was above 90 in 4 of the last 5, all wins. The previous season, 3 of their last 4. He had zero games below 70 in December of either year.

Conversely, Romo had a rating of 91.4 for the season, better than McNabb, but he only had a rating above 90 in 1 of 4 December games last year and 1 of 4 the previous year. He had a rating below 70 in 5 of the 8 December games over the past 2 years.

So McNabb gets better as the season goes on and Romo gets worse. I think that coupled with playoff wins, that trumps QB rating for the season. As for Palmer, I think that he and Romo are about at the same level when healthy, although Palmer may be a little more consistent.

by Baked Potato Soup on Jun 28, 2009 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Consistency.....

Do any of the other elite QB’s go through the kind of erratic spells Romo does? Do they throw nearly as many wacky bad passes? Well, besides Lord Favre, of course. I’m not so sure. I mean sure Drew Brees is prone to throwing really bad INT’s from time to time. In particular, he had a couple of horrible red zone picks against the Falcons that lost them the game.

But when Romo’s off his game, it’s almost as bad as watching a wild pitcher and it’s not just his decision making that’s off.; the ball’s just not going where it’s supposed to. Was Romo being banged up and banged around to blame for some of his poor throws down the stretch? I hope that’s the case. We’ll see.

by MadMick on Jun 28, 2009 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, McNabb for starters

It’s possibly even worse with him. And Eli. And Brees’ picks were about the same as Tony’s. Romo does have some bad games, but there aren’t really that many. Where he struggles the most is no suprise, when the team can’t handle the pressure. I say the team, because they also have trouble running in those games as well.

Where I think he needs work is (1) Not forcing the ball when the play isn’t there. That’s the [art that is Favre like (2) Holding the ball more securely in the pocket (3) Taking a few more dump-offs or runs rather than forcing a pass

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 29, 2009 5:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You believe McNabb DOES have more Super Bowl wins than Romo, lol?

Yeah, McNabb did get stronger late last year but remember that he had played so poorly earlier in the season that people were writing off his future in Philly. It also helped that they faced the sad sack Browns in one of those last four games.

The Cowboys’ opponents in those four games ended up with combined records of 44-20, while the Eagles opponents were 33-31. The numbers were further skewed when you remember that Dallas had to face four of the best defenses in the league, including one in freezing conditions up in Pittsburgh. Those numbers should just be thrown out. Sure, Romo lost the head to head face off with McNabb, but the whole team dropped a goose egg after that gut wrenching loss to the Ravens so it’s hard to put that squarely on Romo’s shoulders, and he beat McNabb when they played at Dallas earlier in the season.

As for the playoffs, the defense carried McNabb’s team to what success they have had, and he didn’t distinguish himself well when he did get to that one Super Bowl (75.4 rating; fell apart in the clutch at the end when they still had a chance to win). Romo’s only played two full years (more or less) and neither of the two playoff losses were really his fault. It’s premature to call that a trend yet.

It’s still early in Romo’s career, but based on their overall performance throughout each season so far I’d take him over McNabb at QB any day.

by krl97a on Jun 29, 2009 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not your point about SB wins.

I agree that Palmer is not clearly better than Romo, but based on the past 2 seasons, McNabb is, in my opinion. In another thread, I noted that Romo played worse against 2 of those 4 teams than the league average against them (more than 20% lower QB rating), slightly better against one of them (just under 10% higher QB rating than average against the Ravens), and absolutely picked apart the Giants (almost 50% higher QB rating than their average).

I think that to be considered in the top 5 QBs in the league, he needs to be significantly better than average against the top teams, and more consistent late in the season. I don’t think that it’s any secret that what lowers Romo’s value on these “best of” lists is not just the lack of playoff wins, but his inconsistent play, especially at the end of the season. Personally, I think that’s fair.

by Baked Potato Soup on Jun 29, 2009 1:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was kidding about that.

But also still underscoring a point. Romo’s numbers are better across the board. If you want to be a bottom line kind of guy, then I’m not sure why it matters how someone plays "at the end of the season" if they keep failing to win the big one. McNabb hasn’t been particularly impressive in the playoffs. Frankly I don’t see enough of a difference right now in the "clutch play" element to vault McNabb and his inferior numbers over Romo, but I suppose it’s personal preference.

In another thread, I noted that Romo played worse against 2 of those 4 teams than the league average against them (more than 20% lower QB rating), slightly better against one of them (just under 10% higher QB rating than average against the Ravens), and absolutely picked apart the Giants (almost 50% higher QB rating than their average).

Those two bad games being on the frozen tundra of Pittsburgh and the finale at the Eagles, where Romo’s entire team failed to show up. He did lead a truly impressive comeback against the Ravens though (next to last game of the season). It would have been interesting to see how radically different the finale would have been if the defense hadn’t incomprehensibly given that game away, and the Cowboys had rolled into Philly with wins over NY and Baltimore and all sorts of momentum.

by krl97a on Jun 29, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree, but...

That did not happen. Whatever the excuses, Romo plays worse in December and that is considered the stretch run in the NFL. Not just a little bit worse, either. And not just last year. Some of that can be attributed to the line or receivers, but most of that is on him. He needs to do better in December, especially if he is to be considered elite.

by Baked Potato Soup on Jun 29, 2009 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's why I don't have a problem ranking guys like Manning or Brady over him right now.

McNabb is a reach to say the least though. And the blame for the Ravens game goes on the defense. Letting a team like Baltimore score TWO long touchdowns running up the middle at the very end when your offense is taking control of the game and scoring every possession is unacceptable. Lose just ONE of those plays and the Cowboys go at least 2-2 in the brutally tough final quarter last year, and possibly better considering that momentum we spoke of.

by krl97a on Jun 29, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was kidding about that.

But also still underscoring a point. Romo’s numbers are better across the board. If you want to be a bottom line kind of guy, then I’m not sure why it matters how someone plays “at the end of the season” if they keep failing to win the big one. McNabb hasn’t been particularly impressive in the playoffs. Frankly I don’t see enough of a difference right now in the “clutch play” element to vault McNabb and his inferior numbers over Romo, but I suppose it’s personal preference.

In another thread, I noted that Romo played worse against 2 of those 4 teams than the league average against them (more than 20% lower QB rating), slightly better against one of them (just under 10% higher QB rating than average against the Ravens), and absolutely picked apart the Giants (almost 50% higher QB rating than their average).

Those two bad games being on the frozen tundra of Pittsburgh and the finale at the Eagles, where Romo’s entire team failed to show up. He did lead a truly impressive comeback against the Ravens though (next to last game of the season). It would have been interesting to see how radically different the finale would have been if the defense hadn’t incomprehensibly given that game away, and the Cowboys had rolled into Philly with wins over NY and Baltimore and all sorts of momentum.

by krl97a on Jun 29, 2009 1:09 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

on self-delete button…

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jun 29, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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