The True Area of Concern
by rioplayer7 on Jul 1, 2009 2:37 AM CDT
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I have heard way too much talk about the wide receiver position and I am ready to bring light to the true position that may break or make our season. It might live or die by the left tackle position. Flozell Adams is getting up there in age, and it is this position I believe we have absolutely no depth at. I have heard the idea of moving Leonard Davis to the position if there was a problem, but does anyone remember his days in Arizona at that position?
I think the main concern, after teams make their cuts, is to try and find a veteran that might be able to fill in. I am very concerned about this position and it will not matter who are Wrs are or even our Qb if his blindside is left to a sub par fill in. We already saw what the mess did at LG, but what happens if Flozell goes down or if his age really starts to set in?
Even looking at the opposit side, what happens if Columbo goes down. Wrs do not win Super Bowls, and it will be an extremely sub par season if one of these positions goes down. I only hope we can find some sort of depth at that position if not we might be in for a world of hurt!!!!!
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100% Agreed...
O Line is absolutely the Cowboys #1 concern this year, and it’s looking like an absolute nightmare scenario for the next 3-4 years. The ages of the projected starters by the time the playoffs roll around…
Flozell Adams – 34
Kyle Kosier – 31
Andre Gurode – 31
Leonard Davis – 31
Marc Colombo – 31
And there is already evidence that the O Line wears down late in the season…
2008 – Sacks allowed…
September – 3
October – 10 (6 on Brad Johnson)
November – 3
December – 12
2007 – Sacks allowed…
September – 6
October – 5
November – 5
December – 8
As these guys get older and older and older and the FO continues to ignore addressing the position, this is going to be a MAJOR issue for years to come.
As much as I hate to agree with an Eagles fan
You can’t argue those numbers. I think our #1 pick in next years draft absolutely has to be an LT. Even if Free shows that he is a viable replacement for Flozell, we still need a solid top OL prospect in next years draft. Hell, we probably need to draft 2-3 OL next year.
"So you can’t stiff arm at all? What about the throat?"- Marion "Barbarian" Barber
Thanks... It's really shocking how they've completely ignored the O Line
2009 – They drafted 12 players, and only took ONE offensive lineman – Robert Brewster in the 3rd round.
2008 – 6 picks, no OL.
2007 – 8 picks, and they took James Marten in the 3rd round (now on the Raiders) and Doug Free in the 4th.
2006 – 8 picks, and they took 2 OL, but waited until the 7th round to do so – tackle Pat McQuistan (has survived so far, battling for a roster spot this year) and center E.J. Whitley (out of the league)
2005 – 8 picks (and it’s hard not to like what they did in this draft), 1 OT in the 6th round – Rob Petitti (out of the league)
2004 – 8 picks, 2 OL – tackle Jacob Rogers (out of the league) in the 2nd, and guard Stephen Peterman (now on the Lions) in the 3rd.
2003 – 7 picks (and another good draft), but 1 OL – center Al Johnson (out of the league).
So in the past 7 years, they’ve drafted 9 offensive linemen. Only 3 are still with the team (for now), none start, 4 are out of the league completely, and just one is a starter in the NFL (Stephen Peterman, although it’s with the Lions). That’s crazy stuff.
I agree that we need to retool the OL
and I think we will take both avenues, FA and draft. we do need our next LT and this is the season for Free to show if he is truly capable. I think he is going to start preseason games to show what he can do against starting calibur players. that would go a long way in determining our draft and FA strategy next summer. we tried to draft a center this year, but didn’t happen. bet you it will happen next year. davis has another 3-4 years and often you can pick up a guard in FA. columbo has another 3 years left as well.
and again, you are right, LT is the biggest question mark.
by CowboysFanatic on Jul 2, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed..how do they address?
I think everyone would agree that the OL is a huge concern…so let’s address it. You have Jerry’s checkbook…who’s agent do you call? How do the Cowboys best address this need…balancing the need for starters on Sunday and young guys they are bringing up to one day grow up to be starters.
Like at WR, GM Jerry has gone Free Agency
Unlike WR, they want to draft future replacements, but have made this group up of quality FAs…to wit:
- LT Flo, 2nd round Pick, 5-time Pro Bowler, still very capable (2 productive years left)
- LG Kosier/Holland, 4th round picks, traded for Holland w/6th Round in 2010…both have 4-5 years at a high level
- C Gurode, 2nd Round Pick of Cowboys in ’02, 2-time Pro Bowler, best in league
- RG Davis, 1st Round (2nd overall), 2-time Pro Bowler, has min of 5 yrs left
- RT Colombo, 1st Round (29th overall), entering his prime…min 5yrs
Yes, we’ve sucked at drafting them, but the line “as-is” competes with any unit in the NFL. They now have their 3rd offseason working together. They’ve only played one year together and led the offense to the greatest statistical year in the history of this franchise.
So we had to get them in FA? So did Philthy. It just means that we overspent. So freakin’ what?
It's not personal, it's just business
I'm skeptical about Pro Bowl accolades
so lets take those with a grain of salt. I do agree that if they all play up to their potential, and if they all stay relatively healthy, then this is an above average offensive line. But that’s a lot of “ifs.”
I guess the results of signing serious/relatively high-profile free agent linemen pickups are spotty. There’s Marco Rivera in 2005, and we all know how that turned out. Leonard Davis has been working OK I suppose, but to me his biggest play has been that 3rd down personal foul against Mike Strahan. I don’t count Columbo since he was pretty much a reclamation project picked up off the scrap heap, and nobody really expected Kosier to be anything more than JAG. Maybe there have been or were other possible free agent linemen that deserved the team’s attention.
Agreed
The o line is a concern and they must build it through the draft because going out into free agency looking for lineman is way too expensive..Drafting brewster who I like alot is a good start.. In next aprils draft there main focus no doubt should be on the offensive line…
the one thing you won't find in FA
is LTs. teams tend to hold on and pay high dollars to keep them. eagles getting peters was a biut of a luck, with buffalo not willing to spend money and the eagles having two first round picks. if they had one, they probably wouldn’t have made the trade. guards can be found in FA a lot easier. specially those that would be servicable and good for 3-5 year period.
by CowboysFanatic on Jul 2, 2009 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Well said.
You also dont find decent LTs outside the first round of the draft. Sure, there are exceptions, but take a look at this years Pro Bowl tackles. Of the eight players one was drafted first overall (JLong), four were drafted top 10 (JThomas 3rd, CSamuels 3rd, WJones 6th, and JGross 8th), and two were drafted early 2nd round (FAdams 38th and MRoos 41st). The anomaly is JPeters who went undrafted as a Tught End.
I will be disappointed if our first pick is not an Offensive Tackle, unless of course, there is a much better player at another position of need (WR, NT, DE, S)
I couldn't agree more
I have been arguing all off season that our biggest area of need in the draft was OL and at that LT. I was so much hoping to trade up and grab one of the LTs in this deep LT draft. now, I don’t know much about brewster, but I don’t feel comfortable with him backing up adams, and we don’t get the warm and fuzzy’s from the team regarding McQ and Free.
They have Brewster listed as a Tackle.
So maybe they see him as developing into a replacement for Flo. They have Proctor listed as a Center, also, so that verifies why a lot of people thought they retained him even after his up and down year last year.
by Baked Potato Soup on Jul 1, 2009 10:40 AM CDT reply actions
I think he is a RT at best but I cant help but think he is a G.
I read no newspaper but Ritchies, and in that chiefly the advertisements, For they contain the only truths to be relied upon in a newspaper. Thomas Jefferson.
A couple of thoughts...
1. Who’s saying that the team doesn’t has at least one decent young backup?
Is that an informed opinion? Let’s look at what is believed to be “the best OLine” in the year to come.
Jason Peters. Project, played his first year at TE. Took him 3 years to play at Tackle at a high level, was the swing Tackle (RT-LT). In his 4th year the light came on and played at a really high level at LT.
Todd Herremans. Makes me think Kyle Kosier, the guy is consistently decent and his best season was last year (his 4th year).
Jamaal Jackson. Starter until his 3rd year and was only elevated to starter because Hank Fraley was playing at a pretty low level…
Stacey Andrews. Started 3 games in his 3rd year.
Doug Free sucks because he hasn’t played? It takes time to develop an OLineman.
2. Age and OLineman are 2 subjects that can hurt a player chances of playing at a great level, or not.
Let’s start with 2 of our team starters:
Andre Gurode, C. A Center capable of playing at a high level in his mid and late 30s? Just going with my memory and our team… Stepnoski in his 2nd run with our team played at a pretty good level for a couple of years in his 30s. Ray Donaldson helped our team in 95 and 96 late in his 30s and on his way to 2 Pro Bowls… Right now in the League we have: Kevin Mawae, Matt Birk, Gurode, Justin Hartwig, Olin Kreutz, Todd McClure, Shaun O’Hara, Casey Rabach, Jeff Saturday and Casey Wiegmann playing at pretty high levels in their soon, mid and late 30s… And looking around, there are a lot of guys entering their 30s (Jackson, Koppen and others)… So, is it fair to guess that Gurode will continue to play at a high level in the coming years?
Mark Colombo, T. Colombo’s indeed an interesting case, he’s entering his 9th year in the League, will be 31 in October and started 7 games in his first 5 years in the League as he battled a severe knee injury. He has very little thread in his tires, but it’s hard to know how this will affect his career as very few guys have had careers like his. But you can certainly make the case that he will be capable of mantaining a high level for some years, especially at RT.
And last, Mark Tuinei and Nate Newton were 33 and 32 in 1992 and I’m guessing that Aikman, Emmitt and Irvin weren’t complaining that 2 of their team best OLineman were old on their way to 3 SB wins…
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
Jason Peters. Project, played his first year at TE. Took him 3 years to play at Tackle at a high level, was the swing Tackle (RT-LT). In his 4th year the light came on and played at a really high level at LT.
Todd Herremans. Makes me think Kyle Kosier, the guy is consistently decent and his best season was last year (his 4th year).
Jamaal Jackson. Starter until his 3rd year and was only elevated to starter because Hank Fraley was playing at a pretty low level…
Stacey Andrews. Started 3 games in his 3rd year.
What about Shawn Andrews? His case doesn’t support your argument (which I actually slightly agree with), so you just leave him out?
Doug Free sucks because he hasn’t played? It takes time to develop an OLineman.
It’s not that he sucks. It’s that he might suck. He’s untested.
Kevin Mawae, Matt Birk, Gurode, Justin Hartwig, Olin Kreutz, Todd McClure, Shaun O’Hara, Casey Rabach, Jeff Saturday and Casey Wiegmann playing at pretty high levels in their soon, mid and late 30s…
OK, that’s 10 players. There are 32 NFL teams. So there’s roughly ONE good offensive lineman in his 30’s per every third team? Again, not to beat a dead horse, but the ENTIRE line on one team will be 31 in December.
Mark Colombo, T. Colombo’s indeed an interesting case, he’s entering his 9th year in the League, will be 31 in October and started 7 games in his first 5 years in the League as he battled a severe knee injury. He has very little thread in his tires, but it’s hard to know how this will affect his career as very few guys have had careers like his.
So a “severe knee injury” that hampered him for 5 years doesn’t count as “tread on the tires?”
And last, Mark Tuinei and Nate Newton were 33 and 32 in 1992 and I’m guessing that Aikman, Emmitt and Irvin weren’t complaining that 2 of their team best OLineman were old on their way to 3 SB wins…
Sure, those 2 guys were getting up there in age. But what about the other 3 guys along the line? I think you failed to mention Mark Stepnoski (25 years old in 92), John Gesek (29) and arguably your best offensive lineman from that era, Erik Williams (24 years old). The difference here is that the ENTIRE 2009 Cowboys O Line will be 31 or older when the playoffs roll around. Is this point that difficult to grasp?
With all our lineman in their 30's the chance of an injury on the O-line is probably over 50%
That is mainly my concern and I am not sold at our Tackle r Guard Depth
Actually...
WRs do win SuperBowls on occasion—like this past year, where Santonio Holmes and Larry Fitzgerald both had starring roles. And while obviously the O-lines in both Pittsburgh and Arizona weren’t terrible, neither were they dominant. Pittsburgh’s was the weakest part of the team, barely adequate at best.
A better truism is that a lack of WRs doesn’t handicap a team nearly as much as a hole on the O-line. Losing Flo for an extended period of time would be a major blow, but certainly not as bad as losing Romo or Ware, and I’d say it’s about on par with losing Newman, Ratliff, K.Hamlin, or even Gurode. (Witten and MBIII aren’t on the list only because their backups could start most anywhere else). NFL reality says that you’re going to lose at least one of those type of guys at some point during the season, and good coaches and teams can adjust their schemes to cover one major hole, even at LT.
by greatwhitenorth on Jul 1, 2009 12:33 PM CDT reply actions
Santonio Holmes did not win the Steelers the Super Bowl
Did you watch him at all last year. He was nowhere better than Patrick Crayton in 2007. Just because a player makes a great catch in the Super Bowl does not mean he won it for his team. See David Tyree. If the other aspects of the game had not gone that way it would not have mattered that is only one play in a 60 minute game. I said it is at the line of scrimmage where games are won and could you not say the same thing that the Steelers D-line won the game for them with Harrisons interception return?
I can not name a time when a Wr took their team to the Super Bowl and won it. I would have given you Fitzgerald, but he fell short. T.O. tried with Philly but lets remember he did not even get them there. Simpy stated WR is a way overrated position and no name players like David Tyree can step up and make huge plays. I do not care who our Wrs our I care about some depth at the O-line, because with all our players in their thirties the chance of someone being injured is well over 50%.
The OL has to be waay better than '08
Because otherwise Romo won’t have a chance. I had never seen the OL better than they were in last season’s opener agains Cleveland, and that’s where they need to be most of the time. By the end of last season, it felt like there was an opposing player about to sack Romo every single play. Unacceptable.
2009 Dallas Cowboys: 10-6
Ken Hamlin should be a concern
Pro Bowl Safety who got destroyed by LeRon McClain’s stiff arm. God that was a great game!
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
My guess
if Flo goes down we would move Columbo to LT and Bigg to RT. This is assuming Free fails to develop into a quality tackle.
I think we're more likely to just try to move bigg to LT
why mess with 2 positions? I’m not sure columbo against a superquick Dlineman will workout any better than Leonar
Why are you guys argueing with an eagles fan about whether our OLine is getting old? He's embarrassing you!
Is it really so hard to look at the team you root for and see a weakness?
Geez.
They ARE too old and this team will collapse in a couple of years if some of these recent OL picks don’t start performing.
We HAVE drafted OLinemen, by the way, it’s just that our FO has STUNK at it lately!
And as intelligent fans at this site you should be able to see that having ALL of your OLine approaching 32-35 is not good.
The OLine is the single most important unit on a football team. This is NFL 101. Heck, not even upper division: Intro to the NFL 1, no prerequisites. It determines the success of everything you do on offense AND helps the defense by being the key to sustaining drives and wearing teams down.
Why are you making a mountain out of a molehill?
One guy is “old” in football years, and that is Flo. The rest are still in their prime. I’m not seeing the great weakness you speak of. Are you looking at this year, or 4 years down the road? Are you looking at starters, or talking about depth.
Right now they have Free and Brewster (LT and LG potentially down the road), before we write off the efforts of the front office maybe we should see what happens with the 2 of them. Next year’s draft I bet we grab at least 2 more guys early in the draft.
I don’t see Bigg and Colombo or Gurode as even close to done playing yet. I’m not sure how this myth that our entire line are members of AARP started, but let’s hope it goes peacefully away.
Training Camp '09 = Mega Thunder Dome....80 men enter, 53 men leave.
Just read the Eagle's fans facts
they speak for themsleves.
I’m as sick as anyone having this pointed out by a fan of a hated team, but facts are facts.
And nothing about the OLine is a molehill (which are pains by the way, I’ve got some of those suckers)
Do you agree that the OLine is the most imp’t unit on a team?
by Realist Larry on Jul 3, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't disagree with the importance of the OL
I just disagree that it is old. The way I look at it is 4 guys still in their prime at 30 to 31, and one in decline at 34. And other than drafting one of the top LT candidates or maybe a center, I’m not sure what the front office could have done this year. FA is too expensive unless you are just going for the stopgap backup types.
Training Camp '09 = Mega Thunder Dome....80 men enter, 53 men leave.
Which facts?
Sacks in december? Sacks that can be attributed to the level of competition.
30 something year old players can’t play? 44 starters that played at good to great levels out of 160 below average, average and above average starters in the League seem to think, and make me think, otherwise…
Now, I know that Flo needs to be replaced in the really near future, Kosier and Holland won’t be resigned (unrestricted FAs next year) and I can see the other guys playing on the team for the next 2 to 4 years (especially Gurode, Centers have a long shelf life).
I’m just not that worried over what’s going to happen in the near future, because many things can happen… Maybe Joe Thomas starts a campaign about how he no longer wishes to play in Cleveland, plays like garbage in 2009 and ends up on the market in 2010… This happened for the Eagles and Cleveland is as much of a sorry franchise as Buffalo…
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
I try to schedule a couple hours each day to waste
I miss football
Training Camp '09 = Mega Thunder Dome....80 men enter, 53 men leave.
Injuries hurt our line this last year,
It’s that simple.
I think Free is ready now,
This last pre season he looked really good.
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