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Does a Super Bowl Ring make for Greatness?

Is having a ring make a QB great? After reading numerous sites, it appears many people equate a ring with greatness. Big Ben has two rings, but he was awful in his first Super Bowl, while Warner had a very good Super Bowl and did not win last year.

It took Peyton Manning numerous attempts to win a ring. He choked in college every year, they won the title the year after he left, and he gets credit for being a top 5 QB all time. His team got blasted 41-0 in the playoffs by the Jets early in his career.

Eli Manning gets a lot of credit, but the defense and that pass rush especially won them a Super Bowl. A lucky catch on a heave downfield and an easy dropped interception and he would still be a loser.

Donovan McNabb has won many playoff games, but never the big one. I don't like the Eagles, but he is a good QB. Does winning a Super Bowl make him great?

This brings me to Tony Romo. He has not played great in his two playoff appearances, but not bad either. I think there were plenty of other reasons why the Cowboys lost those games.

It took John Elway his entire career to win a Super Bowl. His last two years were not his best, but the team was better.

I have been on this site since last year, but recently signed up to be able to post. I am curious to hear what some others think about this topic.Personally, I think the QB gets too much credit or blame depending on which side they are on.

 


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Of Course....

The absence of a superbowl ring does not mean that the QB isn’t great. After all, even the best of teams lose games. The question then may come down to the lack of “clutch” players on the Cowboys roster, including the lack of a “clutch” QB. Dallas is able to produce wins, in 2007 Romo proved that and he may have done the same had he not been injured in 08.
 Unlike some people, I do not believe that clutch players are simply born with that ability. I believe that anyone with love for the game and enough determination can make plays happen when it counts. That is what Dallas needs more of…… That is what Romo, a great QB in my opnion, needs more of.

by UAECowboy on Jul 14, 2009 11:52 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Simple answer ...

… who is the greater basketball Player, Robert Horry (7 rings) or Michael Jordan (6 rings)?

by One.Cool.Customer on Jul 14, 2009 12:15 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

generally no

McNabb and Manning are two qbs who were great in their prime (Manning still is today), but they didn’t play spectacularly in the playoffs. They didn’t pick up their game and lead their team to victory like they could have. Ben, Brady and Warner always seemed to pick their game up in January, which is unbelievably impressive considering how hard Defenses play in the playoffs.

To put eli ahead of Romo based on a four game stretch (when hes played worse than tony in his other three games) is just crazy imo.

by foyesboys on Jul 14, 2009 12:30 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The answer is absolutely no

because SB rings makes teams great, not players. Individual players, espeically qbs, get way too much credit for being on championship teams.

Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jim McMahan, Jim Plunkett, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams and Mark Rypien were all SB winning qbs, however, are any of them better than HOFers Dan Marino, Dan Fouts, Fran Tarkenton, Jim Kelly or Warren Moon??

I think we all know the answer to that question which is the same answer to your question Einstein.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Jul 14, 2009 12:53 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I feel like Brady and Ben

are exceptions to this. Yes, they’ve had great defenses,but neither had anything resembling elite (or even good) weapons in their passing game yet thats 5 superbowl in large part on the back of the qb (though the pats did have dillon a year and the bus closed games out for the 2005 steelers. Still, when Deion Branch, Randle El, and Holmes are the best receivers, i think it says something about the qb). Do the pats and steelers have great Ds? sure they did, but they stil needed to score quite a few points to win plenty of those games.

I think this will become more of the norm with all the rule changes benefiting the passing game. It just can’t be concidence that 5 of the last 8 have been won in large part due to qb play on the offensive side of he ball.

by foyesboys on Jul 14, 2009 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The answer is absolutely YES!

Look, I know the Marino and Elrod arguments make for good fodder, but they are the exceptions that prove the rule.

Whose a better QB? Aikman or Steve Young or Brett Favre or Jim Kelly?

Montana or Boomer or Marino or Elway?

Staubach or White or Fran Tarkenton?

There are good QBs and there are great QBs. Great QBs make their whole teams better and win…no matter what. Great QBs are defined by their championships (whether fair or not).

Does that mean a QB that wins a championship is automatically a great QB? Of course not. (too many to list) But not winning one does bring up a major stumbling block for most QBs.

It's not personal, it's just business

by Fighter15 on Jul 14, 2009 1:30 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

absolutely false

Marino, Fouts, Tarkenton, Kelly and Moon were all great HOF qbs who did make their teams better but still don’t have a ring, wanna know why??

QBs don’t play defense or ST for that matter. Teams win SBs, not QBs or indivdual players.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Jul 14, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Inane argument

It’s simply way too subjective. All the above were QBs that at least won NFC/AFC Champions, had less-than-dynasty talent and are noted exceptions to the rule.

But the question lies in what your definition of great is. I consider Baugh, Montana, Staubach, Elrod, Brady, and Aikman are great QBs that were also great passers. Tarkinton, Marino, Favre, Young and Kelly were great passers that were decent QBs. On the other hand, Bradshaw, Stabler, Unitas, Gifford, et al, were great QBs that were just decent passers.

Whether you like it or not, the coaches and QBs are the only NFLers judged by their wins and losses.

Danny White (until recently) held every passing record for the Cowboys. But in any debate, he would finish 4th or 5th in the franchise heirarchy behind Staubach, Aikman, Merrideth, and maybe even Romo. Are they ALL great? If so, you have a lower threshold than I.

It's not personal, it's just business

by Fighter15 on Jul 14, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

my point is that QBs shouldn't be judged by wins or losses

Coaches, yes, because they are responsible for all aspects of the team, offense, defense and ST.

Last time I checked QBs don’t have anything to do with defense or ST which comprise 2/3 of the team so to judge them by wins and losses is ridiculous and makes no sense. It’s a media driven concept and that’s all it is.

For the record, Danny White was a great NFL qb, he simply didn’t play on teams that had the defenses Staubach and Aikman had.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Jul 14, 2009 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My last on this...

Fair or unfair, the statistic is kept for only Coaches and QBs.

I’ll agree that your standard of great differs greatly different than mine (pun intended).

I’ve seen few great QBs. Fortunately, in my lifetime, I’ve seen two of my Top 10 play for the Cowboys.

It's not personal, it's just business

by Fighter15 on Jul 14, 2009 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Romo has a better win-loss record than Eli

so is he better?

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jul 14, 2009 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly

lets not be rediculous and say those guys aren’t great.

i mean the bills are a great example.
getting to 4 super bowls in a row is greatness. its dissappointing that the bills couldnt take a victory, but technically being 2nd best 4 years in a row is DAMN good.

by fuji1232 on Jul 14, 2009 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

NO ONE

will remember the REASON a team failed to win in the post-season whe it comes time to recant history. But they will remember that the team LOST. The QB (and sometimes the Coach) will get ‘loser’ labels until they win.

It really is a simple, if barbaric, formula that won’t change just because we want to insert our own fanlogic into the discussion.

This is Romo’s cross to bear, and largely his alone.

"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Jul 14, 2009 4:55 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It's okay

We kind of benefitted from it during the Aikman era since his numbers were never gaudy.

"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Jul 16, 2009 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

romo is a "star"

Romo is a popular QB and gets alot of media attention. He is a big story and plays for a big name team. He is exciting and blah blah blah.

With that comes the hype and pressure and all the responsibility to handle it.

The worst part is being a fan and have to listen to the unfair analysis and lame statistics of not winning a playoff game and choke-artist.

I definitely agree with Terry too, its a team sport. He isn’t gonna win it by himself.

by fuji1232 on Jul 14, 2009 6:37 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think where I draw the line is

Can a guy be a great QB without a SB? Yes. There’s no logic behind any other argument. The whole “carry your team” and “will them to win” sound great on an NFL films sound bite, but they don’t mean much because the QB is one player of 53 and there are far too many examples of that not being the case. Big Ben1, Dilfer, Eli, and a host of others were along for the ride. Others like Big Ben2, Young, Aikman and Staubach were partners in a great team. Some guys really have been the most important player – Montana for example. What does that say about greatness? Not much. To boil it down to one example, Warren Moon will always be superior to Eli Manning.

And Elway is the case study. It isn’t coincidence that he suddenly became capable of winning the SB once his team found a RB and a defense. Had he never won he would have been exactly the same leader, same QB with the same “will to win”. Warren Moon on the Cowboys of the early 90s? He’s sporting rings too.

Can a guy be a HOF without a SB win? Only if he matched numbers with Dan Marino. This violates my rule to be rational in favor of being empirical. In other words, I’m accepting reality. Most players either have to set THE record or win one or more SBs. And I can’t gripe too much about that. The line is pretty hard to draw as it is. So I look at it as a hole in the resume. You are left not knowing whether he could have under other circumstances.

The fairest measure of an individual player are his stats. Even those have other dependencies, but they give you an idea. Championships measure teams because they are simply too difficult to win and one guy has no shot of being the single reason for winning or losing, even at the critical position of QB.

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jul 14, 2009 6:47 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I second that

Your take applies well to Romo (great QB statistically, but not a HOF QB – yet) but does not answer the endless Manning vs Brady threads on Stampede Blue and the Pats Pulpit.

by One.Cool.Customer on Jul 17, 2009 2:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's also the whole "Bad QB on a good team with a ring" scenario

I wouldn’t call Brad Johnson or Trent Dilfer great at all. They still have rings.

At the end of the day, and I know it’s been said already, SB rings belong to great TEAMS. An individual can be below average and still manage to win a Super Bowl because of the team around him. Also, a player can be above average and fail to win, thanks primarily to the quality of the team around him.

Romo will get one, I’m fairly confident. The team around him is too talented to continue to fail. It might not come this year, but I have all the faith in the world it will at one point or another. Sooner than later.

Epic Fail since 1985

by the red scare on Jul 14, 2009 7:12 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.

by dunkman on Jul 14, 2009 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Give Johnson and Dilfer their due...

They were heady enough to allow their team to play to its strengths and keep them in position to win.

It’s when players in their position try to do too much that the roof caves in.

Those players were not surrounded by the offensive talent that a Romo has around him and yet, they found a way to win the big game.

One thing I know about playing QB; the best pass in a football contest can often times be the one the QB decided not to throw.

"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Jul 16, 2009 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have a feeling next year many will have a different opinion about Romo. Some may think he is lucky, but I expect this year to be his most effective and finally end that streak of not winning a playoff game.

My favorite semi pro teams are the Eagles and Giants

by RealAlbertEinstein on Jul 14, 2009 7:47 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I do too

The third full year for a QB is often the defining moment, no matter what came before.

It's not personal, it's just business

by Fighter15 on Jul 14, 2009 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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