The Wade Fade: Can He Get the Cowboys a Win in the Playoffs?
by Jim Vance on Jul 8, 2009 6:00 AM CDT
in General
84 comments
Wade Phillips has had four chances to win a playoff game as a head coach. He's 0 for 4. Is he cursed or is he lacking as a coach? To win a playoff game you have to make it to the post-season first and that means you have to win more games than you lose. I want to compare Wade's record against past Cowboy coaches to see if he is the right guy to even get us into the show.
Cowboys coaches have included the notorious hard case Duane Charles Parcells, the mercurial James William Johnson, the stoic Thomas Wade Landry and now the soft and cuddly Harold Wade Phillips. Which coach has been the most successful over the span of the coach's careers during the NFL regular season?
I took a look at the winning percentages of the four coaches over the span of their years as a head coach. A partial season will count as a full season in regards to winning percentage as a head coach. For example, Phillips was with the Saints for four games 1985, his one win gives him a .250 winning percentage as a head coach that season. I will include every team the coach represented, in Phillips' case, New Orleans, Buffalo, Denver, Atlanta and Dallas.
Make the jump.
| Coach | Years as HC | Games | Win | Loss | Ties | Winning % |
|
Phillips |
9 |
119 |
70 |
49 |
0 |
.588 |
|
Parcells |
19 |
303 |
172 |
130 |
1 |
.570 |
|
Johnson |
9 |
144 |
80 |
64 |
0 |
.556 |
|
Landry |
29 |
418 |
250 |
162 |
6 |
.607 |
In the regular season, Wade is in good company, finishing second to the great Tom Landry among Cowboy coaches with at least 9 years as an NFL head coach. It would appear that Wade can get us to the playoffs, can he get us through the playoffs?
Landry, Johnson and Parcells have all won Super Bowls, Phillips has yet to win a playoff game. Let's take a quick look at those four playoff losses.
Three of Wade's four playoff appearances have been in wild card games. In 1993 as coach of the Denver Broncos, Phillips met the Raiders and Art Shell in the Coliseum. The Raiders had a come from behind victory over Phillip's Broncos the week before, and trounced the Broncos 42 to 24 in that wild card game.
In 1998, Philips coached the Bills to the wild card spot and faced the Miami Dolphins, led by Jimmy Johnson. The Dolphins forced 5 turnovers but Buffalo rallied and fought back. Late in the fourth quarter the Bills drove to Miami's one yard line behind by a score of 24 - 14. The Bill's receiver Andre Reed was flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct and Buffalo had to settle for a field goal. Buffalo recovered the onside kick and drove to Miami's five yard line. The Bill's QB Doug Flutie was hit making a throw, fumbled for the fifth turnover, and Miami won 24 to 17. (You were probably watching the playoff game later that same day in Texas Stadium. Troy Aikman was sacked four times and threw three interceptions during a loss to the Cardinals.)
The next year, 1999, Wade returned to the playoffs with another wild card spot against the Titans. This game is known in Nashville as The Music City Miracle. This is the playoff game where Wade Phillips' Buffalo Bills drove down and kicked a 41-yard field goal to pull ahead of Tennessee with 16 seconds left to play. The Bills kicked off and their stingy defense only had to hold on for a couple of plays to win, however, there was a controversial across the field lateral on that kickoff and Tennessee ran the ball 75 yards for a touchdown and the win. Bruce DeHaven, the 13-year Buffalo special teams coach was fired after the season. Phillips was roundly criticized for benching Doug Flutie in place of Rob Johnson. Flutie led the team to the post-season but was inexplicably benched before the playoffs.
In 2007, Phillips coached the Cowboys to a first-seed playoff position in which the Giants, twice defeated in the regular season, came to Texas Stadium. The Cowboys led halfway through the third quarter. Dallas penalties kept Giant drives alive and Dallas' penalties killed their own drives. The game ended in the final minutes with the Cowboys driving for a win, and Romo being intercepted in the end zone. The Giants went on to win the Super Bowl. This was Wade's fourth playoff loss.
A coach's job is to get his team prepared and in a position to win the game. Does Wade Phillips deserve to get the blame for those playoff losses?
The bigger question: Can he get the Cowboys a win in the playoffs?
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First
time for everything. Wade will do it this season.
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
by dunkman on Jul 8, 2009 6:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
There are also some philosophical issues here
All cliches aside, if you can win in the regular season, you can win in the post season. It doesn’t mean you will, but there is absolutely no logic behind this idea that suddenly everything changes and guys just can’t handle it. The guys who can’t handle the pressure never got a day in the NFL let alone head coaching an NFL team. The real issue is that teams are better and play harder in the playoffs and your chances go down dramatically. It’s simply harder and there are fewer opportunities to do it. Just read how Wade “didn’t get it done”. Did he call Flutie’s fumble? Did he blow the referee’s call?
Second, Troy never threw three picks in a game. In fact, only Tony Romo has ever thrown picks in a Dallas uniform. It’s a proven fact. Look it up.
Third, they have ties?? Seriously???
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
by dunkman on Jul 8, 2009 6:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
According to Pro-Football-Reference
Aikman went 22/49 for 191 yards with 1TD and 3 Ints.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199901020dal.htm
Cadel Evans:
2007=2nd 2008=2nd... 2009=1st?
by aussie_cowboy on Jul 8, 2009 7:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think if you read his 2nd point carefully
you’ll see he was employing a bit of underhanded sarcasm. But he had me scranbling for the stats for a while there as well :-)
by One.Cool.Customer on Jul 8, 2009 7:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have to read Dunk carefully..
he has a wicked sense of humor.
“In fact only Tony Romo has ever thrown picks in a Dallas uniform.”
That one was for all the pear-shaped, Bimbo dating, best QB haters to never win a playoff game readers!
"He has a peculiar felicity of expression." John Adams
by Jim Vance on Jul 8, 2009 7:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Romo is no Henson
never will be.
A pessimist’s blood type is always b-negative
by CounterEMF on Jul 8, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As in Drew?
…?
2009 Dallas Cowboys: 10-6
by Grady90 on Jul 8, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes sir
Sarcasm… aimed at Tex.
A pessimist’s blood type is always b-negative
by CounterEMF on Jul 8, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right, he's no Henson.
He never designed a whole set of puppets with their own show that have made untold millions of dollars.
Oh, you meant Drew. ;-)
by mdlusk on Jul 9, 2009 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't agree that the playoffs are no different than the regular season
I have absolutely no data or statistics to back me up but I think you’re wrong. Good teams seems to be able to take it up a notch to me. If you don’t, you lose. Dallas beat the Giants twice in 07 but the Giants not only beat the Cowboys but regrouped and won the whole thing. The Cardinals faded badly down the stretch last year and picked back up in the playoffs.
by StillHateTheGiants on Jul 8, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
playoffs are different from regular season
in that a) you start with all good teams and b) lesser teams are removed from the pool as the playoffs proceed. Playoff W/L records are therefore going to tend to be worse than regular season W/L. For example, last year only 4 of the 12 playoff teams had winning playoff W/L records for the year.
by eliason on Jul 8, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand what you are saying, but in many ways you are making my point
First, it’s a logical fallacy to use the result to prove the cause without any other evidence. Of course by winning teams prove that they can win. But that does not mean covnersely that teams that did not win CANNOT win, only that they did not win. The Cards are a great example of that. They had trouble winning games during parts of the season and yet made it to the SB. You can’t say that there is something magical that happened to that team just because the calendar and circumstances changed. They began playing better for the last four games of the season. Dallas played well the first four games and faltered after that. Those things didn’t happen because people are “winners” or “losers”. They happened for myriad reasons – injuries, confidence, people understanding a system or becoming more proficient at their jobs, etc.
That’s really all I’m saying. Teams, players and coaches, at this level in partcular, are all capable of winning under the right circumsatnces and losing under other circumstances. The fact that Wade has performed well in 40 years of coaching is much more important to judging him as a coach than whether in the very few shots he’s had in the playoffs he has not had as much success.
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
by dunkman on Jul 8, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are you kiddin' me?
Celebrity or Imposter?
YOU Decide...
http://www.xanga.com/metaltometal/689036052/celebrity-or-imposter/
by silverblue5 on Jul 8, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're talking about PLAYOFFS?!
When you consider the circumstances of each game individually, it’s hard to lay the blame at Wade’s feet. But conversely, there are coaches that seem to excel in such situations. Jimmy Johnson was one of ’em. The attitude those Cowboys teams had came in no small part from the motivational genius of Jimmy.
This will be Wade’s year. He’s due, he’s deserving, and he’s got the right guys to do it.
Tar Heels = National Champs in Basketball ... #1 in Baseball ... Top 10 this year in Football?
by DalaiLuke on Jul 8, 2009 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Son of Bum
has got one coming, for sure.
Make it this year, Lod.
Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.
by OskieOskie on Jul 8, 2009 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the more important question
Is can jason garret coach this offense to a playoff win. I’ve heard it all off season how injuries hurt this team on offense.however, with the exception of the romo injury(b/c brad johnson was terrible)we should have gotten the job done with the people we had. were we that different a team because of injuries in the 44 to 6 whipping by the eagles?doubt it.what we were was out coached. We were outcoached not because the eagles had so much success with their blitzes early,but rather because we didn’t make adjustments later. Good coaches know how to stop the bleeding. And last season Garret couldn’t find his stich kit.
by da universe's team on Jul 8, 2009 7:25 AM CDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
you underestimate the absense of the Cat
Not having Felix really crippled this offense the second half of the season.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jul 8, 2009 7:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
boys went 13-4 without the Cat in 2007
by McLovin9 on Jul 8, 2009 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Truly irrelevant statistic there
We went 0-11-1 without him in 1960
Cadel Evans:
2007=2nd 2008=2nd... 2009=1st?
by aussie_cowboy on Jul 8, 2009 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is relevant
The 07 team was basically the same team as the 08 team
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
by Seanrude on Jul 8, 2009 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It doesnt show that the loss of Felix didnt hurt the offense
Therefore it is irrelevant
Cadel Evans:
2007=2nd 2008=2nd... 2009=1st?
by aussie_cowboy on Jul 8, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
doube negatives are hard for me to follow until I have had many more cups of coffee, but if the team went 13-3 without Felix, why would losing Felix cripple them?
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
by Seanrude on Jul 8, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because they had Julius Jones
as a speed threat in the backfield. It’s not really so much Felix per se, it’s the element of speed out of the backfield that makes defenses play you differently.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jul 8, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
just so I understand, Julius in 07 was roughly equivalent to Felix in 08?
Do you think losing Julius in 07 to injury would have crippled the Cowboys?
I think it was the degradation of o line play in 08 versus 07 that hurt the team more, but I see your point
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
by Seanrude on Jul 8, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
as far as being a threat to take it to the house
on any given carry yes, although Felix is even more explosive than JJ and obviously a much better overall RB who can also run between the tackles.
The OL wasn’t as good in 2008 as you pointed out, but I think if we didn’t have JJ as a speed threat in 2007, yes, our offense wouldn’t have been as effective.
You can’t discount the speed element, thats why the RBs who run the really fast 40s at the combine are drafted higher than the slower backs.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jul 8, 2009 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your reaching
Our offenses demise had to do with our line play and injuries to them. That was the difference between the years. Choice was not felix but he was as productive as julius.
We lost because we had no commitment to the run and injuries to oline.
I read no newspaper but Ritchies, and in that chiefly the advertisements, For they contain the only truths to be relied upon in a newspaper. Thomas Jefferson.
by squidlo97 on Jul 8, 2009 9:16 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think so
Choice can’t take it to the house like Julius or Felix. Just look at the Steelers game for example.
Choice catches a swing pass from Romo and has nothing but frozen tundra ahead of him for a TD which ultimately would win the game for us, but he gets caught from behind and we have to settle for a FG.
That’s just one example, there are certainly many more.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jul 9, 2009 7:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but they also had Julius Jones
and you can say what you want about JJ, the guy had the speed to take any carry to the house and defenses knew it.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jul 8, 2009 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can buy into part of this
Jim Johnson has outcoached a whole cast of OCs and HCs, including “Suddenly Hall of Fame Material” Tom Coughlin in the playoffs last year. Not much shame in that freakin defensive genius getting the better of you.
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
by dunkman on Jul 8, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Overestimating the Cat
You have got to be kidding me. You are saying that the loss of Felix is why the Boy’s faltered in the second half? The young man was a rookie and his loss was well covered by another rookie, Choice.
It is true that Felix is a big play waiting to happen. It makes for exciting football, but I hope that the Cowboys are never a team that has to rely on big plays to beat other teams. I want them to be like the teams of the 90’s. They play solid football and just beat you because they are better.
Garrett needs to own the blame. Good coaches make good adjustments. No excuses. You use the tools that you have to maximize your potential. If anything, I would say that Garrett didn’t know what to do because he hadn’t spent enough time evaluating the players that filled in for other injured players. He didn’t know what he had to work with and so he kept his schemes too simple and predictable.
Compare last year’s work of the two coaches, Garrett and Wade. The defense had holes and so Wade made adjustments. Afterward, the defense was stellar except for a few major blips. Garrett never had an answer to fix the problems on offense.
by FanSince72 on Jul 8, 2009 7:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not kidding you
Choice covered up for MB3’s loss, not the Cat. When Felix went down, defenses didn’t have to worry about our running game at all because we had no speed in the backfield. MB3 and Choice are very good backs, but teams certainly don’t fear them taking any run to the house.
When the Cat is playing, teams have to play our offense honest and when he was out, it allowed defenses to shrink the field on us and therefore, made it much more difficult for Romo and passing game to be effective.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jul 8, 2009 7:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
have to disagree
While it is true that defenses would have to account for jones whenever he’s on the field,that’s no reason for the O to fall flat on their face. Im a huge fan of jones( glad our defense doesn’t have to stop him), but without the cat we still had TO(1052 yds, 10tds three games being thrown to by Sad Johnson),all pro j wit,roy williams(just as a #2 receiver),sure handed patrick crayton(playoff loss to ny excluded),t.choice (who carved up 3 of the top 5 defenses), and the biggest offensive line since the greek mythology titans played the olympic gods in Greece Bowl IV. And you tell me we can’t get it down without rookie f.jones?not buying it….50% blame to Garret. Sorry.
by da universe's team on Jul 8, 2009 8:56 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I'm telling you we needed speed in the backfield and had none without the Cat
Defenses can play offenses entirely different without that element.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jul 8, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
losing a rookie that was getting limited touches did not change our offense considerably...
nor did any defense scheme differently because they didn’t have to worry about Felix getting 7 touches. Just no basis for this line of thought.
Tar Heels = National Champs in Basketball ... #1 in Baseball ... Top 10 this year in Football?
by DalaiLuke on Jul 8, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wellll
remember that Dallas’ system had become a two-back system – one mauler and one sprinter, and then Barber got injured. I think if you state it as “the Dallas running game was missing key performers” it would be more accurate. As well as Choice did, Dallas wanted two backs and had one.
But where Dallas lost the season was on the offensive line between Procter and a winged Flo, they were lucky to win the games they did.
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
by dunkman on Jul 8, 2009 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Just having Flo back healthy and KK back period should make this team win another couple of games. Also, don’t underestimate playing the AFC West this year, as opposed to the AFC North. Heck, we almost got beat by Cincinnati last year.
The OLine is the number one reason for the losses last year. Then Romo’s injury, then Felix’s injury. We definitely did miss Felix’s speed though, and that’s why I’ve been calling for a speed guy for teh #2 WR spot since Terry Glenn went down.
by mdlusk on Jul 9, 2009 1:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cat
Wasn’t here in ’07 and they went 13-3…hard to blame the slide at the end of last year on his absence…but why let facts get in the way
by TLCM on Jul 8, 2009 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i bet
if our o line played last year like it did in 07,
we would have went 13-3 again
by CowboysFan4Life on Jul 8, 2009 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we had Julius Jones
he provided the speed element out of the backfield
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jul 8, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Terrry,
are you saying if it is third down and two at the forty yard line that the safeties (for example) will play deeper with Jones in the game as opposed to Choice or Barber?
by jevans1729 on Jul 8, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's exactly what I'm saying
safeties will respect the Cat’s speed, they won’t respect MB3’s or Choices because they know those backs won’t break a huge run on them for a TD.
You can’t dismiss the speed element from the backfield, it makes all the difference in the world as to how a defense plays an offense.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jul 8, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't buy that
Terry, I agree, a speedy rb helps an offense be more effective. However, you don’t have to have a speedy rb to have an effective offense. I can list many that are very effective w/ no speed in the backfield, including the Boys of the 90s. Not having Felix isn’t reason to get blasted 44-6.
We weren’t ready to play that day. Not sure if the coaches are to blame or the players, most likely both.
Check out my movie - StandardsOfEthicalConduct.com
by cowboysuberfan on Jul 8, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say not having Felix was the reason we lost to the Eagles
I’m saying not having Felix really hurt the effectiveness of our offense last season. It allowed defenses to attack us in many more ways and thats just a fact.
With a healthy Cat this season, our offense will be much, much better.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jul 8, 2009 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you
are giving Felix a lot more credit than he deserves. What you are saying is a strategic faux pas for a defensive coordinator. In essence, you are saying that a D coordinator will potentially sacrifice a first down or possible fioeld goal attempt (depending on which forty the team is on) because they are afraid that Felix will break a long run? Sorry, but they didn’t do that even for Barry Sanders.
While speed will surely help an overall offense, down and distance will determine where the safties will play, not a fear of Felix.
by jevans1729 on Jul 8, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes I agree but...
When your cooking and your stove breaks, you can’t do the same things on a hotplate.
by dallasfansince75 on Jul 8, 2009 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Norv Turner could get over the hump, then WP can
does that mean it will happen this year is what remains to be seen.
Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!
by cowboy78 on Jul 8, 2009 8:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Exactly!
Anyone who has shown that they can coach and win in the NFL can get over the hump. A team is a system – ownership, management, players, coaching staff, and course, chance plays a role in everything that happens – injuries, mistakes, fluke plays, etc. Trying to pin this on individuals is an exercise in illogical thinking.
The idea that only a certain elite can win in the playoffs is akin to relying on “fate”; it’s a myth propagated by sports-entertainment types but it’s just an old wives’ tale, disproved constantly but never questioned. Dan Marino didn’t win a SB. Is he therefore not a good QB? Trent Dilfer was a plodder by any stretch of the imagination, and Doug WIlliams was OK, but never excellent; Warren Moon and Drew Brees are 10 times the QBs. But Trent and Doug happened to be on winning teams. Brian Billick is unemployed and never made it back to anywhere close to the SB. P Manning couldn’t get it done. Before he did it. Dallas led by Roger were “chokers” in the 70s. Until they weren’t. It goes on and on and on.
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
by dunkman on Jul 8, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mostly agree dunk, but...
I think playoff performance by coaches is overstated. Talent and luck are big factors.
However, the playoffs are a high pressure situation, and some people perform better than others under intense pressure. Part of a coach’s performance is getting his players ready for that pressure. Wouldn’t that mean that some coaches could do well in the regular season but not as well in the post season?
I can see some coaches being more able to get their players to raise their level of play in the playoffs. It seemed like Jimmy Johnson’s teams always played better in the playoffs than they did during the regular season.
Also, I would think there might be a strategic element to coaching in that you might hold back some things during the regular season to catch a team off guard in the postseason.
Check out my movie - StandardsOfEthicalConduct.com
by cowboysuberfan on Jul 8, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those are fair points
and there may be guys who are better motivators. But given the nature of today’s game, every week is a high pressure game because the fans and media are relentless and coaches face the same scrutiny and berating whether it’s week 1 or 20. Jimmy did well in post-season, but not always. His record when he had Troy, Michael, and Emmitt (and a really good o-line) was vastly better than when he had Miami’s talent. And Bill Parcells won exactly as many playoff games as Wade during his tenure with Dallas.
If i had to conjecture about why Dallas has failed late in the season, it would have to transcend players and coaches since none of them have been with the team anywhere close to the length of the drought. I’d probably lay it on poor draft / FA philosophy for a portion of that time frame, leading to (1) no franchise QB between Troy and Tony (2) Poor draft picks for the o-line, squandering huge cap room for FAs (3) Poor secondary draft picks (4) Mediocre LB corps.
I like Jerry Jones, but I think he has been paying the price for his early success and resulting hubris and is only now getting back to the basics of drafting smart and cutting back on high-profile, lower pay-off players.
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
by dunkman on Jul 8, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Parcell’s drafts weren’t always the best, but I do think JJ learned something about personnel evaluation from him and how to organize his draft department. I think things are looking up from that perspective.
"Everybody wants something but nobody wants to pay the price" - Michael Irvin
by 24Hz on Jul 8, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It sure looks like it
and I have hopes that son Stephen has the right outlook, from what little I hear…
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
by dunkman on Jul 8, 2009 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
An don't get me started on Deion...
He says that the boys will go 8 – 8 because they have know elite reciever, an in the same breath the Giants will win 12 games and second place in the east. Who do the Giants have at reciever?
by dallasfansince75 on Jul 8, 2009 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
barber
MBIII, while no blazer, has pretty good speed and is underrated in this regard. Didn’t he have a 90 yard TD reception last year? He’s no Cat obviously, but I hate it when people say MBIII is slow. This isn’t all about speed, but MBIII was as much of a threat to take it to the house as JJ was. JJ SUCKED, didn’t have great straight line speed (he was more of a quick guy), and never once broke a tackle in 07.
by blee on Jul 8, 2009 11:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
that simply not true at all
MB3 was never a threat to take it to the house like JJ was. JJ might not have been a great between the tackles RB, but he could run much faster than MB3, thats not even debatable at all.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jul 8, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
uh
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=5568
2007: JJ’s longest run was 25 yard. Yep, TWENTY FIVE.
Barber’s? 54.
JJ being super fast is a myth. Remember that video of his highlights from his rookie year? How many times did he get caught from behind in that? JJ, besides his rookie year, was a quite terrible RB.
by blee on Jul 8, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
JJs 77 yard run in 2006
had to be the team’s longest run since Dorsett (I refuse to count Hambrick’s 80 yard fluke in 2001)
Brotha also had two 190+ games, and 100 yards in his only playoff game.
He wasn’t too shabby.
by DavidH22 on Jul 8, 2009 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's not a myth, it is a fact
I agree he’s not a great RB because he’s not a good between the tackles runner, but there is no denying his speed.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jul 9, 2009 7:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Julius was not a good runningback...
but he had speed.
it was weird, I... I mean you probably didn't hear about it because I went under the name of Mike Honcho. But I just wanted you to know that. If you can hear me, if it got into your brain somehow. That I spread my buttcheeks as Mike Honcho.
by AirforceBat on Jul 9, 2009 7:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not dismissing the speed factor
But, the argument can be made that even without “speed” you should get the job done. Look, in the nfl the difference between great and good sometimes is as simple as talent. However, when two teams are pretty equally matched (like the eagles and boys last game)the difference is in game planning and adjustments. We were OUT COACHED plain and simple! If you think about who we had out there minus el gato, we still had more fire power that at least 20 other teams! Not all garrets fault but about 50%….
by da universe's team on Jul 8, 2009 11:41 AM CDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Speed is a nice to have, not a must have
Now, good offensive line play…there’s a must have. Its hard to say whether the breakdowns were due to player performance or poor coaching. Garrett has to be on line for some of the blame.
Check out my movie - StandardsOfEthicalConduct.com
by cowboysuberfan on Jul 8, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Emmitt was not the fastest guy, he just made people miss
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
by Seanrude on Jul 8, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Emmitt was faster than you think
The guy could take it to the house on any given play and did so quite a few times.
MB3 and Choice simply cannot do that, they’ll get caught every single time.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jul 8, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but he always juked the last guy chasing him out of his cleats
He had a long run against the skins, and the last guy chasing him was Darrell Green. There is no way he outran Green, he just made him miss
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
by Seanrude on Jul 8, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Emmitt had
the best vision and awareness of any back I’ve ever seen. He had other things obviously, balance, toughness, determination. But the vision was amazing. And that’s the part of Smith I see in Choice.
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
by dunkman on Jul 8, 2009 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Choice is an exceptional back ...
He’s currently buried in the third spot, but given the wear that Barber takes, I’m hoping Garrett finds a way to get Choice regular touches. A healthy powerful Barber could help break out December swoon.
Tar Heels = National Champs in Basketball ... #1 in Baseball ... Top 10 this year in Football?
by DalaiLuke on Jul 9, 2009 1:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
~~ break OUR December swoon
Imagine having any ONE of these guys on the teams of 7-8 years ago.
Tar Heels = National Champs in Basketball ... #1 in Baseball ... Top 10 this year in Football?
by DalaiLuke on Jul 9, 2009 1:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard Tash on Sirius this morning
Good interview. He talked about the ability of the three backs and listed his as having a knack for running between the tackles. He also said the team was going to use all three backs more and not just running, but in more roles. He also said that although the team would still take shots downfield, they will be working on how to run more effectively, looking at the blocking schemes. etc.
Then Theismann came on to say that Dallas was the only team that didn’t improve itself and that Jason Campbell would be a Pro-Bowler this season. Of course, he talked on and on without ever saying anything – the Cowboys were worse because they lost TO but the Giants will be better because they lost both veteran WRs and drafted rookies; Philly will be better because Donovan and Westy will be healthy (as opposed to O-line changes, etc.); Haynesworth will take the Redskins over the hump and make Campbell better.
Now I can’t stomach breakfast, so thanks Joe.
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
by dunkman on Jul 9, 2009 6:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we all know Theismann is a moron
I’ll still never forget him saying during the ’89 draft that we should draft Tony Mandrich over Troy.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jul 9, 2009 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
barber
MBIII is faster than you think and JJ is slower than you think, people.
Felix is also slower than you think, it’s the sudden acceleration that makes him special. Remember how Stanback caught up to him? Felix gets caught from behind in many of his college highlights.
by blee on Jul 8, 2009 5:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That's a little bit hazy.
I remember having this discussion with someone before we even drafted Felix.
This “he got caught from behind in college” is right, but he was never caught behind because of his lack of speed.
The only time I ever say him actually caught from behind was when someone was in front of him and he had to slow down to make a cut. It’s not like he was out in the open running free and someone caught him from behind.
it was weird, I... I mean you probably didn't hear about it because I went under the name of Mike Honcho. But I just wanted you to know that. If you can hear me, if it got into your brain somehow. That I spread my buttcheeks as Mike Honcho.
by AirforceBat on Jul 9, 2009 7:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be honest
I sort of got lost between who was faster than they looked and who was slower than I thought. I’m thinking about asking One.Cool.Customer to do a spreadsheet for me…
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
by dunkman on Jul 9, 2009 8:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No spreadsheet required ...
Combine 40 yards times:
Julius Jones: ……4.51 – May not be able to handle the pounding of being an every down back but .. is an explosive ball carrier
Marion Barber: …..4.49 – Has a smooth style and plays faster than he looks on film. Also does a solid job catching the ball.
Felix Jones:……….4.47 – Excellent speed and quickness…Elusive in the open field…Plays much faster than his timed speed
Tashard Choice: ..4.52 – Exceptional aggressiveness, vision and instinct to make up for his less than impressive speed.
Quotes from SI.com and KFFL draft analysis.
Others: Adrian Peterson 4.40, Darren McFadden 4.33, Chris Johnson 4.24 (all-time combine best)
by One.Cool.Customer on Jul 9, 2009 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice!
But spreadsheets always lend an air of logic and scientific analysis, especially when the columns magically multiply and divide. Like putting glasses on a really dumb guy – they just instantly look smarter.
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
by dunkman on Jul 9, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guarantee MB3 wasn't running a 4.49 last season
after spraining his big toe.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Jul 9, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The longer the issue exists, the bigger a pychological hurdle it becomes.....
The late 80s Broncos could never win the SB
The late 80s Browns could never beat the Broncos in the playoffs
And the best example for us: the early 90s Bills could not win the SB
The Broncos couldn’t do it until they had remade the entire team and a decade had past
The Bills could have one their first SB – that was highly competitive. But by the time we played them, you could see it in their eyes as the game slipped away – “here we go again”. They had incredible resilience to get to the SB 4 years in a row – but there their resilience failed.
This team’s inability to win in December / post-season goes back to Big Bill. But hiring a Coach that had the same issue historically hasn’t helped. Now Romo has been linked (fairly or unfairly) to those late season failures.
This creates a MUCH larger hurdle for this team to overcome. I worry that Wade simply doesn’t have the psychological skills to get himself over this hump, much less the whole team. I don’t sense Romo’s natural style helps him with this. Neither does Ware’s or Roy’s or MB3’s. I really hope these guys can find a way to collectively lead this team to a playoff win. Once we are over that hurdle then they will either crash completely or go all the way.
This is our single biggest issue in my view.
"Where's Woody? - We need another Darren Woodson
by BoyfromOz on Jul 9, 2009 2:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
There can be a psychological hangover
but it’s not a given. And if the trend goes back before even Parcells, how is this Wade and Tony’s psychological problem exactly?
And I would hesitate to assess anyone’s psychology without the benefit of, oh I don’t know, even knowing them. It’s a media fabrication – they smile and “speculate” but it’s repeated so often that they and others drop the pretense of speculation and begin using things like that as fact. I don’t know if the team as a whole or the pieces that make up the team have the ability to win the SB, but they’ve won plenty of big games under difficult conditions so i am inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. They have said that their approach this season is attention to detail and focus on getting better each day, not looking past any steps. That appears to me to precisely the approach you need to take to get over any psychological barrier.
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
by dunkman on Jul 9, 2009 6:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's just the luck of the draw...
The Bills could have had the PERFECT mindset … but they came up against 3 NFC East teams playing great ball. The lost the first on a missed field goal! Where’s the “team” mindset there? If anything, you could argue they out played the Giants for most of that game. Just the luck of the draw.
The Cowboys really crapped the bed this past year, which only feeds this myth that they can’t win in December. Well, sometimes you need to bottom out before you can rise again… and something tells me there are a few guys in this locker room ready to have great years. Not only to prove we don’t need TO, not only to prove they’re worthy, but because that is what people do… they learn from adversity and move on.
Dean Smith had the tag “couldn’t win the big one” … and was terribly unlucky if you look at some of those 70s teams. Then a freshman named Mike Jordon sank a jumper, Sleepy Floyd made a silly pass and suddenly Dean was a legend. Dean’s next title was thanks to a Webber time-out.
I don’t care if it takes a few lucky bounces, but I certainly think Wade & Co. are capable.
Tar Heels = National Champs in Basketball ... #1 in Baseball ... Top 10 this year in Football?
by DalaiLuke on Jul 9, 2009 7:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As long as Romo is the QB, Dallas will have trouble winning in the playoffs
Fans stuck in the 80's are lame. Respect the past, live in the now.
by maveric_87 on Jul 10, 2009 10:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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