Keith Brooking and Bobby Carpenter: Are They the Answer?
by Aaron Novinger on Aug 17, 2009 1:00 AM CDT
in Dallas Cowboys General
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PrintThe Cowboys' inside linebacker position has seen a bit of a makeover from last season. Keith Brooking is replacing Zach Thomas, providing more size next to strongside backer Bradie James. Also, his experience in Wade Phillips' 3-4 scheme could prove to be a valuable asset to this unit right away.
On Friday, we got a good glimpse of Bobby Carpenter's new role as the nickel/dime linebacker. Taking over for the departed Kevin Burnett, Carpenter's athleticism showed against Oakland. He had a really nice pass breakup, pressured the quarterback on blitzes, and simply looked like he knew what he was doing on the field.
When Carpenter substitutes in on those passing downs, he often replaces Brooking. Although, we did get to see both Brooking and Carpenter on the field together late in the second quarter.
The breakdown below follows each snap played by Brooking and Carpenter in Friday night's game against the Raiders. Brooking started the game at the weakside linebacker position and played into the second quarter. He even lined up on the field goal block unit. Carpenter came in when the Raiders faced their first third down. With rookie Stephen Hodge out and not getting playtime, Carpenter played into the fourth quarter until Matt Stewart took over. Carpenter also starts on the coverage and return units for both kickoffs and punts.
Make the jump for the breakdown.
Note: Instead of declaring strong or weakside LB, I wrote left (LILB) or right (RILB) to show where they were lined up on the field. Brooking plays the weakside, while Bradie James plays strong. When Carpenter comes in on the second-team defense, he replaces James on the strong side. Of course, their jobs vary in situational formations.
First Quarter
First Raiders Possession
1st and 10 from Raider 32: Brooking (LILB) covered short zone. Assisted Alan Ball on tackle.
1st and 10 from Raider 43: Brooking (RILB) pushed Igor towards run off left tackle, tried to club ball from RB
2nd and 8 from Raider 45: Brooking (RILB) read QB, then pass-rushed
3rd and 8 from Raider 45: Carpenter (LILB) next to James, covered short zone to the left
1st and goal from Dallas 8: Brooking (RILB) blitzed around James and shot between RT and HB while James covered TE in flat. Got hands in the air, but QB completed pass.
2nd and goal from Dallas 1: Brooking (RILB) right behind Igor, shed C to get around the left end of the line. Holding penalty on the Raiders.
2nd and goal from Dallas 12: Brooking (RILB) man on RB, Anthony Spencer tackled FB for a loss.
3rd and goal from Dallas 14: Brooking (RILB) against 3WR and TE, pushed TE outside, but pass went to WR for 10.
4th and goal (field goal try): Brooking played right DE
Next Possession
1st and 10 from Oak 22: Brooking (RILB) twisted with James at snap on a blitz between C and G. Sped through unscathed and sacked QB fro 11-yard loss.
2nd and 21 from Oak 10: Carpenter (ROLB) in dime, rushed around LT but RB ran right.
3rd and 8 from Oak 23: Carpenter (RILB) read QB, then rushed in and shed the FB just before QB completed pass for first down.
1st and 10 from Oak 38: Brooking (LILB) lined up over C and blitzed. Looked good but QB broke free for 17.
1st and 10 from Dallas 49: Brooking (RILB) read play action off of FB block. Incomplete pass deep.
2nd and 10 from Dallas 49: Brooking (LILB). Pass deflected at line by Jay Ratliff.
3rd and 10 from Dallas 49: Brooking (LILB) covered the middle zone against the TE.
Next Possession
1st and 10 from Oak 37: Carpenter (LILB) was double-teamed by RT and C as RB ran left for big gain.
Second Quarter
1st and 10 from Dallas 17: Carpenter (LILB) blocked by RT as run went opposite direction.
2nd and 8 from Dallas 15: Carpenter (RILB) in coverage, ran across field to help push WR out of bounds.
1st and goal from Dallas 6: Carpenter (RILB) made initial contact on run up middle, slowing up RB by wrapping his arm around waist.
2nd and goal from Dallas 4: Carpenter (LILB) covered FB in flat while QB hit TE in back of end zone for TD.
Next Possession
1st and 10 from Oak 22: Carpenter (RILB) in coverage, penalty on Raiders.
1st and 20 from Oak 12: Carpenter (LILB) in man on slot. Pass went elsewhere.
2nd and 7 from Oak 25: Carpenter (RILB) moved up to line to blitz, but RB did a good job picking him up.
3rd and 7 from Oak 25: Carpenter (RILB) covered his zone. Gerald Sensebaugh laid a lick on a WR for the incompletion.
Next Possession
1st and 10 from Oak 6: Carpenter (RILB) ran right to cover RB, then read QB's eyes and checked back to the middle where he almost jumped high enough to tip pass.
1st and 10 from Oak 25: Carpenter (LILB) blocked by C on draw to left, but Raiders called for holding.
1st and 20 from Oak 15: Carpenter (LILB) faked blitz, then got hands up on delayed pass rush.
2nd and 20 from Oak 15: Carpenter (LILB) and Brooking (RILB) in 4-2-5 vs. 3-WR set. Brooking made tackle on run left after RB gained 7.
3rd and 13 from Oak 22: Brooking (LILB) and Carpenter (RILB) sandwiched DeMarcus Ware in a 3-3-5 vs. 3-WRs. Carpenter and Ware dropped into coverage while Brooking blitzed and caused pressure up middle. Carpenter had good coverage on a WR.
Next Possession
1st and 10 from Oak 26: Carpenter (LILB) shed a block to make tackle on run left.
Third Quarter:
1st and 10 from Oak 20: Carpenter (RILB) pushed down to ground by C for a 4-yard run up the middle.
2nd and 6 from Oak 24: Carpenter (LILB) on a delayed blitz, got around RB and got hands in QBs face. Pass fell incomplete.
3rd and 6 from Oak 24: Carpenter (RILB) lined up outside TE on 3-2-5 vs. 3-WR set, rushed QB and had nice inside move on RB. Unfortunately, a penalty on Mike Mickens gave the Raiders a first down.
1st and 10 from Oak 29: Carpenter (LILB) rushed QB up middle but got pushed to ground by RB.
1st and 10 from 50: Carpenter (LILB) twisted right on blitz while Jason Williams came in free behind him to hit QB.
2nd and 10 from 50: Carpenter (LILB) read QB, screen pass went away from for a 20-yard gain.
1st and 10 from Dallas 30: Carpenter (RILB) shed a blocker as a run to right went for 9.
2nd and 1 from Dallas 21: Carpenter (LILB) before snap directed J.Williams to cover right zone while he took the short middle. Pass went left.
1st and goal from Dallas 2: Carpenter (LILB) shed two blockers but RB ran left away from Patrick Watkins for TD.
Next Possession
1st and 10 from: Oak 31: Carpenter (RILB) got by LG in a heavy offensive set to get in on pile for short gain.
1st and 5 from Oak 36: Carpenter (RILB) followed TE in motion and then covered him down the field.
1st and 10 from Oak 31: Carpenter (RILB) couldn't get free of LT on a run left.
2nd and 8 from Oak 33: Carpenter (LILB) read QB, then rushed and hit QB just before throw.
1st and 10 from Dallas 49: Carpenter (LILB) covered middle zone but pass went deep.
1st and goal from Dallas 1: Carpenter (RILB) in on tackle to stop RB.
2nd and goal from Dallas 1: Carpenter (RILB) blocked by fullback but RB scored quickly on an inside run to the right. In this goalline formation, next to Carpenter were J.Williams (MLB) and Matt Stewart (LILB).
Next Possession
1st and 10 from Oak 27: Carpenter (LILB) pushed away FB to help close hole.
2nd and 3 from Oak 30: Carpenter (RILB) double-teamed by C and LG while J. Williams got tackle.
1st and 10 from Oak 40: Carpenter (LILB) covered TE in man.
1st and 10 from Dallas 33: Carpenter (LILB) took on RG, shed him, and made tackle.
2nd and 7 from Dallas 30: Carpenter (LILB) moved up to line to blitz, then shot between RT and RG, evaded FB and got to QB just as he got pass off.
1st and 10 from Dallas 19: Carpenter (RILB) spun off LG to make tackle on run to his side. Raiders flagged for holding.
Fourth Quarter
1st and 20 from Dallas 29: Carpenter (RILB) blanketed TE in flat.
2nd and 20 from Dallas 29: Carpenter (RILB) communicated coverage to others as Raiders had two TEs on left side. He covered the inside TE, who ran a post. Had great coverage and great play on the ball to knock pass incomplete.
3rd and 20 from Dallas 29: Carpenter (RILB) lined up outside OLB and covered RB out of the backfield.
Matt Stewart took over after this possession.
Coach Phillips may have carved a good niche for Carpenter in this defense. When coming in during passing situations, he has shown good coverage skills and enough speed to get to the quarterback on blitzes. Playing behind James keeps him on the offense's strong side, which will expose him to the run more often. That's something we need to keep an eye on during the remainder of the preseason. In this game, he looked to have a good command of the defense and was quick to pursue the ball carriers.
Brooking snapped right in with Coach Phillips' defense. He played with confidence, looked pretty quick and was tenacious. With him next to James and Carpenter coming in on passing downs, this makeover done at inside linebacker could be an improvement for the defense.
For another look at Carpenter's play-by-play against Oakland, check out Musiccitynorm's most excellent FanPost.
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1st
time in a long time that I’ve started to feel confident that Carpenter can really make a reliable contribution to the team. I was planning to keep a closer eye on him when I watch the replay, and this will really help know what to watch for.
2 guys at 1 position makes me a little nervous
That means to mean an offensive coordinator has a mismatch to pick at. I know Burnett did a nice job last year and it’s not that unusual. Based on what I saw the other night I would run at Carpenter even in some obvious passing situations.
by StillHateTheGiants on Aug 17, 2009 7:20 AM CDT up reply actions
by all accounts Carp is a bust
I’m glad they are salvaging something from him because I like the guy.
If anyone can figure out how to use him, it’s SOB.
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.
-Winston Churchill
It seems to me
they are just trying to salvage something with this guy. My question is Carpenter better than Brooking in coverage? Can he be an every down ILB? It’s like this position was given to Carpenter because Burnett had it last year. However, Burnett was significantly better than Thomas in coverage. Now we have two kids (Williams and Hodge) fighting for time at this spot who are both faster than Carpenter but are rookies. As far as i’m concerned, if Carpenter can’t play the run and pass ala Bradie and Brookings, this was a wasted number 1 pick.
Good reporting Aaron
This is like in the court of law, the prosecutor and the defense attorney see the same evidence but different conclusions. I watched Carp during the game and it looked to me like he was getting pushed around a lot, having to dance around blocks causing him to get to the QB late and making tackles from behind instead of head on.
The last 1st round draft pick that Wade had to carve out a niche for was Roy ‘Thong’ Williams. Opposing Offensive Coordinators identified his weakness and exploited it without mercy.
In the first quarter against starters, Carp got in on less than 25% of the plays. Playing in the 2nd through 4th quarters against reserves, he played better but was not a noticeably superior talent. Had we drafted him in Round 3 or 4 I’d be thinking that maybe we should carve out a spot for him, but we all know he was a blue chipper and should be dominating against starters.
So, he is what he is. A 1st round draft pick LB who is weak against the run but can provide decent coverage (for a linebacker). I think under achievers like him are the key reason the Cowboys haven’t been a factor in the playoffs.
"He has a peculiar felicity of expression." John Adams
If we just look at him for what he can provide for this year,
I think he can be a better fit for the passing situations than Burnett. He’s bigger, lankier, and maybe even a bit quicker even though Burnett hit with more intensity; although, he seemed to get dragged on plays. I think we are all past the thought that Bobby can be anything near an Urlacher or Patrick Willis, but if we forget his draft status maybe we can see the light bulb in Wade’s head.
As far as Brooking, I only know what I’ve read from his time in Atlanta. Against Oakland, the guy just flies around like a rabid football player. He really impressed me.
The season begins in 3...2...
http://twitter.com/BloggingTheBoys
by Aaron Novinger on Aug 17, 2009 8:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Aaron,
if he could be “a better fit for the passing situations than Burnett” than why did Burnett beat him out? It wasn’t like Carpenter was picked up in a trade or something. He was there, there was a competition for the spot, and Carpenter lost. He also lost to Greg Ellis, D.Ware, and A. Spencer for OLB spots and to Thomas, Brooking, and James for ILB. As far as I’m concerned, I can’t look past his number 1 draft status because we are paying for that status. Look at the other number 1s drafted over the last five years at his position and see where they are. Now we are going to retard the growth of other guys who may or may not be as good or better against the run and pass but won’t get a chance to play because we want salvage something from this guy? I’m with Jim Vance on this one, especially the underachiver part.
They could have kept Burnett. He didn't cost the Chargers that much.
He’s not my favorite player or anything so I don’t have much ammo to defend him. All I have is hope that he can be the cover guy at linebacker until Williams or Hodge are ready.
Carp looks active out there, but he always seems to be that guy around the pile instead of sticking his nose in there like Brooking or Bradie would.
I just watched him cuz he’s new to the lineup, though not new to the team. If he fails this preseason, then we have a hole to fill. If he succeeds, then we don’t.
The season begins in 3...2...
http://twitter.com/BloggingTheBoys
by Aaron Novinger on Aug 17, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah, I think it was more Burnett chosing to leave
We didn’t want to pay for a brittle dime LB anymore than what he was really worth. Seems the Charges thought the same thing. He just wanted out.
It all really depends on how the rookies develop. Williams is the real deal, he just needs to stop his head from spinning.
I think Carp will do. I just hope Brooking stays healthy. Carp – to me – is more a liability at the 2nd string spot than any benefit he gives in the dime.
Cause if you think about it, if we can’t stop people from converting on 1st or 2nd down, we’ll never see a 3rd and long in the first place. It would be more like 3rd and 2.
I think Dallas will have a hole to fill either way
I think his contract is up after this year, it’s hard to imagine he will be resigned. I believe one of the rookies drafted this year is pencilled in for him after he leaves.
by StillHateTheGiants on Aug 17, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
That's true.
Guess he’d better play his arse off if he wants a job next year.
The season begins in 3...2...
http://twitter.com/BloggingTheBoys
by Aaron Novinger on Aug 17, 2009 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm looking forward to a report on the rookie WRs ...
Yea, Aaron … I’m greedy … get to work!
Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.
yup
There are fundamental flaws in his play. Basic stuff that all LBs should be able to manage. I never saw him play in college but I’m a bit surprised as to how weak his game really is. Pad level is off, his footwork is lacking, and he’s just not aggressive enough. It looks like he’s afraid of contact.
That long run from McFad in the 1st was not a double team on him. He had angle of pursuit and could have put a hat on the RB. He got tied up with the OL. Happend a lot.
His coverage was decent, but even then – he’s not at the point where he can confuse any QB with his zone position. He just runs to a spot and camps out. It seems he doesn’t take advantage of the way he can influence progressions while in those zones. Man to man, not sure about, he had a swipe on one ball.
He is not physical enough and the difference in he and brooking’s interior play is noticable.
I think he should have been a 3rd rounder.
Your posts go into great detail regarding LB play
Are you a coach? Played after HS?
by StillHateTheGiants on Aug 17, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions
yes, played and eventually assisted in my old HS.
My best friend’s dad is also the lead scout for my old HS. So we watched a lot of film growing up and am still contrubuting to a degree.
FB/LB, Hardin Simmons till my shoulders were shot.
I by no means am an expert but I’ve been around it a while and know a little about the technical side of things. I’m sure there are plenty on this board who share the same experiences. I don’t want to sound arrogant though – just trying to manage people’s expectations for our team :)
I like sharing as much as I can.
Good stuff
Trying to help my 12 yr old son learn the LB position. He’s a very good player but has always played NT (where I played). He plays that at a high level but is too athletic to stay there when he gets older, has great speed etc. He’ll be a LB in HS. I’m trying to help him but he just hasn’t gotten comfortable with reads and reactions yet.
by StillHateTheGiants on Aug 17, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
football is the best sport in my opinion
that’s awesome.
Man, quickness and speed would help in either of those positions.
It would help to have more feel for the ball carrier and how he positions himself in “traffic” as a LB but that could be taught.
No doubt he already likes to hit as a NT :)
he's way better than I ever was
that’s not saying too much, but he’s really good. he has the right mentality, motor never stops etc.
you are exactly right, it’s how he handles the traffic that gets him in trouble. he gets hung up and doesn’t get to the ball. that really frustrates him because he wants to be in the action and make the tackle.
by StillHateTheGiants on Aug 17, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
it's like learning to dance for a lack of a better analogy...
you just gotta know where you belong. there’s always going to be a lot of bodies flying around…trick is to know where you are going and beat them to the spot, especially on the initial read. It’s not easy at first but it will come to him. It also helps to have DL that play their technique well. That helps free you up.
But at that level, it’s just good to remind him to just have fun. Everything else will catch up.
Man I love football :)
StillHate
FWIW I coached PeeWee football for several years and the bigger kids (who were athletic and played Oline and Dline) usually moved into the skill positions in high school. I don’t have any science behind that, just observation.
It seems like the smaller, quicker guys in PeeWee didn’t always grow big enough, and the PeeWee linemen gained speed and quickness by HS.
I’ll bet the kid becomes a holy terror at LB.
"He has a peculiar felicity of expression." John Adams
It's funny, you can already project
You can see by family members etc that some of the kids probably won’t be big enough when they get to HS. If any of that holds true with my son (his older brother, me, uncles etc) he’s apt to be 6’2" or so and a pretty solid frame. I could easily see him at 220 with a little work in the weight room. I’m trying to keep him out of their now.
by StillHateTheGiants on Aug 17, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Out of the weight room?
I don’t think it’s necessary even at 12.
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
If he hits the weights at a younger age, here's my 2 cents...
Instead of an adult routine of maxing out somewhere around 15-20 reps, have him work on weights where he can do 50-75+ reps. I don’t think it’s bad for kids to work in the more aerobic ranges of weights, and it’ll show in definition and strength. The other MUST do is jumping rope; even a young kid can improve their foot-speed. I’m 46 and still see a nice step up in quickness if I’m jumping rope.
I’ve got young nephews and a few friends coach their kids … I love watching how much they improve year-over-year. Sounds like you should hire rotovibe as personal coach!
Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.
Jim, I agree......
My son played center and defensive end in pee-wee football. He is now about to enter his senior year in high school. He is a weak side linebacker now. I tend to agree with you on your observation, because two of the guys that were linemen on his team are now linebackers as well. Once they slimmed down and lost their baby fat, they have become quicker and more agile . They also, started working out with weights once they hit middle school which helps alot.
I havent coached Peewee football but I was thinking it to be true.
I want my son on the lines though middle/Jr high. My thought process is teach him the fundamentals of blocking and tackling. If you can do that you will play somewhere in H.S. You can throw the ball any time of the year but full blown pads only come out during the season.
I also bought 2 blocking and tackling dummies. I make my kids do some drills and they whined about the heat and football players dont do these drills. The good ol NFL network shows that clip form all of the training camps doing those same drills with shorts and helmets. See there boys, I told you so! Lets go outside, I dont want you be a slacker like Romo!
I find the harder I work, the luckier I get. Thomas Jefferson
Squid.......
when my son was about 8 years old (3rd grade) he started playing organized football. Some play Pop-Warner but my son’s team played by age group like 8-9, 9-10 etc. Their philosophy was that their skill set would be based on age and not weight unlike Pop Warner. Very big difference in a 9 year old 80 lb. boy and an11 year old 80 lb boy. They felt that this was more like the real game of football. Anyway, my son was kinda small to be playing center but it was the best thing that could have happened to him because he learned the proper technique for being center. He learned to use his hands for leverage etc. On the defensive side of the ball, he played D.E. Again, he learned by getting in the trenches, proper technique for wrapping up etc. I don’t know if this is what helped him be a good physical player, but he is about to enter his Senior Season of High School and he will be playing Will. Excuse my rambling and I hope this makes sense.
I thought I responded to your post but I dont see it.
It does make sense and thanks. Actually all of the responses help. I dont want to push into any sport but I want to give him the tools to be successful if he does want to play in HS.
I find the harder I work, the luckier I get. Thomas Jefferson
Yeah, I never pushed my son.......
He just always liked playing football. It’s not for everyone but it has worked for him.
All players have fundamental flaws....
Some can disguise them more than others. The play I think you are referring to is where he got caught flat footed…happens to everyone…He may not be the best at the point of attack, but neither is James or Brookings. We need Carpenter exactly where he is…as the nickel backer..Carpenter IMO, is actually better at the point of attack than Burnett was and just as good, if not better in coverage.
Don’t count on these rookies for awhile because after watching that preseason game they need a ton of work.
See squidlo's post above
If Carp doesn’t have sleds and tackling dummies in his backyard, he should be cut now. THAT’S commitment.
Whether we’re talking state hospital is another question…
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
I played ball since I was 8...
LB in HS for 3 years and 2 in College, the same school as Miles before tearing up my shoulder. If anything I pay attention to the LB play…you people are forgetting he didn’t exactly come here in the best of conditions….He was bounced around from outside to inside his first two years under Parcells…When you are a new player coming in getting bounced around isn’t exactly the best scenerio for a rookie. Some of you act like he was a top five pick or something…If we are going there has Newman lived up to his draft selection and contract? Has Spears?
Carpenter was a solid player at OSU for anyone that followed him, not spectacular, but solid. He wasn’t drafted to come in and be the next Demarcus Ware, but if sure seems many think he was…If Carpenter was drafted were AJ Hawk was then I would be more willing to say he hasn’t lived up to his expectations. Carpenter was never given the opportunity to start or placed in that role because Ellis worked out at OLB..
I agree with you to an extent.
I still think that he can be helpful as a situational player but I think he’s been given every chance to get on the field. I don’t know if it’s been fair for him as far as shifting positions back and forth, but I find it strange how you can be so defensive of one guy who changed positions and then hammer away on Isiah Stanback. Maybe your post would be more meaningful if you weren’t such a high flying Ohio State homer.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Aug 17, 2009 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Stanback was a long shot and a project from the start....
He has shown very little, but getting injured. If the guy could stay healthy, I would be more supportive, but he can’t. For a player who doesn’t play often get’s injured way too much. At least Carpenter has stayed healthy and been a very good special teams player for us in a backup role. If Stanback wasn’t Jerry’s pet cat he would’ve been gone a long time ago…
Dunk, if Carp makes it to the state hospital, would you be his friend?
Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.
I already have plenty of friends
even if no one else can see them…
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
I don't think we have any players who are flawless. no...
I think he’ll be fine at nickel. And I also think he’s better at run support than Burnett.
I don’t think he’s the strongest at 2nd string Will.
I understand what you are saying but I’m a little skiddish about Carp backing up Brooking in the base set.
I realize and know from experience that you can’t win on every down.
I would just like for him to be a little more physical.
This is his year to shine. So I’m eager to see if he steps up.
These rookies have a ways to go.
The 2 together are an upgrade
I am certain that Brooking is an upgrade over Thomas (as much as I hate to admit because Thomas is one of my favorites). But is Carpenter an upgrade over Burnett? Athletically, Carpenter is slower but is probably more physical than Burnett. Individually, how do you see the comparison?
Carp knows the D and it was obvious that Jason Williams was a bit lost the other night.
We have yet to see Hodge, but can’t expect him to replace ol’ Carpo off of speculation.
This is Bobby’s year to make a career for himself, whether it be as a STplayer/backup or a guy who can contribute on defense regularly. And is it just me, or did Burnett always seem to have some nagging injury? Carp always seems to be in shape and in good health. With that along with his athleticism and experience in Wade’s D, perhaps he can help this unit get more picks.
If he fails and everybody starts misspelling his name again (Crapenter), I’d bet Wade would have no qualms about having Brooking take more of role during passing downs. Wade’s crafty.
The season begins in 3...2...
http://twitter.com/BloggingTheBoys
by Aaron Novinger on Aug 17, 2009 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions
This is key point I think
they need Carpenter to be serviceable for one year (and if they’re lucky, only a part of that year) until Jason Williams can play the position as the nickel ILB.
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
I feel sorry for anyone so hung up on Carps draft status that they cannot see anything else. Draft status means nothing once the games start. IF Carp can be a solid LB then that is fine with me. Maybe one of the young kids in a year or so will be better but right now we need him doing what he did against Oakland. You might notice that the great AJ Hawk has been nothing special for Green Bay.
Burma
Two ‘Thongs’ don’t make a right. A.J. Hawk, Carp, two underachievers.
I know we’re stuck with the guy right now and have to deal with the present instead of ‘what might have been.’ I’m one of those who is having a hard time forgetting who we could have had in place of Carp. Who we could have drafted in subsequent years instead of having to cover for the loss of a 1st round pick that year, etc, etc.
I’m pathetic. Bartender! Another Scotch Rocks por favor!
"He has a peculiar felicity of expression." John Adams
Well,
first of all Hawk starts for Green Bay and is an every down player. As far as their respective performances, Hawk had 119 tackles in ‘06, 105 in ’07 and 86 in ’08. That goes along with his 7.5 ints through the same period. Carpenter shows 13 tackles in ’06, 16 in ’07, and 13 in ’08. He also has 1.5 ints over the same period. Hawk has 310 tackles to 42 for Carpenter. If Carpenter had Hawk’s numbers, no one would be having this discussion. This is not even to mention the amount of draft choices and FA signings we have had to make over the same period at his position. I’m not hung up on Carpenter’s draft status. I’m hung up on his performance.
I have yet to see anyone hit one out of the park sitting on the bench.
I find the harder I work, the luckier I get. Thomas Jefferson
There have been a long list of bust until they actually got to play!
On this team alone
Bradie James, It wasn’t until Dat Nguyn got hurt that Bradie got his chance and he started slow for those who forget.
Andrea Gurode could not crack the starting lineup at guard or center, we were all crying we needed linemen then too. Torin Tucker and Rob Pettitti were starters.
Tony Romo was going to be cut and then Carter got busted with coke. He was behind Drew Henson on the depth chart.
Jay Ratliff was in a battle for a roster spot with some guy named Johnson. He was in real danger of getting cut.
by Musiccitynorm on Aug 17, 2009 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh yea
They all have something in common, they all have played in Hawia
by Musiccitynorm on Aug 17, 2009 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions
This is a good point...
Carpenter will get his shot this year. Whether he proves he just needed playing time or is indeed a bust will start to become obvious as the year progresses.
But the pessimists have the better case here:
1. Lack of playing time
2. Nothing special in the time he’s gotten
3. A TON of draft picks seemingly designed to find a guy for his spot on the roster
I’d love to see him prove everyone wrong, and he’s about to get his shot.
Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.
None of which were the 18th pick in the draft
I don’t buy the coaching changes, moving outside to inside, etc as excuses for his inability to earn his way on the field. How many draft picks did the Cowboys spend this year on linebackers? How many free agents have they brought in since he was drafted? These are people on the inside who see him practice and play and they have to bring in 8-9 players at his position?
My question is – I know no one would burn a 1st round pick on him again, but knowing what we know now, would anyone out there draft him in any round?
"He has a peculiar felicity of expression." John Adams
No, but he was drafted for more than one reason...
1. The team was moving to a 3-4 alignment.
2. Greg Ellis was moving to OLB.
3. They had no other depth.
4. They were also moving Akin Ayodele from 4-3 OLB to 3-4 ILB.
5. Bradie James was still a very average player.
6. Kamerion Wimbley was higher on the Cowboys board, he was also higher on the Cleveland’s one…
7. The Cowboys needed a LB and Carpenter was higher than Manny Lawson (who isn’t anything more than a very poor WOLB and we have the best player at his position).
The team may have drafted a different player at another position, true, especially considering the results (Ellis move was a success, Ayodele was decent and James had his first good season), but there were valid reasons behind drafting a LB that high.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
Chandus
No, you wouldn’t draft him now in any round. That says it all.
"He has a peculiar felicity of expression." John Adams
I'll agree with terry on this, for a 4-3 D.
Im not like you Jim where I guy is picked after draft day no longer matters to me. It what can you do for me today this year. The past is gone and next year will be taken care of next year. Carp can help us this year. I dont think Wade liked Carps game. The fact that Akoyelle played in front of him 2 years ago was a joke. Akoyell(he stunk so bad I dont want to remember his name)had 40 something tackles as an inside LB and that is a joke. You can make 50 tackles as an inside LB in a 3-4 just by touching someone after they trip and fall. Akoyeyah stunk. The fact that wade didnt absorb the growing pains and let Carp learn on the job tell you he didnt like him. i saw what he was capable of againt the Seahags.
You should never wish a guy to fail. If you dont like him and want him off the team then pull for the guy behind to play lights out and force him off.
I find the harder I work, the luckier I get. Thomas Jefferson
From now on I promise to take 5 minute and go back before posting.
i just reread that and I barely even know what that says
I find the harder I work, the luckier I get. Thomas Jefferson
Squidlo's karma has been restored
Thanks DalaiLuke!
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
I was in favor of drafting him
maybe that’s why I take his failure personally. Believe me, I never wanted him to fail, still don’t. I would like to see him resurrect himself as Ray Lewis. I agree with those who say we should squeeze every last drop of utility out of him.
I’m trying to be realistic (not just negative for negatives sake) when I say I don’t think he will make it as a full time starter and limited service as a backup. A linebacker who is weak against the run is like a non-alcohol beer – both are missing a core component.
"He has a peculiar felicity of expression." John Adams
I kinda gave up on him too. Still, lets bleed every drop we can get out of him.
I find the harder I work, the luckier I get. Thomas Jefferson
That's about how I feel too
I thought he was a great pick and I thought Bennett and Folk were bad picks. So… we can all see why Jerry hasn’t invited me into the war room.
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
That is going to far!
BC hasn’t had a great career but equating him to non-alcohol beer is really low. Why don’t you just insult his grandmother or something? You’ve stooped to low for even me. You have to draw the line somewhere and that’s just really low.
by StillHateTheGiants on Aug 17, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
man, I just don't see it in Carp...as much as I want him to step up and win the job...
the guys you mentioned had fundamental things to be impressed about.
BJames – I always thought he was a very physical player. A true SLB. He just needed his smarts to catch up.
AGurode – same thing. Physical player who has the ability to play strong. He just needed to get experience.
TRomo – has an arm and is very accurate under duress. And was a blooming playmaker. (Had a newsmedia acquaintance tell me that when Romo was a scrub – he had the confidence to say that he is the best QB on the team, and that he will start someday.)
Ratliff – was always impressive, even as a 2 technique.
Carpeneter?
Chuck Knoll was once quoted saying – You can tell when you have a lead dog. They bite when they are puppies. If they have it, they have it. If they don’t…
Carp doesn’t bite.
I think Brooking could probably play the pass as well as Carp
in pass situations but if their the same let Carp take some of the wear and tear off of Brooking leaving him with more gas in the tank for Dec and jan. Dont worry about 2 and 1 and 3rd and 1. Brooking will be on the fields in those matchups. If Carp actually gets on the field for 20-30% of the plays he might actuall get better from simply getting more reps.
It was not his fault for the coaching change, D philosphy change, back and forth position changes, ect.. He cant change the fact he was picked in the first round(also not his fault) Let pull for him to be a major contibuter this year a be a small piece of a big puzzle. Lets hope he plays good enough that we want to bring him back but at a price that is cap friendly for us. Then maybe we wont feel the need to draft a half dozen more LBs next year.
I find the harder I work, the luckier I get. Thomas Jefferson
Squid
If he can save wear and tear on Brooking, that could at least provide some utility.
"He has a peculiar felicity of expression." John Adams
I think that's the point
Plus you have to have a back up whether he’s ideal or not while you wait for the light to go on in Jason Williams’ coconut…
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
AJ started right from the beginning and his totals have dropped each year. The point I am making is that BOTH were highly rated prospects from all the scouts and reports. One has struggled to get on the field at all and the other started well but is fading and was NEVER the great LB he was supposed to be. Just goes to show that all the scouting reports can be wrong. You have to accept that and move on. Chandus showed why he was picked. The fact that he has so far been a bust sucks for us but it is what it is. Sometimes you swing and hit and sometimes you swing and miss. Actually Carp has been the only real first rd bust we have had for years. We were due. Roy, TNew, Ware, Felix (so far) looked like really good ones – even Roy was a real good player for a while. So starting in 2002 through 2008 (no first rd pick in 04) all but one of our first rd picks have either made the Pro Bowl or have played pretty well (Spears) except for one. That is a pretty good batting average.
first lets keep carp in perspective
Was he a first round pick? Yes. Was he a top 5 pick?no. Draft experts will tell u that while there are 32 first round picks only about 15 or 16 get 1st round grades. Its very possible that carp had 2nd round talent but was drafted in the first. Come on people the draft aint perfect! We all have hopes that our 1st rd picks will be pro bowlers at the very least starters. Carp has done neither but has a good chance to carve out a niche as the nickel backer. If that’s all he is well so be it. Its not the end of the world and really until he has an opportunity to play behind starter quality d lineman for an entire game how can he be properly evaluated? I don’t care if we’re talkn bout Ray Lewis in his prime if the offense is consistently playing on our side of the LOS then there’s not much a LB can do…..that’s like blaming mb3 for sucking if he played behind our 2nd unit OL….lets give him a chance this year and if he still sucks then cut the bum! But remember for every carp(potential 1st rd bust), there’s a rat(7 th round steal)….
by da universe's team on Aug 17, 2009 11:49 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Carpenter's play hasn't warranted being drafted in the 2nd round either
or 3rd or 4th for that matter. Just a bad pick. Like someone else already said, sometimes you swing and miss.
by StillHateTheGiants on Aug 17, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
You are absolutely correct
in your analysis. Chandus is also correct as to why Carp was picked and where. I think we would all be remiss if we did not add in the Parcell’s factor and that his dad played for Parcells which is how I think he got into the first round. However, people here are right. “What’s done is done.” You want to sqeeze everything out of him this year? Ok, fine by me. However at what cost? How many linebackers can we keep? We have to keep at least eight. So if we keep all 4 rookies (Butler, Williams (2), and Hodge) plus the four starters, that’s eight right there and doesn’t include Carp. Add Carp, and you get nine. Want to keepStewart because he long snaps? Ok, that’s ten. How about Octavien who has had a pretty good camp? With the secondary the way it is can we really afford these linebacker luxuries? Who stays and who goes to give Carp his chance?
Carp is the answer as our nickel backer
however if he has to play for James or Brookings on 1st or 2nd downs, we’re in big trouble.
In Romo we Trust
Carpenter looked pretty good, but...
Carpenter looked pretty good on Thursday against their second and third units.
A couple of things that I keep in mind is that it was a pre-season game in which he faced second and third team players from the RAIDERS (not the steelers, patriots or even eagles). Also, he still showed his FINESSE skills.
Also, he got to put the pressure on the QBs but never even tried to sack the QB eventhough he had a few chances. That is the part of his game that really lets the team and himself down. He needs to get to the QB to tackle him instead of just to pressure him.
Carpenter has a lot of talent. I really think he can be a force in the defensive unit. He needs to just toughen up and be more physical. Until he becomes more physical, he’ll be nothing but a small shadow of what he could really be.
I don't think being physical or tough is something you learn or develop
It’s like speed, you either have or you don’t. You either love to mix it up with the big boys and bust heads or you don’t.
In Romo we Trust
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