Cowboys '09 Autopsy: It's a Talent Thing; Dallas Needs More of It
by Rafael Vela on Jan 20, 2010 7:00 AM CST
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PrintThe parallels between the 2009 Cowboys and the 1991 edition have been fast and, I believe, generally accurate. In each case, a talented Cowboys team broke beyond the limitations of previous teams and generated euphoria among the fan base. In each case, the team had beaten the NFC's top seed to jump start its stretch drive. The '91 team defeated an 11-0 Redskins team on the road to ignite a season-ending five game win streak. It then beat Chicago in the wild card round.
This team beat the 13-0 Saints to ignite its season-ending kick. Now, as in '91, the fans relished a rematch in the NFC title game. Now, as then, it was not to be, because matchups matter in the NFL. That '91 bunch, while young, talented, and 11-5, had some important holes to fill before it became the Super Bowl juggernaut of '92, '93 and '95. It wasn't a matter of simply waiting for the sons of the Herschel Walker trade to mature. That '91 bunch didn't have the talent to simply drink its Ovaltine for the summer and then dominate the remainder of the '90s. The coaches, to their credit, took serious stock and did a lot of wheeling and dealing to get to the top.
That off-season offers a case study for the task at hand. This team is also young, talented and 11-5. It also has a few important holes which need to be filled if the Cowboys want to continue their ascent. Don't let the rippers who grouse that the organization has wasted "the most talent in the NFL" fool you. This team is closer to being full, closer than any team since '91, but it still cannot be considered complete.
February 1, 1992: Five Big Bricks Short of a Foundation
Let's examine the full extent of the work which still needed to be done on that '91 team. It already had ten of its Super Bowl starters in place on an offense which jumped from 26th in points scored to 7th in '91. That missing piece made an Erik Williams-sized difference to the offense. Dallas had drafted Williams out of tiny Central State in the 3rd round and didn't put him on the field his rookie year. The Cowboys played Nate Newton on the edge that year, to give themselves a fighting chance against the Eagles' Reggie White.
Big Erik was ready for '92 and made two positions drastically better. He anchored the right edge for year and proved kryptonite to White, whom E always teased with face jabs. His development let Dallas slide Newton back inside, where his bulk improved Dallas interior run push. The Dallas rushing offense, ranked a respectable 13th in '91, jumped to 2nd the next year.
The big holes were on defense. Dave Wannstedt had key building blocks in place, but he lacked the athleticism his back seven needed to play their read and chase coverage. Teams which could spread the Cowboys -- the run and shoot Oilers and Falcons, for example, gave Dallas fits. In the playoffs, they faced a Detroit team which ran a base 3 WR set, with Herman Moore, Brett Perriman and Brian Blades on the edges. Barry Sanders was in the backfield, so the Cowboys did not dare play nickel against them.
Dallas secondary that season was Larry Brown, James Washington and two greybeards. Ray Horton, a plan B signing from Cincinnati, played the free safety and Isaac Holt, a piece of the Walker mega-trade, played at left corner. This bunch could play zone, but it could not chase big, fast receivers. What's worse, Dallas didn't have a pass rush. Russell Maryland and Tony Tolbert were on board, but Jim Jeffcoat was wearing down playing every down. The team had just 24 sacks in the regular season.
The Cowboys were easy pickings for an average QB like the Lions Erik Kramer, because he had mismatches on the edges and got plenty of time to throw. He ripped the Dallas secondary early and once the Cowboys focused on the pass, he turned Sanders loose. A close game snowballed out of control in the second half. (sound familiar?)
Dallas was 11-5, but a soft 11-5. We see teams like this all the time in the cap era. They get healthy, they get hot, they maximize their talent, get satisfied, and then promptly fall to 7-9 the following year.
Jimmy Johnson didn't delude himself. He knew he lacked players on defense. A lot of players. Free agency was not a real option in 1992, but he had the last double year of the Walker trade at his disposal and made his version of the T.O. deal, shipping a 2nd to the 49ers for Charles Haley. Haley was the ignitor for Dallas' rush, a guy who commanded double teams and freed others to make plays. Haley sacked QBs just 6.0 times in '92 but he gave Tony Tolbert the space to get 8.5. Jeffcoat became a situational rusher and grabbed 10.5 sacks as the changeup guy. The team's sacks nearly doubled, from 24.0 to 44.0.
Jimmy and Jerry made a controversial, but ultimately successful move at MLB, dumping Jack Del Rio and going with rookie Robert Jones, his second 1st- round pick. He didn't have Del Rio's smarts but he had the speed the aging Del Rio lacked.
The most severe overhaul came in the back, where Dallas built a new secondary almost from scratch. CB Kevin Smith was drafted in the 1st and shoved into the lineup. Darren Woodson was drafted in the 2nd. He wouldn't play much as a rookie but was ready for a decade of exceptional play once the team figured out that he was ready. Jimmy didn't add the final part until the trading deadline, when he send a mid-rounder to Pittsburgh for holdout FS Thomas Everett. Everett was only 5'9" but he was smart and fast, and covered a lot more ground than the fading Horton.
The Cowboys added four new starters on a defense which went 11-5, and needed every one of them. They didn't fall in love with the talent they had and were thus able to improve faster than most every expert expected.
The challenge for this coaching staff is to replicate Jimmy's ruthlessness. Early signs are encouraging. Wade Phillips had a 13-3 team in '07, but has not been content to let his talent "season." Consider what he had then and what he has now:
(carryover starters in bold)
| Position | 2007 | 2009 |
| LCB | T. Newman | T. Newman |
| RCB | A. Henry | M. Jenkins |
| NCB | J. Reeves |
O. Scandrick |
| SS | R. Williams | G. Sensabaugh |
| FS | K. Hamlin | K. Hamlin |
| SOLB | G. Ellis | A. Spencer |
| SILB | B. James | B. James |
| WILB | A. Ayodele | K. Brooking |
| WOLB | D. Ware | D. Ware |
| WOLB | K. Burnett |
B. Carpenter |
| LDE | M. Spears | M. Spears |
| NT | J. Ratliff | J. Ratliff |
| RDE | C. Canty | I. Olshansky |
No sentiment here. Only six starters from Wade's '07 bunch remain. When you consider that Ken Hamlin was signed in Phillips' first offseason, only five of the thirteen defensive starters from Bill Parcells' last defense remain. (I consider nickel corner and nickel linebacker starting roles, because they play at least 25-30 snaps a week and are vital in this passing era.) What's more, almost every one of these spots has been upgraded. Who would prefer Anthony Henry to Mike Jenkins? Akin Ayodele to Keith Brooking? Roy Williams to Gerald Sensabaugh? Chris Canty to Igor Olshansky?
And the makeover shows no sign of abating. Dallas drafted a full set of linebackers last year, but only Victor Butler escaped severe injury. Keith Brooking shouldn't relax, because Jason Williams was drafted to challenge him. The same is true for Bobby Carpenter. Williams is gunning for you. And Stephen Hodge wants that nickel job too.
The intensity of the makeover has me convinced the Cowboys are not done here. Hamlin and Sensabaugh have re-introduced Dallas fans to solid safety play but neither is in the Troy Polamalu, Ed Reed, Darren Woodson class. Spears has been a better player under Wade, but he's not a Richard Seymour-caliber player. Jason Hatcher and Stephen Bowen are restricted free agents in waiting.
This year's draft is rich in defensive linemen and safeties. You do the math.
On offense, the age and infirmity is on the line. Every Cowboys starter will be 32 or older next year. (Of the skill position players, only Patrick Crayton has seen his 30th birthday.) The Cowboys like to say they don't draft players to be backups. Of their bench, only Doug Free has challenged for playing time in the last few years.
Again, the math looks rather simple.
Teams which become content with their talent find themselves falling behind. That does not appear to be the case in Dallas. The team has been good at identifying one or two areas of need and saturating them with young prospects. The DL was reworked in '05. The secondary and linebacking corps were redone in '08 and '09. Running back was turned over in '08.
The Cowboys need a makeover on offensive line. Robert Brewster remains an x-factor, whose closeness to playing remains a well-kept secret. Free showed he has game. They key for Wade, Stephen, Jerry, and the assistant coaches it to remain as cold-blooded as ever in their self scouting, and for Tom Ciskowski and his scouts to keep playing the numbers in his draft patterns. The tactic has worked so far on defense and needs to keep working to get Dallas deeper in the playoffs.
Keep 'em sweating, gentlemen.
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Well...
You could also make the argument that the 2007 Cowboys broke thru barriers en route to an amazing record, NFC East Crown, and first round bye. We’ve had a good influx of talent since then, but that still has not propelled us beyond the second round. The success of this year breeds optimism for the future, but drawing a parallel to 1991 may be putting some unrealistic expectations on the team going forward.
That could be said...
althought I’d also say that the 2007 team had some internal issues that weren’t going to easily be fixed.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 7:15 AM CST up reply actions
like an overpaid wideout using the media to bitch that he is not given the ball enough and could have regularly beaten the 5-10" corner that was matched up against him? :)
by Boundforbeach on Jan 20, 2010 7:26 AM CST up reply actions
Actually,
he was not given the ball at all.
Right...
And he’s already telegraphed that if he’s not a much bigger part of the offense next year, then the $h&t is going to hit the fan.
by Boundforbeach on Jan 20, 2010 7:36 AM CST up reply actions
Once again...
It’s not going to hit the fan, because he isn’t dividing a lockerroom, he doesn’t have that much influence from all reports.
Patrick Crayton has more influence then Roy.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 7:37 AM CST up reply actions
That is the point, nor does he have
much media interest. Need both to cause a “distraction”.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
Yeah, so?
what type of &*$% does Roy have to throw? Seriously.
It’s not like the guy is holding the offense hostage. They’re shown they can do very well without him.
He's not an issue.
You know why?
Because no one cares. If he was having a ton of 1000 yard seasons and double digit TD’s perhaps he would have a gripe, but he has none, so nobody cares.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 7:36 AM CST up reply actions
I agree
I also think there should be an extremely blunt conversation with RW before he leaves town (he’s probably already left). He could be a valuable asset. He needs to get focussed to catch the ball and run good routes. It is totally up to him if he wants to contribute. If not, dump him and move on. He may not be a big distraction but he is an anchor on the salary cap and is standing in the way of other people getting snaps and developing.
by StillHateTheGiants on Jan 20, 2010 7:49 AM CST up reply actions
Can we all just agree
To never, ever, ever, never have a guy named ROY WILLIAMS on our squad. NEVER EVER NEVER AGAIN!?!?!
by Cosby Sweater on Jan 20, 2010 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
Yes, Roy Williams
and any variation thereof needs to be avoided like the plague, stricken from the record. I am with the tar and feather run em out on a rail party (complete with torches and pitchforks:) just kidding, but he needs to begone. Aroint thee!!
Just becuz you put yer boots in the oven don't make it bread
by dcfansinceiwasababy on Jan 20, 2010 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
That team did what a lot of teams do every year
get hot in the regular season. The offense was great.
The defense, you’ll recall, was okay, but not great. The Pats ripped it to pieces. The corners were always playing 7 yards off the ball.
Great post
You hit the nail on the head with this
They key for Wade, Stephen, Jerry, and the assistant coaches it to remain as cold-blooded as ever in their self scouting
That means making the tough choices like trading MB3, the easier choices like replacing Spears and the no brainers like relegating Flozell and Columbo to back up status.
Wade’s job is safe but between him and Jerry, they need to shine now more than ever. The window is open and this offseason will go a long way to keeping it wide open for a few years or having it slam shut.
Agree Billito
One of Jerry’s and Wade’s best character traits is also one of their greatest weaknesses – undying loyalty. Stephen Jones seems more calculating and I hope they are brutally honest in their assessment of the team, especially the O-line. Those guys work hard and they have their moments, but they cannot consistently produce what this team needs as a unit. A couple of them need to become excellent back-ups for the rest of their careers.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
FIRE DAVE CAMPO NOW!!!!!
If Wade, Stephen, and Jerry are going to remain cold-blooded in their self scouting then they really need to cut ties with the weakest link on our team. And I’m sorry to say this but Mr. Campo is the weakest link. What was the biggest downfall of Dave Campo as a head coach? He wasn’t a disciplinarian who always seemed to lack any authority or intensity to demand perfection of the entire team when they would make their routine gaffes while suffering through three consecutive 5-11 seasons. As I said in a previous post, dating back to the Parcells era when Dave Campo stayed on as DB coach, which is the one unit on this defense that has consistently provided back breaking moments for this team? The defensive backs. Which unit on the defense this past Sunday came up small on the play resulting in Minnesota’s first TD? The defensive backs, specifically Terence Newman and Gerald Sensabaugh. I know the secondary cannot always play spotless in its coverages. I also know that we have had and continue to have talented guys at corner and safety. However, unless we get a DB coach who will demand perfection and rip into these players if and when they screw up, this team will not go far in the post season. I don’t think Wade chewing out Campo after the fact is an isolated occurrence unless someone can provide information to the contrary. Honestly, Wade-Jerry-Stephen need to ask themselves if Campo is the guy who can instill accountability and attention to detail in the players he is responsible for coaching up. If they don’t believe he is up to it, as I have been of this opinion for some time, then he must be let go and we must bring in another coach who can be demanding of our corners and safeties.
"Oh I would have said something to Buddy but he didn't stand on the field long enough, he put his BIG FAT REAR END into the dressing room!"---Jimmy Johson, November 23, 1989.
uh, are we talking about the same Dave Campo?
have you not seen Campo on the sidelines getting into an argument with Newman? There are lots of things that you can say about Campo but lack of intensity is definitely not one of them. Also, when Parcells came in Dave Campo was not the DB Coach. He left after he was fired and became the DC of the Browns. Wade and Jerry brought Campo back a couple of years ago.
Thank you
for clarifying that for me. I didn’t realize he was fired when Parcells arrived. And I actually forgot about his argument with Terence Newman.
"Oh I would have said something to Buddy but he didn't stand on the field long enough, he put his BIG FAT REAR END into the dressing room!"---Jimmy Johson, November 23, 1989.
actuallu i think tha would not happen
but obviously i wish, and colombo, hamlin and maybe barber should be traded, colombo has much into his check to be a backup and is the same with hamlin, so we need to get rid of them
Nice work Raf,
OL, DL, S and WR are the top spots they’ll target I think (in that order if possible).
The Brewster question remains a real interesting one. If they think he can successfully play LG next year an interior Olineman is not a real high priority in the first 3 rounds. If they want him to play RT (with Free going LT) than an interior Olineman must be drafted very early (rounds 1 or 2) for LG. If they have no faith in him at all we need both a Tackle and an interior Olineman with our first 4 picks.
Or maybe some LBs depending on how last year's "Lost Class" pans out this off-season...
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
I think they'll give Williams and Hodge a chance inside first
but I wouldn’t be surprised to see a later round OLB pass rusher for sure. Can never have to many in this scheme.
"Lost Class". Love it.
“These guys didn’t take over starting positions as rookies! This draft must be a bust! Our scouting department sucks!”
Not.
"We'll see." --Bill Parcells
can you imagine 3 new lineman
Free
Brewster (hope he works out)
Iupati from Idaho
me likey
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
I've only just started to have a look at possible draft picks
but yeah, Mike Iupati stood out to me right away as someone who should go late first/early second and could help us a lot.
I still haven't had any interest in watching the game
I had to DVR it because of a family function. Has anybody looked closely at how Doug Free did against Jared Allen? That is a big question mark that should impact the draft.
by StillHateTheGiants on Jan 20, 2010 7:59 AM CST reply actions
He did fine.
He didn’t give up any sacks and I don’t remember him getting beat on any particular play.
Allen got by him on his first play and logged a tackle for a loss
But most of the other Allen-related damage was done against Witten. Edwards was the problem before and after Free entered the game. Edwards and a caved-in front of the pocket thanks to the Williams Wall.
Larry Allen benched 700 pounds. That is Leonard Davis times two.
you have to take your medicine
or else its going to eat at you all winter, spring and summer. No way you are going to make it all off season without watching it.
by RisingSunCowboy on Jan 21, 2010 3:14 AM CST up reply actions
Will Jerry and the offensive coaches do it?
I couldn’t agree more, Mr. Vela. Jones, Ciskowski and the offensive coaching staff need be their own harshest critics when it comes to talent evaluation of the offense; especially the OL. Will they be honest with themselves, though? Phillips seems totally capable of uncovering and then improving flaws (he just won’t talk about it publicly), but I am not sold Jones will. Although I am encouraged by last year’s off-season jettisons of Owens, Ellis, Henry, Pacman, and Canty.
(Also, and I hate to nit-pick, but in the following sentence it’s “ascent”, not “assent”. Ascent is to climb. Assent is to agree. " It also has a few important holes which need to be filled if the Cowboys want to continue their assent. ")
keep the jettisons coming please...
RW for sure….
increased playing time for Felix….at the expense (if not release/trade of MBIII)
move Tnew to the slot
address OL
kicker
address KO return situation
+1
I think people are overreacting on Colombo. He had one bad game. Blame that on rust or whatever you want, but the guy has been soild all season. He wont lose his starting job. Free’s best chance of cracking the starting lineup is if he can play LG next year otherwise he will be a bench player again.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
I am also more concerned with Kosier
but Colombo also has lapses. Longer term Free should probably replace Flo and they should be finding and grooming the next RT through the draft.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
Im fine with Colombo..our biggest concern right now is LG
Colombo is not going anywhere, his contract will prohibit him from being replaced unless he totally sucks next year. One game isn’t enough to bench a player. Same with Flo..sorry, he wasn’t that bad. I agree, we need to find his replacement, but unless we find someone better than the incumbent its not happening.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
forget this talk of contracts
we NEED to get better, the post argued this and I agree. keeping mediocre talent will get us back to 9 and 7. Colombo and Flow need to be replaced more urgently that any other starters on this team. i am not seriously disappointed with this team after this years performance but if we fail to get better I will be. the cowboys need to be a mainstay at the top for at least the next 6 or 7 years.
And were do you expect to get this immediate upgrade of talent...?
not picking with the 27th pick in the draft we won’t…..what rookie is coming in and replacing Flozell or Colombo….lineman being one of the hardest positions to replace to begin with, especially with a rookie….lets face the facts here. Unless we find a FA thats better than what we have they won’t be replaced. chances of that are slim right now considering whats going on with the CBA. Colombo is not medicore and I didnt hear anyone complaining about him prior to Sunday. Our best chance of seeing change will be at LG unless they take a leap of faith and replace Flozell with Free, but that wouldnt be a great idea IMO.
Like Parcells used to say, you can’t just order one of the guys up…or something alone those lines…..lol
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Yeah...
He was referring to QB’s. I think he said there isn’t a 1 800 dial a QB line.
I did love Bill’s press conferences.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
With the 27th pick
I’m coming round to the idea of a top-notch interior lineman. We might end up with great value for such a late pick.
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by accidental innuendo on Jan 20, 2010 7:49 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah...
althought I don’t know if there are alot of interior linemen that rate real high this year.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 8:01 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not sure.
I’ve seen him high on mock drafts.
I’d be curious to see what Raf has heard about him.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 8:57 PM CST up reply actions
Flozell was decent this year
I don’t think he’s warranted the boot yet, but it’s good that Free is around. But I am also starting to wonder if Free should be starting ahead of Colombo at RT next year.
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by accidental innuendo on Jan 20, 2010 7:52 PM CST up reply actions
But you could move Colombo to guard, a la Nate Newton, no?
Colombo was our single biggest problem against the Vikings. Not to fall victim to recency, but he looked like he was 50 years old out there.
Larry Allen benched 700 pounds. That is Leonard Davis times two.
thanks
I know the difference. I’m a very sloppy typist. In the future, simply skip the explanations, but continue to point out the typos.
by Rafael Vela on Jan 20, 2010 10:00 AM CST up reply actions
"Assent" would seem to be a lot like
descent – as in headed in the a** direction…
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
@egtuna
Those guys the team dumped:
T.O., Ellis, Pacman, Canty and Henry, are almost all Jerry guys. Jerry drafted Ellis in the bad Jerry 1.0 days. Look at his comments on draft day ‘05 and he talks about how “I” drafted Chris Canty. Pacman and T.O. were his signings. Parcells pulled the trigger on Henry, but this showed me Jerry didn’t put sentiment above improving the roster.
by Rafael Vela on Jan 20, 2010 10:06 AM CST up reply actions
WWJD?
What Would Jimmy Do?
Damn, kind of wish we could bring him back in some capacity, a consultant or something.
"He just LOVES to play the game!" Yeah, because apparently the other 1499 NFL players do not. (/sarcasm)
I love me some Jimmy Johnson...
…but I do think there is some opinion that he was without faults.
I think the thing Jimmy did the best, was surround himself with people who had an eye for talent and how to develop talent.
A head coach is only as good as his supporting cast, IMO.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 8:38 AM CST up reply actions
He certianly had his faults
didn’t do all that well in Miami. But I think (and this is totally wishful thinking, coz I know it has no chance in hell of happening) he could be a valuable addition to the Cowboys brain trust.
"He just LOVES to play the game!" Yeah, because apparently the other 1499 NFL players do not. (/sarcasm)
I guess if you don't win the SB
you aren’t successful.
He turned the team around and made Miami a top 5 defense.
He also drafted Jason Taylor and a number of multi-pro bowl players.
Compare his drafts to Jerry’s back then and it’s not even close.
The man knows talent. Something I still can’t say about Jerry.
That Felix Jones pick, resigning Barber, the trades with Parcell’s and the RW move just made no sense.
The FJ pick. You don’t draft a situational back in the first round.
Barber. His style says he will be banged up. Now he’s always banged up.
Parcell’s. He traded two players that start for the Dolphins for a 5th round pick.
RW. I saw a post above that mentioned tar and feather.
by Sharksbreath on Jan 20, 2010 6:57 PM CST up reply actions
The FJ pick
Are you really prepared to say that Felix Jones was a bad pick. Looks like a pretty good running back to me.
Plus I don't think he's "situational"
It became obvious he was gaining the majority of our carries, and I’m sure his role will be increased even more next year.
His biggest victory was not sticking around long enough to rack up any failures
I guarantee you that Miami Dolphins fans are not as high on Jimmy Johnson as we are.
Larry Allen benched 700 pounds. That is Leonard Davis times two.
Agreed.
Not saying I wouldn’t love for him to come back, he’s a great coach, he is an anomaly of a coach having success in college and the pro’s.
I think that there is an assumption that Jimmy would have won 4 SB’s if he had been there, and I don’t know if that’s entirely true.
There is a reason no team has ever won 3 SB’s in a row, ridiculoulsy hard to do.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 8:52 AM CST up reply actions
It would be hard to convince me we didn't leave a SB or two on the table by getting rid of Jimmy.
That team didn’t play the same under Barry Switzer. Post-Jimmy was also when the majority of the off-field issues started. It probably had a lot to do with playing for Jimmy as rookies, but those guys always played like they were scared to disappoint him.
exactly
he may have been to coaching what Troy Hambrick was to running backs. his book of work is only one chapter.
He revolutionized scouting, but that revolution was several generations of NFL evolution ago. It was before cable TV became totally pervasive. A decade before the Internet. The pervasive, continuous supply of information today has fundamentally changed all approaches to scouting. Other smarter more capable coaches and scouts have taken what Jimmy did and made it better.
Personally, I don’t put any stock in mythologizing the past.
Brewster
“Robert Brewster remains an x-factor, whose closeness to playing remains a well-kept secret.” Are you purposely trying to imply something with the words “whose closeness to playing remains a well-kept secret”? In other words, do you have any reason to believe he really is that close? The way I’ve been thinking of it is that there’s no way I get my hopes up that this 2nd year player can take a starting spot next year. Have you heard otherwise?
I think the words
"whose closeness to playing remains a well-kept secret" are meant to imply that they haven’t said much at all about him one way or another.
The weird thing though was the team not immediately dumping him onto IR. That was unusual to say the least and led to a lot of speculation.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
2nd year players take starting spots all the time. 1st year players do
where do people get this idea that O-linemen take three years to prepare?
the question is his health.
by Rafael Vela on Jan 20, 2010 10:08 AM CST up reply actions
Second year players that have been on IR all year...
And its not like he was a first round pick. Unless they get thrown into the meat grinder because of injury or the OL was poor to begin with it takes time to devolp a good lineman. Brewster maybe a bust for all we know so I wouldnt be pinning our hopes on a guy who is a long shot to begin with
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
3rd rounders are not long shots
He might be a bust, but that would likely be because of his injury. I understand the team liked what it saw of him before he got hurt, but I have not been able to get any more information since.
by Rafael Vela on Jan 20, 2010 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
that's all I was wondering...
…whether you had heard anything specifically about Brewster that implied the coaches think he’s ready to take a starting spot. I’m all for speculating that a second year player can become a starter, but a lot of people also speculated that McQuistan could become a starter. I was looking for some indication that Brewster might be different.
The thing is we have ZERO luck for the most part at drafting OL....2nd round, 3rd rounders..doesnt matter
They never crack the starting lineup. The reason we have to find them in FA. When was the last time a lineman worked out for this team…Flozell, Larry Allen? 11+ years ago right? Free agency works best for this team. Free appears to be the only lineman that may have panned out. That will be the first in a very long time. We have drafted lineman, its not like we haven’t, but they never work out.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
yup...correct..
I know we wanted Unger to play Center and move Gurode to LG. Too bad that didnt pan out. What I’m saying if people want an immediate fix to the OL, it’s not going to happen through the draft. Not this year anyway. Not picking a lineman with the 27th pick. I really dont see Flozell or Colombo being replaced, Colombo especially next season. Kosier is are best chance at seeing change.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
just because we haven't hit on recent drafts
doesn’t mean we wont this draft
I think the cowboys would be stupid if we didnt draft an O-linemen in the first couple of rounds
sighs
Worst reason not to draft a lineman.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 5:02 PM CST up reply actions
Can we learn something from the remaining four playoff teams?
TMQ noted this on ESPN yesterday, and while I think he’s stretching the truth a bit to make a point, he’s on the right track:
The remaining four playoff teams have 4 of the top 6 or 7 OLs in the NFL.
In today’s offense oriented, passing heavy NFL, a top notch OL seems like one of the biggest advantages you can have. Certainly a good QB is necessary (unless you have a DRAMATIC advantage in other area, like the Jets’ #1 overall defense), but an elite OL seems to be just as necessary these days.
There are a few exceptions (the ‘08 Pittsburgh Steelers— again, sporting a #1 overall defense), but teams that have had postseason success in recent years have largely had reliable OL units (’07 Giants, ‘03-’07 Patriots, Colts, Ravens, Titans, pre-2009 Eagles, Saints, etc.)
Larry Allen benched 700 pounds. That is Leonard Davis times two.
Total agreement
As goes the line, goes the team.
"He just LOVES to play the game!" Yeah, because apparently the other 1499 NFL players do not. (/sarcasm)
Raf, is there a chance either Colombo moves inside, a la Nate Newton in 1992?
Seems like he would have the power and anchor to play guard effectively. His age means he’s not a long-term solution, but if Free is really a better option at tackle, then we might be able to upgrade two spots like the 1992 team did with Williams and Newton.
Larry Allen benched 700 pounds. That is Leonard Davis times two.
I'd doubt it
kevin Gogan did it, but you don’t see 6’8" guards.
by Rafael Vela on Jan 20, 2010 10:10 AM CST up reply actions
what about flozell moving inside
what is the chance of that. he used to play guard but he is much older now.
Ts to Gs
I, too, was pondering the idea of possibly moving one of the tackles inside after reading Raf’s writeup about Newton.
Romo’s not tiny, but it might be difficult to throw over the line when both guards are 6’7"+. I don’t believe he has problems throwing over Davis.
But it’d be great if Flo could still be utilized in his decline. Despite all the whining from the Giants DL, I like the “nastiness” and attitude that Flo brings to the OL, it can fire up the O at key moments (just so long as it’s not 15-yd personal fouls). I think Columbo might have that ’tude also.
Also, what was Brandan Marshall’s issue in Denver? Any chance he could be obtained for RW?
Question for last question....
Would you trade Brandon Marshall for RW?
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 2:11 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not a homer but.............
cringe, cringe-I haven’t given up on Roy yet-Okay, I’m ready for it! Let’s just see if they can work this out in the spring. If they can’t then I’ll be the first to admit that I’m wrong.
Texstar - Time to Give up
Not another year of Roy WIlliams……. his big second chance, come-back year wasTHIS year. Please don’tmake us suffer through another year of 10 (offense) vs 11 (defense). Noooo………….
LOL
I’m laughing at the way you phrased your post, Texstar.
Ahh, I wish that Roy would magically transform into the player he should be. It would be awesome.
Drago says, "We must break you!"
by APerfectStar on Jan 20, 2010 10:58 PM CST up reply actions
trading for WRs doesn't have a good track record on this team
The Galloway deal,
the Roy deal.
You have to go back to the Ron Sellars trade to find a real effective deal, and that was what, 1973?
Flozell is a better tackle than Colombo, though
Colombo was the one who got brutalized in the Vikings game. That’s why I suggested moving him. Why move Flozell?
Larry Allen benched 700 pounds. That is Leonard Davis times two.
really....one game?..lol...one bad game and he is awful...
Colombo has been a beast all year….please…he wont be replaced.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
I didn't say Colombo was awful.
I said Flozell was a better tackle, and if one of them has to change positions, I think it should be Colombo, not Flozell. Why is that surprising logic?
Larry Allen benched 700 pounds. That is Leonard Davis times two.
Marshall really wasnt a problem...
If you remember his issues were that he wasn’t happy when they traded Cutler. I would take Marshall in a second…
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
uh, you don't consider domestic violence issues important?
he was suspended for 3 games for smashing his arm through a tv and lying about it, he was arrested in Atlanta last year for disorderly conduct, and multiple women have accused him of domestic violence. It’s more than being unhappy about Cutler.
Marshall is a head case
Cowboys just cleaned up their locker room throwing out trash like T.O., Pacrat and Tank Johnson. They’re not going to get back to signing problem players again, not happening.
In Romo we Trust
Yeah....
He’s been good law wise lately, but if you can get in trouble in Denver, how much trouble can you get in in Dallas?
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 21, 2010 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
upgrading DE and FS would be nice
but I see the OL as the glaring weakness, particularly with age. You can only plug so many holes.
Spears is no Richard Seymour, but I would take an upgrade at FS first. Hamlin seemed to be very shy of contract in the Vikings game.
Spears
Also becomes a free agent I believe, so it might be a HAVE to fill role.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 9:26 AM CST up reply actions
Seymour will be available, though, I think.
I know he’s not young, but I think he has a few years left in him. He’s one of the few known instant upgrades available.
by Baked Potato Soup on Jan 20, 2010 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah
and I’m sure he’d rather play for a contender.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
I think they will seriously consider Bowen as the starter if they draft a DE.
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by Aaron Novinger on Jan 20, 2010 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah...
I just read that somewhere. He’s actually a pretty good pass rusher too?
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
Reminds me of a young Jeffcoat.
I know that’s a bit much, but who knows?
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by Aaron Novinger on Jan 20, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
I know this is completely off subject so forgive me.........
but Jeffcoat has a son that is graduating from Plano H.S. (East or West?) that is the second best player in the country according to some reports. Keep an eye on him. Also, I saw where Jeffcoat (Jim) is coaching at University of Houston as a DLine Coach. Sorry, but you reminded me of that when you mentioned Jeffcoat.
Yeah....
Last I read he might be leaning towards Texas.
He’s a badass.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 1:53 PM CST up reply actions
yeah, but what's really strange.........
Florida was after him but they are going with some other guy that’s rated #1. Jeffcoat was leaning towards Florida but now he’s looking at UT,OU. If he came to UT he would be playing with Nate Newton’s son-the Running Back
Alot of recruits...
backed away when Meyer had his little “I’m quitting, no I’m not” moment.
Plus Florida’s defensive coach I think is taking a head job somewhere.
In TX these defensive guys know that Muschamp is around and there is a sense of stability.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 2:01 PM CST up reply actions
yeah, last I heard.........
this is a stretch-but Jeffcoat is even looking at Tech because of Tuberville. I didn’t realize until all this Leach stuff that Tuberville got his grooming from Jimmy Johnson at University of Miami.
SEC is where I'd go for defense
I would imagine it’s easier to be a standout in the Big 12, but only because the defenses really aren’t that good. Nebraska being a major exception.
This could just be SEC bias, but I feel like the SEC defenses are head & shoulders above, going against a lot better running teams that have the ability to pass. It just seems like when you are going up against the spread almost week in & week out you lose toughness or something or other, couldn’t pin point exactly what it is. Just look at the National Championship game this year. Texas got run over, literally. Granted it was the Heisman winner, Texas defense just looked soft against the run, & they were supposed to be a great defense. This is all speculation & like I said, probably some SEC bias, but it just gets frustrating hearing how great the Big 12 is on defense & all they have to do is stop the spread, though not the easiest feat, but easier than hard nosed football
"I'm hurt dog, don't ask me if I'm alright. Hell na man. Juaqin said Dominate & we not doin' it. I'm puttin' my Heart into this #### dog. LET"S GO MAN!"
-The Ed Reed
well to be quite honest......
I wasn’t impressed with Alabama. Yeah, their defense is really good but if Colt McCoy had played, I think it would have been a totally different game. Considering that Garrett Gilbert had never played before, he found some weaknesses in your defense as well.
No Better Prep Coach than Saban
I’m an LSU fan, gots lineage there. But Colt McCoy wasn’t going to help the defense stop running plays. Gilbert made the plays he did because Bama had not been prepared for him. There is no better coach in college football at preparing his defense for opposing QBs than Saban. Might be an intangible that cannot be determined. I promise you that if Colt played it would have been almost the same out come, as it was for Jason White and the OU offense. That Texas defense was not going to stop the Alabama rushing game, and it would come down to ball control. Texas would lose that battle all night long, they surely didn’t have a running game. I’m not trying to just shoot you down, but i get frustrated with all the sympathy the Big 12 gets. I guess we’ll never really know what would have happened that night in Southern California had the Colt played, but I can’t imagine Colt was going to be a 16 point difference against the nations best D
"I'm hurt dog, don't ask me if I'm alright. Hell na man. Juaqin said Dominate & we not doin' it. I'm puttin' my Heart into this #### dog. LET"S GO MAN!"
-The Ed Reed
Gilbert made the plays he could because they weren't prepared for him?
I think Texas would have still lost and I’m a Texas fan, but…. come the hell on.
There isn’t anything special about Gilbert to plan for, besides “don’t worry about him running, he’s going to pass.”
It’s not like they went from Colt McCoy to Michael Vick.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
well said............
what game planning for Gilbert? This poor kid is a true freshman that had never seen the field except mop up duty. He did very well considering what he was thrown in to. A lot of UT’s gameplan had to be thrown out when McCoy went down. Now to get back to the Cowboys, I think this is a very good lesson to learn for teams that you need to have other players ready to play in case of injury as well. UT definitely got caught with their pants down by not properly preparing Gilbert. The Cowboys need to learn from this as well.
Yeah...
although I don’t know if there is “proper preperation” for a young QB with no real game experience.
You can practice, but beating up on a beaten Lousiana Monroe isn’t the same as coming in at the first of the game against Alabama.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 3:09 PM CST up reply actions
very true.........
another great example is the Colts whenever Manning left against the Jets. The poor kid-Painter-was thrown to the wolves.
Ummm
I don’t want to turn this into a college football discussion but…
1) Who says the Big 12 is loaded with great defenses?
2) Citing that Texas couldn’t stop Alabama’s running game isn’t a testament about Texas as it is too how good Alabama’s running game is. They ran all over Florida as well.
3)The mere thought that a “SEC fan” is irritated with Big 12 fans is funny. Why? Because there aren’t any Big 12 fans, there are fans of teams that are in the Big 12. You don’t hear Big 12 chants… ever.
4) Just because defenses are great in the SEC doesn’t mean that you can’t have good defenses outside of the conference. USC had a badass defense last year as did TCU.
5) While I’ll admit SEC is the best conference, why is it that SEC fans always tend to forget when they lose games? Florida gave up 41 points to Michigan a couple of years ago. Arkansas got waxed by Texas last year, Tennesse got driven by Virginia Tech this year.
6)Why might Jeffcoat want to go to Texas? Which is the entire subject me and texstar were talking about… well because he’s FROM Texas.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 2:36 PM CST up reply actions
Haley's first year with Dallas
6.0 sacks while JJ had 10.5 playing part time
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 20, 2010 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
with the CBA ramification
it would be nice if a few of our RFA got signed somewhere else. due to the post season success we had there will be a limit in the amount we can spend. therefore, if we want some solid players in free agency, we will have to lose some as well. we are gonna have to hope we retain the right ones.
Nice analysis.
I still think it is more than just a talent issue with this team. I know the current meme is to downplay the talent of the team in ‘07, but they were pretty damned good. Teams with mediocre talent don’t win 13 games. They’ve had talent. What they’ve lacked is killer instinct. For whatever reason this team has issues staying fiery from week to week. There are games where they just come out flat. That has little to do with talent. How a team plays from week to week is, in my opinion, generally on the head coach. He sets the tone for the team from the opening day of training camp until the end of the year. He has to be a manager of human beings. This isn’t Madden Football. You can have all of the talent in the world but a team that plays flat is going to have a hell of a time sustaining long-term success. An example from this season would be the early December games when it looked like same song, third verse. I think a large part of the 4 game win streak was due to hurt pride. These guys dug deep, got fired up, and were determined to prove everyone wrong (thank you Tony Dungy). They quit making as many mental mistakes. The only problem was that when they finally ended the playoff drought, they got satisfied. The attitude appeared to mirror the “we got this” of 2007 that led to the early bounce from the playoffs against a team they’d handled pretty easily twice before. Minnesota, on the other hand, looked like a team ready to whip somebody’s ass. The result can hardly be surprising.
So I agree that they should try and upgrade the talent—teams should always do that, but this team has to find a way to stay fired up. It’s a long season and I know it’s pretty damned hard to stay psyched for that many games, but great teams find a way to be ready for big games. We finally saw signs of that this season (especially from Romo, which was a huge factor in the team’s success). Whatever talent Wade gets or doesn’t get, he’s got to find a way to focus this team’s killer instinct. If he can do that, they’re capable of beating anybody they play (just like they have been the last 3 seasons).
"They got satisfied."
There is no indication that happened.
It wasn’t satisfaction that got them beat, it was a Minnesota defensive line that manhandled the O-line of Dallas.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 9:49 AM CST up reply actions
If it wasn't mental ...
then how else do you explain those guys turning into wussies all of the sudden? Did they look as fired up to you as they did against the Saints or the Iggles?
Turning into wussies?
I guess because they weren’t walking around pumping their fists they turned into wussies?
Everyone the entire week up was preaching that this was just the start and that they had more to accomplish.
But I’m sure from your 40 inch tv in where you were watching you could sense and feel all the emotion.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 9:57 AM CST up reply actions
No.
The OL turned into wussies because they got their asses whipped up and down the field. Why is the standard comeback always, “so they didn’t yell enough” or “they didn’t pump their fists”? That’s just silly. And a blind man could see they were losing the mental war last Sunday.
Talk is cheap. You can say you’re hungry all you want. To actually perform with heart is easy to see. Watch Witten or Brookings as examples of guys that go 110% every snap. Some guys seem to be primed that way. With others it takes an outside influence.
They...
“Turned into wussies”?
So when they are winning it’s because they are inspired and when they are getting beat it is because they aren’t inspired?
You can’t just get beat? That’s not possible?
The standard comeback is better than the bag of crap explanation you just threw on my doorstep.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 10:40 AM CST up reply actions
So it has to be all one way or the other?
When teams are equally fired up somebody obviously has to win, but where the talent is close you’ll usually see tight games that come down to the wire. Where similarly talented teams play and one gets blown out, it is usually attributable to intangibles. Saying Minnesota was much more talented is taking the easy way out. It’s basically making an excuse for not performing. How many tackles did the Cowboys miss? How many did the Vikes miss? Is their ability to tackle just that much better? Why does Sensebaugh not even look back on that 47 yard TD pass? Because Favre and the receiver are just that much more talented?
If the Cowboys played that game with the same fire they played with in New Orleans, maybe they don’t win (Minnesota was ready to play, after all), but they damned sure don’t get blown out 34-3. Minnesota is that much more talented? There’s your bag of crap.
Nothing is attributable to intangibles.
And yes, the Vikings’ defense excels at tackling; whereas, the Cowboys did not.
BTB League Consolation Ladder Champ...thought you knew.
by Aaron Novinger on Jan 20, 2010 10:49 AM CST up reply actions
How about this?!
How about instead of being FIRED up, you freaking execute!
Sensabaugh missing had nothing to do with WANTING it more, it was a lack of execution.
The same way when Brett Favre threw 6 interceptions against the Rams in 2001, I’m sure he freaking wanted to win the game and wasn’t just accepting defeat.
He just DIDN’T EXECUTE.
Passion has alot to do with it, but not everything.
Still a bag of crap, just like your repetitive condescending nature. How is it you’ve only been on this site a week, and your probably one of my least favorite posters already?
That’s a rhetorical question, don’t answer it, don’t respond to this post.
You’re right and I’m wrong! Now shut your cakehole.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
Your retorts are flaming bags of crap.
Sensebaugh made a mental error-a huge one. Teams that are ready to play, that are focused, dialed in and fired up don’t tend to make those kinds of errors.
You’re calling me condescending? Really? If so I’m wondering if you really understand what that word means.
Bro....
I know what it means.
I really wished you had never found this site.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
Fine.
If you know what it means, point that judgmental finger at yourself. Your arguments have been dismissive and basically boil down to “No it ain’t” without much of anything of substance to back it up. That’s being condescending.
Now weren’t you running along?
Dude...
You don’t freaking know me, and you have no right to talk to me like I’m a kid.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
Quit acting so wounded.
I responded to you in a much nicer tone than you have responded to me. I certainly didn’t say things like “I wish you had never found this board” to you. You initiated the insults with your comparison of my position to “bags of crap”. If you want to have a civil discussion, I’m all for it. If you’re going to act like a jerk, don’t expect sweetness in return. If I’ve offended you in the way I’ve responded to your attacks, tough shit—next time try civility.
Wounded?
You really don’t know me, just drop it man.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, wounded.
You don’t freaking know me, and you have no right to talk to me like I’m a kid.
Pretty much speaks for itself. Conversation dropped. Last retort is yours (you were obviously intent on taking it anyway).
"This bickering is pointless"--Grand Moff Tarkin
BTB League Consolation Ladder Champ...thought you knew.
by Aaron Novinger on Jan 20, 2010 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
lisenting to DC.com Lunch Break
looks like we are sending another player to the Pro Bowl….looks like either Romo, McBriar, Jenkins…I think it will be Romo…Favre isnt going…announcment coming later today
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
It might be Jenkins too.
DRC is hurt and out.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 11:19 AM CST up reply actions
Should be McB. He's way better than Andy-I-punt-so-often -Lee.
BTB League Consolation Ladder Champ...thought you knew.
by Aaron Novinger on Jan 20, 2010 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
Don't dork out!
BTB League Consolation Ladder Champ...thought you knew.
by Aaron Novinger on Jan 20, 2010 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
LOL
This is as condescending as it gets. I can’t believe you actually tried to defend yourself by wondering if Iron Fist knew what the word “condescending” means. I’m with Iron FIST. Can you find somewhere else to be condescending?
by LDVFootball on Jan 20, 2010 11:38 PM CST up reply actions
I asked a blind man I know
He said he was watching something else. I’ll keep trying though.
It’s impossible for you or any of us to kow what happened inside their heads. Is it really important that it involve their manhood instead of their physical abilities?
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
I heard that a guy's manhood is a physical ability.
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by Aaron Novinger on Jan 20, 2010 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
You can't watch a player and tell when he thinks he's whipped?
You can always judge a person’s mental state based upon their actions. The actions of the o-line might as well have been neon signs saying “We’re whipped”.
Being whipped is obvious, but not "no heart" or
I would question this statement:
You can always judge a person’s mental state based upon their actions
I think that’s pretty refutable, especially from the sofa in your living room.
What is probably true is that after being manhandled physically they felt defeated psychologically. That happens in sports a lot. You lose confidence and that accelerates getting overwhelmed. But that isn’t the same thing as wussing out or not wanting to win and doesn’t tell us mch about these individual players.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
We judge mental states based upon actions every day.
Perhaps I’m more attuned to it because of what I do for a living, but I tend to watch for things people do and analyze how they are indicative of their current mental state.
And again, please don’t equate my position as saying the don’t want to win. Everybody wants to win, but some want it much more than others. The line came out flat. Whether that was due to overconfidence or mental fatigue, I’m not sure, but they definitely lacked the fire that the guys across the line were showing and, for whatever reason, they couldn’t get it going as the game progressed. I think you are absolutely correct about them losing confidence as the game wore on—that was evident by the near total collapse in performance. What concerns me is the lack of fire when the game started.
what do you do for a living? just curious...........
are you a head shrink or something cause you’re getting into their mental psyche? According to the DC Network, our line is more of a finesse line and not a mauling line. The reason that we match up better with Philly is because we play them at least twice a year. Our shortcomings can be camouflouged easier because we know their team so well-the blitzes etc. We just got out-mauled on Sunday. A good example of that was when we kept trying to run the delay draw. It wasn’t successful was it? We aren’t physical enough to handle them. We were more successful on the edges with speed from Felix-not Barber-because he’s too slow.
by texstar on Jan 20, 2010 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m a lawyer.
I agree on our line not being a power line. JG has frequently had to scheme around their inability to knock other lines off of the LOS. Up until this week, the delay was pretty much all they had. The personnel definitely needs to be improved, I completely agree on that, but that line was still capable of holding their own against Minnesota and performing better than they did—especially in the passing game. Mentally they didn’t look prepared to me. And when Minnesota came out firing, they folded.
I’ll admit that I tend to put more stock in the mental aspects of football, particularly the intensity factor. Nothing happens independently in football. A team with a ton of talent and no fire won’t go far (same with a team that is all fire and no talent). I think a sharper edge gets the talent this team currently has over the top. That said, more talent certainly won’t hurt.
Case in Point
A team with a ton of talent and no fire won’t go far (same with a team that is all fire and no talent).
See Glanville, Jerry
see also Ryan, Buddy
LOL!!!
The Lyle Leong Bandwagon will Continue to Roll!!!
Respect Everyone....Fear No One!
Wreck 'em, Tech!
by Tortilla Pirate on Jan 20, 2010 3:30 PM CST up reply actions
Fire only goes so deep into a game
At some point superior talent will usually win out.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
I am also a lawyer
I was a federal prosecutor for 20 years and read a lot of witnessess and a lot of juries in that time. Your statement that you could tell they were mentally unprepared from watching the game is implausible.
LOL
Blammo!
Down goes Athos!
Drago says, "We must break you!"
by APerfectStar on Jan 20, 2010 11:04 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think there always has to be a
psychologcal reason behind failure. Often it is just what it seems – getting overwhelmed and never recovering your balance. I think the Vikes played a tough, physical game and the O-line couldn’t contain them. I doubt they suddenly stopped caring. But once you are getting whipped physically, it’s a really tough thing to regain composure.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
Matchups
This team matched up against New Orleans
It didn’t match up against Minnesota.
It’s the same reason Dallas could beat a Super Bowl Redskins team and got pasted by 32 points by a Lions team the Redskins killed the following week.
by Rafael Vela on Jan 20, 2010 10:11 AM CST up reply actions
It's the same reason Dallas took three from Philly and lost two to the Giants
It matches up very well against Philly’s lines and didn’t vs. New York’s receivers this year.
by Rafael Vela on Jan 20, 2010 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
I just don't buy into that kind of reasoning in a vacuum.
Like I said, it’s not a video game where a player is always going to play the same way. You’ve got live human beings playing and there are times when they are just flat. That’s why analysts talk about intangibles—which has not favored the Cowboys in recent years.
Those aren't analysts; those are commentators.
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by Aaron Novinger on Jan 20, 2010 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
ah, there you go
Flatness I can buy. Flatness does happen. But here’s the big difference.
Flatness isn’t voluntary, at least as I see it. Pro teams and college teams cannot get up to the same level week after week. It’s mentally exhausting.
But that’s NOT what you’ve been arguing. it’s “they turned into wussies.”
There, you’re questioning their character. That’s way off the mark.
I’ve seen Super Bowl teams come out flat and get pasted. It happens. This team may have turned the key and the engine didn’t catch. But I’m not going to drop matchups. They had THREE losses this year where they couldn’t top ten points. In each the line was overmatched.
That’s a trend in my book, and one which tells of a talent deficiency, not some lack of will.
by Rafael Vela on Jan 20, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
EX-freaking-ACTLY
Not wanting to win, and just not playing well is different.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
Who said they didn't "want to win"?
Nobody wants to lose. But winners find ways to avoid being flat. This team has had a bad habit of showing up flat, particularly late in the season—which I hope they’ve finally turned around this year.
.....
F this conversation.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 10:57 AM CST up reply actions
Are you this much of a knucklehead in all aspects of your life?
Why don’t you try acting like something other than a know-it-all when you show up here. Nobody minds a good disagreement but you’re just acting like a punk. You might find you could enjoy the debate here if you can find a way to stop insulting people who have posted here a long time and added a lot to the conversation
by StillHateTheGiants on Jan 20, 2010 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Look back and see who took the first shot before labeling me the punk.
I stated a position. It’s obviously not popular. Stating an unpopular position does not mean I acted like a punk. Until he took shots at me, I said nothing of a personal nature. I think responding in kind is a fair move on my part. I understand he gets the street cred here since I’m a newb and all, but look at the facts before jumping to an errant conclusion.
He's right.
I did fire the first shot.
The particular “emotion” argument has been beaten to death.
The statement was “The attitude appeared to mirror the "we got this" of 2007 that led to the early bounce from the playoffs against a team they’d handled pretty easily twice before.”, that possibly riled me up.
Bad reaction, maybe.
But the Cowboys didn’t get beat in 2007 because they didn’t want to play. They got beat because they were making stupid penalties(like they did all year.)
The defense was giving up silly plays (like they did all year).
Did they probably give up after they were down 20 points and play after play their QB was getting handled?
Sure. Lot of teams do.
BTW that Giants team that Dallas handled easily twice before wasn’t really that easy. They were two ten point wins but were 3 point games halfway through the fourth quarter before Romo hit two big passes. And that team went on to win the Super Bowl.
My arguments and discussions are more than “no it aint”.
The facts are that Dallas’s line has struggled against superior defensive fronts for the past two years. They just have.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
Make that three years
The playoff game with the giants was almost the same as the Minni. game. Romo ran all game long. Not from lack of effort , they just couldn’t handle the line pressure.
Nothing errant at all about my conclusion
You are an obnoxious punk. Instead of coming here and joining a debate you’ve decided it’s a “fair move” to act like an ass. Fine. Like the rest of your small life I’m sure you’ll be universally disliked here too. Enjoy.
by StillHateTheGiants on Jan 20, 2010 10:13 PM CST up reply actions
+1
I agree with your assessment, but I’m not a lawyer.
Drago says, "We must break you!"
by APerfectStar on Jan 20, 2010 11:06 PM CST up reply actions
+1
I agree with your assessment and I am a Professor, does that count?
by LDVFootball on Jan 20, 2010 11:44 PM CST up reply actions
I think they did relax
after the Eagles beatdown. There is no other explanation for the sloppy and basically uninspired play.
Here's an explanation...
…. maybe, just maybe. MINNESOTA BEAT THEIR ASS.
Kind of like the Eagles just got their ass’s beat.
Everyone is looking for an explanation, “they played without heart.” “they got satisfied”, how about they just got out executed and manhandled on the line?
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 9:59 AM CST up reply actions
Lot of circular arguements here
Boiled down, it appears to be the Talent vs Attitude camps. I believe it’s the former, whereas the latter is more applicable to football at the non-professional level. Not to say it has no relevance, but some doesn’t mean a lot.
I think it’s more palatable to ascribe failure to some personality flaw, then assign that flaw to an ‘accountable’ party/parties. Admitting you’re just not that good, and by that I mean good enough to be elite, takes bias out of the equation. And the solution is not as simple. I am in violent agreement with the points raised in the article, Talent needs to be upgraded in several key areas and we can’t afford to be sentimental about the consequence.
I'm not losing my memory, I'm living in the now
I agree with you and most of the posters here
that fall in the “talent camp”. However, I think that some attention should be paid to execution and the mental aspect of that game. That game was a blow out and the difference in the talent between those two teams is not that stark (and to be honest, an argument can be made that it favored us). When I think of championship teams I think of teams that go in week in, week out for 60 minutes – with very few penalties, very few blown assignments and very few mental farts by the coaches (i.e. calling for Suisham to try a 48 yarder).
So while I am proud of this team this season and have great hopes for next season, I cannot ignore that part of this teams weakness as of now is they don’t fully have that intangible trait that gets you over the top. The way things improved from last year to this year, I am confident that they will get it though.
by RisingSunCowboy on Jan 21, 2010 3:32 AM CST up reply actions
+1
Minnesota is the better team. Bottom line. If they played 10 times, Dallas would win a few … but Minny’s the better team right now.
True, but Dallas is good enough that the game should have been competitive
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
Games get out of hand all the time between 2 good teams
A couple things happen and all of the sudden it gets out of hand. AZ kicked the Vikings butt a couple weeks ago too. It happens.
by StillHateTheGiants on Jan 20, 2010 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
Yep
Same thing with the Ravens beatdown of the Pats.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 2:42 PM CST up reply actions
I agree although I will say
if they played again, they might still lose but they would play better. Sometimes you get knocked back on your heels and never recover your balance.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
its definitely possible
if we score a td on one of the first two drives, maybe some pressure goes on minnesota. And obviously, Flo going down was a killer.
But honestly, they looked flat out better than us, just like we looked better than Philly. If we play again, I doubt we put up more than 17 points at most.
sloppy and uninspired?
did you just start watching this team in december? Its not sloppy and uninspired, its the line being overmatched against a great pass rushing D. It happened against GB. Against Philly midseason we had 13 before the bomb to austin. Against washington we really struggled to score, though they don’t rush the passer really well.
Minnesota was likely the best D we faced since GB, and its no coincidence the results were very similar.
So there are 3-4 positions that truly need to be addressed
in order to keep improving – OL, DL, S, and possibly WR. Probably in that order.
Some possible solutions could be on the bench. Others will need to be addressed via the draft or free agency. If they improve in 2 of these positions then they will be in a great position to succeed.
It’s nice to have a first round choice. How many other picks do they have in the 2010 draft?
Lets not forget about Kicker....
Agree the OL, DL, S and possibly WR….but going to need someone to put it thru the uprights!
by Leithal Weapon on Jan 20, 2010 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
On the money
I posted almost the exact same comment on another thread.
Drago says, "We must break you!"
by APerfectStar on Jan 20, 2010 11:08 PM CST up reply actions
Great Article
and I definitely agree on all points.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
I go back to a thread at the beginning of the season
Which compared Talent – position by position, for each of the NFC East teams. I don’t recall the specifics, but generally, DAL ranked in the middle of the pack. Other than DWare, Ratliff and Witten I can’t think of a clear Best in Division player at their position. Ironically, Folk may have been one. But then again, so might Cllnton Portis or B Jacobs then as well.
I digress. Romo might get some consideration, and perhaps Felix, but there isn’t a clear edge with either. Anyone on the OLine? Defensive backfield? Naturally, the list gets even shorter when you raise the bar to the NFC or entire NFL level. Because that’s what we aspire to. There’s the honest assessment we need to get to the next level.
I’m not arguing you need to be Best at every position, I am arguing you need to be Better at several.
I'm not losing my memory, I'm living in the now
The elephant in the room is our gaping hole at tackel
both Colombo and Flozell can not be relied upon for the future. how do we fill that need though? Free will do at RT and maybe even left but I do not see a resolution within the draft or through free agency.
Tackle is an issue
Free played well and I hope Colombo’s issues were just the fact that he was rushed back from an injury. Not sure I agree with the second part of the comment though. The best way to resolve the issue would be the draft or FA.
Two tackles...
Is a tough ask for one offseason.
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by accidental innuendo on Jan 20, 2010 7:56 PM CST up reply actions
Foresight
Team scouts know 2-3 years in advance what position will be a strength in each draft. Me thinks they’ve (Ciskowski & team) have kept their eyes on certain players throughout the season, which does affect how they drafted last year. As Raf and others have pointed out, this draft is deep at those positions (OL, DE, S) that the Cowboys need to revamp most. Indeed, that is no coincidence.
After missing out on Unger and Alex Mack last year, they gambled that the aging line would go injury and that gamble worked (other than Colombo). At FS, Ball was able to hold down the fort while Hamlin was out; and at DE, Bowen proved to be an asset.
Going into this draft, the staff has set itself up nicely in order to grab some additional talent at those positions—talent that they’ve most likely had narrowed down going into last year’s draft.
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by Aaron Novinger on Jan 20, 2010 10:45 AM CST reply actions
I just hope
for selfish reasons, that they don’t trade down in the 1st. I get a little tired of waiting hours for the Boys to pick … then they trade down and I gotta wait longer!!!!!
Haha
Even when it is the right move, I hate it.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah
it would suck to wait an entire day now if they trade out of the first too.
by DoomsdayD75 on Jan 20, 2010 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
I had this thought today and it really cheered me up...
What if Jerry convinced the senile Al Davis, a friend of sorts, to trade us their 1st round pick in the draft for our pick and a player?
With that pick, we’d have a clear shot at an elite prospect at OT. I will keep cheering myself up with this thought until either it happens or we pick someone with the 27th pick.
by LDVFootball on Jan 20, 2010 11:49 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly. And, I know just what Jerry should say to make the trade happen...
First, put Al in the mood by reliving with him the glory days of the Raiders, but don’t mention the name of Marcus Allen. With Al in the appropriate non-drug-induced dreamy state, Jerry can now suggest that it could be like that all over again if only, if only… (drum roll please) he had one more playmaker, a receiver to “compliment” JaMarcus Russell. Now, with Jerry’s accent he can make “compliment” sound just like “complement.” Not that it matters with Al’s poor hearing and all. And, it’s true. Jerry wouldn’t be lying one bit. While Roy has yet to shine in this offense we know how good he is in press interviews at shining (complimenting) the behind of the quarterback and OC. I think i’ve convinced myself now that this trade is indeed going to happen.
*injury free
BTB League Consolation Ladder Champ...thought you knew.
by Aaron Novinger on Jan 20, 2010 10:46 AM CST reply actions
LOL I remember that Washington game in '91!!
I was delivering pizzas for Pizza Inn that day, it was my Senior year in high school, and I listened to the game while I was driving from ghetto apartment complex to ghetto apartment complex. Sweet, crappy tip memories.
Greetings from the Humungus, the Ruler of the Wasteland, the Ayatollah of Rock and Roll-A. I laugh at your puny plans.
Pizza Inn
Where are you from?
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
mmmmm...pizza
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by Aaron Novinger on Jan 20, 2010 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
Flame Suit ON.....But,
We have THREE good running backs. Personally my favorite back is Felix Jones. TC is a great change of pace back.
Why not trade Barber for some WR talent. Roy Williams is NOT gettin the job done
The Lyle Leong Bandwagon will Continue to Roll!!!
Respect Everyone....Fear No One!
Wreck 'em, Tech!
by Tortilla Pirate on Jan 20, 2010 11:44 AM CST reply actions
All this trade Barber talk is stupid
The guy plays injured the entire season (since week 2 vs Giants) and everyone wants to trade him because he wasn’t his normal self. I certainly don’t agree with the way the team handled his injury because of the other backs we have in place, but the guy played as hard as he could considering his quad was shot. Let him get healthy in the off season and he’ll be back to being the punishing force that he is. Now that El Gato has emerged, Barber’s role next year will most likely be the finisher role and he will excel. When the dude is healthy there’s no argument that he’s one of the most violent runners in the game. Don’t let an injury plagued season blind you from the truth.
No at all!!!
I think Barber is great.
Just consider what do we need more? THREE RBs or a decent compliment to Austin?
The Lyle Leong Bandwagon will Continue to Roll!!!
Respect Everyone....Fear No One!
Wreck 'em, Tech!
by Tortilla Pirate on Jan 20, 2010 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
Ok I guess I took what you wrote the wrong way
I’m just tired of reading posts with “Barber has lost a step” and “Barber will never be the same runner he once was” I should have responded elsewhere. Anyways, I see where you’re coming from but what receiver could we get for Barber that would be worth trading him?
Draft Picks, my friend
there are SO many teams running spread offenses that there have to be plenty of WRs coming outta college. R Williams is just not getting the job done.
The cowboys have plenty of receivers that were stunted in their development (Hurd, Crayton, & Ogletree) because of the Williams trade or the presence of Owens before that. Have them develop or put a trade package together for a YOUNG receiver. No Terry Glenn’s. No Joey Galloways. No T Owens.
The Lyle Leong Bandwagon will Continue to Roll!!!
Respect Everyone....Fear No One!
Wreck 'em, Tech!
by Tortilla Pirate on Jan 20, 2010 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
If we are going to draft a wide receiver it would be stupid to trade
Barber for draft picks. Wide receivers have the toughest adjustment going from college to pro than any other position, and as a result drafting them is a crapshoot. I’d hate to think that we would trade away a valuable part of our team for a gamble. If you want to draft a WR why not just use one of the picks we already have? Or pick up another badass rookie FA :)
In the end theres no way we’re trading Barber so none of this talk even really matters.
Take your pick
draft picks, Offensive linemen, or wide receivers. We need all three.
WRs we know we need.
Picks are in short supply due to the Williams trade.
and Offensive Linemen we need cuz they aint gettin any younger.
Im ok with drafting a via the carpet bombing technique for wide receivers (existing picks or FA Rookies) as we did last year in LB’s and DE’s.
as for your assertion that
theres no way we’re trading Barber
thats my whole point. We need to think of something BIG that will shake up the organization and get us what could possibly end up being a BIG INFUSION of talent
The Lyle Leong Bandwagon will Continue to Roll!!!
Respect Everyone....Fear No One!
Wreck 'em, Tech!
by Tortilla Pirate on Jan 20, 2010 1:11 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah but what if it doesn't
Some of our latest first round picks have turned into studs (with the exception of caveman) but after that there is a significant falloff. If I thought we had the organization that could parlay a player’s value (through the middle rounds of the draft) I’d be all for it but I just don’t see it happening here.
If
…is no reason not to do it. And just because its unlikely, doesnt mean its not a good idea.
Like you, I think its unlikely to happen. Im just trying to think outside the box here.
Everyone thought in unlikely we would ever trade Herschel Walker. In this day and (free agency) age a blockbuster deal like that will never happen. But this WOULD be, relatively speaking, today’s equivalent of a blockbuster deal. If we could get 40% of the value of the famous Walker deal, we’d make out like bandits.
The Lyle Leong Bandwagon will Continue to Roll!!!
Respect Everyone....Fear No One!
Wreck 'em, Tech!
by Tortilla Pirate on Jan 20, 2010 2:51 PM CST up reply actions
PS:
the reason I propose this trade now is because now is the best time to get the maximum value for him
The Lyle Leong Bandwagon will Continue to Roll!!!
Respect Everyone....Fear No One!
Wreck 'em, Tech!
by Tortilla Pirate on Jan 20, 2010 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
It's a moot point.
Barber is on such a large contract that it would be almost impossible to move him.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
It's the Coach and Quarterback Stupid
Wade Phillips has neither a swagger or a snarl. He’s a defensive coordinator, not the optimal leader for the most visible franchise in professional sports. Landry had the snarl and Johnson has the swagger… this team will continue to produce acceptable, yet mediocre results as long as Phillips is the general of the Cowboys.
Secondly, look at the QBs remaining. Three number one picks, and another one taken with the first pick of the second round. This is a QB driven league and premium currency has to be thrown at the most important position in all of sports is the franchise has Super Bowl aspirations moving forward. Now is the time to invest in a first-round QB for the future, even if he has to sit on the bench for years like the kid in Green Bay.
Strangely
That second paragraph was written like a normal person.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
it does make sense doesn't it?
ya gotta give Green Bay credit. They are one of the few teams that have been able to put in another QB (after a long run by Favre) and not regress tremendously. The other team that did it successfully was Montana/Young. I don’t think I’d give up a 1st Round pick yet, but you do want to start grooming someone.
McGee is getting groomed
"We play to win the game" - Herm Edwards
by nicholas.rodriguez on Jan 20, 2010 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
true........
I don’t know about McGee. Hopefully, he’s not as far behind as Bennett. It’s really quite sad, that Franchione didn’t develop his players at A&M. A good example of developing is McNabb/Kolb. If Philly does it properly, Kolb has the potential of being a much better QB than McNabb imo
Questions for Tex
Did Landry still have the “snarl” when he was 1-5 in his first six playoff games?
How did Johnson’s “swagger” serve him when he coached the Miami Dolphins?
If this is a QB-driven league how did the Jets get to the AFC Championship round considering Mark Sanchez is universally regarded as a poor NFL QB at this point in his career?
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Jan 20, 2010 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
He didn't really need it.
What he had was a commanding presence that players respected and followed. He’s proof it doesn’t take a shouter to be a good leader of men. Of course, we don’t know how he would have fared in this day and age where players get paid so much and have better job security because of the dollars they command. It would be fun to see though.
Players respected him because of his game knowledge
he was despised by a great sector of this former players. Even the guys who thrived under him, like Staubach, felt he was cold, and unnecessarily callous. A lot of his former players felt he got his comeuppance when Jerry fired him. One, I think it was Craig Morton, said, “Tom got fired the way he used to fire players.”
He would never last today. He would be sucessful, but he would
a. never get ten years to get it right;
b. be run out the door by any organization after losing so many big playoff games;
He would be the modern day Marty Schottenheimer. And oddly enough, Schottenheimer is the guy Tex Schramm wants as Tom’s successor.
What players despised Landry?
I think you’re way off base on Landry. I don’t know where you got your info, but I’ve read alot of books on the Landry years and none of the said any of this. Man you’re in left field on this statement. As far as not lasting in today football I respectfully completely disagree. He had the best football mind ever IMO.
I can't remember who, but I recall reading that
when Landry got canned several players had a drunken celebration. I think it was in the Pearlman book.
I think everyone respected Landry, but I think he was overripe when he got canned.
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 20, 2010 5:45 PM CST up reply actions
I guess some players in later years might not had the same
view of Landry that the SB players did, but even Hollywood has said that Tom was a great coach and a great man.
Yeah
I think it was Boys Will be Boys.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 5:54 PM CST up reply actions
I've heard before that he was very matter of fact or emotionless
I think many of his former players saw that as being cold or ruthless.
He was a great football mind but how many owners would keep a coach after a five year record of 18-46-4 before he finally went 7-7 in his sixth year. He was also known as not being able to win the big one for many years.
Landry took over a NFL expansion team in
1960 the year AFC started up. Back then new teams didn’t the same deal they get now. The NFL gave Dallas a few cast off players, from there you were on your on. Dallas had to compete with the NFL and the upstart AFC for players. The player pool was a lot smaller. The job Landry did to make Dallas a contender as soon as he did was nothing short of amazing
They were not a "contenders" untl their 7th year
and even then Landry had a 1 – 4 playoff record in his first 10 years. I think you also have to give Gil Brandt credit for giving Landry the talent he needed to succeed .
I’m just saying that I agree that yes Landry was a genius but would have never had the opportunity to prove it in the quick results oriented game today.
Oddly enough, it sounds like you are describing Bill Belichek
Drago says, "We must break you!"
by APerfectStar on Jan 20, 2010 11:30 PM CST up reply actions
As to being despised, the simple answer is "Who cares?".
A good HC isn’t supposed to be loved, he’s supposed to be followed. I don’t think anyone can argue that his players wouldn’t perform for him. Give me the cold guy that commands respect and wins games over the “buddy” coach any day.
What QB out there
is going to be able to make plays when he is getting hit on every play and might have 2 seconds for his WRs to get open??
"We play to win the game" - Herm Edwards
by nicholas.rodriguez on Jan 20, 2010 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
Two
Frank Cushman and Shane Falco
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 2:06 PM CST up reply actions
Will Tim Tebow be available in the 2nd round?
Just kidding. No way should the Cowboys use any of their first day picks on a QB, when they other pressing matters.
LOL...I'm still trying to picture Tom Landry snarling.
My lasting memory of the guy is just standing there expressionless.
I am not going to say too much out here today..because it seems alot of folks out here..
Are mighty “testy” today..but I think Tom Landry was one of the best coaches in the history of the game.
I've been called the same recently
Sometimes life, work and sports don’t mix. But you are one of the most respectful posters here, so no fear Bobbi…
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
Clint Eastwood for coach!
He’s got the look some are looking for.
"The greatest test of courage on earth is to bear defeat without losing heart."
I think it's dangerous to compare the '91 vs '09 teams
Because it can raise expectations unreasonably. Part of the trouble that the NFC East winner faces is that in addition to playing the next year in a tough division, they have to also play the other division winners. Anyone think Minnesota, Arizona, and New Orleans will drop of next year? Let’s hope old QB’s retire, eh?
Great write-up though. I agree that this team needs infusions of talent, but it’s different than most teams that need that. Most of the time, that’s saying you have a bad team because you need starters. That’s not the case here, where the Cowboys have few players (outside of Roy Williams) who consistently perform poorly. Sure the O-line made their mistakes/penalties, but they really only got dominated a few times this season and that was generally against good defensive lines/fronts.
This team needs a infusion of talent at specific positions (OL especially) because it is deep at certain positions (RB, WR, OLB) and because they have little depth behind average starters at other positions (MLB, OG, S, OT). Say you draft 2 guys at each of the positions of need, that gives you depth, but also increases the odds that one of the draftees can outplay the starter.
Thanks the Cowboys good health in 2009, they essentially have the 2009 and 2010 draft classes to address depth. Thank goodness they didn’t have to rely just on the 2009 draft class, because I think most of those guys (Buehler excluded) needed time to develop.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
It's too bad...
that the Cowboys couldn’t have traded Marion Barber to some hapless team for a handful of 1st and 2nd round picks.
Otherwise you might be on to something with the ’91 and ’09 comparisons.
(hint: you need your own version of the Herschel Walker ripoff before you can create another dynasty)
Are you suggesting that the Eagles want Barber? Ha ha...
by Mr._Mulligan on Jan 20, 2010 4:16 PM CST up reply actions
Why not?
They gotta replace Westbrook
The Lyle Leong Bandwagon will Continue to Roll!!!
Respect Everyone....Fear No One!
Wreck 'em, Tech!
by Tortilla Pirate on Jan 20, 2010 5:11 PM CST up reply actions
PS:
Barber for Maclin
The Lyle Leong Bandwagon will Continue to Roll!!!
Respect Everyone....Fear No One!
Wreck 'em, Tech!
by Tortilla Pirate on Jan 20, 2010 5:12 PM CST up reply actions
Opposed to...
they dynasty that the Eagles have had?
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 4:17 PM CST up reply actions
4 round mock
1. Corey Wootton, DE/DT, Northwestern
2. Morgan Burnett, FS, Georgia Tech
3. J.D. Walton, C, Baylor
4. Will Barker, OT, Virginia
wooten in the first??
If they don’t go oline in the first round I’d be shocked.
by alanTdot. on Jan 20, 2010 11:37 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Haha-- would love to see my alma matter get another first rounder, but Wootton is a bit of a reach there.
Not sure he’s gonna be a great pro. He’s no Luis Castillo.
Larry Allen benched 700 pounds. That is Leonard Davis times two.
Additions
1. Bring back Adam Jones as the 4th corner. He hasn’t gotten in any trouble in years. And if something happens to your 4th corner it doesn’t cripple your team … you always have Alan Ball. With the prevelence of 4 WR sets I think that would be a great benefit and hopefully he could replace Scandrick at some point. I like the risk / reward potential.
And bc I know there are a bunch of un-analytical people on this board who will say Adam was bad with no evidence, here are the cornerback metrics from the 2008 season
YPA = Yards per attempt when thrown at
Success % = % incompletions forced when thrown at
Player: YPA / Success %
Jones: YPA (6.2) / 44.2%
Jenkings: YPA (5.3) / 44.7%
Scandrick: YPA (5.6) / 48.6%
Newman: YPA (8.3) / 40.4%
and yes, I know Scandrick has the best metrics, small sample size though.
2. Defensive line hog. I’d like more dynamic players than Spears and Olshansky. If the defense is really going to dominate then we need d-linemen who can bull rush OTs right into the QB. I think it’s just too much of a handicap to have 2 linemen who are no threat to rush the pasher. The guy I really like is Marcell Dareus on Bama. I know he’s not coming out this year so i’d like to see Dallas trade this year’s 1st round for an extra 1st round pick next year.
3. O line hogs.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Jan 20, 2010 5:11 PM CST reply actions
I know Adam's metrics
I also watched every tape of every game he played.
No. Thank. You.
Guy freelanced. Jumped every short route and got toasted on double moves. Played man when the team was playing zone behind him.
Got destroyed, absolutely destroyed by Chad Ochocinco in a year where “The Ocho” was down.
The guy wasn’t just dumb in hotel bathrooms. He was a buffoon on the field. A talented buffoon, but one who you could not trust to play his assignments.
Every tape
I didn’t see his Titans game. I did see all of his Dallas games and to my eye he looked much better than Scandrick. He was also off for a year and one step slow from interceptions on a dozen occasions. I’d like to see what he could do without any rust as the 4th corner.
However, it’s pointless to discuss our subjective observations. You have bias that colors what you saw and I have bias that color what I saw (which is why I think he looked great and you think he looked bad). The stats don’t lie though.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Jan 21, 2010 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
7 passes defened and 0 INTs certainly don't lie.
Pac simply was not a good player ON the Cowboys or FOR the Cowboys.
They don’t go after guys with character issues anymore. That’s why Percy Harvin and DeSean Jackson were not on their draft boards, and both those guys can at least play professional football.
There’s more than one reason why Pac is not on an NFL roster.
BTB League Consolation Ladder Champ...thought you knew.
by Aaron Novinger on Jan 21, 2010 1:30 PM CST up reply actions
Bingo.
There’s more than one reason why Pac is not on an NFL roster.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 21, 2010 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
+1.........
Fisher also knew that Pacrat was over-rated when he let him go. He knew that Finnegan was a much better player than Pac to begin with. If he didn’t have Finnegan in his back pocket, he never would have let Pac go imo. Basically, we got suckered.
Better than Ball and Scandrick
My argument is a pretty modest claim. Jones would be better than Scandrick and Ball. Not the best corner on the team, not the 2nd best. Just better than the 4th corner and hopefully better than the 3rd corner.
Do you really think Scandrick is better than Jones? Rewatch the first Giants game this year if you believe that.
So yes, I think Jones was better than Scandrick and I’d love to see what he could do if he wasn’t coming off a year lay-off.
And yes, I’m stunned that with his talent he isn’t in the NFL.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Jan 21, 2010 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
yes, Scandrick is much better than Jones
who was one of the most overrated players in the history of the game
In Romo we Trust
Coming from Terry
one of the most over-exaggerating posters in the history of the game.
RW is the opposite of WR. Coincidence? I think not.
by aussie_cowboy on Jan 21, 2010 8:18 PM CST up reply actions
Discipline
Pacster thought he was above playing within the system. Yes, his talent level was high, but if you don’t play within the system you are more hindrance than help.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
And
In 2006 Jones led the NFL in punt returns.
There’s a reason why I’d like to see them bring back Jones and I wouldn’t want them to bring back Roy Williams, TO, or Tank.
You might not like Jones … my view is that he brought a lot to the table as a football player.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Jan 21, 2010 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think you'll have anyone that will argue talent.
But he freelances quite a bit and he’s a troublemaker.
Scandrick definitly did get beat by Steve Smith bad this year, but it wasn’t as if Pac never got burned.
Desean Jackson ran right past him in the first Eagles game of last year.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 21, 2010 3:07 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know about that.
Having talent and being able to use it is different.
He had the physical talent, just lacked the mental aspect of the game and I don’t think he really wanted to develop.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 21, 2010 5:00 PM CST up reply actions
Hard to find good corners
you might find this interesting.
it’s a list of starting NFL corners and their draft position.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Agk02f2ctUQLdFo2X1pjUk4tT1RNMUpVQlFUclZleXc&hl=en
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Jan 21, 2010 5:22 PM CST up reply actions
agree completely about being very talented.........
like you said he didn’t work hard enough to develop into a better player. His talent was very raw. My opinion is he is one of those guys that could get through school on his raw talent and never had to work on it. When he got to the NFL, he wasn’t willing to put in the extra work that it takes to become elite. Mentally I don’t think he gets it. Unfortunately, it isn’t just on the field, but off the field as well.
Terry
please let me know the next time Scandrick leads the nfl in punt returns or takes back a pick for a TD
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Jan 21, 2010 5:11 PM CST up reply actions
Did you watch Pac attempt to return punts for Dallas?
Horrible. The absolute worst punt returner in the NFL that season with under 5 yds a return.
If Pac was as good as you think, wouldn’t he have been in the NFL last season instead of on the cable show Joe’s vs Pros?
Drago says, "We must break you!"
by APerfectStar on Jan 21, 2010 6:33 PM CST up reply actions
Yes
Here are my points:
-The stats indicate he was a decent corner for Dallas in 08’, after a year off from football.
-That’s consistent with how I saw him play. He was close to making multiple big plays
-He led the NFL in punt returns in 2006
-He was the 5th pick overall
-It’s hard to find impact corners without investing a 1st round pick
Put that all together, that he’s only 27 and he hasn’t been in trouble in 2 years, and to me there’s enough to suggest that he could be a viable NFL player, especially if he hadn’t just spent a year out of football.
He knows he on his last chance and there’s a big difference in maturity between 24 year olds and 27 year olds.
And yes, I’m stunned that he’s not in the NFL. I’ll save this post though bc I think that he’ll be back in the NFL next year and we’ll get to see how he does.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Jan 21, 2010 7:21 PM CST up reply actions
Fair enough
Drago says, "We must break you!"
by APerfectStar on Jan 22, 2010 5:40 AM CST up reply actions
I'll bet my left nut he isn't...
and i’m not paying that if he is haha
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 22, 2010 3:33 PM CST up reply actions
purpose of the post
also this post was about how to upgrade talent.
the reality is it’s going to be hard to find a better talent than Adam Jones with the 27th pick in the first round.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Jan 21, 2010 7:40 PM CST up reply actions
I think you guys ought to do what we're doing..
Take a position by position approach to make a fan determination on where the weaknesses are..Not that it would matter at all…I mentioned yesterday that the NFC East this year will come down to Romo and Manning..Some dude asked why I put Eli on that short list, which I quickly concluded was just fan talk..The truth of the matter is they both posted career-high numbers..and have taken over the leadership roles on their teams..Now, they need to figure out what needs to be done to compliment that.
I liked that statement Bobbi.
You’re by far my favorite fan of another team on this board.
I saw you mention that, but I really think that the shortcomings of both teams aren’t QB.
I’d say offensive line for Dallas and defensive line/secondary for the Giants.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 20, 2010 5:42 PM CST up reply actions
agreed
I think Eli and Romo are top 10 qbs. The problems with these teams aren’t their qb, and their success/failure won’t be because of the qbs. I agree with you – defensively, the giants were a mess last season. They are really weak at lb. Its hard to know what to do at DL for them – guys like Tuck, Osi, Robbins were great/good players. Canty and Bernard did like nothing. Alford was supposed to be a monster this year and he got hurt preseason.
This is a fantastic article. I have often wondered whether the staff got too
attached to players and kept them around too long. You’ve debunked that. Now, as you say, it’s time for the spotlight to be turned on the O line.
And thanks for the walk down memory lane. I remember well watching Charles Haley make a huge difference for the D when he came on. I hope this team sees the same follow up next year that those Cowboys had in ’92.
Well I really appreciate that Immortal..and you are right on..
QB on both these teams are not the problem..I agree your O-line needs some help and our D-line at the DT position and our secondary needs help..I frankly feel that your team has less issues then we do..and I appreciate the comment regarding me stopping by to say something..I just call it like I see it…and I’ll never dis-respect you folks..We are alll football fans.
Gross generalization about Giants fanbase
About 1000% less annoying than Eagles and Skins fanbases.
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 20, 2010 6:27 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not sure what you mean..but I only post comments here and on my site..
The other ones are just too ..How do I say it..Unintellectual for me….(Geez I hope I spelled that right!!)
Sorry
just saying Giants fans are generally tolerable despite the strong rivalry. You are obviously welcome here, and in general I would expect a Giants fan to come on and be reasonable and want to talk football, and a Skins or Eagles fan to talk crap.
It is a compliment. Comments from other fans are always welcome when they are offered in good faith because the unemotional views are often better.
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 20, 2010 6:43 PM CST up reply actions
No need to apologize..we're on the same wave-length..
And yes we all saw our teams play each other and we all saw what was lacking…but the bottom-line is hopefully our coaches did..that is what we all want.
Bobbi
Your input is always welcome. Adding another point of view can’t be bad. Thanks for stopping by.
I enjoy a reasonable outsiders view that isn't tainted with hate.
Bobbi is welcome here in my book, along with some others. You just have to read their posts to see if they’re being honest or just posting something to stir things up. He isn’t.
"The greatest test of courage on earth is to bear defeat without losing heart."
I love getting input from opposing fans
they have a different perspective that can only be helpful
by I_miss_Switzer on Jan 20, 2010 8:40 PM CST up reply actions
Great respect for Bobbi
and some other fans that come on here. The people that come on here to tell us we’re idiots for being Cowboys fans, I could do without. I personally don’t find it a character flaw that people root for other teams.
Really good article
I think it’s a great comparison to draw between 1991 and 2009 teams.
Lots of similarities in their surrounding circumstances. I hope the outcomes of the following off season and 2010 season will follow the same path of improvement and success as 1992 did.
Drago says, "We must break you!"
Both Kosier and Columbo were beat all day last Sunday
Flo is old as well and losing a step. New blood is needed, this year at least at two of those spots. Free may be the answer for one, the other?
by torchindefenses on Jan 21, 2010 6:23 PM CST reply actions
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