Analysis of Roy Williams trade.
To start, I'd like to say that the tone of this post will actually be in defense of the trade regardless of all of the available hindsight.
First of all, the trade was Roy Williams and a 7th (210th overall) round pick for a 1st round pick (20th overall), a 3rd round pick (82nd overall), and a 6th round pick (192nd overall). I think most people would agree that the difference between the 6th and 7th round picks is negligible in terms of value. The old Jimmy Johnson chart actually has the difference as 7.2 points which is about the worth of a 7th round pick.
So if you accept that the late round picks are a wash, then you are basically looking at the 1st and 3rd round picks. The following year, 2009, Roy Williams was scheduled to be an unrestricted free agent. So you can come to the conclusion that both picks were wasted. It should be noted that teams rarely give up players without some value in return. I refer you to Matt Cassel who was franchised by the Patriots and traded for a 2nd round pick. I also will remind you of many articles that suggest that the Patriots took too low an offer as they could have easily have received a 1st round pick in a 3 way trade involving the Broncos.
Either way, the new front office regime in Detroit would unlikely just let Roy Williams walk away with only a compensatory pick coming back to them. So Roy would be franchised and while Detroit would not refuse any offer less than two 1st round picks, the market value for him would probably be a first round pick. Who would be the players involved, the Cowboys, the Redskins, and the Giants. While it would be unlikely they would offer a 1st and 2nd or better, it's not inconceivable that a 1st and 4th would be put on the table, and with the Redskins you never know, they could have traded a 1st, two 3rds, and a 2nd in 2011. Great you say, he would be their problem now.
Problem you say? There was a problem on the 2008 Cowboys team who created a less than harmonious locker room vibe. With Roy signing elsewhere, the WR staff prior to the draft would have included TO, Crayton, Austin, and Hurd. with that talent in place, do you believe that Jerry Jones would have banished TO to the nether regions of Buffalo? TO was a scape goat in what was an injury riddled 2008 team, but the man also couldn't keep his mouth shut and I don't believe ever took personal responsibility for his poor play. With that talent in place, 2009 may have been a replica of 2007 (13-3), but it also could have been a replica of 2006 (a playoff team without a playoff victory).
Roy Williams acted liked a "co-factor" (for those biology fans out there) and aided in the jettisoning of TO. While the team isn't in the Super Bowl, they certainly seemed headed in the right direction.
Now back to the picks. With Roy elsewhere, maybe a WR is a priority in the draft. We all know that Maclin fell to the later portion of the round. Keep in mind though, that the Eagles traded up into the 19th spot (one spot ahead of the Lions where the Cowboys would have been drafting). Maybe the Eagles snake Maclin from the Cowboys if Jerry was being patient, or maybe the Cowboys trade up into the first round and get him. The funny thing is that if they trade up (as the previous 3 picks (17, 18, & 19) the team traded down), they would literally be trading a first and a third and getting back a 4th if you follow the value chart. So the difference in value here is really the value of a 4th round pick.
In an ideal world, what would happen is that we would pick up Roy Williams as a free agent, not having to give any picks to Detroit, send TO a Dear John letter, and then Philly picks Maclin and we subsequently take Michael Oher at left tackle, then in the 2nd round, take Phil Loadholt for RT (both of which started this year and played very well), and then moved Doug Free (who also played well) to guard. Suddenly, we have the same WR corp, and a completely young and refurbished offensive line. But that is a tangent that is wholly not connected to the real world.
To surmise, the production on the field is what makes this a god awful trade. Roy hasn't produced at the level of a 3rd rounder, let alone a 1st and 3rd. But as a trade is concerned, it wasn't that bad. The sixth and the seventh are a wash, the 3rd rounder would have been necessary if trading up in the first round and the Cowboys only overpaid by a 4th rounder, and while you can play the what if game all day long, it's not outside of the realm of possibility that we would have thrown away those picks on players that wouldn't be on the team in 2 years (James Marten, Isaiah Stanbeck, Anthony Fasano, Kevin Burnett, Jacob Rogers, Stephen Peterman, Al Johnson, Antonio Bryant, Derek Ross...)
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Well written...
but I don’t know why we continue to dwell on this.
It’s over.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 27, 2010 9:36 AM CST reply actions
I like to get my thoughts on "paper".
Especially when I read others proclaiming it as the worst trade ever. I can easily refer them to my analysis. I have also done the same thing with Romo not being solely to blame for the playoff losses to the Seahawks and the Giants.
lol
The only people claiming it was the worst trade ever are haters.
It was a bad trade no doubt, even really bad. But it certainly didn’t cripple us.
MacGruber!
True.
I’d have to say the Herchel Walker Trade was the worst trade ever. I know they sent players our way, but Jimmy absolutely knew he wasn’t keeping any of them and the amount of picks they sent back our way is just mind boggling.
It didn’t cripple them either, but I don’t know how you ever recover from that.
Yeah yeah...
I wasn’t meaning to come off as an asshole either.
I liked it, and I agree with it, but can’t change the past now.
Will Roy get better? Maybe, who knows, but the first and third are gone.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 27, 2010 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
Maybe not cripple
But who knows? Perhaps the Cowboys could have got someone at the 20th spot that would have been the difference maker Roy did not turn out to be (perhaps it did cost us a SB). Bottom line is that it is hard to calculate just how bad this trade was because of the all the variables.
But worse than the trade, in my opinion, was the quick signing of RW to the new contract. It was unnecessary and could cost us down the road.
by Dave Chappelle Jr. AKA Felix Jones on Jan 28, 2010 11:19 AM CST up reply actions
I remember my argument back at the time of that deal was that Roy Williams had never really procuded in Detroit to warrant that trade...
Through 4 and a half seasons (at the time), these were his numbers…
2004 – 54-817-8 (nice season for a rookie)
2005 – 45-687-8 (highly disappointing 2nd year)
2006 – 82-1310-7 (Sigh of relief from Lions fans… He really is good. It isn’t another failed first round WR pick! Hooray!)
2007 – 64-838-5 (Oops, another highly disappointing season)
2008 (through 5 games) – 17-232-1 (A bad start)
I expected Williams to be about what he was in Detroit – An inconsistent WR with overrated talent that would likely put up about 700-1,000 yards per season in Dallas… which of course is not worth a 1, a 3, a 6 (yes, I know they received a 7 in return), and almost as important… $45 million over 5 years. At the time, it was a bad trade. Roy Williams has since gone waaaaaay out of his way to prove that to be not just a bad trade, but rather a God-awful one, as I never expected him to be this bad.
It was a bad trade. Everyone knows it was.
Let’s move on. We still have a WR corps that is pretty good thanks to Miles Austin and have a big opportunity this offseason to improve this team enough to be able to get over that next hump. And the way I see it, if Roy Williams can ever figure out how to consistently perform around that sixty yards a game level, it will only be a bonus for this offense going forward. Am I happy about how much we are paying him? Definitely not, but I don’t see the point in dwelling on it.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
The money isn't coming out of your pocket.
It’s not like it’s a social services program that is government funded. The only problem was its cap ramifications and last year maybe we didn’t keep Canty for cap reasons. Now that there isn’t a cap, it just depends on what Jerry wants to spend. So sure he may be overpaid, and my only issue with him is his playing time. He can sit on the bench and catch zero passes too.
The question is cost versus value
and even without the cap I don’t like paying an under-performing receiver that much. Is it my money? Nope, and I was never under the idea that it was, but that cost still acts as a potential barrier to other players/options if Jerry has limits as to what he wants to spend. Plus, the most successful organizations in the NFL today generally are the most financially responsible so I see no reason why not to demand financial responsibility from Dallas.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Jan 27, 2010 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
Of course the money is not coming directly out of our pockets
but I do not think that is the point. The team has a finite amount of money it can spend on players, cap or no cap, and wasting so many of those dollars on an underachiever like Roy is a waste. Add in that Jerry’s demand that he be on the field kept Miles off the field for the beginning of this season, and it is hard to find anything to like about Roy.
I hope he and Romo work together during the offseason and get on the “same page” (How long is the book that was Roy was given?) and he becomes a contributor to this team, but given his history, both here (BUST!) and in Detroit (One big season, underachiever otherwise), I am doubtful that will work out.
My prediction is that either before or immediately after this season, Roy is cut loose from the Cowboys, and he will drift around the league for a few years, playing for worse and worse teams, and for smaller and smaller contracts, and eventually there will be a glut of Roy Williams’ jerseys at your local Goodwill Store.
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
Your trade vauation is a little off
The Eagles moved up from 21st to 19th in the first for a sixth rounder 195 overall. I don’t see how it would have taken the Cowboys a third to move up for Maclin. As an Eagles fan the thought that we may have had to face Austin and Maclin for the foreseeable future sends a chill down my spine. So all in all I see the trade as a good deal too.
I'm not drunk I'm just drinking.
The previous 3 team traded down, so I had the Cowboys potentially trading up to the 17 spot.
But either way, there were obviously teams wanting to trade into those three spots, 17, 18, and 19. So with that added competition, you are going to have to pay a premium so the team trading down takes your offer and not the other teams. So that’s where my fuzzy math came from.
That's a lot of words
to say “Roy Williams is not a good football player and we got ripped off big-time”. Pats get Randy Moss for a 4th, we get Roy Williams for a 1,3, and 6. FML.
and
we could have traded up for Crabtree for that price.
Yes, but can Crabtree block?
* flowery sarcasm font optional *
by One.Cool.Customer on Jan 27, 2010 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
maybe, but certainly not as well as the greatest blocking receiver in the history of the game
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
I never defended Roy Williams, but I defended the value of the trade at the time.
That is my central thesis. In my household, the name Roy Williams is a curse word, and that stems back from the safety Roy Wiliams days.
This trade is about as good as the Galloway trade IMO
They both sucked and made me wonder what Jerry smoked that day before pulling the trigger
"When people talk about Super Bowl dynasties they mention the 1970's Steelers, 1980's 49ers, 1990's Cowboys and the current New England Patriots, but nobody has dominated the Super Bowl like Anheuser-Busch. In recent years, Budweiser has been the MVP of Super Bowl advertising -- making another company the favorite to win the Ad Meter poll was never an option."
Simon Noble
I agree.
But saying all of that, Jerry has gotten better. He’s batting .500 more than just constant whiffs.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jan 27, 2010 6:16 PM CST up reply actions
Galloway wasn't that bad. He just didn't have a QB.
It was just a bad situation and he was on a bad team. Not that he would have been a hall of famer, but he certainly would have had a better career if he played with Manning his entire career.
He also got injured, which you cannot blame on the GM
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
Williams and Galloway were not worth 1st round picks period
"When people talk about Super Bowl dynasties they mention the 1970's Steelers, 1980's 49ers, 1990's Cowboys and the current New England Patriots, but nobody has dominated the Super Bowl like Anheuser-Busch. In recent years, Budweiser has been the MVP of Super Bowl advertising -- making another company the favorite to win the Ad Meter poll was never an option."
Simon Noble
Couldn't we...
have drafted Nicks or Harvin if we had just kept the pick?
by Beuerleincouldhavebeenbetterthentroy on Jan 27, 2010 8:31 PM CST reply actions
Nicks and Harvin were available, but I know
Jerry had removed Harvin from the draft board because of pot use before the combine. As for Nicks, I couldn’t tell you whether or not Jerry liked him or Kenny Britt or any of the other players at the bottom of the first or the top of the 2nd. But as I did say, we could speculate on who would or would not get picked, but it doesn’t solve anything. I’d love to have Oher and Loadholt, but it didn’t happen, and more than likely, we might have chosen someone who sucked.
Flaw: Detroit Was Done With Roy
They weren’t going to tag him; that would have obligated Detroit to pay him nearly 10 mill for one year. Most likely, Roy was out of there. Now, you may have a point that some other team might have been dumber than Jerry and traded for Roy . . . but this is hardly justifiable evidence to praise the trade. This trade has hurt Dallas tremendously. We need an infusion of talent at oline and we are short one really good WR. It is stupid moves like this that have Dallas knocking on the door looking in at the championship rounds. Screw the TO argument; this is a reach logically, TO was a declining talent and a cancer tumor. I hate Roy Williams and I wish we would just cut him and be done with it.
Easy there, big fells, you are not taking into account Roy's super awesome blocking skills
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
Yes I know
Maybe we could use him in place of Cricket.
I think it is a bigger reach to believe that...
Jerry Jones was going to cut TO and leave the team bereft of proven talent at the WR position. Maybe we get Hushmenzadeh, but that’s just speculation. Also, Dallas hasn’t drafted an offensive lineman in the first round in about 2 decades. I don’t know that it would have changed last year either. Sure you may have wanted Jerry to take a tackle, but I doubt he listens any more to you than he does me.

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