Cowboys @ Giants: When The Stats Don't Make A Lot Of Sense
If you look at some of the game stats, the Giants game appears to have been a lot closer than the 33-20 score would suggest. In fact, if you look at detailed team stats for the game, you could get the impression that the Giants actually won the game. Here are a couple of statistical categories in which the Giants dominated the Cowboys:
| Stat | Giants | Cowboys |
|---|---|---|
| Time of Possession | 37:51 | 22:09 |
| Total 1st downs | 25 | 15 |
| Third down conversion | 6-15 | 3-11 |
| Total Yards | 480 | 427 |
| Sacks | 1 | 0 |
In his press conference on Monday, Coach Garret said: "I’m not a big statistical guy. I don’t really care too much about statistics."
So what does this mean? Does our coach think stats are overrated? The numbers from the Giants game sure do suggest that they are. Or is this just a clever ploy by Garret, meant to confuse the press and opponents alike?
Just because you like what Garrett is saying and you like his demeanor while saying it, do not automatically believe everything this head coach tells you. He’d have you believe he went to the Doofus School of Head Coaching, and he’d tell it to you with a straight face and a sincere smile.
At the very least, Garrett is being purposefully vague and non-committal on many of his answers, if not outright misleading. Ever notice that sly smile right after he finishes answering a question? That ought to tell you something right there. When he said "I'm not a big statistical guy", I wouldn't be the least surprised if what he was thinking was "Well, I'm only 6-2, 200 pounds, so I'm not outright lying when I say I'm not a big statistical guy".
Another give-away is that he talks at length about turnovers right after saying he doesn't really care about statistics. Here' the full quote from the press conference:
I’m not a big statistical guy. I don’t really care too much about statistics. But the overwhelming statistic in the NFL last year, last ten, last twenty, last thirty, last fifty is turnovers.
Ultimately, at the end of the day, it’s about who has more points. But the one statistic that factors into who has more points – more than anything else – are turnovers. You have to take care of the football. So we make that emphasis in meetings, in walk-throughs, on the practice field. We keep putting that in front of them.
But that still leaves the question of why the Cowboys won the game when the Giants won many of the statistical battles. Part of the answer are obviously the big plays the Cowboys had throughout the game, none bigger than McCann's goal-line interception for what was arguably a 14 point swing in the game.
The other part is that of the answer is that we are looking at raw volume stats which don't have a high correlation with winning in the NFL. Just last year, Patriots coach Bill Belichick joined a long line of coaches before him (and after him) who have all said that stats are overrated:
"Stats are for losers," he said. "The final score is for winners."
Yesterday, Belichick spoke with the Boston Herald and clarified what exactly he meant with that quote:
"Well," he said, pondering the issue. "I think they all have meaning. It’s just the priority of the stats."
"Wins is number one," Belichick said. "Points is number two, because that correlates to winning. And then you get to the things that correlate to scoring, which (are) red area, big plays, and third down becomes a part of that because of being able to sustain drives and that type of things. But if you make big plays, then third down becomes less important. You can offset any good numbers with bad numbers. You can offset bad numbers with good numbers, but in the end, it’s about getting points on the board and keeping them off. You always want to improve on the things that you’re doing in all areas of the game. You want to run for more yardage, run for more consistent yardage, pass for more consistent yardage, defend it, all those things - get more negative plays, turnovers, on and on. You’re always striving to improve in every one of those areas."
"I'm not saying (stats are) not significant, they are," Belichick clarified, "but the ones that correlate the highest to winning, you still have to consider them as the most important."
What Belichick is basically trying to say is that only the wrong stats are for losers. So let's look at some of the 'right stats' and see how the Cowboys fared versus the Giants:
| Stat | Giants | Cowboys |
|---|---|---|
| TO differential | -2 | +2 |
| Field Position | 318 | 420 |
| ANPY/A | 6.7 | 14.7 |
| DVOA | -56.1% | 61.2% |
| Passer Rating | 88.3 | 124.1 |
Note on the stats: ANPY/A is explained in detail here, DVOA is Football Outsiders proprietary stat and you can read up on it here.
The Cowboys walked away with a victory on the winning stats, or the stats that count, and while many would argue that passer rating should not be included here, at the end of the day, it is correlated to winning.
Traditional, volume-based football stats are pretty useless outside of fantasy football and are usually not a great help in explaining how a game ended. But a good, efficiency-based stat can go a long way towards explaining what happened on the field, and perhaps even why. Only a loser would think otherwise.
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Replyed their version (scaled down to about 60 minutes of the game last night and here is what i saw the second time around.
1) game was REALLY close – obviously, McCann’s pick was a huge swing and twice the Giants almost closed the 13 point gap 6 points, but a dropped pass by a wide open Giant WR and a penalty kept the Giants from scoring… then they had that bad snap for a fumble that we recovered.
2) We REALLY need a place kicker and let Buehler go back to being a kick off specialist… maybe next year he can polish himself up to be a dependable place kicker but him not being dependable AND the fact that he is not kicking touchbacks like he used to needs to be considered.
3) McCann – even though he had the play of the game and is a rookie and was ‘thrown’ to the lions, got beat a lot see #1 above, i think it was him who got beat for the TD that was called back, and he was beat by the pass that the Giants dropped that probably would have gone all the way if he caught it.
4) all our plays were ‘big’ plays – again, that is GREAT when they happen for you, but we did not have much in the way of sustained drives.. well, i guss you don’t need sustained drives if you keep getting big plays, but it was an observation…
5) and oh yea… Dez IS THE REAL DEAL
that’s my two cents.. i am, like i am sure we all are, curious to see how we respond this week vs. a team that is not as good as the likes of the Giants.
p.s. i posted here because
many of my points above lend themselves to the fact that i am NOT suprised that we were beat in many stat catagories, yet won the game..
kind of like many of our first 8 games where we statistically beat the other team, but not on the score board..
Stick with Buehler because
we are stuck with him. Who is gonna replace him? You don’t dial up Mister Automatic PK at this time of the season. This is his first year to kick FGs. Let’s evaluate him at the end of the season.
Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.
Besides, he is not bad.
Sunday: 2 for 3 FGs. I don’t count a missed extra point because it was blocked.
Season: 11 for 15 (73%) I don’t know what a “great” kicker’s percentage is but it is in the mid 80’s. For Buehler to be at 87% is 13 for 15. So you say he sucks because of 2 misses?
I think coach D is telling him to kick off directionally, and that kills every kicker’s distance.
- "If you know so much about women why are you here at the Gas 'n' Sip on a Saturday night completely alone drinking beers with no women anywhere?"
- "By choice! Man"
by fan since '65 on Nov 18, 2010 1:23 PM CST up reply actions
To many injuries makes using an extra roster spot for a "specialist" unlikely. But Buehler is a concern...
who cares about Beuhler this season?
If he loses us a game just gets us a better draft pick. Let him play it out and see where we are.
11 of 15 I would say is average or a bit below. But it depends on distance and game situation. Problem is 2 of those misses were in the 30s – that’s not good.
"Where's Woody? - We need another Darren Woodson
by BoyfromOz on Nov 18, 2010 3:57 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
It's no so much his statistical performce
It’s the dependability factor. He seems to miss kicks that are critical – whether at a time of the game or impact on score. That implies the issue is in his head.
But when he is considered unreliable – by coaches and team mates alike, it has an deleterious effect on play calling, situational tactics and overall psychology of the team. We saw this vividly demonstrated last year with Folk.
We live life forwards and understand it backwards
I do care about Beuhler - just not THIS season
No harm in giving him 7 more games to demonstrate his dependability factor. If we were making a run for the playoffs I would be very nervous though….
"Where's Woody? - We need another Darren Woodson
13 passes completed, 320+ yards
that will win a lot of games
by AustonianAggie on Nov 18, 2010 12:07 PM CST reply actions
that a +2 in turnover ratio
we didn’t need a lot of ToP or 3rd down conversions because we were hitting big plays all day.
Here are our touchdowns:
TD #1 (Dez): 3 plays, 1:36
TD #2 (McCann): 102 yard INT return
TD #3 (Felix): 3 plays, 1:04
TD #4: 6 plays, 2:29
For the first part of the season we were left in the “stats are for losers” category trying to justify how we outplayed the other team in yardage and ToP but lost due to turnovers, penalties and other mistakes. Glad to be on the other end of that situation for once.
2 red zone turnovers, 1 returned for a td...
and a ridiculous number of big plays. We never get turnovers anymore, but when this team was great, they did it on the back of big plays. OCC, the stats from this game correlate perfectly to what your posts talked about in the offseason
All I'm gonna say is how many times have we come out
on the positive side statistically and lost the game? I’ll take the win over stats because I’m tired of looking good on paper and awful on the field.
Semper Fi Do or Die
Stats really are for losers
And by that I mean, Phillips would always recite our great stats after a loss. But I am sure he would have much rather be pointing to a W in a game where the stats did not fall in our favor. We haven’t seen Garrett lose yet, but I doubt (or at least I hope) he won’t find favorable stats a consolation like his predecessor.
I have a question for the stats guys: how many games this year did we win the statistical battle but lose the game? By memory, i think the answer is many of the earlier losses. If that’s the case, its interesting that we lost the statistical battle against the Giants but won the game.
"Confidence doesn't come out of nowhere. It's a result of something... hours and days and weeks and years of constant work and dedication." --Roger Staubach
yeah, stats don't mean that much in football
Really just gotta use the eyeball test
In Romo we Trust
+1
Your eyes can also reveal some very important variables the stats don’t account for. Lots of things, but perhaps the most important thing not measured by stats is where the Cowboys really showed up and a big reason we won…heart, will, pride, and determination (wow, sounds cheesy, but I am a true believer)
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry
If I remember correctly
Our Boys dominated the stats in the playoff game against the Giants a couple years ago. It didn’t make me feel any better when the Giants were still playing the next week.
Big plays, turnovers?
If I remember right, we didn’t have any of either.
That playoff game was strange. Jason Garrett took an offense that through the first 13 games was historically great and decided to get conservative. We moved he ball well but the result was a worn out oline in the 4th quarter.
Agree in part
But that philosophy would have paid off if the defense had held up its end of the bargain. Remember that long, 10 minute TD drive in the second quarter that left about 44 seconds on the clock. And then the defense let them score a TD in the time remaining. We lost by 4, so that 43 second TD drive by the giants made all the difference.
"Confidence doesn't come out of nowhere. It's a result of something... hours and days and weeks and years of constant work and dedication." --Roger Staubach
that team wasn't great because of its defense though
I agree with you – that end of the first half drive was a momentum killer. But that team was built around its passing offense. If you told me that we would only score 17 points I would say there is a good chance we lose. If you told me we give up 21 points I’d say I like our chances.
I think the road to winning for this team has been simple...
big plays and turnovers. Those are the stats that lead to us (and many teams) winning. Long drawn out drives aren’t our strong suit.
I thnk big plays and turnovers are great if you can create them, but long drives protects our defense.
We had big plays in the Giant’s game because that was what the defense gave us. We actually threw on run packages and ran on pass packages. We had the Giant’s defense confused most of the day.
Coughlin’s quote…
They did a lot differently. They did a lot. Give them credit. They did a good job of isolating, of getting the one on ones they look for, of keeping the quarterback out of the middle of the field so that the errant throws weren’t a part of their plan. They were minus seven in turnovers in the last two games with 42 points off of turnovers. You can see that that was their number one objective, to stay away from turnovers. They loaded up some formations on us and blocked it up and then threw the ball and had some success doing that as well, so they did have a little bit different of a plan and they did a nice job of staying away from the turnovers.
Our game plan was to protect the QB with max protect and quick throws. The players did their jobs with minimal penalties. That’s how we won.
Five times actually
Let me count the ways.
1. The game vs the Redskins had us on long drives, but we failed to score a TD.
2. We were leading the Chicago game, but lost due to a couple quick strikes by the Bears.
3. VS Tennessee, we were committed to the pass, but the defense held its end of the bargain until the fourth quarter. Of the two quarterbacks, Tony Romo actually had the better QB rating, but the most telling stat was the turnovers. They kill you.
4. Against Minnesota, we had a shootout, but that ended with us holding the bag in the stats category.
5. The first game vs the Giants was a fantasy dream for the Cowboys. We dominated the football and despite losing both the game and Tony Romo, Jon Kitna and Dez Bryant get hot for the team.
We tanked in the games vs Jacksonville and Green Bay.
Translation, the Cowboys don’t need stats to win the game unless they are turnovers.
Great post
like the idea of measuring the efficiency stats-not volume stats. Seems to tell the story of the games better.
OCC, if we were to look back, would you say that in our earlier games we won the volume stats battle, but not the volume stats battle, because that seems to be my impression of this season.
"Wade is no longer the coach." Jason Garrett
couple of stats i think are "really important"
this season ,we are 2-7 and on our 2nd HC.
Davie Wilson
"how bout them cowboys"!!!
Or you could focus on the more recent past
We are undefeated with our current HC!
by staubachfan on Nov 18, 2010 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Stats are screwed up in the NFL
We were the better team statiscally against the Redskins, Bears, Vikings, etc and lost all those games……..the Giants were better than us statiscally last week and they lost the game. Lets only focus on the only stat that matters which is W and L’s.
I saw the game last night as well and I still think our defense depends on the other guys missing (dropped passes, the bad snap, the penalty on the TD)……the good think that I have to give credit to Pasqualoni for is that he recognizes that we suck personel wise in our secondary and therefore he cannot ask them to play man coverage……he went to the zonce and got 2 picks out of that. Bend dont break defense with 2 picks per game will get you W’s if the ofense scores 25+ per game.
As mentioned, we dominated statistically most of those early games and still came away with losses.
It goes to efficiency, if you make key mistakes, you won’t win many games. Look at the penalties, I don’t remember any drive killing holdings our false starts in this game. Everybody did their job efficiently and we didn’t shoot ourselves in the foot.
But most importantly, we played with heart and confidence. When the Giants gained momentum, we didn’t crumble, we pushed back…
I Loved Wade as a Person...
But Belicheck’s “stats are for losers” comment reminds me of the infinite statistics Wade would quote after an embarrassing loss, as if they were a consolation.
Greetings from the Humungus, the Ruler of the Wasteland, the Ayatollah of Rock and Roll-A. I laugh at your puny plans.
i agree 100% stats are for losers
thats been the biggest things thats killed this Dallas team, having a ton of fantasy stats expect in the redzone. Wade wasn’t always known for having the a ton of 3 & outs but his defenses did a good job against other teams in the redzone/scoring TDs.
i think Jerry has backed off and allowed Jason a little more control over the personnel bc theres not much other choice but you hope its enough to get there attention. if Barber or anyone decides to buck on the dress code again or if players can’t act like grown men on the field & cost a timeout that could’ve decided the game then they need to be deactived a game or cut if they buck again. the most important things is if anyone gives up on a play when being faced with adversity they need to be deactived or even cut. these are the same players that got one head coach fired & if i was Jerry i would be pissed that i had to put a $150 millon dollar payroll on notice by firing Wade just to get them to do there job. Garrett better realize who cares about the team or who is just in it for the ride bc he’ll be the next goat in Dallas.
the definition of insanity should have a picture of Jerry Jones next to it. he has no idea what he is doing or that its wrong...
"Stats are for losers," he said. "The final score is for winners."
Should be the title of every Wade Phillips press conference. Every time he loses he reads all the stats his team won.
So, what was the Wade Phillips era like?
44-6
by Blue Eyed Devil on Nov 18, 2010 2:41 PM CST reply actions
i think he did that bc he got tires of being reamed every loss
Wade was clearly so stressed out & its been that way since the start of the 2009 season. Jerry puts a lot of pressure on his coaches for some of the right & wrong reasons. its a lot harder to figure out what to cook when someone elses is buying the groceries.
its obvious Garrett wasn’t ready for a head coaching job just after 2 years of being a QB coach & it was also obvious he had to learn on the job as an OC the past 3 1/3 years but now its the biggest daddy of them all being the head coach. with his prior expereicnce preparing as an backup & even learning under Wade he’s going to make some early mistakes but its how he corrects them is whats counts. he’ll be the fastest explayer to become a head coach in the NFL & thats either going to say the possibilitys with him are endless or it was a giant waste of time.
this week should be another W with both teams starting the backup QB & theres only a handful of player on Detroit that would even make the Cowboys roster so i’m looking for our first streak of the season!.
the definition of insanity should have a picture of Jerry Jones next to it. he has no idea what he is doing or that its wrong...
it could be a cool stroy to see an ex Dallas Cowboys player make it as head coach
i just hope they revamp or add some more credible scouts in areas they struggled in the past, especially in this draft. were going to get 1 pick that needs to be an absolute home run starter from day 1 (DL ,OL, LB, S, my pick DE – D.Bowers. Clemson S.C.) (2nd pick RG – Pouncy, Florida or starting RT)…
the definition of insanity should have a picture of Jerry Jones next to it. he has no idea what he is doing or that its wrong...
Is it possible for the Cowboys to overlook the Lions?
Can a 2-7 team have a trap game? Will their minds be on the Saints on T-Day. This maybe a harder game for Garrett and the Boys than the Giants. If this team looks like Wade’s Cowboys, then there’s trouble in big D. Garrett has to win this game or the Giants game doesn’t mean crap.
Lock n Load
thats not what the coach is saying
a good wednesday with a good thursday & friday will give them a shot on sunday. i would say its safe to say 2-7 teams don’t look to far ahead at this point of the season.
the definition of insanity should have a picture of Jerry Jones next to it. he has no idea what he is doing or that its wrong...
just heard Brooking on Sirius..........
he was saying that the Lions are not playing like a 2-7 team. At least he’s not over-looking the Lions. Hopefully, this means the rest of them aren’t either.
Confident Garrett won't let them overlook the Lions
Sure as hell wouldn’t want to be the team that let’s them break their 25 game NFL record road losing streak.
And we haven’t won a game at home yet.
"Where's Woody? - We need another Darren Woodson
by BoyfromOz on Nov 18, 2010 4:07 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
speaking of which
it sure would be nice to watch a good performance by the Boys at home for a change
In Romo we Trust
This is a concern of mine
I feel like every time over the last several years you see a stat like this we blow it. I’m really pulling for Garrett and I hope the players continue to practice and play hard. They can’t win on the road and we can’t win at home. Can we play the game in the parking lot?
by staubachfan on Nov 18, 2010 4:21 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I doubt it..
on the other hand, we’re not that good honestly. I don’t think we can lose with Stafford hurt but its not out of the question. Keep in mind – this is the same offense that did squat the 2 and a half weeks before the last game
Honestly
I think the Cowboys are ready for this game. We been in this position before where we have a short week before the Thanksgiving game which is always big regardless of the opponent. As for the Lions, they simply had bad luck and injuries.

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