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Romodus Operandi

 

The Romosexuals. These are people who are married to the idea that HE is the only one who can deliver us to the Promised Land.  They are also wedded to the notion that no one could or should unseat him as the QB of the team, regardless of what the facts might say. The very idea of someone else playing the role he currently owns is unfathomable. It’s insulting. Or…is it?

 

Lately, as I’ve been watching Jon Kitna playing superfluous games behind the same (seemingly) overmatched offensive line that Romo started the season behind, I’ve wondered why the passing game FEELS so much more productive under his guidance. Not much has changed other than the fact that Tony Romo has been sidelined with a broken collarbone. The same o-linemen are playing o-line. The same receivers are playing receiver. The same running backs are playing running back(okay, Choice has indeed spiced it up). Yet, even the most ardent Tony Romo supporter has to agree that this offense has not suffered a noticeable decline since his injury. In fact, over the last 4 games, allowing for Kitna’s adjustment period, the team is averaging nearly 34 points per game! While there isn’t a ton of statistical data to rely on, the numbers do say there isn’t a marked difference between 38-year old Jon Kitna and Romo from a performance perspective (Yards, completion %, TD-to-INT ratio, etc. all look very similar). The ball does seem to be getting out more of the QB’s hands more quickly and traveling downfield further in the last several games. It does seem to be arriving in the receiver’s hands while he is in stride. The running game seems to be more prevalent now. What is really going on here?

 

There are a number of possibilities worth examining in trying to understand the reasons we haven’t seen any sort of offensive downturn;

 

 

The Shock Factor

 

How can you discount the notion that the elevation of Jason Garrett to Head Coach has had SOME kind of effect on the entire team, offense included? Clearly, the early returns say that the new dress code, the notebooks in meetings and the attention to detail that are quickly becoming JG’s hallmarks seem to be having some of the desired effects. Maybe the entire team has elevated their level of commitment and focus so that people have a new sense of accountability. Maybe the change from Wade to Paul P.’s defense is creating more turnovers and better field position for Kitna than Romo had? Maybe the coaching change is the principal reason behind the lack of a drop-off in offensive output. If so, when Romo does indeed return, whether it’s this year or next, what should we reasonably expect when he supplants Kitna? Going from high to Super-high performance from the offense? Increase in points from 34 to 40 per game?

 

 

The Kitna Excitation

 

7 TD’s and only 2 Interceptions for Jon since JG took the helm. The one thing maybe we all failed to realize is that maybe Kitna is THAT good and could actually be starting for teams like Arizona, the Raiders and the Panthers. After having reviewed the tape on him (okay, it’s not tape, no one uses tape anymore, I use a DVR and am not technologically challenged, just so you know), I can safely say that he throws a much different pass than Romo does. Kitna’s balls are flatter (that sounds wrong, doesn’t it?) and spend much less time in the air. His out’s and in’s and slants get thrown earlier in the route, largely because of what looks like an ability to see the open man sooner, and it looks like the receivers are able to do more with those passes in terms of RAC. His swing passes also have a low arc and he tends to throw around instead of over. Finally, you have to admit the guy is a tough son-of-a-gun because he is running up the gut like Randall Cunningham and with reckless abandon. Maybe Kitna is just the best #2 in the NFL?

 

 

 

The Felix Effect      

 

Felix Jones has officially become the #1 RB in Dallas. For the first time in his career, Felix now has more carries in a season than Barber and while his average per carry is down from previously astronomical highs, he’s still getting near to the requisite 4.0 YPC. In addition, he has become more of a weapon in the flat and defenses must account for him, which opens it up for others. One has to wonder if the game-breaking ability that Felix possesses, an ability that Barber clearly lacks, impacts our opponents’ defensive game planning in such a way for Kitna that it opens up things for him in the passing game that Romo never really got the chance to benefit from?

 

 

The Rallying Cry

 

It’s not unheard of to think that the team, and the offensive line in particular, stepped up their play once their main man went down. When I think about Tony Romo, I think about his ability to extend a play when the o-line breaks down and there are some epic highlights of Romo snatching success out of the hands of failure. Could the linemen have realized that Romo’s stand-in lacks the mobility and the ability to make something out of nothing? If so, would that cause them to stay on their blocks just that half second longer? Maybe they paid more attention to their technique because the great “eraser” was no longer under center. It’s possible they knew they had to rally around Jon Kitna…and did.

 

 

That Whole ‘Leadership’ Thing

 

Some people deride this as mysticism. Others say it is what separates the good from the great. From an outside observer’s perspective, it’s pretty easy to see that there are significant differences between Jon Kitna and Tony Romo in terms of how they conduct themselves in the huddle, on the sideline, in front of the press, etc. I was speaking with a friend of mine the other day who mentioned how often he saw David Buehler giving out quotes about the status of the team when Romo was starting. Now, he said, Kitna appears to be the one (and seemingly only) face and voice used by the media as their barometer for the players. I added that Kitna is the one I see going over and talking with the o-linemen and WR’s after a possession ends, good or bad. It’s a different sideline mentality with Kitna in that he doesn’t automatically walk over and sit down next to Wade Wilson and flip through the digital prints of the defensive alignments and coverage schemes they just faced. His first stop is always with his teammates. It’s a different energy level when he’s matching toothy grins with Miles Austin after a big play. It’s a more convivial sideline with him as the leader of the team. I’ve heard it said that football is a game of emotion and if that is true, at least to the naked eye, doesn’t it appear that Jon Kitna has raised Dallas’ considerably?

 

 

The “What If” Conundrum

 

Sometimes you have to talk about things people don’t want to talk about in order to fully understand things we see happening in front of us. To that end, we have to ask ourselves difficult questions and be courageous enough to discuss them without being dismissive or malicious in our discourse. So I ask you; What if we’ve been lulled to sleep because of such horrendous QB play, between the time that Troy Aikman left the game and Tony Romo arrived on the scene, that we’ve created a heightened perceived value of Romo because of the relativistic context he got placed into with Hutchinson, Testaverde, Bledsoe, Henson, Carter and Leaf (sounds like a Los Angeles law firm)? What if he is significantly better than Chad Hutchinson and Quinthy Carther (see what I did there?) but not good enough to get this team over the hump? What if he’s damned good until it REALLY counts and then finds a way to have a sub-par performance in a key game or moment? What if he replaces Kitna this year and the offensive output gets worse? What if it turns out that he’s…just not as good as many of us want him to be?

 

 

In the end, it’s not heresy (despite what some might say) to question Romo’s true value to the team. As someone commented recently on another thread, you have to have “cold eyes” when it comes to how you view the players on your roster (or, I assume, in the draft and free agency). As the season begins to wind down, we have to take stock of our team and, with the draft approaching, the question will undoubtedly come up; “what about the QB spot?”  I, for one am not deterred in looking hard at Mallett and Locker if we are in a position to take either and they are the BPA on the board at that time. Having quality depth at QB gives a team amazing flexibility in terms of personnel. This is a QB-centric league and, by this time next year, we’ll have a 31-year old QB who isn’t a warhorse like Favre or Manning and has missed time due to injury. In a recent thread, OCC pointed out that QB’s generally begin to see their performance taper off at 32 years of age. He’ll be backed up by a 39-year old if nothing else changes. While an argument could easily be made that the QB position is not one of the biggest current needs on the team, an equally valid argument could be made around why the draft is not about the present, but the future. In the future, this team will in fact need a new QB to lead it. So, he thinks to himself, is Romo at QB the only possible way to get to the top of the mountain or is there some other mode of operation that might yield the coveted sixth bling?

 

GO COWBOYS!!!



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this may be the single biggest reason 5blings...
The Rallying Cry
 
It’s not unheard of to think that the team, and the offensive line in particular, stepped up their play once their main man went down. When I think about Tony Romo, I think about his ability to extend a play when the o-line breaks down and there are some epic highlights of Romo snatching success out of the hands of failure. Could the linemen have realized that Romo’s stand-in lacks the mobility and the ability to make something out of nothing? If so, would that cause them to stay on their blocks just that half second longer? Maybe they paid more attention to their technique because the great "eraser" was no longer under center. It’s possible they knew they had to rally around Jon Kitna…and did.

"Of all the things I have lost , I miss my mind the most-Mark Twain

"There is a fine line between Genius and Insanity"-Oscar Levant

I’m not taking anything for granted until I’m sure they’re dead. Dallas is like Freddy Krueger
by Tracer Bullet on Nov 14, 2010 5:02 PM EST

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 5, 2010 8:30 PM CST reply actions  

I think ESPN's Sports Guy calls it the Ewing Effect

About how a team sometimes gets better when their best player goes out, as everyone else steps up their game.

by Baked Potato Soup on Dec 5, 2010 9:28 PM CST up reply actions  

But...

I would rather see the Jordan effect, where a guy demands that everyone on his team play to the best of their ability and they respond out of fear of letting him down/his wrath.

by Baked Potato Soup on Dec 6, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions  

And...

while both of those are good.. I think it is a bit harder to compare basketball and football. Alot more moving pieces.

But I get what you’re saying.

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by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 10:54 AM CST up reply actions  

it is strange how both the Vikings and Cowboys........

(1) fire their coaches and now are winning (2) lose their QB’s and the backup comes in and does pretty good. There’s a lot of similarity between the two teams.

by texstar on Dec 6, 2010 10:58 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm interested to see...

Minnesota play a team worth a damn though. Dallas has beaten Indy and NY and went toe to toe with the Saints.

Minnesota has beaten Buffalo and Washington(who has become pretttty bad.)

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

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by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 11:01 AM CST up reply actions  

True...

and it isn’t even like TCU purple, it’s like Barney purple.

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by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 11:02 AM CST up reply actions  

not really

Favre has been playing awful all season and he’s been a big reason why the Vikings were losing while Romo started off having the best season of his career and was the reason we were in each game we played.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 6, 2010 12:37 PM CST up reply actions  

I was going to write my own response but then I saw yours.

Agreed. Favre has been one of the 10 worst qbs in the league this season. Honestly, hes been easily the worst on our schedule. I don’t know why they refuse to bench him, but I think Jackson will be an improvement.

Very different from Romo, who played relatively well, but got hurt

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 1:15 PM CST up reply actions  

This 100%

"Wade is no longer the coach." Jason Garrett

by k2spitfire88 on Dec 8, 2010 3:12 PM CST up reply actions  

The Jordan Effect is also the Aikman effect

Some guys set a tone where other players are afraid to give anything but their physical (and mental) best.

You can’t underestimate the impact that Irvin had on the way Dallas practiced. I actually saw the same effort from Miles when I saw him in Oxnard, but he doesn’t have the widespread impact that an Irvin had.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:59 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes, without a doubt

Did you see how he was abusing Blair White for running a crappy route that turned into a pick 6?

You wonder what Manning could do with a competent running game and tough defense on his side. If he QB’d for the Jets, Id fear for the Dolphins’ record season.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 12:13 PM CST up reply actions  

That pick was Manning's fault

He just needed somebody to bitch at…he admitted as much in his presser.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 6, 2010 12:41 PM CST up reply actions  

That's what a great QB does, Terry

But walking over to the sideline, you could tell that White was suppsed to cut hard on that In-route and White rounded it off. When Manning says, “no…bullshort!” to the kid, I know what it means.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 1:11 PM CST up reply actions  

there's a reason that Manning targeted,,,,,,

Reggie Wayne 20 times yesterday. He’s the only one that Manning trusts.

by texstar on Dec 6, 2010 1:15 PM CST up reply actions  

If things didn't go south with Garcon this year it would be different.

For whatever reason those two cannot connect. Its like Romo and RW.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 3:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, sophomore slump for Pierre

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 6:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Manning has been making a lot of decisions lately

He’s gotta play better, thats the bottom line. Brady doesn’t have the most experienced WR corp and he’s playing really well.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 6, 2010 2:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep...

although it helps Brady that they have the 13 most rushing yards/GM in the NFL.

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by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 2:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Blair White versus Deion Branch

I think there’s a difference there.

If not, how about Logan Mankins vs. Jeff Linkenbach?

How many starting skill players are injured for the Pats? Take Addai and Clark were nowhere to be found last night.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 4:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Last time I checked Reggie Wayne was still a pro bowl caliner WR

and nobody on the Pats WR really is half as good.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 9, 2010 3:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Isn't YOUR argument that Romo needs more time to throw in these big games?

Isn’t YOUR argument that the epic failures in the playoffs aren’t his fault, even though he has the best supporting cast of skill players?

Now YOUR argument is that Manning should be playing better than Brady because he has better skill players, but it has nothing to do with the O-line?

I think I just need time to get used to the idea that you have the uncanny ability to shake off your previous positions, like a great cornerback shakes off a TD thrown against him, in favor of any new ones that might cast Romo in a better light.

I’ll get there. It’s a work in progress. I can do this.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 9, 2010 5:19 PM CST up reply actions  

the more I read Terry's Comments

The More I am convinced that Terry is in fact Female…cause only a woman could make the leaps of logic that Terry does….

Knowledge and Skill overcome Superstition and Luck- Dawn Patrol Motto-Spartan College of Aeronautics and Technology

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 9, 2010 6:17 PM CST up reply actions  

No he's not....

he’s just different.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 9, 2010 10:16 PM CST up reply actions  

I like Terry!

His blind fanaticism reminds me of every Cowboys fan on this blog.

Hell I’ve dropped about 200 plus dollars on Cowboys merchandise for my wife, baby and I for Christmas and we’ve got 4 wins!

All I want for Christmas is a navy blue 88 jersey (;

by G_SWAG on Dec 10, 2010 1:32 AM CST up reply actions  

I never said I didn't like him...

In fact his Blind Homerism and strange jumps in logic make me smile…But just Like a woman I love him(figuativly speaking) but I don’t try to understand him…

Knowledge and Skill overcome Superstition and Luck- Dawn Patrol Motto-Spartan College of Aeronautics and Technology

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 10, 2010 6:02 AM CST up reply actions  

I hope Mrs Claus is very good to you then...

Because you’ve been a good little die-hard this year.

Best be safe and not use the line on her till after the 25th though. ;)

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 10, 2010 6:53 AM CST up reply actions  

That wasn't a mean statement I said.

Just true. His love for Romo is a little over the top.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

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by Iron Fist on Dec 10, 2010 9:36 AM CST up reply actions  

But this blog would be less than what it is without him

Every Green Lantern (me) needs a Sinestro (him).

:-)

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 1:36 PM CST up reply actions  

I think of you two more like...

Marty McFly and Biff….“Mccccccflllllllly”

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 10, 2010 1:45 PM CST up reply actions  

That pick was Manning's fault

He just needed somebody to bitch at…he admitted as much in his presser.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 6, 2010 12:41 PM CST up reply actions  

I am enjoying Kitna's arm strength

For a 38 year old, he still has his heater.

by I_miss_Switzer on Dec 5, 2010 8:40 PM CST reply actions  

Pretty impressive, isn't it?

Gives hope to guys like me!

:-)

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 10:02 AM CST up reply actions  

I've said before that Romo's arm strength is average

Kitna, at one point, had a rifle. Now, his strength has diminished with age. Still, you can see that his ball speed is greater than Romo’s.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:32 AM CST up reply actions  

He didn't get measured at the Combine, so I can't look up his velocity...

…but when he was a pro bowler and won the QB challenge one year, you could see his passes lacked the zip of his contemporaries.

I’ve always said that hard out’s are not something Romo should throw because DB’scan safely jump those routes.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 12:01 PM CST up reply actions  

completely disagree

Romo throws the hard out’s as well as any qb

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 6, 2010 12:43 PM CST up reply actions  

He isn't Jesus Christ

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 1:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Here is my Kreskin like prediction: You will never get an answer to that question

Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/

by Seanrude on Dec 6, 2010 2:25 PM CST up reply actions  

So his weakness is his strength? That is your answer?

Like I said, you won’t answer that question.

Let me ask you this: What parts of his game could improve? Be specific, no horseshit answers like “he needs to raise his general level of play.” Where can Romo improve? Accuracy? Arm Strength? Footwork? What would you like to see him wor on this offseason? Again, be specific.

Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/

by Seanrude on Dec 6, 2010 3:01 PM CST up reply actions  

wow

a quart before breakfast? How’s the liver doing?

"Of all the things I have lost , I miss my mind the most-Mark Twain

"There is a fine line between Genius and Insanity"-Oscar Levant

I’m not taking anything for granted until I’m sure they’re dead. Dallas is like Freddy Krueger
by Tracer Bullet on Nov 14, 2010 5:02 PM EST

That's a fair point …to which I have no rebuttal.
by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 9:55 AM PST

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 8, 2010 5:25 AM CST up reply actions  

And here is my Kreskin-like prediction: You will never get non-horseshit answers to those questions

    ;

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 3:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Romo should be working on those areas every year

like any other great qb…that what the great ones do

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 9, 2010 8:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Can I answer this one, too? I think Romo can make

all the throws. Not long ago, I posted a link to some interesting stats that prove he’s got a very quick release, one of the fastest in the league. He’s got a strong enough arm, even if it isn’t as strong as someone like Rivers. He’s elusive. BUT, he’s got the same problem a lot of the top ones have; he’s sometimes too confident that he can make a throw. He works too hard to make something happen, which is usually a good thing, but not always. Sometimes, he needs to pull it down and take the sack. But I can say the exact same thing about Manning last weekend or Brees at times this season. What irks me is that, for whatever reason, Romo takes more heat for it. When Rodgers or Rivers throw picks, it’s someone else’s fault. When it’s Romo, it’s his fault. The weird part is that Rodgers and Rivers haven’t proven any more than Romo has, if we’re talking deep playoff runs and SBs. Apparently, you get a pass if you have a pedigree.

I also don’t question his ability to lead and think the things said in that regard are mostly ridiculous. BUT I think he should actually be more aggressive defending himself and tell people where to go when they talk that way. I suppose that’s one element of leadership I’d like to see him learn; don’t take people’s crap and don’t let them spout crap about your team. In that sense, he could be more vocal. Instead of inviting Dungy to practice when Dungy talked trash about him, he should have told Dungy where to go.

by Fernie67 on Dec 9, 2010 9:44 AM CST up reply actions  

Hmmmm
BUT I think he should actually be more aggressive defending himself and tell people where to go when they talk that way.

Like Derek Anderson?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 9, 2010 10:36 AM CST up reply actions  

Youtube it...

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 9, 2010 11:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Try this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jErsW7rgHBs

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 11, 2010 12:07 AM CST up reply actions  

his biggest weakness is also his biggest strength

trying to make something out of nothing

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 6, 2010 2:37 PM CST up reply actions  

I think at this point they throw about the same velocity wise...

Romo’s arm is average starting caliber. He clearly doesn’t have the arm of the Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Vick or maybe one or two others that I’m forgetting. Those guys can get an extra 5-10 yards on it.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 1:19 PM CST up reply actions  

It's strong enough to make any throw on the route tree

and really thats all you need…just ask Joe Montana

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 6, 2010 2:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I can't see it

Romo looks like he throws every bit as hard as Kitna if not harder.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 6, 2010 12:42 PM CST up reply actions  

You have to ask?

Terry’s not known for his witty rebuttals, at least when it comes to Romo. :-)

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 1:12 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm a Romo guy...

and I think he has enough arm strength that it doesn’t effect his game buttttt

I think Kitna might have a bit more. Romo definitly doesn’t throw harder.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 2:00 PM CST up reply actions  

I can remember Raf saying at camp

that Romo had the best arm of all the qbs at camp….so at least there is someone else who disagrees

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 6, 2010 2:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Who?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Rafael

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 4:10 PM CST up reply actions  

WHO????

:-)

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 6:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Best timing sense Aikman

Are you watching the same game as the rest of us 5? Romo throws that ball as hard as anybody but at the same time throws the prettiest timing pass out there. Case in point, this year, the Boys against the Texans. That pass Tony threw to Dez down the left sideline was so perfect that it fell right into his hands and Dez just had to run. It’s not always about arm strength; placement is just as important. Not too many QB’s can do that. Not knocking Kitna though, that TD pass to Witten and 2 point conversion tp Roy were beautifully thrown.

by mtibus on Dec 8, 2010 2:59 PM CST up reply actions  

No

I must be watching someone else.

Romo doesn’t throw a hard fastball. Again, your baseline is important because you need context, so I am not using Elway or Bert Jones here. I think Rivers is a good contemporary to compare Tony to. Rivers can throw a bullet.

On the other hand, I’ve seen him get hot and witnessed his ability to fit balls into tight windows.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 7:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, Romo vs Rivers on the bullet...

Rivers definitely has the edge.

There’s a trade I’d consider, if not make hands down.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 7:49 PM CST up reply actions  

the thing that impresses me with Romo is not arm strength or the ability to throw a fastball,

but rather the quickness of his release. Honestly, about the only QB that I can think of off the top of my head with a quicker release would be Dan Marino (back in the day).

vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

by BishopWest on Dec 8, 2010 10:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Hmmmm

Kurt Warner probably could throw his name in that hat too.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 8, 2010 10:41 PM CST up reply actions  

+1

vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

by BishopWest on Dec 8, 2010 10:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Romo's is lightning fast

Cutler’s too.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 10:46 PM CST up reply actions  

+1 BishopWest

Quick release is much more important than having a very strong arm. An NFL qb only needs his arm to be strong enough to make every throw on the route tree and Romo can certainly do that very well.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 9, 2010 8:46 AM CST up reply actions  

I have two things to say about this post.

1st: I agree that if dallas is in position to draft a QB that is going to be great for years to come it only helps the team to have that player if not just for trade bait but for the near future. Romo probably only has 2-3 years before it will be time to move on; injury could make this sooner.

2nd: The team went into the tank and the “quit” factor was precipitous when romo went down, the team started to give-up because they did not think they could win with Kitna. The loss of romo was the big event that led to WP getting fired; it made it clear that WP could not rally this team to find a reason to go on; hence the defense looking really bad then completely quitting in the last two games (jacksonville and GB).

I will be interested in seeing how the team responds to Romo coming back, will they look same-old as the 1st half of the season; or will they now have better production? I think the better team play is what was missing in the 1st half of the season. I remember in that part of the season there would be a big play, then it was snuffed out by a flag; if romo comes in and they start to struggle again; then that should be considered an indictment of romo’s leadership. We will see in a couple of weeks.

Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!

by cowboy78 on Dec 5, 2010 8:49 PM CST reply actions  

Romo has 2-3 years?

Here we are talking about our 38 year old back-up QB that is still slinging the ball well and has heat and accuracy to his passes, and you are prematurely ending Romo’s career in 2-3 years when he turns 33 (with less wear and tear than Kitna)?!

Romo has plenty of years ahead of him, I would even say he is in his prime. He is still learning and improving. While I don’t think Kitna is the (only) reason we are now winning games, JG as HC and his new balanced approach as OC are the biggest difference.

I do hope Tony is taking notes though because the one place where I see A LOT of difference is the pace of the offense. I remember Tony using every second in the playclock to read the field before the snap and there wasn’t this upbeat tempo that Kitna is providing.

"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Dec 6, 2010 10:12 AM CST up reply actions  

3 more years as a starter. Romo will also be able to play at 38, as a back up.

- "If you know so much about women why are you here at the Gas 'n' Sip on a Saturday night completely alone drinking beers with no women anywhere?"
- "By choice! Man"

by fan since '65 on Dec 8, 2010 3:18 PM CST up reply actions  

I doubt that

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 7:31 PM CST up reply actions  

If Kitna can make it to 38 as an effective QB so can Romo.

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 8, 2010 7:58 PM CST up reply actions  

That makes no sense

…and coming from you, I am surprised.

Because the simple extrapolation of that flawed logic is that since Kitna did it, EVERY QB can. But you know the biggest reason we’re having this conversation about Kitna is the simple fact that being productive at his advanced age (for a QB anyways) is a notable anomaly. The odds are stacked against somebody doing what Jon Kitna is doing.

In fact, Kitna’s toughness is probably one of the things about him that bears even more discussion.

No, I don’t buy the idea that just since one guy did it, anyone can. The fact is that very, very few can, and even fewer do.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 10:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Nah. I am simple expressing that the possibility exists.

I wasn’t saying he is guaranteed to by any means.

Regardless, you are approaching this question from the wrong perspective. It is true that most QBs aren’t still playing at 38. However, many don’t make it to 38 because they never were good enough to warrant that type of burn. Tony clearly doesn’t belong in that group though. As such, I would say his chances at playing to 38 are much, much better than the average QB (especially since the ‘average QB’ includes David Carr, Quincy Carter, etc.).

Honestly, the only way I can see him not playing to 38 is some sort of ridiculously chronic injury or an extremely devastating injury. He is a very competitive guy and while I will agree that seven years is a long time, look at guys like Peyton, Brady, Brees, Eli, Big Ben, Ryan, and Rivers. Those guys, who are either better than or slightly worse than Tony, are guys we regularly associate with long-term stability at the QB position and Tony’s career arc is even more stunted than theirs as far as when it really started. Lastly, if you are indeed betting on injuries to take him out, consider that the rules are changing more and more to protect QBs and medicine has never been better as far as recovering from things like ACLs.

In sum, my opinion is that betting against Romo to get to 38 would be a very poor bet because you are basing that bet off the data for ALL QBs rather than the data for QBs whose play is clearly top-ten like Romo’s is.

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 9, 2010 2:01 AM CST up reply actions  

*torn ACLs

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 9, 2010 2:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Romo has a lot of tread on his tires

from not starting until he was 25 so this BS that his game will start to decline into his 30s is ridiculous, thats purely Romo hating speculation that has no basis at all.

If a guy like Warner can play until he’s almost 40 at a high level, there certainly is no reason Romo can’t do the same.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 9, 2010 8:54 AM CST up reply actions  

And yet, many QB's as good or better than Romo don't play to that age

So is it really Romo hating or is it you saying that so you can divert attention from reality?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 9, 2010 10:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Those same qbs aren't elite level qbs like Romo either

Guarantee that Brees, Manning, Brady, Rodgers and Rivers all play well into their upper 30s unless they suffer a lot of concussions or other career ending injuries.

Thats reality

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 9, 2010 3:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Reality that hasn't happened yet, nor does it have any historical foundation of support

Yeah, reality.

But I think this discussion is about the world outside of your head. Does that change anything?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 9, 2010 5:13 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think Brady Brees, Ben or Eli will be able to play at 38

…and Peyton is doubtful unless they become a much more balanced offense with a stud RB behind him.

The game is just too violent and the hits rattle bones differently at 33 than they do at 27.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 9, 2010 10:38 AM CST up reply actions  

disagree

Those guys will play as long as they want to play, especially Manning and Brady, those guys rarely get touched.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 9, 2010 3:58 PM CST up reply actions  

that's an awfully big statement that ......

“those guys will play as long as they want to play” don’t you think? I’ll give you a good example-Aikman. He didn’t retire because he wanted to-he was forced to by Jerry. Yeah, I know all the concussions and everything but he was really close to signing in San Diego and thought seriously about Philly. If Jerry didn’t have salary cap issues, he would have let Aikman continue to play.

by texstar on Dec 9, 2010 4:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Actually the Reason that Aikman retired was because of Concussions

By the time he retired he had 11(known) of them….

Knowledge and Skill overcome Superstition and Luck- Dawn Patrol Motto-Spartan College of Aeronautics and Technology

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 9, 2010 4:45 PM CST up reply actions  

oh I know that but..........

Terry is saying that these other guys will be able to play for as long as they want to. You are correct that he retired because of concussions, but Jerry waived him first. Aikman wanted to still play and thought seriously about it. All that being said, Aikman didn’t play as long as he wanted to, he was forced out by Jerry. Does that make sense?

by texstar on Dec 9, 2010 4:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah

Sadly, Aikman, like Favre and others, couldn’t see when they were done.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 9, 2010 5:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Those guys don't have chronic injuries

and the rules are changing to protect QBs. Hits definitely hurt, but I would be shocked if half of those guys mentioned don’t make it to an age pretty close to 38. For them not to get there I would have to guess they either would have to have catastrophic injury problems or they just lack the desire to play that long. And while I don’t know Tony I definitely sense that desire to play for as long as someone will have him. So really, to bet against Tony in my opinion is essentially betting on some real injury problems. And while that is certainly possible, it’s just not a bet I would make.

However, if you think it is a bet you would make (Tony won’t make it to 38) I would be interested on taking you up on it. The payoff might not be for a while but I will put my money where my mouth is.

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 10, 2010 1:56 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm in

six pack of your favorite brew?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 1:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Done.

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 10, 2010 3:59 PM CST up reply actions  

That's all nice what are the Rules...

I am thinking if Romo is Playing, regardless of team and is playing at a reasonably high level then Creasy wins… If these conditions are not met then 5Blings win….. sound Fair you two?

Knowledge and Skill overcome Superstition and Luck- Dawn Patrol Motto-Spartan College of Aeronautics and Technology

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 10, 2010 4:53 PM CST up reply actions  

As long as Romo is playing NFL football at age 38

than yes, I win. If not, I owe Blings a six pack.

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 10, 2010 8:10 PM CST up reply actions  

so if Romo is a back up

but what are you guys going to consider playing? being a starter? or would being a backup behind a young rookie like Bradford be considered playing?

Knowledge and Skill overcome Superstition and Luck- Dawn Patrol Motto-Spartan College of Aeronautics and Technology

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 11, 2010 6:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Keep it fair both ways, if he plays 1 reg season down, he's played

Satisfies both sides of the playing definition argument.

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 11, 2010 8:32 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm fine with that

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 11, 2010 12:11 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd never have thought otherwise, Blings

   ;

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 11, 2010 2:56 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree with the 1st thing totally.

The team was showing a lack of drive before Tony went down as shown by their record so I don’t think the quit factor was because off Kitna.

by oldboysfan on Dec 6, 2010 6:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Exactly!

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Only natural and most common state of mind of any team in that situation, past, present or future

Once done, I maintain that disarrayed group of individuals began to regain something that was lost far before this season began.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 7:02 AM CST up reply actions  

The offense didn't start scoring at this rate when Kitna went under center.

Kitna isn’t the one that made this offense look better. He’s not the key to the change.

Jason Garrett is the key.

Putting the team in pads during the week has made the offensive line better. They’ve acknowledged that being in pads during practice has made this offensive line much more cohesive, physical and confident and that is what has helped spark this change. Let’s not forget how bad this team looked with Kitna in the game while Wade Phillips was the coach.

I’d argue that the only reason the Cowboys were competitive under Phillips this season was because of Tony Romo. Look at the games the Cowboys were losing with Romo still playing: the team was losing but was still competitive. He goes down and suddenly the entire team falls apart.

In fact, I would argue that it was Romo that was holding this team together.

I’m not discounting what Kitna has done, and I love watching him play. But just because Kitna shouts and jumps around on the sideline does not mean that he’s actually leading this team any better that Romo ever did. He’s played well the past few games and it’s great to see the Cowboys offense can still be aggressive with their backup quarterback. But Kitna is not the player that “sparked” this offense on his own. Garrett has changed the mindset, culture and the attitude of this team since taking over as coach and Kitna is feeding off that building on it.

I only wish Romo was playing right now with Garrett as head coach. But I also know that if Romo had never gotten hurt then Phillips would never had been fired. The Cowboys would never have been blown out that bad with Romo playing and I’d wager they would even win that game against the Giants.

I love watching Kitna. I love watching Romo. To say that Kitna’s performance right now discredits anything Romo has down is simply frustrating as hell.

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by Brandon Worley on Dec 5, 2010 9:18 PM CST reply actions   2 recs

and the sad part about is OUR DEFENSE sucks..

backup QB is playing lights out and we barely win…

by LiLGiT on Dec 5, 2010 10:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Exactly.

How quickly we forget that Kitna wasn’t lighting the world on fire when Wade was the coach. They laid down under him against Jacksonville and Green Bay (is that leadership?). Say what you want about Tony (and many do) but that has arguably only happened once under Tony for his entire reign (44-6 against Philly).

Garrett is the difference. Not Kitna.

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 5, 2010 10:34 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Rio

as I said before, alot of the turnovers in the Jags. game were either dropped passes or bouncing off of receivers into interceptions. He actually played pretty well in that game. Everybody stunk it up in the Packers game.

by texstar on Dec 6, 2010 12:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Then you have to cut Romo some slack for the same on most of his picks.

Because on at least three of those picks the ball was either high or wide where the receivers had to reach back for the ball in the air. Not that Miles, for one, has played perfect or hasn’t bobbled his fair share balls this year but the picks against the Jags were caused as much by stray throws as buttery fingers.

by MadMick on Dec 6, 2010 12:46 PM CST up reply actions  

He was trying to play the whole playbook after being called in with almost no first-team practice snaps

It’s ike saying Romo should have been great out of the gate when he took over for Bledsoe.

Reps in practice with the first string are everything for a backup QB.

Don’t assume that everything you disagree with has some sort of sinister motive behind it.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 1:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Well here is romos stats when coming in with no first team snaps in 06

 Week 8 Oct 29 @ CAR W 35-14 86.6(qb rating)24 for36 1td 1 int
 Week 9 Nov 5 @ WAS L 19-22 109.0 (qb rating) 24for36 284 yards 2 tds and 0 ints

Well looks like once again in comparison much better

by rioplayer7 on Dec 6, 2010 10:27 PM CST up reply actions  

But is it relevant?

So much about the teams they played, the situations they were in and the reasons the backups were playing (one came in because the starter was ineffective, the other due to an injury).

I think that, speaking in generalities, you would agree that most backup QB’s don’t have a Tom Brady kind of story attached to their names, right?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:13 PM CST up reply actions  

You and your "given's", how's a guy supposed to debate without quibbling?

   ;

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 7:06 AM CST up reply actions  

Not sure

What weapons do you think Kitna has that Romo didn’t?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 1:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Austin, Roy, Dez, Felix

I would love to be throwing to those guys

by rioplayer7 on Dec 7, 2010 4:24 PM CST up reply actions  

WHAT?!

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 6:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Understand you now and thanks

Given your reply plus “I am talking about in 06” comment below clarifying your context, my incredulity’s eased. Thank you. I understand what your intent was now.

Couldn’t help myself when I read the comment. No offense.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 8:03 PM CST up reply actions  

TO, Glenn

Was a formidable combo and Barber was a beast. Not to mention Witten and PC contributed.

Our QBs that year threw for over 4000 yards. Barber at 16 TDs and was unstoppable at getting into the endzone. That Offense came alive with Romo undercenter

by thebigham on Dec 8, 2010 6:30 AM CST up reply actions  

We are at 3308 right now

I would much rather have 2 1st round receivers and a number one in Austin plus felix and still Witten

by rioplayer7 on Dec 8, 2010 12:35 PM CST up reply actions  

But relatively speaking, Dallas didn't lack for a great supporting cast then or now

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 7:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Agree with everything.

O Line just started playing well when Garrett took over, not because of Kitna. Good point about Kitna not looking this good when Wade was HC.

by selke99 on Dec 6, 2010 12:48 AM CST up reply actions  

offense didn’t start scoring at this rate when Kitna went under center.

the difference in offensive scoring is pretty small.

take out the McCann pick six, McCann punt return, the Bush fumble on the 10, the 2 pick-sixes against Indy.

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Dec 6, 2010 8:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Yep.

I mean the offense produced 24 points yesterday even. Not that it bad, it just wasn’t that different.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 9:26 AM CST up reply actions  

the offense just looks better though

the only area we’ve gotten worse is snapping the damn ball. The receivers and TEs aren’t making nearly as many mistakes.

This offense seems to be maximizing its points potential if that makes sense. On drives where the OL isn’t a total disaster, we’re scoring. Even if there are OL mistakes, Kitna and Garrett are doing a really good job getting us into workable down/distance situations.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 3:16 PM CST up reply actions  

well said Brandon

It’s obvious to me that if Romo would be playing under Garrett the past 4 games we would have probably beaten the Saints, obviously the Colts and the other games would have been big time blowouts by us.

Romo is one of the very best qbs heading into the prime of his career (no disrespect to OCC, but his numbers lie about 30+ yr old qbs) and once he gets back, this offense will really look good. The 34 points per game isn’t all Kitna and the offense, guys like McCann, Scandrick and Lee have contributed to that point total as well.

There were many plays over the past several game that Romo makes which Kitna didn’t, either missed passes or reads, that would produced more points. The one obvious play from the Colts game was the overthrow to Austin in the endzone, Romo makes the throw in his sleep.

I know you like hatin’ on #9 bling, but give it a rest, Romo will be the Cowboys qb for a lot of years to come, so get used to it.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 6, 2010 9:06 AM CST up reply actions  

Terry,

Romo is the better QB.

The mistake you’re making is attributing too much of wins and losses to the QB: Romo or Kitna.

I think Romo would have played better than Kitna, but not wildly better.

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Dec 6, 2010 9:10 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree.

Which isn’t a shot a Romo, but more of a compliment to Kitna. He has really been playing great football.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 9:27 AM CST up reply actions  

+1 Fan..........

I think what it says is that our whole offense is playing better. It’s a combination of things. One thing that I think has helped our line a lot is that they are practicing in pads on Wed. Therefore, as Aikman said yesterday, they are getting into a rhythm for the game. Remember, Kosier and Columbo missed a lot of training camp. Plus, Wade didn’t have them wearing pads in training camp-ugh! Since a lot of offense it built on timing, that one little added thing-practicing with pads-makes a huge difference imo.

One thing that Romo can learn from Kitna-how to be a better leader as the QB. You see Kitna’s competitiveness and I like it on the sidelines. As some people have said, Romo needs to get out of the Golfer personality and more the football personality-this is not a shot at Romo btw. Just an observation. Golf is individual play-Football is team play.

by texstar on Dec 6, 2010 9:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Your last comment makes no sense

Golf is just as competitive of a sport as football, you don’t think Tiger Woods is an intense competitor?? Got news for you, he’s just as competitive as any qb in the NFL.

Romo is extremely competitive and a very good leader, he simply has a different style than Kitna, there is no “right” way to be a leader. The best leaders lead by example by their play on the field and BOTH Romo and Kitna have been doing that this season.

The real leadership difference on the team however has come from the HC since Garrett took over.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 6, 2010 9:52 AM CST up reply actions  

calm down............

Romo’s not perfect. Even he said, that there are things to learn on the sidelines watching Kitna. I don’t even know why I bother responding to you, but here goes: I never said that golf is not competitive but it is an individual sport. Have you ever seen 11 guys play on the same team together-U.S. tournaments-NOT-International tournaments-ANSWER IS NO! Whether you want to admit it or not-with you the answer is not-football is a team sport. Very different than golf. By no means was I blaming Romo for any of this mess, but he IS by no means perfect.

If you can’t get it into your head that there’s always room for improvement, then you have a real problem buddy. That goes for everyone in this world-You, me etc. If you are not always trying to work on something and get better, you will not get better. Whether you want to admit it or not, Romo can learn a few things from Kitna and one of those things is being a better leader and not sitting over by himself whenever things are not going well. Eatman and other biased reports for DC.com have even said that Romo tends to be off by himself and not part of the team.

by texstar on Dec 6, 2010 10:04 AM CST up reply actions  

I never said Romo was perfect

or that you were blaming him in any way. What I said was that being very competitive is not limited to team sports, it doesn’t matter what sport somebody plays, competitiveness is competitiveness irregardless.

And also never said Romo can’t improve as any player can improve, but being competitive certainly isn’t a quality Romo lacks at all.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 6, 2010 12:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Its been mentioned but

Romo needs to pick up the Pace. Like Manning was doing last night and what kitna has been doing. Brees does etc.

Romo too often gets to the line and hikes the ball at the last second, which 1) Lets the defenders explode off the line 2) Lets the defenders catch that extra second of breath 3) lets the defenders recollect themselves

I hope Romo is atleast learning that from Kitna

by thebigham on Dec 6, 2010 11:06 AM CST up reply actions  

thank you....well said.........

plus, when he doesn’t pick up the pace, our Oline commits more false starts.

by texstar on Dec 6, 2010 11:13 AM CST up reply actions  

I was looking at that before Romo went down...

And he was doing a pretty good job of getting the snap off earlier. Now I haven’t seen Kitna in action enough to compare but I do know that Romo was getting the snap off with about 6-8 seconds left on the play clock on most plays.

"Of all the things I have lost , I miss my mind the most-Mark Twain

"There is a fine line between Genius and Insanity"-Oscar Levant

I’m not taking anything for granted until I’m sure they’re dead. Dallas is like Freddy Krueger
by Tracer Bullet on Nov 14, 2010 5:02 PM EST

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 6, 2010 11:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Does Romo need more time to make his pre-snap reads?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:33 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't know

Its an interesting topic maybe someone should look into it farther.

Hiking the ball sooner cuts down on false starts, I like that angle too

by thebigham on Dec 6, 2010 11:35 AM CST up reply actions  

You tell me.

Where in the Play Clock does Kitna get the Snap off? is it before or after that 6-8 sec window that Romo was at before he went down?

"Of all the things I have lost , I miss my mind the most-Mark Twain

"There is a fine line between Genius and Insanity"-Oscar Levant

I’m not taking anything for granted until I’m sure they’re dead. Dallas is like Freddy Krueger
by Tracer Bullet on Nov 14, 2010 5:02 PM EST

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 6, 2010 11:36 AM CST up reply actions  

It seems like he walks up and gets the ball hiked

That’s not scientific, but my eyes say he doesn’t spend a lot of time letting the D get set.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:56 AM CST up reply actions  

I've been seeing Kitna get to the line a little earlier...

and take a little longer to snap the ball. I had trouble paying attention to this yesterday because I was watching online, but in the Saints game I felt like he did a good job getting to the line with 8-10 seconds, making his reads and snapping it with around 3. Thats similar to what Romo does…I think he gets to the line just a second or two later generally? I don’t know. It also seems to vary game to game.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 1:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Not sure where you saw the 6-8 seconds

I remember yelling too many times for Romo to get the ball snap to avoid delay of game penalites (a few did happen) but in general Tony ROmo did not have this kind of tempo to the offense and I don’t remember 6-8 seconds on the playclock when the ball was snapped. I agree this is somewhere Tony can improve his play…but of course, let’s not forget that the tempo of practices have been improved when JG became HC, so that likely plays a big role as well.

"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Dec 6, 2010 1:09 PM CST up reply actions  

I probably should have said this earlier...

the Whole 6-8 sec thing is just a guestamite from what I saw, however in has been awhile and I have slept since then….(afflicted with CRS) But I don remember thinking on most occasions “hey we got the Ball off,and there is still several secs left on the Play clock! Good Job Romo!”

"Of all the things I have lost , I miss my mind the most-Mark Twain

"There is a fine line between Genius and Insanity"-Oscar Levant

I’m not taking anything for granted until I’m sure they’re dead. Dallas is like Freddy Krueger
by Tracer Bullet on Nov 14, 2010 5:02 PM EST

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 6, 2010 1:14 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree 1000%

In 2007 when the offense was lighting it up, I don’t recall the clock running to under 5 seconds on every play. As a golfer, he should know that usually you play better when you play faster.

by illcowboy on Dec 6, 2010 1:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Hmmmm

Can we explore this?

To say that Kitna’s performance right now discredits anything Romo has down is simply frustrating as hell.

Why does this frustrate you?

Do you think people were saying something different in New England when the Bledsoe (he hadn’t led them to a bling, but was no slouch and had his supporters) was out and Brady was starting to light them up?

I would think that someone such as yourself would relish the thought of being able to use this opportunity to talk more about WHY you think people who disagree with you are missing something in their positions.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 10:05 AM CST up reply actions  

I see no evidence...

that Romo or Kitna are any more or less a leader than the other guy. Different styles, different personality types, different character traits. Moot point, from my perspective.

Offensive production, fall-off and team collapse as the season disintegrated, all that, it’s nothing new under the sun. The post-coaching-change revisions and adjustments to a new state (both physical and psychological), a subsequent resurgence and resurrection, also nothing new under the sun.

We have two starter-quality QB’s, granted one with more teams that would start him, but two men capable of leading during game time. Did Romo always display it the way we fans thought it should be displayed? No. Does Kitna? No. Romo’d sometimes sit, head-hanging, perhaps in thought trying to figure ways to win, perhaps discouraged, but not leading his team-mates and sometimes it would carry over to the field. Kitna, exuberant, more out-going on the field and sidelines, both with respect to his team-mate interaction and his very body language, but prone to occasional child-like antics on the field (a product of his exuberance and heart-on-his-sleeve out-going nature). Take issue with either, it’s your, a fan’s, opinion, but neither’s a valid indictment of the overall leadership qualities of either of these men. I’ve seen them both pat their chest on the field and take responsibility for botched execution or a play, indicate to their team-mates “it’s on me”, so to speak. They take responsibility, hold themselves accountable to their team-mates, the men they’re on the field with. That’s part of leadership. They both have the quality.

Debate which is better, more suited to a situation, but to say one’s leadership or performance for this team, this year, discredits the other is pure unadulterated BS in my eyes.

Brandon, I am not saying you said or implied any of the above, but your post and “simply frustrating” comment brought it out of me. This appeared to be where to place it in-thread. The whole nonsensical quibbling some do regarding the impact and qualities of these 2 QB’s, two I am proud to say were QB’s of my team, frustrates the hell out of me. I think we’re both (all?), happy both these guys are on our team, especially this year.

And I’m pretty sure you didn’t take Blings article as being a repudiation or discrediting of what Romo brings to the Cowboys table. At least I didn’t read that intent in it. I may be wrong, but I see it as being an invitation to an open-minded debate, discrediting neither of these QB’s. And I see your comment as yet another that illustrates that no one factor is “the key” or single determinant factor in this or any other situation.

It is the combination of circumstance and individuals, their confluent coincidence, which changes the past through the present into the future.

And this formerly disarrayed group of individuals once again into a team. A team with pride and dignity.

To put it simply, it’s all of them and the situation they’re in. Garrett, Miller, Romo, Scandrick, Kitna, Holley, Pasqualoni, Ball, Witten, Young, Dez, Parnell, Ware, Barron, DeCamillis, Davis,…

They are a team. Our team.

And back.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 6, 2010 10:45 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Word

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Word?

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 6, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions  

Just saying I agree.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 10:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Ok, thanks, I didn't know that's what it meant, Iron

And if you’re agreeing, I’ll not only take it as a compliment, but indication I’m not completely out-to-lunch.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 6, 2010 11:19 AM CST up reply actions  

Well Said tanstaaf

Talking of the team or it’s needs should be looked at as a positive.

by oldboysfan on Dec 6, 2010 6:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks, oldboysfan, I think in the end we all feel that way

The 400+ comments < 24 hrs this sh!t-disturber’s generated prove it. ;

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 6:57 AM CST up reply actions  

+9 Brandon

I do think however that Bling makes a few good points though…if Romo comes back and the Offense starts struggling, not saying it will, but if it does what does that say about Romo? the Other thing is considering the fact that Romo has been out for so long, if the offense does struggle, do you attribute it to rust? and if so How longdo you give him to work the Kinks out?

"Of all the things I have lost , I miss my mind the most-Mark Twain

"There is a fine line between Genius and Insanity"-Oscar Levant

I’m not taking anything for granted until I’m sure they’re dead. Dallas is like Freddy Krueger
by Tracer Bullet on Nov 14, 2010 5:02 PM EST

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 5, 2010 9:28 PM CST reply actions  

The Cowboys were not losing because Romo was playing poorly.

The Cowboys were competitive because Romo was on pace for the best season of his career. The Cowboys were losing because penalties, tipped passes, dropped balls, drive-killing sacks and penalties and poor defense and special teams were killing any chances the Cowboys had of winning.

The offense was moving the ball. Roy Williams and Miles Austin were on a tear. And Romo was leading the way. You can’t blame Romo for the holds, the false starts, the tipped passes for interceptions….I’m not saying Romo was completely innocent because he wasn’t, but the reason the Cowboys were still competitive was because of Romo.

When Kitna came in and Phillips was still coaching, those mistakes were still there. The dropped passes. The bad routes. The incredibly poor pass blocking and run blocking. The tipped passes for interceptions. And the Cowboys were getting blown out.

His first three games (all under Phillips), Kitna was sacked nine times and threw six interceptions. That’s two and half games, really.

In the four games since (all under Garrett), Kitna has been sacked just five times and only has two interceptions. The line was blocking better, the receivers were motivated…the whole team changed.

What’s the common denominator here?

This is why I’m not worried about any sort of struggling that may or may not happen when Romo plays again. He’s going to be rusty, every quarterback is after that amount of time off. So don’t judge him by that. But this team is different under Garrett and it’s going to continue to play hard when Romo comes back.

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by Brandon Worley on Dec 5, 2010 9:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I think its tough to attribute everything to Wade Phillips

Are the surrounding players playing better? definitely. Does practicing in pads help? yes. But this is the best this offense has played since early in 2008. And Garret’s been the OC the whole time. And we are not running the ball better right now (Colts game aside)…

I think its a combination of things, and the answer is definitely not simply Kitna is better than Romo. But I think its hard to state that Romo was playing at top 10 level without saying that Kitna is playing at an equally high level. I find it hard to believe this offense would be scoring more with Romo – any drive not stalled by the oline seems to result in a score. This team outside of the ol mistakes has been nearly flawless. And now we even overcome multiple oline mistakes in drives occasionally

Without doing a play by play, game by game comparison but my gut tells me its just impossible to compare the two. The whole team was making mistakes when Romo was qb. And that includes Romo. The mistakes are now at a minimum. Maybe its because our qb doesn’t feel like he has to be perfect. Maybe its because our D is actually forcing turnovers.

For me personally, this stretch has shown me that Tony Romo is not the end all be all for this franchise. We are putting up a bunch of points and I’m not sure the position players are playing any better than the 09 season.

by foyesboys on Dec 5, 2010 11:59 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't...

The key was getting this defense to play competitive football again, which Coach P has done. The defense is now playing in a system they can handle. I think thats resulted in a significant difference in terms of team play and points as a result.

After that – I think Garrett has the team believing and the result is nobody is trying to do too much and they no longer feel pressed to do too much to help the team. Our wrs can focus on their game. Our olbs can focus on their game. I don’t think its “attention to detail” that has our wrs catching most of the balls (or avoiding tipped ball INTs)

I don’t know. I’m not sure Garrett individually has done anything more than give this team a shot of confidence and with the addition of Wednesday practices, got them to play a little tougher on both sides of the ball. This team doesn’t get rattled like it seemed to be early in the season. But that also comes with winning – they now seem to expect to win, and its showing.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 12:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Really, BW?

Just that?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 10:32 AM CST up reply actions  

absolutely

The only reason why the team wasn’t winning under Romo was the lack of discipline and the mistakes. That of course can be directly attributed to the team getting complacent and lazy under Phillips.

Garrett changed the culture…had nothing to do with the qb play.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 6, 2010 12:53 PM CST up reply actions  

of course not, there were a lot of players who still practiced hard

and paid attention to detail and Romo was definitely one of them. I was talking about the majority of the team, not the true pros like Romo, Witten, Austin, Ware and Rat.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 6, 2010 2:43 PM CST up reply actions  

and how do you know that Romo practiced hard?

and paid attention to detail, since a lot of his critics have said that he tends to get sloppy with his footwork?

by texstar on Dec 6, 2010 2:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Terry knows

But you have know way of knowing.

by illcowboy on Dec 7, 2010 1:05 PM CST up reply actions  

that is way too funny

"Gentlemen, it's been a privilege flying with you." - Jim Lovell

by BishopWest on Dec 7, 2010 1:16 PM CST up reply actions  

coaches and players

His critics are haters, they have to find something to bitch about

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 7, 2010 1:21 PM CST up reply actions  

enlighten me........

how does a critic become instantly a hater? My mother was a pretty critical person, but I wouldn’t say she “hated” me. So explain yourself

by texstar on Dec 7, 2010 1:40 PM CST up reply actions  

So movie critics hate movies? Food critics hate food?

Now it all makes sense…

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 1:48 PM CST up reply actions  

haha...........

I guess I “hate” my kids when I criticize them too

by texstar on Dec 7, 2010 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Bad daddy, bad...

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 1:55 PM CST up reply actions  

I was talking about Romo critics specifically

not being critical in general. Romo critics simply don’t like the guy, I think thats extremely obvious and they’ll say criticize him about anything they can think of even if it’s not true or makes no sense.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 9, 2010 9:04 AM CST up reply actions  

oh I understand what a critic is but

any time someone says anything negative about Romo, you say they are a critic or “hater”. So what’s the difference. Think about it before responding.

by texstar on Dec 9, 2010 10:30 AM CST up reply actions  

OOOOOOOOHHHHHH, TEACHER! TEACHER!

I KNOW!

PICK ME!!!

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 9, 2010 10:41 AM CST up reply actions  

Situational

…there are no universals in the blogosphere.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 9, 2010 1:24 PM CST up reply actions  

thats not true

If it’s legit criticism, I won’t deny it.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 9, 2010 3:59 PM CST up reply actions  

so what do you consider to be a legitimate criticism of Romo?

Lifelong Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/

by Seanrude on Dec 9, 2010 4:04 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah, let's be specific.........

what is a valid criticism and I don’t mean a generalization of honing one’s skills. Example: would you admit that he sometimes forces plays when he should take what the defense gives him? Will you admit that he sometimes holds on to the ball because he’s trying to make a big play instead of dumping the ball off to someone else? These are all valid, well documented criticisms. Do you agree?

by texstar on Dec 9, 2010 4:24 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't like the beanies he wears

…and his short game in golf needs some work.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 9, 2010 4:38 PM CST up reply actions  

you are hilarious..........

We’re waiting Terry……not generalizations-real criticisms

by texstar on Dec 9, 2010 4:57 PM CST up reply actions  

The brace he had on didn't accessorize well with his hoodie

…so color palettes aren’t his forte.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 9, 2010 5:10 PM CST up reply actions  

actually, did you notice.......

that Romo’s mock turtleneck was just like Garrett’s? If memory serves me correctly, you wanted one of those. So, do you still want one since Romo is matching Garrett-LOL?

by texstar on Dec 9, 2010 6:26 PM CST up reply actions  

I thought Garrett's was different

…his had some kindof special blue stitching over the white mock t-neck.

I thought it would be perfect for when I go boarding.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 1:38 PM CST up reply actions  

maybe so........

but to tell you the truth, I didn’t look that closely. Maybe Terry knows?

by texstar on Dec 10, 2010 2:43 PM CST up reply actions  

LOL!

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 3:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Balanced offense

This is a much more balanced offense than when Romo was under center. JG is challenging the o-line to play better (and they have) has tried to establisht he run (it has worked in most cases) and helped keep the opponents pass rush off balance (Kitna less mobile though sacked less).

The biggst difference is JG as HC, JG as OC, and the player’s responding to that. But the debate continues…will Romo be back before the season ends to show what he can do with this new Cowboys squad?

"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Dec 6, 2010 1:14 PM CST up reply actions  

I think that is huge

As you and I and others have argued, the running game is every QB’s best friend.

But why now and not before? The same guy was calling the plays…

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 1:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Challenging the O-Line

Instead of compensating and assuming failure. It seems the O-Line has responded, and Houck has talked about how Wed practice with pads helos the big guys. I think it is a two fold change, philosophically and execution-wise.

"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Dec 6, 2010 1:29 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not going to argue this cause we constantly disagree...

I think the difference has moreso been that there is no early rust- we are scoring quickly in many of these games, getting a lead and therefore run the ball more often.

We are really not running more effectively (at least significantly more), just more often.

And no I don’t count the Colts game. They are consistently year after year a bad run D.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 1:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Disagree

For this team, running more is running more effectively.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 1:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Running more and more effectively

Not only do we have more rushing attempts in the 1st half (past 4 games) as well as the 2nd, but we have also increased our 3.6 ypa.

Even when we were down 17 to the Saints in the beginning of that game, and even when we were down against the Colts late in that game, we have not been giving up on the run like we used to.

This is a much more balanced offense and it has led to (in colaboration with other factors) fewer turnovers lost, fewer sacks allowed, fewer penalities, more 1st downs, more 3rd and managable situations, sustained drives, and opponents defenses being off balanced.

"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Dec 6, 2010 3:00 PM CST up reply actions  

ARGH!!!
Even when we were down 17 to the Saints in the beginning of that game, and even when we were down against the Colts late in that game, we have not been giving up on the run like we used to.

But why???

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 5:52 PM CST up reply actions  

just to let you know..

we didn’t give up on the run in the titans game either when we got down early.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 7:33 PM CST up reply actions  

What part of the game are you looking at specifically?

I went and looked at when they were down 17-3, Dallas 1st possession was 11 plays, only 3 of which were runs. On its next possession, still down 17-3, Dallas ran 8 plays, all passes, all from the shotgun.

That ratio is 3/16 run versus pass.

We didn’t buckle that easily against New Orleans.

So again I say, what changed?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Well one obvious difference is our OL didn't totally melt down in the TEN game...

we were sacked twice in the first 6 plays when we went down 17-3. There was also a holding penalty. We went from 1st and 10 to 2nd and 32….the drive was relatively balanced before that.

And the actual play count for that drive is 7 runs, 2 passes. It was 4 runs, 2 passes before a sack and 2 penalties. 4 passes, 2 runs to start a drive for Garrett is pretty normal. Getting sacked twice on 1 drive has probably happened 1 other time this season

The 2nd drive was a 2 minute drill, passing situation. We scored a td…..

by foyesboys on Dec 7, 2010 2:25 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm confused

At the 12:28 mark, which is when we went down 17-3 and first had the ball, here is what we did;

1st and 10 at DAL 29 T.Romo sacked at DAL 24 for -5 yards (J.Babin). PASS
 
2nd and 15 at DAL 24 (Shotgun) T.Romo pass short left to M.Austin to DAL 40 for 16 yards (S.Tulloch; V.Fuller). PASS
     
1st and 10 at DAL 40 F.Jones up the middle to DAL 45 for 5 yards (S.Tulloch). RUN
     
2nd and 5 at DAL 45 T.Romo pass short right to M.Bennett to TEN 47 for 8 yards (M.Griffin; S.Tulloch). Screen pass. PASS

1st and 10 at TEN 47 T.Romo scrambles right end to TEN 38 for 9 yards (M.Griffin). PASS

2nd and 1 at TEN 38 F.Jones up the middle to TEN 34 for 4 yards (J.Ford). RUN

1st and 10 at TEN 34 (Shotgun) T.Romo sacked at TEN 43 for -9 yards (J.Jones). PASS

2nd and 19 at TEN 43 (Shotgun) M.Barber up the middle to TEN 41 for 2 yards (C.Hope, S.Tulloch). PENALTY on DAL-M.Colombo, Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at TEN 41. RUN

2nd and 32 at DAL 44 T.Romo pass short middle to M.Austin to TEN 31 for 25 yards (M.Griffin). Penalty on DAL-D.Free, Offensive Holding, offsetting, enforced at DAL 44 – No Play. Penalty on TEN-T.Brown, Defensive Offside, offsetting. PASS

T.Romo sacked at DAL 42 for -2 yards (J.Babin). PASS

3rd and 34 at DAL 42 (Shotgun) T.Romo pass short left to J.Witten to DAL 45 for 3 yards (V.Fuller). PASS

4th and 31 at DAL 45 (Punt formation) M.McBriar punts 39 yards to TEN 16, Center-L.Ladouceur, downed by DAL-V.Butler.
 
I counted 3 runs and 8 passes. Are you counting something differently?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 9:58 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't think that's reason to discount the fact that Garrett called the play as a run or pass

After all, I am making a point about how Dallas (aka JG) had been abandoning the run prior to his ascension to HC.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 3:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Garrett's mind.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 7:08 AM CST up reply actions  

My point is, a whole lot has changed under Garrett. Plays on D and special

teams are now the difference makers. I’m happy to give Kitna credit for doing what he’s supposed to do, but don’t tell me that the overall culture, the change in D game planning, and the fear JG has instilled in these guys isn’t what has changed.

by Fernie67 on Dec 9, 2010 10:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Leadership is magical.

Thus it causes grandiose things like an undrafted 4th-string corner to have 101 and 97-yard TD returns in back-to-back games. Not that Romo himself didn’t get the benefit of the phenom that is Dez via a punt return TD against the Bears.

But let’s see how fast the leadership magic dries out and more importantly W’s in the column on the left without all these handy TD returns special teams and defense have been so kind to accommodate Mr. Kitna and his offensive brethren with. I hope Kitna gets something extra special for those Manning boys at the QB Club Christmas party; they certainly deserve it. Now don’t get me wrong; Kitna was awfully good against the Giants and did everything asked of him against the Colts, but ’dem Manning boys sure did him a big favor by tossing 3 TD passes of their own to the guys in silver and blue.

by MadMick on Dec 9, 2010 8:12 PM CST up reply actions  

So you're predicting a major fall-off for JK and, by extension, JG?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 1:39 PM CST up reply actions  

To the extent.

That both will have a lot harder time “winning” games(so to speak) without those helpers sprinkled in; yes. The Giants game definitely smelled like another game where the Cowboys started out strong but were bound to let eventually slip through their fingers and lose 27-26.

The O-line is still ragtag and the defense still gives up way too many passing yards However, considering that Kitna is playing considerably better than either McNabb or Derek “gigglebox” Anderson and those two are the drizzles it probably won’t take such fortuitous bounces(or brain farts by dudes named Hakeem and Blair) to beat either the Cards or Eagles.

by MadMick on Dec 11, 2010 7:05 PM CST up reply actions  

That's why they should just shelve Romo until next year.

Absolutely nothing to play for this year. It’s not like he needs to learn a new system if Garrett keeps the HC job.

by selke99 on Dec 6, 2010 12:49 AM CST up reply actions  

What do you think about the play calling graphic that was on screen last night?

It seems Jason has relied more on the running game since his ascension. Is that because Romo isn’t there? If so, does that mean the offense loses its current balance when he returns?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 10:08 AM CST up reply actions  

well, something just crossed my mind (which can be dangerous)........

what if Kitna is just going with the play that is being called and not audibling out of them? Maybe, Kitna is just going with the call more of time and not trying to be too cute?

by texstar on Dec 6, 2010 10:22 AM CST up reply actions  

think about it, we are getting the ball off quicker and with more time

on the clock. Also, by getting the play off faster, we don’t have nearly as many false starts.

by texstar on Dec 6, 2010 10:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Good point

I once asked OCC to write something up about Romo’s “kills” because, purely anecdotally, I thought the kill’s were turning into negative or zero yardage plays more often than not.

It makes you wonder if Kitna is also just better at pre-snap reads of the defense and seeing where open receivers will be given the play call.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 10:32 AM CST up reply actions  

agree completely.........

it’s pretty sad when a 38 yr. old has quicker reads isn’t it? (just kidding)

by texstar on Dec 6, 2010 10:33 AM CST up reply actions  

Glad you're kidding...

speaking as a >38’er.

Though the last thing I’m known for’s a quick read. ;

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 6, 2010 10:55 AM CST up reply actions  

hahaha........

since I’m always wanting the underdog to succeed, Kitna, has made this terrible season kinda fun. After reading about his lower-income upbringing ,being undrafted, and being able to succeed in the NFL for 14 or so years, is always a feel-good story. Looking at it from another angle, since Kitna grew up in a poor income area, he can relate to a lot of the younger guys like Bennett and Dez. They really admire him and he has been a role model to them. I like that positive influence on some of the younger ones. In fact, if you look at it, Bennett has stepped up a little bit lately.

by texstar on Dec 6, 2010 11:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Yep.

I think there is a bad association to some people cough cough Terry, that praising Kitna is like taking a shot at Romo.

I still think Romo is the better QB, but Kitna has been awesome the last 4 games. He’s played smart football and has made alot of nice throws.

You can like both.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 11:04 AM CST up reply actions  

You can?! No sh!t?!

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 6, 2010 11:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Yep, despite the heart-wrenching...

this season’s definitely become fun. Interesting to watch and discuss. And with the inspirational aspects, as you’ve mentioned, as part of the story, it’s all the better.

I think another poster wrote an article along those lines, somewhere. ;

Enjoy it, tex. The players and team, each nuance and aspect of the season, good and bad. Once passed, it’ll be memory and I sense you’re enjoying this living with the moment of it too.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 6, 2010 11:27 AM CST up reply actions  

You run more whenn you win

And Garrett’s done a lot more winning, let’s be honest.

Maybe he’s tweaked the ratios a little bit, but when you’re running over and over at the end of the game to run the clock out and get first downs, your run/pass ratio is going to indicate much more commitment to the run than it would if you were down 17 and throwing during the entire 4th Quarter.

by Key19 on Dec 6, 2010 10:39 AM CST up reply actions  

I dunno about that

Dallas has run the ball a whole lot more in all circumstances since JG took over

Starting the game, trailing, leading, it doesn’t seem to matter. Dallas is running the ball more now than at any time when Romo was starting.

I can’t explain why (neither could JG’s buddy, Aikman), but it’s clearly a philosophical shift and one that many of us have been clamoring for all year.

And I’m really happy for Tashard Choice. Whatever stigma has been attached to him should be erased after another solid performance yestrerday. I say hand that kid the rock until he breaks down. According to OCC, we don’t have much time until he does.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 10:46 AM CST up reply actions  

A stigma that never should have been there. Period.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 6, 2010 10:56 AM CST up reply actions  

"stigma"

I feel like its necessary to defend the teams’ decision on choice here.He started off the year getting minimal carries. His problem was that when he was in the game, he either made a momumental screwup of a fumble in the washington game, or couldn’t pass protect, which we need our rbs and tes to do since the line is so bad.

The result is Choice was bad in limited PT. How can anyone say he deserves more touches?

I don’t like the coaches strategy – I thought Choice earned more touches in 2009 after a great end to 2008. But this year, hes done zero to show he deserves more carries or even belongs on this team.

He is imo the best runner, but this team doesn’t run that well anyway. Pass blocking is an absolute must. And hes the worst of the 3 at that.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 1:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Did you miss the first half yesterday?

The Cowboys had 100 yards rushing in the 1st half alone. Yeah, it was against a pathetic Colts run D. But, it definitely wasn’t a case of “running over and over at the end of the game to run the clock out”.

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on Dec 6, 2010 11:07 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes, but I also think Barber has been a liability

I hate saying it, but seeing more of Choice will certainly validate or invalidate the POV.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:55 AM CST up reply actions  

yeah, I don't regularly read Spagnola........

but he said that for some strange reason, Barber has gotten into this funk of trying to bounce the play outside i.e. the 4th and 1 against the Saints. According to Spagnola, if Barber had run where he was supposed to instead of bouncing it out, he would have easily made the first down. Even the writers over at DC.com are wondering why Choice isn’t playing more.

by texstar on Dec 6, 2010 12:02 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think we'll have to wonder that much longer.

Barber is done. He’s not good at anything really anymore.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 12:17 PM CST up reply actions  

agreed.......

so is Jerry just being as @ by not giving Choice a whole lot of credit. Even after the win yesterday, he said that Choice is still a 3rd down back and so he needs to step up his special teams play. What’s with that?

by texstar on Dec 6, 2010 12:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Barber's always done that...

Imo, hes just breaking less tackles and looks slower. This team made a big mistake taking away that agressiveness that made him our spark in 2006 and 2007.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 1:35 PM CST up reply actions  

How did the team...

take away his agressiveness?

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 2:01 PM CST up reply actions  

well i could've worded that a hell of a lot better

but when they made barber the starter, they put an emphasis on reducing the number of hits he took. Also, this offseason he lost weight (reviews from camp were good at the time). These things imo represent unnecessary changes. The team never should have made him a starter an increased his workload. Hindsight is 20/20 I know.

Barber was great in his role – a part time player who could provide a spark when the team needed one and was imo the best “closer” in the game – when he had the ball in the fourth, this team just had an attitude to it. Teams weren’t going to stop us.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 2:54 PM CST up reply actions  

I think Barber looked quicker early on

He’s still a great pass-blocker and finisher.

But RB’s have short shelf lives.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 5:53 PM CST up reply actions  

that could be the case...

that its just natural wear from all the hits he took during his impressive 2 year stretch. But…it just feels to me like the team tried to make him into something he wasn’t. They should’ve given felix and choice many more carries the last two years.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 7:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:14 PM CST up reply actions  

I remember back in Training Camp...

where several former players, including Emmitt Smith, had talked to Barber about how to take fewer unnecessary hits to prolong his career.

You have to wonder if those talks had an impact…or if the advice came too late.

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on Dec 7, 2010 1:28 AM CST up reply actions  

I think both...

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 9:59 AM CST up reply actions  

Ditto.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 10:35 AM CST up reply actions  

Wrong!

We have been running more than passing in the 1st quarter (or at 50/50 split) in each of our last 4 games, something we did not do in the beginning of the season. Even when we were down 17 to the Saints, we continued to run the ball. This isn’t all 4th quarter rushing yards. You don’t run 43 times (like we did against the Colts) by only handing it off to seal the game in the 4th.

"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Dec 6, 2010 1:16 PM CST up reply actions  

But WHY?

I want to know the root cause!

Less faith in Kitna? More commitment from Houck’s guys? Conspiracy theory about JG wanting WP booted?

WHY????

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 1:20 PM CST up reply actions  

maybe, Kitna is not deviating from what the play .......

that has been called as much? He just goes with the script, get to the line of scrimmage, gets the ball out of his hands etc.? I honestly don’t know but it sure makes you wonder if Romo was changing all these run-plays into passing plays?

by texstar on Dec 6, 2010 1:23 PM CST up reply actions  

watch the games closely

Kitna kills as many plays at LOS as Romo did.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 6, 2010 2:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Kitna kills a lot too..

and they seem to end the same way – with a marginal gain cause our ol can’t run block.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 2:50 PM CST up reply actions  

A few reasons

Protect a less than mobile QB (though Kitna has done some damage scrambling).
Challenging the O-Line instead of coddling them (less shotgun formations and less quiting on the run in the 1st quarter).
Wed. practices with pads.
The players worrying about being released and playing better. The O-line not injured and playing together longer.
JG always wanted to strive for a balanced attack (at least that is what he says in his press conferences) and I assume he realizes prolific offenses are able to run AND pass.
And as Testar said, it makes me wonder how many times Romo killed a run play and audibled to a pass play.

"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Dec 6, 2010 1:35 PM CST up reply actions  

another theory

O line run blocking better now that they practice in pads.

by I_miss_Switzer on Dec 6, 2010 1:35 PM CST up reply actions  

This part makes no sense at all
JG always wanted to strive for a balanced attack (at least that is what he says in his press conferences) and I assume he realizes prolific offenses are able to run AND pass.

He had total control of the offensive play calls and went away from the run too easily.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 5:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Answered elsewhere.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 7:12 AM CST up reply actions  

+1000

Give a Romo Led offense the improved field position and attitude of the JG led cowboys and I dont think they are WORSE! Dont we all just wish the coaching change had happened before the Injury, oh well we are in , “wait till next year mode” anyway, but at least it is looking up.

And for the TOTAL Idiot who commented above that Romo has 2-3 years left……. are you serious? I dont think Tony has even peaked yet, so I would expect at least 5-6 years of peak play before we see a decline. Just look at the league now, it is set up to maximize longevity of QB’s (given you dont give the defense free, unblocked shots). Romo playing well beyond 35-36 years is highly probable.

by Dooud on Dec 8, 2010 3:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Calm down and don't call people idiots for disagreeing

You have a different opinion? fine.

But how do you know he won’t taper off at the age of 32, which the stats say is when QB’s start to decline? You don’t.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 7:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah but by that same logic you can't suggest he will either.

The fact is we don’t know. So, despite what the stats say, we have to take what we know and go from there. And what I can see is that there are no signs of physical decline at all for Romo so I have extreme doubts that next year we will see any sort of noticeable, significant decline.

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 8, 2010 7:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Not true

The fact is that the numbers say, in all likelihood, that he won’t.

The possibility exists, but the chances are quite slim.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 10:08 PM CST up reply actions  

See above.

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 9, 2010 2:02 AM CST up reply actions  

BTW, nobody has seen him play since he BROKE A BONE

I’m sure no one thought Kurt Warner’s thumb would derail him like it did, but injuries take their toll.

Take it from an older guy who has had more than you. :-)

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 10:10 PM CST up reply actions  

No doubt. I really can't see his clavicle being too much of a problem though.

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 9, 2010 2:02 AM CST up reply actions  

2

But that’s after being on the shelf for a couple of years.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 9, 2010 10:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Also let’s not forget Kitna is a 38 year old journeyman quarterback. NFL history is filled with backups that were hot for one season. Before this game Kitna’s TD-INT ratio was 159-158. I’m not buying into the Kitna hype.

by MdFan24 on Dec 5, 2010 9:57 PM CST reply actions  

Look at the teams he played on

He said himself that he’s waitied his whole career to be on a team with this kind of talent.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 10:09 AM CST up reply actions  

If pretty much everything else has stayed the same except the HC and DC....

that’s where you have to look for explanation of team improvement.

"Gentlemen, it's been a privilege flying with you." - Jim Lovell

by BishopWest on Dec 5, 2010 10:15 PM CST reply actions  

I agree that most of these play a factor, but you're forgetting one thing:

Kitna and Garrett have benefited greatly from drastic turnovers that have changed games. First it was McCann 2 games in a row, and now two Ints. returned for TD’s against PManning??

So, the offense has not really scored all those points and is not averaging 34 a game.

And even more importantly, while I like the changes Garrett has brought, I’m sure even he realizes that he has caught some good breaks since taking over.
  Our local statistical geniuses can add more about how the Cowboys’ turnovers in general, and especially ones returned for TD’s, will return to the statistical mean! In 4 games Garrett’s had 3 interceptions returned for touchdowns. Have the Cowboys ever done that? Good luck ever getting 12 TD’s out of interceptions over the course of a season (the recent rate)!

That’s why this realist is taking JG’s success with a grain of salt.

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Dec 5, 2010 11:28 PM CST reply actions  

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/12/cowboys-interception-return-td.html

The Cowboys’ two interceptions returned for touchdowns marked the fourth time in club history Dallas had two interceptions returned for touchdowns in a game, and the first since Nov. 4, 2001 against the New York Giants.

The Cowboys’ four interceptions off Peyton Manning were the most in a game since they had four against Miami on Sept. 16, 2007.

I’ll write about this later. If you’re counting on 4 int / 2 returned of TD’s to win games …. you’re not winning often.

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Dec 6, 2010 8:58 AM CST up reply actions  

my point exactly

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Dec 6, 2010 9:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Realist, you and FiTT are both right and stating fact...

there’s only one word to respond in any meaningful way to your point.

Team.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 6, 2010 11:00 AM CST up reply actions  

+1

Team game for the win. Is it me or are FiTT and RL actually not happy about the victories and the way we are winning?!

By the way, if you ask the Steelers and the Ravens, they’ll tell you you can win a Super Bowl even if you are depending on your defense to win you games.

"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Dec 6, 2010 1:18 PM CST up reply actions  

I wouldn't depend on our defense for much until they get mean and physical

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 1:20 PM CST up reply actions  

HAHA

No doubt. I am not comparing our current defense to the SuperBowl winning Ravens and Steelers…though I would love it if we became a physical smash-mouth team (at least defensively). I am just saying that relying on your defense for turnovers to help you win games should be a goal of every DC.

"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Dec 6, 2010 1:24 PM CST up reply actions  

I have mixed feelings. Overall, I'm glad Wade is out and in favor of keeping JG.

And I’ve certainly enjoyed some victories.

But I see some overoptimism here. The record is good, but some bounces have gone the Cowboys’ way-just like they weren’t at the beginning of the year.

It won’t keep happening. The defense, which was so good last year, is Bad. That’s a capital B, on purpose. The turnovers have covered the warts, but you can’t count on this many for a whole season, esp. with the big TD returns.

A win’s a win, although at tis point I’m just as happy with a loss and a higher draft pick.

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Dec 6, 2010 5:24 PM CST up reply actions  

I want to win every game

…that whole draft position thing never made sense to me.

But I get where you are coming from. This draft looks like it has 8-9 blue chippers and then it drops off dramatically.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 5:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Again, why I care less about the draft, esp. now

Play to win, let the chips fall where they will. Even in a prime draft year as per our needs.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 7:24 AM CST up reply actions  

Agree on the need to fix the D...

but at serious odds with you on the win/loss/draft-positioning mind-set. It’s reprehenisble conduct and counter to why the game’s even played . To have that kind of extraneous-to-the-game-itself longer-term strategy poison a contest denegrates the sport and brings on fan apathy.

It may be the one thing that, if perceived as a methodology of a team and not mistake or trend (which can be corrected), would cause me to seriously consider giving up being a fan.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 7:22 AM CST up reply actions  

well,

I’m just as happy if they lose.
But I’m a fan, not a player, so there’s a difference. I still have last week’s game on my DVR to watch because they won. I didn’t even want to rewatch any of the losses this year!
So I enjoy a win more emotionally. But looking at it dispassionately, after the fact I’m just as happy locking up 1 5th or 6th pick.

If I was a player or associated with a team it would be different, more like what you’re saying. But I don’t have that responsibility!

I’m competitive. I once practically killed myself playing half-court on a stinkin’ cruise ship because some jerk athletes came on and thought they were going to win so easily. I can’t stand to lose when I play!

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Dec 7, 2010 11:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Understand your perspective, RL

You hit on the key word. Responsibility. It’s not ours as fans. A man can only control what’s in his domain to control.

I definitely understand your realistic approach to your views on things. Think we share some of the cynic/optimist duality it requires.

I think we’re just talking from two different contexts here, but in agreement generally.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 10:14 AM CST up reply actions  

INT-TDs definitely have some luck involved

But the defense under Wade had almost no chance of those because they never actually made INTs in the first place! You can’t have good INT-TD luck if you’re never making INTs in the first place. We have 8 INTs in 4 games since Garrett (and Paul P.) took over. Before that, the Cowboys had 5 INTs in 8 games under Wade.

The fact of the matter is that the only thing that’s changed on the defense is new management, and you can credit Paul P. if you’d like, but Garrett becoming involved in the defense for the first time ever cannot be discounted. Both of their combined efforts have put the Cowboys defense in better position to make game-changing plays, and when they’ve actually been given the chance to make game-changing INT-TDs, they’ve capitalized on their opportunities. I’m not saying they will always return almost half of their INTs for TDs, but Garrett and Paul P. are at least giving the guys a lot more opportunities to do so, which is much more than you can say about life under Wade. The team has certainly caught breaks under Garrett, but they at least are giving themselves opportunities nowadays.

The best teams are both lucky and very good. The Cowboys are both under Jason Garrett, so there’s no taking of grains of salt needed in my opinion.

by Key19 on Dec 6, 2010 10:47 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Have to add

…when the breaks are coming, Kitna and company are taking full advantage and punching it into the end zone rather than settling for FG’s.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 10:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Hard to say turnovers are purely based on luck

Has our defense suddenly become really lucky…or might the change to more zone coverage have led to more INTs? Sure, there is some luck involved, but having players swarming to the ball and being in the right place is a big factor on these INTs. Even getting a DL to tip up a pass that gets picked, that is not all luck, that is a DL doing his job well. Or Jenkins reading the pass, breaking away from his WR and tipping the pass intended for someone he wasn’t covering is a great individual effort.

"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Dec 6, 2010 1:22 PM CST up reply actions  

I never said they were purely based on luck

I said that luck is certainly involved, but that the main factor was being in the proper position to make a play, which is exactly what this defense has done since Wade was fired.

by Key19 on Dec 6, 2010 6:34 PM CST up reply actions  

I never said they were purely based on luck

I said that luck is certainly involved, but that the main factor was being in the proper position to make a play, which is exactly what this defense has done since Wade was fired.

by Key19 on Dec 6, 2010 6:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Luck is merely the coincidence of preparation and opportunity

That’s to both you and Key19.
Please continue, gentlemen. ;

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 7:28 AM CST up reply actions  

Catching the ball helps, too

Anyone count how many sure interceptions have been dropped by the Cowboys secondary? Troy even commented about this on Sunday – the reputation (well-earned) by the Cowboys defense for having poor hands.

Check out most of TNew’s “passes defensed”. Most have been interceptions that have been dropped.

I can’t count how many plays I have watched and thought, “Oh, man, if he had held on, that was a pick-six.”

Somehow, the culture has changed, these guys have become ball hawks, and they are looking to make plays and take the ball away.

Even in the one JG loss, New Orleans taught them that aggressively going after the ball can be rewarding.

Cowboys and Longhorns - what happened this year?
Spurs - something special - again!

by hookerhome on Dec 8, 2010 8:44 AM CST up reply actions  

It's a razor's edge that splits the hair opportunity offers up

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 10:17 AM CST up reply actions  

One small comment chain

two great quotes/proverbs. Good work!
While I like the razor’s edge one, I love

Luck is merely the coincidence of preparation and opportunity

"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Dec 8, 2010 10:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Luck one's a paraphrasing of...

related sentiments on the part of many people, Landry included.
Razor was simply a top-of-the-head remark.
I can live with being second to Tom and the wisdom of others. ;

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 11:49 AM CST up reply actions  

the change in defensive strategy has been monumental..

we rarely rush the QB right now. Our guys play a lot of zone but mix it up. The result is that our cbs aren’t constantly on an island running side by side (or many times behind) their man. The safeties aren’t charged with covering the whole back end of the secondary like Ball often times was. They can keep everything in front of them, and are moving quickly towards the ball.

The number of dumb ilb blitzes has gone down probably by an order of magnitude lol.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Generally true

But 2 in one game?
A 107 yarder by a rookie worth 14 points?

Not going to happen much.

Before we credit Garrett’s philosophy for the changes-less blitzing, more coverage, I’d wait for more games before I said that. A bigger sample size, as CoolCC would say.
   After all, Wade’s philosophy was supposed to have the same effect.
As teams adjust, there’s no guarentee they’ll keep this up. Those are still the same very average athletes out there in the secondary and at LB.

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Dec 6, 2010 5:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Hmmm

Garrett is one Roy Williams DUMBle away from being 4-0.

Right now, the optimism is warranted.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 5:58 PM CST up reply actions  

you could also argue...

hes a hakeem nicks screwup and luckily recovered fumble from being 1-3 with close losses just like Wade.

The team does look better to my eyes, but they are just barely coming out on the winning side.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 7:00 PM CST up reply actions  

That's a fair point

…to which I have no rebuttal.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 11:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Somebody, quick, put this in writing....
…to which I have no rebuttal.

I think it’s a first. ;)

"Gentlemen, it's been a privilege flying with you." - Jim Lovell

by BishopWest on Dec 7, 2010 11:59 AM CST up reply actions  

Possibly the last!

:-)

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 1:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Personally, I'm in shock...

yet looking forward to the next time. ;)

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 2:27 PM CST up reply actions  

man oh man, you are in for a slew of comments on this...

Thanks, BW, for pointing it out. ;

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 6:20 PM CST up reply actions  

ummm, I believe he did,...

himself, and we’ve his own words should we ever require them. ;

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 2:29 PM CST up reply actions  

done Foyesboys..

4th line in sigs

"Of all the things I have lost , I miss my mind the most-Mark Twain

"There is a fine line between Genius and Insanity"-Oscar Levant

I’m not taking anything for granted until I’m sure they’re dead. Dallas is like Freddy Krueger
by Tracer Bullet on Nov 14, 2010 5:02 PM EST

That's a fair point …to which I have no rebuttal.
by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 9:55 AM PST

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 7, 2010 8:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Ummm...

Bud, if it was me, I’d remove it.

Hell, I’d never put it on.

No offense. Personal perspective.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 10:41 PM CST up reply actions  

I have no problem being mentioned in the same list of quotes with Twain

Finally getting my due, if you ask me!

:-)

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 12:58 AM CST up reply actions  

D@mn good point, Blings, damn good

Made me laugh to boot.
Missed that implication. ;

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 10:20 AM CST up reply actions  

Please ignore my prior comment

Rescind my objection utterly and completely in light of new evidence.
It was poorly thought through. ;

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 10:24 AM CST up reply actions  

it's the same point I was making!

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Dec 7, 2010 11:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Then I have no rebuttal to you, either

Question: when the supposed luck runs out, does Dallas start losing those tight games?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 12:57 AM CST up reply actions  

i don't know.....

As a rebuttal to my own comment, you can’t totally take away the fact that we made those plays happen..well except the fumble in the colts game, it is pure dumb luck we didn’t lose the game on the following play. Also, I don’t like our chances if Wayne catches the ball that hits him in the numbers in OT. But we made the INTs happen – its not like Manning made poor throws. Jenkins made a really good play on the ball in OT.

The team IS playing better, yet at the same time they have still needed luck to win. But it seems like right now, they (for the most part) aren’t making those critical mistakes that lose games – the opposition has made them.

by foyesboys on Dec 8, 2010 1:20 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree

Wayne blew that comeback for Peyton

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 7:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Luck? You're talking luck?

How do I make those written words sound Mora-ish?

Luck is merely preparation coinciding with opportunity.

Reply’s to your’s and foye’s comments and entirely off-the-cuff.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 10:41 AM CST up reply actions  

how about this...

Knowledge and skill overcome superstition and Luck

Knowledge and Skill overcome Superstition and Luck- Dawn Patrol Motto-Spartan College of Aeronautics and Technology

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 8, 2010 4:20 PM CST up reply actions  

I would accept that as an axiom...

though I doubt you’d want to take this futher than that, IdtC. Trust me, my friend, it’d be agonizing. And this isn’t really the place for it, I think.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 6:28 PM CST up reply actions  

why not tan?

that “axiom” is one of the founding principals of the most highly rated Aviation schools in the Country…. I am not just saying that because I went there either….

Knowledge and Skill overcome Superstition and Luck- Dawn Patrol Motto-Spartan College of Aeronautics and Technology

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 9, 2010 1:14 AM CST up reply actions  

It's not an insult or denigration, IdtC

These type of statements are axioms, by definition, so there is no need to quote the word (as above) or percieve and insult or offense in my having used the term.

And I said this isn’t the place for it to be succinct (for a pleasant change, eh ;) as it’s a long, painful excercise in logic illustrating how the luck definition axiom and the one you presented differ while containing several key elements in common and how the one I stated would be more appropriate with respect to the luck statements Blings and foyes were making regarding sports situations.

That’s all it was, not an insult in any way.

Mellow, man, mellow.

This is a sports comment place, not one for lengthly non-sports discussion. That’s the reason I was trying to avoid all this. The whole thing just doesn’t suit this place.

But here, do me a favor and look up axiom so you can see the way I mean it above and consider “knowledge and skill” as being constituent elements of preparation. After all, that’s what your schooling did. It prepared you, through a combination of knowledge and skill learning to be prepared for the situations you face.

There was no insult or offense intended in any manner whatsoever. If it was taken that way by you, I apologize for my briefness there making you feel that way.

It was to avoid this and worse. Jeez, I come here to talk Cowboys, not get off on these tangents.

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 10, 2010 8:00 AM CST up reply actions  

it goes back to 50-50

except not like this year, which was lose a bunch then win a bunch.
More evenly spread out.

If JG keeps up this running game, they’ll keep winning more than they lose, though. (And it has NOT been just because they’ve had leads as some have said, it’s been game-long strategy).

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Dec 8, 2010 9:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, the running game may be the wild card

I wish I understood the reasons behind the change…

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 10:11 PM CST up reply actions  

and you deserve a congratulations, I do believe.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 2:30 PM CST up reply actions  

You also forgot the, "I'm head coach, so now I suddenly call 50% running plays" aspect.

5B, you of all people should realize how this has helped Kitna! Isn’t this what you and I have argued with others about, the need for a consistent running game? And lo and behold, suddenly we have one, and a 38-year old QB looks pretty good!

So what’s up with that? Why is he all of a sudden calling so many running plays? Was the recent post on this site by ProudBoyz so far off? I stayed out of that conversation, and agree that he wouldn’t have consciously sabotaged Wade.

  But, why? Did he get religion about the running game?
Does being HC and having more responsibility make him more conservative?

It’s a strange, drastic, change.

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Dec 5, 2010 11:33 PM CST reply actions  

I think its rather clear that in general the offensive line has benefitted

from the change to Garrett and has coincidentally given JG much more reason to run. Even Houck has come out in support of the Wed. practices as far as how much they have helped the offensive line. Even today though, I thought JG ran too much at times. We got in some really poor down situations thanks to running the ball at times and it almost cost us a leading TD if it hadn’t been for a leverage penalty on the Colts on that FG.

Furthermore, you yourself acknowledge that the offense hasn’t really improved that much so it is odd that you would then point out how much of a difference running more has made.

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 5, 2010 11:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Another reason MAY be that....

if Romo was still at QB, we would pass more and run less, but since Kitna is QB, Garrett feels better about “protecting” him with a run game and let him “drive the bus” and not try to win the game on his arm. Just a thought.

"Gentlemen, it's been a privilege flying with you." - Jim Lovell

by BishopWest on Dec 5, 2010 11:46 PM CST up reply actions  

the only reason the strategy is working

is cause we are consistently coming through on 3rd and medium/long on plays where the run game doesn’t produce anything. The run game (colts game aside) is producing nothing consistent.

I really don’t think its possible to point to anything in particular. This team is just executing better, consistently putting up points. Its allowing us to run the ball more as games go on.

The only really significant change I can see is defensive turnovers.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 12:06 AM CST up reply actions  

Defensive turnovers

may come from the change in scheme we’ve seen since Wade’s exit. ie, more zone, less blitzing.

"Gentlemen, it's been a privilege flying with you." - Jim Lovell

by BishopWest on Dec 6, 2010 12:11 AM CST up reply actions  

they are, for sure

There has been a real significant Xs and Os change since Wade left, and its helped this defense out tremendously. It cannot be understated how important turnovers are when you’re getting as many as we have been getting in the last 4 games

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 12:20 AM CST up reply actions  

Less predictability

…no one is quite sure WHEN we’ll dial up the blitz.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 10:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Did they even blitz once yesterday?

I didn’t see it.
Even though the pressure, even from Ware, was minimal, esp. as the game went on.

And I thought their OLine was “in shambles”? They sure shut down our pass rush the 2nd half.

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Dec 6, 2010 5:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes

Ware and spencer came on a couple of 3rd and long’s.

On the final Indy drive, I think they should have blitzed more.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 5:59 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't count those guys as blitzers-do you?

To me that’s just 4 guys.
I only se a blitz in this 3-4 when a 5th guy joins in.

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Dec 7, 2010 11:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah

And most of the time they are DE’s in the nickel on 3rd down.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 8, 2010 12:08 AM CST up reply actions  

If they both come, yes.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 12:36 AM CST up reply actions  

Yep

PP is only sending them on some 3rd and long’s

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 7:37 PM CST up reply actions  

It's like what Garrett said in a presser...

they’re not behind as much now, so he can afford to run the ball, slow the game down, and keep this new D (which is more of a bend don’t break so is on the field longer) off the field. Before they were behind coming out of the gate because the D was so terrible. The offense couldn’t afford to punt.

by selke99 on Dec 6, 2010 12:52 AM CST up reply actions  

also...

generally against the colts, your strategy is to keep Manning off the field.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 2:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Wouldn't that be the same with Vick, Brees, Eli, etc.?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 10:17 AM CST up reply actions  

no...

against those defenses, running the ball is much harder. So your strategy puts you in “need to convert 3rd and medium to 3rd and long if you run the ball heavily”.

If the Colts had a great run D, teams would pass.

So I guess my above comment was misleading. Its about the team more than manning.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions  

But when you play a high-powered offense, you have two choices...

try to beat them in a shootout or try to limit the number of their possessions by controlling the clock.

So I think it is about Manning in some regard.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 11:57 AM CST up reply actions  

but you need to SCORE while limiting number of possesions...

I think if the Colts decided to build their defense starting with their run D, teams would just pass on them. And appreciate the change in strategy since Manning puts up so many points that you NEED to pass on them. I don’t think the Colts would consistently be 12-4 or whatever if you replaced Freeney and Mathis with the Vikings DTs.

They are a team that year after year is built on their passing offense and passing defense. Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis are two guys you do not want to have to block every play for a whole drive.

I agree to some extent with you, but the way the Colts play defense has a lot to do with it too.

by foyesboys on Dec 7, 2010 3:49 PM CST up reply actions  

I think if you limit your opponent's possessions, you don't have to score nearly as much as you would if you didn't

…which I think means we generally agree. Not sure though…

:-)

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 4:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes, Larry

I think that Joe Buck and Troy Aikman did a fine job (especially Aikman) of outlining this theory during the game.

But, you’re correct. I cannot explain why Jason is suddenly doing EVERYTHING you and I said he should do earlier in the year.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 10:16 AM CST up reply actions  

He reads Realist's and your comments/articles here?

   ;

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 6, 2010 11:03 AM CST up reply actions  

I only wish!

hey, it took an injury, but we’re finally seeing more of Choice/Jones and less of Barber!
That should have happened offseason!

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Dec 6, 2010 5:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Be careful what you wish for... ;

And re: Choice, my views on that are elsewhere. Suffice it to say, with what he’s shown since drafting, before that in college ranks, the views of people far smarter than me in football, this is the one back I’d keep if we had to keep one. Said that once seeing all 3 on the merry-go-round.

Love having MBIII, Felix, their contributions and styles, but if only 1 of 3 could be kept, I have my choice and others have theirs.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 7:56 AM CST up reply actions  

He simply changed his mind

Perhaps influenced by your “being HC and having more responsibility make him more conservative”, perhaps seeing change was needed in light of the changed circumstances, maybe more. And all things together.

While I applaud you, Blings, all the rest looking for answers, your common “why” can only be answered by being privy to the man’s thoughts. Even he may not be able to give you a definitive answer, and I take anything anyone says with a grain of salt. He himself may not be conscious of the reason. You’d simply have to be inside his mind and examine this thoughts to find the answer to your common question.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 7:45 AM CST up reply actions  

I like the way Aikman set it up on the broadcast

At some point, Garrett will be asked the question by the media, who I bet spend some time reading blogs like this one.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 10:01 AM CST up reply actions  

+1

Troy’s a keeper. Always was. ;

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 10:32 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree

and threw some ideas out as possibilities, but nothing definitive…..it’s really rhetorical for us, you’re right.

But it sure is interesting-and in my eyes, good.

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Dec 7, 2010 11:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep, interesting, good and the reason we debate things seeking to answer and understand

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 10:45 AM CST up reply actions  

Romo has no fire

No matter what you say about his talent or your view on his ability to win it all for us, its pretty clear that he is not the kind of take charge, lead the team, put a foot up someone’s rear when needed, type QB.

Kitna has shown heart. I hope Romo is taking studious notes while on the sidelines. I also hope he goes back to being a bit more a free spirit back there. Would the Romo of today scrambled for 19 yards? Probably noth. He’s been forced to be something that he is not.

by RisingSunCowboy on Dec 5, 2010 11:35 PM CST reply actions  

You mean like when he scrambled 40 yards to get a 1st down after a botched snap?

Or in that same game when he rushed over 20 yards for a TD score because the defense was playing man coverage and he knew he could run it in to the endzone?

Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!

by cowboy78 on Dec 5, 2010 11:44 PM CST up reply actions  

If you mean the game from a few seasons ago (Colts game, I think)

Then yes. That was the old Romo before people started saying he was too much of a gunslinger and he tried to change his ways.

by RisingSunCowboy on Dec 6, 2010 1:54 AM CST up reply actions  

Okay...

So since I don’t see Matt Ryan running around doing the rah-rah stuff and “putting his foot up people’s butts”, that makes him a bad QB?

"If the Cowboys are God's team, the 2010 season is the Book of Job."

by Rat-Pack on Dec 5, 2010 11:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Pure speculation here..

but I think Matty Ice is probably more of a leader than Romo. I love the guy but just wish he would be more interactive on the sidelines. But maybe he does this in private and I never see it.

by selke99 on Dec 6, 2010 12:53 AM CST up reply actions  

I know right.

Like when we were down 17-0 to the Saints and Romo was on the sidelines getting the defense pumped up.

What a terrible leader.

by G_SWAG on Dec 6, 2010 7:35 AM CST up reply actions  

What set Romo apart

Was his ingenuity, his ability to create. For example, Steve Young was a great quarterback. What if he at some point decided he would give up the aspect of his game where he could move around and create on the fly? He wouldn’t be the same guy.

by RisingSunCowboy on Dec 6, 2010 1:56 AM CST up reply actions  

So what are you suggesting?

That somehow Romo has become impotent?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 10:36 AM CST up reply actions  

oh man, that's going to cut into the celebrity girlfriend possibilities, now ain't it

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 6, 2010 11:04 AM CST up reply actions  

that was bad Tan...

it was rude, crude, and socially unacceptable….(wish I had thought of it first!) LOL

"Of all the things I have lost , I miss my mind the most-Mark Twain

"There is a fine line between Genius and Insanity"-Oscar Levant

I’m not taking anything for granted until I’m sure they’re dead. Dallas is like Freddy Krueger
by Tracer Bullet on Nov 14, 2010 5:02 PM EST

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 6, 2010 11:34 AM CST up reply actions  

I wouldn't go that far

I do think that being undrafted he maybe has a complex or a lack of confidence that he can do things his natural way and be successful. Obviously he is a proflific passer. Facts won’t let us debate that. However, I worry that his greatest assets were some of the things I think he has had beaten into his head he needs to change. I don’t know. This is all pure speculation from a guy procrastinating at work.

by RisingSunCowboy on Dec 6, 2010 7:31 PM CST up reply actions  

It's not an outlandish POV at all

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks for the...
This is all pure speculation from a guy procrasinating at work.

…laugh.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 8:00 AM CST up reply actions  

I think Romo has shown heart many times through his career..

I truly do not believe that has anything to do with this teams’ resurgence.

I will say that I think Kitna’s will to pull the ball down and run has helped this team out. I think Romo could maybe learn something there. Romo’s has opportunities.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 12:10 AM CST up reply actions  

I suppose

I am saying more that Kitna has shown great heart, not that Romo has none. I just feel like in a short amount of time Kitna has taken charge of the team. Did you honestly ever feel like Romo was in charge of the team?

by RisingSunCowboy on Dec 6, 2010 1:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Yep. Keith Brooking just the other day essentially referred to him as the top dog in the organization.

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 6, 2010 7:18 AM CST up reply actions  

I think he meant paycheck-wise

:-)

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 10:29 AM CST up reply actions  

You've got me curious how that'd stack up vs Brady-Gronkowski

Though one’s much longer term, larger sample size.
And it’s ours, all ours.
I’m so pleased I could dance a jig.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 8:04 AM CST up reply actions  

Romo+Witten=Brady's salary.....

I believe?? Witten gets paid practically nothing. Romo is probably in the bottom 5 of legitimate everyday starter nfl qbs.

by foyesboys on Dec 7, 2010 3:51 PM CST up reply actions  

No offense, I think you missed my point...

I’m pleased, so pleased I could dance a jig, that we have the tandem we do. That was my point.

You likely don’t know my views on one of those players.

It wasn’t and isn’t about the per dollar production comparison for me, but since you brought it up.

Without doing the stats correlation:
Brady: 7.5 million
Gronkowski: 320k + 207,500 playing time bonus (322yds, 12.4 avg)
Romo: 8.5 million
Witten: 2.641 million + 500,000 roster bonus (702yds, 10.8 avg)

Those are restricted to 2010. Also took Gronkowski’s 830k playing time bonus over 4yr contract and simply portioned it out evenly. The yards breakdown isn’t tandem-restricted, which in NE’s case is easier than Dallas’ this year, I think you’d agree.

I wasn’t arguing, just making a comment about being curious about the bang-for-buck comparison. The NE sample size is ridiculously small compared to Romo/Witten. Even adjusted, and how would you determine an appropriate margin of error, the comparison’s validity is questionable.

if you want to dig further into it, have at ‘er. I’m interested in what you come up with.

It was just a thought that popped into my head.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 7:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Brady's only making that much? I thought he signed some ridiculous contract

I just looked it up and that goes into effect next year I believe. Then he becomes an 18 million qb.

So you are right…for now.

by foyesboys on Dec 7, 2010 9:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Only that much?

Being right for now is all I can ask.

As for the 18 million qb, I don’t know where you looked it up, but I don’t see it.

Five-year 78.5 million contract. SIgned in September 2010. The day before his car accident, if you recall.

48.5 million guaranteed
16 million signing bonus

2010: 7.5 million
2011: 5.75 million + 4 million roster bonus
2012: 5.75 million + 6 million roster bonus
2013: 9.75 million + 5 million roster bonus
2014: 9.75 million + 5 million roster bonus
2015: Free Agent

I don’t add up 18 million in any of those years.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 10:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Cap value?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 12:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Unsure right now. I'll see what I can dig up.

How do you mean it, Blings? Not sure I understand the question.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 9:20 AM CST up reply actions  

Near as I've determined

Cap value: 2010: $17.4 mil

Interesting tidbit: 16 mil signing bonus has 10 mil deferred to Aug. 2011.

Also, I stand corrected on 2010 7.5 mil compensation above.
2010: 10.5 mil : 3.5 mil (existing contract) + 4 mil (advanced from new contract ) + 3 mil (existing bonus earned)

Pats management, Brady and his people aren’t stupid. Complex contract and you have to admire the 10 mil deferment above, a nice “little” lockout insurance.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 1:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Thank you kindly, sir

I’m still looking for the definitive league-wide single source.

Appreciate the link, OCC.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 2:02 PM CST up reply actions  

the definitive, league-wide single source is the USA Today Salary database. Unfortunately, they do not update their database until the season is over. Isn’t much longer though …

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 8, 2010 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks again, OCC

Knew that one. I should have qualified it saying “up-to-date”. My bad.

Much appreciated though.

Oh, and that Pats one from before, man, that is detailed.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 3:34 PM CST up reply actions  

we're getting confused over numbers somewhere.

I’m accounting for the signing bonus prorated over the 4 years of the extension. THe extension is 4 years, 72 million, starting in 2011. Thats 18 mil per

http://blogs.payscale.com/salary_report_kris_cowan/2010/09/nfl-player-salaries-tom-brady.html

Is this legit? I know nfl numbers can be confusing so its possible I’ve been looking at a wrong link

by foyesboys on Dec 8, 2010 1:31 AM CST up reply actions  

so it sounds like

Brady is going to be the highest paid player in the nfl (with favre almost assuredly retiring)

by foyesboys on Dec 8, 2010 1:32 AM CST up reply actions  

Till the next one comes along

   ;

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 10:03 AM CST up reply actions  

not so sure there will be a "next one"

Brady and Manning are two HOF qbs. I guess its possible – the Giants gave Eli an insane deal.

by foyesboys on Dec 10, 2010 1:23 AM CST up reply actions  

There is always a next one...

unless the Apocalypse hits before then. ;)

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 10, 2010 7:13 AM CST up reply actions  

Reply to your two above comments

It was an extension as he was still under contract. That is what extension means.

Actual contract is 5yrs duration.

As for your “Is it legit?”, all I can say is:
1. The briefness appears correct with respect to its context (ie. 4yr extension).
2. It’s a source which like most others should always be taken with a grain of salt, esp. Internet-related, web logs, -pedia’s and such.

As stated above, extension implies the subject is still under contract, by definition. Otherwise, it’s generally referred to as a new contract rather than an extension.

I understand where your 18 mil calculation comes from now. Thanks. I may be wrong, but I think an NFL signing bonus is paid out in full at the time the contract comes into effect, as per the term used for the bonus. That’s the case with the few contracts I’ve been privy to with such conditions, though they’re non-NFL.

And, yep, numbers can be confusing. No real way to say definitively without access to the contract itself in any situation. Even then, it’s often wrangled over if either party seeks an out or edge.

It appears to me we’re simply speaking in different contexts and saying essentially the same thing with respect to Brady’s contract.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 10:01 AM CST up reply actions  

bearing in mind that this is simply an opinion

thus could be wrong….I do believe that signing Bonuses are paid out over the life of the Contract. Most ly I think this because whenever I hear of a Player getting cut (especially if that player is highly paid) I always here that their signing bonuses get accelerated into that fiscal year and count fully against the cap…. just my opinion though…

"Of all the things I have lost , I miss my mind the most-Mark Twain

"There is a fine line between Genius and Insanity"-Oscar Levant

I’m not taking anything for granted until I’m sure they’re dead. Dallas is like Freddy Krueger
by Tracer Bullet on Nov 14, 2010 5:02 PM EST

That's a fair point …to which I have no rebuttal.
by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 9:55 AM PST

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 8, 2010 10:15 AM CST up reply actions  

You have a valid point there

Could very well be the case with NFL contracts and your reasoning’s sound. I’ve never seen one and that may be the norm without it being explictly stated in the contract.

I stand corrected, reserving the right to change my view in light of any evidence yet to come to light.

Leaving things as they stand, if only from laziness. ;

Thanks. Makes sense to me.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 10:54 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't think that is right

I think they get accelerated for salary cap purposes, but they are paid in full when they are due. It is an accounting trick

Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/

by Seanrude on Dec 8, 2010 11:56 AM CST up reply actions  

Therefore...

contract dependent, unless unstated in which case it would default to an accepted convention or league statute.

I let the accountants do their trickeries and only get into it when it affects the decision.

It’s all yours, gentlemen. Interested bystander for now.

btw, thanks for giving me an out if I ever choose to exercise it, Seanrude. Much appreciated. ;

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 12:30 PM CST up reply actions  

I think he would have probably mentioned D-Ware then :-)

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 6, 2010 6:30 PM CST up reply actions  

This is such a schizophrenic team

No one theory/explanation is going to cover all the issues.

A D that’s good enough to force 4 picks off arguably one of the best QB’s of the modern era. Yet gives up the game-tying drive at the end. Just like they gave up the game winning drive at the end last week.

I wonder how much of the ‘change in playcalling’ is actually due to the change in QB – specifically the QB calls at the LOS. Maybe it’s that Romo checked into passes more often, Kitna does not.

We live life forwards and understand it backwards

by tdships on Dec 6, 2010 12:27 AM CST reply actions  

We have no way of know that is the case, but say it was, JG is more aware of how his offense affects his defense.

I do not think he would let Romo continue to operate in a way that is not in line with their new offensive philosophy.

Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!

by cowboy78 on Dec 6, 2010 12:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Also, why would JG let Kitna make any decisions on each play call, he is an interim HC with a back-up QB.

I doubt Kitna is allowed to divert from what is being called; I doubt it has much to do with Kitna making the decisions on each play.

Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!

by cowboy78 on Dec 6, 2010 12:56 AM CST up reply actions  

I disagree

I think JG probably trusts Kitna, mainly because of his lengthy career, as much as Romo.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 10:19 AM CST up reply actions  

I'll personally take the "shock" and "rallying cry"....

Romo is a very good QB. Not elite. I’ll take him everyday and twice on Sunday’s than Kitna. Kitna has performed admirably. Lets not make this into something it’s not. It’s not about the QB. Period. Romo will step in just fine when he comes back. A new attitude was formed upon the firing of Wade.

Happy Thanksgiving Roy.

by Wayward Irish on Dec 6, 2010 3:19 AM CST reply actions  

Not at all

…but should Romo replace Kitna if the team keeps on winning and scoring in bunches?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 10:28 AM CST up reply actions  

exactly........

why do people have to be so defensive when someone says that Kitna is doing good? I just don’t understand this about people-Enlighten me! Do we agree that Romo could learn a few things from Kitna?

by texstar on Dec 6, 2010 10:36 AM CST up reply actions  

Fan is really a shortening of the word _______________?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 10:40 AM CST up reply actions  

I refer only to...
Romo plays only if Kitna loses the hot hand and the Cowboys are in the playoffs.

Stated in other places. With the associated contrary views.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 6, 2010 11:11 AM CST up reply actions  

the defense had a lot to do with scoring in bunches

bling, you’re implying the team is doing better with Kitna at qb, but he hasn’t been the difference in the team. He certainly hasn’t hurt the team which is good, but he’s definitely not a play maker like Romo.

Garrett is the difference in the team’s recent success. He’s had an impact on all three phases

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 6, 2010 12:59 PM CST up reply actions  

well Terry........

Kitna is not pressing like Romo. In fact, Dungy was saying that is part of the problem with Manning the last few games. He’s pressing-therefore, he’s making more mistakes. Maybe, this team doesn’t need a “play-maker” at QB. They need someone to make smart, consistent decisions quickly and not try to force throws and be a “playmaker” as you like to say. Maybe, you don’t get the wow factor, but you don’t get the interceptions and other turn-overs that can occur with the so called “play-maker”.

by texstar on Dec 6, 2010 1:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Romo wasn't pressing either

When did you see this?? Half of his INTs this year were tipped, I’d say Romo’s decision making for the past year and half has been very good.

FYI, the NFL is qb driven league, unless you have a super elite defense, you need a play making qb or you won’t win it all. Kitna has been doing ok, but we could never win it all with him, not a chance.

Playmakers don’t have to be gun slingers…Brady is a big time play maker but he rarely makes mistakes

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 6, 2010 4:03 PM CST up reply actions  

so what about the Chicago game?

you think he played great? I don’t think so. In fact, he played pretty poorly. As for comparing Kitna to Romo, I’m not even suggesting he’s the better QB, you’re the one that gets his underwear all in a knot if anyone says anything remotely negative. Whether you want to admit it or not, Romo tends to try to force plays sometimes-call it “playmaker” all you want, but he tries to force things sometimes.

There you go with your “FYI, the NFL is qb driven league” garbage again. Sometimes, the offense needs a bus driver and lets the talent around him shine. How many times was Aikman “the Playmaker?” He controlled the offense, He didn’t go out and try to be Favre on every play. He executed the game plan. I would rather have Aikman-the bus driver than Favre-“the playmaker” any day on my team. It may not be flashy but it worked. Now, I’m not saying that Aikman wasn’t a great player, because he was. He made very smart decisions and stuck with the game-plan. He didn’t improvise or try to always make the big play.

You are the same one that said that we would be lucky to win a game with Kitna at QB so I don’t think that your opinion is all that accurate. You said that we could never beat the Giants or the Colts with Romo. To even put Romo in the same breath is well ridiculous.

by texstar on Dec 6, 2010 5:19 PM CST up reply actions  

I would say you should watch the Chicago game again...

He made many very nice passes in that game – passes that only a top 10 qb makes consistently. He fit the ball very well into holes in that zone. He also threw a couple balls that weren’t so accurate. But why the heck does our qb need to be perfect to win a game like that? Romo absolutely did not play poorly that game – he played good, but left some plays out on the field. If I remember right, he had an INT where his timing was bout a quarter second off with Witten.

Maybe its the Bears D?. They made Rodgers and Vick struggle the way they did with Romo.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 7:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Romo played well against the Bears

He wasn’t perfect but what qb other than Brady has been so far this year. Romo was off to his best year until he got hurt.

And the NFL is qb driven league, as Jaws always says, it’s all about the qb in the NFL and he’s absolutely right. If your qb isn’t capable of making plays in this league, you have no chance.

Anyone who knows anything about football will tell you the same thing.

And of course I said those things about Kitna before Garrett was hired, I made those statements on the belief that Wade would be HC until the end of the season. When he was fired, all bets were off. If we still had Wade as HC, yes, we’d be lucky to have another win.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 7, 2010 1:29 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not implying...

The team has done better over the same span of games with Kitna at QB than they did with Romo at QB.

That cannot be argued.

The question is why?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 1:22 PM CST up reply actions  

So obvious

"Gentlemen, it's been a privilege flying with you." - Jim Lovell

by BishopWest on Dec 6, 2010 5:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Garrett ran the offense prior to Kitna and the team played differently with Romo as QB

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 6:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Kitna looked bad under Wade

Kitna only really looked good once Wade was gone. I believe that the overall shift in both team philosophy and preparation has caused everyone to play better, in turn lessening the pressure on individuals. The team realizes that what Garrett is doing works, and that when they execute what Garrett wants them to do, they are successful.

I think that regardless of Kitna’s performance, you have to play Romo when he’s healthy (whenever that is). Kitna is not the future of the team and Romo most likely is, so you have to at least see what Romo and the offense would do under Garrett’s new regime. I’m not one to say that you have to absolutely stick to Romo no matter what if healthy, but I do think it would be foolish to delay his return for the sole sake of Kitna having the “hot hand” in a lost season. You need to see what Romo can do when he comes back so that you can be more prepared for not only this upcoming offseason, but next season as well. If Romo comes in a lights it up, great. No problem. If he sucks and the offense returns to its rough beginnings, well then you at least know there’s a problem and you can plan accordingly. But without playing Romo at all, you have no data to go off of. Hence, it makes no sense to me to not start Romo as soon as he’s 100% ready to go.

by Key19 on Dec 6, 2010 6:47 PM CST up reply actions  

But Kitna, for all intents and purposes, was not under Wade

The offense, and this is well-documented in things other than my post to the same effect,, had so much autonomy under JG that it seems more like an adjustment period than him looking bad “under Wade.”

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 12:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Adjustment period for his leadership to take effect?

I simply won’t chalk up things like McCann getting a 101-yard INT return because Nicks quit on a route or for the first time in his career Felix finally being utilized properly in the passing game and taking a swing pass a long distance(71 yards.) Or Austin taking a reverse 60 yards on a play where 9 times out of 10 Witten would’ve got caught holding……

…..To leadership adjustment period.

Or even that cute 29-yard TD run against the Lions which was a perfect play call. Bono(the other one) had a 76-yard TD run one time against the dumbfounded Cardinals. There wasn’t anything magic about that either.

A couple of things finally happened right for the Cowboys but I don’t believe fantastical things like leadership adjustment period; especially not in a parity-driven NFL where just two weekends ago Ryan Fitzpatrick should’ve stopped the Steelers in OT with a TD bomb.

by MadMick on Dec 7, 2010 1:02 PM CST up reply actions  

No, adjustment period for having to be the starter after not playing for 2 years

Seriously, doesn’t he get some leeway for shaking the rust off?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 1:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Are we talking numbers or leadership?

He was 34-of-49 against the Jags in his first start back after not playing for two years. That doesn’t seem all that rusty to me but the same goofy things that plagued the passing game all season long sunk Kitna in that game. So what’s the reason for that? Lack of trust in Kitna’s leadership caused the ball to still bounce off receivers’ fingers until the arbitrary two-game adjustment period allowed them to trust Kitna and more importantly themselves again. 34-of-49 isn’t rusty by any stretch.

But again the real point to all of this is that the turnovers forced and return TD’s have far more to do with the Cowboys being 3-1 over the last four games than Kitna’s passing numbers or leadership. That can’t be ignored.

The only real tangible difference is how Garrett calls the game since without his object of desire Romo in the line-up he doesn’t seem quite as obsessed with fulfilling his quota of 35 pass attempts before 15 rushing attempts. 22, 24 and 26 pass attempts in three wins. The one game where Kitna attempted 42 passes, of course, was a loss where although he threw for 313 yards threw no TD’s and a pick.

So when this team gets a little too pass happy, it still finds a way to lose no matter who the QB is. Interesting.

by MadMick on Dec 7, 2010 1:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Forgot to finish my stinking though.

The one game where Kitna attempted 42 passes, of course, over that stretch was a loss where although he threw for 313 yards threw no TD’s and a pick the team still found a way to lose.

by MadMick on Dec 7, 2010 2:02 PM CST up reply actions  

You're talking about a game where Dallas was behind beadly and JG was calling pass play after pass play

And the record is one thing, but the thing that is most surprising to me is that offensive productivity (PPG, yardage, etc.) have not dropped off even though the #2 is in there.

Now either Kitna is like Cassell standing in for Tom Brady in an offensive system that can plug in practice squad guys and make them look like all pro’s or something else is going on here.

I find it hard to support an argument that says it is all Garrett because, as I have said, he had the lattitude to do more than any other OC in the league due to the crazy management setup Jerry implemented.

I can’t say it is all just attention to detail, because that suggests Jason did not pay attention to detail while Wade was HC. This would be a point of derision aimed at JG. And BTW, I reject that whole “respect for his HC” thing since I NEVER saw Wade and Jason having that kind of relationship.

You could say the defense is the reason, but they just gave up 28 points to Indy and 30 to New Orleans. Is that so much worse than what Winnie was getting from his D? No, I don’t think so.

Hence, the post.

Discuss.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 3:30 PM CST up reply actions  

I had my say and can just amuse myself, reading, maybe a comment here or there, fun

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 7:12 PM CST up reply actions  

101-yard INT returns.

Qualifies as something else is going on here; turnovers and points scored directly off turnover returns at that. Pretty simple.

You don’t see a team play dead for a guy for two games then suddenly start “playing for him.” Besides Garrett being promoted there was also Jerry’s little talk about heads rolling. Even if it’s coming from Skeletor and even if he’s part of the problem, that had to have a lot of those guys looking in the mirror and be pretty humbling for them.

I’m not knocking Kitna. If he played this well for somebody next season and particular in a dump division like the NFC West, he could lead a team to 9-7 or even 10-6. Nice. Good for him.

This team’s goal is to contend for Super Bowls; not claw to 9-7. If Romo can’t get this team to do the former, then the QB who can isn’t currently on the roster.

by MadMick on Dec 7, 2010 8:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Unless it's the kid McGee, of course.

But who knows if or when he’ll ever get onto the field in real action?

by MadMick on Dec 7, 2010 8:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Skeletor. I gotta rememeber that.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 10:44 PM CST up reply actions  

In 2 out of 3 of Kitna's huge passing days.

If that philosophy doesn’t change when Romo gets back, we’re still talking about a team that likes to get involved in track meets so they better shore up the O-line and keep on forcing turnovers.

Kitna’s leadership or some other journeyman’s leadership qualities isn’t half as important as what Garrett’s offensive philosophy is going to be from game-to-game or how those two key areas of the team are going to be remedied.

If Garrett is going to stay in track meet mode next year with Romo, retooling the secondary probably takes precedence over finding that one nasty mother who will give the front seven some bite.

But in relation to this discussion the bigger point is that old guy leadership qualities at the QB position isn’t the make-or-break factor that is or is going to decide this team being a contender.

by MadMick on Dec 7, 2010 2:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Opening line got ate.

Of course, I meant to say in 2 out of 3 Kitna’s huge passing days, the Cowboys lost.

by MadMick on Dec 7, 2010 2:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Say more about why, Terry

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 1:54 PM CST up reply actions  

I did

Garrett has taken over the team and instilled a work ethic, discipline, accountability and no nonsense culture at Valley Ranch, thats why.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 9, 2010 9:06 AM CST up reply actions  

that would be great if everyting was all neat and tidy

and wrapped in a little bow like you have said. Even Garrett’s best friends, Aikman, seems stunned at what has happened. Truth be told, it’s more than just Garrett. Players have been put on alert that their jobs are on the line, so they have stepped up their performance too. Pasqualini has quit blitzing on every down etc. I’m not diminishing that things have gotten better with Garrett, but he’s not the “Magical Savior” that you want to imply. I love how you get on these bandwagons Terry. Now, Garrett and Romo can do no wrong. It’s actually quite funny

by texstar on Dec 9, 2010 10:36 AM CST up reply actions  

Players have been put on alert

who do you think was responsible for that as well as the defensive changes……all Garrett.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 9, 2010 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

well, not all Garrett........

Jerry keeps saying so as well. He has been more vocal than I have ever heard him saying that Garrett was a part of this team whenever we were stinking up the joint. Jerry, at least publicly, has said that Garrett was part of this. So you can’t put all the blame on the missing guy-Wade. You don’t think that the players are smart enough to know that if Wade is not there to protect them, that they will be the next to go. He said that they were all be evaluated. As much as you want to give all the credit to Garrett, that isn’t so. I’m not saying that I’m impressed with him, but you can’t annoint him as the “Saviour” yet since he was part of the problem before. Besides, you were the same one a year ago that was saying it wasn’t coaching, it was all execution by the players. So which is it because from my vantage point, you are being very contradictory.

by texstar on Dec 9, 2010 4:29 PM CST up reply actions  

where is he saying that?

I’d like to read up on it…

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 9, 2010 5:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 1:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Romo

Romo is way overrated here on this blog, but far less so in the general NFL community. Most people recognize him for what he is: a nice, average quarterback who you can win a Super Bowl with if everything goes your way but not someone who can win it for you.

Here is my bottom line opinion on Romo. He has all the natural ability in the world, but his decision-making is questionable and the speed in which he makes those decisions is slow. The result is that in order to play great, he has to take too much risk. That inevitably leads to awful games as well as wonderful ones. Unfortunately, to win it all teams must string together great performances against very good teams, and it is highly unlikely that Romo will do that given the high level of risk with which he must play to be successful. And as Kitna is now bringing into glaring light, Romo has zero leadership ability. For whatever reason, the players don’t seem to respond to him.

The goal should be to replace Romo. I’m not advocating cutting him – he should be kept on as the starting quarterback until a better option is available. But make no mistake about it – the Dallas Cowboys are at a competitive disadvantage while Tony Romo is the starting quarterback, and finding an elite quarterback must be priority #1 for the organization.

by Cowboy.Louie on Dec 6, 2010 8:14 AM CST reply actions  

Name me Romo's last awful game.

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 6, 2010 8:19 AM CST up reply actions  

Vikings '09?

oh wait that was the o-line… so Buffalo ’09? i think that was the year though it might have been in 08

"Of all the things I have lost , I miss my mind the most-Mark Twain

"There is a fine line between Genius and Insanity"-Oscar Levant

I’m not taking anything for granted until I’m sure they’re dead. Dallas is like Freddy Krueger
by Tracer Bullet on Nov 14, 2010 5:02 PM EST

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 6, 2010 8:23 AM CST up reply actions  

you are really butchering history here...

Buffalo was 2007.

His last really awful game was the Giants early in 2009. Hes gotten a lot better when it comes to turnovers. This year hes taken the blame for a lot of tipped balls.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 1:58 PM CST up reply actions  

like I have said multiple times...

I suffer from CRSS….Can’t Remember Sh!# Syndrome….

"Of all the things I have lost , I miss my mind the most-Mark Twain

"There is a fine line between Genius and Insanity"-Oscar Levant

I’m not taking anything for granted until I’m sure they’re dead. Dallas is like Freddy Krueger
by Tracer Bullet on Nov 14, 2010 5:02 PM EST

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 6, 2010 3:58 PM CST up reply actions  

consider it appropriated for use in my in-person life...

CRSS, love it, beats the hell out of what I’ve been calling this failing memory.
Thanks much.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 6, 2010 4:42 PM CST up reply actions  

that's two....

but who’s counting….

"Of all the things I have lost , I miss my mind the most-Mark Twain

"There is a fine line between Genius and Insanity"-Oscar Levant

I’m not taking anything for granted until I’m sure they’re dead. Dallas is like Freddy Krueger
by Tracer Bullet on Nov 14, 2010 5:02 PM EST

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 7, 2010 2:58 AM CST up reply actions  

You are... ;

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 8:11 AM CST up reply actions  

btw, so am I... ;

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 8:12 AM CST up reply actions  

Cowboy Louie is an staunch Romo hater

Clearly his comment is not surprising and to be expected although utterly wrong and not true.

The NFL community recognizes Romo as one of the best qbs in the game and thats not even debatable.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 6, 2010 9:13 AM CST up reply actions  

Yep

He is. He’s one of the… how do I say this… not smartest posters on the blog.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 9:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Uncool, IF

Everyone is entitled to have their own (even if they are contrasting) opinions without being belittled.

I expect more from you.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 10:39 AM CST up reply actions  

If 95% of the things you say...

are in the same direction and generally off the chart, I’m just going to say it.

Sorry.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions  

Also...

this is the same guy who said he was quitting on the Cowboys a couple of years ago so.. why come back and say stuff if you’ve quit on them?

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 10:53 AM CST up reply actions  

I can totally agree with that.

"Gentlemen, it's been a privilege flying with you." - Jim Lovell

by BishopWest on Dec 6, 2010 11:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Not pointed to any ONE specific person, but

ANY so-called fan who is “in and out” loses credibility with me regardless of their opinion.

"Gentlemen, it's been a privilege flying with you." - Jim Lovell

by BishopWest on Dec 6, 2010 11:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Still...

don’t devalue your own credibility by abusing someone on a blog.

As someone who has shown a propensity for blending stats with his eyeballs (which I admire), I expect you to elevate, rather than “dumb-up” the conversations, BW.

Fair?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 12:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Unless of course he fires one off at you...

then the gloves are off.

;-)

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 12:09 PM CST up reply actions  

yes, that's fair

"Gentlemen, it's been a privilege flying with you." - Jim Lovell

by BishopWest on Dec 6, 2010 12:25 PM CST up reply actions  

But for the sanctity of our mutual respect...

I apologize.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 10:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Thank you kindly, sir

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 6, 2010 11:13 AM CST up reply actions  

You fought for people like him to retain his right to voice an opinion (regardless of merit)

…and for that you have my undying gratitude and respect.

Remember what connects us.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Yep

Sometimes I’m a dick.

I also hate it whenver I see someone mention not wanting to be a fan anymore. If thats the case just don’t be one.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 11:51 AM CST up reply actions  

No worries

I know when to take you with a grain of salt, bro.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Please don't misquote me

I few years back (maybe it was last year; the years seem to run together) I indicated that I was off the Cowboys’ bandwagon. That is very, very different from saying I don’t want to be a fan of the Dallas Cowboys anymore. Those who actually know me would find that idea to be very humorous indeed.

I cannot believe you remembered that, even if you recalled it incorrectly. I can’t remember what someone wrote last week on this blog even though I check it nearly every day. I’m off the bandwagon this year as well. Does that bother you too? If that really bothers you to the point where you “hate it” (your words), then I respectfully submit that you need to find some things in your life with real meaning as opposed to the opinions of people on this blog who you obviously have no respect for and will almost certainly never meet. Maybe then you won’t have to be a self-professed “dick” sometimes.

by Cowboy.Louie on Dec 6, 2010 1:20 PM CST up reply actions  

I think we are past it, Louie

The good news is Dallas is 3-3 over the last 6 games which is a far cry better than how we started.

How much of that is due to Kitna?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 1:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Of course Romo haters will say a lot

The obvious and correct answer is that they now have a HC in charge who changed the culture and accountability within the team. Kitna didn’t have anything to do with that.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 6, 2010 4:08 PM CST up reply actions  

So you give zero credit to Kitna?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 6:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Kitna doesn't deserve zero credit

But Kitna sucked under Wade even more than Romo did. It wasn’t until Wade was fired and Garrett took over that Kitna became the player everyone is talking about today. To say that Kitna is somehow superior to Romo in any way due to his performance over the course of the last four weeks is misguided. Until we actually see Romo perform under the new regime, there is no possible comparison that can be made.

by Key19 on Dec 6, 2010 6:56 PM CST up reply actions  

I give Garrett all the credit

for changing the culture and accountability, I give the players the credit, including Kitna, for responding and believing what Garrett was preaching and executing.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 7, 2010 1:32 PM CST up reply actions  

doctrine I can believe in

"Gentlemen, it's been a privilege flying with you." - Jim Lovell

by BishopWest on Dec 7, 2010 1:33 PM CST up reply actions  

You WANT to believe in

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 1:54 PM CST up reply actions  

I have no good reason NOT to

"Gentlemen, it's been a privilege flying with you." - Jim Lovell

by BishopWest on Dec 7, 2010 2:11 PM CST up reply actions  

But the stats say (empirically) that things have changed

So ,in your view, is the Garrett thing about the honeymoon or something larger ?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 3:32 PM CST up reply actions  

something larger

"Gentlemen, it's been a privilege flying with you." - Jim Lovell

by BishopWest on Dec 7, 2010 5:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Potentially, something...

much larger. In fact, hopefully. ;

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 7:14 PM CST up reply actions  

And yet you normally give coaches little or no credit for the players' ability to execute

…so this seems like a departure?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions  

I attribute change to Garrett.

As well as Kitna has played recently (and he really is) he isn’t doing anything Romo couldn’t and therefore I hesitate to give him very much credit for this sudden change in the level of play for Dallas. Plus, the trajectory of this season clearly changed when Garrett took over, not when Romo got hurt.

With all that being said, I am glad to see we have a quite competent backup for the first time in forever in Dallas.

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 6, 2010 6:41 PM CST up reply actions  

And furthermore, I really like that despite his play recently

that Kitna still realizes he is the backup and that Tony is the man. That is a great teammate and the type of guy you want in your organization.

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 6, 2010 6:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Amen

Questions:

If Romo comes back and the offense regresses, either in terms of points or wins or whatever, what then?

Do you think the offense can significantly improve with Romo coming back?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 6:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Answers:

1. Not enough context there to just make a call. Is Romo inheriting the same team that Kitna currently has? Is the OL still playing well? Does Garrett maintain the run/pass ratio we’ve seen lately or does Romo’s return prompt him to rely on the pass more? We don’t even know how Kitna will play without Dez, who was (until these last two games) probably his favorite target. Is the defense still playing well? Are they generating the same amount of turnovers, or did they regress? All of these factors are critical when trying to compare Romo to Kitna when Romo returns. That said, if the offense objectively gets worse (by whatever objective metric you want to use), I think you really have to evaluate whether Tony is the guy you want to have moving forward. That said, I think we score at least 38 this past week with Romo. When’s the last time he enjoyed a defense that forced 4 INTs and scored on two of them? I would guess never, but I may be wrong. But if Tony returns and the offense declines, you really have to reassess your long-term QB situation.

2. I think it’s tough for the offense to be much better than they are currently. I think Peyton Manning (ok, maybe a bad example due to his recent performances) probably has a hard time generating more points per game for the Cowboys than Jon Kitna has. The offense has been awesome since Garrett took over and there’s not much you can do to improve aside from scoring on literally every possession. The key will be to maintain our offensive proficiency when Romo returns. If things stay relatively stable, then great, and that’s what I expect to happen when Romo does return. No real marked improvement, but no decline either.

by Key19 on Dec 6, 2010 7:05 PM CST up reply actions  

On #1

Do you think Kitna’s differences in play (vs Romo)have had any positive impact at all?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 7:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Obviously, yes...

in part due to circumstance, in part, style.
Am not interrupting yours and Key’s fine debate.
Relishing merely reading it.
Please continue, gentlemen.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 8:31 AM CST up reply actions  

You bear keeping an eye on...

This and other comments have me thinking maybe you’re one of the beer/scotch time guys.

We’re going to disagree on some things as all individuals do, but man, you get the whole context side of analysis.

I might like you.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 8:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Well obviously I would have to see the context of the decline

and evaluate why it was happening (is the O-line regressing, is it really Romo, etc.?). As such, answering the first one is kind of hard, but I will say at this point that I believe Romo to be the superior QB and even if the offense regresses for a game or two under him for whatever reason I think he should still be our starter in 2011.

With regards to your second question, I always think the offense can improve. Romo is more consistent than Kitna and I trust him more to shred defenses with those lethal 20 yard receptions that him and Miles were connecting on early in the year. I also trust him a lot more in any hurry up situations. With that said, Kitna has played very well so I don’t think that Romo coming back would suddenly make us the best offense in the league. I just think he would give us a more lethal passing attack and a slightly more prolific offense (even if only measured in yards).

Ultimately, I see no reason that the changes that Garrett has instilled to help the Kitna-led Cowboys wouldn’t still be there with Romo at the helm. As such, I would expect that we would continue to play very well as a team with Romo as long as the defense continues to force turnovers and the offensive line continues to be more physical in the running game.

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 6, 2010 10:52 PM CST up reply actions  

You get it too, Creasy.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 8:33 AM CST up reply actions  

More points? more yards? both?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 1:39 PM CST up reply actions  

more points

hard to gain more yards than what we were gaining under Romo prior to his injury

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 9, 2010 9:10 AM CST up reply actions  

I find that hard to believe...

but if it performs at the same level, I will be happy.

by foyesboys on Dec 7, 2010 3:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Bravo...

you get what “team” is as much as Kitna, I dare say. And I know neither of you in person. Brav-f’n-O!

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 8:15 AM CST up reply actions  

So because I don't jump on and off the bandwagon...

I have nothing in my life with real meaning?

This is a football blog, when people who say ridiculous things I tend to remember. Certainly people who say them in large quantities.

I guess I didn’t know the difference between being off the “bandwagon” and not being a fan anymore. I think most people describe that the same way.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 2:05 PM CST up reply actions  

I suppose I don't know the difference between...

being on the “bandwagon” or being a fan.

Unless you’re just a bandwagon fan that hops on and off.

And please don’t speak about my life, you don’t know anything about me dude. Trust me I have plenty of things going on with my life right now.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 2:08 PM CST up reply actions  

+1

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 6, 2010 11:13 AM CST up reply actions  

Generalizations are fine, but personal attacks rub me wrong

I think that’s in line with the BTB member guidelines, isn’t it Fernie?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 9, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions  

They are? I suppose that's why you felt the need to include gross

ones in the intro to this post. I think generalizations are as damaging as individual attacks. You grossly exaggerate characteristics and label people unfairly when you generalize about them, no? Ask any bigot (not that I’m calling you one, of course).

by Fernie67 on Dec 9, 2010 12:07 PM CST up reply actions  

It's a fine line

but any and every generalization cannot be considered damaging. The damaging piece is found in any derogatory comments.

But I don’t think those things fall under the category of fighting words.

And gross exaggeration is the heart and soul of my posts, so don’t try any funny stuff.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 9, 2010 1:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Warning

I’m not easy.

However, rumor has it that if you buy Terry enough black and tan’s, he’ll shout obscenities at Tony Romo’s picture in the sports bar.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 9, 2010 5:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh no doubt.

But the best way to expose people’s flawed viewpoints is to generally have them elaborate on what they mean.

For Cowboy.Louie it is easy to throw out the word “awful” but I honestly want to hear what he has to say for that question. The only real recent game that can even come to mind was the Giants game last year and that was over a year ago and was the same game we still put up 35 points (I think).

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 6, 2010 6:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep, another beer/scotch time guy.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 8:35 AM CST up reply actions  

Debatable

Just about anything is debatable Terry so stop acting like you have The Truth on your side. You have an opinion, just like mine.

I’d sure like to know who you consider The NFL Community and when you hear them include Romo in the discussion among the best quarterbacks in the game. I listen and watch quite a bit of national sports media – NFL network, NFL pre-game shows, Mike and Mike in the morning, USA Today sports page, Websites like Pro Football Weekly, etc. And in all my watching/listening/reading, I simply do not hear Romo’s name come up when the discussion turns to the best NFL quarterbacks. I hear a lot about the usual cast of characters – Brady, Manning, Brees (hey look…I spelled it correctly!) Rodgers, Rivers, etc. I hear a lot of discussion about what quarterbacks at the next level below need to do join the elite – guys like Ryan, Shaub, Vick, Sanchez….and here is where I occasionally hear Romo’s name thrown into the mix.

Terry, your claim that "The NFL community recognizes Romo as one of the best qbs in the game and thats not even debatable" seems pretty hard to defend. Please try, as I’d be interested in reading your attempt. If its so cut-and dried then you should have no problem coming up with numorous examples.

Time to face reality Terry. Romo is a second-tier quarterback, grouped in with perhaps 5-10 guys who are a step below the elite. From one perspective, the Cowboys are fortunate – at least half the teams in the league have a quarterback who isn’t as good as Romo.

by Cowboy.Louie on Dec 7, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions  

That's an accurate assessment

…but everything could change if he comes back and the offense falters.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 1:50 PM CST up reply actions  

I got news for you, sports fan.

Besides Brady and Rapelassberger, no other QB has WON a Super Bowl in the way you seem to be inferring. Drew Brees? He was absolutely surgical in this past playoffs much like Troy Aikman used to be. However, I wouldn’t say he was ripping teams apart or had to put that team on his back in any one game.

by MadMick on Dec 6, 2010 10:05 AM CST up reply actions  

I'd agree that Romo gets rated more highly by BTB'ers than in the NFL world at large

But isn’t that true of every team’s players?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 10:20 AM CST up reply actions  

Well here's what I would say.

Generally, I feel like fans of teams know their players better than the consensus. Sure, us here in Dallas love Romo a lot, but we were also the first ones to say that Roy Williams the first was playing poor even as he continued to go to pro bowls. For another example, look at the Eagles. There was internal debate there as to how Donovan was declining when most people in the press were maintaining that he was a top QB. My third and last example would be the offensive line of the Cowboys. All the way back to 2007 our line was being lauded as a mauling line and one that was responsible for our offensive resurgence. But as fans of the Cowboys we could see the holes that analysts who only watched a few games were missing. We could more easily see things like that Leonard Davis was struggling with speed guys and that really we struggled with confusing blitz packages.

As fans we watch more than anybody and as much as we all want to be homers the discussion on these boards is generally reflective of what is actually going on. That’s why for good college scouting information and NFL team needs information I go straight to the fans of the teams I am looking at. On their own blogs they are going to generally be more honest and that is where you can find really good information that may or may not go against the lazy general perception of the mainstream media.

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 6, 2010 6:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Excellent point

You’ve moved me.

I do think, however, we tend to favor our players (true of any team’s fans) more so than we deride them.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 7:05 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree with both of you

its somewhere inbetween.

As fans, we know our teams weaknesses more than other teams’. But at the same time, I think we tend to overrate our star players. Most of us tend to get excited a little too easily (I personally got suckered in by Anthony Spencer late last season). I think that may also be what we’re doing with Kitna though.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 7:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Exactly

BTW, where the hell has spencer disappeared to?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 7:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Hes still a really good run defender...

but his pass rush is nowhere to be seen. We really need more consistent pressure.

As good as he is, you don’t draft an olb to defend the run. Its kinda like praising RW for his blocking.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 7:41 PM CST up reply actions  

1st round bust in the making?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Seems more like a "Marcus Spears" in the making..

dependable player, better than many other players who did nothing, but still a disappointment.

by foyesboys on Dec 7, 2010 2:27 AM CST up reply actions  

Greg Ellis too

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 10:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Implying a worth in retention, no?

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 10:36 AM CST up reply actions  

lets not get hasty

Greg Ellis was the pride of those early 2000 teams (if such a thing exists). I think if you put him on a more talented defense, he would be a star. He produced far more than Spencer or Spears have.

by foyesboys on Dec 7, 2010 3:58 PM CST up reply actions  

I think his most productive years were with Ware opposite him, weren't they?

But I agree, he was a more productive bust than Spears or Ellis.

So many people defended Spears when I criticized him. Seems like most of them have changed their tune now.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 4:04 PM CST up reply actions  

my point was that...

Ellis wasn’t a bust. A pro bowl level player is not a bust. Ellis was easily the best player on many of those teams and personally, I’m proud he was a Cowboy – later in his career he got kinda whiny and too worried about money/injuries, but that doesn’t impact my view of his as a player.

by foyesboys on Dec 7, 2010 10:01 PM CST up reply actions  

He didn't live up to his billing, though

He will always be remembered for not being Randy Moss.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 12:53 AM CST up reply actions  

though is that his fault?

Yes we took Ellis with Moss still on the Board…If I am Jerry I would still take Ellis over Randy. Why? Demarcus Ware. Ware and Spencer have both stated How much Ellis helped them out when they both were Rookies….that stuff is priceless…

"Of all the things I have lost , I miss my mind the most-Mark Twain

"There is a fine line between Genius and Insanity"-Oscar Levant

I’m not taking anything for granted until I’m sure they’re dead. Dallas is like Freddy Krueger
by Tracer Bullet on Nov 14, 2010 5:02 PM EST

That's a fair point …to which I have no rebuttal.
by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 9:55 AM PST

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 8, 2010 5:35 AM CST up reply actions  

Flaw there...

is you’re coinciding present and future or, in effect, allowing for precognition on Jerry’s or any selector’s part.

Now, Jerry’s able to foretell the future? I ask you, is there anything this guy isn’t capable of to surprise us.? ;

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 11:01 AM CST up reply actions  

And don't get me wrong...

I liked Ellis as a Cowboy. Even the what-some-call griping towards the end doesn’t bias my contribution-restricted view of him. He was doing business, is all. There’s the sport side and the business side to all major league sports.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 11:04 AM CST up reply actions  

Not me

Moss would have extended Aikman’s career

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 7:39 PM CST up reply actions  

You really think...

drafting Moss would have reduced the number of concussion-inducing hits enough that Jerry would have let the contract extension kick in?

I’ll give it to you the hits may have been reduced or streched out over a marginally longer period of time, but Jerry swallowing a 7yr/70mil contract that late in Aikman’s career? Really?

Understand, I think the world of Troy, as an individual and player and love that he was a Cowboy. I’m not saying this to trash him in any way.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 8:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Indeed

 Jerry has a demonstrated history of giving his aging vets big money, doesn’t he?

And yes, I think having a threat like Moss would have completely changed the offense and forced teams to play cover 2. Blitzing Dallas would likely have led to some crazy wild TD passes. The hits kept coming on Aikman because he had to hold the ball for too long…

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 10:14 PM CST up reply actions  

In response...

See comment titled Sure, Jerry has given out some goofy contracts

Too much for this comment thread.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 9, 2010 10:45 AM CST up reply actions  

Ummm...

obviously, different guys, different positions. ;

Yes, I know the way you meant it. Just being smart-ass.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 10:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Oh man, Creasy, you are so bang on the point it's surgical.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 8:39 AM CST up reply actions  

Well said, Creasy.

Everybody WANTS their players to be the best, but all players eventually decline, or reach their potential which fails to meet expectations. Some fans are able to connect the dots a little earlier than others. I’m sure there were some die-hard McNabb fans bitterly defending their “guy” last season. I’m sure they were saying “he’s taken us to how many NFC champship games, Superbowl, yadda yadda.” Those same fans are now no doubt wearing a Vick jersey tonight, with no second thought of McNabb. I see the same happening with our #9.

by 1 proud terp on Dec 12, 2010 6:45 PM CST up reply actions  

If Romo had zero leadership ability and Kitna was just a pure genius...

Then the team wouldn’t have given up when Romo went down in the first place. Kitna should’ve been able to keep them motivated and we should’ve defeated the Giants. But none of that happened, and the team totally quit on Jon Kitna. It wasn’t until the entire culture change of the Garrett promotion that Kitna was any good, and the defense continued to quit on Kitna until said Garrett promotion.

by Key19 on Dec 6, 2010 6:50 PM CST up reply actions  

That made no sense whatsoever

You need to rethink that whole comment and try it again.

:>)

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 6:59 PM CST up reply actions  

How so?

If Kitna’s leadership is as great as you all say, why did the team quit when Romo went out and he came in?

by Key19 on Dec 6, 2010 7:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Because you don't walk into the huddle with leadership cache

You earn it through running up the gut for first downs. You earn it by delivering the ball on a rope to a guy in a tight space. You earn it by coming back to the sideline after a bad possession and picking up your teammates and cheering them on.

You know this. I know you know this.

And nobody is saying anything definitive about leadership, but it’s worthy of a good discussion, ain’t it???

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 7:12 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think you and Key are quite on the same page, close but not quite

One appears to be talking “impact of leadership”, the other “how it’s earned”.
And, leadership’s always worthy of discussion, as if you hadn’t perceived my view on that before. ;

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 8:51 AM CST up reply actions  

How do you KNOW?

…and what litmus test will prove that theory out when he returns?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 1:50 PM CST up reply actions  

because the team fell apart like a deck of cards

after his injury and actually played much worse when Kitna took over. It wasn’t until Garrett became HC that the team started playing better.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 9, 2010 9:13 AM CST up reply actions  

You get it.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 8:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Blings, your articles are as much a given as...

“cover Rice”, “key on Emmitt”, “double Irvin”, “bet on Staubach end-of-the-game” and “Landry’s a legend”.

Always entertaining, interesting, thought-provoking, insightful and controversial. As the always-entertaining associated comment threads prove. You rile the masses. Stir-the-pot.

Sh!t-disturber or sage. I think both.

My looking forward to them’s a given. As the rec’s becoming. If I fail to comment, consider the admiration of your works and, even in times of contrary views, my thanks for them a given.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 6, 2010 8:24 AM CST reply actions  

Appreciate the kind words, tan

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 10:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, whatever, my words're...

drivel, we both know that.

First, a little treatise on a topic that has been on my mind for some time…
Now that you’ve got that out of your system, back to work so I’ve got some that aren’t. Kidding. And not. Still one I’m looking forward to.

Cripes, 333+ comments < 24hrs, you are a sh!t-disturber. ;

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 6, 2010 4:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Bring on the debate
without being dismissive or malicious in our discourse

Looking forward to this.

flatter (that sounds wrong, doesn’t it?)
Nope, thanks for the word to replace on-a-line.
Maybe Kitna is just the best #2 in the NFL?
Name one better. Like you said, he could be starting for some teams. Vet, hampered in past by being on sub-par teams. As per his recent comment, he looked around the huddle and saw the most talented team-mates he’s ever huddled with.
Quinthy Carther (see what I did there?)
Torn between amusing and beneath you. I know where it came from and how it’s meant, so you get a pass.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 6, 2010 8:48 AM CST reply actions  

sloppy uninformed analysis.

I wrote this before Kitna played a game.

Here’s my first claim. Dallas isn’t going to miss Romo but not as much as you think. Why? Because no single player can control the fate of a team.
So what can we expect from Kitna? Well he’s a poor man’s Romo. Less accurate passer (career completion % of 60% vs 64% for Romo) and he makes more bad decisions (career interception rate of 3.6% vs 3.0% for Romo). However, I don’t expect those to be fatal flaws. To put it in perspective, the difference between a 3% interception rate and a 3.6% interception rate is 7 picks instead of 6 picks over 6 games.

If Dallas slips to 10th in overall pass efficiency and the the penalties and special teams are fixed that’s still good enough to be a 0.500 team in the NFL if the defensive pass efficiency stays where it has been.
I think this is absolutely right. And Dallas has already experienced a lot of bad luck. So if the defense plays at an average level and Kitna produces at say half the EPA of Romo, Dallas could very well end up with a better record under Kitna than it did under Romo.

And you know what that will mean? Endless stories questioning Romo’s leadership. I can already guess the headlines. Dallas was 3-3 with Kitna and 1-4 with Romo. Romo doesn’t play dominoes with the OL. Etc. Etc.

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Dec 6, 2010 8:53 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

you are understating the qb change...

First Kitna is 38 and hadn’t played real football in 2 years. Using his career stats would be crazy. You could state that Brad Johnson would’ve been a decent sub with his career stats. Or Keith Brooking would be a pro bowler….

He has not played like a “Poor Man’s Romo”. Hes been pretty much on par with Romo the last 4 games imo. Also, Kitna’s career interception rate is bad – because hes thrown many ill advised passes. Romo has drastically cut down on the bad decisions since the start of 2009. Before Kitna game in, I would’ve guessed turnovers would’ve doubled, or stayed the same if our wrs stopped dropping balls. I think anyone in their right mind should be SHOCKED that Kitna is playing this well.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 2:07 PM CST up reply actions  

football outsiders

Ned Macey: Thought for the day. Having watched Drew Stanton play competently and Kitna move to 3-1 (sic 3-3), I think we need to push the fact that quarterbacks are actually overrated in the game now. Obviously, a Kurt Warner to Derek Anderson/Max Hall is a disaster, and obviously QB is the most important position. Still, the other ten people matter. My sense is with the increased throwing in college, there are now more competent quarterbacks than there used to be. McNabb, Vick, and Kolb all can succeed with the Eagles. Stafford and Hill are the same for Detroit. Aaron Rodgers can replace Brett Favre with no dropoff. Philip Rivers can replace Drew Brees with no problem Matt Cassel can be good one year, terrible the next, and then good. That’s all a bit disjointed, but it is increasingly apparent to me that a quarterback is often only as good as his team/scheme.

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Dec 6, 2010 2:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Thats a mess of a statement.

He says that Rodgers can replace Favre, Rivers can replace Brees…they are first round picks! If those guys got hurt, do you think GB or SD would have any chance of making the playoffs?

Michael Vick is having a career year. He looks far more patient in the pocket than hes ever been. Hes far more accurate. Outside of the Bears game, hes been a top qb in the game. The Eagles are (imo) a better offense than they were the last couple years because of Vick. I think they could win the superbowl this year, and the difference will be the qb.

The other 10 people do matter, and Dallas is a weird situation. We went from everyone making mistakes offensively to nobody making mistakes (aside from Columbo and Davis of course…and Gurode…what a mess). So it is hard to put your finger on in that regard.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 2:39 PM CST up reply actions  

He has not played like a "Poor Man’s Romo". Hes been pretty much on par with Romo the last 4 games imo

Career completion : Romo 64.1 / Kitna 60.1%
2010: Romo 69.5% / Kitna 65.5%

identical 4% difference

Career int rate: Romo 3% / Kitna 3.7%
2010: Romo 3.3% / Kitna 3.5%

Kitna’s YPA is way up … but that’s all attributable to the NYG game.

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Dec 6, 2010 2:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Kitna's last 4 games.

79-114 for 69%

int rate:1.75% (I think this is on par with the “changed Romo”, accounting for ridiculously bad luck). This is good for Kitna, but I guess you can attribute it to sample size. Still, hes not making dumb throws.

You are right about Kitna’s YPA. This is actually surprising to me. I spent a ton of time a while back saying I thought Romo doesn’t throw deep enough. But Kitna is suceeding despite it. So that theory has lost some steam

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 2:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Kitna has squat to do with the team suddenly getting all these turnovers.

The whole team was still playing dead until the actual switch at the top was made. Losing by a combined score of 80-24, 2 TD, 6 INT; those were the immediate dividends of the switch to Kitna through two games.

Also the team almost found a way to lose the game yesterday in the same way they were losing them early on in the year. So unless Kitna used Jedi mind tricks to get the Colts defender to commit the penalty on that field goal attempt, I’d say they finally got a few breaks back that went the opposite way early on; with the idiot celebration penalties and whatnot.

by MadMick on Dec 6, 2010 10:12 AM CST reply actions  

Interesting

Dallas got early turnovers against the Giants and still saw that game slip away (mainly because of red zone issues after the turnovers). To say this resurgence on offense has nothing to do with Kitna (and whatever it is you think he brings to the table), is to deride his talents in a way you seem not to be doing with Romo.

Why is that?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 10:27 AM CST up reply actions  

Kitna's played well, no doubt.

I don’t think you could ask for anything more from your back-up and the only real bad outing he had was against the Jags.

But the real tangible change in this team occurred when JG was handed the reins. He’s the guy that affected the culture change as far as leadership goes.

How much of a resurgence has the offense really experienced? Take away all the points scored off picks and punt returns all throughout the year and the offense is still scoring at basically the same rate. Around 19 PPG with Romo versus 22 PPG with Kitna. Besides that their numbers are virtually identical in the same amount of games played this season.

I counted three big pass plays they just missed yesterday; two because Miles Austin misjudged the ball in the air and another where Kitna missed Dez so to my eyes the offense still isn’t performing at near the optimum level it could be.

I’m actually not deriding Kitna’s talents as much as I’m refusing to acknowledge celestial “qualities” such as leadership being that big a deal when Kitna’s getting the benefit of practical things such as a defense that actually causes turnovers and other wacky things going right like 60-yard touchdowns off reverses.

by MadMick on Dec 6, 2010 11:06 AM CST up reply actions  

That's generally fair

…but to dismiss the change in leadership at the QB position and put it all on the change in “leadership” emanating from the point when “JG was handed the reins” seems like it’s a bit contradictory.

See my point?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:41 AM CST up reply actions  

It depends on "what allowing for Kitna's adjustment period" actually amounts to.

I don’t allow for it to ignore 18 and 38-point losses in his first two starts when the team was still very dead and totally unresponsive to the concept of rallying around the wily veteran backup.

I’m not saying the switch to Kitna hasn’t had its benefits. Under Romo, whenever things have been going bad, this team has had the feel of a complacent even jittery squad that’s been too unnerved by the weight of their own expectations to ever live up to said expectations. And unfortunately Romo is the face of that. With the old dude at the reins, nobody is relying on Romo to save the day, or even worse secretly afraid deep down inside that they’ll do something to help Romo blow it.

But even if that’s the stage where Romo is at in his Cowboys career, they better have more options lined up than a 38-year old journeyman or they’ll still be a marginal 9-7 team fighting for scraps instead of a legit Super Bowl contender. Unless you have that much faith in Mallet and his colossal arm because Locker certainly isn’t going to be ready to even see the field until year three.

by MadMick on Dec 6, 2010 12:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I like Locker's head and Mallett's size

…and I agree that Locker needs time to hold a clipboard like Rodgers did.

Doesn’t that fit well with the sunset timeline for Romo?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 12:05 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm still thrown off by whether they could make all those QB salaries fit.

Although that scenario works for me. For the record, I was all for drafting Luck when the Cowboys were still playing dead real well.

As for Mallet, he certainly looks the part of the next Ryan/Flacco big tall NFL-ready product at QB who can step right in and give you a shot to win. On the other hand, what if he turned out to be a big stiff at the next level who’s too in love with his own arm strength to ever protect the football and ends up being a turnover machine? But I guess that’s what coaching is for.

by MadMick on Dec 6, 2010 12:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Romo started out as a turnover machine

Seems like all rookies do.

How quickly we forget…

:-)

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 1:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Just hope Mallet doesn't have that same affinity.

For the finest Little Rock rock that another former Razorback QB has. Don’t anybody take that too seriously, by the way.

Somebody’s got to be a bust. Mallet might be every bit as good as Ryan from the jump or he might be the next Mark McGwire’s 6’10" little brother.

by MadMick on Dec 6, 2010 1:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I have watched every game Mallet has played this year...

And I just am not buying into him.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 2:11 PM CST up reply actions  

so what's your take on Cam Newton?

I saw him playing Sat. for the first time and he was pretty impressive.

by texstar on Dec 6, 2010 2:48 PM CST up reply actions  

another Vince Young

tremendous college qb, will be an average to poor NFL qb at best. Should probably convert to another position in the NFL

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 6, 2010 4:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Except that they don't look anything alike.

As a passer or as a runner.

I’m a VY fan and I can say that Cam Newton is better. He has a much better motion and has a cannon for an arm.

So basiclly because he’s a big scrambling QB that is black he’s like Vince Young. Why don’t you try actually watching college football that is out of the state of PA.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

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by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 4:14 PM CST up reply actions  

He needs a lot of work to play QB in the pros.

Most every QB coming out needs a lot of work. He may last till the 10th – 20th pick in the 1st, if so maybe the team that drafts him maybe will bring him along slow. If he gets thrown to the wolves from the start,I think it hurt his chances of being successful in the pros.

Lock n Load

by DIRE WOLF on Dec 6, 2010 4:25 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree with that...

but he’s just a different player than VY, and once again I’m a VY fan.

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by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 6:05 PM CST up reply actions  

well Chizuk........

is saying that he’s the best QB he’s ever been around. He has said that most of the time a college QB is either great at running or throwing but this guy is great at both. I like Chizuk a lot so I tend to respect his opinion. As you know, he was with the Longhorns when VY was here.

by texstar on Dec 6, 2010 5:23 PM CST up reply actions  

He had some work...

throwing but his motion is better than Youngs or Tebows and he’s pretty precise.

He isn’t Matt Ryan but he’s such a freak that its worth a shot on him.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

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by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 6:06 PM CST up reply actions  

yea I get a different impression from Cam Newton

the biggest thing for me though is maturity. It imo is vince young’s biggest problem. From what I’ve seen of Newton, its not a problem for him.

Hes definitely a better passer than vince young was in college.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 7:14 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not the first person who has made that comparision

and odds are I watch as much college football as you do if not more.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 7, 2010 1:35 PM CST up reply actions  

How are you basing those odds?

Did Tony Romo come to you in a dream and tell you that?

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

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by Iron Fist on Dec 11, 2010 8:45 AM CST up reply actions  

F me, will you stop making me laugh, IF

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 11, 2010 8:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Tony comes to Terry in dreams

…but Jessica comes to me.

The reactions are similar.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 11, 2010 12:13 PM CST up reply actions  

The slim Jessica for me

And she c-ms WITH me. ;

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 11, 2010 3:00 PM CST up reply actions  

I have to say that I have doubted him all year and would still hesitate to take him as high as others.

With that being said, I think the kid, if given time to grow, can be a solid to good starting NFL QB. He has the tools and is a much better thrower than I think VY ever was. He has a better, cleaner, and quicker release and maybe a stronger arm.

The thing that worries me is him getting in sync with a pro style offense after running the spread so well. To me, he is similar to Tebow in that they both will have huge learning curves but Newton has a much higher ceiling.

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 6, 2010 7:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Head for the game

Today, he lives and dies on athleticism.

Tomorrow, he has to do more to avoid becoming Jamarcus Russell II.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 7:04 PM CST up reply actions  

You have to be a special kind of clown.

To eat yourself out of the league; as a QB. Alright, alright, that wasn’t quite what happened. But when you’re the top pick the very least you can do is take care of your body.

Have there been any red flags that suggest Cam will bloat into a dump truck if left to his devices?

Newton, to me, reminds me of a more athletic Daunte Culpepper. Now obviously he’s not going to be the sleek runner that breaks off really long gains at the next level like Mike Vick because of how huge he is; or even Vince Young who is closer in stature to Randall Cunningham.

But he projects to be a better dual threat than Tebow as both a runner and passer.

by MadMick on Dec 6, 2010 7:28 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not sold on Tebow either

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:18 PM CST up reply actions  

The raiders seem to have a heat seeking missile to help them locate those kinds of busts...

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:40 PM CST up reply actions  

See, I know it's hard for you to imagine, but...

it could be more cluster-fscked than JJ/Cisky. ;

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 9:03 AM CST up reply actions  

One thing's for sure, this guy bears watching.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 9:00 AM CST up reply actions  

I've seen little from Locker....

I don’t understand the love. He has the physical tools, but hes like Andrew Luck minus the brain and feel for the game. and now he has an injury history. I don’t know why that would be better than Romo.

Mallett I guess I would consider, I haven’t seen many of his games.

But neither are worth the first rounder we need to start from scratch with this oline/revamp this DLine whose contracts will pretty much all expire/upgrade this secondary.

Davis and Columbo side by side make up the weakest aspect of this team.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 2:12 PM CST up reply actions  

YES!

Someone is with me on Locker.

I don’t buy this “he has nothing around him” argument either. Robert Griffen has nothing around him and Matt Ryan had nothing around them. Somehow they managed to win the games they were supposed to win.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 2:17 PM CST up reply actions  

The Pac-10 is still a disaster defensively...

Washington should be scoring. He shouldn’t look as bad as he sometimes does back there. They have a couple weapons.

Injuries have taken a toll – I went to the game in Tucson this year and he played hurt, but he showed me very little. I honestly don’t remember ever watching Locker that game and being impressed. They took him out for the backup at some point, and Washington seemd to play a little better. I’ve been more impressed with Foles than Locker, although Locker looks like the better pro qb probably.

Meanwhile, I’m not sure Stanford’s receivers outside of Ansah are all that. I guess it helps that their D is good and Harbaugh can keep the playcalling more balanced.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 2:32 PM CST up reply actions  

That's almost exactly how I feel.

Locker has made a name off of beating USC, but he hasn’t shown me anything other than he’s an average QB with tremendous physical tools.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 2:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Let's correct some mistakes IF

You said Ryan had no one around him, but the truth is Gosder Cherilus, his LT got drafted later in the same round as Ryan. His center, Matt Tennant, also got drafted.

Ryan also played on a team with guys like BJ Raji and Ron Brace and DeJuan Tribble on defense.

I ask again, who does Locker have that you’ve heard of?

And I think you were deriding his completion percentage when the truth is that Ryan was a 59.1% passer his senior year.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 6:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Ok....

 Only one and thats Chris Polk, who has a 5.5 average per carry.

And that’s really not that big of a deal me not knowing alot of players on his team, I can probably only name a handful of players on most teams in college football.

Goster Cherilus was also thought of as HUGE reach when he was drafted.

Also when you throw for 653 attempts compared to under 400 attempts… you have a little more of an excuse for a smaller percentage. He had over 60 % each year before that.

Locker is a project, highly athletic, upside is huge, but a big project for a first round draft pick.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 6:44 PM CST up reply actions  

those 2% points YOY told you he was going to be a phenom in the NFL

How about the fact that his % declined as a Senior, when you should be at your best in the FBS?

There was a lot of mixed opinion on Ryan when he was coming out. I think all rookie QB’s are projects. But if they hit, it’s a huge hit…a franchise altering hit.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 7:01 PM CST up reply actions  

I didn't know that he was you going to be anything.

I just know he won games, Locker beats USC and that’s been pretty much it.

I don’t think I’m near the only person that watches football that has serious doubts about Jake Locker.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 7:31 PM CST up reply actions  

You're not, he's as sketchy as anyone

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:36 PM CST up reply actions  

I'll fess up and admit Ryan's 19 picks as a senior.

Gave me major doubts that the Falcons should draft him just because they absolutely needed a potential franchise QB to spearhead a new regime.

That being said there’s still major piles of QB poop to step into like Leinart and Quinn. And then even guys like Vince Young who’s made playoff appearances and had a great W-L record as a starter is such a basketcase that he might as well be a bust who set his franchise back.

We’ll wait and see what Cutler does as he does seem to be on the right track this season but considering what he costs the Bears he better lead them to winning something or at least get them close every other year.

by MadMick on Dec 6, 2010 8:02 PM CST up reply actions  

I wonder if we'd take a guy with 19 INT's in 12 games with a #1 pick?

Here’s the question in a nutshell;

Say we pick at #13 and all the D-linemen we like are off the board, no one wants to trade up and here is who is left:

Castonzo
Sherrod
Julio Jones
Locker
Mallett

Who do you take a flyer on?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Give me Sherrod every day of the week in that situation.

He can play either tackle spot and we would have our bookend tackles for the next five years.

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 6, 2010 11:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Are you totally bought into Free at LT?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:51 PM CST up reply actions  

I think he is a good LT.

However, if we can draft a pure LT than I would jump at that and move Free to RT where he was great last year. That way if one of them were to get hurt we could slide the other to LT and adjust that way.

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 7, 2010 3:42 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't think Free is stout enough to hold up as a RT over a long period

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 10:05 AM CST up reply actions  

Ehhhh I don't really agree.

I kind of think the days of “stout” RTs are going by the wayside. 4-3 ends are getting quicker and generally any 4-3 end over 280 lbs. in college gets switched to a DT in the NFL. There are some exceptions, but I think that the RT spot is more and more changing to look for great pass protectors. As such, I think Free would be a great RT. He gets off the ball quite well and has a good punch at the line for a pretty quick guy.

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 7, 2010 1:40 PM CST up reply actions  

And have you seen him play much?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Unfortunately I have only seen glimpses.

And from what I briefly saw I liked. I will certainly be watching him play the Wolverines in the Gator Bowl though (seeing as I am a huge U of M fan).

Regardless, everything I have read I like and I think he seems to be a little heavier than Costanzo which should help in the run game. I also like that he plays in the SEC where he is playing defenses that are the closest thing to the NFL you can see at the college level.

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 7, 2010 3:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Julio Jones!

probably Sherrod.

Honestly, Mallet or Locker would need to drop to the 2nd round for me to take them. And I still wouldn’t take Locker.

by foyesboys on Dec 7, 2010 2:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Just to be devils advocate...

Those 19 ints came on over 600 pass attempts. That’s more attempts than Peyton Manning has ever had in a NFL career.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

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by Iron Fist on Dec 7, 2010 12:45 PM CST up reply actions  

You mean a single season

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 1:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes of course.

Just saying that 650 attempts is a ton.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 7, 2010 2:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Peyton may exceed that this year

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 3:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep

He might exceed 19 ints this year too. :)

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 7, 2010 3:56 PM CST up reply actions  

He might do it over a 5 week period if he has a bad game this week!!

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 4:07 PM CST up reply actions  

and to think we'd be part of it, part of history

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 7:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Jermaine Kearse is a pretty good player

Polk too. Locker surely has less talent to work with, but that doesn’t excuse him from the accuracy/timing/pocket presence issues I’ve seen.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 7:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Not everyone has a supporting cast that leads to gaudy numbers

…but the good news is that gaudy numbers don’t mean squat. If they did, Texas Tech would be an NFL QB factory and so would Hawaii.

I think you have to watch the games and see how they perform when they go in with far less talent than their opponent. That is generally the case with Locker every week and he has them bowl eligible.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:21 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think Locker has "far less"

less, sure. He doesn’t have a Juron Criner/Owusu/any of Oregon’s talent. But I don’t think Stanford has anything great at WR after Owusu. Kearse is also highly touted, hes probably a top 5 wr in the conference. But the Pac 10 defenses are generally pretty bad. Locker should be doing more…

by foyesboys on Dec 7, 2010 2:32 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm not talking just stats

the games I’ve seen (maybe I’ve just seen the wrong ones), he hasn’t stood out.

by foyesboys on Dec 7, 2010 2:32 AM CST up reply actions  

game slip away (mainly because of red zone issues after the turnovers)

seriously…thats your main reason we lost? not the defense getting plastered and giving up like 5 scores in the span of a quarter? really?

Did you see the goal line plays against Indy? this team still has red zone issues.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 2:09 PM CST up reply actions  

I think if Dallas had gone up 21-0 early instead of by only 13 points, the Giants would have had to be one-dimensional

…that’s not any sort of vindication for the defense, but I think you get my point.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 6:23 PM CST up reply actions  

ok....

1st drive we started at the 6 and scored a td.

2nd drive we started at the 18, got inside the 10, ran on 1st and 2nd leaving us at 3rd and 8, and failed to convert ( I forget the play). Those were our red zone opportunities and we went 1/2.

Giants scored right after that making it 10-7…

those were our red zone posessions. Our next drive started at our 40, went to the Giants 40, then stalled.

4th drive we got a turnover. Romo got hurt on the pass to Austin putting us at 1st and 10 inside the Giants 30. Then we fell apart….

I don’t remember individual plays, but I do remember watching the game that I didn’t think Romo was the reason for any lack of scoring.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010102500/2010/REG7/giants@cowboys/analyze/box-score#analyze-channels:cat-post-playbyplay

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 7:27 PM CST up reply actions  

I remember the play
2nd drive we started at the 18, got inside the 10, ran on 1st and 2nd leaving us at 3rd and 8, and failed to convert ( I forget the play). Those were our red zone opportunities and we went 1/2.

Slant to Austin that went incomplete. I made a point earlier about the notion that Kitna throws a better slant pass than Romo.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:27 PM CST up reply actions  

And your point about the Indy game is right on

Dallas has to get more physical up front. It seems like they are slow firing out of their stance.

BTW, was it Holley that blew the block on McBriar’s punt block?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:39 PM CST up reply actions  

yes..

but it seemed almost like a timing issue – like Holley didn’t hold down his block long enough. His technique was bad, but he could’ve held on.

by foyesboys on Dec 7, 2010 2:33 AM CST up reply actions  

All-in-all, though, best thing to ever come out of "reality-tv"

Despite the miss. And the heartrate he gave me on that dive for a punt.

The block split Holley/Lee and I guess is on Holley since Lee’s up-field dash makes me think it wasn’t in his assignment. Need to have a PVR to look at it again to examine the play, and please, if I’m missing something here, point it out to me.

Either way, blown play, in the past, and the 24-hour rules long over, but I want to get through this sh!t-disturber’s post and comment threads, savour this victory a bit longer (fine me), before getting down to the Eagles.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 9:33 AM CST up reply actions  

He's attributing it to luck and he's got a point there

McCann 2 games, 4 FOUR interceptions of Manning returned for a TD. That’s how many in four ballgames, 3 I think.

I can’t honestly remember we had more then two in any of our last 4 seasons

So we can’t discount luck

by Elks83 on Dec 7, 2010 1:05 AM CST up reply actions  

By the way.

The defense. They’re still getting torched through the air. In fact, through the 2-7 start, they hadn’t allowed a single 300-yard passer (not that the Packers couldn’t have thrown for 4 or 500 if they really wanted to.) The three highest passing totals of the year have been surrendered in 3 of the past 4 games. The sudden magic ingredient? I’ll let you figure that one out.

by MadMick on Dec 6, 2010 10:18 AM CST reply actions  

We're scoring a lot more over this 4-game stretch

Winning shootouts is not what I was hoping for when Winnie got canned.

I’d like to see us stop somebody given the all the #1 picks we have on defense.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 10:35 AM CST up reply actions  

It would be nice

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 6, 2010 11:15 AM CST up reply actions  

Let's see.

The offense has been directly accounted for scoring 24, 27, 28 and 26 while in Romo’s last three outings they scored 27, 27 and 21; 26 PPG vs. 25 PPG. The Cowboys through the added boost of special teams and defensive scores may be scoring a lot more but not necessarily the offense.

Now there’s an interesting topic; that talent-rich defense. Wherever they were all picked in the first round, something’s still missing and it’s apparent this group is never going to be that dominant unit we’d all like them to be. So instead of contemplating over whether or not to take Locker or Mallet I’d be crossing my fingers or praying that they’re in a prime position to draft one of two great corner prospects or a beast like Nick Fairley to finally give this defense the nasty disposition they’ve been lacking for so long. Sadly, any safety taken in the top 15 of this year’s draft is probably too much of a reach since the talent just isn’t at that position this year.

by MadMick on Dec 6, 2010 11:20 AM CST up reply actions  

Can't say as I'd...

dispute your D comments above. They’re much akin to my own vague ones about the draft. It’s just that I’m not in draft-mode and it’s too nebulous for me to consider, as many of you are able to. But I’m in the DL first camp at this point, unless it’s a can’t-pass-up player that helps a problem area. Views are all elsewhere.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 6, 2010 11:35 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm actually a corner first guy.

If even only for the fact that dating back to 2000 only seven* have been selected in the top ten while I’d guess three times as many DL have been selected that high over the same span with half of them being busts; including a couple of wasted picks by the new Browns that stunted that franchise’s rebirth. *(Jammer, Newman, Trufant, Hall, Rogers, Robinson, Haden.)

Now selecting corner that high certainly doesn’t guarantee you a superstar; two of those aforementioned top ten corners were Terence Newman and DeAngelo Hall, both very polarizing players although I’d say the criticism thrown the former’s way is much less deserved than the latter’s. And besides that there’s the fact that Revis was actually picked 14th. On the other hand while none of those guys have turned out to be the second coming Deion none of those players have been the out-and-out busts half these recent highly selected DL have been. At worst, they’ve all been solid starters.

That being said, Fairley would be a hellacious pick no matter what but I think you get more value picking corner prospects like Peterson or Amukamara.

by MadMick on Dec 6, 2010 12:17 PM CST up reply actions  

I've said before...

they lack a nastyness that comes from guys like Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, James Harrison.

Dallas needs a Charles Haley-esque player that incites the kind of passion and physicality to dominate the LOS when needed.

Maybe a change at DC will help them develop the attitude, but they still need a player that epitomizes that style of play.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:43 AM CST up reply actions  

LOL

Fairley is shooting up boards now and is likely in the top 5.

Maybe Dallas has a shot at Dareus but I’m not sold on him yet.

I think Dallas ends up drafting between #11-15. Castonzo, Carimi, Rahim Moore, Locker, Mallett and maybe Robert Quinn would be good choices. But when has Dallas’ draft been anywhere close to someone’s mock?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:52 AM CST up reply actions  

3 years ago was close...

and unfortunatly the Bobby pick a few years ago was dead on. Ugggg.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

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by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 11:53 AM CST up reply actions  

So I have you to blame for that?

…along with Tuna/Ireland.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 12:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I've generally seen Carimi and Moore rated to go at the top of the 2nd.

I think 2nd is where they go safety. The value is too greater at other positions to go with a safety when I don’t think any of this year’s safety crop sticks out as being markedly better than the others.

Unless they get one of the two elite corners(unlikely) conventional wisdom says they take whatever DL slides to them (Fairley probably goes too high; so Jordan?) or slightly reach to take the best tackle prospect on the board even if he rates five slots behind their actual pick. But like you said when has conventional wisdom ever meant squat in Jerryworld?

by MadMick on Dec 6, 2010 12:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Reach for an O-lineman before a D-lineman

This team has too many old guys up front and there is NO WAY Dallas can survive with Colombo at RT next year. His mobility is shot.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 1:27 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm with you there.

Tyron Smith, should he declare, sounds like a real intriguing prospect even if he doesn’t necessarily mesh with the Cowboys OL mold.

by MadMick on Dec 6, 2010 1:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Haha

Does Kyle Kosier really match with the mold?

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

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by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 2:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Well.

He’s not a fat blob of useless mass, bewildered, or rickety. I think you can figure out which label applies to whom. He can stay, I guess. Bigg, get out of town and Gurode, slide over to guard.

by MadMick on Dec 6, 2010 3:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah I knew what you were talking about.

I just think that perhaps Dallas is breaking the mold already with Doug Free

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

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by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 4:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Free got torched a couple times yesterday by Freeney

He needs to work on his footwork for this week’s blitzes off of the edge.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 6:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah...

but his overall play has been good this year. Plus both of the plays that he got torched on were plays that it took way too long to develop.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

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by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 6:45 PM CST up reply actions  

the one play where Freeney didn't spin but elbowed his way to an inside rush was all Free

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 7:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah...

Freeney is going to do that sometimes. I don’t think that’s an overall indictment of his play though.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

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by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 7:33 PM CST up reply actions  

I remember there being a site that OCC put out that grades o-linemen but lost it

Anyone have it handy?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:28 PM CST up reply actions  

FootballOutsiders

here

"Gentlemen, it's been a privilege flying with you." - Jim Lovell

by BishopWest on Dec 7, 2010 12:16 AM CST up reply actions  

This site grades the whole O-line as a unit not as individuals

"Gentlemen, it's been a privilege flying with you." - Jim Lovell

by BishopWest on Dec 7, 2010 12:19 AM CST up reply actions  

ProFootballFocus.com

and they are a pay site now. But if you ask me real nice, I’ll get you the numbers you want.

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 7, 2010 8:07 AM CST up reply actions  

Simply...

how does Free grade out versus his contemporaries?

How many sacks has he given up versus guys like Jason Peters and other notable LT’s in the conference?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 10:08 AM CST up reply actions  

Not big on the whole stats thing...

though I’m always interested in the detail of them and the analysis, esp. by some of the insightful minds around here.

One stat matters. The rest, interesting at best. Love the way they provoke debate.

On this, the sample size would be a concern for me.

But, please, bring it on, OCC.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 10:41 AM CST up reply actions  

Doug Free is a monster

He grades out as the best run blocking left tackle in the NFL with a grade of 9.2.

He’s ranked 14th among LT’s in pass blocking. His 4 sacks allowed are okay, but he’s given up an above average number of QB hits (7). Also, 9 penalties (2 declined) is high among LTs and impacts his overall grade of 5.5.

Overall, Free ranks 9th among LTs with a 5.5 grade. Above him:
1. Jake Long (MIA – 18.0)
2. Joe Thomas (CLE – 11.6)
3. Andrew Whitworth (CIN – 11.5)
4. D’Brickashaw Ferguson (NYJ – 11.4)
5. Jason Peters (PHI – 7.9)
6. Bryant McKinnie(MIN – 6.7)
7. Ryan Clady (DEN – 6.6)
8. Jordan Gross (CAR – 6.3)

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 7, 2010 2:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Awesome.

"Gentlemen, it's been a privilege flying with you." - Jim Lovell

by BishopWest on Dec 7, 2010 2:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Not too shabby for a guy many questioned, eh

Thanks OCC.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 2:45 PM CST up reply actions  

How did he grade out as a RT in his stint last season?

…and wow, Jake Long certainly looks like the real deal, eh?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 3:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Jake Long is not human

He was ranked no. 5 in his rookie season, no. 2 last year and no. 1 this year.

Free graded 5.6 last year at RT, but because of his limited snap count, ranking him doesn’t make sense (but he would have been about 13th).

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 7, 2010 4:35 PM CST up reply actions  

time for that NFL human-only rule

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 7:18 PM CST up reply actions  

so pretty much...

he sounds like our ideal RT for the next 6 years….or an above average LT.

by foyesboys on Dec 7, 2010 4:02 PM CST up reply actions  

As long as we get rid of Colombo, all is well

Colombo grades as the fourth worst tackle in the NFL with -26.0. Two Bears and one Cardinal below him.

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 7, 2010 4:36 PM CST up reply actions  

omg....

and yet its not surprising. Hes been awful. How has davis graded? but guess is not as bad as columbo, somehow. I think we have easily the weakest right side of an offensive line in the league. The O-ring theory becomes a real problem when you have two immobile players side by side.

by foyesboys on Dec 7, 2010 10:04 PM CST up reply actions  

I see an OCC post coming...

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 12:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Absolutely

as soon as I make it back home from snowy Copenhagen.

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 8, 2010 12:59 AM CST up reply actions  

How does Gurode grade out?

How many points do they take away for him snapping the ball whenever and wherever he wants to?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 12:52 AM CST up reply actions  

Pretty good actually

Don’t know how they account for the bungled snaps, but in terms of run and pass blocking, he’s grading out as a top 5 center. I’ll try to have a post or two up soon on this.

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 8, 2010 1:02 AM CST up reply actions  

looking forward to it

"Gentlemen, it's been a privilege flying with you." - Jim Lovell

by BishopWest on Dec 8, 2010 1:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Awesome...should be fun

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 1:07 AM CST up reply actions  

Now that's interesting

Certainly should have an impact on the whole OL fix contemplations going on. Better have.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 11:08 AM CST up reply actions  

Who's a lock to stop Freeney?

Facetious question. Though, if you have an answer, fire away, otherwise ignore.
D@mn, love reading when you and Blings go at it, get into this stuff. It really is a pleasure.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 9:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, think most are pleased, esp. considering the sh!t-storm about this after Flo's release

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 9:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Freeney does that to everybody...

I agree with you, and he may be better suited for RT, but hes held his own this year.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 7:28 PM CST up reply actions  

It just sucks that this team has all these areas of need.

For the “most talented team in the league.” Or else they could just draft Smith in the 1st and that monster out of TCU, Cannon in the 2nd. Then again Cannon might even shoot into the late first.

Of course, unless they have total faith in AOA, they just can’t pass up a good safety prospect in the 2nd.

by MadMick on Dec 6, 2010 3:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Jenkins and Felix...

Everyone thought Spencer was a good fit. And everyone knew we wanted Dez.

We’ve been as predictable as they come early on imo.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 2:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Really?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 6:28 PM CST up reply actions  

maybe its just a matter of there being so many mock drafts out..

that someone has to be right. But I feel like none of our 1st round picks the last 5 yearswere unexpected.

MB and Lee were unexpected, but they were 2nd rounders

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 7:30 PM CST up reply actions  

At some point, somebody is right

…but I didin’t see a mock on BTB last year that showed us taking Dez, did you?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:37 PM CST up reply actions  

we didn't think he would fall that far...

but the media reports were that if he fell to a certain range, Jerry would make the jump.

by foyesboys on Dec 7, 2010 2:34 AM CST up reply actions  

So who was the consensus pick?

Bruce Campbell?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 9, 2010 1:19 PM CST up reply actions  

I really don't remember, but not cambell.

Odrick maybe? There were a bunch of names thrown around I believe. Odrick, McCourtney, a couple others.

by foyesboys on Dec 10, 2010 1:33 AM CST up reply actions  

I think it was Odrick mostly...

but I saw Campell on a few Mocks

Knowledge and Skill overcome Superstition and Luck- Dawn Patrol Motto-Spartan College of Aeronautics and Technology

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 10, 2010 6:07 AM CST up reply actions  

I think Odrick is a good one...liked him all along

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 1:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Mays, Iupati and Pouncey

showed up most often on the mock drafts for the Cowboys. Odrick hardly ever, Campbell occasionally, but only on some doofus mocks that constantly switched him between the Cowboys and the Raiders.

Mays, Iupati and Pouncey – What if?

Profootballfocus ranks Mays one spot below Ball at safety, Iupati is the third ranked left guard in the NFL, Pouncey the 26th ranked Center, 21 spots below Gurode.

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 10, 2010 6:29 PM CST up reply actions  

The fact that Gurode is #5 erodes their credibility

The guy snaps the ball like an epileptic…whenever and wherever he wants to.

Buffalos! Ugh!

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 6:54 PM CST up reply actions  

you got that right..........

the last two games he’s been particularly bad.

by texstar on Dec 10, 2010 8:16 PM CST up reply actions  

He drives me nuts

An OC who can’t make line calls or a shotgun snap?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 8:36 PM CST up reply actions  

but Poucney

Looks really good and hes only a rookie.

by thebigham on Dec 11, 2010 11:07 AM CST up reply actions  

Mays is the bust some of us knew he would be

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 11, 2010 12:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Is Kitna the new Earl Morrall?

Probably not. But yeah he’s playing pretty well, within the system. The team isn’t depending on him to make huge plays, like they surely did with Romo under center.

I tend to believe that the coaching change has made a ton of difference and that we will see Romo mature and grow even more as a QB and leader once he comes back. That said, if there is a solid prospect available in round 3-5 over the next couple of years, I wouldn’t mind burning a draft pick on him.

I also want to say that I am EXTREMELY excited that Choice is finally in the lineup. To be honest, I’d like for him to be the starter and get 20-25 touches a game. And I’m not just saying that because he’s on my fantasy team just in time for the stretch playoff run.

by DavidH22 on Dec 6, 2010 11:06 AM CST reply actions  

AND

players are making plays to help Kitna too.

There were too many times during the regular season that WR’s were dropping balls for Romo and then even Kitna afterwards.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 11:07 AM CST up reply actions  

yeah, I saw 3 plays that Miles shoulda made yesterday......

not trying to dog on him, but if he had stretched out for that first TD throw, he would have caught it. The second one, he didn’t seem to catch the blitz.

by texstar on Dec 6, 2010 11:17 AM CST up reply actions  

I thought that first one was overthrown...

that was just a tad off the mark, Kitna knew it too.

The second time he just lost the ball in the lights.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 11:21 AM CST up reply actions  

maybe, I'm being too harsh.......

but it looked like that if Miles had stretched out for it, (like my favorite new player Dez) he could have caught it.

by texstar on Dec 6, 2010 11:24 AM CST up reply actions  

I wouldn't exactly call it a poor throw.......

it was just ml. off Miles hands. What’s your problem Terry? You hate on Kitna continously. Are you afraid that it takes away from the attention on your boy Romo? That’s ridiculous

by texstar on Dec 6, 2010 5:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Thats a hard throw to make.

It was on Kitna though, he overthrew him just a tad.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 6:07 PM CST up reply actions  

oh I agree........

I just get irritated with Terry when he likes to point out everyone’s shortcomings except for his boy Romo. You do know that I like Romo don’t you?

by texstar on Dec 6, 2010 7:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep

I knew where you were going and I agree. The “well Romo would have thrown that football over those mountains” gets old.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 6, 2010 7:34 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't hate Kitna

I think he’s a decent backup qb but obviously he’s not going to make as many good throws during a game as Romo, thats just silly.

Remember the one he threw right into the turf when Bryant was wide open, Romo doesn’t miss those throws.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 7, 2010 1:39 PM CST up reply actions  

so let me get this right Terry...,,,,,

Kitna threw for over 300 yds. in the Giants game and Saints game. You’re going to tell me that Romo would have thrown better passes than that? Get real dude. You don’t know that cause Romo wasn’t playing. This is exactly why people give you a hard time. Whenever somebody besides Romo does something pretty good, you always have to discredit them by bringing up Romo by saying he would have done better. Since he’s injured and on the bench, we will never know. For heaven’s sake, are you Romo’s dad because you sure sound like a lot of the Dad’s from my son’s high school football team always thinking that their son is better than the next

by texstar on Dec 7, 2010 1:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Only casual fans think Romo always makes that throw to Bryant

Romo is not perfect, even though casual fans argue that he is

Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/

by Seanrude on Dec 7, 2010 3:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Romo also overthrows some balls,

or puts balls in tighter locations (often to his TES) that lead to INTs. He also seems to have more misconnections in terms of receivers going one way, him going another, but maybe I’m imagining that.

by foyesboys on Dec 7, 2010 4:10 PM CST up reply actions  

if thats a poor throw..

then we should start blaming Romo for almost every INT he threw, cause many of them were just inches off of where they needed to be.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 7:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Now we're back to the poor, poor Tony thing

Comical.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 1:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Finally, an answer...

That’s why you do it. Self-amusement. Wasn’t sure if it was toying, masochism or entertainment. Now I know.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 2:52 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah, second looked like lights, maybe a bit of angle of his view thrown in

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 6, 2010 11:41 AM CST up reply actions  

thats my impression as well.

But considering all the drops this year, I’m less willing to excuse “lost the ball in the lights” than if he was having a good year.

I never know how t think about plays like that.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 2:57 PM CST up reply actions  

than if he was having a GREAT* year

even with the drops, hes having a solid one

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 2:57 PM CST up reply actions  

fingertip brusher that I'm not sure even the stretch would let anyone snag into a possession

It would have to have happened to tell. Either way.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 6, 2010 11:39 AM CST up reply actions  

this is why I find it hard to compare the two..

also, you can’t discount the effect it has on a qb/teams mental state when wrs do this. Miles had a bad drop-INT against jacksonville on a really good drive early on, and the team lost some of its mojo.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 2:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Not even close to Earl Morral. He led two teams to the Super Bowl as a backup

Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/

by Seanrude on Dec 6, 2010 11:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Uh huh
And I’m not just saying that because he’s on my fantasy team just in time for the stretch playoff run.

:-)

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:44 AM CST up reply actions  

The offense flourished in that first half of the Giants game before Romo went down.

Playcalling was poor in general before Garrett got motivated to take the helm as head coach, and you have to consider injuries (Alex Barron and Montrae Holland, anyone?) along the offensive line.

And don’t forget how the offense sputtered with the Jags and Packers with Kitna. I totally respect Kitna and love watching him play, but this is all a tad overblown. Romo was far from the only common thread as far as the offensive woes went.

by Admiral Dallas on Dec 6, 2010 11:26 AM CST reply actions  

Hard to be your best when your called in at a momen't notice to be THE MAN

To his credit, Kitna hasn’t taken long to do everything that’s been asked of him and more.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:46 AM CST up reply actions  

well, he actually played pretty well against the Jags.......

his receivers kept dropping balls or letting them bounce off of them into interceptions.

by texstar on Dec 6, 2010 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Excellent point

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 12:10 PM CST up reply actions  

If Romo was throwing those same passes.

They would’ve been categorized or “interpreted” even as being off-target and not as right on the money as you’d expect an elite QB to be able to throw intermediate passes. At any rate, none of those picked passes against the Jags were as clean throws as the pick Romo threw against the Bears which Austin had right in his breadbasket only to lose because he got walloped (which in my book is about the same as a fumble) yet it’s all Romo’s fault because the pass was late and not thrown perfectly to not lead Austin into a hit. Subjective; subjective; subjective.

by MadMick on Dec 6, 2010 1:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Meh.

You know what? After taking another look those were some pretty goofy efforts by the guys Kitna was throwing to but I still believe Romo would get raked over the coals for those same throws being high or late.

by MadMick on Dec 6, 2010 1:14 PM CST up reply actions  

well......

one thing you have to consider (1) nobody expected much of Kitna because he was a backup that hadn’t played in over 2 years-however, you expect your starting QB to make good on spot throws. (2) you expect your other players to pick up the back-up QB because he hasn’t played in a while.

by texstar on Dec 6, 2010 1:21 PM CST up reply actions  

And...

dude is 38!!!!

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 1:29 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree Mick

Romo gets beat up for tipped balls too often.

I am always on him about knowing when to take a sack or, better yet, throwing a ball away. He has imporved so much in that regard. I’m proud of him for working hard on it.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 1:29 PM CST up reply actions  

The sarcasm cuts deep.

So very deep. It would do Romo well to just take off from time to time like Kitna does instead of standing back there all fidgety.

But whether it’s Kitna or Romo at the helm nearly 400 passing with only 17 measly points to show for it isn’t a great performance by anybody whether it’s the QB or the offense as a whole.

by MadMick on Dec 6, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions  

agreed..

I think it makes defenses much less comfortable when a qb can just take off.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 2:23 PM CST up reply actions  

So appropriate to respond to this post on the day I learn Dandy Don has passed

Expectations of this fan base are relentless. They are what drove Meredith from the game at the young sports age of 31.

They are what had fans screaming for Randall Cunningham over Troy Aikman late in Troy’s career. You know, Randall Cunningham the Vegas-based granite counter top installer.

In Meredith’s case – taking a team to a championship game, twice – wasn’t enough. In Troy’s case, actually winning 3 championships wasn’t enough. Because with the Dallas Cowboys, it’s always what are you doing for me now? And right now, Tony Romo isn’t playing – so that means it’s time to raise questions about his leadership? Passion for the game? O boy, as has been said, the poor guy can’t even be hurt in peace. Soon I suppose, we’ll be replacing Dez due to his lack of production the next few weeks.

I may not be a full-blown Romosexual, but I am Romosexual-ish. Why – Because he gives us the best chance to win. If I felt Kitna did, I’d be on that bandwagon immediately. Perhaps the so-called wisdom of my advancing ears allows me to like both and appreciate each ones contribution.

But Dallas Cowboy fans place the bar impossibly high for their QB’s which means only 2 merit worthiness in the 50 year history of the team – and one of those we tried to replace with a journeyman well-past-his-prime bricklayer.

We live life forwards and understand it backwards

by tdships on Dec 6, 2010 11:36 AM CST reply actions  

so true tdships

though it does suck that Meredith Died…he was before my time but still he was a Cowboy thus I respect him for that

"Of all the things I have lost , I miss my mind the most-Mark Twain

"There is a fine line between Genius and Insanity"-Oscar Levant

I’m not taking anything for granted until I’m sure they’re dead. Dallas is like Freddy Krueger
by Tracer Bullet on Nov 14, 2010 5:02 PM EST

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 6, 2010 11:41 AM CST up reply actions  

Nooooooo...

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 6, 2010 11:42 AM CST up reply actions  

Sorry about that...

Read your comment head and the herat just went outta me. I can’t believe I’m typing this now as I do. Maybe I’ll be able to say something more another time, but man,…

Don, Mr. Meredith, thanks for the memories.

I’m stunned.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 6, 2010 11:47 AM CST up reply actions  

stunned?

He was 72 what do you expect

He was a Cowboy Legend and will always be remembered

by thebigham on Dec 6, 2010 11:49 AM CST up reply actions  

you forget that Landry and Meredith were complete opposites

i would say that Landry had more to do with Meredith’s retirement than the fans….

go Kitna!

by McLovin9 on Dec 6, 2010 12:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Last season after the 1st NYG game to open Cowboy stadium

Someone writing(Galloway?) about Romo’s horrific performance a story of Meredith coming out of a particularly brutal film session with Landry, that had Dandy Don muttering, ‘I will NOT thrown late down the middle.’ Over and over. Like a punished child. Classic.

Thanks Dandy Don, for starting the Dallas Cowboys on their path to greatness. Ask Coach Landry to allow Jason Garrett to keep channeling him.

We live life forwards and understand it backwards

by tdships on Dec 6, 2010 12:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Got to listen to Galloway today,

I’m sure he will have some good stories about Dandy Don. Galloway has always said Dandy Don was the best QB to ever play in Dallas.

Lock n Load

by DIRE WOLF on Dec 6, 2010 12:39 PM CST up reply actions  

One more thing that is helping Kitna...

The Dez! His coming out party has helped open up others and his amazing grabs have bailed out a few tough throws. I like Kitna and think his team command is something Romo could learn from but not ready to trade out just yet…

by shaneshot on Dec 6, 2010 11:58 AM CST reply actions  

So without Dez, do you expect the offense to taper off now?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 12:03 PM CST up reply actions  

you're not asking me......

but I’ll give my opinion-haha!! I say no because we still were effective once Dez went out. Witten was solid yesterday, as well as Roy and Miles.

by texstar on Dec 6, 2010 12:09 PM CST up reply actions  

With Dez its pick your poison

Without Dez you focus on Austin and Witten and dare Roy Willy to beat you.

Even with that gameplan Austin is too good to let that happen and always comes through with a huge play when given the chance.

I say maybe a little but not much

by thebigham on Dec 6, 2010 12:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Well...yes and no

Dez out takes a huge talent off of the table for us and one less for the defense to have to worry about so in that aspect, yes. The flip side is argued by yourself in the original post. Sometimes it can have a rally affect and so no. I should be a politician huh?

by shaneshot on Dec 6, 2010 12:23 PM CST up reply actions  

You'd do well...

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 1:31 PM CST up reply actions  

People that want Romo gone or think he's not a good QB

are stupid or don’t know sh!t about football or both. He’s a top 8 QB in the league at least. When he went down he was the top rated QB in the NFC on a team that was mailing it in. The reason this team turned it around is Jerry fired Wade and told the players they were playing for their job. Garrett is doing a great job and Kitna is doing a good job driving the bus, but Romo is the man that will take us to the promise land, if anyone does.

Lock n Load

by DIRE WOLF on Dec 6, 2010 12:15 PM CST reply actions  

yay

I still want to see Romo on Xmas

by thebigham on Dec 6, 2010 12:16 PM CST up reply actions  

you going to AZ?

I really wanted to go. But…I’m a poor grad student. And I haven’t seen my family on the East Coast in about a year.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 2:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Really since Romo never had the oppurtunity to get under center when Garrett was head coach you need to look at how he played when Wade was the coach
7 TD’s and only 2 Interceptions for Jon since JG took the helm.

So what you purposely failed to mention is that under Wade he had 4 tds and 6 ints. Romo was doing a whole lot better than that under Wade. Since this would be the only way to compare them under the same regime, but lets look further into the analysis…..

Romo started six games under a regime you already have admitted was worse yet he had fewer picks in the same 6 games started (7) and the same amount of touchdowns (11) with a qb rating of 94.9 under a Phillips team without the turnovers and better field position.

Kitna however.. the same amount of games started….(8 ints) and (11 tds) with a qb rating of 89.5 on the winning Garett team.

All I see from this is that Romo was able to put up better numbers without the turnovers and overall improved team play. I am looking objectively and it seems like Romo did better with less of a team.

by rioplayer7 on Dec 6, 2010 12:25 PM CST reply actions  

Wouldn't you expect that from the guy who gets all the 1st team reps?

It took Kitna just 2 games to settle in and develop chemistry with all of his targets, most of which he never gets to play with during the week.

I don’t think you’re giving Kitna nearly enough credit here.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 1:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Among other things I find interesting about Kitna

is that he is willing and able to run the ball when needed. He’s rushed for 102 yards so far, and aside from his 29-yard TD scamper, there have been numerous other times when he’s tucked the ball down and ran into the teeth of the defense.

This is just an observation. But I’ve always wanted Romo to use his superior scrambling skills to become another running threat. His career high for rushing is 129 yards. I know there is always the fear of injury, but I’m just sayin’…

by DavidH22 on Dec 6, 2010 12:42 PM CST reply actions  

Absolutely

…but Romo running looks acary to me.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 1:34 PM CST up reply actions  

not as scary...

as Eli “unstoppable” Manning

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 2:25 PM CST up reply actions  

but seriously

he looked fine in the vikings game to me. I surely don’t want to see him taking some of the hits Ktina has taken of course, but he knows how to slide.

by foyesboys on Dec 6, 2010 2:28 PM CST up reply actions  

If that little doughy tike tried to take off and run too often.

More collarbones they would be, uh, snappin’. Romo’s ability and urge to extend plays and make great things happen will always be at odds with being more prudent those crucial times where if he had a little better internal clock disaster wouldn’t strike. That’s who he is as a QB.

by MadMick on Dec 6, 2010 1:55 PM CST up reply actions  

You rhyme like a Vanilla Ice!!!

Awesome.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 6:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Over-reaction Monday

Kitna has played well in the last few games BUT

He missed Miles for a TD bomb and missed badly on a wide-open Dez across the middle.

Romo would have been ripped for those misses. But a expectations are lower for a backup.

"Where's Woody? - We need another Darren Woodson

by BoyfromOz on Dec 6, 2010 8:40 PM CST reply actions  

Here's the one thing I agree with you on...
But a expectations are lower for a backup.

Aren’t you at least pleasantly surprised at Kitna’s leadership, mobility and arm strength for a 38-year old has-been?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 6, 2010 11:31 PM CST up reply actions  

no, no and no...

Surprised, no. Pleasantly reaffirmed in hope based on past observation, yes. Most definitely and enthusiastically, yes.

He’s a 38’er that has been one of my highlight memories of this year.
So pleased.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 9:56 AM CST up reply actions  

He didn't show much in preseason

…certainly nothing that made me think he could do what he is doing.

Anybody who watched training camp practices would probably say the same.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 10:10 AM CST up reply actions  

No argument

Was just saying that Kitna’s never bothered me. He seemed to be a skilled guy in the areas you mentioned caught in less-than-favourable circumstances over his career. A right place, right time scenario to put what he had in past years out there higher in the awareness of the vast majority of football fans. Me included. Watched him some, liked some of what I saw, but it was inconsequential. Till Romo went down. Then I recollected the good, what I could of it and held out hope.

Thankfully…, it’s turned out well, exceeded statistical and performance expectations I think anyone could have had. More than I did, at least. Leadership aside, because I’ve seen evidence of it in his past.

I too didn’t expect him to do what he’s doing, stat and performace-wise. Who did? Show me one, one, person that claimed it going into the season as a possibility. I don’t know anyone. Period.

I think we’re on the same page.

btw, hope you don’t mind the sh!t-disturber references sprinkled here and there in this comment nightmare you’ve incited. You really did rile ’em into a frenzy. As per intent. ;

Cripes, looking at 500+ < 48 hrs. My machine can’t take the strain.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 11:07 AM CST up reply actions  

actually, my 18 year old son.........,

went to one of the training day camp practices with some of his buddies-since we live in Austin is was only an hour drive. Anyway, on the day that he happened to go, was the day that Dez hurt his ankle. My son was somewhat surprised that Kitna looked pretty good to him. He had zip on his balls etc. On that particular day, Romo looked okay-not spectacular. Since my son wasn’t exactly a fan of Kitna’s at this point, he was surprised at how accurate his passes were and how crisp they were.

by texstar on Dec 7, 2010 12:42 PM CST up reply actions  

why does being 38 have anything to do with it?

Favre played lights out last season when he was 40, as long as your healthy, you can play that long and be effective.

Gotta to remember, Kitna didn’t start several years in the league and he has less wear and tear on his body than a qb who would have been starting the majority of his career.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 7, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Because the stats say QB's performance drops off at 32 years of age

Where have you been?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

stats lie

Manning, Brady, Warner and many others are proof of that

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 9, 2010 9:16 AM CST up reply actions  

That's 3 out of ____?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 9, 2010 10:46 AM CST up reply actions  

I can name a lot more than three

but I have don’t have the time right now.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 9, 2010 4:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Hey, wait a minute.

Warner’s a stranger case than Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. From 31-35 his career took a nasty nosedive(8-23 as a starter) only to pull off a miraculous Lazarus act two teams later with the lowly Cardinals. So I wouldn’t go using him as a barometer or indicator of good things to come from a more mature and wiser Romo over the next five years. I mean if his career followed the same trajectory as Warner’s I guess you’re predicting after a failed stint with the Raiders, he’ll take the 2017 edition of the Bangles to the Super Bowl. Because that’s the long strange trip it took for Warner to end his career looking like a guy who was HOF-worthy after crashing and burning during his fourth year as a starter at the ripe old age of 31.

by MadMick on Dec 9, 2010 7:22 PM CST up reply actions  

the Key with Warner is this..

I do believe(could be wrong) that Warner had lost Martz, plus most of his Receiving Corps. then He went to the Cards who had these two Awesome WR’s but no QB… So the moral should be that if you have a decent O-line(cuz the Cards O-line was similar to ours in ability) along with A couple of awesome to above average WR’s then As long as the QB has some ability,(Kitna /Warner) they will succeed.

Knowledge and Skill overcome Superstition and Luck- Dawn Patrol Motto-Spartan College of Aeronautics and Technology

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 10, 2010 6:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Actually...

he had a pretty devastating thumb injury that would not allow him to hold the ball the way he was accustomed to. So, lost zip and accuracy as he tried to modify his grip.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 1:44 PM CST up reply actions  

not that I know anything........

but I think they were grooming Bulger as well to take over for Warner. BTW, Bulger is another one of those guys that if in the right situation would be a very capable back-up. He just got beat up with the Rams

by texstar on Dec 10, 2010 2:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Bulger was originally a 6th round pick by the Saints.

Sure Martz saw something in him but nobody was expecting a 31-year old two-time league and Super Bowl MVP would need replacing anytime soon.

by MadMick on Dec 10, 2010 4:14 PM CST up reply actions  

The thing that people forget is that Warner was off to an awfully.

Strange start that season before the thumb injury occurred; 1 TD, 8 INT. It’s anybody’s guess as to how long the slump would’ve lasted without the thumb injury.

by MadMick on Dec 10, 2010 4:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Except that Martz and the receiving corps stayed intact for a long time after that.

And the ’03 edition led by Marc Bulger(57 TD passes 267 YPG in his first 36 starts) finished 2nd in scoring and 12-4.

by MadMick on Dec 10, 2010 4:07 PM CST up reply actions  

That was a potent offense

Torry Holt rocked it.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 5:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Not really...

he made up for it with being sacked a million times and throwing a million times in Mike Martz offenses.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 7, 2010 2:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, didn't he get sacked 50 times one year?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 3:43 PM CST up reply actions  

more

63 in 06 and 51 in 07

That’s not counting the number of hits he probably took

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 7, 2010 3:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Ha!
Gotta to remember, Kitna didn’t start several years in the league and he has less wear and tear on his body than a qb who would have been starting the majority of his career.

Terry?

:-)

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 4:09 PM CST up reply actions  

tsk-tsk, don't be cruel... ;

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 7, 2010 7:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Just the facts, ma'am

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 12:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Never argue facts...

and wasn’t. ;

Just didn’t want you to be harsh in your vain attempt to instill reasoning.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 11:13 AM CST up reply actions  

i forgot about that....

that time off probably helped him in this regard. Those kind of seasons can ruin a qb’s internal clock. Hes looked good to me in that regard.

by foyesboys on Dec 7, 2010 4:13 PM CST up reply actions  

For all that are still reading this...

can we keep reccing things like this and stop reccing things like “ask a insert team fan”.

I hate that really good posts like this will eventually get pushed down to stuff that is really just Q and A sessions.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 8, 2010 12:29 AM CST reply actions  

You know why I like long threads like these?

It’s like walking into a sports bar filled with fans of your team and your team alone. You have the ability to go from table to table and immediately insert yourself into a conversation/debate/heated disagreement about any number of topics.

I left work, went to the gym, came home and found 31 comments on various topics within the thread and enjoyed reading every one of them, although some of you are just totally misguided in your thinking. :-)

This thread has covered Kitna’s leadership, Romo’s arm strength, Garrett’s play calling, O-lineman grades, the running game’s resurgence and my lack of a rebuttal to a comment that made a ton of sense. And that’s just a fraction of the topics taking place concurrently!!!

How can you not love this?!?!?!?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 12:49 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm just glad to be one of the guys at the table

"Gentlemen, it's been a privilege flying with you." - Jim Lovell

by BishopWest on Dec 8, 2010 1:05 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm glad you are too!

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 1:05 AM CST up reply actions  

Hell, I'm just warmed by being in the bar.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 11:15 AM CST up reply actions  

I left work, went to the gym, came home and found 31 comments on various topics within the thread and enjoyed reading every one of them, although some of you are just totally misguided in your thinking. :-)

I left for a business meeting in France on Monday, and when I came back home on Monday night the post already had 400 comments. Makes it kinda hard to follow, and I skipped over a lot of the longer threads.

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 8, 2010 1:05 AM CST up reply actions  

It's blogging at its frenetic best!!!

Show me another SB Nation site that can pull this off.

No team has fans like ours. Any other team site is a pretender to the throne.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 1:07 AM CST up reply actions  

well, Arrowheadpride might be that one other site. They regularly get 2+ million page views per month, where we are very close to the 1 million mark but haven’t quite reched it yet.

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 8, 2010 1:26 AM CST up reply actions  

yeah I remember seeing that

Its insane well isnt KC in two states? Missouri and Kanas?

Kanas side :

It is a suburb of Kansas City, Missouri and is the third largest city in the Kansas City Metropolitan Area, a region of over two million people.

Missouri side :

it was revealed that the US census had underestimated Kansas City’s population, and re-released it to be 475,830,1 with a metro area of over two million

So the only logical answer is half the city is on AP. There really can’t be KC fans anywhere else haha

Oh thanks Wiki

by thebigham on Dec 8, 2010 6:48 AM CST up reply actions  

It's KC...what else do they have?

Besides, Dallas fans spend more money on their team.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 7:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Sure, we're a revenue-generating machine...

among the tops in the entire sports world and there’re more of us than Chiefs fans, but the point still is AP gets twice the hits this site does.

They’re crazy enthusiastic them Chiefs fans. I only know one and indications from first-hand experience are, shall we say, they’re rabid. Old Yeller rabid. ;)

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 8:12 PM CST up reply actions  

That was tongue-in-cheek, tan

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 10:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, KC fans definitely are enthusiastic die-hards, always have been

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 11:24 AM CST up reply actions  

As are other teams to another throne

Think that’d stir them up if it got out?

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 11:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Exactly.

That’s why I hate seeing fanposts that really are just big Q and A sessions getting 8 recs and forcing really good stuff like this eventually from the top.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 8, 2010 9:44 AM CST up reply actions  

And just in case you'd not picked up on it

I love it, have and will, and thank you again for provoking such things.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 11:20 AM CST up reply actions  

One last time...
enjoyed reading every one of them, although some of you are just totally misguided in your thinking.

Get. Out. Of. My. Mind. ;)

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 12:39 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm pretty much at the point...

I need a program to auto-rec this inciter’s posts. ;
Inciter’s nicer than the other word I’ve been using.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 11:18 AM CST up reply actions  

I think rec's are based on agreement more than anything else...and that's why 3 is just fine with me

It’s the price you pay for sparking a potentially divisive conversation.

I prefer the spirited dialogue and sharing of contrasting viewpoints. That’s what makes us better fans in the long run.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 10:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep

I don’t know if it’s always agreement. I’ll rec something if I don’t agree with it but it’s well thought out and has some interesting points that I could see where they are coming from.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 8, 2010 10:52 PM CST up reply actions  

wow

that is insane…..2+million…..that dedicated fans…

"Of all the things I have lost , I miss my mind the most-Mark Twain

"There is a fine line between Genius and Insanity"-Oscar Levant

I’m not taking anything for granted until I’m sure they’re dead. Dallas is like Freddy Krueger
by Tracer Bullet on Nov 14, 2010 5:02 PM EST

That's a fair point …to which I have no rebuttal.
by 5Blings on Dec 7, 2010 9:55 AM PST

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 8, 2010 5:42 AM CST reply actions  

I went over and looked around a bit at AP

The two brothers that started it in 2006 are much more controlling in what they let get posted/commented.

I will say, however, that of the 5 posts that are recommended there, they average 24 rec’s per post and the lowest of the 5 has 17 rec’s.

I’ve always recommended posts that are well-written and give me reason me to stop and think because they’re not regurgitating someone else’s thoughts, numbers or statements.

We have a tremendous group here but I wonder if I have been too conservative in my rec’s?

I agree with Iron Fist in that I don’t generally rec the “ask a ___’s fan” posts because of the short time those posts have relevance.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 10:42 PM CST up reply actions  

i've never seen a problem with romo's arm strength...

not sure about those hard outs, i’ll concede that. but kitna is better at the fade (though all of those have been to dez it seems) and the slant (not romo’s forte for whatever reason). romo has the arm to make all the throws in my opinion. most starting qb’s do. it’s the tiny tiny windows and huge bombs (i haven’t seen kitna do anything romo can’t do in those areas) where monstrous arm strength can help (favre’s glory days).

and i still don’t see how our own fans can call romo a choker, when we ALL know that he had NO shot in the NYG and MIN playoff games, when he consistently gets the team in a chance to win at the end of games, and when we never get blown out with him at the helm except complete o-line collapses (giants and vikings) and 44-6.

by blee on Dec 8, 2010 1:05 PM CST reply actions  

Blee - point is, Troy Aikman could not have won those games

Much less Jon Kitna, but they will always be brought up as an example of TR’s failures. Along with cap-wearing, golf, leadership and passion. With about as much legitimacy.

We live life forwards and understand it backwards

by tdships on Dec 8, 2010 1:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Don't forget Jessica and Cabo

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 7:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Inciter.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2010 8:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Hardly

I just wanted to make sure tdships had an all-encompassing list.

Okay, maybe a lil.

:-)

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 10:23 PM CST up reply actions  

the thing that KILLS me is that brady succumbed to that same d-line

everyone could see that even tom brady, one of the top 2 qb’s of our time, having the best year of his career could not overcome that pass rush.

by blee on Dec 8, 2010 11:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Great post 5Blings!!!

Having the gall to broach this subject amongst the many “Romosexual” zombie followers here takes some gumption. Bravo. I jumped off the Romo-is-God bandwagon earlier this season, and seeing the team play so well in his absence has done nothing but solidify my opinion. I am sick of Romo excuse makers and apologists…he has choked in most of the big situations he’s faced. He doesn’t have it, never will IMO I hope we can get Andrew Luck, or even Cam Newton for that matter. I don’t want to ride the dead-end Romo train for another 2-3 years and get no where.

by 1 proud terp on Dec 8, 2010 9:14 PM CST reply actions  

Yeah....

I don’t know about all of that.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 8, 2010 9:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Hard to say what WILL happen, but...

you have to wonder how many chances he has left to write a happy ending to the Tony Romo story.

I also don’t think he will be remembered fondly if he suffers another injury that causes him to miss significant time. I hate the thought of that because injuries are part of the game, but the legacy left by players in the NFL is based on things that tend to be unusual (The Catch for Montana, The Immaculate Reception, The Header for Eli and Tyree, etc.) and you don’t want the dropped snap to be the most notable thing Romo leaves behind because people forget how good you were during a career and remember the standout instances of heroism and zeroism. Just ask Jackie Smith.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 10:20 PM CST up reply actions  

and thanks 1pt

Posting on BTB is a contact sport and you know I never shy away from contact.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 8, 2010 10:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh, see, and the first thing I see after your cheap shot opening paragraph, is you

not blinking at the terms “‘Romosexual’ zombie followers,” “excuse makers,” and “apologists,” right after I skimmed and saw you rebuking people for using epithets while defending Romo. I’m sorry I bothered to look.

by Fernie67 on Dec 9, 2010 12:57 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't see that comment aimed at anyone in particular

…and it gives color to his opinion.

I’m not here to regulate people and their right to free speech, but I did want to make a point about not making things personal.

Seems like you’re in a rotten mood today, Fernie. Wassup?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 9, 2010 10:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Oh, it's aimed pretty directly. But then, we all have our blindspots, no?

I’m not in a bad mood; just calling it like I see it. Just like you.

Sorry I didn’t read the main post. It’s been more fun reading the responses, now that I peeked.

by Fernie67 on Dec 9, 2010 11:08 AM CST up reply actions  

Too bad, I quoted you in it

For future reference, what’s your maximum paragraph pain threshold? 3?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 9, 2010 11:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Do you walk out on movies a lot?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 9, 2010 1:18 PM CST up reply actions  

I knew it

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 9, 2010 5:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Ugh

Blogging is all about non sequiturs.

Hell, didn’t we just get Terry drunk and throwing darts at pictures of Tony?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 1:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Montecito Tex?

Nah never mind, it couldn’t be him. There are no mentions of Calvados.

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 9, 2010 2:04 AM CST up reply actions  

Sure, Jerry has given out some goofy contracts...

However, the point we’re debating is this:

Moss would have extended Aikman’s career
refer to: http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2010/12/5/1857639/romodus-operandi#53961075

I know I asked you about Jerry letting Aikman’s contract extension kick in as part of the debate and you answered (see above link and associated thread-chain). I had to put response to that here for readability issues.

I granted the possibility of reduced hits within a given time-frame before you brought it up. Eventually, and I’m not talking anything like 5 yrs (maybe 2yrs), they would have been there regardless of the offensive production and all that implies in terms of QB protection and potential longevity. The Cover-2 point you make somewhat escapes me. CB/S’s weren’t the concussion-causers. It was the Arrington’s of the time. The hits would have been there eventually, regardless.

In 2001, Aikman would have been 35, Irvin 35 (had Philly not happened, since we’re debating what-if land, and why not go all-out, maybe Moss here and that play doesn’t happen), Emmitt 32. Both Irvin and Emmitt with value akin to Aikman and relative to the NFL market values at the time among the top earners being in relatively similar contract situations as Troy. I can’t envision securing them, esp. Irvin (or your whole coverage argument goes out the window). Maybe Jerry lets Emmitt go, as happened, and retains Irvin alone, which is the most likely scenario given WR/RB longevity norms. Moss verging on or in contract negotiation scenarios in the same time-frame. Man, that’s asking a lot to accept.

Remember, we’re talking a different time-period here, a different context, not today. Restrict the goofy contract tendency to Aikman’s, even Emmitt’s, era and you’ll see it was less prevalent. Darren Woodson, off the top of my head. Perhaps the beginning of Jerry’s descent to salary madness.

Since then, the tendency’s been more pronounced and not primarily aging vets, but vets he judged for whatever misguided reason to be essential to putting together that elusive SB winner he keeps vainly seeking. Who’s gotten the big-time contract, warranted or not, in our opinion? Aging vet, Owens. Not aging, but unproven value at the time for the deal, Barber. Romo, maybe, jury’s out. Ware, ridiculous, that’s a deal. But this is off-track relative to the point in question here.

Cover-2’s a slippery slope fallacy verging on being red herring. Crazy wild TD play comment, definite red herring. It has nothing to do with the central question here.

So with Aikman’s 10-11 concussions reduced to even 6-7 (being generous here), back problems, declining stats (yes, perhaps somewhat alleviated in what-if land with Moss there), the Triplets in their declining years (thank you for not letting me see reality diminish that shining example of an offensive triumvirate), Jerry and the league nowhere near as experienced in playing with the cap issues as they are now, the whole ball of wax, you’re saying drafting Moss would have extended Aikman’s career? That Jerry would have swallowed the whole thing, bit the bullet on the 7yr/70mil contract and we would have actually seen Aikman play longer? Remember, Aikman’s career being extended requires Jerry anteing up on that contract. It’s not simply Moss being a target for him on the field. That’s not a requirement.

I would have loved it. To see Troy play one more, a single NFL game, esp. if I knew it was the last. With Mike and Randy split out. To drink it in, savour it, it would’ve been great. It would’ve been a dream. But it’s not reality.

You argue the post-32 decline in QB’s, my friend. You know this is now a more QB-friendly game than it was then. You know Jerry’s a misguided, sometimes goofy GM, yet one helluva businessman. I have a difficult time conceiving that you actually believe Jerry would have bit on a contract bordering on today’s QB top contracts back in 2000, even with the unlikely possibility of trading Troy 2-3-4 years down-the-road and everything that brings up, all the attendent issues and circumstances surrounding this what-if scenario we’re debating, and all based on and because of one thing: the Cowboys drafting Moss. It’s beyond me.

But if you say it here, here and now in reply to this, with all this in consideration, that you honestly and completely believe it would have happened (ie. Aikman’s career would have been extended) had the Cowboys drafted Moss, I’ve no choice but to accept it. I’ll shake my head and remain vehemently disbelieving both that it would have panned out that way and that someone as bright as you could believe it would. That it’s that simple, draft Moss and Troy plays more games for us. But I’ll just have to accept that you do believe it.

It’s akin to living in some Troysexual dreamland. (see what I did there? ;)

To quote the dearly departed:

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, We’d all have a Merry Christmas. – Don Meredith
And I’ll wish you all one now. Just please don’t descend into doing it back, if anyone’s tempted to.

btw, this Cowboys sports bar you caused to come to be, the provocation it arose from, the whole thing and all it’s patrons, I love it. It kills my machine, load it, seizure, reboot, redo. But, it’s the finest place I’ve been in. Thanks for doing it, Blings and all of you.

And Blings, in the spirit of a sports-bar debate, one last thing: Buddy, you’re wrong. Just plain wrong. ;)

Whew, done. ;

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 9, 2010 10:33 AM CST reply actions  

I think the idea of having the greatest deep threat in the history of the NFL

…would have caused a change in how defenses played Dallas.

I think the idea of Aikman having to run for his life because nobody was open and then getting leveled by someone like Arrington is less likely when everyone would have had their nuts in their throats worrying about Moss going over the top.

I think what really led to aikman’s rapid decline was the decline in ability of the players surrounding him. I don’t think he could have played until 38, but I think he might have made it 2-3 more productive years,

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 9, 2010 10:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Answer yes or no, please

Jerry would have definitely allowed the 7yr/70mil contract extension (which is a requirement for AIkman’s career to be extended) to come into effect as a result of the Cowboys drafting Randy Moss?

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 9, 2010 11:04 AM CST up reply actions  

Maybe

 The option was there to restructure.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 9, 2010 11:52 AM CST up reply actions  

Maybe is not an option here. Please answer yes or no to the above question.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 9, 2010 11:59 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 9, 2010 1:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Thank you.

Unfathomable. Absolutely unfathomable.

Barkeep, this fine gent and me need a drink. Two Oban’s, straight up, don’t pollute ‘em with ice. Salut. L’chaim.

We good there, fella?

You’re still wrong. ;)

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 9, 2010 1:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Do you think Aikman would have WANTED to play with Moss?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 9, 2010 5:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes

I vaguely recall him saying as much. Probably a comment during a broadcast. I’ve little doubt he would have. Virtually none. I could be wrong, but I don’t think I am. I’m as sure as I can be with evidence right at hand that he would have wanted to play with Moss.

He wanted to play. Even after the Cowboys let him go. Couldn’t work anything out with another team, so he retired. The man was an elite NFL QB with all the competiveness that goes along with getting there and doing what he did with his talents.

It was one of the most melancholy football days in my life going into that day, knowing I was seeing the unravelling progress, even before it was announced. First Mike. Now Troy. It was sorrowful reality and filled with thanks for having let me witness the events they gave me, all of them, that whole team. And I knew one day soon I’d be saying goodbye to the lot of them, Emmitt included.

So, yes. Sorry, man, this little debate’s just brought it all back to me as I went over putting together that bitching long post and everything.

So, we good there, Blings? Because there’s something I’d like to say, but if you’re on the outs over this I wouldn’t want to exacerbate the situation.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 9, 2010 7:21 PM CST up reply actions  

We're always good, tan

I’m very thick skinned.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 1:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Good...

Me too. Thick-skinned. Thick-headed from time to time too.

So you get it that your bias shows, right?

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 10, 2010 3:04 PM CST up reply actions  

ABSOLUTELY!

I don’t write as a dispassionate reporter on the front page of BTB. Truth be told, their bias (pro-Cowboys) is why we come here, right? No, I won’t even attempt to sit on the sideline when it comes to the team whose fortunes I’ve spilled tears (some of joy and some of sadness) over. Nope, not my DNA.

Instead, I’d rather take a position and try to get you to think about it with me. Agree or disagree, but do so passionately and be willing to elaborate on why.

I’d rather ask you a question (even the ones Fernie might consider distasteful or tired) and ask you to articulate why you think the way you do.

I’ve learned a whole lot more from the things I have failed at, the mistakes I made and the people who have disagreed with me than I ever have from my successes, my lucky guesses and the regurgitation of someone else’s numbers, thoughts or opinions.

So, again, sadly, I am eternally and terminally biased.

The good news is that I wouldn’t have it any other way.

GO COWBOYS!!!

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 3:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Sadly for you...

we’re a lot alike. The whole mistakes/failures/disagreement thing you mentioned is the same over here. Probably one of the reasons I keyed on you is because of naturally picking up on what it is I observed you doing here so well. It’s information gathering, learning, getting others to learn from each other, all that. You do a good job of it, as this machine-killing , errr…, epic comment attests to.

So, let me ask you this, save me some time observing, are you more Aikman-biased or Moss-biased? You are on them both but I’ve been wondering who holds the edge.

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 10, 2010 4:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Not sure I understand the question...

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 4:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Try this

You like/liked Aikman. You like Moss. If you had to pick one over the other, leaving aside the different position, the what does my team need at a given point in time, just looking at it as players, which one would you say you are more prone to pick? For your own personal reasons. You know yourself best, better than anyone, so who better to ask, right?

Make sense now?

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 10, 2010 5:17 PM CST up reply actions  

No, I didn't like Moss

…but I think had things worked out a certain way, he might have given Dallas a shot at a couple more blings before he (and Dallas) melted down.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 5:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Fair enough

So you’re saying Troy’s your choice, your preferred player, yes?

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 10, 2010 6:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Si

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 6:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Thank you very much, Blings... ;)

I’m sure I needn’t say anything. ;)
Other than the above thank you.
Pretty sure you get what I’m refering to. ;)
Like I said, you’re bright. ;)

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 10, 2010 7:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Correction
with evidence right at hand

should read:

without evidence right at hand
Typo.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 9, 2010 7:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Aikman was let go one day before contract coming into effect. There was going to be no restructuring.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 9, 2010 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe Jerry tried to Restructure?

and Aikman didn’t go for it? Is that a possibility?

Knowledge and Skill overcome Superstition and Luck- Dawn Patrol Motto-Spartan College of Aeronautics and Technology

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 9, 2010 6:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes, it's a definite possibility...

Virtually a certainty. No deal was reached. At the time, everybody pretty much knew it was the end of something special.

Your question doesn’t detract from the fact that there was going to be no restructuring, for whatever reasons. That last day, going in, it was known that was the case and all we were waiting for was the offical announcement. See reply above to Blings for more of an idea.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 9, 2010 7:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Fan post Tan

See what i did there Big ham?… No seriously that needs to be it own Fanpost. I would love for you to go into further Detail on the Subject….

Knowledge and Skill overcome Superstition and Luck- Dawn Patrol Motto-Spartan College of Aeronautics and Technology

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 9, 2010 10:55 AM CST up reply actions  

I'll take that as a compliment

but I think there’s enough there. Besides, I’m lazy. ;

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 9, 2010 11:06 AM CST up reply actions  

did you check out my new post?

while I don’t like spamming other posts I am not above it to try and get some more comments….

Knowledge and Skill overcome Superstition and Luck- Dawn Patrol Motto-Spartan College of Aeronautics and Technology

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 9, 2010 11:19 AM CST up reply actions  

Epic post/threads

Just had to say it

If at first you don't succeed - blame someone else.

by Tom Ryle on Dec 9, 2010 6:31 PM CST reply actions  

Epic...

You defined it. It is.

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child. - A. Lincoln
Illegitimus non carborundum.

by tanstaafl on Dec 9, 2010 7:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks bro

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 1:47 PM CST up reply actions  

this is the 820th comment on this post

Can it reach 1000? lets do it people!!!!

Knowledge and Skill overcome Superstition and Luck- Dawn Patrol Motto-Spartan College of Aeronautics and Technology

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Dec 10, 2010 6:17 AM CST reply actions  

Nooo...

I’ll never be able to load it. It’s a load/seizure/reboot killer on my machine now, as it is.
Oops, helping screw myself, ain’t I… ;

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 10, 2010 7:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Can we get a BTB ruling?

Is this the most replies to a FanPost ever?

"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Dec 10, 2010 7:55 AM CST up reply actions  

OCC says no, Blings for one has topped it, look at comment numbers in Fanpost list

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 10, 2010 8:04 AM CST up reply actions  

Fanpost list

They rank them by most popular, but that is Rec’s, not replies. Which, by the way, shows you why/how OCC became a front page contributor. Wow

"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Dec 10, 2010 8:27 AM CST up reply actions  

Lead writer I mean…sorry for the accidental demotion while providing praise

"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Dec 10, 2010 3:29 PM CST up reply actions  

ha ha ha

being ‘lead writer’ is overrated anyway. I merely have a few more privileges behind the scenes, like the ability to edit any post on the board, and that’s about it really.

Still waiting for the blog groupies to show up …

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 10, 2010 6:36 PM CST up reply actions  

So that's the reason Blings' aren't full of spelling mistakes...

or are you editting improvement in the content too? ;)

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 10, 2010 6:41 PM CST up reply actions  

No content editing,

but I do insert a page break (the ‘jump’) when the author forgets to do so, I often help out on spelling, correct the formatting where something went awry and always try to correct misspelled player names. All of that of course is contingent on me actually reading the post in question.

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 10, 2010 6:49 PM CST up reply actions  

No wonder mine come out so poorly formatted and rife with spelling errors!

He never reads my stuff.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 6:52 PM CST up reply actions  

What? You think people actually read this nonsense?

Casting a glance at the comment totals and seeing how it kills my machine every time it loads.

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 10, 2010 7:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Yours is fine

the formating on yours is because you copied the post from Word. No biggie.

But without some gentle nudging here and there, this board could quickly go to hell in a handbasket. May I present to you Exhibit A.

Much about that post is baffling yet hilarious – like the idea of ‘descent offensive linemen’ …

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 10, 2010 7:25 PM CST up reply actions  

That's hilarious!

Is there a better way to do this than copying from Word?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 8:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Public service announcement

You can make a perfectly formatted FanPost using Word, no problemo.

● Start by opening Word.
● Write your post completely in Word, making all your formatting adjustments there.
● Highlight and Copy your work.
● Click New FanPost
● Click the “Paste From Word” icon (The ‘W’ icon in the picture below).
● Paste your content into the dialog box (The SN Nation editor automatically removes all the superfluous junk html code that Microsoft loves so much).
● Done

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 11, 2010 1:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Awesome

I will try that next time.

Thanks again bud.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 11, 2010 12:15 PM CST up reply actions  

They deserve "descent" O linemen...

it’ll help them descend into the foul depths from whence they came. And deserve to be.

English, a forgotten language.
Too funny, OCC, too funny and too sad.

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 11, 2010 7:54 AM CST up reply actions  

Jeez, man, write a program to handle the minutae and get to the groupies

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 10, 2010 6:58 PM CST up reply actions  

OCC was a star in the minor leagues for sure.

His stat posts last year were awesome.

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 10, 2010 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Please...

no comments for comments’ sake.

I’m sure the mood will hit me to write something else after the Eagles game.

This game worries me, because Dallas could get whomped on pretty badly against a Philly team that has 3 losses against us to atone for.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 1:50 PM CST up reply actions  

How about Maclin and D-Jack against Campo and our DB's???

This could be a real whupping if we can’t score (TD’s…not FG’s) on them and control the clock.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 3:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm interested to see what they do.

While their speed hurts, most of the time it seems like its bigger WR’s that give Dallas problems.

I don’t see Maclin and Desean jumping in between defenders.

I really think this is going to be a a game of drives, not alot of big plays, WR wise that is.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 10, 2010 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, that's their bread and butter this year

Less reliance on the deep ball, big play and more on a methodical march down the field. McCoy and the inside stuff is more the danger. And the opportunity.

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 10, 2010 4:10 PM CST up reply actions  

The smoke route confounded them last year

I hope JG has some new tricks up his sleeve. I think Philly will score a bunch.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 4:12 PM CST up reply actions  

One of the reasons I'm looking to Choice, the clock

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 10, 2010 4:14 PM CST up reply actions  

+1

He can carry us with a big game…

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 4:16 PM CST up reply actions  

He always has, always stepped up to the chances he's had

And I just don’t get why people rag on him so much. Game 1 wasn’t on him, the guy was reacting naturally to try and make something happen on a play that either shouldn’t have been called or executed in chaos by Romo. It’s cost us this year, big time, him paying a price for that BS. He’ll come through, help again, if not carry a sizeable load on his play, you watch.

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 10, 2010 4:24 PM CST up reply actions  

On the other hand.

That’s just that much less mileage on him when his number is called early and often next season in meaningful games.

by MadMick on Dec 10, 2010 4:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Some truth in that...

but he’s got a big, I’d say huge, game much much sooner.

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 10, 2010 4:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Time to see if we can actually let Barber go or not...

and we need to see what Choice has.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 4:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Are you saying...

If the season was over now, no game Sunday, that you wouldn’t feel secure going into next season with Felix/Choice?

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 10, 2010 4:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Purely from the standpoint of blitz pickup

YES.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 5:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Granted Barber's the blocker out of the 3

But I think, despite certain recent events that I’ll leave unsaid, we’ve other options to deal with that. Witten, Bennett, Phillips getting back next year, Gronk, with what I see in even Felix/Choice, I feel better than you obviously.

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 10, 2010 5:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Utilizing Felix or Choice properly more often as outlets.

Would also help out a great deal in that area, too; no?

Besides, Gronko(one of those precious h-back/TE hybrids) was the pallie that got Romo’s block knocked off.

by MadMick on Dec 10, 2010 5:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Possibly

But in 3rd and long, you need patterns that get downfield and you’ll need the back to stay in and chip.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 5:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Miller time?

Stay out of 3rd and long with decent playcalling on 1st and 2nd down?

by MadMick on Dec 10, 2010 6:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Run when they think pass and pass when they think run

Just don’t get predictable.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 6:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Hey, I know a team or 3 looking for a sharp cookie coach

Since it’s so freakin’ easy to do, maybe you two should apply. ;

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 10, 2010 7:15 PM CST up reply actions  

C729 would be Mike Martz on steroids

70 passes per game would be considered a clock killing strategy….

:-)

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 8:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Need a Steve Austin QB, though

   ;
6mil/yr for that kind of production should be a deal, huh?

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 11, 2010 8:41 AM CST up reply actions  

Even Manning will break down if they don't find him a running game

I could see Indy targeting Mark Ingram in round 1 next year.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 11, 2010 12:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Bet it was blink of an eye thought chain

I refer to bionic QB, you think Peyton, what do they need, up pops Ingram’s name one year hence. Yeah, they def have him on the radar screen I’d wager.

Going to be fun watching the Cap One.
Hell, they’re all fun. ’Tis the season.

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 11, 2010 3:31 PM CST up reply actions  

That's the thing I left unsaid

For a reason. One play, in a rookie season or any other, doesn’t/shouldn’t make a career. The guy looked good pre-season, in what game-time he was getting up to that point, people were high on him. One blown assignment, it changes, everybody starts trashing the guy. It’s pure BS. Sure it cost us Romo’s injury, but it’s not like we were winning and then went into the dumpster, now is it?

This kid looked good and shouldn’t be taking BS heat for one freaking play. I wonder how many will own up and eat crow down the line when he’s opening some holes for us, catching a few, doing what he showed before that game?

Not many, because people, esp. Cowboy fans are fickle. Fickle and forgetful, when it suits them. Not all, but we sure do have a sh!tload of fickle fans.

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 10, 2010 6:28 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm wondering if "the clock" is really going to make a whole lot of difference?

I would think so, but….three out of the four teams that beat Philly this year, did so WITHOUT leading in time of possession.

WAS – 27:03
TEN – 26:36
CHI – 28:02

vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

by BishopWest on Dec 10, 2010 5:19 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd say this...

Washington was quite an anomaly and Kolb was the QB. It’s a different offense now (as evidenced by the second meeting), wouldn’t you say? Torrain led all rushers with 70 yards.

The Titans game was interesting in that the Eagles led 19-10 early in the 4th on a Akers FG, but on the following play, Kenny Britt hauled in an 80-yarder (which took all of 13 seconds!), Philly then did nothing on offense, the Titans got a 38-yard FG from Bironas, the Iggles did squat on offense again and Britt caught a 16-yarder from Collins. Bironas added a 33-yarder and the game ended on a pick 6 by Kolb to Finnegan. All told, the Titans scored 10 points in 3 full quarters and 2 minutes into the 4th. Then, they erupted for 27 points in 13 minutes of game time. Leading rusher was CJ2K with 66 yards.

In the Chicago game, I think it boils down to this; The Bears scored 4 TD’s and one FG. The Eagirls scored 2 TD’s and 4 FG’s (45, 36, 22, 36). They lost by 5. The moral of that story is you can’t trade FG’s for TD’s. Forte had 117 yards rushing.

So, I still think you gotta run on Philly to beat them, as evidenced by these examples.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 6:48 PM CST up reply actions  

But take everything in context...

Not taking away from Blings’ needing to run the ball effectively against the Eagles or your TOP fact, but I think the D’s were the primary difference-makers in those games (WSH 1st game, TEN, CHI). They made Philly work for yardage and simply took advantage of the Eagles methodical march-down-the-field strategy. More plays, more opportunities for TO’s, the clock gets eaten but TOP alone doesn’t tell the whole story (nothing does by itself, nothing in this game, that’s what makes it interesting and debatable). Even fumbles not recovered bust the play and eat the clock, but TOP stays in fumbler’s margin. The big thing was, esp. in the Bears game, the D forced Philly to more of the short game and came at Vick to get him throwing on the move. Likewise Wash, even Tenn to some extent.

While as BW says the TOP was in Philly’s favor, the difference was (in PHI’s favor):
WSH 5:54
TEN 6:24
CHI 3:56
Take it in context of the game. Philly’s playing march-down-the-field short-yardage. Skins game, Wash did a decent job of containing everything but McCoy (even though he only had 69yds rushing he accounted for almost half the recs and yds/rec). In Titans game, Britt’s monster game (7/225/3TD) was the difference. Bears game it was the D coupled with Cutler and the O going toe-to-toe.

Common thread was the way their D’s played to force Philly to their short-yardage, march-down-the-field gameplan and everything that can bring about.

So, I see D’s the key. Keep them in their short-yardage game, take advantage of it. Play deep cover. Keep it underneath and in front. We need CB/S’s to come on big handling the always dangerous deep threat. I know it’s asking a lot from our guys they way they’ve played much of the time, but it can be done. Get some pressure on Vick, get him moving and throwing without leaving him running gaps. We don’t need the sacks, it’s the pressure, hits and get him moving without leaving him room to run. Sacks are always nice, but not necessary. Make damn sure McCoy’s covered and swarmed, run D’s a given. Their redzone O’s not that great and with shorter field if we’re playing tight and in that comfort zone about the short-game, we can stop the TD’s and force FG’s (hopefully neither, a big fat 0 on their side would be really really nice).

Offensively, run, eat the clock with an old-fashioned ball-possession, low-scoring mindset to our gameplan, unless it turns into a big-play shoot-out, obviously. We could find Felix/Choice get a break and open it up a bit possibly a few times to boot. Keep it close is all we ask from the O, answer point for point plus 1. I could care less if we win by 100 or 1. All you need is 1 to win.

If it goes against our gameplan, whatever it turns out to be, you adjust. That’s the biggest gripe I’ve had about us for 2-3 years now and still a question I have about Garrett and the whole coaching staff. We never seemed to adjust our gameplan to circumstances of the game in progress. Maybe that’ll change, even with just the 1-head-not-2 running the show situation we’re now in (finally). It remains to be seen, in my eyes, but that’s a big thing I’m watching for in the long-term. Do we adjust accordingly to game-time circumstances.

Everything in context. TOP, stats, all of it. It’s a team game and we need the team to play, not the individuals. That’s the way to win this game. And the next.

Only my BS take on it and what do I know, I’m a Cowboys fan.

Sorry for the long post, guys. This page takes like 5 minutes to load now on my POS low-RAM machine and I can only get 1-2 posts (long or short) in if I’m lucky before it seizes up on me. Probably won’t be able to load it after this (good, eh? ;), so I hope you all enjoy the game and we have a good one, a win. Go Cowboys!

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 11, 2010 8:19 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't think we can win a shootout with most teams who have a good deep passing game

I think we can contain some dink and dunk teams if we get a pick/fumble or two.

So, running the ball and using play action over the top seems our best bet.

But Jason is aggressive and so is Andy.

There could be fireworks.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 11, 2010 12:20 PM CST up reply actions  

I hope there's no fireworks

You’re right, they’re both aggressive. I’d like our chance more with Dez in there in that case, but things as they are, I stand by my gameplan above. Your first point is why I said we have to keep them in their walk-it-down gameplan. With you on point 2. The aggressive fireworks, please no.

But if it’s fireworks and we win, I’ll try and find a way to live with it. ;)

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 11, 2010 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Could also be a game to give you more to consider re: Witten

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 11, 2010 3:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Thank chr!st Campo isn't out there on the field...

does enough damage on the sidelines. Nothing against the man, I’m just not a fan, never have been. Anybody got a take on what his relationship with Garrett is (just in case we find him as HC next year)?

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 10, 2010 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

that's why it's we have to get our running game going..........

see how just a little running game helped out Indy last night? Even though they didn’t have much, it helped Peyton out just enough against the Titans. After watching that game, I keep wondering how in the heck the Titans beat us.

by texstar on Dec 10, 2010 4:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Two different Titans teams

They’re sure stunk it up too this year. Early on they looked not bad, but since then, phew. Surprised me them getting close there in the 2nd half though.

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 10, 2010 4:28 PM CST up reply actions  

you realize G_SWAG and FiTaT will soon be here to ream you for that comment, don't you?

:-)

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 4:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Plain as day

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 6:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Possible...

With the trifecta hanging on them and if GB wins earlier and we don’t bring our A-game because of it, this could get ugly. Be nice to have Dez around. I’m just hoping the Lions come through and we go in, play a team A-game and lay the 1st on them. Willing to bet Garrett’s been drilling it into them to forget the 3 passed and focus on the 1 in front of them.

That’s a pile of weapons they have on O and if it’s not a complete D playing out there against it, Reid’ll make you pay. As much as McNabb concerned me with the deep ball and his difficulty to be brought down, Vick’s settled down and matured into something more dangerous. Even with Celek being less of a concern this year they’ve still got so much to work with and Vick’s doing it, using them.

If Ware can get some pressure, roll him right and Spencer comes out of hiding a bit, we might just get some opportunites inside with a hurried throw or two. Other than that, I want to see another solid game out of Choice (side benefit, it’ll shut some of his detractors up) and a whole team step-up effort again. It doesn’t need to be pretty, it just needs to be done. Think about what a W here’d do for these guys in terms of morale, confidence, more buy-in to the way things are going, the whole thing.

It’s a huge game on the big stage and despite the season I’m pretty sure, in addition to the prep work, this bunch would love to show they’re to be reckoned with, not the demoralized inept nimrods they looked like in GB, not the guys who lost a close one on T-day or squeaked one out against a hurting Colts team. That they’re still up for a grudge match against an NFC East foe acknowledged as being one of the better teams this year.

The consequences of this game, good or bad, may well reach beyond this season. Huge game.

Get a W, ‘Boys. Shut everybody up and make them talk all at once about what’s going on here in Big D. On the good side, for a change.

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 10, 2010 4:03 PM CST up reply actions  

An interesting draft article on Raf's site.

http://www.cowboysnation.com/2010/12/wes-bunting-picks-cowboys-groceries-mid.html

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Dec 10, 2010 9:37 AM CST reply actions  

Bunting is a strange cat

I find the interviews a bit difficult to stay with.

I wonder how many people really think Dallas would go with an O-lineman in the 1st if guys like Sherrod and Castonzo are both there with Mark Ingram, the 2 other QB’s not named Luck and maybe even Da’Quan Bowers.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 4:54 PM CST up reply actions  

By people do you mean?

The same lot of experts who thought Campbell’s potential would see him taken in the 1st round?They were only three measly rounds off. Who cares what they think? Dude who fought The Evil Dead was just as likely a 1st round draft pick for the Cowboys last year.

Running back in the 1st? Bad form. More of the shiny toy mentality. Besides you can get sick running backs in the middle rounds easily if you guess right. Hey if the Cowboys didn’t have major patchwork to do with the O-line or all along the core of the defense I wouldn’t mind the luxury. I don’t think Skeletor should approach drafting thinking he has the luxury of picking BPA.

As for Bowers, doesn’t he project to OLB in the 3-4? If Spencer can’t live up to his billing, I’d rather give Butler a shot than draft another designated pass rusher type cat.

But doing something unfathomable like drafting 2 linemen in the first three rounds is probably way too practical for Skeletor.

Here’s the deal.
Fixing the O-line: a must.
Finding a hellraiser on the D-Line or a legit safety: an urgent matter.

Backs and designated pass rushers? I have a little more faith in guys like Choice and Butler to step up at those positions. Bowers is intriguing but they’ve punched that OLB wall enough.

OT in the first or second round is a must. But short of Fairley or Jordan being there, I’d go ahead and get the best one available in the first round. The wait and see approach with the OL has yielded Jerry too many blubbery non-entities recently. The downside is to get two quality OL in the first three rounds, a solid DE or S is going to get passed over. Well, you can’t try to fill all your needs in one draft.

by MadMick on Dec 10, 2010 6:03 PM CST up reply actions  

The point being that Jerry likes the big bang

Mark Ingram has big bang (especially if Barber goes bye bye).

Sherrod doesn’t have big bang.

I’m just calling Jerry like I see Jerry.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 6:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Skeletor and his ways are a whole other topic.

But yeah, I agree it will have to be seen to be believed that he’d take a tackle in the first round. I was hoping maybe the big bang that Romo felt against the turf might broaden his horizons.

But if Skeletor does have such notions dancing around inside his haunted head the back-by-committee crap should be ditched immediately and also the mandate that sexy thang Tony Romo needs to attempt 38 passes every damn game before any running back gets 12 carries should be put to rest as well.

by MadMick on Dec 10, 2010 7:00 PM CST up reply actions  

And he has a history of passing on a Bulaga for a Dez

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 6:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Indisputable.

Like I said though hopefully the power structure isn’t so flawed that Skeletor would dare draft a total package feature back only to waste him on an offense that gives more of a crap about getting off their fancy little 35 passes a game before even considering the run as an option.

by MadMick on Dec 10, 2010 7:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I still think that DE and O-line have to be addressed partially in FA

for this team to have a chance to get their fingers in all the holes where water is pouring in. Mankins should be priority number one to fix our RG spot and I would really like to also go after Cullen Jenkins for a DE fix. If you get those two guys, you can go OT in the first round, FS in the second, and then from there on go BPA.

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 10, 2010 8:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep

Mankins would seem the likely target, right?

But what if he gets tagged? Nicks? someone else?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 10, 2010 8:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Definitely Nicks.

In fact, rethinking it, I might rather have Nicks as opposed to Mankins considering he is younger. Regardless, if I am Jerry I would be determined to walk away with one of them even if I have to pay top dollar again. The way I see it, that new guard would simply be filling Leonard Davis’s slot on the field and in the salary cap.

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Dec 11, 2010 5:11 AM CST up reply actions  

I like the Nicks idea

never thought about it much beyond Mankins. All this rebuilding is too far in the future for me to be thinking about, but thanks for the gem of a thought.
Either or, but there’s a lot of merit to Nicks now that you mention it.

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 11, 2010 8:48 AM CST up reply actions  

That makes sense to me...

Is there a Right Tackle out there worth looking at too?

A center?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 11, 2010 12:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Off topic a bit because it's not a FA player

Wisniewski, Penn’s C/G, played both but mostly G this year I think. Very interested in where he goes in the draft, selection and team. Moved up, more now with All-American. Would have loved a shot at him when he was projected 2nd rounder.

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 11, 2010 3:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Is his dad the ex-Raider?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 11, 2010 7:03 PM CST up reply actions  

His father Leo Wisniewski played three seasons for the Colts.

His UNCLE Steve Wisniewski was an eight-time Pro Bowler for the Raiders

vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

by BishopWest on Dec 11, 2010 7:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Seems like a solid bloodline

…but then you have the whole Rob Carpenter – Bobby Carpenter thing. So maybe not.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 11, 2010 11:47 PM CST up reply actions  

true

vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

by BishopWest on Dec 12, 2010 12:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Wo was initially drafted by the Cowboys

and then traded to the Raiders on draft day for additional picks. The one that got away.

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 12, 2010 5:24 AM CST up reply actions  

I remember that!

Who did they end up getting with those picks?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Dec 12, 2010 10:10 AM CST up reply actions  

Mooooooose!

I wrote about that a while back:

But then there is also the cautionary tale of also Guard Steve Wisniewski, 8-time Pro Bowler and 2-time All Pro for the Raiders, and the one that got away .

The Cowboys drafted Wisniewski with the first pick of the 2nd round in 1989 (#29, CAV: 90), and immediately traded his rights and the 1989 sixth round pick (#140-Jeff Francis, CAV: 0) to the Raiders for a 1989 second round pick (#39-Daryl Johnston, CAV: 25), a 1989 third round pick (#68-Rhondy Weston, CAV: 2) and a 1989 fifth round pick (#119-Willis Crockett, CAV: 0).

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 12, 2010 10:39 AM CST up reply actions  

For me, that's a wash

But then, I think very highly of Moose. Very. I’m biased.
It is what it was. No going back.
Either way, it would’ve worked most likely.

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 12, 2010 5:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh yeah, Thank you, Detroit Lions!

Go Cowboys!

Pride, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Gluttony, Wrath, Sloth.
5 outta 7 ain't bad. Working on the other 2.

by tanstaafl on Dec 12, 2010 5:46 PM CST up reply actions  

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