Cowboys Draft '10, Part One: Looking for Elvin...or Bruce...or Phil
This is the first in a series of pieces on the Cowboys' preparations for the 2010 NFL Draft. They will target the draft prep market and demonstrate how the team actually prepares, and how knowing the team's mode of thinking can help you zero in on those prospects most likely to interest the Dallas brass.
Scan the Cowboys' defensive roster and look for holes. You won't find many. The team finished 2nd in scoring defense this year and has an abundance of youth. Only two starters have seen their 30th birthday.
If you go unit by unit, there is a balance of talent. The Cowboys have two outside linebackers with complete games, who can harass quarterbacks. On the line, Dallas has Jay Ratliff, a rare rush nose tackle. If there is an area where the team can improve on the front seven, look at defensive end.
Dallas has two big, run stuffing ends in Igor Olshanky and Marcus Spears. Olshansky provided an upgrade over the departed Chris Canty, in that he was stronger and more consistent against the run. Spears turned in another improved year at left end,
That said, neither offers any pass-rushing flash. Spears had a career high 2.5 this year and has just 8.0 in his five years as a Cowboy.
Wade Phillips has had pass-rushing ends at almost every stop on his coaching career. At Houston, he had the Hall of Famer Elvin Bethea. At Denver, Ron Holmes notched 9 sacks in the Super Bowl year of '89. Wade coached the all-timer Bruce Smith at Buffalo. From '95 through '98 Smith and fellow end Phil Hansen combined for 18.0 or more sacks each year; in '95, both of them reached double digits.
Imagine the pass rushing firepower the Cowboys could muster if Ratliff had another line partner who excelled at sacking quarterbacks. Situational rusher Stephen Bowen teases, but he has just 4.0 sacks in his four-year career. Right now, the Cowboys have no DE with the rushing skills of even a Phil Hansen, who had 39.5 sacks in his six years as Phillips' LDE. (Compare Hansen's production to Spears' for evidence that the rush can still get much better.)
Phillips likes to rush five, though this year, with Anthony Spencer emerging, he had the talent to pressure quarterbacks with just four men. Even so, when Dallas rushes their line and one of the Spencer-Demarcus Ware duo, only the OLB and Ratliff qualify as persistent rush threats.
If the Cowboys can find a rush end, their 3-4 scheme presents offenses with the problem of negating four exceptional rushers after first identifying which four are pursuing their quarterback.
Big ends like Jarron Gilbert were players of interest for the Cowboys in the early rounds last April. Don't be at all surprised if the position remains high on Dallas' wish list this year.
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Jared Odrick from Penn State fits that bill nicely
Although I’m no PSU fan, I’ve seen this kid play and he is definitely the real deal. I certainly wouldn’t mind hearing his name called as the newest Cowboy on the first ever Thursday night draft night.
Reminds a lot of Rat.
In Romo we Trust
He looks like a good fit at 3-4 End
Might be the highest value player left when Dallas is on the clock in the 1st rd.
Another guy that stood out at the Senior Bowl was Alex Carrington 6’5 285 lbs from Arkansas State.
He could go in the 2nd or 3rd rd.
Drago says, "We must break you!"
by APerfectStar on Feb 10, 2010 4:34 PM CST up reply actions
I like Odrick too Terry,
He has the size and strength for 3-4 DE but he’s also got good quickness and importantly he’s referenced as "active with a non-stop motor". Indeed that does remind of the Rat.
I think Spears, Hatcher and Bowen are all RFA
Exceptional rush DE might become more than a good fit to an absolute need. There’s plenty of big bodies in this class.
Carlos Dunlap – first round
Jared Odrick – late first round
Corey Wootton – after the first round
Alex Carrington
Tyson Aluala
Arthur Jones – bum knee
Greg Hardy
Austen Lane
Or a NT to move the Rat out
Dan Williams, strong run stuffer, first round
Brian Price, quick stout and penetrates, first round
Terrance Cody, huge run stuffing pig – maybe 2nd round
What's this gratuitous nonsense:
Although I’m no PSU fan
; )
"Confidence doesn't come out of nowhere. It's a result of something... hours and days and weeks and years of constant work and dedication." --Roger Staubach
Pitt alumni and fan means I hate Penn State
It’s like Cowboys fans hating the Skins
In Romo we Trust
Hardly
The rivalry’s been dead for years. I am a case in point. PSU alumn who also roots for Pitt. Probably showing your age a little here Terry.
by Dave Chappelle Jr. AKA Felix Jones on Feb 12, 2010 10:37 AM CST up reply actions
of course I am...old school all the way
Although many of my younger friends who are Pitt alumni also hate Penn State as well.
It definitely lives within the heart all Pitt fans for sure, not as much with PSU alumni.
In Romo we Trust
I hope there is a o-lineman worth a 1st
when Dallas is up. You’re right about the D, not many holes. Maybe they can find DE in the 3rd or 4th round, but I think the O-line needs help the most, but don’t reach, take the best on your board.
interesting food for thought as always
I doubt that a DE drafted would supply a pass rush out of the box. If we’re looking to improve this specific spot, would a trade be more likely?
Given the uncertainty of 2011, the future of Dallas’s DE position may be on another team, via trade or FA trickery. Furthermore, given the uncertainty of 2011, I’d think the advantages of youth would be diminished for the immediate gratification of next season.
Some dream players to play that spot include Vince Worfolk and Julius Peppers. It also makes me wonder if Dallas should of kept Ellis at DE for Wade Phillips
Peppers would be an OLB, not a DE
But Seymour is available… and I want Wilfork and have Rat move to DE.. cuz a line w/ Wilfork, Rat, Olshansky/Spears is better than one w/ Rat, Olshansky, Spears
by nicholas.rodriguez on Feb 10, 2010 4:38 PM CST up reply actions
Peppers says he wants to be an OLB
but he’s 300lbs, big enough for a 3-4 DE, which is why I say that
by AustonianAggie on Feb 10, 2010 4:40 PM CST up reply actions
He's Listed
At 283 pounds, which would be light for a 3-4 DE. He’s also 30 years old.
I like Raf’s perspective. If we can find a play-making defensive end (or safety for that matter) that’s a great value in the first round, we should take him.
he would be a 34 de
He is probably somwhere in the middle of that 283-300 lbs, and could bulk up a little. That would be a dream scenario, and at 30 years of age, he is still young.
by TONYINCC on Feb 10, 2010 6:06 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
At 30 years old Peppers is not going to bulk up and go in the trenches.
The big money is at OLB in the 3-4 and DE in the 4-3. Pass rusher is also more of a glamore position. We arent going to pay Ware money to a DE in this scheme.
Ask yourself this, would you take less money, less glamore, move inside to muck it up, and shorten your career. Peppers isnt coming here for that any more than SD trade a top corner for a dime a dozen RB. More Bong talk.
KICK ASS every day!!!
would be happy w this
Also,
Put spencer and igor on the same side, and let ware and rat collapse the weakside.
I would prefer to have igor out on the strong side cause of his run stopping abilities, and to have ware and rat on one side I believe creates more matchup problems.
Raf, is there a couple DEs on your radar right now. I don’t think you are ready to start making your actual predictions, but can you just point us in the right direction?
by TONYINCC on Feb 10, 2010 6:17 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
NT Prospects?
Is their any worthy 3-4 NT prospects coming out that could allow Ratliff to move over to DE?
Jay is a little undersized for his position anyhow. Right?
everyone is going
To get mad at you for suggesting this, why do you create 2 problems blah blah blah, he was a menace at de too, and I would not be opposed to having another giant run stuffer like wilfork come here. See what fat pat did to us? I know its a different front, but damn you put that guy one on one, and you will make the pocket collapse for sure.
Dream line**** keep in mind I say DREAM
Spencer
Peppers
Wilfork
Rat
Ware
We would/should easily eclipse 60 sacks w those guys, and be extremely stout against the run.
by TONYINCC on Feb 10, 2010 6:11 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
on this front
I am wondering if peppers would take less money to go to a contender? He just made 16 mil for one season. He did mention something about wanting to play in dal, I wonder if he would put his money where his mouth is and take less to play inside at 34 DE.
He would have to take a huge paycut to be here, considering our free agency restrictions.
by TONYINCC on Feb 10, 2010 6:20 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
This draft has a number of NT prospects, but I'd draft for a backup,
not to replace Ratliff. An anchor NT (6’5 322lbs) I like who may be available in the mid/late rounds is Kade Weston out of Georgia.
"Everybody wants something but nobody wants to pay the price" - Michael Irvin
He's the best NT in the game right now
why do you want to fix something that’s not broken?
by Rafael Vela on Feb 10, 2010 6:39 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rafael we are far from set at NT as you claim...
We are one injury away from disaster….we have better depth at DE than NT at this point. Bowen, Hatcher are good and some think if Spears departs Bowen would be his replacement. Getting a quality NT to backup Rat would allow Wade to move him more. Its only a matter of time before Ratliff slows down and becomes less effective. I wouldnt mind a young stud to learn behind him for a couple of years.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
I'm very much in favor of getting a NT for depth
I don’t think much of Junior Siavii, though he performed much better than I expected.
But I’m tired of the knee-jerk argument to move Ratliff to DE. He’s been the best every down NT in football the last two years. He belongs where he is.
by Rafael Vela on Feb 10, 2010 10:51 PM CST up reply actions
+2
RW is the opposite of WR. Coincidence? I think not.
by aussie_cowboy on Feb 11, 2010 7:41 AM CST up reply actions
Amen brother.
With age creeping up up at OL, ILB, and DE people are constantly trying to fix something that isnt broken. To quote Ed Harris’s character in Apollo 13, “Lets work the problem people.”
KICK ASS every day!!!
+4
"The Most Dangerous Man in the world is the one with nothing to lose"
by SaratogaRacing on Feb 11, 2010 9:15 AM CST up reply actions
IMO, I think Ratliff would make a better DE, but I know they wont move him...
He is getting older so at some point moving him to DE could happen, but I agree its not going to happen now. Playing NT, especially a undersized NT is a brutal postion and alot of wear and tear on th body. Weve been lucky so far, but we need a NT that can start if he is injured.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Thank.
You.
Maybe if people won’t listen to Cowboys brass about it, they’ll at least listen to you?
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Feb 10, 2010 9:20 PM CST up reply actions
RDE is broken
we are not doing it to fix NT we are doing it to fix RDE, and then sign someone like Wilfork to be NT.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Exactly
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 10, 2010 10:12 PM CST up reply actions
Playing with monopoly money again, quincyyyy?
Last year you were banging the drum for Haynesworth.
Now, it’s WIlfork AND Brandon Marshall.
This is a very rich DE draft. Find a good one, plug him at LDE (Olshansky is just fine at RDE) and off you go.
by Rafael Vela on Feb 10, 2010 10:53 PM CST up reply actions
if not Wilfork then Brandon Marshall. Not both (mainly because that would be impossible)
And I don’t trust rookies. I think maybe it was Tom Landry who said it takes about 3 years for a d-lineman to develop. We want to win now.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Think outside the box man!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 11, 2010 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, Wilfork will obviously give us a deep threat on offense!
"Everybody wants something but nobody wants to pay the price" - Michael Irvin
I like Torrell Troup from UCF
6’3 312lbs, 3 yr starter on a team that ranked 4th in the nation in rush defense this year.
Drago says, "We must break you!"
by APerfectStar on Feb 10, 2010 6:57 PM CST up reply actions
as a backup to Rat
Drago says, "We must break you!"
by APerfectStar on Feb 10, 2010 6:57 PM CST up reply actions
He is, but is doing the job as of right now..but what about when father time catches up to him?
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
You make that point about backup NT
to justify your Mnt Cody poster.
Agreed
RW is the opposite of WR. Coincidence? I think not.
by aussie_cowboy on Feb 11, 2010 7:41 AM CST up reply actions
Im backing off Cody after the Senior Bowl showing....
we still need a good backup. I dont know how anyone can disagree with that.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Nobody is disagreeing with that. But backups are draft on day 2 er 3, uh or is it day 4 now.
How many days is the draft now. Does it go to Sunday?
KICK ASS every day!!!
I would still take a chance on him late 2nd round or early 3rd
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Rafael, wouldn’t you say that adding some beef in short yardage and Red Zone couldn’t be very productive in tight games? There well could be quite a few ‘squeekers’ this upcoming year. Turning things over on third down might be a good way to go.
There is no right way to do the wrong thing. GO COWBOYS!!
Odrick, Vince Oghabaase, and E.J. Wilson would be great gets
E.J. Wilson especially has a lot of pass rush potential
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
I like Odrick, but Oghabaase and EJ Wilson both look to me
like they lack the quickness to make them good rushing DE’s.
I think Odrick would be a good fit for us, but I think we’d have to use a 1st for him and I’m really hoping we find an OLineman at that spot.
"Everybody wants something but nobody wants to pay the price" - Michael Irvin
I agree, Carrington really looked good against the competition
at the Senior bowl.
"Everybody wants something but nobody wants to pay the price" - Michael Irvin
i was thinking more middle lb namely brady james and b carpenter
The defense could use an upgrade over those two, or are least someone to push them
by just4fun on Feb 10, 2010 8:46 PM CST via mobile reply actions
To me...
DE seems easier position to fill via FA than OT or FS, in general (as far as time to get used to the Cowboys system), but also specifically regarding who’s available this year. There’s not a whole lot out there at OT or S who could come in and be a huge upgrade over what we have already. It seems like you need to go the draft route, where it might take the player 0.5-1.5 years to develop, but you end up with a superior player (see Jenkins, Mike or Spencer, Anthony).
There’s some guys out there who could come in and be better than Spears. You could then spend a later round pick (and/or keep Bowen and other backups around) to eventually replace the player who is likely to be older. It makes sense to use the one big FA singing they have on this spot compared to other weaknesses (not a lot of holes) on the roster. Then hope for a high upside guy who might just need a little development time to fall in the draft. You may not even have to use the big signing as 3-4 DE’s don’t make as much money as their 4-3 DE counterparts.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
If not for the current status of CBA Spears would be a FA, not a RFA and not on this team..
I seriously doubt they would pay him the money to stay based on his production the last 4 years. Bowen is more than capable and has more pass rushing abilities than Spears. Finding a 3-4 DE in the draft is pretty good. This year there seems to be alot of 3-4 DE prospects.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
again
in the wade system the DE is positioned to occupy the offensive player in his zone
not rush. Everyone agrees Spears does a good job of this responsibility . Why does
Spears not get his respect for doing a good job? Again I dont get it.
Not so
Did you read the article? Raf pointed out several rushing DE’s in the Phillips 34. The scheme doesn’t mean that DE’s don’t rush. It is simply that we have had some DE’s who were poor pass rushers – Spears and Canty. I also disagree that spears does a good job. He did a good job holding the point last year. But before then, he would get blown off the ball several times per game.
by JimmyJohnson on Feb 10, 2010 10:02 PM CST up reply actions
that is the parcells system
In the “wade system” the de, the nt, the middle, and weakside lb everyone is assigned a gap. That why it is called a one gap system. If the de is good enough to penetrate the tfl and sacks will come.
by TONYINCC on Feb 10, 2010 10:11 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Don't get me wrong
Spears on the whole did an okay job. Going forward though, if this defense wants to be elite, then we are going to have to strive to get more than 2.5 sacks out of our starting RDE. I still think the easiest way is to have Dallas get a legit NT to move Rat to RDE. I know many disagree, and that is fair enough, but can you imagine getting a guy like Wilfork to eat up the middle and put Ratliff next to him. Factor in Ware and Spencer and you have a legitimate front seven that will be more talented than any O-line it will see.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 10, 2010 10:16 PM CST up reply actions
Okay, here it is again
what makes all you Ratliff to DE folks CERTAIN that he’ll be better outside?
He’s not a speed guy. He’s a strength and technique guy. He’ll be lined up on OTs, who are 20-30 bigger than Cs and better athletes.
You could make two positions worse doing this.
by Rafael Vela on Feb 10, 2010 10:58 PM CST up reply actions
if he is taking on tackles
In passing situations then who is blocking the olb, and if you are running your base defense you have 5 on 5 or 6 depending on the te and ratliff would be less likely to be double teamed. He more than likely would be one on one w a guard. In running situations rat is always double teamed, and I stand to think he would be better than spears and igor in that situation also. I think the closest we will get to bruce smith is rat. If you put a giant guy who demands 2 blockers up the middle, the offense is doomed from the start. I understand what you are saying, but he did start out there after all and who is to say that he would not have been even more productive as he developed at de?
The next argument is that he is a proven NT, well so is wilfork, and more suitable for that particular positions. That said you don’t just replace him w someone bigger, you replace w someone bigger and PROVEN.
by TONYINCC on Feb 10, 2010 11:19 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
"well so is wilfork, and more suitable for that particular"
Ratliff plays the run better than Wilfork,
He’s so much better as a rusher than Wilfork as a rusher it’s sick.
Jay Ratliff, in ’05 and ’06, or ’07, could not get ahead of Kenyon Coleman or Jason Hatcher at DE in camp.
I don’t see any evidence that he’s gonna be Richard Seymour’s clone out there.
Hey, again, I asked Ratliff directly and Todd Grantham if they saw his future as a DE. Grantham was very political and said, “it’s just an experiment.” Ratliff, looked shocked, like I knew something he didn’t and said, “the coaches told me they were just going to try it out…”
Nobody voiced any confidence or made any predictions about his future there.
But you guys know more than Ratliff himself and his position coach.
by Rafael Vela on Feb 11, 2010 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
+1
I’m not saying that he can or can’t, but I think it’s a ridiculous assumption that he can.
I had a massive argument with someone a year ago, when the rumor about moving Spears in and moving Ratliff to end was the big solution.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 11, 2010 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
precisely why i dont like
Disagreeing with you.
You bring up personal stuff that I have nothing to counter.
On that note, because he couldn’t get on the field back that does not mean the same result will happen now. I firmly believe he has developed as a dlineman not specific to NT.
You look for certain attributes in a player to fit certain positions. I think that is why many of us think that Rat fits the de mold very well. I could be wrong, but I would like to be proved wrong by his play on the field, or lack there of at the de positions. Again, this is solely based on getting another premier NT.
Also, from your argument you think highly of seymour. Do you think he would be a good fit here, and is it feasible.
by TONYINCC on Feb 11, 2010 1:29 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I also think Ratliff being such a beast on the inside it has allowed our ILBs to have more sacks
than any of those others ILB on any other 3-4 team in any given year. Betcha Pitt or N.E with Wilfork has ever had their ILB produse mores sacks.
KICK ASS every day!!!
Well personally
I think his combination of size, speed, and strength translates quite well to the position. He clearly has the physical tools necessary to be great at that position and I don’t see any reason to think his work ethic would suddenly fail him as far as getting up to speed at the position. And once he got settled in, I have little doubt that he would make life easier on the OLB on his end since the tackle would have two great players to really worry about. Like I said, his move would have to be predicated on finding a very good 3-4 NT, but I think it is certainly possible we could improve if we found the right guy.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 11, 2010 12:01 AM CST up reply actions
Often Times We Use More Than Three Down
So, in these cases, Rat would not necessarily be on the outside. Spencer could be used more as a run stopper, and the Rat is freed up to rush the passer. Many of the offensive tackles including the Saints’ left tackle and Flo – to take two examples, are vulnerable to a person of Rat’s ability. Technique and speed are the flip side of the same coin. Plus, the idea that Wilfork in the middle is a step down from Rat is arguable. Rat can and is often double teamed, at which time the middle is open at the LOS.
He started here as DE and Rat is pretty quick and athletic
Plus he would be lined up with Ware right next to him. More often than not the OT will be taking Ware, and if not they are lining up a TE on Ware, which would be even better.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Ratliff did not start as a DE here
I’ve seen every camp he’s been in. He started as a 4-3 DT and wore our Marco Rivera his rookie camp. That’s how he got recognized.
He’s probably the best interior rusher in football. He has 14 sacks the last two seasons. He’s the only DT/NT to make the top 40 in sacks each of the last two years.
Interior rushers are much, much harder to find than edge rushers. Dallas has the best. I see no evidence that moving him wide will change this.
I was there at Oxnard in ’08 when the team experimented with moving Ratliff to DE. I talked to Todd Grantham about it. I talked to Jay Ratliff about it. They both said it was an experiment.
You notice that Dallas hasn’t pursued this experiment. There was one game, I forget which one, where Ratliff played DE for one down.
If he was really all that, you think the team would give him some reps out there wouldn’t you? So why haven’t they?
Thank you BTB archive
From 2007 training camp
DE
Chris Canty and Marcus Spears will be the starters. Canty had an incredible camp and looks to one of the most improved players. He could be something special this year. Spears was very average at camp and didn’t make the leap up that Canty did. He will be pressed by Jason Hatcher, who was having a brilliant camp until he hurt his hamstring. The Cowboys have to find ways to get Hatcher on the field this season. Jay Ratliff also had a good camp. He is quick off the line with his first move and has a high motor. Defensive end looks pretty good right now.
After the first four, if they keep anybody after that, it would be Stephen Bowen, who moved between DE and NT at camp. He looked OK, but he’s clearly straddling the fault line. Marcus Smith had a few moments at camp, but there’s just no room for him.
http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2007/8/9/153320/1713
How many 3-4 DE’s get 7 sacks a year? Not many either.
The team hasn’t given him many reps at DE because we don’t have a legit NT besides him. Siavii is all right, but I wouldn’t want him taking that many reps during the game if we didn’t have to.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
You can cite second hand reports
I’ll cite my own eyes, quincyyyy
besides,
’05 was his rookie year, quincyyy,
Why are you citing ‘07? He was already Ferguson’s backup by then.
Go back and read your own words Raf
The x-factor is Marcus Spears, who is getting close to practicing. If he can hold the point at LE, Dallas suddenly has three prototype young DEs. And this does not take Jay Ratliff into account. He’s getting lots for work as a swing lineman as a DE in the 3-4 and lining up inside in the 4-3.
http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2005/08/20/seven-practices-later-and-what-do-i-know/
And he was an emergency NT going into the year. When Fergy got injured Rat was forced into the lineup as NT.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Yes, and he was making his mark blowing up Rivera inside in the 4-3
He played 3rd team that camp. Could not get ahead of the immortal Kenyon Coleman.
And then they moved him inside, and the guards could not handle him. And they were clearly so impressed with him as a DE that they drafted Jason Hatcher the next year. It wasn’t to replace Canty or Spears.
And they’ve left him inside every since. And you want to move him back to the place where he couldn’t crack 2nd team?
He was a 7th rounder in his rookie year
he probably wasn’t given much of a chance. Also Kenyon Coleman is starting for the Browns.
Anyhow, point is they saw his potential as a 3-4 DE, and that is probably where they saw him starting until Fergy got hurt. I believe Wade said something to the effect in ’07 that they saw Rat as an eventual starter, they just did not realize it would be NT until Fergy got hurt.
I think this offseason we should try to get Ware and Rat on the same side of the defense. The potential for mismatches is enormous.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
This is a DE rich draft
I don’ t think Cody is worth a 2nd round pick. And Wilford is good, but he’s too expensive for this team and what do you gain?
Wilfork has 7.5 sacks in his career. Six years. Ratliff got that many in ’08.
So Rat gets 8.0 outside. Your rush is no better than with Spears. Probably worse.
And Rat takes a back seat to no NT vs. the run. From SF ’09:
“… the king of the Cowboys mastiffs in ‘08 had to be Pro Bowl NT Jay Ratliff. To show just how good his numbers were, all one has to do is compare them with the totals posted by the Jets’ much more heralded Kris Jenkins. Jenkins certainly earned his trip to Hawaii with 25 POA [point of attack] wins in 115 POA runs, but that 21.7% success rate pales in comparison to Ratliff’s 31.6% win rate. Ratliff also had more defeated blocks (18 to 11) penetration wins (7 to 6) run block offensive penalties and one-on-one sacks. Jenkins won a second-team All Pro spot in large part because of his run-stuffing prowess but based on these numbers, Ratliff was equally deserving of that spot.”
I saw the Cowboys waste the first two years of Randy White’s career trying him at MLB. Too Tall Jones spent his rookie year at RE and Harvey Martin was at LE. They both struggled. The team then flopped them and the rest is history.
Look at the roster of great NTs. Curley Culp, Michael Carter, Tim Krumrie, Rubin Carter, Jamaal Williams, Casey Hampton, Jenkins.
Were any of them great rushers? Dallas has maybe the best rushing NT ever, one who can dominate vs. the run.
You don’t fix what ain’t broke.
by Rafael Vela on Feb 11, 2010 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
I don't want to fix NT I want to fix RDE
And I think Rat could be great as a DE as well and it would create mismatches for Ware. Plus Rat won’t have to worry about consistent double teams like he does at NT. 10+ sacks is not out of the question.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
You keep saying this
Spears plays DLE for one.
And LE isn’t broken, rushing wise.
So again, do the math.
Let’s take your argument at face value. Tell me how the team is better with:
Rat, 10;0 sacks and Wilfork 1.0 instead of
Rat 8.0 sack and Spears 2.5
You’re spending a ton more money and not getting any better production.
by Rafael Vela on Feb 11, 2010 10:33 AM CST up reply actions
Right my bad Spears plays LDE
Anyhow if we can get Rat on the same side as Ware or even Spencer the potential for mismatches for them also come into play.
Furthermore, lets look at the stats:
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl
At left end (from our perspective) we are sub par against the run and we are pretty so-so up the gut. Putting Wilfork in the middle of the defense and replacing Spears should fix that.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
And as for Rat's sacks
doesn’t most of them come in the Nickel defense anyhow? And he’ll still play inside on the nickel.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
and please explain now these mismatches would occur
you’re mischaracterizing how 3-4 rushes work.
by Rafael Vela on Feb 11, 2010 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
teams will have to double Wilfork
And if we are rushing 5 you are going to have to put a TE on either Spencer or Ware.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
double Wilfork on passing downs?
when his season best for sacks is 2.0?
Riiiiiight.
You still haven’t explained how Dallas signs WIlfork.
by Rafael Vela on Feb 11, 2010 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
Wilfork can collapse the pocket and drive his guy back
We can sign one FA over 5 mil. Wilfork would be that guy.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
anyhow he wouldn't even be in the game on passing downs
and like I said before, I could be wrong, but I believe Ratliff gets most of his sacks in the nickel.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
agreed on everything your saying quincy
Ive thought an upgrade at RDE has been needed for awhile. I dont expect his position to get alot of sacks but for years Spears has been a no-show in too many games. Just like a few positions on this team he hasnt done enough to think he is not replaceable.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
The team upgraded RE last year
they signed Igor Olshansky.
Spears plays LEFT end.
by Rafael Vela on Feb 11, 2010 10:40 AM CST up reply actions
You have a tendency......
….to always make the argument, that just because the Cowboys haven’t tried or something or that because a player remains on the bench, that the team is making the right decision.
Well you would hope that between all the position coaches...
and a defensive minded head coach, that they would have a pretty good feel for their players.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 11, 2010 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
Both bad comparisons...
One, the head coach isn’t an offensive coach.
Two, Austin had problems getting onto the field because he had problems staying healthy.
They had a good feeling about Austin before this season, that’s one of the reasons they felt comfortable letting Owens go, but he was hurt all of training camp.
The Miles Austin comparison is at least somewhat decent.
Doug Free?
Was he that much better than a healthy Columbo?
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 11, 2010 1:59 PM CST up reply actions
One more thing...
Your not talking about if a guy can play or not, your talking about something that is a totally different position.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 11, 2010 2:04 PM CST up reply actions
It had nothing to do with being healthy
Austin was perfectly healthy at the start of the season
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
No he wasn't.
He missed all of the voluntary workouts.
He wasn’t hurt in training camp, like I thought, but I remember that he had missed alot with some little tweak.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 11, 2010 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
You're right
He had some kind of strain or soreness in one of his legs.
Drago says, "We must break you!"
by APerfectStar on Feb 11, 2010 4:24 PM CST up reply actions
LOL those workouts mean nothing
he was full participation all throughout training camp and preseason, and Crayton remained the starter.
For some reason or another the coaching staff hates genuine competition for starting positions.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
They mean something...
when your talking about a guy getting chemistry with his QB when he missed alot of the 2008 season.
I throughly think Austin is one of those guys that really just has to get in the game.
He doesn’t practice really all that well, even the guys on DC.com were just like "Austin looks "ok"".
Aaron was at training camp and said Hurd was looking better than Austin.
Every account had Austin looking very unspectacular in training camp.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 11, 2010 6:09 PM CST up reply actions
Austin has played with Romo for 4 years.
He had chemistry with him going into the year.
And it was noticeable Austin had more big play potential, reports out of TC also said corner had to back up further off the line when covering him.
Moreover Colombo shouldn’t have been starting over Free in Philly and Minnesota, but since the coaches allow the current starters to become so entrenched they end up making bad decisions.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
I'll agree
About Free starting over Columbo at Minnesota, but Columbo did fine against Philly.
Also Austin has always had more big play potential, but he’s consistently been inconsistent in training camp, catching passes that are ridiculous but dropping the easy ones.
He looke REAL in sync with Romo in Denver.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 12, 2010 8:59 AM CST up reply actions
+1 again
"The Most Dangerous Man in the world is the one with nothing to lose"
by SaratogaRacing on Feb 11, 2010 9:17 AM CST up reply actions
disagree on him not being a speed guy....I think he is pretty fast and certainly quicker and faster than Spears
just the limited time he has been at DE you can see the speed he has off the edge or stunting to the inside…You put that much quickness at DE it would make Spencer even more dangerous.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
agreed Cowboyfan729...
the reason if not for him being a RFA he would be gone….still could be, who knows…Nick Eatman has an article up at DC.com saying there is a good chance out of Spears, Bowen and Hatcher one of them will not be here next year.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
as for safety
What about the oft injured bob sanders as we draft a safety to replace hamlin? I wouldn’t want to count on sanders, but odds are he will be cut.
by TONYINCC on Feb 10, 2010 11:34 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Wasn't Bruce Smith a 4-3 DE? I'm not sure. That would be a whole different ballgame than comparing him to our 3-4 DEs.
that would be better comparing him to Demarcus Ware and anthony Spencer rather than to Igor Olshansky or Marcus Spears.
I’m sure we could get a bit more push from our DEs into the pocket, but if they can hold up at the point of attack on running plays and occupy blockers on passing plays, I’m pretty much fine with their production. I would love to see 5-10 sacks combined out of the DE positions but its not my priority in a 3-4.
If we DID get a new DE that was a passrusher threat, I could see the whole scheme becoming much more difficult to protect against, though.
What I would really like is for our ILBs to become much more diverse and capable of rushing the passer, stopping the run, and dropping into coverage. This is the key to a 3-4. Your linebackers are supposed to provide a highly unpredictable element to the defense, as you should never know who’s coming and who’s dropping. Getting this would likely mean waiting on the development of Jason Williams over Keith Brooking and hopefully Bradie James can be a force at passrushing like he is at other parts of the job.
what was Reggie White with Philly?
Wade coached him, right? I think the Eagles ran a 4-3, though…
Reggie played LE and NT
when they went to a 46 front.
by Rafael Vela on Feb 11, 2010 10:37 AM CST up reply actions
Look around the NFL today
and tell me how many pass rush threats there are at DE. Outside of Seymour, I am blank. So getting a real pass rushing 3-4 that can also play the run well is a tall task.
The Steelers had one with Aaron Smith
He’s been hurt all year though.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 11, 2010 8:21 AM CST up reply actions
I would like better pass rushing skills at DE but not at the expense of being able to play the run.
If we can get an all around beast, go for it, but for our skill set I think our DEs being strong against the run should be the 1st consideration.
I know we didnt rack up as many sacks last year as 2 years ago but I think with Spencer maturing our D gets 7-10 more sacks without any changes. He should get 5 more and he should create a few for others.
KICK ASS every day!!!
A. Thomas when with Baltimore now with NE also....
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
He is...
he played DE when they would go to the Nickel.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 11, 2010 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
I didn't want to add to the ongoing string of posts above...
but I do think that it is a great assumption that Ratliff would dominate and demand double teams as an end.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 11, 2010 11:14 AM CST reply actions

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